Guild Wars 2

In the previous game, Guild Wars 1, Arena Net took strong action against manipulation of matches allowing for the players to benefit by working together. Here is a quote straight from the wiki;

“Red Resign was a form of match manipulation that commonly occured in Hero Battles on the days the Hero Battles Zaishen quest was offered. It was used to farm Zaishen Keys by repeatedly completing the Zaishen quest and turning it in. Often abbreviated “RR”, Red Resign relied on player cooperation.
Red Resign functioned by abusing the mechanics of the Hero Battles rating system. Due to the fact that the player with the higher rating in a given rated match enters the match as the Red Team, and that players lose rating on a lost, abandoned, or resigned match and gain rating on any victorious match, players’ ratings constantly fluctuated should they leave when they entered as the red team or won when they entered as the blue team.
Red Resign was officially considered cheating by ArenaNet. Participation in this form of match manipulation could have resulted in disciplinary action on a participant’s account.
Red Resign day was nerfed by removing Hero Battles from the game."

Now, I am not here to defend a specific server or punish another, but rather remind the players, and even Anet, that manipulation in WvW or PvP should be dealt with and resolved.

Nothing can be done about the current system, it’s as flawed as American congress at the moment.

Well, if you look at the last part of the post I quoted “Red Resign day was nerfed by removing Hero Battles from the game.”, clearly they did not have another solution. I hope that is not the case this time around.

Pierce.7801:

Well, if you look at the last part of the post I quoted “Red Resign day was nerfed by removing Hero Battles from the game.”, clearly they did not have another solution. I hope that is not the case this time around.

It’s not going to happen. Hero Battles in Guild Wars 1 were more akin to GW2’s PvP where the matches are structured and intended to be on a level playing field, not WvW where the matches are supposed to somewhat emulate the unfair nature of war.

Pierce.7801:

In the previous game, Guild Wars 1, Arena Net took strong action against manipulation of matches allowing for the players to benefit by working together. Here is a quote straight from the wiki;

“Red Resign was a form of match manipulation that commonly occured in Hero Battles on the days the Hero Battles Zaishen quest was offered. It was used to farm Zaishen Keys by repeatedly completing the Zaishen quest and turning it in. Often abbreviated “RR”, Red Resign relied on player cooperation.
Red Resign functioned by abusing the mechanics of the Hero Battles rating system. Due to the fact that the player with the higher rating in a given rated match enters the match as the Red Team, and that players lose rating on a lost, abandoned, or resigned match and gain rating on any victorious match, players’ ratings constantly fluctuated should they leave when they entered as the red team or won when they entered as the blue team.
Red Resign was officially considered cheating by ArenaNet. Participation in this form of match manipulation could have resulted in disciplinary action on a participant’s account.
Red Resign day was nerfed by removing Hero Battles from the game."

Now, I am not here to defend a specific server or punish another, but rather remind the players, and even Anet, that manipulation in WvW or PvP should be dealt with and resolved.

Even if the above quote really applied to WvW, or even directly to GW2, what would be the disciplinary action that you would suggest? Should Anet ban entire servers, including the rank and file members of the offending servers who have basically no actual role in the so called “cheating”? Would you try and punish server leadership, targeting certain players because of their perceived involvement in the action? how do you distinguish who is responsible in a team consisting of hundreds, and even thousands of players?

In this case I have to fall back on that old standby of “WvW is not meant to be fair”, and as such, cannot even be compared to Guild Wars 1 hero battles.

At the moment, across multiple servers, there are innocent players (WvW and PvE) who are being affected by the choices being made by some to ‘take judgment on and condemn other servers’.

At least ANet has the authority to do so.

-Old DAoC player who stands firmly behind 2v1 being a legitimate situational tactic/strategy on the battlefield and equally believes that abusing that to trade wins violates its original intent from the game from which it was borrowed.

PS: If you’re going to accuse me of QQ’ing, please nail me for being upset that the reputation of the original RvR game (DAoC) is being cheapened by the poorly thought out implementation in this game.

-Has no problem being 2v1’d, and never has in either game (check posting history)

Two observations:

Unsportsmanlike conduct has always been punished by removing the offending player(s) from the game or league for a suitable period of time. The consequence to the team is the absence of said player(s).

The only people allowed to define unsportsmanlike conduct are the referees, and their determination is final. In particular, other players, coaches, etc do not have a say.

Pretty sure that you are here to defend a specific server and punish two other particular servers in spite of what your last comment says, otherwise what would be the point of creating this thread in the first place. That aside, your example is a pretty bad one since the whole point of that exploit is to throw away your rating and lose on purpose in order to obtain pvp rewards with as little effort as possible. If anything, that could be likened to the typical behavior in EotM these days but I’m not going to open that can of worms.

I do find it amusing that you and everyone else from the particular server that your are “not” defending have such a double standard. According to you guys it’s ok to 2v1 when it doesn’t actually make the matchup deviate from your expectations BUT when it is done to a degree to actually effect a result you don’t expect it’s unsportsmanlike and cheating. Where is the line that is crossed, is it cross-world communication? We all know that anyone can join party and message anyone from other servers anyways and that anything 3rd party can’t be considered cheating by Anet. Is it using politics as an additional means to win the season instead of just population and coverage? From what I’ve heard, the same was done in season 1, but apparently a particular server won that “fair and square.” Is it because the numbers aren’t in your favor? In sPvP and normal sports for that matter, there is an even number on each side and all other things being equal, each side has an even chance of winning. However, in WvW, the numbers are NEVER equal, that is why we have 3-way instead 2-way matches because we all know which server would win if you remove skill and politics from the equation. As such, values and moral standards from those formats don’t apply here.

The way I see it, All’s Fair in Love and WvW. Any strategy that results in the greatest chance of winning overall is allowed and should be encouraged. Otherwise you end up in the situation that every other league except NA gold is in where a single server has blown out every other server every single week of the season with the only variation being servers 2-9 duking it out for the remaining positions in the last few weeks. Where’s the fun in that?

Trading wins and/or engaging in 2vs1 only hurts 1 server but helps out many Stacking a server only helps 1 server while hurting many servers at once (both in the match and the servers the players left).

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand which one hurts the overall game more. Gotta keep the priorities straight here and keep the selfishness at bay.

Before manipulation is dealt with, a much larger problem needs to be dealt with in server stacking. Some players/servers can’t be left to police their own selfish and greedy behavior so it’s best if Anet does it for them.

“Match manipulation” is a meaningless blanket term so this thread is pointless unless you want to explain where you think it’s occurring. What you’re quoting from GW1 is actually exploiting. 2v1 in a 3 sided game is certainly not it. So I’m curious how anything could be called “match manipulation” in WvW except maybe intentionally trying to tank your server.

Wizzey.7845:

Pretty sure that you are here to defend a specific server and punish two other particular servers in spite of what your last comment says, otherwise what would be the point of creating this thread in the first place. That aside, your example is a pretty bad one since the whole point of that exploit is to throw away your rating and lose on purpose in order to obtain pvp rewards with as little effort as possible. If anything, that could be likened to the typical behavior in EotM these days but I’m not going to open that can of worms.

I do find it amusing that you and everyone else from the particular server that your are “not” defending have such a double standard. According to you guys it’s ok to 2v1 when it doesn’t actually make the matchup deviate from your expectations BUT when it is done to a degree to actually effect a result you don’t expect it’s unsportsmanlike and cheating. Where is the line that is crossed, is it cross-world communication? We all know that anyone can join party and message anyone from other servers anyways and that anything 3rd party can’t be considered cheating by Anet. Is it using politics as an additional means to win the season instead of just population and coverage? From what I’ve heard, the same was done in season 1, but apparently a particular server won that “fair and square.” Is it because the numbers aren’t in your favor? In sPvP and normal sports for that matter, there is an even number on each side and all other things being equal, each side has an even chance of winning. However, in WvW, the numbers are NEVER equal, that is why we have 3-way instead 2-way matches because we all know which server would win if you remove skill and politics from the equation. As such, values and moral standards from those formats don’t apply here.

The way I see it, All’s Fair in Love and WvW. Any strategy that results in the greatest chance of winning overall is allowed and should be encouraged. Otherwise you end up in the situation that every other league except NA gold is in where a single server has blown out every other server every single week of the season with the only variation being servers 2-9 duking it out for the remaining positions in the last few weeks. Where’s the fun in that?

I concur that the ability to stack people, which occurred both in Season 1 and Season 2 on all of the Tier 1 servers, is a detriment to WvW as a whole, and to both Seasons, and just plain to people’s ability to have fun. Given that ArenaNet’s sole source of revenue from WvW appears to be the fees for server transfers, I see this problem as intractable and can not see a viable solution (meaning perhaps there should not be further Seasons).

I draw a line when people effectively can’t play. There was a 2v1 a couple of weeks back when the 1 was being spawn camped and the 2 were severely ostracizing any members who attacked players or objectives of the other. That resulted in the entire WvW population of 3 servers effectively unable to play for an entire week. Where is the fun in that?

I also draw a line at win trading, also known as match fixing. That has been seen as unsportsmanlike conduct since long before I was born.

However, and this is important, my opinion on this topic is irrelevant to the competition. I don’t get to draw lines. ArenaNet makes the rules, and ArenaNet is the sole enforcer of the rules, and all of us must abide by their choices. To date, I observe ArenaNet appearing to act as if their choice is exactly as you describe in your final paragraph above.

Spawn camping and 2 v 1 are fun activities. But expect more Sanctimonious diatribes as the tournament draws to a close.

snip, accidentally double posted, see below.

I can’t speak to double standards, because other than things that have been said on this forum, I don’t know what’s gone down in the past.

I can’t speak to the character of servers, nor would I try, because I don’t view the WvW community that way.

Experience in multiple games being the low pop server, being the one that couldn’t win, being the one in the middle, hard fought wins, feeling dominated…. makes me too empathetic with the general player base.

And the mature understanding that the amount of enmity, rooted in whatever version of “truth” that’s out there, is real enough to be a cause of concern for ALL servers involved. I don’t know what the truth is, but 56, almost 57 years of living has taught me that generally nobody is totally innocent when it comes to disagreements in relationships.

My concern is with the players whose only “crime” is rolling on a server involved in 2 seasons worth of intense competition seemingly gone horribly awry. I mean that sincerely for all servers involved, in all leagues.

Nobody is winning here.

Stands by this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/The-WvW-community/first#post4005030

bewhatever.2390:

I concur that the ability to stack people, which occurred both in Season 1 and Season 2 on all of the Tier 1 servers, is a detriment to WvW as a whole, and to both Seasons, and just plain to people’s ability to have fun. Given that ArenaNet’s sole source of revenue from WvW appears to be the fees for server transfers, I see this problem as intractable and can not see a viable solution (meaning perhaps there should not be further Seasons).

I draw a line when people effectively can’t play. There was a 2v1 a couple of weeks back when the 1 was being spawn camped and the 2 were severely ostracizing any members who attacked players or objectives of the other. That resulted in the entire WvW population of 3 servers effectively unable to play for an entire week. Where is the fun in that?

I also draw a line at win trading, also known as match fixing. That has been seen as unsportsmanlike conduct since long before I was born.

However, and this is important, my opinion on this topic is irrelevant to the competition. I don’t get to draw lines. ArenaNet makes the rules, and ArenaNet is the sole enforcer of the rules, and all of us must abide by their choices. To date, I observe ArenaNet appearing to act as if their choice is exactly as you describe in your final paragraph above.

Well there was a 2v1 2 weeks before that where I was defending the final tower on my home BL from alternating attacks from the two other servers’ map blobs where one would wipe, taking out an AC or two, then the other would come while the first reformed…rinse and repeat. Skritt happens, no server is special or has a moral high ground here.
Additionally, the 2v1 you speak of officially ended after the weekend, it persisted throughout the rest of the week because people on the 1 complained about it and those on the 2 found it entertaining.

in Season 1, a server was 2v1’d during the first week to ensure that they were not competitive for the remainder of the season. Sounds like match manipulation to me. No server has a moral high ground here either.
I still stand by that any sportsmanlike conduct only applies to games with equal sides, which is untrue in WvW.

Wizzey.7845:

I still stand by that any sportsmanlike conduct only applies to games with equal sides, which is untrue in WvW.

Then we need to agree to disagree on the meaning of sportsmanlike conduct. Perhaps in the end it doesn’t matter whether we agree or not. Only what ArenaNet thinks matters.

By my watch, this post is about a week early.

Well I really hope anet will give an official reply. I would agree trading win is a type of match manipulation. The question is does the rule apply to WvW which have no equal sides.

Being someone who has always supported the proper type of 2v1, I would say “that which shall not be named” at the least breaks the “spirit of the law” of 2v1.

I don’t believe it breaks any CoC or rules though – because there aren’t any for WvW. Even if there were there would be absolutely no way to enforce them or accurately judge what was happening.

Therefore the only solution to prevent it from happening in the future lies with the design of the tournament. I will now shamelessly promote my post for a tournament matchmaking syatem that I believe will prevent the problem in future tournaments. It also happens to be the best system for both variety and balanced (as balanced as you can get in WvW) matches:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Modified-Swiss-system-to-fix-WvW-tournaments/first#post4013327

woot more #bgtears

goldenwing.8473:

Nobody is winning here.

Season 1 didn’t work for many either that’s WHY they changed to the current system where in. Obviously the current system has a lot to be desired, so they will most likely change it for Season 3. So in the long run that addresses many of your concerns but most likely will create others in the process. Only the ignorant will associate the tournament with DAoC.

Despite you best efforts your post still comes across as a QQ. You haven’t responded to the OP but merely used this thread to launch a bunch of points you wanted to make.

The majority of the ‘innocents’ you mentioned move to said server of their own accord. Individually they have their own reasons but ultimately they had a choice and that particular server resonated for them and that’s why they moved there. And as far as the original members are concerned…. the server has changed a lot since it’s tier 2 days…. the instant win kids/ hyper-competitive players lasted no less than 2 weeks at losing before transferring to your server and have been attempting to stack it to win ever since.

It is, what it is. As much as you try and find reason with it, it looks more like your in denial about what your server has become.

And for the record we’ve had a similar exchange previously:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/What-servers-have-24-7-coverage/first#post3826071

But this has gone a LONG way off from the original OP. So in getting back to the OP, if ANet can’t solve the problem should we removed WvW?

:3

rawr got their goldcape removed for being afk in a monthly tournement!
~ matchmanipulation ftl

Hall of Heroes 2v1 matches and even 1 team “ganks” to make sure that team loses were everyday thing. It was not against the rules.

How about if “stacked server who strip-mined other servers of their wvw players and guilds and set that as the meta to which others subsequently imitated” dips into their war chest and pays for those people to go back to where they came from, and for the remainder of the tournament all of the other servers in which aforementioned Jenga server finds itself in matches with agree to not 2v1 it?

And in the future, remember the name of the Half-Life chapter where you first get to actually play before you so selfishly affect other people’s gaming experience: Unforeseen Consequences.

What about all those poor players who transferred to the server who shall not be named with visions of a Season 2 victory dancing in their little heads?

Poor folks, gotta feel something for them…don’t we?

We can feel that they served as a useful cautionary tale about fairweathering in the future.

The GW1 problem was players were reward for NOT participating. The GW2 WvW 2v1 situation still requires all of the servers to participate and fight. It is not an automatic reward for showing up and collecting a massive amount of rewards for doing nothing.

If somehow TC, JQ and BG could start a match, resign, get rewards and repeat then yes it would be a problem.

Straegen.2938:

The GW1 problem was players were reward for NOT participating. The GW2 WvW 2v1 situation still requires all of the servers to participate and fight. It is not an automatic reward for showing up and collecting a massive amount of rewards for doing nothing.

If somehow TC, JQ and BG could start a match, resign, get rewards and repeat then yes it would be a problem.

+1 for plainly posting why RR can’t be twisted into precedent for any Jenga server that can’t buy its way out of a 2v1.

What a stupid discussion. How would you even enforce “disciplinary action” even if you determine that what has happened is “wrong”? Punish the whole server? Not going to happen. Punish select players? Who exactly?

It’ll be the day when players get punished for the devs screwing up their game.

Win trading is no more match manipulation than server stacking is. Both are geared towards making other servers lose while yours wins. The only difference is Anet profits off one of them but that may change in light of what’s going on.

If there is a season 3, I honestly can’t imagine any players stupid enough to transfer to a stacked server for fear of getting 2vs1 into a guaranteed loss. If this is the case, consider it the natural stabilization of server population.

On the other hand, why do people care in the first place? It’s not like money is involved or were getting legendary skins. The rewards are mistforge weapons which I heard aren’t even that great, plus (in all likely-hood), a pile of junk in a chest which will either be sold or salvaged.

If it’s for bragging rights, over-whelming coverage is nothing to brag about

You know in this game you win some, and you lose some. That’s wvw. Just play the game. You have 2 opponents, don’t expect them to make it easy for you.

Server A or B can focus on C if they want to. or any of the combinations. There are thee opponents and two servers will always hit the target they wish to destroy first. Or something along that lines.

The solution? Be humble, be nice, and make friends. Allies are the key to win battles, in game and in real life. o/

p.s. 2v1 has existed pre season 1 around the moment after guild wars 2 beta. It exists because of how the game system is. Want to rid of 2v1? instead of 3 servers fighting, there will only be 2. o.o;; that’s no longer original. And also, why try to win a technicality?

Look at it this way, it took 2 t1 servers to beat us down to third. :P That’s what it is at least till season 2 is over.

These posts and arguments need to stop. You cannot equate what is going on to win trading in the scope of other games. GW2 is not GW1. GW2 is GW2, where WvW is not fair and never will be. The fact that Anet in their infinite wisdom continues to run a tournament for a game mode that is inherently unfair is still an extremely questionable decision in my eyes, but the conspiracy theorist in me thinks is probably about gem sales.

Do I agree with servers emailing each other commander lists, communicating on the same TS, and trading wins to seal the deal? Heck no. I think it violates an area of the game where nobody should go. But the path was chosen to make sure a server didn’t win Season 2 and there is no “rule” saying they can’t.

Sadly, I think Season 2 could have been a lot more fun for all players involved if this agreement hadn’t taken place, and natural 2v1s other other organic forms of map politics took place instead. I truly do not believe that it was a guaranteed win for one side. This is my personal opinion though, which is obviously slanted by personal bias to some degree, so take what I say with that in mind. Although I’m a pretty fair minded person overall I think.

Anyways, just let it be.

A lot of people don’t seem to grasp the concepts of natural 2v1, coordinated 2v1, and match manipulation. I don’t know if it’s just failure to actually see what is going on but commenting anyway as if they do know or lack of knowledge about the meaning of those concepts.

Natural 2v1 is what you normally see all the time in WvW which is unavoidable. For example, when green is attacking blue’s keep, red then goes and flips the rest of blue’s assets. That is natural 2v1 as it is normally situational and very short.

Coordinated 2v1 deviates from natural 2v1 since there is communication between the two servers who wish to form an alliance to go after the third.

Match manipulation is where two servers agree to form an alliance for an entire match against the third server where they do not attack each other and trade wins.

For those discounting arguments made by players on specific servers because they’re on a specific server, I suggest you google ad hominem fallacy.

1) co-ordinated 2v1
2) co-ordinated blackouts
3) co-ordinated guild purchases
4) co-ordinated server stacking

‘The server that shall not be named’ has a problem with only 1 of these 4.
Can anyone guess which?

Also… “co-ordinated 2-1 is bad! organic 2v1 is ok because we have the population and coverage to always come out on top”

hashtag BGT

edit: game clearly broken if “server that shall not be named” does not win.

Because buying players/guilds and stacking servers is “organic” and okay, but sharing channels on TS isn’t?

For the game mode to be actually fair, as opposed to letting certain servers (like your own) think that whatever they do is good and therefore okay, then coverage would have to be limited to whatever the lowest of your opposing servers has on at the time.

Oh, they only have six people on EBG? Then that’s all your server gets to field as well.

Is that the kind of “fair” you’re looking for? We can use other metrics as well – that other server’s group of six is made up of pugs? Then no guild groups for YOUR server right now either.

One of them is a gold, two are silvers, one bronze and two others? That’s all you get too.

See what happens when you throw around the idea of “fair”? I refer you back up this thread a few posts where I suggested that Jenga Prime server funds the return of all the people it has stacked itself with, and for the rest of the tournament it doesn’t get 2v1ed. There’s your fair.

Shonie.5297:

1) co-ordinated 2v1
2) co-ordinated blackouts
3) co-ordinated guild purchases
4) co-ordinated server stacking

‘The server that shall not be named’ has a problem with only 1 of these 4.
Can anyone guess which?

Also… “co-ordinated 2-1 is bad! organic 2v1 is ok because we have the population and coverage to always come out on top”

hashtag BGT

edit: game clearly broken if “server that shall not be named” does not win.

Why do these things keep coming up when the other two servers involved do them as well? I love the drama but most #BGTEARS posts seem to be bigger QQ than the BG posts. step up the pvf.

The secret to stopping 2v1s is to take a page from Sun Tzu and throw the weight of your forces on breaking the alliance.

Take the weaker server in the Alliance, and target it exclusively. Don’t attack anything claimed by the stronger server. If done right, you should at least be able to pull second in the match, and the weaker server (which will be facing all your superior forces) will start asking questions about how this Alliance benefits them. They’re doing as much work as their partner, and yet the partner gets the benefits while they get the shaft.

Alternately, make a better offer to the stronger server. Offer them 1st every week if you can get 2nd. That would be better for them than alternating between 1st and 2nd, and it would be better for you than 3rd every week.

Of course, you could always combine both strategies. If the weaker server thinks there’s a secret deal between you and the stronger server, especially if there’s evidence in that you’re not fighting the stronger server, then it’s likely that their best option would be to strike at their unprepared ‘ally’…

Ayrilana.1396:

A lot of people don’t seem to grasp the concepts of natural 2v1, coordinated 2v1, and match manipulation. I don’t know if it’s just failure to actually see what is going on but commenting anyway as if they do know or lack of knowledge about the meaning of those concepts.

Natural 2v1 is what you normally see all the time in WvW which is unavoidable. For example, when green is attacking blue’s keep, red then goes and flips the rest of blue’s assets. That is natural 2v1 as it is normally situational and very short.

Coordinated 2v1 deviates from natural 2v1 since there is communication between the two servers who wish to form an alliance to go after the third.

Match manipulation is where two servers agree to form an alliance for an entire match against the third server where they do not attack each other and trade wins.

For those discounting arguments made by players on specific servers because they’re on a specific server, I suggest you google ad hominem fallacy.

From that font of all knowledge, Wikipedia. First line:

“In organized sports, match fixing, game fixing, race fixing or sports fixing occurs as a match is played to a completely or partially pre-determined result, violating the rules of the game and often the law. "

It’s not against the rules, it’s not against the CoC, and 2v1 has been endorsed by the devs and is built into the game. “Natural” and “coordinated” are meaningless differences, since ALL 2v1 is acceptable.

And while you’re having people look things up, perhaps you’d care to google the self-serving bias, rather than accuse people that don’t agree with you of ad hominem attacks.

Liquid.9672:

snip

Paragraph 1
Seems well reasoned and intentioned.

P 2
The true colours come out.

P 3
Annnnnd finishing with another QQ

Where’s Zikory, his posts stopped the same time the 2v1 against JQ failed

Posters will read into my post what they care to see, as they have in the past.

My concern for the state of WvW for all servers still stands, as have my previous posts analyzing the implementation of both WvW and tournament. Unfortunately many of those posts are long gone as threads are removed. I expect this thread will be as well.

Again, as far as the original post on this thread: it is up to ANet to set and enforce any rules they choose. Again, at the moment, the drama surrounding these threads reinforces ANet’s perception that tournament is working as intended and transfers will continue to be the main source of revenue from WvW. The implementation of transfers, Season 1 structure and Tournament are contributing, and have contributed to the current (broken) state of WvW. For all servers.

Which is the bigger picture focus here: longevity/impact on WvW.

Rimmy.9217:

Ayrilana.1396:

A lot of people don’t seem to grasp the concepts of natural 2v1, coordinated 2v1, and match manipulation. I don’t know if it’s just failure to actually see what is going on but commenting anyway as if they do know or lack of knowledge about the meaning of those concepts.

Natural 2v1 is what you normally see all the time in WvW which is unavoidable. For example, when green is attacking blue’s keep, red then goes and flips the rest of blue’s assets. That is natural 2v1 as it is normally situational and very short.

Coordinated 2v1 deviates from natural 2v1 since there is communication between the two servers who wish to form an alliance to go after the third.

Match manipulation is where two servers agree to form an alliance for an entire match against the third server where they do not attack each other and trade wins.

For those discounting arguments made by players on specific servers because they’re on a specific server, I suggest you google ad hominem fallacy.

From that font of all knowledge, Wikipedia. First line:

“In organized sports, match fixing, game fixing, race fixing or sports fixing occurs as a match is played to a completely or partially pre-determined result, violating the rules of the game and often the law. "

It’s not against the rules, it’s not against the CoC, and 2v1 has been endorsed by the devs and is built into the game. “Natural” and “coordinated” are meaningless differences, since ALL 2v1 is acceptable.
attacks.

I bolded the part of my post above that you missed. I never stated both of those types were wrong.

Rimmy.9217:

And while you’re having people look things up, perhaps you’d care to google the self-serving bias, rather than accuse people that don’t agree with you of ad hominem attacks.

Nice attempt at another ad hominem attack. Rather than attacking the argument, you attack the person.

1v1v1 works well for a permanent situation, but “Seasons” should be 1v1 only.

Everyone who is defending an organize 2v1 – if next Season when server X discovers they won’t be able to win and guilds are instructed to buy a second account to keep idle in maps of the opposing sides to give them a numbers advantage, I hope you support that as well. It’s the same argument.

Sorry for the runon.

OK, can someone post where Anet has the WvWvW rules? Otherwise hush!!! And don’t link sPvP one.

just want to point out that Desolation in EU is getting 2v1 every week now. Sometimes it is unintentional, sometimes it is blatantly intentional. Depends on the servers. HOWEVER, all we do is kitten and cry on the forums, then once we have vented a bit, we go ingame and do our part.

2v1 is nothing but a test of determination and courage. Needless to say, if you lack either, you will fail.

Get over it, get ingame, have fun, gather your loot – rinse, repeat and G.L.H.F

signed: proud victim of 2v1

Please note that we do not allow Match-up threads on the Guild Wars 2 forum. You can read about our forum changes here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guild-Wars-2-Forum-Moderation-Updates
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Upcoming-Forum-Changes-to-WvW-Match-ups-Sub-forum