Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: Dayra.7405

Dayra.7405

Squad size is limited to X (X = 40 in Gold (T1-3) and EotM, 25 in Silver (T4-6) and 15 in Bronze (T7+) ).
Every player not in the squad of a commander and not in 1500 radius of that commander and that has more than X players within radius of 1500 gets an unremoveable stacking-debuf (visible to any friend and fiend):

[Edit] Under the above condition, for every player above 40 around you, you loose 1% of your Vitality, Toughness and Healing Power

If you have 60 people around you and are not protected by squad-membership you loose

  • 20% Vitality
  • 20% Toughness
  • 20% Healing Power

[\Edit]
If 2 commanders are within 1500 range the anti-stacking debut applies to them and their squad as well.

If you die with this debuf, you cannot be revived.

Ceterum censeo SFR esse delendam!

(edited by Dayra.7405)

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Posted by: Offair.2563

Offair.2563

So if I roam i get 50% more or less vit/tough/healpower?

Big Babou, Ranger for life.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.

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Posted by: Dayra.7405

Dayra.7405

If you roam alone you stay as you are.

If you have more than X people around you and are not in the commander squad you have 1/2 vita/toughness/healing.

Ceterum censeo SFR esse delendam!

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Posted by: Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054

If I remember correctly this was asked in a CDI, and the Red Shirts told us it was a great idea and is somthing they will add, soon.

The WvW Forum Poster Formerly Known As Omaris Mortuus Est

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Posted by: Dayra.7405

Dayra.7405

Wasn’t aware of that, and of course the last CDI is a while ago so the big question is
When is “soon”?

Did it include the squad? It means: Come as one of the people below X and stay debuf-free, independent of how many come later, which I find important.

Ceterum censeo SFR esse delendam!

(edited by Dayra.7405)

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Posted by: Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054

Wall put it this way, most suggestions and ideas you see posted in the last month or so, have already been made 1-2 years ago!

At that time the devs dais some of them are great ideas we’ll add them soon as we can.
Coloured commander tags was one of them, it’s taken over a year!

So if soon is a year, then

The WvW Forum Poster Formerly Known As Omaris Mortuus Est

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Posted by: Jeknar.6184

Jeknar.6184

If you roam alone you stay as you are.

If you have more than X people around you and are not in the commander squad you have 1/2 vita/toughness/healing.

So if a guild is running tagless they have 50% vit/tough/heal?

Kawagima / Kelvena Riverstream / Calamis Fatima / Hanna Flintlocke
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Posted by: Ettanin.8271

Ettanin.8271

Hmm… tag griefing gets a new meaning that way.

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Posted by: Filovirus.6258

Filovirus.6258

Between the tag griefing (specially in higher up servers), and the fact you are in fact PUNISHING servers for having numbers (i love how you want to limit the numbers/tier to make CERTAIN the lower servers can’t ever climb up the ladder ever again), on top of the fact you have absolutely no idea how WvW is outside of Gold at all.

There is absolutely no reason to limit to 15 in Bronze. EVEN in T9 most guilds are running 10/20 people, and in T8/T7 it’s more often 15/30 than anything else.

Punishing the guilds and the players for playing together, that’s a new level in stupidity.
Forcing them to have public tags (to not get the debuff) to then punish them for people joining them (when they have no way to make them not too), Priceless.

Can all people with “great genius ideas” about WvW keep them for themselves forever ?

They are so dumb Anet could implement them (nothing would surprise me anymore after their “take” on Commander tags :/).

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Posted by: Dayra.7405

Dayra.7405

If you roam alone you stay as you are.

If you have more than X people around you and are not in the commander squad you have 1/2 vita/toughness/healing.

So if a guild is running tagless they have 50% vit/tough/heal?

If they run with more than X people, yes. (anyone above X if they run with tag as well.)

@Filovirus:

And none is punished for having numbers on the map. You are only punished if you bring all people on the mp into the same blob.

And yes, I never played in silver (maybe soon) nor bronze, but I heard quite often from people there: I don’t wan a be gold, because I don’t want these big blobs.

Here we are: blobs are punished if the grew to large.

And concerning tag briefing: 2-4 commander per map would finally start to make sense, and yes I am convinced that WvW would be better if that happens. More strategic choices and bettwe fights.

Concerning your wording: aggressive wording is only a very bad replacement for arguments.

Ceterum censeo SFR esse delendam!

(edited by Dayra.7405)

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Posted by: Ettanin.8271

Ettanin.8271

And concerning tag griefing: 2-4 commander per map would finally start to make sense, and yes I am convinced that WvW would be better if that happens. More strategic choices and bettwe fights.

This will lead to the same dillemmas we currently have on Tequatl with eastern and western defense spawning champions if too many people are at those.

Punishing for cooperation is not the right way.

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Posted by: Dayra.7405

Dayra.7405

A WvW map is a bit larger than the teq-fight area.

And it’s not cooperation that is punished, but mindless blobbing.

Ceterum censeo SFR esse delendam!

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Posted by: Filovirus.6258

Filovirus.6258

If you roam alone you stay as you are.

If you have more than X people around you and are not in the commander squad you have 1/2 vita/toughness/healing.

So if a guild is running tagless they have 50% vit/tough/heal?

If they run with more than X people, yes. (anyone above X if they run with tag as well.)

@Filovirus:

And none is punished for having numbers on the map. You are only punished if you bring all people on the mp into the same blob.

And yes, I never played in silver (maybe soon) nor bronze, but I heard quite often from people there: I don’t wan a be gold, because I don’t want these big blobs.

Here we are: blobs are punished if the grew to large.

And concerning tag briefing: 2-4 commander per map would finally start to make sense, and yes I am convinced that WvW would be better if that happens. More strategic choices and bettwe fights.

Concerning your wording: aggressive wording is only a very bad replacement for arguments.

Most people from bronze and other tiers pretending they don’t want to move to silver/gold because it’s “only blob vs blob” have no clue and have no idea how WvW looks there NOW (long gone are the days of massive queues everyday on most maps during whole prime time, it’s seldom queues around reset/prime time in one map, maybe 2, during season….).

On top of that, the “blob” are there too in Bronze, it’s just it’s 40/60 man blobs, on one map, instead of 60+ on 3 maps…. and that there is no one to play around, roam/run chaos team in Bronze when there is in Silver/Gold.

No one wants to be PUNISHED for not having a tag up. Not every guild wants to attrack people (what tags do).

There is no reason to punish blobs, tools for those are already ingame (the insane damage and 50 aoe cap of siege), there just need to be incentive to do the rest.

“Killing” blobs right now without changing what has to be done on the side will only mean ONE thing, it’ll kill WvW some more.

Your ideas are bad for pretty much every player and every guild, and for the game. It won’t allow “more” of anything, it’ll just make (randomly with zero control of the players on it) the game worse for everyone.

It’ll be “very fun” for players to be told by their guild to “gtfo you are making us weaker”, for guilds to suffer because they HAVE to get a tag and others flock on them (specially in Bronze, the 15 man limit is hilariously stupid, but the 40 man in gold is as stupid), and on top of that you basically made EVERY SINGLE DEFENDED OBJECTIVE WITH SIEGE ON THE MAP INVULNERABLE !!!
How many times with those people take it without leaving PERIOD (and they won’t come back) ?
How long till commanders just stop playing because commanding means having a tag on the map (to not get your stupid debuff), and having a tag means attrackting people you can chase away/refuse/whatever, and being in fact “griefed” into the debuff that kills you.
Staying at spawn does as much or more, without the frustration of being griefed all day long.
And if people stay at spawn, they stop playing (again).

In the current state you can ALREADY keep a 40+ man group outside with 15 or so defenders at most keeps if there is siege, with your idea, you just made those invulnerable.

It’s pretty much as BAD as an idea as the guy who wanted to put dozens of stupid gateways, kittenblock, ridiculous achievements conditions, point lead/objectives control conditions on Commander Tag.

Stop already with the idiotic idea that are utterly bad for the game and are just yet another version of "ouinouinouin, they aren’t playing like “I” want THEM to play, so ANet needs to FORCE them to play like “I” want".

There is a reason why blobs form (multiple actually), and the ONLY acceptable way of “fighting” that is to make it MORE appealing and effective to do it otherwise by CHANGING mechanisms, sieges, objectives and such and not “punishing” people for doing so, because that will only lead to people not playing.

kitten when will people realize we need LESS detterant to WvW play, NOT MORE ?? We want MORE people in WvW, not LESS.
We want MORE people commanding regularily to have commanders all the time, without depending on half a dozen people 3/4 hours a day everyday that burn out really fast, not less.

Btw, the announced Tag system will probably (if used properly) allow for quite some new tactical developpements, and use of multiple groups accross maps.

But your idea is bad, one of the worst possible thing that could happen to WvW as is (or any variation btw).

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Posted by: Filovirus.6258

Filovirus.6258

A WvW map is a bit larger than the teq-fight area.

And it’s not cooperation that is punished, but mindless blobbing.

Not at all, it’s cooperation.

Having people don’t mean it’s mindless blobbing. You can be totally mindless in a 15 man group without problem and do things.

You can have a brain and do things in 40/50 man groups too.

The problem, once again, is that you are trying to FORCE others to play like YOU want them to.

If you aren’t happy with the blobs in Gold, gtfo of it ? It’s not like people in lower tiers will resent getting more bodies…..

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Posted by: Dayra.7405

Dayra.7405

At the 12th sept. everyone should have a lamp on every char, so if one zerg is full, start the next.

I always heard (I was never there) that the reason to play Bronze is small rooming groups instead of mindless zerging. I cannot judge who is the majority in Bronze, but if you are right Filovirus, there is really no sense to keep 24/27 servers. (Even in T2 2 borders are usually mostly empty even in primetime)
12 teams in NA and in EU would be enough in that case.

Ceterum censeo SFR esse delendam!

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Posted by: Filovirus.6258

Filovirus.6258

There hasn’t been any reason for having 24/27 servers around for a year or so, it should have been reduced by (at least) 6 to 9 on both sides months ago.
The last 3/4 servers opened in EU and NA shouldn’t even have opened EVER so 1 to 2 years later they are even more of a problem….

Having maps empty don’t change a thing about “blobbing” it’s just the “blobs” are abit smaller and only on one map or two and part time, but they are there too.

And the whole “roaming” and small scale fights haven’t really been the case in Bronze for months, mostly because it’s either :
“there is so little people around that putting everyone together it’s still 15/20 peeps”
“you are forced to stack up because you are in a ranking where higher servers vastly outnumber you so you stack to try to withstand the onslaught, and while THEY have numbers to do other things during that time you don’t”
“every time anything close to your numbers give you a hard time, start holding hands with 2+ other guilds of your servers and blob”

There is like a handful of small scale guilds on each Bronze servers that really enjoy fighting, engage bigger forces, don’t withdraw in towers/keeps at the first sign of resistance, and try to avoid forming 40+ man blobs unless forced to by the ennemy.

Most of the time the whole “we like it there, we love having 3 to 4 maps totally empty 19h out of 24h, being able to roam for over 1h without facing anyone, doing PvD or PvE flipping camps, we don’t want blobs” is denial and total bs, from people either not ready to pay for transferts, or people that in reality don’t like WvW, they like bragging about it and pretending to be “l33t” while doing PvD an hour or so a day.

It’s mostly people you NEVER see around as soon as things get hard/your server start losing, that you don’t see either when you win quite some because the karma training in large groups goes far faster and after there is nothing left to do, and you only see them chest beat all day about how “great” it is down there (hint : it isn’t, most people stay there because they have friends, people they like in multiple guilds and such).

The first moment a couple of decent sized guilds of a server will start moving servers, and talk about it before hand, others will leave too.

There is already pretty much no one on the server and even less on the ennemy’s side in T7/T8 most of the day, below it’s even worse.
To “love” that you must not love WvW, just the chestbeating coming with it (while not playing) and the fact you do PvD while being able to “berate” PvE’ers “scrubs” like most WvWers do, when they are in fact doing things even more brainless and easy most of their time in WvW nowadays, specially if they play outside the 3/4h a day of prime time.

To give you an idea, the “pride” of FoW’s (the server from the poster up there who bragged about loving WvW and pretends he would stop playing if servers were merged) is having a group of 3/4 mesmers golem rushing keeps at 5/6 am uk time when there is no one to defend !! Yeah, that’s “skill” and mighty fun… everyday for weeks because it’s the only thing they can do.

Bronze WAS more roaming/small scale oriented till S1 roughly, it has changed a LOT since then like the way of playing in Gold/Silver did.

If you want what Bronze was, go to mid/high silver right now (specially if you aren’t playing only during main prime time).

People forgot that the massive zerg fests in Gold and such are long gone, they went away with the queues disappearing (mostly even during season) and the fact that the lag/skill lag from massive fights got pretty reduced, making it that the whole “build a blob, hit 1, collect” way of playing went away, if you do that in zerg fights now, you lose to people half your numbers playing decently/properly because the skill lag and insane lag problems are mostly gone.

On top of that, overall, people’s comp got better at running the game too.

(edited by Filovirus.6258)

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Posted by: Valky.2574

Valky.2574

Sounds like a horrible ideal to me only thing this will make me do is stay out of the battle never coming in to heal or res you only thing i will attack is gates and champs and run in to cap nothing else

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

Then groups will just have 1 commander for every x players. Where x is the max number that can be in a squad.

And now with multiple colors they can say that blue is main, red is secondary, etc.

Your solution doesn’t fix the problem. And punishes bigger groups that aren’t just zerging mindlessly.

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Posted by: dancingmonkey.4902

dancingmonkey.4902

If you roam alone you stay as you are.

If you have more than X people around you and are not in the commander squad you have 1/2 vita/toughness/healing.

So if a guild is running tagless they have 50% vit/tough/heal?

If they run with more than X people, yes. (anyone above X if they run with tag as well.)

@Filovirus:

And none is punished for having numbers on the map. You are only punished if you bring all people on the mp into the same blob.

And yes, I never played in silver (maybe soon) nor bronze, but I heard quite often from people there: I don’t wan a be gold, because I don’t want these big blobs.

Here we are: blobs are punished if the grew to large.

And concerning tag briefing: 2-4 commander per map would finally start to make sense, and yes I am convinced that WvW would be better if that happens. More strategic choices and bettwe fights.

Concerning your wording: aggressive wording is only a very bad replacement for arguments.

So we are forced to play guerrilla tactics only, and punished for fighting as an army? All of this so called “anti blob” rhetoric is horrible. We have a few guilds that often have 60-80 players in WvW on a given night. Folks are demanding they are disallowed to play as a guild because it harms your delicate sensibilities that we play together simply because “blobs” offend you as the opposition ???

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Posted by: Coldtart.4785

Coldtart.4785

Get better at zerg-busting.

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Posted by: Filovirus.6258

Filovirus.6258

If you roam alone you stay as you are.

If you have more than X people around you and are not in the commander squad you have 1/2 vita/toughness/healing.

So if a guild is running tagless they have 50% vit/tough/heal?

If they run with more than X people, yes. (anyone above X if they run with tag as well.)

@Filovirus:

And none is punished for having numbers on the map. You are only punished if you bring all people on the mp into the same blob.

And yes, I never played in silver (maybe soon) nor bronze, but I heard quite often from people there: I don’t wan a be gold, because I don’t want these big blobs.

Here we are: blobs are punished if the grew to large.

And concerning tag briefing: 2-4 commander per map would finally start to make sense, and yes I am convinced that WvW would be better if that happens. More strategic choices and bettwe fights.

Concerning your wording: aggressive wording is only a very bad replacement for arguments.

So we are forced to play guerrilla tactics only, and punished for fighting as an army? All of this so called “anti blob” rhetoric is horrible. We have a few guilds that often have 60-80 players in WvW on a given night. Folks are demanding they are disallowed to play as a guild because it harms your delicate sensibilities that we play together simply because “blobs” offend you as the opposition ???

With his idea it’s even more “fun” on Bronze tier servers, there you are only allowed to play condi bunker builds, mostly thieves/mesmers because you aren’t allowed to reach the size where you can at last negate those builds….

You know the “so fun and balanced” builds that there is only that left in all roaming people/groups, and that killed solo roaming basically because no one wants to face them.

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Posted by: Reborn.2934

Reborn.2934

50% debuff is to big number for this game.

p.s. my problem from blobs is that i am taking all the time hits from the eneimies , so if i wanted something to lower from the zergs , this should be the blob’s power and condition damage , not their survivability from v/t/hp

(edited by Reborn.2934)

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Posted by: Filovirus.6258

Filovirus.6258

50% debuff is to big number for this game.

p.s. my problem from blobs is that i am taking all the time hits from the eneimies , so if i wanted something to lower from the zergs , this should be the blob’s power and condition damage , not their survivability from v/t/hp

Can’t happen either, because if you do that, you basically made the game into a : you can’t kill the ennemy, but can’t really die either, welcome hours long boring fests of people hitting each others without killing each other…

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

No. That a bad ideal you can simply just troll ppl who are trying to do small man things to avoid this % drop and just simply sit on them and cut there hp by 1/2. There should never been any punishment for having high number beyond giving off map info. Online games are made to be played with other and there should never be a bad part to playing with others.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Reborn.2934

Reborn.2934

50% debuff is to big number for this game.

p.s. my problem from blobs is that i am taking all the time hits from the eneimies , so if i wanted something to lower from the zergs , this should be the blob’s power and condition damage , not their survivability from v/t/hp

Can’t happen either, because if you do that, you basically made the game into a : you can’t kill the ennemy, but can’t really die either, welcome hours long boring fests of people hitting each others without killing each other…

this thread is about big zerging debuff not for all other situations . the zerg fights are the faster fights in-game . people killed extremely fast in big fights and in extremely big numbers .it is in the edge of farming . not npc but players. this should be improved somehow and i think the only way is to lower the damage that do the zergs against players from power and condition damage.

this will create the need for better tactics in battle

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Posted by: Filovirus.6258

Filovirus.6258

50% debuff is to big number for this game.

p.s. my problem from blobs is that i am taking all the time hits from the eneimies , so if i wanted something to lower from the zergs , this should be the blob’s power and condition damage , not their survivability from v/t/hp

Can’t happen either, because if you do that, you basically made the game into a : you can’t kill the ennemy, but can’t really die either, welcome hours long boring fests of people hitting each others without killing each other…

this thread is about big zerging debuff not for all other situations . the zerg fights are the faster fights in-game . people killed extremely fast in big fights and in extremely big numbers .it is in the edge of farming . not npc but players. this should be improved somehow and i think the only way is to lower the damage that do the zergs against players from power and condition damage.

this will create the need for better tactics in battle

The need for tactics are already there, because people rise as fast as they are downed, due to rallying, and most zergs fights ends up in attrition battles once cds are exhausted.

You seem to “forget” why zerging became something, it’s because of the AoE cap (and how it works) and the siege AoE cap too.

If you want to “fix” zerging in anyway (it doesn’t need fixing at all btw, just incentives to do something else and corrdination/leading tools asked for OVER 2 YEARS NOW by the community to make it happen….), you’ll have to start reworking/rebalancing TOTALLY how AoE works, their damage, siege damage and all that goes with it.

And having different ways of managing that in the SAME game mode, depending on situations is something no relatively competent designer/devs will ever do, there is far too much problems that could arise (and will at one point or another) and would involve far too much complexity, and need for “on the fly” calculs the GW2 servers can’t handle already as proven for months (only reason the servers hold on for WvW battles now is that there is barely half the people there was before over or even less).

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Posted by: Coldtart.4785

Coldtart.4785

Zergs would have 600 radius instant death autoattacks and 80-150k HP/s healing if there was no aoe cap.

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Posted by: Reborn.2934

Reborn.2934

Zergs would have 600 radius instant death autoattacks and 80-150k HP/s healing if there was no aoe cap.

the incoming damage has cap ?

(edited by Reborn.2934)

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Posted by: DeeSystm.1256

DeeSystm.1256

Aight so i didn’t completely read all the replies but here’s what anet would do.

They would tell you people are allowed to play as they please, large groups are a thing people like to play in, thus, you’re not getting a debuff for large groups, or a buff for small groups. Either way introduces a power creep for those who don’t wanna see it and it ruins a large guilds fun.
They may change their minds in the future, but as it stands now, no.

TL;DR For 2 years anets stance on large or small group buffs relative to numbers has been, NO!

“I came to play.” me
r4420k+ blazetrain

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Posted by: Dayra.7405

Dayra.7405

Anet’s stand seems more to be: Effort into WvW? No,why, it’s already perfect

40vs40 battle are mostly fine, but 60+vs60+ battles are to much for their engine.
Their support for them is lacking some performance

Ceterum censeo SFR esse delendam!

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Posted by: DeeSystm.1256

DeeSystm.1256

Anet’s stand seems more to be: Effort into WvW? No,why, it’s already perfect

40vs40 battle are mostly fine, but 60+vs60+ battles are to much for their engine.
Their support for them is lacking some performance

Yessir, it’s pretty lame.

“I came to play.” me
r4420k+ blazetrain

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Posted by: Jim Hunter.6821

Jim Hunter.6821

There hasn’t been any reason for having 24/27 servers around for a year or so, it should have been reduced by (at least) 6 to 9 on both sides months ago.
The last 3/4 servers opened in EU and NA shouldn’t even have opened EVER so 1 to 2 years later they are even more of a problem….

Having maps empty don’t change a thing about “blobbing” it’s just the “blobs” are abit smaller and only on one map or two and part time, but they are there too.

And the whole “roaming” and small scale fights haven’t really been the case in Bronze for months, mostly because it’s either :
“there is so little people around that putting everyone together it’s still 15/20 peeps”
“you are forced to stack up because you are in a ranking where higher servers vastly outnumber you so you stack to try to withstand the onslaught, and while THEY have numbers to do other things during that time you don’t”
“every time anything close to your numbers give you a hard time, start holding hands with 2+ other guilds of your servers and blob”

There is like a handful of small scale guilds on each Bronze servers that really enjoy fighting, engage bigger forces, don’t withdraw in towers/keeps at the first sign of resistance, and try to avoid forming 40+ man blobs unless forced to by the ennemy.

Most of the time the whole “we like it there, we love having 3 to 4 maps totally empty 19h out of 24h, being able to roam for over 1h without facing anyone, doing PvD or PvE flipping camps, we don’t want blobs” is denial and total bs, from people either not ready to pay for transferts, or people that in reality don’t like WvW, they like bragging about it and pretending to be “l33t” while doing PvD an hour or so a day.

It’s mostly people you NEVER see around as soon as things get hard/your server start losing, that you don’t see either when you win quite some because the karma training in large groups goes far faster and after there is nothing left to do, and you only see them chest beat all day about how “great” it is down there (hint : it isn’t, most people stay there because they have friends, people they like in multiple guilds and such).

The first moment a couple of decent sized guilds of a server will start moving servers, and talk about it before hand, others will leave too.

There is already pretty much no one on the server and even less on the ennemy’s side in T7/T8 most of the day, below it’s even worse.
To “love” that you must not love WvW, just the chestbeating coming with it (while not playing) and the fact you do PvD while being able to “berate” PvE’ers “scrubs” like most WvWers do, when they are in fact doing things even more brainless and easy most of their time in WvW nowadays, specially if they play outside the 3/4h a day of prime time.

To give you an idea, the “pride” of FoW’s (the server from the poster up there who bragged about loving WvW and pretends he would stop playing if servers were merged) is having a group of 3/4 mesmers golem rushing keeps at 5/6 am uk time when there is no one to defend !! Yeah, that’s “skill” and mighty fun… everyday for weeks because it’s the only thing they can do.

Bronze WAS more roaming/small scale oriented till S1 roughly, it has changed a LOT since then like the way of playing in Gold/Silver did.

If you want what Bronze was, go to mid/high silver right now (specially if you aren’t playing only during main prime time).

People forgot that the massive zerg fests in Gold and such are long gone, they went away with the queues disappearing (mostly even during season) and the fact that the lag/skill lag from massive fights got pretty reduced, making it that the whole “build a blob, hit 1, collect” way of playing went away, if you do that in zerg fights now, you lose to people half your numbers playing decently/properly because the skill lag and insane lag problems are mostly gone.

On top of that, overall, people’s comp got better at running the game too.

What a load of bullkitten

Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: Wicked.5479

Wicked.5479

(Even in T2 2 borders are usually mostly empty even in primetime)
12 teams in NA and in EU would be enough in that case.

really where do people keep getting the info that there are no qeues anymore in the game.
my server is in tier 3 atm and we had queues on all borders primetime on the weekends(13 minimal to 64 max on EB) and during the week usually 1 or 2 BL with queue when primetime starts. (EB has allways a queue in the evening so i wont count that)

Kengo Miyazawa ~ norn warrior
Commander of Far Shiverpeaks
Leader of Bubblegum Dragons [GUM]

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

I think this is punishing players that want to zerg. While zerging isn’t my favorite play style, I wouldn’t remove it from WvW since WvW is meant to be about large scale combat even if the GW engine doesn’t always handle it well.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

in WvW

Posted by: Dayra.7405

Dayra.7405

(Even in T2 2 borders are usually mostly empty even in primetime)
12 teams in NA and in EU would be enough in that case.

really where do people keep getting the info that there are no qeues anymore in the game.
my server is in tier 3 atm and we had queues on all borders primetime on the weekends(13 minimal to 64 max on EB) and during the week usually 1 or 2 BL with queue when primetime starts. (EB has allways a queue in the evening so i wont count that)

Lol for that you don’t play very well against us, we have much less. We mostly had EB and 1 border usually home queue during weekend, around 20 at eb, around 5 at border

Ceterum censeo SFR esse delendam!

(edited by Dayra.7405)

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

in WvW

Posted by: Johje Holan.4607

Johje Holan.4607

There’s a difference between a zerg and a blob. I think what OP is talking about is the blob tactic of “stack, stack, stack” all on top of one another.

A zerg can still be a zerg if it were to spread out on the battlefield or group into different smaller groups and use different tactics rather than everyone “stack, stack, stack” in one place.

But I do agree a debuff is not realistic and Anet will never do it.

I have suggested a new utility skill before – a Blob Bomb which would scale its damage depending on how many other players are in the vicinity.

But I have since decided that that wouldn’t work either. Nothing that is going to encourage people to scream at each other to “get away from me” will ever, nor should ever, be introduced.

What should be introduced is better coordinating mechanics. For now we are getting multi color commander tags. Hopefully, we will use them to run split groups and develop different tactics. Its in our hands now.

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: Dayra.7405

Dayra.7405

Nothing that is going to encourage people to scream at each other to “get away from me” will ever, nor should ever, be introduced.

That’s why I used the squad in the proposal.

The commander squad (the 40 that where there first) is not harmed by this debuffed, and therefore doesn’t need to scream. And the ones that appear later, can decide on their own if they want to stay with the debuff, or better build a second zerg that runs somewhere else.

Ceterum censeo SFR esse delendam!

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

in WvW

Posted by: Wicked.5479

Wicked.5479

(Even in T2 2 borders are usually mostly empty even in primetime)
12 teams in NA and in EU would be enough in that case.

really where do people keep getting the info that there are no qeues anymore in the game.
my server is in tier 3 atm and we had queues on all borders primetime on the weekends(13 minimal to 64 max on EB) and during the week usually 1 or 2 BL with queue when primetime starts. (EB has allways a queue in the evening so i wont count that)

Lol for that you don’t play very well against us, we have much less. We mostly had EB and 1 border usually home queue during weekend, around 20 at eb, around 5 at border

dont know who ‘us’ is but you might notice we tick 350 at primetime, we just lack coverage.

Kengo Miyazawa ~ norn warrior
Commander of Far Shiverpeaks
Leader of Bubblegum Dragons [GUM]

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: Indie.4129

Indie.4129

Don’t punish stats, too many people will cry so anet would never consider it. IMO something as simple as:

- the Zerg after x number of people within a given radius shows up on a map allowing you enemies to view your movement.
- Or a speed debuff, but that goes back to stat changing.

(edited by Indie.4129)

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

You can punish mindless blobbing without ever hitting stats…

It’s called forced respawn. If you’re dead you no longer have a 15 minute dead state that can be exploited to be infinite. Instead you have 30 seconds to click the nearest waypoint or be removed from the battle and given a “rallybot” debuff much like the dishonored debuff.

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

Nothing that is going to encourage people to scream at each other to “get away from me” will ever, nor should ever, be introduced.

That’s why I used the squad in the proposal.

The commander squad (the 40 that where there first) is not harmed by this debuffed, and therefore doesn’t need to scream. And the ones that appear later, can decide on their own if they want to stay with the debuff, or better build a second zerg that runs somewhere else.

It won’t generate two zergs. It will generate two squads that run together. And a number of guilds that are primarily wvw are larger than 40 members. Are they forced to not play together?

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: Chalky.8540

Chalky.8540

So if I understand this correctly, this is a proposal to stop mass PvP happening in a mass PvP format?

Mindless blobs die extremely quickly when they come up against an organised group with smaller numbers already. I don’t think it should be anyone’s objective to put in arbitrary restrictions to ensure that an unskilled large group dies to an unskilled small group.

Unskilled groups should die and stack discipline is one of the organisational skills that makes that happen.

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: Wicked.5479

Wicked.5479

So if I understand this correctly, this is a proposal to stop mass PvP happening in a mass PvP format?

Mindless blobs die extremely quickly when they come up against an organised group of at least 25 people with smaller numbers already. I don’t think it should be anyone’s objective to put in arbitrary restrictions to ensure that an unskilled large group dies to an unskilled small group.

Unskilled groups should die and stack discipline is one of the organisational skills that makes that happen.

added something to fix your statement.
meaning smaller groups still have no chance in hell to outdmg even the ressing

(in my mind a blob is at least 40 btw)

Kengo Miyazawa ~ norn warrior
Commander of Far Shiverpeaks
Leader of Bubblegum Dragons [GUM]

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: style.6173

style.6173

@OP:

No thanks. People go to WvW for large fights. If I want smaller fights, I can go to PvP.

Stop trying to impose your game mode on others.

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: Zackie.8923

Zackie.8923

nerf coverage, not the zerg.

say for a 12 hour period, the first match starts at 12, next at 4, then last at 8. each sitting last 1-2 hours.

total points from these small spurts of matches determine the winner.

matches which feature dead servers contribute lesser %points to the total, vice versa.

(edited by Zackie.8923)

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: Filovirus.6258

Filovirus.6258

(Even in T2 2 borders are usually mostly empty even in primetime)
12 teams in NA and in EU would be enough in that case.

really where do people keep getting the info that there are no qeues anymore in the game.
my server is in tier 3 atm and we had queues on all borders primetime on the weekends(13 minimal to 64 max on EB) and during the week usually 1 or 2 BL with queue when primetime starts. (EB has allways a queue in the evening so i wont count that)

FSP is pretty much the only server in EU like that, because of the MASSIVE bandwagon that is happening since the end of S2 on top of quite some more transfering there in preparation for next Season….

Most Gold servers seldom have queue on EB and maybe a bl on reset night, sometimes we, and queues not longer than 15/20 mins either…..

Everything else only has “queues” (ie : 10 people or so that get in in under 5 mins) on reset night in EB once in a blue moon, or sometimes briefly on a bl map.

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: Filovirus.6258

Filovirus.6258

Nothing that is going to encourage people to scream at each other to “get away from me” will ever, nor should ever, be introduced.

That’s why I used the squad in the proposal.

The commander squad (the 40 that where there first) is not harmed by this debuffed, and therefore doesn’t need to scream. And the ones that appear later, can decide on their own if they want to stay with the debuff, or better build a second zerg that runs somewhere else.

No even the squad members are affected and harmed because they CAN’T force others to gtfo, and your “debuff” just made those one free oneshot rallybots for the ennemy, effectively killing the squad for free.
Yeah !!!

And that’s not even talking about the fact your “idea” resolve around putting a tag on the map for people to flog onto while punishing them for…. nor that it forces quite some people to not be able to see other tags on the map for coordination (yes it’s a stupid design by Anet but it’s the current state of the game, and with Anet taking over 2 years to add account bound tags and 3 colors, getting decently working commanding and tactical tools won’t happend before 2050 or something).

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: Dayra.7405

Dayra.7405

Nothing that is going to encourage people to scream at each other to “get away from me” will ever, nor should ever, be introduced.

That’s why I used the squad in the proposal.

The commander squad (the 40 that where there first) is not harmed by this debuffed, and therefore doesn’t need to scream. And the ones that appear later, can decide on their own if they want to stay with the debuff, or better build a second zerg that runs somewhere else.

It won’t generate two zergs. It will generate two squads that run together. And a number of guilds that are primarily wvw are larger than 40 members. Are they forced to not play together?

The two commanders should be 1500 away from each, was the only restrition I put in on this. If the manage to put the enemy in the middle, sure they can cooperatively beat him.

I just want a avoid that more than 40 people stack together, heal each other, buff each other, condition remove each other, reduce individual damage from AoE (the more stack the less likely it hits each), i.e. gain all advantages of overstacking in 1 place without any disadvantage.

The current mechanics favors that all people that fit one map stack together. This should be countered, such that 40 becomes the optimal size and not 100.

Ceterum censeo SFR esse delendam!

(edited by Dayra.7405)

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

in WvW

Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

Nothing that is going to encourage people to scream at each other to “get away from me” will ever, nor should ever, be introduced.

That’s why I used the squad in the proposal.

The commander squad (the 40 that where there first) is not harmed by this debuffed, and therefore doesn’t need to scream. And the ones that appear later, can decide on their own if they want to stay with the debuff, or better build a second zerg that runs somewhere else.

It won’t generate two zergs. It will generate two squads that run together. And a number of guilds that are primarily wvw are larger than 40 members. Are they forced to not play together?

The two commanders should be 1500 away from each, was the only restrition I put in on this. If the manage to put the enemy in the middle, sure they can cooperatively beat him.

I just want a avoid that more than 40 people stack together, heal each other, buff each other, condition remove each other, reduce individual damage from AoE (the more stack the less likely it hits each), i.e. gain all advantages of overstacking in 1 place without any disadvantage.

The current mechanics favors that all people that fit one map stack together. This should be countered, such that 40 becomes the optimal size and not 100.

The Commanders will just position themselves on the opposite edges of the zerg.

And there goes any and all WvW GUILD events.

Sorry, we’re doing a WvW guild event, but due to the stupid debuff, we can’t all group together.

And what would you suggest when it’s off prime time and there are only 41 people on the map? Is the last person to join in forced to roam or be a rallybot for the other side?

Proposal: Anti-Stacking Debuf

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Posted by: Xavi.6591

Xavi.6591

It’s isn’t a very good idea. It punishes the 21st (or w/e the cutoff is) person.

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