Guild Wars 2

Problem:

WvW has no longer enough interested propulation to play competitive matches over 24/7 on 4 maps.
Real competition can only happen when teams have equal size, i.e. they have queue on all maps.
This is only the case for a few server during only a few hours of the week anymore.

Solution Proposal:

EB alone and 3 BLs together are setup as mega-server matches as current EotM already is. So we have all maps available for play 24/7 and the amout of copies of the maps depend on how many people want to play.

To enable competitive play and not only karma-train some of those matches are between teams that want competition.
The competition is based on a new kind of WvW-Guild (it operates like a guild, but every player can be in mostly one alliance and it’s stripped of all the PvE stufff and a player can be active in an alliance without having to change which guild he represents) called Alliance.

An alliance can have up to 1000 members, it has an alliance chat always visible to all alliance whenever they are logged into GW2 and haven’t deselected it in the chat-window.

Instead of last loggin (as for guilds) the member list shows amount of hours in (on map plus in queue) of last trainig and last competition match and if this is 0 which match the player last partcipated in.

New alliances can be build by anyone, it cost 10000 gems to do so. They start with 1500 glicko points, an alliance that falls below 1000 glicko points is dissolved.

Matches are played on either

• EB map (around 120 people per team),
• 3 BL maps (around 240 people per team), or
• EotM map (around 100 people per team)

Matches have a duration of 4 hours, on EB/BLs matches start with T2 (walls and doors already upgraded once), such that you loose something if you do not defend it and you have a chance to reach WPs during the short period of the match.

Each day has 6 slots a 4 hours (for EU I would recommend an alignment with 19:00-23:00 C(S)ET as a slot, no idea whats primetime for NA), and every alliance can register for every slot up to 1 week ahead. You can see how many alliances already registered for each slot. During registration you can distribute 6 bid-points for the 3 maps. You always play together as alliance when you registered for a match. If your opponents are registered alliances as well, you play a glicko-ranking-match, if at least one team is a random-team (as the number of alliances is not always devidable by 3) you only play a training match without influence on your ranking. An alliance which did not played a rank match during the week has a higher preference to be matched into one, than an alliance that already did. If your alliance did not played any ranking match during a week you loose 100 glicko-points. (If you are at 1500 and do not play for 5 weeks you are dissolved.)

So we have 3 types of matches:

• all three teams are registered alliances -> ranking match (map-bid points are addded over the 3 teams, the map with highest bid is selected)
• all three teams are mega-server-random-teams -> fun and 24/7 availability of WvW
• 1 mixed match, a training for the alliance, a chalange for the mega-server-random-team(s)

Ranking matches cost 100gems (or gold) registration, if you end in a mixed match you get them back. If you end in a ranking match the gems are refounded according to the result score. Each team gets as many % of the 300gems (or gold) it reaches % of the total score. (if scores are: 2500, 5000, 7500, the total is 15000 team 2 has 1/3 so it gets 100gems, team 1 has 1/6 so it get 50gems, team3 has 1/2 so it get 150gems). The main reason for this is: If you register but do not show up you loose your gems.

Advantages

• competitive matches are really competitive, i.e. they are balanced and there is motivation to get a high score, i.e. to win.
• competitive play is available as often and whenever your alliance wants it and is able to provide it.
• you can play 24/ on any map you like
• probably the maps determine the play-style, higher chance of karma train on EotM, higher chance of fights on EB/BLs even outside competition
• due to mega-server technology your chance to find friends and enemies all around the clock improves a lot as there are only as many maps as there are people want to play.
• Grief-play and hacking is dissolved in competitive matches, you can kick them from your alliance if you are a serious alliance, still every player can play mega-server WvW (there may be hacker-alliances, but thats something that only Game-Admins can resolve)

Or just merge servers? There isn’t even the naming issue since character and guild names are global in GW2.

It would be a slight PR hit, but it would do wonders for WvW and would have absolutely zero effect on PvE/sPvP.

That sure would be great. If you could see which matchups your friends and guilds are in and join them. Could make switching your home alliance cost like 100 gems, maybe 500, something more affordable anyways.

Or you know they could just… use guilds? Lol. Who cares about balance, it isn’t there now, sure as hell won’t exist ever. But I really like idea of every guild for his own… our 5-man guild raids will be glorious. :p

Oh and alliances = guild + guild + guild

Using guilds directly has some problems:

• People can be in more than one guild
• usually guilds aren’t large enough to fill even one map completely,
• guilds have a lot of unneeded PvE stuff
• not every guild want to play competitive WvW

Therefore I though something new but guild-like would be best.

The new expansion will change WvW, so I heard. At this point, we’ll just have to wait.

yanniell.1236:

The new expansion will change WvW, so I heard. At this point, we’ll just have to wait.

Interesting. Beside
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/preview-of-upcoming-balance-changes/
that says nothing about WvW, I just found
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upcoming_changes_and_features
but it only says about World versus World:

• Improving the commander functionality: Being discussed, but not being worked on yet
• Matchup information made available ahead of time is looked into, but complicated.

Dayra.7405:

Using guilds directly has some problems:

• People can be in more than one guild
• usually guilds aren’t large enough to fill even one map completely,
• guilds have a lot of unneeded PvE stuff
• not every guild want to play competitive WvW

Therefore I though something new but guild-like would be best.

And where did you hear that ?

The only thing WvW will get is new Com tag “Green”.
The End.

Really stop waisting your time and coming up ideas who wvw Anet won’t do anything. And whit this so called expansion (actuall LS3+feature patch) They will get new things to play in PVE. Raids and Guild hauls. That’s pretty much it for WvW.

Only thing you can hope for is more disappointment from ANet for WvW.

I did not heard anything.

Still I see a sense in expressing what I would like to play and I see a sense hearing what you as other players think about it, that’s why I posted it here. I also see more sense (and fun) in proposing a new WvW, that in wasting my time playing the current one.

Concerning ANet: If many player would express there interest and it is handable effort (and I think this proposal is handable effort, it’s only putting EB and BL’s under EotM match structure, and changing, who enters which match and which matches go to the leaderboard.) then they likely be happy to replace the current broken WvW (broken as it lost massive amount of player during 2014) with something playable.

anything at this point would be better than the 500k to 80k victories for the blob servers. This isn’t even remotely what WvW should be about. This is why we lose WvW players 24/7. I seriously don’t mind losing once in a while but when it has been like this for 2 solid months why even bother.

While I like some of the suggestions, I dislike making WvW into something like eotm.

Baratta.1083:

anything at this point would be better than the 500k to 80k victories for the blob servers. This isn’t even remotely what WvW should be about. This is why we lose WvW players 24/7. I seriously don’t mind losing once in a while but when it has been like this for 2 solid months why even bother.

You lose wvw players as it is exactly the same as it was when it came out, nothing has really changed, same meta, terrible rewards (killing one mob in Silverwastes gets you more rewards than defending a tower for 2 hours in wvw). After a while it just becomes totally stale, along with the complete lack of any dev input at all.

Maybe the OP should change their suggestion to ‘employ a wvw dev’, as that might be a good starting point.

Mishi.7058:

While I like some of the suggestions, I dislike making WvW into something like eotm.

I would rather see it as: Restrict the match to it’s most fun part: The reset evening

Dayra.7405:

yanniell.1236:

The new expansion will change WvW, so I heard. At this point, we’ll just have to wait.

Interesting. Beside
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/preview-of-upcoming-balance-changes/
that says nothing about WvW, I just found
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upcoming_changes_and_features
but it only says about World versus World:

• Improving the commander functionality: Being discussed, but not being worked on yet
• Matchup information made available ahead of time is looked into, but complicated.

It wasn’t officially announced yet, but they already registered the logo and stuff. If you search on the internet, you’ll know. Their profit expectation for the 3rd quarter is insane.

Dayra.7405:

yanniell.1236:

The new expansion will change WvW, so I heard. At this point, we’ll just have to wait.

Interesting. Beside
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/preview-of-upcoming-balance-changes/
that says nothing about WvW, I just found
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upcoming_changes_and_features
but it only says about World versus World:

• Improving the commander functionality: Being discussed, but not being worked on yet
• Matchup information made available ahead of time is looked into, but complicated.

I think he was referring to the Heart of Thorns expansion, which they will talk about this Saturday at PAX. Next week’s patch is indeed just a small balance pass.

Now I know there has been absolutely no information about if the expansion will bring anything significant to WvW, but we can of course hope. God knows WvW hasn’t been a priority for Anet since launch, but I believe they will have to give us something in the expansion. What that something is, I have no idea.

Still, I’m expecting breadcrumbs instead of a whole loaf, but anything is better than nothing.

There is of course also the question of paid/unpaid for the expansion. If we have to pay for the expansion, it simply cannot include anything in the paid package for WvW.

Is it a good idea to have WvW in an expansion?

I mean it will only further fraction the community, those with and those without expansion.

Dayra.7405:

Is it a good idea to have WvW in an expansion?

I mean it will only further fraction the community, those with and those without expansion.

As I said in my last paragraph, there is no way they can put any part of the WvW experience behind a paywall, except if you count new races/professions part of the WvW experience.

Anyway, we have no idea still how the expansion will even be monetized, nor what it will contain. Hopefully we will after the weekend.

I just want to see something. Nothing behind a paywall, but just…something. WvW hasnt evolved at all since release. Its staler than the 4 month old bread I have in my cupboard. Although I would be opposite to the OP thinking. I think one of the problems with it is that its too gamified already and trying to gamify it even more only makes things worse.

Right now WvW is nothing more than a bigger and longer sPvP match. Keeps and towers are just control points. I wish these actually mattered in WvW. It shouldnt be a matter of flipping towers for the tick. They should be hard to take. They should open dungeons with cool skin rewards…I dont know.

Just something more than the same old glorified sPvP maps and system we have today/ But my hopes are not high considering the lack of attention WvW gets from ANet.

Cogadh.1845:

I just want to see something. Nothing behind a paywall, but just…something. WvW hasnt evolved at all since release. Its staler than the 4 month old bread I have in my cupboard.

So many dishonest posters in the WvW area of the forums.

-They took out the water and added an entire new mechanic for points for spiking.

-They added righteous indignation to prevent flip spamming. Made multiple changes to it.

-Removed orbs from EB.

-Added WvW seasons.

-Added, restructured WvW trait lines.

-Ran tests for PPK

-Ran test for sword removal.

-Completely changed population cap per server map.

-Completely changed AoE cap to 5 due to massive community outcry.

-Completely changed boon buff cap due to massive community outcry

-Added different PIN colors.

-Added Art of war upgrades.

-Added siege razor to aid with under populated times on a server.

-Added new maps through edge of the mist due to massive community outcry

Please do not dishonestly claim that nothing has evolved. Lets offer the legitimate complaints, certainly, but the insane level of uneducated hyperbole around here is just insane.

xGraver.4918:

Dayra.7405:

Using guilds directly has some problems:

• People can be in more than one guild
• usually guilds aren’t large enough to fill even one map completely,
• guilds have a lot of unneeded PvE stuff
• not every guild want to play competitive WvW

Therefore I though something new but guild-like would be best.

And where did you hear that ?

The only thing WvW will get is new Com tag “Green”.
The End.

Really stop waisting your time and coming up ideas who wvw Anet won’t do anything. And whit this so called expansion (actuall LS3+feature patch) They will get new things to play in PVE. Raids and Guild hauls. That’s pretty much it for WvW.

Only thing you can hope for is more disappointment from ANet for WvW.

All true, but perhaps there is some dev or (dev-to-be) who will create a WvW-like game in the future. Just take all the suggestion threads in this forum as theoretical discussions. It might prevent some awesome future game from falling to the same fate as Anet’s WvW.

Also forgot they fixed the getting stuck on building site bugs.. Added siege names to the build sites to prevent troll siege from being built. Slimmed down ram build sites. Ohh and siege disablers

Tbh merging server etc won’t help in any way. One of the best features of WvW is the community of it. Alot of fun on TS, WvW guilds, Mapchat, sure the concept of WvW is fun, however it gets bored after a while if you don’t feel you have any connection to your server. why would you even bother scouting, upgrading, trebbing etc because you know it won’t reward you in any single way. Why would you even bother spending superiors/omega’s on keeps if you know it’s gone within 3 hours anyways, EotM has the exact same outcome.
I do agree that WvW is decreasing in numbers and the lower servers are definitely having problems bringing up enough people. It is however still possible to bring these servers back alive. Make WvW more interesting to non WvWers again, promote servertransfers to lower servers, for example no gems needed, get rid of megaserver LA and give people the chance to actually recruit on their home server.

The cause of this problem is primarily the servertransfer ability. If this option wasn’t available guilds wouldn’t have been able to abbandon their home server. PLZ don’t let the real WvW, the people that actually care about the server, burn by creating 3hr matchups and merging servers or the servers will probably die within a couple of months.

coglin.1867:

Cogadh.1845:

I just want to see something. Nothing behind a paywall, but just…something. WvW hasnt evolved at all since release. Its staler than the 4 month old bread I have in my cupboard.

So many dishonest posters in the WvW area of the forums.

-They took out the water and added an entire new mechanic for points for spiking.

-They added righteous indignation to prevent flip spamming. Made multiple changes to it.

-Removed orbs from EB.

-Added WvW seasons.

-Added, restructured WvW trait lines.

-Ran tests for PPK

-Ran test for sword removal.

-Completely changed population cap per server map.

-Completely changed AoE cap to 5 due to massive community outcry.

-Completely changed boon buff cap due to massive community outcry

-Added different PIN colors.

-Added Art of war upgrades.

-Added siege razor to aid with under populated times on a server.

-Added new maps through edge of the mist due to massive community outcry

Please do not dishonestly claim that nothing has evolved. Lets offer the legitimate complaints, certainly, but the insane level of uneducated hyperbole around here is just insane.

I didn’t say no work has been done. I said it hasn’t evolved and it seems your interpretation of the term is different to mine. Out of the list you posted, the only one I would consider anywhere close is the seasons. The rest are tweaks, small improvements/refinements etc (really, coloured tags as an example of the system evolving?)

So maybe try and fully understand first a persons point of view before throwing around accusations of dishonesty?

Colored tags? Certainly. For organized forces, they are very important. Sorry, I am not keen on redefining definitions to suit your accusations. Simply because you fell it is stale, does not mean nothing has evolved.

I mean, if you want to nit pick, you claim keeps and towers are irrelevant to the game mode, which is not true. (continuation of dishonesty) As they define the game mode, and controlling them very literally defines if you win or lose a match. You go on to demand the keeps open up to PvE dungeons. No thanks, we have those already. Guess where? in PvE……………

If your going to attempt to redefine words from their actual meaning, to one that supports your argument, then we could apply what I stated to your claim about the devs.

I do not need to understand your point of view. I simply need to understand what you said. If that doesn’t reflect your point of view, then you should articulate that better. The point it, I may not be entirely happy with WvW, but I am not incapable of giving credit where credit is due. There have been a great deal of changes that were beneficial to many people. You can claim and accuse otherwise all you like, it doesn’t make it less true.

“Competitive” WvW will never exist unless they force the size of servers to be the same and queue the rest. That’ll never happen though.

Just merging servers or whatever won’t do it. Even in high pop servers/brackets it’s still numbers & coverage > skill. PvD + outnumber or run tactics 24/7.

It’s the least balanced part of GW2 (also why it’s the least rewarding).

You want competitive, go to PvP.

coglin.1867:

you claim keeps and towers are irrelevant to the game mode

I never said that

You go on to demand the keeps open up to PvE dungeons.

Never demanded that

Your claim about the devs.

Never made any claim about the devs

If you’re going to accuse people of being dishonest, then maybe you should take a quick look in the mirror first? I get that you’re frustrated/annoyed about some of the opinions voiced overall, but I just get the feeling you’re reading what you want to read and are unwilling to actually try and understand what I’m getting at.

OP, I apologise for taking your thread a bit off track, so I’ll bow out. PM’s are there if needed

Cogadh.1845:

coglin.1867:

you claim keeps and towers are irrelevant to the game mode

I never said that

Cogadh.1845:

Keeps and towers are just control points. I wish these actually mattered in WvW

Here you claim they do not matter. So yes, you very literally DID say that.

Cogadh.1845:

coglin.1867:

You go on to demand the keeps open up to PvE dungeons.

Never demanded that

Cogadh.1845:

Keeps and towers …………………………………………………………………………………They should be hard to take. They should open dungeons with cool skin rewards…I dont know.

hmm, appears that is precisely what you said.

Cogadh.1845:

coglin.1867:

Your claim about the devs.

Never made any claim about the devs

Yeah, you did, then edited it out after getting called on it. Now it is gone, thank you.

Cogadh.1845:

If you’re going to accuse people of being dishonest, then maybe you should take a quick look in the mirror first?

Nope, but nice try. I am honest about what I do not like. I also have the decency to give credit where credit is due.

Cogadh.1845:

I get that you’re frustrated/annoyed about some of the opinions voiced overall, but I just get the feeling you’re reading what you want to read and are unwilling to actually try and understand what I’m getting at.

Not at all. The opinions do not frustrate me at all. Is is the disingenuous, misrepresentation, and dishonesty that draws my ire.

In a 4 hour match the scoring can be made very simple as well:

5 points for every objective and 5 points for every objective upgrade held at the end of the match.

You may ask, uh isn’t a fortress not much more worthy than a camp. In fact it is, as it is much easier to defend and therefore easier to have it highly upgraded at the end.
Also PPT is partially covered in this: The longer you keep something the more upgrades it will have.

Defense and offense will be very balanced, a raid to destroy enemie upgrades is very valuable, but is it worth losing the own upgrades?

What the game needs is peneltys, now its only karma train with like 5% off pop defending, if everyone on the map that did not help defend a upgraded building get a penelty if its lost then players would be more carful with defending key Buildings, the problem is you need some way to stop upgrades, maybe do so if a Guild claim a building its only that Guild that can upgrade and that Guild gain/lose more if building defended/lost.

If no one from that Guild is online on the map other Guild can clain building or simple lose the claim, then Arenanet also can make more Guild buffs that can be used on Buildings, like longer CD on siege, alarm system.

I see advantages but I don’t see disadvantages. Surely, every so-called solutions have their pros and cons. The point is, does your solution’s pros outweigh the cons?

The proven method of making WvW or War competitive is by making them matters, to do so, simply make it that if your server lose a matchup or even lose your garrison, your entire server will be penalised by it. However, guild wars 2 is carebear so yea, give it up. WvW will stay as it is.

Erased my wall of text and simply going to say to the dev’s, put the importance of a worlds into “World vs World” please? All the dev’s seem to do is reduce what a world can be or should be. The OP’s suggestion is essentially the end of world vs world. Thus this thread shouldn’t be labelled “WvW”.

Yeah since a while we are living in the United Nations of the mega server and left worldismn behind us.

Part 1:

WvW has to do some significant changes to improve itself: Heres my list of changes, that would be needed to make that game mode alot better:

1) Get away from the World v Word v World Concept of Servers and change WvW into “RvR” = Realm versus Realm.
Realms wouldn’t be just countless of servers anymore. Realms would be just 3 rotating Factions that fight each other in the Mists, and all Servers would get merged into 1 single pool of players, among which each single player gets rotated between those randomly.
However, the game tries to make all 3 Factions the equal size, so it can happen, that the game will put you into just a specific Faction, because of say Faction Red is already full to its maximum possible allowed size.Then the game will just put players to the other two Factions to fill them up.
With such a system it plays no role anymore, in which time zone you play or on which server you play.
The new WvW experience would give players the choice to get their accounts locked for the current match up’s Faction, so that you would stay for the whole Match Up in that Faction with the disadvantage, that you can’t play on WvW Maps, when its full (except EotM), or you don’t lock your Accoutn to the current match up Faction you have been put to the first time you log into WvW after a new Match starts and you will be randomly put to any Faction daily whenver you log in, which should be more interestign for those players, that have no interest in it for winning at any cost the matches, but rather play for fun/achievements ect.
Unless theres a tournament, then you will always stay locked on the Faction after your first login that has been chosen for you, until the tournament is over.

2) Improve the Siege Weapon Mechanics to work alot more like what you would expect from real Siege Weapons, rechargign range, placement ect. to stop the Siege Weapon Trolling, like what makes it for a sense to place a ram just somewhere in the open area or a Catapult directly in front of a gate or behind of it…
This Game Mode needs to become a better and more trustworthy War Simulation.

3) Improve/Change the WvW achievements so that they are all doable in a humans lifetime as an active WvW player that focues on this Game Mode.

4) Merge the WvW Traits into the new Mastery System, making out of them WvW masteries basically, with merged traits to make spece for new ones, also improve all of them to have 10 tiers and especially add WvW masteries, that signifianctly improve the defense in this game Mode, because currently only offense is everything, what counts there, bacause of defense being absolutely not rewarding at all. both, offense and defense need to be equal in gameplay and rewards in RvR!!

5) Add class specific Role Masteries based on “Specializations” so that every class in RvR feels special and is responsibly very good in something in RvR, like for example Elementalists being the only Class Line, that can deal significantly more Damage with their Skills against Gates and Walls with them beign the only Class, whose Skills can damage also Walls.
thiefs for example on the other hand are special in stealign and sabotaging Enemy Siege Weapons, and sneaking inside enemy territory passing through entries of keeps/gates, when in stealth, while spying enemies chat out (they are able to read, what people write in enemy chat when they are using their espionage skills).

Part 2:

6) Improve the A.I of all WvW Enemy NPCs and improve also their Skill Sets, no WvW Defender should be the same, they should all have different Skills Sets, so that fighting them feels each tiem different and challenging at best.

7) Merge the 3 Borderland Maps and make a complete new Snowland Borderland Map out of it of the Size of all 3 Maps together, so that the Snowland Borderland will be similar to the new Desertland Borderland that we will receive with HoT.
Then from that point on, Anet should add more new Borderland types for the rotation of the Borderland Maps, so that players will battle in each RvR Match Up everytime on a different Borderland Theme Map.
- Icy Tundra = Snow
- Desert of Despair = Sand
- Phantom Mist Lake = Grass Plains and Water
- Wrath of the Nature = Forest

for example of some rotational Borderland Map Names and their environmental Themes.

8) Implement some of the good sounding Stronghold Features into RvR, like recruitable “Heroes” that could used like moveable “Special Weapons” which could grant players on their way certain special buffs based on which Hero you sended out.
Basicaly a mechanic improvement of the WvW Commanders Siegerazer ect. or how they are named… just that those heroes aren’t limitated foronly into the Starter Zones Towers, but can be sent out anywhere to help claiming back something or help defending something. (there heroes would be of legendary rank high health, so harder to defeat, than those simple WvW Commanders that are Champions)

9) Add some more Siege Weapons, like for example different Siege Golem Versions, or Arballistas or some of the Asura/Charr Style Sieges (Mega Laser, Lightning Turrets, Sniper Rifles, Charr Tanks as a different form of a Siege Golem maneuverable slightly faster but not so powerful version of that, with lesser health, but more defense that is rather weak to conditions (burning) than to physican damage)

10) Add more Traps and make them in general more useful, together with map build in environmental traps (like stone falls, needles, fall traps ect. pp)

Now after seeing the trailer about the new borderlands, its nice to see, that alot of thigns are in the new map, that has found place in my list here today which I hoped are way, how anet will improve the general WvW.

points 6, 7, 9 and 10 (Alpine Borderland< that was the word I was searching for lol ..Snowland xD – / Desert Borderland replaces it most likely, until Anet has the time to rework the Alpine Borderland for the Rotation to start and to add more Borderland Themes in the future) will be found all in the new map

I’m very pleased with that ratio ^^ Hopefully the other points will come somewhen later too to clear the other issues of WvW, that most likely are simply too much to get solved all with just HoT alone and need more changes and finetunings ect. later with upcoming Feature Packs for example.

Given the actual discussion in the https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/EotM-has-outlived-its-usefulness thread maybe its time to remember this proposal

Of course now with the new borderlands as well.

The big advantage of EotM game mode (not map) is more urgently needed than ever:
Adaptation of the number of maps to the number of players that want to play instead of 9×4 (EU) plus 8×4 (NA) empty maps.

Yes! Even old WvWers start to admit that the megaserver based EoTM is more fun than the new borderlands atm.

These forums have had some great suggestions in the past, but most of them have been totally ignored. I really hope Arenanet doesn’t pick ideas from this thread.

WvWvW won’t get better by waiting yet another year for new “Alpine” border, which is full of gimmicks and bugs like the existing Desert borderland. EotM / Dry Top / Desert BL style of design may work for a pve deungeon, but it doesn’t work well for WvWvW as it has been already discussed in countless of threads.

I still utterly despite EotM. If all of WvWvW is replaced with EotM, then time to stop playing this. Pve would benefit from smarter NPCs, but WvWvW doesn’t need them. The focus should be on allowing both solo play and cater epic large scale fights, human players vs human players.

What we need is the original Alpine borderland back + upgrade system which requires human interaction. KISS = Keep It Simple, Stupid. LGMF = Less Gimmicks, More Fun

I still think that this is the most promising idea to get both:
- availability of WvW with filled maps 24/7
- competitive matches in WvW-mode.

Competition of course cannot be 24/7, no one was ever able to fill maps 24/7 so matches were always decided at times with the fewest players. And with the today player numbers 24/7 competition is completely meaninless.

Maybe for EU:
- assign all german to one side
- assign all french + spanish to a second side
- fill-up the matches generated by german+french/spanish player with EU (english) players as third side
- make EUvsEUvsEU matches, when more EU-player want to play than fit as third side in the national matches.
- Extend the WvW-API for EotM, such that the results matter more as they become visible to the outside.

Turning WvW into EotM 2 is an awful idea.

Yes it would mean there were more people on the maps but the idea that WvW is only any good when all the maps are queued is just wrong. I know of many players, myself included, who have had a lot of fun in smaller groups on a map that isn’t queued.

If you want to play EotM then why not go and do so. Campaign for the WvW maps to be added to EotM if you want that style of play and leave the server based system for those of us who don’t believe everything is about big blobs.

There are many players still in the lower tiers who could have transferred and chose not to. For many this is because they prefer smaller group game play. We don’t try to force the zerg fans to play WvW the way we like it so please show us the same respect.

Yuffi.2430:

Turning WvW into EotM 2 is an awful idea.

It’s not my intention to turn WvW into EotM 2. I don’t like the endless EotM PvD-train.
In fact one of the reason of this proposals is: I want less PvD in WvW and I especially hate that WvW-matches are decided by PvD (aka night/day/offtime-capping).

I want full maps, because full maps are currently the only state where all teams are balanced, i.e. have the same man-power.

I am neither zerg-fan nor do I believe that the map-blob is an effective form of winning a match. Also in EU-gold not everyone is in the mono-blob, some servers more, some less, but beside the public zergs you also find a lot guild-raids (5-25, most often 10-15), disturb-groups of 2-5 and solo dueller.

Yuffi.2430:

There are many players still in the lower tiers who could have transferred and chose not to. For many this is because they prefer smaller group game play.

So would a BL-20 or EB-30 (maximum number of players on the map is 20/30) map be your choice?

Let us think why EotM is as EotM is and why WvW is (or was) like WvW is (was).

Different interests of the players. Players go to EotM/WvW for many different reasons:

• karma-train fans, they found their paradise in EotM
• WvW-competition fan, they lost their paradise and are dying out in GW2.
• GvG fans, they have no paradise, in EotM the map-design and the difficulty of bringing people to the same map hinders them, in WvW limited opponents (we want to fight this guild but never matched against their server) and at least in the past the “you don’t do anything for the server”-blame.
• small-scale fighter

If these would be just mixed together in EotM without any choice the result would be bad, I totally agree with you.

But I think when you can choose which map you go conventions can be established.

• karama-trains choose the EotM map
• guild groups the old borderlands
• …

Additionally the system allows competitive 4 hours matches as often as you like and find opponents.

Thanks Dayra – I agree that players would need some form of choice, and I think you’ve analysed it well. The question would be whether players would create and honour conventions for different map instances. This may be doubtful since we could, if we agreed, solve all the population issues that we as players have created. However if it works it would be fine.

I’m still uncomfortable with megaserver as a concept for WvW because it would need to be very different to what we see used at the moment. I also quite like the week long match ups because everyone has a chance to contribute whenever they play during the week, but a four hour cycle wouldn’t make me quit