Guild Wars 2

mango.9267:

coglin.1867:

I lo e the way every one keeps crying “blobbing” and crying “night capping” as some conjured argument against removing white swords. Yet every other thread before white swords were removed, was complaints about large blobs night capping. All of the sudden, you actually expect people to take those excuses serioisly?

People aren’t complaining that there are suddenly blobs or night caps. People are complaining that removing white swords promotes both of these things and makes them more effective, which is the opposite of what Anet should have done.

No, people are attempting to suggest that these things night capping or blobs are evidence that removing white swords is a problem. I have yet to see anyone provide any evidence that night capping scores are higher then they were before the change. Nor has anyone provided any evidence that blobs are any larger.

Neither are more effective, they are less effective.

coglin.1867:

mango.9267:

coglin.1867:

I lo e the way every one keeps crying “blobbing” and crying “night capping” as some conjured argument against removing white swords. Yet every other thread before white swords were removed, was complaints about large blobs night capping. All of the sudden, you actually expect people to take those excuses serioisly?

People aren’t complaining that there are suddenly blobs or night caps. People are complaining that removing white swords promotes both of these things and makes them more effective, which is the opposite of what Anet should have done.

No, people are attempting to suggest that these things night capping or blobs are evidence that removing white swords is a problem. I have yet to see anyone provide any evidence that night capping scores are higher then they were before the change. Nor has anyone provided any evidence that blobs are any larger.

Neither are more effective, they are less effective.

You can look at the T3 NA matchup if you want evidence. The largest server is winning by a much larger margin this week than they were last week. We’re talking 50k more points right now than this same time last week, against the same two servers. And no, that’s not from PPK, since our guilds are barely rallying anymore, and roamers can hardly even find each other.

The problem is as I and many others have described. The outnumbered server, especially during offhours, either (A) has to spread itself too thin scouting and therefore be unable to defend their structures against the blob or (B) has to pull everyone together to defend their structures from the blob and therefore lack the scouts to save their other structures. Especially during offhours, the outnumbered server lacks the numbers to do both, while the largest server can. This makes the issue of blobbing and nightcapping even worse. This problem is compounded by the fact that the outnumbered servers don’t have waypoints, while the largest server does, giving the largest server free map scouts on their keeps.

The outnumbered server could just give up on defending altogether to try to ninja some of the largest server’s structures and just backcap their own BL after the nightcap ends. However, that’s basically an EotM playstyle, where you’re just PvDooring, K-training, not-defending, and avoiding enemy players.

coglin.1867:

mango.9267:

coglin.1867:

I lo e the way every one keeps crying “blobbing” and crying “night capping” as some conjured argument against removing white swords. Yet every other thread before white swords were removed, was complaints about large blobs night capping. All of the sudden, you actually expect people to take those excuses serioisly?

People aren’t complaining that there are suddenly blobs or night caps. People are complaining that removing white swords promotes both of these things and makes them more effective, which is the opposite of what Anet should have done.

No, people are attempting to suggest that these things night capping or blobs are evidence that removing white swords is a problem. I have yet to see anyone provide any evidence that night capping scores are higher then they were before the change. Nor has anyone provided any evidence that blobs are any larger.

Neither are more effective, they are less effective.

You sit here and say we have no evidence? And ironically… I have yet to see any evidence to support your argument/claims, which makes your entire post laughable at best.

MomentofWeakness.1246:

coglin.1867:

mango.9267:

coglin.1867:

I lo e the way every one keeps crying “blobbing” and crying “night capping” as some conjured argument against removing white swords. Yet every other thread before white swords were removed, was complaints about large blobs night capping. All of the sudden, you actually expect people to take those excuses serioisly?

People aren’t complaining that there are suddenly blobs or night caps. People are complaining that removing white swords promotes both of these things and makes them more effective, which is the opposite of what Anet should have done.

No, people are attempting to suggest that these things night capping or blobs are evidence that removing white swords is a problem. I have yet to see anyone provide any evidence that night capping scores are higher then they were before the change. Nor has anyone provided any evidence that blobs are any larger.

Neither are more effective, they are less effective.

You sit here and say we have no evidence? And ironically… I have yet to see any evidence to support your argument/claims, which makes your entire post laughable at best.

What argument has he made other then suggesting that your making direct claims, "statements*, and accusations with no reasonable evidence? I see one side making claims and stating them as fact, and the other is arguing your so called evidence, itself.

The best part, is that your using the exact same complaints that existed for well over a year, as your so called evidence. The fact seems to be condemning evidence against you in my opinion.

I don’t see that at all. What he wrote a month ago actually turned out to be true. Yes, he wrote it before the change went in, but he doesn’t need to reiterate what he already said if it’s actually what’s happening.

dancingmonkey.4902:

MomentofWeakness.1246:

coglin.1867:

mango.9267:

coglin.1867:

I lo e the way every one keeps crying “blobbing” and crying “night capping” as some conjured argument against removing white swords. Yet every other thread before white swords were removed, was complaints about large blobs night capping. All of the sudden, you actually expect people to take those excuses serioisly?

People aren’t complaining that there are suddenly blobs or night caps. People are complaining that removing white swords promotes both of these things and makes them more effective, which is the opposite of what Anet should have done.

No, people are attempting to suggest that these things night capping or blobs are evidence that removing white swords is a problem. I have yet to see anyone provide any evidence that night capping scores are higher then they were before the change. Nor has anyone provided any evidence that blobs are any larger.

Neither are more effective, they are less effective.

You sit here and say we have no evidence? And ironically… I have yet to see any evidence to support your argument/claims, which makes your entire post laughable at best.

What argument has he made other then suggesting that your making direct claims, "statements*, and accusations with no reasonable evidence? I see one side making claims and stating them as fact, and the other is arguing your so called evidence, itself.

The best part, is that your using the exact same complaints that existed for well over a year, as your so called evidence. The fact seems to be condemning evidence against you in my opinion.

Are you kidding me? What evidence could I have used? I wrote my post a month ago before the change came into effect. I was giving my hypothesis on how white swords would affect the WvW game-mode. Call it foreshadowing if you will. How I qualified my claims was based on my experiences (which is something I highlighted in my original message, that my argument was based on my 5000+ hours of play time and almost two years of commanding) and what I believed to be the probable outcome of removing white swords, once the change occurred. There was no evidence for me to use. Next time, try and rely on some common sense instead of making misguided comments, I clearly stated where I was coming from and on what basis I was making my claims. It’s not my fault you didn’t pay attention to that.

NOTE*: I didn’t mention the 5,000+ hours of play time but I did mention that I have had an extensive amount of time commanding (almost two years).

Why do I prefer to defend? Simple, it presents a challenge. Anyone with half a brain cell can run in a zerg with few golems and dominate a map with 0 skill involved. Brute force and sheer weight of numbers will almost always win over skill, no matter how good you are.

If that is the way Anet want WvW to go, then they are doing it right, pandering to the lowest common demoninator. Any experienced WvW player knows how and where to assault each tower and keep and any good defender knows where to look for these assaults and plan their defences accordingly.

In theory it should become a game of strategy between defenders and attackers, a battle of wits and some skill but it’s not and the way it is going, never will be.

The game is so weighted in favour of the attackers as to make defending a pointless and soul destroying exercise, even for the most dedicated defender.

The sheer cost in both time and gold to upgrade a tower/keep coupled with the total lack of reward for doing so is what is driving people out of WvW. Running with a zerg may be fun………for a short while, but it gets old, quickly, unless of course, you are brain dead.

This game was promoted as being FUN and about allowing people to play it the way they wanted to and that is not the case. Where is the “Fun” in spending 5-8 hours and several gold upgrading and siegeing a Garrison only to see all those efforts wiped out in minutes by a mindless blob?

EotM was the ideal setting for the blob mind so why turn WvW into the same thing? Sure, dedicated defenders may only make up a small percentage of the population but they still deserve to be able to play the game their way along with everyone else.

Rather than remove the ‘white swords’ which is universally hated, why not doing something really dramatic to gauge the state of WvW, like, remove the PPT score? While you are at it, level the playing field between defence and attack by drastically reducing the cost/time for upgrades.

The arguments against making defence more player friendly because it encourages people to hide in towers/keeps are invalid simply because the majority of players do actually want to fight each other and if that is the way Anet wants to go, then take out all the towers and leave 1 fully upgraded Garrison on each map for the defenders to play their game and leave a huge empty space for the zergs, blobs and roamers. Give some of us who like to use our brains occasionally an opportunity to do so.

Good post, tich. Furthermore, I think that if they do still want people on defense, want people to actively scout and such, it needs to be more rewarding (not that this has been said many times before even when there were white swords). Many of us defenders spend a lot of time, effort, and gold on upgrades, siege, refreshing that siege, and downright boredom protecting our objectives, and we get absolutely nothing from it aside from the occasional bag and WXP from a scout kill or a pitiful defense bonus from successfully defending something after the 3 minute timer pops.

It really does seem like Anet is going the way of “ktrain moar plz” with their attitude towards wvw lately. I’m not even sure they care about defense.

lol. Who plays WvW for ppt? Go play Risk if you want an objective based game.
Stop worrying about White Swords n stuff. Hit up your closest Enemy Commander. Ask for some fights. Fight said fights. ENJOY GUILD WARS 2. Revel in the lag, loot bags and the feeling of power over said enemy commander when you /sit on his/her corpse.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Just a friendly note that the conversation in this thread has gotten a tad heated. Big surprise, I know.

Please feel free to discuss, even disagree. Just avoid being truly disagreeable.

Thanks.

Will Anet interact on this post or any others in response to the large volume of posts regarding “removing white swords” from the WvW game-mode for development purposes?

When are we doing the “Communicating With You” CDI for the WvW game-mode Gaile Gray?

Happy Holidays.

Gotta say I kinda like this setup. Im a solo roamer. Normally that meant id flip a camp once every 9-10 minutes or so and spend the rest of the time getting away from group roamers. It wasn’t terribly exciting.

Now however i’ve probably stopped over a dozen heavy pushes onto keeps and t3 towers since this change. Simply changing my normal path to get me close enough to towers to LISTEN for siege. The audio ques make stopping “sneak attacks” really easy if anyone is paying attention or even in the area.

mango.9267:

coglin.1867:

mango.9267:

coglin.1867:

I lo e the way every one keeps crying “blobbing” and crying “night capping” as some conjured argument against removing white swords. Yet every other thread before white swords were removed, was complaints about large blobs night capping. All of the sudden, you actually expect people to take those excuses serioisly?

People aren’t complaining that there are suddenly blobs or night caps. People are complaining that removing white swords promotes both of these things and makes them more effective, which is the opposite of what Anet should have done.

No, people are attempting to suggest that these things night capping or blobs are evidence that removing white swords is a problem. I have yet to see anyone provide any evidence that night capping scores are higher then they were before the change. Nor has anyone provided any evidence that blobs are any larger.

Neither are more effective, they are less effective.

You can look at the T3 NA matchup if you want evidence. The largest server is winning by a much larger margin this week than they were last week. We’re talking 50k more points right now than this same time last week, against the same two servers. And no, that’s not from PPK, since our guilds are barely rallying anymore, and roamers can hardly even find each other.

The problem is as I and many others have described. The outnumbered server, especially during offhours, either (A) has to spread itself too thin scouting and therefore be unable to defend their structures against the blob or (B) has to pull everyone together to defend their structures from the blob and therefore lack the scouts to save their other structures. Especially during offhours, the outnumbered server lacks the numbers to do both, while the largest server can. This makes the issue of blobbing and nightcapping even worse. This problem is compounded by the fact that the outnumbered servers don’t have waypoints, while the largest server does, giving the largest server free map scouts on their keeps.

The outnumbered server could just give up on defending altogether to try to ninja some of the largest server’s structures and just backcap their own BL after the nightcap ends. However, that’s basically an EotM playstyle, where you’re just PvDooring, K-training, not-defending, and avoiding enemy players.

I’m in the same matchup (NSP: the other small server) and can confirm.

Everything is perpetually paper. Only the big server (DB) has WPs which gives an even bigger advantage than before as they don’t need scouts for those towers.

(By the way, the old strategy of continually contesting WPs doesn’t work as well now because you can’t tell when a keep is already contested.)

Right up to primetime, it’s full karma train (as in all towers including EB keep flips every 5-10 minutes).

Last week I recall we had maybe two WPs (EB, BL), T3 towers (around three) at this time… same with IoJ. Everything paper this week.

It’s a total fail event. After three more weeks of this, I wonder how many people will even be left — even karma trainers will eventually move to EotM where the train is much more profitable.

I fully expect removal of white swords to be permanent.

I think the reason for the implementation of the sneak attack thing was to test what effect it would have on WvW as a whole.

I don’t think you’ve given it enough time to truly appreciate what can and will happen as a result. Personally, I couldn’t be bothered. Assaulting towers isn’t something I generally do, and most diligent commanders can watch the map to expect where an enemy zerg is going. If a sentry is flipped or killed, it means something is coming in that direction and you send a scout. White swords already popped up 30 seconds after the beginning of an assault, which is about as much warning as watching sentries would give :/ At the moment, I think most commanders and map watchers haven’t figured that out.

On the other hand, points per kill is amazing. Punish the bad zergs that get rolled over and over. Maybe consider removing orange swords altogether to see what happens ^.^

I still think this event is the best what happened after culling removal. Keep this and add more and more things every months!
Add some rewards for badges and i will be happy

PPK would be truly great with a higher or no AoE cap!

Remove or increase the AoE cap would change the entire dynamics of WvW. Instead of stacking, commanders would say “spread!”. Would be an awesome and interesting change.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I didn’t know what the team had in mind as far as responding to the input about the whole “Sneak Attack” event, so I casually hung around outside a conference room and nabbbed a word with John Corpening when he came out.

The event lasts for one month, and the team is playing a lot to experiment with the trial systems, just as players are doing. There’s been a lot of feedback — both before the event started and now, during the actual event. The team is going to review the feedback and engage in some forum discussions about it towards the end of the event.

I believe Sneak Attack ends around January 13, so be looking for dev posts around that date.

Looking forward to the discussions, thanks!

yanniell.1236:

Remove or increase the AoE cap would change the entire dynamics of WvW. Instead of stacking, commanders would say “spread!”. Would be an awesome and interesting change.

If you take away the AoE cap, then you have to remove the CD cap…and of course, the AoE Boon cap.

It is preferable that they leave the system as it is now, unless you want to play at 1fps in WvW or PvE.

gennyt.3428:

PPK would be truly great with a higher or no AoE cap!

yanniell.1236:

Remove or increase the AoE cap would change the entire dynamics of WvW. Instead of stacking, commanders would say “spread!”. Would be an awesome and interesting change.

I agree! Make this the next WvW experiment. xD

Lukhas.1962:

yanniell.1236:

Remove or increase the AoE cap would change the entire dynamics of WvW. Instead of stacking, commanders would say “spread!”. Would be an awesome and interesting change.

If you take away the AoE cap, then you have to remove the CD cap…and of course, the AoE Boon cap.

It is preferable that they leave the system as it is now, unless you want to play at 1fps in WvW or PvE.

Ehmm there was no AoE cap before and the game ran fine. The AoE cap came in a couple of months after game launched.

Sirendor.1394:

gennyt.3428:

PPK would be truly great with a higher or no AoE cap!

yanniell.1236:

Remove or increase the AoE cap would change the entire dynamics of WvW. Instead of stacking, commanders would say “spread!”. Would be an awesome and interesting change.

I agree! Make this the next WvW experiment. xD

Excellent ideia! And if they can’t remove the cap altogether, maybe increase it to 20~25.

That’d be an exciting experiment.

Melanion.4892:

I think the reason for the implementation of the sneak attack thing was to test what effect it would have on WvW as a whole.

I don’t think you’ve given it enough time to truly appreciate what can and will happen as a result. Personally, I couldn’t be bothered. Assaulting towers isn’t something I generally do, and most diligent commanders can watch the map to expect where an enemy zerg is going. If a sentry is flipped or killed, it means something is coming in that direction and you send a scout. White swords already popped up 30 seconds after the beginning of an assault, which is about as much warning as watching sentries would give :/ At the moment, I think most commanders and map watchers haven’t figured that out.

On the other hand, points per kill is amazing. Punish the bad zergs that get rolled over and over. Maybe consider removing orange swords altogether to see what happens ^.^

Who on earth have you been playing with/against? Smart commanders and players know to avoid sentries so as not to even trigger their movement to alert anyone with their M key open. It’s extremely common.

Im kinda suprised theres this many servers that don’t use player scouts. I know for a fact that there are commanders that even pay gold to dedicated scouts that stay around for a long time.

For the lower population servers I can understand that. But even then there are ways to catch “sneak attacks” audio ques being a big one.

To take that a step further Id love for towers to how a “warhorn” alert the npcs could blast when the area is under attack that plays a loud audio for any players in that quarter of the map. Would make more sense than the magical swords htat somehow get plastered on everyone’s map simultaneously.

Shadelang.3012:

Im kinda suprised theres this many servers that don’t use player scouts. I know for a fact that there are commanders that even pay gold to dedicated scouts that stay around for a long time.

For the lower population servers I can understand that. But even then there are ways to catch “sneak attacks” audio ques being a big one.

To take that a step further Id love for towers to how a “warhorn” alert the npcs could blast when the area is under attack that plays a loud audio for any players in that quarter of the map. Would make more sense than the magical swords htat somehow get plastered on everyone’s map simultaneously.

That’s kind of a cool idea actually. I mean, I like white swords and all, and some people have brought up the reason why they don’t is that it’s immersion breaking, but why not look to what they did in the Silverwastes with signal fires, air strikes, etc? Throw up a signal flare that you can see from within reasonable viewing distance if a structure is under attack. Allow us to order upgrades to call in air support to delay a zerg attack. Give us interesting mechanics like what was done in the Silverwastes and I think the game would be better for it.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I didn’t know what the team had in mind as far as responding to the input about the whole “Sneak Attack” event, so I casually hung around outside a conference room and nabbbed a word with John Corpening when he came out.

The event lasts for one month, and the team is playing a lot to experiment with the trial systems, just as players are doing. There’s been a lot of feedback — both before the event started and now, during the actual event. The team is going to review the feedback and engage in some forum discussions about it towards the end of the event.

I believe Sneak Attack ends around January 13, so be looking for dev posts around that date.

We appreciate the team be willing to add tweaks to the gameplay. I hope you take the feedback and perhaps consider options that encourage players to fight against the odds. In fact, call it that “Against All Odds”.

yanniell.1236:

Sirendor.1394:

gennyt.3428:

PPK would be truly great with a higher or no AoE cap!

yanniell.1236:

Remove or increase the AoE cap would change the entire dynamics of WvW. Instead of stacking, commanders would say “spread!”. Would be an awesome and interesting change.

I agree! Make this the next WvW experiment. xD

Excellent ideia! And if they can’t remove the cap altogether, maybe increase it to 20~25.

That’d be an exciting experiment.

Where have you guys been? The AoE cap was implemented because before it was an utter disaster.

This idea only favors a few builds/weapon sets and leaves everyone else in the wind.

funassistant.6589:

lol. Who plays WvW for ppt? Go play Risk if you want an objective based game.
Stop worrying about White Swords n stuff. Hit up your closest Enemy Commander. Ask for some fights. Fight said fights. ENJOY GUILD WARS 2. Revel in the lag, loot bags and the feeling of power over said enemy commander when you /sit on his/her corpse.

If you don’t play for PPT at all, there is a great map for you called EotM. Try it.

As for WvW, it is, and always has been, a combination of PPT, open field fights, and small roaming groups.

Shadelang.3012:

Im kinda suprised theres this many servers that don’t use player scouts. …

Somebody else has already made a video that explains this better (and more entertainingly) than I ever could. There was a really great Reddit thread about that video, too.

But to waste words on what a funny video does better, what the heck good does scouting do? Under current rules, either you roaming scout, or you tower-sit. If you roaming-scout, you’re wasting your time; 9 to 1 odds they’ll have the tower flipped before you even get in. If you tower-sit, you’ll get to fire your one superior arrow cart in support of the upgraded guards, and neither your arrow cart, nor the upgraded guards, will make a lick of difference. You spent all that money and wasted all that time just to feed them two more PvE bags and one more PvP bag. Unless a friendly zerg happens to be running by, in which case the tower might be saved … but not because of anything you did.

There are two big-picture questions that aren’t even being asked by ArenaNet, at least not where I hear it, let alone discussed:

1. Take the maximum number of players from one side who can enter a map, because that’s your worst-case scenario. How long should it take for them to flip a camp? a tower? a keep? the castle? What’s the minimum reasonable time we should allow for defenders to reach the objective and defend it?

2. Take the maximum number of players from one side who can enter a map, because, again, that’s your worst-case scenario. How many defenders should need to be inside it to keep them from over-running it? What’s the ratio?

Back in Warhammer: Age of Reckoning, there were people who thought it was really lame that a team of 6 could hold off a team of 18 indefinitely at a keep. (Gods, I loved that fight.) They didn’t want the objective spots to be anything more than speed bumps, they wanted plain king-of-the-hill like most capture sPvP maps in this game. Others of us argued (successfully) that since the attacker gets to pick the time of the fight, the defender needs an advantage of their own.

But right now, as easy as it is for a large group to swarm an out-manned tower or keep? Scouting is entirely pointless.

I have been playing against servers who’s tactic is to have one huge group of players who always run together following one commander. Scouts are the most important part of this tactic. My server usually has 3 groups of 20 players or so in one border and they all hit a different objective at the same time. If the objective doesnt have a scout we flip it. If it does the scout can siege disable + ac us until the big group arrives and forces us to flee. Usually they have scouts and we lose.

Without scouts that tactic would never work. It didnt work without scouts even before white sword removal either for towers or paper keeps.

Scouts arr super important.

coglin.1867:

yanniell.1236:

Sirendor.1394:

gennyt.3428:

PPK would be truly great with a higher or no AoE cap!

yanniell.1236:

Remove or increase the AoE cap would change the entire dynamics of WvW. Instead of stacking, commanders would say “spread!”. Would be an awesome and interesting change.

I agree! Make this the next WvW experiment. xD

Excellent ideia! And if they can’t remove the cap altogether, maybe increase it to 20~25.

That’d be an exciting experiment.

Where have you guys been? The AoE cap was implemented because before it was an utter disaster.

This idea only favors a few builds/weapon sets and leaves everyone else in the wind.

And how is it today with GWEN?

Sirendor.1394:

Lukhas.1962:

yanniell.1236:

Remove or increase the AoE cap would change the entire dynamics of WvW. Instead of stacking, commanders would say “spread!”. Would be an awesome and interesting change.

If you take away the AoE cap, then you have to remove the CD cap…and of course, the AoE Boon cap.

It is preferable that they leave the system as it is now, unless you want to play at 1fps in WvW or PvE.

Ehmm there was no AoE cap before and the game ran fine. The AoE cap came in a couple of months after game launched.

yanniell.1236:

Excellent ideia! And if they can’t remove the cap altogether, maybe increase it to 20~25.

That’d be an exciting experiment.

Guise, please!

AOE target cap was put in to reduce WvW lag, and was not for damage balance reasons. Later, balance changes took the target counts into consideration.

Even if “the game ran fine” for you in those first months, it didn’t for others, and there was data to back that up. In some cases, there were special circumstances involved, such as map-queued 1v1v1 in Stonemist lord room. We still get instances of skill lag in those fights. It happened to NA Tier 2 last night.

Raising AOE target cap, at last dev response to the topic, still can’t be done. Technical limitation. Sorry!

:(

Well, maybe it was a limitation back then, but a lot has changed since then.

Don’t hurt to ask, and the experiment could be nice. A change of air would be welcome.

Virtute.8251:

AOE target cap was put in to reduce WvW lag, and was not for damage balance reasons. Later, balance changes took the target counts into consideration.

That is absolutely false.

Virtute.8251:

Raising AOE target cap, at last dev response to the topic, still can’t be done. Technical limitation. Sorry!

Please link this dev post please. As I played this game when the limit was higher, I have no idea where your getting this “information”.

I dont know why everyone is wanting to bring back the AoE cap. If we changed WvW back to a “no AoE cap system” it would completely fracture current WvW balance. I feel as WvW players we should be pressing Anet to address the greater overarching issues with the game mode such as: quality of life improvements, dealing with the coverage gap issue, providing incentives to NOT blob, making WvW more profitable, the list goes on…

When we consider changes for WvW we as a community should be considering how our requests affect every kind of WvW player (the roamer, the havoc group, the guild group, the PPT’er, the PPK’er, the zergling, the commander, and the person who does all of the above). From casual to enthusiast to hardcore (competitive) WvW player we should appreciate that everyone plays this game in a different capacity and that our requests to change the games design (relative to WvW and relative to server tier) should not only benefit our play style but also the play style of others.

The reason I created this thread was to illustrate that yes, while in some capacities the white-swords removal has benefits, in many areas it does not and I already argued (in my first 3 posts) why there are MORE CONS than pros to removing white-swords.

Although this thread only addresses the white-swords removal, and my stance on the change BEFORE it happened (1 month ago), my goal really is for us as WvW players and as a community (amongst all servers) who enjoy the game mode to really consider how we address issues surrounding WvW. In different ways, we all want to improve the game mode and see it prosper. Hopefully people who share different viewpoints on “how the game should be played” realize that you can approach WvW from a variety of ways and all play styles deserve to be appreciated and respected for the WvW game mode to succeed.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Virtute.8251:

AOE target cap was put in to reduce WvW lag, and was not for damage balance reasons. Later, balance changes took the target counts into consideration.

That is absolutely false.

Virtute.8251:

Raising AOE target cap, at last dev response to the topic, still can’t be done. Technical limitation. Sorry!

Please link this dev post please. As I played this game when the limit was higher, I have no idea where your getting this “information”.

I would do, but recent changes to the forum have broken most of Google’s links for the search results, and the forum’s own search has always been broken. With that, I can only say that I distinctly remember a red post making the “technical limitation” argument against the topic. I believe it was this year. That said, different devs say different things at different times, and playing the game since release doesn’t mean reading every forum thread since release.