Guild Wars 2

Krimpton.4879:

Is it hard to take out 15 people camping a spot from a tactically superior position? Yes, it is. Is it impossible? No. I understand not wanting to PvP. What I don’t understand is wanting the rules changed so that you can get an accomplishment that other folks had to work a lot harder for.

Sorry but incorrect…

Because when 90% of the server got that achievment there wasnt 15 people camped at the top of the jumping puzzle with arrow carts etc to shoot you off it…

It doesnt make the game ’’fun’’ or enjoyable when you have to sit up until 2 am in the morning when there is no one else around before you can go and do something..

THAT ISN’T A FUN GAME

You don’t have to sit up till 2am to do anything. If it’s not fun, don’t do it.

Elthurien.8356:

Krimpton.4879:

Is it hard to take out 15 people camping a spot from a tactically superior position? Yes, it is. Is it impossible? No. I understand not wanting to PvP. What I don’t understand is wanting the rules changed so that you can get an accomplishment that other folks had to work a lot harder for.

Sorry but incorrect…

Because when 90% of the server got that achievment there wasnt 15 people camped at the top of the jumping puzzle with arrow carts etc to shoot you off it…

It doesnt make the game ’’fun’’ or enjoyable when you have to sit up until 2 am in the morning when there is no one else around before you can go and do something..

THAT ISN’T A FUN GAME

You don’t have to sit up till 2am to do anything. If it’s not fun, don’t do it.

Please read all post before posting…

What i am saying is….

I like to explore things… I like to adventure….. I dont like pvp..

I want 100% map completion {98% now}
That will be a great achievment in the game for me…

So as i have asked Arenanet in other posts i have made. WHY are they excluding those of us that dont like pvp… have no interest in doing it, and never will have any interest in doing it… WHY are they putting content to make 100% map completion in a pvp area…

That is why i am saying it isnt fun anymore trying for 100% map completion because to do what i wish to achieve, I HAVE TO STAY UP UNTIL 2 AM IN THE MORNING..
To avoid the pvp’ers..

That isnt fun

I have yet to see a valid reason why map completion should be a purely pve thing.

PvP involves maps too.

If you choose to play only part of the game then you have no right to complain about not reaching 100% completion.

100% Map completion is exactly that, 100% map completion.

Those of you who hate PvP, remember there are PvP players who dislike PvE and will have to do a MAJOR amount more than you, to get the 100% map completion.

did you ever think of bringing a group of players to deal with the guards? geez.

How about the people waiting in queue that actually want to play WvW but 20 slots are trapped by people like you wasting 4 hours trying to do a jumping puzzle, sorry but you get no sympathy from me.

forced, forced, I play mostly WvW, should I complain that for 100% i need to go into the PvE area?

I have all 4 maps in WvW at 100% now, and I didn’t even try hard, just played regular WvW and sometimes making a little detour (with one big run to finish the last 10% as our world happen to own the entire map).

Then again, I’m not much of a 100% type in general so I really don’t care too much.

If anything, I would be inclined to agree that these things take up valuable slots for people fighting the actual battles. But so far the boss battles in eternal seem to do that more than the achievement target (go away, Grub!).

In fact I was looking quite forward to do some jousting in a jumping area.

The game is still new, give it a few month and you will be all alone in the jumping puzzles there.

i could counter the arguement and say WvW players that want 100% map completion have to spend 98% of it in PvE content where they are forced to play with other people that they would rather kill. 100% map completion is an achievment that doesnt discriminate between PvP or PvE as it requires the player to participate in both PvP and PvE to achieve. If it requires you to go into a WvW zone to complete then it isn’t solely a PvE achievment. Nobody is forcing you to do anything, it is your misconception that you feel the need that you HAVE to do this achievement without achieving it as it has been intended to be achieved.

There’s no problem with players griefing you in a PvP zone.
I do agree that the world completion achievement should not involve anything inside a PvP zone. Especially since WvWvW = Mists =/= World

I think the queues make this a lot more of an issue than it really is… I’m hopeful that after the server rankings get sorted and some folks migrate off of servers with long queue times, it will get better.

So, does anyone have some effective strategy suggestions for dealing with the campers so we can turn this into a more helpful thread? I haven’t really run into them, but I don’t go do the jump puzzles when my side isn’t in control of the map. So, I guess my strategy is to ignore them and go help take some of the objectives. I seriously doubt that badge farmers will be sitting up there twiddling their thumbs while the battle is raging elsewhere. The only reason they camp is because there are enemy players to kill.

And to the folks that hate PvP – it doesn’t have to be running around with a zerg. Try it and see how it is different from the PvP you’ve experienced in other games before you completely make up your mind to hate it. There are lots of ways to contribute that don’t require head on confrontations with other players.

Undefended supply camps can easily be taken with 3 people. There are single veteran guards at control points that can be taken out solo. You can bring supply from a supply camp and repair tower doors and walls. PVE objectives like helping out a camp of Ogres, or collecting pearls for the Quaggen brings them over to your side. Yes, you always have to keep alert for enemy players, but that means there’s a lot more reason to party up in WvW than there is in PvE and I feel it’s a little more social. Or you could RP a commando behind enemy lines and make use of the terrain to avoid confrontations. You have to explore a bit to learn the maps, but there are plenty of places to duck around a rock and watch the zerg go stampeding by…

Check out the wiki and Mike Ferguson’s blog post

Something like 90% of this game is PvE, a virtual nirvana of “grifer” free carebeardom with zero challenge scripted AI mobs, yet people complain about PvP in the extremely limited PvP zones.

It boggles the mind.

100% world completion includes the battlegrounds. If 100% world completion is that important to you, then you will explore the battlegrounds.

If you don’t like PvP, then you don’t have to go near the place.

It’s up to you as a player to decide whats more important: 100% world completion, or your dislike of pVp to point of total avoidance.

This is just like the people that want zone completion without Vistas. It’s ridiculous. What’s there is there. Meet the requirements or decide the requirements aren’t to your taste and move on.

You can’t get zone completion without vistas, you can’t get world completion without the battlegrounds, you can’t get story rewards without doing story, you can’t get order specific armor if you chose a different order, you have to do dungeons to get dungeon tokens. And every single one of those things is something that is totally optional to character progression. So suck it up or move along to an activity you might have less complaints about.

It’s PvP. If there are people there giving you a hard time kill them. If there are too many, get your guild to help. Or friends. Or ask in team chat who else wants to get the puzzle instead of running 15 minutes back to a supply post siege and get them to come help you merc some dudes.

Or wait until your server is dominating, or transfer to a dominating server and run around and get your stuff hassle free. And I hope you find such victory shallow and empty :p

To be fair, sounds like an easy way to farm kills for the monthly.

Also; just so you’re aware, posting about this on the forums does absolutely nothing to resolve your problem.

It’s WvWvW, and as such, it is not griefing. Organize a force and deal with them. Don’t come to the forums to cry expecting ANet to do something about it for you.

its an interesting place to fight. not an open field, but a lot of varied terrain.

PvP happened in a PvP zone, someone cried they can’t do PvE things in PvP zone. Nothing new to see here >_>

Shadowlancer.7102:

It seems they don’t care about winning or losing and the rewards is minor but I just find it plain ridicules that so many players will just sit in the puzzle areas and just camp farm.

What is the point of this? Why is it necessary? I understand maybe an hour, possibly 2 hours; but when the same 10-15+ people or possible some 2-4 players leave and the same amount replaces them, guarding the puzzle area; I just do not understand what is such a bang out of this.

I still find it refreshing (if a bit depressing at the same time) to find players who still haven’t latched onto the fact that there is a sizable percentage of MMO gamers that, quite simply, just like to be a jerk about these sorts of things. Revel in your comparative naiveté, sir. All too soon it will get beaten out of you (as it may in fact be in the process of currently) and you will end up a cyynical and bitter old man like myself. ;-D

These types of players aren’t looking for opponents, they’re just looking for targets. They don’t want a challenge, they want a kill. They don’t want to achieve something, they want to prevent YOU from achieving something.

It’s how they get their jollies. They are cursed with the same mindset that, were they on any other MMO, would be going around the lowbie areas with their max-level toons one-shotting level 10s from the opposing faction just for the sheer thrill of it. Or, in the real world, making fun of others and beating up people that weren’t like them or their little ‘clique.’

If anything, be thankful that the structure of GW2 restricts their penile activities to small and relatively obscure areas of the game.

Anonymous.6935:

I don’t understand why you’d want to do a puzzle game anyway. It’s just a pointless, sometimes frustrating jumping puzzle, which leads to barely any reward or satisfaction, and some virtual number to add to your pointless achievements number.

Forgive me if i’m wrong and there’s some fantastic reason I should be doing these frustrating puzzles! If so, enlighten me! Thanks.

Well, clearly it’s not something you appreciate or get any satisfaction out of (which is fine, that’s why Anet tried to put lots of different activities in the game), but a lot of people like doing stuff like that purely for the personal satisfaction of completing something challenging.

Columba.9730:

I am really annoyed that pve queens are clogging up the WvWvW queues.

Agreed. It’s hard enough to get my guild into WvWvW to organize and make headway. Then to have PvEers take up queue slots and then CRY about PvP on the forums…

PvP is meant for killing, not farming…unless your griefing and farming players. It is part of the game. Do not go to a hostle zone if you do not want to get ganked. The same could be said, Do not join the military if you do not want to deploy. There are other ways to get into college without sacrificing your life. See the logic? If not, cant help you here.

OK, so I did the Eternal Battlegrounds one yesterday, let me share my experiences.

Disclaimer: I am not the best PvP player around; far from it, I lose more 1v1’s than I win at this point (I especially have to figure out how not to get ground into pulp within a second when jumped, and how to beat enemies that interrupt my every move). I also tend to run around solo as I hate to wait for people to get organized and my friends aren’t online at the times I get to play.

So yesterday I queued up for EB, and after a while I got in. First I checked the general WvW status, we controlled Stonemist and every location in ‘our’ part of the map. So I figured it would be ok to go and try out the puzzle.

This was a new location for me and it was quite exciting to start exploring, especially with the knowledge that enemies might be lurking around every corner. And yes, there were. Quite soon, you have to cross a bridge with a log trap that pushes you off. The very first time I ran across it without a problem, but I misjumped quite soon after that, and had to do it again. This time a big wooden log came seemingly out of nowhere and pushed me down. So back up again, and I discovered the trap has to be controlled, and you can see whether there are people at the controls. I tried getting passed it but no luck, after a few attempts me and the fellow soul having the same problem got jumped by another group of enemies, and we all died.

Take 2. After getting to the same point, I carefully checked whether enemies were at the trap controls. Sweet relief! It was empty. So on I went, trying to find the next part of the puzzle. A few ways ahead, there is a part where you have to climb a lot over narrow ledges. Afraid of being jumped, and being the coward that I am, I left a few push-back traps on these ledges myself, laughing evilly as I did so. But karma got me; as I got up to the final ledge, two enemies were waiting for me out of sight, got the jump on me, and before I could even scream I was down. I did not immediately teleport back, but hung around dead to see their modus operandi for a bit; they generally either stayed out of sight or AoE’d the ledges. They also looked like fully geared 80’s.

At that time I gave up for a bit, and rejoined the battlefield (capped back a few camps, and helped defend against a few attacks on our homelands, as the enemy was creeping in and it looked like our side needed every hand). After a while the attacks slowed, and everything seemed safe again, so it was time to fight the fear and tackle that puzzle for real!

(arg, forum post length limits! To be continued…)

In I went again, getting more nervous with every step. I ran into a solo enemy, and lo and behold, we did not fight! As it turns out, for some people there is this unwritten rule of not attacking each other in the puzzles; but as I talked to others, most had given up on this rule because there were attacked themselves. So my new resolve was to never attack unless the enemy seemed aggressive (this does give you the drawback of almost never having the initiative, but hey, let’s hope that karma thing goes two ways).

There was a group of enemies that were agressive, but not really camping (at least they moved away); I revived a mate, and while I was doing so two more joined us. This gave us enough manpower to oppose the foes and we beat them a little bit further. The way clear for us to move on, but I again I lost sight of my new friends quite quickly.

In a later part I ran into another enemy, this time engaged in a fight with a solo of my own world. I do not know who started the fight, but as I walked in the room, the enemy just downed my fellow, and I jumped in to help him. This was easy, since my downed unnamed mate had significally wounded him already. After that it was easy going for a while, did not run into anyone, but falling somewhere again I did lose sight of my new mate.

Some bits further I suddenly saw a few more enemies; a group of three, for which I would certainly be no match all by myself. I do not know if they would have attacked, but I did not like my chances, so I patiently and cowardly hid in a corner until they were gone, helped by one of the fountains that make you invisible, and on I went.

Now the end was in sight! I could almost taste the sweet sweet victory, but there was one last enemy here. I could almost see the choice he was making in his eyes, and was facing the same one. Do we want to fight each other and risk dying so close to the end? Or do we want to leave each other alone and both claim the prize? Trying to act as non-aggressive as I could, I tried motioning that we could go forward, and the opponent did the same. So together we ran the final stretch.

The prize from the chest at the end wasn’t actually worth that much, but man has this been fun.

Some lessons learned:
- It is fun! Reaching the end is the goal, but don’t forget the fun!
- Make use of whatever help the environment gives you (like the mystical fountains)
- Not every opponent is aggressive
- You can usually see if the traps are guarded, and you learn quite soon (usually by dying) where the natural ambush points are
- Yes, there are griefers, and perhaps it is a question of luck whether they are there or not, but in my experience they did move on after a while. You may have to try again at another day or time if it is too bad.
- You are usually not the only one of your team there, if there are griefers, or groups of enemies in general, team up!

If I had to improve anything, I’d say
- Make these independent from WvW region queues
- Let people spawn at the entrance of the long ones (those with independent loading screens)

I am loving these, and I am certainly going to run it again, and try out the others.

My post was deleted for not having a friendly tone, so I am re-posting it in a hopefully friendly tone! (in bold are the changes)
->

It doesn’t sound like getting map completion in PVP/WvW isn’t fun, just that you guys are not as driven.

Map completion implies the whole game, yes?

Plus it’s not 3 games in one, it’s one game … if you want it then get some mates, strategize a bit and do it!

You can do it fellow Tyrians!

This post is hilarious, just dont do the puzzle then. Its a PVP zone expect to get PvP action EVERYWHERE YOU GO, people camp the puzzles often BECAUSE they give free siege weapons which is VERY important and cost effective to do. + badges. dont like it? go somewhere else, and ontop of that, I wouldnet strictly lable puzzles as PvE, what about the EB puzzle, it has player activated traps, you will have to complete that one to get all your puzzles done. Is that PvE? No its not. PvE for puzzles is based on the context. Its a PvE puzzle if its in the PvE world, PvP puzzle in the PvP world.

Shadowlancer.7102:

While this involves with WvWvW environment, the puzzle areas are part of PvE therefor should be open to normal discussion.

Now the question is, does anyone believe that the griefing in WvW is a bit much? The only reason I say this is because I am starting to hate WvW alot now to the point that I do not want to queue for WvW.

I spent the last 6+ hours, solo, or with 5 people, and unsuccessfully unable to complete any of the puzzles in any zone without on average 10-15 players protecting the puzzle area.

It seems they don’t care about winning or losing and the rewards is minor but I just find it plain ridicules that so many players will just sit in the puzzle areas and just camp farm.

What is the point of this? Why is it necessary? I understand maybe an hour, possibly 2 hours; but when the same 10-15+ people or possible some 2-4 players leave and the same amount replaces them, guarding the puzzle area; I just do not understand what is such a bang out of this.

To make this more stressful and frustrating, to queue for any WvWvW you have to wait 30 minutes to 1 hour, just to join any of them.

To me, I just logged on today and said hey I want to to do the WvW puzzles today, 6+ hours later I find myself angry that I wasted 6+ hours of my Life because of this griefing and now, I question myself, is this puzzle worth the stress and frustration to try again tomorrow?

I don’t know, if this was the developers intentions then this was a bad design on their part or over looked.

I need some fresh minds on this subject and I want to hear your opinions on this issue wither I am over reacting or possibly you are as well, facing these issues and how its unproductive in WvW.

Well too bored to read the rest of the replies, so here it is: WvW jumping puzzles give WvW rewards, aka blueprints & badges of honor. And no, dont tell me about the 2-3 blue junk pieces.

Additionally, camping on the top of the chandelier room (for instance) and killing players, gives tons of extra BoH.

And….6 hours? seriously? You suck that much?

tjeb.6503:

If I had to improve anything, I’d say
- Make these independent from WvW region queues
- Let people spawn at the entrance of the long ones (those with independent loading screens)

I am loving these, and I am certainly going to run it again, and try out the others.

Excellent points!

I did not read the replies. Quite frankly, and this sucks, but it is the PvP zone. Some of what you get costs tons of silver. So it becomes a game of weighing the costs. Should you keep at it? Do you find it fun? If you do, you must weigh that fun against the fun of those killing you. And I have had scenarios where I got farmed leaping off the edge and landing on the waterfall platform near dead and being farmed.

It becomes up to you to stop that. Say something in chat about it. Anyone who has NOT done the puzzle and WvWs should do so and do so in groups. It must be great fun if only distastefully so to farm people when low HP and unable to react.

I know on Stormbluff Isle we don’t mind lending a hand to those doing the puzzle. I stress taking 50% less fall damage perk and -believe- each drop you will be fighting for your life. Whether or not that is the truth of it matters not as you’re prepared.

Though being prepared won’t save you always. Consider your knockbacks and other get away skills. Know that in combat you move slower so some jumps doom you to falling into the water.

This doesn’t need to change. How your server bands together and assists those in need matters and ALL benefit when you do the WvW puzzles. Also, can’t cheat. Tried to open chest when someone opened the vault and thats a no go.

Unfortunately PvP is filled with kicks for kittens kind of people . The bigger problem however is that you need to do PvP for what is essentially a PvE title .

Raehvyn you are talking about the Borderlands puzzles which are considerably easier & personally I never ever got attacked in them.
OP is talking about EB one.

Camping the puzzle in WvW, for the PvPer, is like going to your favorite fishing hole. You go there because you know you will catch fish. Just because you stay there doesn’t necessarily mean you are there to harass the fish.

That being said, the puzzle shouldn’t be part of the world completion list (if it is). ANet should put good pvp rewards for completing, so it still attracts PvPers to attempt it, and remove it from the list so PvEers are not required to do PvP. Everyone wins.

Managed to do it once for the achievement. Didn’t like doing it then, don’t ever plan to do it again.
Moving the sanctums out of the Explorer tab and into the WvW one would be nice.

That said, if you remove the PvP aspect of it, the Obsidian Sanctum is pretty freaking awesome and is what should have been the standard for jumping puzzles. It’s a shame that there are only 2 in PvE which are even in any way comparable (IMO)…

you could always bring some friends and show them who’s boss.

There’s some serious carebearing going on in this thread.

If PvEers should be able to get all their achievements and completion outside PvP then PvPers should be able to get 100% world completion without ever having to do any PvE.

Edit: Also calling killing people doing a puzzle in a PvP area griefing?! Dear god! Just don’t go there if you don’t want to risk getting killed.

Yes, it’s a PvP area so no, it’s not griefing. That being said, the time I waste screwing around trying to get what I need from the zone, is locking up a slot that someone who actually wants to participate in PvP could be using. The longer it takes me to do it, the longer someone else has to wait.

And really, do you want someone like me on your side? Someone who has no interest in capturing objectives, defending your keeps and killing other players? Someone who is only there under duress because a NON-PVP aspect of them game requires I be there? Is this really a win for anyone?

PvE and PvP are two very different things. That’s why the Mists exists and why open-world PvP does not. I wish that philosophy had been maintained throughout the game rather than having these stupid grey areas between them, that does nothing but create animosity within the community and absurd levels of frustration for some of us. Ball dropped, as far as I’m concerned.

i think the “pve” puzzle is in the WvW pvp area in order to lure pve ppl only in so pvp ppl can pk them.

Blacklight.2871:

Yes, it’s a PvP area so no, it’s not griefing. That being said, the time I waste screwing around trying to get what I need from the zone, is locking up a slot that someone who actually wants to participate in PvP could be using. The longer it takes me to do it, the longer someone else has to wait.

And really, do you want someone like me on your side? Someone who has no interest in capturing objectives, defending your keeps and killing other players? Someone who is only there under duress because a NON-PVP aspect of them game requires I be there? Is this really a win for anyone?

PvE and PvP are two very different things. That’s why the Mists exists and why open-world PvP does not. I wish that philosophy had been maintained throughout the game rather than having these stupid grey areas between them, that does nothing but create animosity within the community and absurd levels of frustration for some of us. Ball dropped, as far as I’m concerned.

wow i came here to say this and you already did so eloquently – ty for taking the time

i agree 100% – i dont like to pvp so if i go to wvwvw its ONLY to get my 100% world completion, not to pvp

so if you want ppl who DO like to pvp in your wvwvw zones, anet, get rid of 100% world completion in pvp zones…

Sorry, for some reason I can’t quote anymore, so I will do this manually:

“If you want 100% world completion, you should experience 100% of the world, which includes PvP. Why should you only experience part of the game and get the medal? It’s an achievement, not something you have to get past to enjoy the other parts of the game.”

This kind of reasoning is simplistic and nonsensical for two reasons:

1) Forcing people to do things they don’t want to never had good results. It’s better to encourage them without forcing them. There are explorers out there who aren’t killers, who don’t care about PvP. When those completed the whole PvE world, they should have a reward. Then, on top of that, you can add a PvP world achievement, and even eventually an achievement for both. But right now, the PvE player who explored the whole PvE world is screwed.

2) Do you really want PvE players only looking for the achievement completion take spots in the WvsW areas? When they do vistas/PoI/etc, they don’t participate in WvsW, they only hog a spot that could be used by an active PvP player instead. Sorry, I do quite a bit of WvsW, and when I have a 1h queue in the evening, I’d rather not have half of it being non-PvPers just looking to complete the exploration.

“When those completed the whole PvE world, they should have a reward. Then, on top of that, you can add a PvP world achievement, and even eventually an achievement for both.”

This is the only acceptable solution. Provided all three have rewards.

Kasenai.9418:

“When those completed the whole PvE world, they should have a reward. Then, on top of that, you can add a PvP world achievement, and even eventually an achievement for both.”

This is the only acceptable solution. Provided all three have rewards.

Oh, quoting is back

Yes, of course, all three would have rewards.

And about the puzzles, no, they don’t need any change (it’s PvP, and you do NOT need the puzzles for the world exploration), but I would like siege engines to be not authorized in there.

Puzzle griefing IS the puzzle. It’s not hard to get to the top but extremely challenging and fun pvp to battle others to the top!

If you don’t like pvp, stay out, there are no vistas you need there for your PvE and you get PvP rewards so.. Bai Bai!

Crica.1503:

i agree 100% – i dont like to pvp so if i go to wvwvw its ONLY to get my 100% world completion, not to pvp

I think that’s exactly what ANet intended. At least you went into the zone and had some experience of the WvW zone instead of completely ignoring it. I think as far as realm versus realm PvP goes in an MMO, GW2 is the most accessible to all skill and interest levels that I’ve seen.

There are really nice PvE bonuses for your side being ahead of the others, and there are things you can do to help the war effort that don’t require running with the zerg. Run supply from the supply camps to repair tower gates and such. There’s good harvesting in those areas too.

It’s not for everyone, but I think that there are some folks who “hate PvP” that would find it a fun change of pace from PvE once in a while if they gave it a chance. Some days I feel like crafting, some days I feel like a dungeon run, some days I feel like harvesting, and some days I want to conquer some territory in WvW (I haven’t had the urge to do any sPvP yet).

It’s nice to be able to switch things up, and you can come and go as you please with no commitment to spending a certain amount of time. Folks can’t camp your corpse, because you can always port back to a safe waypoint and leave the area. The area is large enough that you can avoid roving zergs if you keep an eye on the map. There are lots of things to do besides getting picked off by campers at the jumping puzzles.

It’s basically like PvE, except the mobs can be a lot smarter and tougher, their aggro radius is really big, and they really want you dead whether you’re bothering them or not

I support compulsory PVP to get legendary weapons, which means I support the gift of battle and the inclusion of the WvW zones in 100% map completion. People too afraid to face human opponents, in my opinion, do not deserve legendary weapons. Legendaries are meant to show mastery of the game, which happens to include two very prominent kinds of PVP with a third supposedly on the way. Pure PVEers have not, and will never “master” GW2, so they should not get legendaries.

Zinthros.6589:

I support compulsory PVP to get legendary weapons, which means I support the gift of battle and the inclusion of the WvW zones in 100% map completion. People too afraid to face human opponents, in my opinion, do not deserve legendary weapons. Legendaries are meant to show mastery of the game, which happens to include two very prominent kinds of PVP with a third supposedly on the way. Pure PVEers have not, and will never “master” GW2, so they should not get legendaries.

Ahh, now we start to see the rampant arrogance and kittenry that keeps me as far away from PvP as it’s possible to get. Ignore the fact that I’m willing to put in more effort than you are to acquire a legendary, what’s most important is that I won’t play the game by your worthless standards. You people are the last individuals on the planet that I’d choose to spend my leisure time with. Thank you for proving my point as to why some of us loath the PvP experience — we need to play with PvPkitten

…people are really complaining about this? Have they even looked at the jumping puzzle? It’s pretty obvious that it’s intended to be a challenge based around PvP combat considering you can use environmental traps, siege weaponry and your own abilities to eliminate the enemy.

Stop whining and stop asking for something many of us enjoy to be removed to sate your own selfish desires. I’m so sick of hearing about so called ‘casual’ players being able to do something when all it takes is a bit of asking around in map chat and people will usually come and aid you.

I’m far from a PvP orientated player myself, by the way. I just enjoy a challenge and have the common sense to play tactically to get what I want out of this game. In addition, nothing is forcing you to get a particular point of interest or reward right this instant. If it’s contested, wait until things calm down or gather up some like-minded individuals and work for your reward.

I agree with the above well reasoned post.

“Puzzles in WvWvW ruin the experience.”

Fixed that for you.

With queue times as ridiculous as they are. There shouldn’t be anything other than WvWvW to do in the Battlegrounds, period.

No NPC Trash like raptors, wolves, grubs, Ascalonians, etc… If they serve a WvWvW purpose like the Dredge/Troll/Quaggan camps, then that’s fine.

No POIs, No Vistas, and certainly nothing that counts for World Exploration completion.

And certainly no jumping puzzles. We had a Commander… yes, a COMMANDER lead a zerg of people through a jumping puzzle last night while the other servers were busy taking our capture points.

WvW’s problem is also its appeal: you can grief people if you outnumber them, and there’s not much you can do about it. As the matches have gotten more even, I’ve discovered that not a lot actually gets done in the matches, and it just turns into either a back and forth invisible zerg army, retaking the two same supply camps, or camping out, farming random pub players that wander into the wrong area.

Let me make sure I’m on track here… what I gather from the OP’s posts is that the root of their discontent regarding Obsidian Sanctum is that it’s making it impossible for them to finish out World Completion due to “griefers” and whatnot. The obvious answer here is that if you despise PvP, then don’t go there, plenty of other puzzles scattered around Tyria.

I might be mistaken but, when did jumping puzzles count towards World Completion? Is there a POI or a vista in that particular puzzle that I’m not recalling? If not, the puzzle is only worth whatever you get in the chest, your personal enjoyment, and the initial achievement points.

That being said, and assuming I’m correct in my post, this thread has zero reasons to exist.

Blacklight.2871:

Zinthros.6589:

I support compulsory PVP to get legendary weapons, which means I support the gift of battle and the inclusion of the WvW zones in 100% map completion. People too afraid to face human opponents, in my opinion, do not deserve legendary weapons. Legendaries are meant to show mastery of the game, which happens to include two very prominent kinds of PVP with a third supposedly on the way. Pure PVEers have not, and will never “master” GW2, so they should not get legendaries.

Ignore the fact that I’m willing to put in more effort than you are to acquire a legendary,

No. You’re not. You are only willing to fight predictable, scripted AI for your legendary. You are not willing to deal with the unpredictable nature of hostile players or the variables at play with their gear, traits, and skill build. For your legendary you are only willing to fight enemies whose exact stats, abilities, and behavior can be looked up in a wiki. I’m willing to do that. I’m willing to 100% the map, get 200 skill points, and enough karma for a legendary. The difference is that I’m also willing to face unknown, unpredictable opponents that quite literally have minds and goals of their own. I’m willing to kill them until I have 500 badges of honor. I’m willing to 100% complete maps where they might be roving in groups of 50+. Where you get the notion that you’re willing to put in “more effort” by only fighting enemies whose every detail can be googled is beyond me.

Can’t beat Shiro? Can’t beat him quick enough to get the title? Google it, and you’ll find proven solutions for basically every profession in the game (especially if you’re E/ME). Can’t beat a dungeon? Video guides, wiki strategies, maps, etc. Can’t find a vista/poi/heart? There’s a website for that. Having trouble with a tricky DE? There’s probably something on that too. Can’t beat a player or a specific build used by players? Huh. Guess you’ll have to think for yourself. You can try asking on forums, but there’s no guarantee the people answering will be as experienced with your profession in that matchup as you are, and it might be that their suggestion isn’t reliable or the best way to do it. There is a reason PVP titles are valued higher than PVE titles in the HOM, and there’s a reason PVP is and should be required for legendary weapons.

PvP in Obsidian Sanctum is the best thing happened to PvP in many MANY years. It’s just brilliant, really great. Awesome, I love it. I only play games for PvP and the idea of PvE simply makes me cringe. I’ve been pvping since it was humanly possible and I’m old enough to have pvped on everything, from Pong to Guild Wars 2 through Ultima Online pre-Trammel and anything else nasty you can think of.

However, the arrow cart bullkitten at the top of the final part (arena) is not PvP. It’s just loads of bull and whoever keeps repeating that it’s pvp and stop whining and such is really basically just a troll. Unless the campers get distracted or bored and lose focus, it’s pretty much impossible for anyone to get on the top of that room if the top is camped. This is BECAUSE of arrow carts and how they hit through walls and things like that, too. Mind, there isn’t any skill in getting up there, since the first who does in the morning or afternoon when no one is there can keep it until the server dies.

The only viable strategy (the one that doesn’t require huge amounts of luck) is to place a trebuchet at the start of the dungeon and bombard the campers while the rest of your group climbs up. And that strategy requires 10 people (to build the treb). A bit too much if you ask me, but that’s up to personal tastes. And again, not that great pvp.
Having to fight for the top of a vertical room is great pvp. Having to spend money on a trebuchet that finally clears my path just by hitting a button doesn’t feel good at all.

So, again, this dungeon is fantastic and the general “griefing” that happens through it is what I actually call “awesome pvp content”. On the other hand, the last room needs to be fixed and I am pretty sure it wouldn’t take anything away from the whole dungeon if they simply took away siege weapons from it.

To all those who think they are good at pvp for camping for hours at the top of the room with arrow carts, I hate to judge but you obviously don’t give a mole about PvP. You don’t even realize that the reason the place is not camped when you go there is not because people are not as good as you at pvping, it’s because people who like pvp don’t bother with an exploitable spot and an arrow cart.