Guild Wars 2

Give mesmer a trait that lets it strip boons whenever an enemy walks through a glamour… like the old blinding/confusion builds. Fixed and mesmer isn’t damaged because of crying.

SteepledHat.1345:

Give mesmer a trait that lets it strip boons whenever an enemy walks through a glamour… like the old blinding/confusion builds. Fixed and mesmer isn’t damaged because of crying.

Or just put a cap of duration for certain boons.

Latest patch, no mention of fixing boon issue

How hard would it be to have WvW specific skill rules like they have in PvP?

Yeah guys just run an army of necromancers.

Boonsharing in general makes wvw a boring one-dimensional mess. There’s no fun/skill involved at all in boonshare group vs boonshare group, and given how many ways there are to apply various boons + how fast they can be shared boon strip as it exists now doesn’t solve the problem.

I’ve told friends this is why I’m taking a break from GW2, being able to stack + share buffs for such long durations especially hard CC immunity + resistance (covers soft cc), quickness and protection. I got alot of disbelieving responses to this one, and describing what was going on with boon share….the whole situation just feels so ridiculous.

Boons really need a lower hard cap in duration, and/or boon share powers should be disabled in WVW altogether. PVE would probably benefit from this too, having such constant uptime on so many boons really makes it incredibly difficult to design interesting encounters without piling on one-shot mechanics.

If Mesmer’s Signet of Inspiration is the only culprit on the main problem here, then the answer becomes obvious…change it from copying all boons to copying 3 RANDOM boons on yourself to others. This guts the problem while still allowing boonsharing in a form.

RyuDragnier.9476:

If Mesmer’s Signet of Inspiration is the only culprit on the main problem here, then the answer becomes obvious…change it from copying all boons to copying 3 RANDOM boons on yourself to others. This guts the problem while still allowing boonsharing in a form.

Never like bringing more RNG into skills.
Just put a cap on the boon duration that SoI copies over.
Of course, they need to make this WvW only skill changes because boon copying is an essential part for mesmer to be viable in PvE raids.

RyuDragnier.9476:

If Mesmer’s Signet of Inspiration is the only culprit on the main problem here, then the answer becomes obvious…change it from copying all boons to copying 3 RANDOM boons on yourself to others. This guts the problem while still allowing boonsharing in a form.

SoI is not the only culprit here, nor is it the main one. The bigger culprits are the inherent 50% boon duration that revenants receive from a kittening trait, and the absolute boonfest that elite specs are. The boonshare was never anywhere close to as bad as it is now before HoT came out, which means it is not the fault of SoI. SoI just highlights extremely well the power creep and boon fest that elite specs are.

SteepledHat.1345:

Give mesmer a trait that lets it strip boons whenever an enemy walks through a glamour… like the old blinding/confusion builds. Fixed and mesmer isn’t damaged because of crying.

Love this idea

SteepledHat.1345:

Give mesmer a trait that lets it strip boons whenever an enemy walks through a glamour… like the old blinding/confusion builds. Fixed and mesmer isn’t damaged because of crying.

As for glamour boon strip, should null field be made unblockable just like well of corruption?

half the “fight” guilds in the game would die if you nerfed boonshare sadly most guilds have devolved from having hyper coordination to just running super tanky with 1+ minutes of swiftness

Boon sharing/stacking is fine as a strategy because it involves certain builds and group comps, the problem is the current state where groups can stack up a ridiculous amount of each boon and have them up permanently, leaving little counter play because even with boon stripping/conversion they can just be reapplied to easily. It just needs to be toned down and brought into line, not totally eliminated as a tactic.

X T D.6458:

Boon sharing/stacking is fine as a strategy because it involves certain builds and group comps, the problem is the current state where groups can stack up a ridiculous amount of each boon and have them up permanently, leaving little counter play because even with boon stripping/conversion they can just be reapplied to easily. It just needs to be toned down and brought into line, not totally eliminated as a tactic.

imho just quickness nerf of a 5-6 second hard cap would mean more coordination instead of prebuffing

SniffyCube.6107:

X T D.6458:

Boon sharing/stacking is fine as a strategy because it involves certain builds and group comps, the problem is the current state where groups can stack up a ridiculous amount of each boon and have them up permanently, leaving little counter play because even with boon stripping/conversion they can just be reapplied to easily. It just needs to be toned down and brought into line, not totally eliminated as a tactic.

imho just quickness nerf of a 5-6 second hard cap would mean more coordination instead of prebuffing

Quickness definitely should never be allowed to be stacked anywhere near a minute or even close to that, that is absolutely ridiculous.

Yeah… it’s a bit much… lol

OriOri.8724:

RyuDragnier.9476:

If Mesmer’s Signet of Inspiration is the only culprit on the main problem here, then the answer becomes obvious…change it from copying all boons to copying 3 RANDOM boons on yourself to others. This guts the problem while still allowing boonsharing in a form.

SoI is not the only culprit here, nor is it the main one. The bigger culprits are the inherent 50% boon duration that revenants receive from a kittening trait, and the absolute boonfest that elite specs are. The boonshare was never anywhere close to as bad as it is now before HoT came out, which means it is not the fault of SoI. SoI just highlights extremely well the power creep and boon fest that elite specs are.

It’s the copying all boons that makes SoI so powerful now. You have one class that can give out Regen/Fury/Might/Swiftness/Protection like candy, but you’d need 3 Revs just to have all of those stacking.

Prot is an elite which requires you to stop your energy generation (that’s 1), Swiftness/Might/Facet combined shuts down another, and Fury/Regen/Facet combined is the 3rd shutdown. That’s 3 Revs without energy gen before combat stacking this, and that assumes they’re in the same party. That means the last 2 in the party are the Mesmers using SoI to copy everything to other parties in the squad.

So what happens if you change SoI to 3 random boons? You’ve just relatively shutdown the boonshare, because there’s no guarantee that 2 of those boons will be transferred when you use it. This btw is not including the Quickness stacking, but even just the SoI change would shut that down. If they can nerf this for ONLY WvW somehow, we’ve fixed the problem without gutting it in PvE.

Like I said, SoI was never considered a problem to near this degree before HoT, which shows that the problem does not lie with SoI, but instead with the power creep and boon spam that is the elite specs. SoI is fine as it is, revs with their inherent 50% boon duration and the boon spam of elite specs is the problem. Even if it takes 3 revenants to keep those boons up, that’s 3 people who can keep up permanent or near permanent Regen/Fury/Might/Swiftness/Protection. That is way too OP for 3 people to be able to put out. Combine that with all of the other boonspam going on with elite specs and it very quickly becomes apparent that SoI is not the problem, it merely illustrates the problem.

Focus on real issues instead of trying to fix the symptoms. The problem is excessive boon spam, and excessive boon duration (made worse by commanders gear)

RyuDragnier.9476:

OriOri.8724:

RyuDragnier.9476:

If Mesmer’s Signet of Inspiration is the only culprit on the main problem here, then the answer becomes obvious…change it from copying all boons to copying 3 RANDOM boons on yourself to others. This guts the problem while still allowing boonsharing in a form.

SoI is not the only culprit here, nor is it the main one. The bigger culprits are the inherent 50% boon duration that revenants receive from a kittening trait, and the absolute boonfest that elite specs are. The boonshare was never anywhere close to as bad as it is now before HoT came out, which means it is not the fault of SoI. SoI just highlights extremely well the power creep and boon fest that elite specs are.

It’s the copying all boons that makes SoI so powerful now. You have one class that can give out Regen/Fury/Might/Swiftness/Protection like candy, but you’d need 3 Revs just to have all of those stacking.

Prot is an elite which requires you to stop your energy generation (that’s 1), Swiftness/Might/Facet combined shuts down another, and Fury/Regen/Facet combined is the 3rd shutdown. That’s 3 Revs without energy gen before combat stacking this, and that assumes they’re in the same party. That means the last 2 in the party are the Mesmers using SoI to copy everything to other parties in the squad.

So what happens if you change SoI to 3 random boons? You’ve just relatively shutdown the boonshare, because there’s no guarantee that 2 of those boons will be transferred when you use it. This btw is not including the Quickness stacking, but even just the SoI change would shut that down. If they can nerf this for ONLY WvW somehow, we’ve fixed the problem without gutting it in PvE.

The other culprit that nobody wants to talk about are Durability Runes. Mainly because we’ve all invested in them and every meta build basically runs them.

A better option is to just limit the cap of boon from 9 to 5 or even 3 like ANet did with Retaliation Boon when it was deemed that boon was too powerful to have such severe uptime.

Note, the boon application cap nerf should probably exclude Swiftness. Everything else is fair game.

I think everyone is missing that the concentration stat and sigil are what caused all of it. If they use the pvp amulet system in wvw and not have one with concentration, then this all goes away and looks like pre-hot again. Sure, the Rev still gives the 50%, but no more chronomancer runes with amulet system so less quickness.

Pompeia.5483:

I think everyone is missing that the concentration stat and sigil are what caused all of it. If they use the pvp amulet system in wvw and not have one with concentration, then this all goes away and looks like pre-hot again. Sure, the Rev still gives the 50%, but no more chronomancer runes with amulet system so less quickness.

Not really the issue. With say Traveler Runes at 15% and food at 20% + 50% rev, yeah not a big deal. Even take away the rev’s boon duration and instead of a constant 1min you can just restack 30s every ~30s.

The entire boonshare and WvW balance seems like a Jenga stack, removing just one piece either won’t do anything or will just break WvW completely. By that I mean remove resistance application and condi’s become super powerful, with the durability people have Quickness is kind of necessary to prevent overly long engagements and you can flip that the other way, with quickness you need the general durability we have in WvW with the new stats, protection and other boons. Even removing mesmers completely you still have folks running around with super tanky builds with overall more damage than pre-HoT. The only trouble comes is when one team has boonshare and the other doesn’t, but you could say the same about guardians and stability, the only difference is a few mesmers for the squad vs 1-2 guards per party.

We fought a group of pure guards last week with our random one and it was fun but took forever so I get it. Just figured concentration was a big part of the problem. Power creep is inevitable so we have to work around that. Stats and runes seem an easy target.

Pompeia.5483:

I think everyone is missing that the concentration stat and sigil are what caused all of it. If they use the pvp amulet system in wvw and not have one with concentration, then this all goes away and looks like pre-hot again. Sure, the Rev still gives the 50%, but no more chronomancer runes with amulet system so less quickness.

There are amulets with concentration in sPvP: Diviner’s and Seeker’s.
Also there are several overlooked runes that give a lot of boon duration such as Runes of the Water.
Hell, I can even make a boonshare build without even using HoT.

Jeknar.6184:

Pompeia.5483:

I think everyone is missing that the concentration stat and sigil are what caused all of it. If they use the pvp amulet system in wvw and not have one with concentration, then this all goes away and looks like pre-hot again. Sure, the Rev still gives the 50%, but no more chronomancer runes with amulet system so less quickness.

There are amulets with concentration in sPvP: Diviner’s and Seeker’s.
Also there are several overlooked runes that give a lot of boon duration such as Runes of the Water.
Hell, I can even make a boonshare build without even using HoT.

All right then.

#WhiteFlag

But how was this not a problem before HoT?

Pompeia.5483:

But how was this not a problem before HoT?

Because you didn’t had every other class feeding boons to the mesmer to it share to the others. This became a issue on HoT because of Herald passive boon facets and Aurashare Tempest (with the boon on aura traits) imo. Chronomancer is also partially culprit because it can stack ridiculous ammounts of quickness with Seize the Moment and Tides of Time, along with the capability of using the signet twice in a row with Continuum Split or even four times if you are good enough to time it out with Mimic (this require some illusions to be up tho).

See the partern? Everything revolves around the Elite Specs that were introduced with HoT. That’s why it wasn’t a problem before.

Jeknar.6184:

Pompeia.5483:

I think everyone is missing that the concentration stat and sigil are what caused all of it. If they use the pvp amulet system in wvw and not have one with concentration, then this all goes away and looks like pre-hot again. Sure, the Rev still gives the 50%, but no more chronomancer runes with amulet system so less quickness.

There are amulets with concentration in sPvP: Diviner’s and Seeker’s.
Also there are several overlooked runes that give a lot of boon duration such as Runes of the Water.
Hell, I can even make a boonshare build without even using HoT.

You lose Mesmer F5 and double Shield block (Echo of Memory/Deja Vu) combo with Illusionary Inspiration trait though from Chronomaster line which makes boon share 4x more powerful (3x if you screw up the rotation or don’t block something).

From a boon %, I agree gear choice has always been there but you can twink even further with running Exotic trinkets with Platinum doubloons and stop using the expensive consumables if you want or just take the more obvious food choice.

Artaz.3819:

You lose Mesmer F5 and double Shield block (Echo of Memory/Deja Vu) combo with Illusionary Inspiration trait though from Chronomaster line which makes boon share 4x more powerful (3x if you screw up the rotation or don’t block something).

Illusionary Inspiration have 30s ICD just as the Signet and it’s on Inpiration trait-line not on Chronomancer… Otherwise one could easily pop 3 times SoI just by swapping weapons (every weapon set have a phantasm) and using the signet itself… Hell, we would even be able to do it 6 times with Continuum Split or 8 if we landed a mimic along the lines. Whew, thank god this don’t work that way.

Artaz.3819:

From a boon %, I agree gear choice has always been there but you can twink even further with running Exotic trinkets with Platinum doubloons and stop using the expensive consumables if you want or just take the more obvious food choice.

Oh, I totally forgot about the Platinum Doubloons… And also the Giver’s Trinkets/Armor that give 1% Boon Duration each. That will add another 35% Boon Duration making it a 85% Boon Duration Overkill without even needing HoT.

Here is the new thing: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQJAWRnsICFohFrBeoBUrhlUDi8BlIAnDpJV38G/IoA-TFiFABHt/QPK/ce+zAXCA60F0wTAAAlguo+DpACcqF-w

Seems to me that boon duration shouldn’t be in the game, it’s a big part of the balancing problem. Every boon has a set base time or stacks, a recast time, and whether or not you can share it with your allies for a reason, and adding variables that can mess with those can break that balance. If they really were going add variables to those settings plus random boon procs from runes and sigils and traits, then hardcaps should have been looked at.

The same can be said about condition durations, which for a long time forced players to run minus condition duration foods to help negate that damage since resistance wasn’t in the game before. There’s a reason why certain conditions such as chill have a maximum stack of 5 while others have 25.

Jeknar.6184:

Pompeia.5483:

But how was this not a problem before HoT?

Because you didn’t had every other class feeding boons to the mesmer to it share to the others. This became a issue on HoT because of Herald passive boon facets and Aurashare Tempest (with the boon on aura traits) imo. Chronomancer is also partially culprit because it can stack ridiculous ammounts of quickness with Seize the Moment and Tides of Time, along with the capability of using the signet twice in a row with Continuum Split or even four times if you are good enough to time it out with Mimic (this require some illusions to be up tho).

See the partern? Everything revolves around the Elite Specs that were introduced with HoT. That’s why it wasn’t a problem before.

Exactly. SoI is powerful, but it only highlights the problem that is elite specs are just kittenting boons out their kitten everytime they turn around. The boon application (and ridiculously easy access to boon duration with HoT) is the problem here, not the sharing

ANET, Don’t forget about the people that still care about having fun fights in this game. Address this issue!

Agreed, with the balance patch around the corner, hope this is on the top of the list to be addressed. Deployable cannon beta testing and repair hammers instead of fixing boonshare shows how out of touch you have become.

Radioactive.1248:

Agreed, with the balance patch around the corner, hope this is on the top of the list to be addressed. Deployable cannon beta testing and repair hammers instead of fixing boonshare shows how out of touch you have become.

And that’s what we’re gonna get lol.

Seriously, profession balance is never getting better until they massively nerf the power creep from HoT and remove half the runes and armor they introduced.

Johannes.4638:

Gratuitous Bump

Please take the time to possibly perhaps look into this maybe. For the good of the last of us.

Thank you for your assistance in this matter, your help is greatly appreciated.

Meekz.8274:

ANET, Don’t forget about the people that still care about having fun fights in this game. Address this issue!

DeceiverX.8361:

And that’s what we’re gonna get lol.

Seriously, profession balance is never getting better until they massively nerf the power creep from HoT and remove half the runes and armor they introduced.

HoT power creep will be nerfed more when the next expansion happens – work with it.

If ANet nerfs/removes the Runes and Sigils, people will simply go to the HoT T6 Orbs/Maguuma Lily/Black Diamond, etc. So that is not the solution.

There is basically one specific HoT Rune (Durability) that needs to be hit hard with the nerf stick. Only Sigil of Concentration is somewhat OP but that’s only a problem because of other boon duration.

I would argue that Plate of Gnashblade Mussels food is far more unbalancing than any HoT sigil or other non-Durability Rune though.

Signet of inspiration is a crime against humanity.

Radioactive.1248:

Signet of inspiration is a crime against humanity.

seen you guys using it on stream last week m8. What’s up with that?

jamesdolla.3954:

Radioactive.1248:

Signet of inspiration is a crime against humanity.

seen you guys using it on stream last week m8. What’s up with that?

Desperate times call for desperate measures my friend.

Radioactive.1248:

jamesdolla.3954:

Radioactive.1248:

Signet of inspiration is a crime against humanity.

seen you guys using it on stream last week m8. What’s up with that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA4XE9XaCH8

Desperate times call for desperate measures my friend.

Your boy duke came up with that boonshare method before HoT came out and said only use it when you have to it will ruin the game. A lot of people figured it out 1 year later tho. not much you can do about that.

jamesdolla.3954:

Radioactive.1248:

jamesdolla.3954:

Radioactive.1248:

Signet of inspiration is a crime against humanity.

seen you guys using it on stream last week m8. What’s up with that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA4XE9XaCH8

Desperate times call for desperate measures my friend.

Your boy duke came up with that boonshare method before HoT came out and said only use it when you have to it will ruin the game. A lot of people figured it out 1 year later tho. not much you can do about that.

RIP Duke. Pouring out a little of my Colt 45 for him right now.

Agreed, we used it that night because we were up against map queues who were also using it. Was a pretty controversial decision in the guild and we even had a member leave (lol). It doesn’t make the game mode better, just more cancerous. Duke’s assessment is about right.

Radioactive.1248:

jamesdolla.3954:

Radioactive.1248:

Signet of inspiration is a crime against humanity.

seen you guys using it on stream last week m8. What’s up with that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA4XE9XaCH8

Desperate times call for desperate measures my furend.

Corrected that for you… Wouldn’t want your meme crown to tilt.

I mean, boonshare can help against the blobs and can win you outnumbered fights but anything the small group can do the bigger group can do and do it better lol. aoe cap is a kitten.

Reading all this, there is “stated” good and bad points, but very little mentioning skills that can counter. I’ve been running with group compositions and commanders that know how to call out maneuvers for countering things like boon-share buffing and quickness. This has been in the game what, a year now. Before doing something like modifying durations and all, please look at the players cost to actually make one of these fully setup toons. Besides a great amount of time gated crafting, there’s multiple map currencies and gold (1000+ AB currency, 100+ laurals, 700+ gold, 2000 wvw badges, ascended crafting materials that could sell for hundreds of gold, etc), . Gold translates to real world money though gems. Sure, someone can build an OK exotic setup but that buff duration isn’t much, but what about the very small amount of us that have spent (adding all map currencies) over 1000gold in value to make an ascended Mez? If this does go down, I sure hope some type of emailed item to change and compensate these high cost toons. Also, I’ve run with many commanders that will actually stop the group, until a sharing Mez stops, leaves the group, or changes toons. Also noted, many groups have found and run counters, again, it has been in the game for a long time now. Sry, but hearing possible nerf makes me very upset due to the very much extended effort, time and cost. It’s not like this was just added to the game and needs quick fix. Most players learn and adapt play styles and use already available skills as they go to survive. Sry some cannot adapt.

Artaz.3819:

DeceiverX.8361:

And that’s what we’re gonna get lol.

Seriously, profession balance is never getting better until they massively nerf the power creep from HoT and remove half the runes and armor they introduced.

HoT power creep will be nerfed more when the next expansion happens – work with it.

If ANet nerfs/removes the Runes and Sigils, people will simply go to the HoT T6 Orbs/Maguuma Lily/Black Diamond, etc. So that is not the solution.

There is basically one specific HoT Rune (Durability) that needs to be hit hard with the nerf stick. Only Sigil of Concentration is somewhat OP but that’s only a problem because of other boon duration.

I would argue that Plate of Gnashblade Mussels food is far more unbalancing than any HoT sigil or other non-Durability Rune though.

The new gear-stat distributions are pretty game-breaking, honestly. 15% extra stats for no apparent reason on mixtures that are already very strong.

Artaz.3819:

Plate of Gnashblade Mussels.

Lol kitten I didn’t even know that food was a thing. Boon duration and 10% damage reduction? Toally using that. #tankwars2

But yeah, boon sharing is kind of silly. Rangers ‘Heal as One’ works fine because most of the boons that can be shared have a duration of 2-5 seconds, and it only hits the one player/pet. Being able to share boons with long durations to a bunch of allies can, and has gotten out of hand.

~ Kovu