Guild Wars 2

Weez.6315:

By rebalancing lb dmg i mean lowering the damage from far and increasing it from close range.

With 1500 range “counters” you mean blocks and reflects? A good rangers wouldnt just shoot on someone blocking all his arrows or even reflecting them. he would just retreat a bit, maybe use his stealth skill to position himself better and start again.

Ahh, good point. You want to make longbow a melee weapon. Great idea! I see you really thought that one through!

/sarcasm

And yes. Blocks and reflects are counters. A good ranger will continue to aa on a block and wait out a reflect. But that is time where the ranger isn’t damaging you. Like for a traited WoR, that thing lasts a full 12 seconds of ranged dmg immunity if you stand in it where you can do things like waiting out your heal or other cooldowns.

As for classes that can stealth, yes. Rangers can track through stealth. And yes, we can also reveal you for 6 seconds every 40 seconds on a skill that can be dodged. But honestly, these don’t last very long. If a ranger rapid fires you before you go into stealth, just dodge or mitigate it with skills and all of a sudden the ranger has to go on the defensive to protect against your incoming attack that can’t be seen.

Weez.6315:

You need 1 dodge to avoid a warrior´s evis.

Lie
This is pretty fast and unobvious skill – you can avoid it only occasionally
Also, it hits as whole Rapid Fire channel with the same cd.
Every hit of RF hits only for 1-2k – being hit for 1-2 hits from channel not a big deal.

And you are forgot about some thing: every ranger at the WvW forced to face with… the same rangers. And noone moaning about that.

Weez.6315:

Aberrant.6749:

Weez.6315:

Ranger was in a bad spot before the patch so anet does the easiest thing to “balance” a class. They just increase the Dmg, instead of changing class mechanics, supportskills etc.
Increasing / lowering the dmg cant be always the solution.

1500 range burst is only avoidable with certain skills, that you may not have available with your class or with a change of your whole build or with luck cause you got the right skills out of cooldown. Otherwise you will get perforated.

You need 1 dodge to avoid a warrior´s evis. other classes are in close range to burst so you have many options to defend yourself. You can either dodge, CC, soft CC or use a block/invul skill etc
You would need 2 dodges for the Ranger`s rapidfire and you would still get hit.
A ranger just has to secure to keep the distance.
You could argue a mesmer can do exactly the same. But from range its far less pressure than the ranger offers and its not from 1500 range.
1500 range is imo the big problem. You cant bring a gun to a knifefight.

And those storys about using a magnetic shield and the ranger kills himself dont make any point. How bad was that ranger? We arent talking about PvE rangers here.

Many good players i know tried a power ranger nearly the first time after that patch and laughed about how easy it is. It shouldnt be that easy… Ranger shouldnt want to have it that easy.

I have WvW rangers kill themselves on dagger storm constantly. Sadly WvW rangers tend to be worse than PvE rangers. WvW seem to have issues even swapping weapons. If you just sit on a longbow in PvE you’ll get kicked from a party.

If the major of PU mesmers wouldnt have used any stealth skill, the trait would have never been nerfed.. so what
We are not talking about rangers that cant use their skills properly.

It’s very rare for something to be nerfed for WvW reasons. WvW is imbalanced in far more severe ways than any one specific class.

People are complaining about rangers in general in WvW. So yea… kinda are.

Well, post expansion, rangers gonna get interesting, but i have no real confidence in that they will be any more mainstream then now.

People moan bout rangers, but i cannot say i see any more rangers, i do notice them more often though as they now pose a real danger. I think thats where it is at right now. Sure there may be a small increase to before, but i honestly think people just notice them now that they can kill you so quickly.

Tl; dr
Rangers are now an actual threat, so people cannot not notice that they exist.

HtFde.3856:

Weez.6315:

But mobility is definately not a Ranger´s Problem..

Have a d/d ele without 25% movement speed, use a thief without 25% movement speed, use a warrior even without warrior’s sprint … take a ranger and give him 25% movement speed … start a race … guess who comes last unless it’s a very, very short sprint race?

Speed depends on particular set ups, a P/P thief is not very fast, same with hammer warrior or S/F ele. If you want speed, build for it.

S Wh +GS ranger is quite quick even over distances. It just boils down to whether or not you can use sword2

Jayden Ennok.3687:

HtFde.3856:

Weez.6315:

But mobility is definately not a Ranger´s Problem..

Have a d/d ele without 25% movement speed, use a thief without 25% movement speed, use a warrior even without warrior’s sprint … take a ranger and give him 25% movement speed … start a race … guess who comes last unless it’s a very, very short sprint race?

Speed depends on particular set ups, a P/P thief is not very fast, same with hammer warrior or S/F ele. If you want speed, build for it.

I was referring to “mobility is no problem for a ranger” … as a ranger I never run from a fight because I know it is useless, you cannot get away from most anything.

Guardians usually use Judge’s to teleport to you
Thieves can use SB 5, Heartseeker, Shadowstepping + Stealing to close the gap
Necros … might have a chance there except when they’re already at 1200 range and use shroud 2
Warriors … usually 33% movement speed from signet (roamers usually don’t carry the banner) + bull’s charge + 1 or two leap skills
Mesmers … you can get away from those

If you run LB + GW you have one chance if your GS leap get’s you out of range and if you can pull off RaO without being interrupted … and if no thief steals the boon …

Prysin.8542:

S Wh +GS ranger is quite quick even over distances. It just boils down to whether or not you can use sword2

GS is a leap that works nicely, yes. WH is a boon … as our enemies usually have a 3 out of 5 ratio with thieves, boons never last longe so they’re unreliable for escaping. S 2 requires you to stop running and face the “wrong” direction which can be pretty deadly when you have a couple of people closing in on you.

So for mobility we have GS and may waste a skill slot for a signet. When out of enemy range 33% boon is viable (but only if you run as pure melee ranger) via horn or – bad for when entering a fight – via elite, though the stability from RaO is nice.

Overall, though, my thief, warrior or my ele get’s to places much faster than my ranger and that’s why those are my preferred classes for gathering. It’s incredible how fast you can run across a map with those.

Tbh, they just need to nerf the dmg on rapid fire (not on longbow in general) and decrease the range of longbow to that of any normal long range weapon (1200), like elementalist staff.

Sirendor.1394:

Tbh, they just need to nerf the dmg on rapid fire (not on longbow in general) and decrease the range of longbow to that of any normal long range weapon (1200), like elementalist staff.

Hm – compared to … what?

A thief that teleports into a group, uses SB 2 3 times and runs off again will do more damage in those 5 seconds than a ranger with 3 rapid fire salvos which take far longer and are less likely to hit … (before you say wtf … I do this occasionally. Shadowstep in, use SB 2, short delay – when projectile has gained some height use 2 to detonate, repeat twice and just when those still alive will go after you use shadow return and run – works wonders in a group fight)

Cutting the range and lowering the damage will serve but one purpose – to make bow ranger the laughable lootbag it was prior to the patch. Also please keep in mind that rangers have almost no AoE skills and those they have do very little damage. So it’s only fair and natural to have single target skills do more damage.

I’d have no complaint if Ranger was seriously reworked with, say, choosing arrow types (exploding, poison, piercing, etc.) to allow for AoE or single target damage and then to adjust damage output – but what everyone here is saying is: Please nerf ranger so that the can no longer kill me and I can kill them easily instead – which was exactly what the situation for a bow ranger was before the patch.

Sirendor.1394:

Tbh, they just need to nerf the dmg on rapid fire (not on longbow in general) and decrease the range of longbow to that of any normal long range weapon (1200), like elementalist staff.

Why exactly? If you are going to call for a nerf you need to provide an argument that holds water.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Sirendor.1394:

Tbh, they just need to nerf the dmg on rapid fire (not on longbow in general) and decrease the range of longbow to that of any normal long range weapon (1200), like elementalist staff.

Why exactly? If you are going to call for a nerf you need to provide an argument that holds water.

I think the arguments you are looking for are in this 5-page long thread.. to name a few:

• This is the only weapon+class that has such a far range and so much damage with it: it does not encourage strategic or skillful play, instead it encourages you to stand in your tower and shoot at enemies who have no alternative than to run out of your range.
• Since no other class has this kind of range it’s poorly balanced. Counters are either speccing to counter one specific builds, or relying on high mobility to get out and in fast.
• Rapid fire is a broken skill since it does not stop firing when an enemy goes stealthed, and people who go full zerk can shoot you to death with just using that one skill.

Many more arguments all over the thread, but I think you get the gist. Range is too far which makes it unbalanced when compared with the high damage. Therefore: nerf.

Sirendor.1394:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Sirendor.1394:

Tbh, they just need to nerf the dmg on rapid fire (not on longbow in general) and decrease the range of longbow to that of any normal long range weapon (1200), like elementalist staff.

Why exactly? If you are going to call for a nerf you need to provide an argument that holds water.

I think the arguments you are looking for are in this 5-page long thread.. to name a few:

• This is the only weapon+class that has such a far range and so much damage with it: it does not encourage strategic or skillful play, instead it encourages you to stand in your tower and shoot at enemies who have no alternative than to run out of your range.
• Since no other class has this kind of range it’s poorly balanced. Counters are either speccing to counter one specific builds, or relying on high mobility to get out and in fast.
• Rapid fire is a broken skill since it does not stop firing when an enemy goes stealthed, and people who go full zerk can shoot you to death with just using that one skill.

Many more arguments all over the thread, but I think you get the gist. Range is too far which makes it unbalanced when compared with the high damage. Therefore: nerf.

I said arguments that hold water. Each complaint you have listed has been destroyed by numerous people. Unless you can come up with a valid reason to nerf longbow I suggest you spend more time improving your personal skill and less time complaining.

Sirendor.1394:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Sirendor.1394:

Tbh, they just need to nerf the dmg on rapid fire (not on longbow in general) and decrease the range of longbow to that of any normal long range weapon (1200), like elementalist staff.

Why exactly? If you are going to call for a nerf you need to provide an argument that holds water.

I think the arguments you are looking for are in this 5-page long thread.. to name a few:

• This is the only weapon+class that has such a far range and so much damage with it: it does not encourage strategic or skillful play, instead it encourages you to stand in your tower and shoot at enemies who have no alternative than to run out of your range.

Playing as a ranger it is actually amazing how little you hit with that if the people you shoot at move and have retaliation on … it also requires you to hop onto the wall and thus you become easy prey for mesmer, thief or necro pulls.

Sirendor.1394:

• Since no other class has this kind of range it’s poorly balanced. Counters are either speccing to counter one specific builds, or relying on high mobility to get out and in fast.

OK, then let’s burn thief because no other class has that much steal uptime and such high burst damage … Your reasoning is faulty. The dps from range is (a) rather unreliable unless you kind of don’t move and (b) the actual dps is quite low because of the cooldown and the auto-attack, despite many claims here, doesn’t hit hard. Never met a killshot warrior, I’d say – they only have 1.200 range but they do more damage than my channel LB 2 and they do it in one hit – so there’s no escaping by blocking or evading like my LB 2 that comes bit by bit and gives you time to react.

Sirendor.1394:

• Rapid fire is a broken skill since it does not stop firing when an enemy goes stealthed, and people who go full zerk can shoot you to death with just using that one skill.

Every channeling skill does – but I get what you want – instant kills without any risk. Since thieves still render far later than they become visible (in some cases they do not even render once) you’d be home safe … where, please, is that not broken, hm? Where does this require skill to hit an enemy who’s never able to target you?

Sirendor.1394:

Many more arguments all over the thread, but I think you get the gist. Range is too far which makes it unbalanced when compared with the high damage. Therefore: nerf.

Fun thing … all of a sudden thieves are dying while they had free reign before and now they go and cry nerf. How about nerfing stealth on thieves so that – once revealed – they cannot restealth for 8 seconds? Or how to penalize when attacking from stealth – like 20% damage reduction when attacking from stealth? And how about getting rid of initiative and have them be subject to cooldowns like every other class?

If you play a thief and get killed by rangers so often … finally l2p instead of relying on the absolutely unbalanced stealth/movement/damage combo from the most broken class I ever encountered. When I am around running a power LB build on my ranger most thieves survive the encounter and quite a few win them. So it’s maybe not ranger that is overpowered but maybe you who has possibly adopted a bit too much of a slack playstyle?

When people get more or less insta-killed by thieves everyone says: Well, how about running a bit more defense and not just a glass cannon? Same to you now … the only class that actually is in danger of getting killed by LB 2 is a thief glass cannon. So – do as you expect from all other classes – get some defense as well and live with the fact that you can no longer down enemies in under 5 seconds.

People gotta learn how to escape on ranger. Is thief and ele faster? Yes, warrior is only faster if they got bulls charge.

To escape on ranger, the correct way to gain distance is;
Swoop > “about face” > hornet strike > lightning reflexes > “about face” > monarchs leap then swap to GS when able.

If you are smart you swap to Wolf or krytan drakehound and use their F2 into thin air right after the initial swoop. This buys you 2-3 seconds.

The reason to burn LR is that you get vigor. Having more dodges while running is paramount. Further if running wh, you use it after the initial rotation shown above. Once you gain 2200+ range from an enemy, using warhorn will further speed you up and ensure that your next rotation goes a bit further.

If you choose to play Norn like me, then just grab Become the Snow leo when solo roaming. It is situational, but priceless to just stealth and run off in a completely different direction.

HtFde.3856:

Sirendor.1394:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Sirendor.1394:

Tbh, they just need to nerf the dmg on rapid fire (not on longbow in general) and decrease the range of longbow to that of any normal long range weapon (1200), like elementalist staff.

Why exactly? If you are going to call for a nerf you need to provide an argument that holds water.

I think the arguments you are looking for are in this 5-page long thread.. to name a few:

• This is the only weapon+class that has such a far range and so much damage with it: it does not encourage strategic or skillful play, instead it encourages you to stand in your tower and shoot at enemies who have no alternative than to run out of your range.

Playing as a ranger it is actually amazing how little you hit with that if the people you shoot at move and have retaliation on … it also requires you to hop onto the wall and thus you become easy prey for mesmer, thief or necro pulls.

Sirendor.1394:

• Since no other class has this kind of range it’s poorly balanced. Counters are either speccing to counter one specific builds, or relying on high mobility to get out and in fast.

OK, then let’s burn thief because no other class has that much steal uptime and such high burst damage … Your reasoning is faulty. The dps from range is (a) rather unreliable unless you kind of don’t move and (b) the actual dps is quite low because of the cooldown and the auto-attack, despite many claims here, doesn’t hit hard. Never met a killshot warrior, I’d say – they only have 1.200 range but they do more damage than my channel LB 2 and they do it in one hit – so there’s no escaping by blocking or evading like my LB 2 that comes bit by bit and gives you time to react.

Sirendor.1394:

• Rapid fire is a broken skill since it does not stop firing when an enemy goes stealthed, and people who go full zerk can shoot you to death with just using that one skill.

Every channeling skill does – but I get what you want – instant kills without any risk. Since thieves still render far later than they become visible (in some cases they do not even render once) you’d be home safe … where, please, is that not broken, hm? Where does this require skill to hit an enemy who’s never able to target you?

Sirendor.1394:

Many more arguments all over the thread, but I think you get the gist. Range is too far which makes it unbalanced when compared with the high damage. Therefore: nerf.

Fun thing … all of a sudden thieves are dying while they had free reign before and now they go and cry nerf. How about nerfing stealth on thieves so that – once revealed – they cannot restealth for 8 seconds? Or how to penalize when attacking from stealth – like 20% damage reduction when attacking from stealth? And how about getting rid of initiative and have them be subject to cooldowns like every other class?

If you play a thief and get killed by rangers so often … finally l2p instead of relying on the absolutely unbalanced stealth/movement/damage combo from the most broken class I ever encountered. When I am around running a power LB build on my ranger most thieves survive the encounter and quite a few win them. So it’s maybe not ranger that is overpowered but maybe you who has possibly adopted a bit too much of a slack playstyle?

When people get more or less insta-killed by thieves everyone says: Well, how about running a bit more defense and not just a glass cannon? Same to you now … the only class that actually is in danger of getting killed by LB 2 is a thief glass cannon. So – do as you expect from all other classes – get some defense as well and live with the fact that you can no longer down enemies in under 5 seconds.

I barely play thief. The rapid fire bug is a common bug and is complained about by more than just thieves, since most groups run a thief for stealth rez alone.

Sirendor.1394:

I barely play thief. The rapid fire bug is a common bug and is complained about by more than just thieves, since most groups run a thief for stealth rez alone.

Channeled attacks tracking through stealth is not a bug, it is an intended game mechanic. If you don’t want to be hit by rapid fire in stealth have the common sense to stealth before or after the channel starts.

Sirendor.1394:

I barely play thief. The rapid fire bug is a common bug and is complained about by more than just thieves, since most groups run a thief for stealth rez alone.

It is not a bug – every chanelling skill behaves this way – it’s not a series of individual attacks (else you’d die rather fast with confusion on) it’s ONE single attack that lasts for a while.

Same as the EoTM zerg-killer wall which is not bugged because every curtain skill behaves exactly the same way. No matter how many people cry nerf for the spectral wall …

You could, of course, combine all rapid fire projectiles into one single shot like it behaves on the rifle warrior … now I’d love to hear the screams then …

Edit: Just had a rather interesting shootout with a warrior who disengaged, switched to bow and then blew me apart. So a warrior with a bow does more damage than a ranger with a bow … shame, eh?

Edit2: More base damage on auto attack (not range based), extra condition damage via burning (I can’t do that), blast finisher (I don’t have), fire field (I don’t have) and an immobilize (which I don’t have either) … I’ll gladly forgo LB 2 if I get all the goodies a warrior has on a LB …

If warrior did more damage with LB auto then you, then he had zerker full ascended and you didn’t or your pet was not attacking.

Simple fact:
Ranger damage = pet + ranger
Ranger LB 1 coeff = 0.5 at minimum range
Most reliable pet is spider due to it being ranged.
Spider AA coeff is 0.35, and its “weapon strength” = 3000

Warrior LB AA has 0.66 coeff
Exotic LB weapon strength average is 1000

Damage formula =
Weapon strength x power x coeff / target defense

We assume just full zerk stats, no traits (ranger benefits more from traits due to more % boosts)

Full zerk power stat (pvp one for simplicity. Wvw id high but i am writing this on a tablet)
Is 1858

Pet stats is separate from ranger stats, so pet power = 1374

We will use heavy dummy golem defense which is 2600

Warrior damage = 1000×1858×0.66/2600 = 471 (for both arrows) pr skill use.

Ranger damage is
1000×1858×0.5/2600 = 357 pr shot
Pet damage is
3000×1374×0.35/2600 = 554 pr shot

Both spider and ranger has skills whith much higher coefficients just like warrior. But end result is that ranger will, even in melee range, unless it stands inside combustive shot for its full duration, win due to coefficients alone.

Prysin.8542:

If warrior did more damage with LB auto then you, then he had zerker full ascended and you didn’t or your pet was not attacking.

Simple fact:
Ranger damage = pet + ranger
Ranger LB 1 coeff = 0.5 at minimum range
Most reliable pet is spider due to it being ranged.
Spider AA coeff is 0.35, and its “weapon strength” = 3000

Warrior LB AA has 0.66 coeff
Exotic LB weapon strength average is 1000

Damage formula =
Weapon strength x power x coeff / target defense

We assume just full zerk stats, no traits (ranger benefits more from traits due to more % boosts)

Full zerk power stat (pvp one for simplicity. Wvw id high but i am writing this on a tablet)
Is 1858

Pet stats is separate from ranger stats, so pet power = 1374

We will use heavy dummy golem defense which is 2600

Warrior damage = 1000×1858×0.66/2600 = 471 (for both arrows) pr skill use.

Ranger damage is
1000×1858×0.5/2600 = 357 pr shot
Pet damage is
3000×1374×0.35/2600 = 554 pr shot

Both spider and ranger has skills whith much higher coefficients just like warrior. But end result is that ranger will, even in melee range, unless it stands inside combustive shot for its full duration, win due to coefficients alone.

Grins … you’re missing a few points in that calculation:

(a) Pets hardly hit if the enemy is moving – said warrior was a pro and he never stood still
(b) Warrior = heavy armor, Ranger = medium armor … you forgot to factor that in your damage calculation
© Warrior = high health pool, Ranger = medium health pool … you also forgot to factor that in your calculation
(d) Warrior = health regen from signet – Ranger needs active one (I used troll unguent) and my skill is VERY slow to execute and that’s where “Fear Me” comes into play …

In WvW you can also factor in applied fortitude and applied strength – I had just entered the game, he had full buffs + he was using buff food something I can’t really afford at the moment since I still try to get an ascended set on my ele) and we may have the diference between full ascended and “just” exotic.

PvP is one thing because of the balance – WvW adds (unfortunately in my point of view) a few things which can have two rangers with the exact same traits and skills behave very differently because of ascended gear, WvW boons and buff food.

feedback kills 5 rangers every 32 seconds i fail to see how rangers could possibly be OP if anything they need a couple of their pokes or CC to be unblockable or atleast give them a signet active that lets them gain 3 seconds of projectile absorbtion

Rangerdeity.5847:

feedback kills 5 rangers every 32 seconds i fail to see how rangers could possibly be OP if anything they need a couple of their pokes or CC to be unblockable or atleast give them a signet active that lets them gain 3 seconds of projectile absorbtion

Axe has a nice option for projectiles and reflection is so much better than absorbtion

I’d be happy if most ranger skills wouldn’t need that long to execute so that they’re easily interrupted. Take guardians or warriors … no “silence” in this game and no way to interrupt a shout or break a stance … GW 1 was way more balanced in this respect as almost every option had a counter (but for shadowform for a long, long while but even then you could be damaged through shadowform by AoE).

HtFde.3856:

Prysin.8542:

If warrior did more damage with LB auto then you, then he had zerker full ascended and you didn’t or your pet was not attacking.

Simple fact:
Ranger damage = pet + ranger
Ranger LB 1 coeff = 0.5 at minimum range
Most reliable pet is spider due to it being ranged.
Spider AA coeff is 0.35, and its “weapon strength” = 3000

Warrior LB AA has 0.66 coeff
Exotic LB weapon strength average is 1000

Damage formula =
Weapon strength x power x coeff / target defense

We assume just full zerk stats, no traits (ranger benefits more from traits due to more % boosts)

Full zerk power stat (pvp one for simplicity. Wvw id high but i am writing this on a tablet)
Is 1858

Pet stats is separate from ranger stats, so pet power = 1374

We will use heavy dummy golem defense which is 2600

Warrior damage = 1000×1858×0.66/2600 = 471 (for both arrows) pr skill use.

Ranger damage is
1000×1858×0.5/2600 = 357 pr shot
Pet damage is
3000×1374×0.35/2600 = 554 pr shot

Both spider and ranger has skills whith much higher coefficients just like warrior. But end result is that ranger will, even in melee range, unless it stands inside combustive shot for its full duration, win due to coefficients alone.

Grins … you’re missing a few points in that calculation:

(a) Pets hardly hit if the enemy is moving – said warrior was a pro and he never stood still
(b) Warrior = heavy armor, Ranger = medium armor … you forgot to factor that in your damage calculation
© Warrior = high health pool, Ranger = medium health pool … you also forgot to factor that in your calculation
(d) Warrior = health regen from signet – Ranger needs active one (I used troll unguent) and my skill is VERY slow to execute and that’s where “Fear Me” comes into play …

In WvW you can also factor in applied fortitude and applied strength – I had just entered the game, he had full buffs + he was using buff food something I can’t really afford at the moment since I still try to get an ascended set on my ele) and we may have the diference between full ascended and “just” exotic.

PvP is one thing because of the balance – WvW adds (unfortunately in my point of view) a few things which can have two rangers with the exact same traits and skills behave very differently because of ascended gear, WvW boons and buff food.

Sorry dude, but if you lost to a bow warr with a bow ranger you simply got outplayed and or had badly set up build.
Sure bow warr can lay down some hurt, but a ranger with a solid glass build has more then enough tools to shut down a bow warrior.

Healing signet does give you slightly better healier per sec then troll unguet, on the contrary though, you should by now, know how to properly use TU in a LB build (stealth or KB before using the heal.

I can with certainty say that in a ranged vs ranged battle, if you lose as ranger both prior to buffs and after, you got outplayed. There is no legitimate excuse other then that. Our utility, sustain and damage at range is the best in the game at single target. We only lose out to eles if we consider AOE multi target DPS.

Rangerdeity.5847:

feedback kills 5 rangers every 32 seconds i fail to see how rangers could possibly be OP if anything they need a couple of their pokes or CC to be unblockable or atleast give them a signet active that lets them gain 3 seconds of projectile absorbtion

Rangers have 5 full seconds of projectile reflection (with the added bonus of gaining retal) using axe offhand.

A warrior has, at most, 5.25 seconds, and it requires an additional trait (missile deflection), and the usage of both offhand sword and offhand shield. If just running OH shield, they have 3 seconds… and they still have to sacrifice a trait in a line that would usually be better spent elsewhere.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

A warrior has, at most, 5.25 seconds, and it requires an additional trait (missile deflection), and the usage of both offhand sword and offhand shield. If just running OH shield, they have 3 seconds… and they still have to sacrifice a trait in a line that would usually be better spent elsewhere.

Mace mainhand has a 1,5 second block too, so you can in theory have 6,75 seconds of blocking. Would be a pretty weird build though.

Ranger so op. After day playing i play ranger more effective than i play ele after 3k hours. I don’t even remember any skills. I just use elite, signet, barrage, rapid fire and i get lot’s of bags.

Junkpile.7439:

Ranger so op. After day playing i play ranger more effective than i play ele after 3k hours. I don’t even remember any skills. I just use elite, signet, barrage, rapid fire and i get lot’s of bags.

You must be a pretty garbage ele then.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Rangerdeity.5847:

feedback kills 5 rangers every 32 seconds i fail to see how rangers could possibly be OP if anything they need a couple of their pokes or CC to be unblockable or atleast give them a signet active that lets them gain 3 seconds of projectile absorbtion

Rangers have 5 full seconds of projectile reflection (with the added bonus of gaining retal) using axe offhand.

A warrior has, at most, 5.25 seconds, and it requires an additional trait (missile deflection), and the usage of both offhand sword and offhand shield. If just running OH shield, they have 3 seconds… and they still have to sacrifice a trait in a line that would usually be better spent elsewhere.

mace + shield = 4.5 seconds
X + sword = another 2.25 seconds
That is 6.75 seconds.

Mace 2 cooldown = 10 sec normal, 8 traited
Rapidfire cooldown = 10 sec normal, 8 traited

When warriors take Missile Deflection, Mace 2 and Sword 5 reflects ALL projectiles, without this trait they block ONE projectile, rapid fire is comprised of 10 shots, so it will only stop 1/10 shots untraited.

Ive spent A LOT of time playing mace shield, Axe Axe in PvP, and some in WvW.
Rangers have ONE massive weakness, that is hard CC spam. They got one very long stability uptime, but once that is gone, they got NADA, NIX, NOTHING. So stunlock warrior works, and it works VERY well against them. Now all you need is ONE trait, ONE SINGLE TRAIT to make a rangers or lich necros life a living hell, that is missile deflection. Because once they eat their own attacks, they panic. And what do you do as warrior? Smack em in the head with a mace or a shield, or something else that hurts like eviscerate.

FYI: this is my PvP setup (focused around multinode support with AOE regen banners)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQRBHhl21ITHdeWGiLI0hGoKIweEorPd2bLA-TpBHABMVGA3DCQBHBAAeAACt/QAnAAA

sometimes i use the vitality + tougness banner instead, depending on team setup.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Junkpile.7439:

Ranger so op. After day playing i play ranger more effective than i play ele after 3k hours. I don’t even remember any skills. I just use elite, signet, barrage, rapid fire and i get lot’s of bags.

You must be a pretty garbage ele then.

Well this just tell how op class ranger is. I play ele much much better than i play ranger and still ranger is superior.

Junkpile.7439:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Junkpile.7439:

Ranger so op. After day playing i play ranger more effective than i play ele after 3k hours. I don’t even remember any skills. I just use elite, signet, barrage, rapid fire and i get lot’s of bags.

You must be a pretty garbage ele then.

Well this just tell how op class ranger is. I play ele much much better than i play ranger and still ranger is superior.

then you are indeed a garbage ele. that or you had some beginners luck with that ranger.

that being said, the grass always seems greener when you swap to something you usually dont use, i had the same feeling when i tried to main warrior after 1900 hours on ranger. Seemed to be so much more effective, until i counted the kills on a good ranger game vs a good warrior game. Lets just say, i was 35 kills over warrior with my ranger.

Junkpile.7439:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Junkpile.7439:

Ranger so op. After day playing i play ranger more effective than i play ele after 3k hours. I don’t even remember any skills. I just use elite, signet, barrage, rapid fire and i get lot’s of bags.

You must be a pretty garbage ele then.

Well this just tell how op class ranger is. I play ele much much better than i play ranger and still ranger is superior.

You blow a bunch of cooldowns on one easily dodged burst without cc’ing or drawing out their dodges and stun breaks, and to top things off you are opening with barrage!? Who are you fighting, the test golems?

If you are more effective running this combo than you are on your ele…. Wow… Just… Wow. You should probably just uninstall.

Lol I just looked at the name and realized I was calling ”junk pile” garbage. At least he’s upfront about things.

Well when there is 50-80 enemies barrage works just fine.

Junkpile.7439:

Well when there is 50-80 enemies barrage works just fine.

So you’re tagging a zerg, hoping that your zerg wins, and that you don’t die to retal… and this is you being more effective than you are on your ele? I… I don’t know what’s left to say… every time you respond you are just making yourself look worse…

Jim Hunter.6821:

Junkpile.7439:

Well when there is 50-80 enemies barrage works just fine.

So you’re tagging a zerg, hoping that your zerg wins, and that you don’t die to retal… and this is you being more effective than you are on your ele? I… I don’t know what’s left to say… every time you respond you are just making yourself look worse…

You think that people stack retaliation in EotM.

Junkpile.7439:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Junkpile.7439:

Well when there is 50-80 enemies barrage works just fine.

So you’re tagging a zerg, hoping that your zerg wins, and that you don’t die to retal… and this is you being more effective than you are on your ele? I… I don’t know what’s left to say… every time you respond you are just making yourself look worse…

You think that people stack retaliation in EotM.

Bwahahaha! So now you are basing your arguments on eotm zergs?! You were better off when I assumed you were basing your arguments off of the test golems.

Lookout everyone, this guy nailed the real problem. Rangers are OP against uplevel eotm pug zergs. Guess they need a nerf because only the best of the best can beat an uplevel eotm pug.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Junkpile.7439:

Well when there is 50-80 enemies barrage works just fine.

So you’re tagging a zerg, hoping that your zerg wins, and that you don’t die to retal… and this is you being more effective than you are on your ele? I… I don’t know what’s left to say… every time you respond you are just making yourself look worse…

Lol, junkpile is just an amazing troll (no offense), you should never take him seriously

Hmm.. here in Tier 1 wvw , rangers are considered a portable arrow cart, and are frequently called on by zerg commanders to take out cannons, oil, trebs and other targets that are not easily reached. They call on rangers directly in the zerg to serve their purpose. I have a ranger, but it is not my primary class, however, and have been asked to get my ranger since I do not usually play on it. I think you are mistaken about how they are utilized in wvw.

Having commanders that do not know how to utilize the classes is a lacking commander, not a an issue with the classes themselves. I wonder how OP it is going to be as a druid? LOL

Today i did lose against some other longbow ranger. I didn’t remember that i have stealth skill and protect me doesn’t seem to work if pet is dead (bug or something?). I did forget use dodge too because i use dodge so rarely or if i use i just spam it when i am middle of enemy zerg. That gold invader or something jumped over my body like crazy. Well i would feel like pro too if i would manage kill platinum assaulter.

Junkpile.7439:

Today i did lose against some other longbow ranger. I didn’t remember that i have stealth skill and protect me doesn’t seem to work if pet is dead (bug or something?). I did forget use dodge too because i use dodge so rarely or if i use i just spam it when i am middle of enemy zerg. That gold invader or something jumped over my body like crazy. Well i would feel like pro too if i would manage kill platinum assaulter.

Wow… If you aren’t a troll then you are the perfect example of the type of player that thinks rangers are op.

Prysin.8542:

Junkpile.7439:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Junkpile.7439:

Ranger so op. After day playing i play ranger more effective than i play ele after 3k hours. I don’t even remember any skills. I just use elite, signet, barrage, rapid fire and i get lot’s of bags.

You must be a pretty garbage ele then.

Well this just tell how op class ranger is. I play ele much much better than i play ranger and still ranger is superior.

then you are indeed a garbage ele. that or you had some beginners luck with that ranger.

that being said, the grass always seems greener when you swap to something you usually dont use, i had the same feeling when i tried to main warrior after 1900 hours on ranger. Seemed to be so much more effective, until i counted the kills on a good ranger game vs a good warrior game. Lets just say, i was 35 kills over warrior with my ranger.

I think what he’s trying to say is that to make 75% the damage of a ranger on the ele you have to pull off a perfect 10-skill combo chain while dodging like a monkey, and it’s still going to take twice more time to do the damage.

The longbow damage is too much, no other reason is needed to nerf it.
It can do 20k damage to a single target within the duration of a necro fear, from 1500+ range (depending on terrain) and that is game breaking.

The only question is why would they buff it in the first place? Nobody was complaining before, now it’s has become just an annoyance to the game. Root duration is also too long for a class with that high dps.

How should they nerf it? Simple: Invert the mechanic, make it do less damage the further away you are.

Xillllix.3485:

How should they nerf it? Simple: Invert the mechanic, make it do less damage the further away you are.

Fantastic idea, make the longbow a melee weapon….

Quick question, are you also an eotm player that doesn’t know how to dodge?

Prysin.8542:

HtFde.3856:

Prysin.8542:

If warrior did more damage with LB auto then you, then he had zerker full ascended and you didn’t or your pet was not attacking.

Simple fact:
Ranger damage = pet + ranger
Ranger LB 1 coeff = 0.5 at minimum range
Most reliable pet is spider due to it being ranged.
Spider AA coeff is 0.35, and its “weapon strength” = 3000

Warrior LB AA has 0.66 coeff
Exotic LB weapon strength average is 1000

Damage formula =
Weapon strength x power x coeff / target defense

We assume just full zerk stats, no traits (ranger benefits more from traits due to more % boosts)

Full zerk power stat (pvp one for simplicity. Wvw id high but i am writing this on a tablet)
Is 1858

Pet stats is separate from ranger stats, so pet power = 1374

We will use heavy dummy golem defense which is 2600

Warrior damage = 1000×1858×0.66/2600 = 471 (for both arrows) pr skill use.

Ranger damage is
1000×1858×0.5/2600 = 357 pr shot
Pet damage is
3000×1374×0.35/2600 = 554 pr shot

Both spider and ranger has skills whith much higher coefficients just like warrior. But end result is that ranger will, even in melee range, unless it stands inside combustive shot for its full duration, win due to coefficients alone.

Grins … you’re missing a few points in that calculation:

(a) Pets hardly hit if the enemy is moving – said warrior was a pro and he never stood still
(b) Warrior = heavy armor, Ranger = medium armor … you forgot to factor that in your damage calculation
© Warrior = high health pool, Ranger = medium health pool … you also forgot to factor that in your calculation
(d) Warrior = health regen from signet – Ranger needs active one (I used troll unguent) and my skill is VERY slow to execute and that’s where “Fear Me” comes into play …

In WvW you can also factor in applied fortitude and applied strength – I had just entered the game, he had full buffs + he was using buff food something I can’t really afford at the moment since I still try to get an ascended set on my ele) and we may have the diference between full ascended and “just” exotic.

PvP is one thing because of the balance – WvW adds (unfortunately in my point of view) a few things which can have two rangers with the exact same traits and skills behave very differently because of ascended gear, WvW boons and buff food.

Sorry dude, but if you lost to a bow warr with a bow ranger you simply got outplayed and or had badly set up build.
Sure bow warr can lay down some hurt, but a ranger with a solid glass build has more then enough tools to shut down a bow warrior.

Healing signet does give you slightly better healier per sec then troll unguet, on the contrary though, you should by now, know how to properly use TU in a LB build (stealth or KB before using the heal.

I can with certainty say that in a ranged vs ranged battle, if you lose as ranger both prior to buffs and after, you got outplayed. There is no legitimate excuse other then that. Our utility, sustain and damage at range is the best in the game at single target. We only lose out to eles if we consider AOE multi target DPS.

I am with you but … there was no range

First encounter was bad for him and he disengaged and ran off (1/5th life left but, hey, catch a warrior ….) – I turned around and moved back to where I came from and he jumped (after switching to LB because he was running 2 melee weapons prior to that) from a cliff above me in right in front of me – cursed mobility of warriors + I had to wait a bit to cap the sentry which gave him time to re-arm, possibly re-trait and re-turn and have re-venge.

So no range advantage at all but a dire disadvantage being nose to nose – in addition to that he was quite clever at keeping the cliff behind him so my #4 kicked him only a few feet, not enough for LB damage bonus.

Melee wise I was S/WH from running to a camp and I didn’t want to duke it out in melee with a warrior + one of my pets was sub choice for roaming – I still had a tank bear from the camp capture.

Funny experience, though

Xillllix.3485:

Prysin.8542:

Junkpile.7439:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Junkpile.7439:

Ranger so op. After day playing i play ranger more effective than i play ele after 3k hours. I don’t even remember any skills. I just use elite, signet, barrage, rapid fire and i get lot’s of bags.

You must be a pretty garbage ele then.

Well this just tell how op class ranger is. I play ele much much better than i play ranger and still ranger is superior.

then you are indeed a garbage ele. that or you had some beginners luck with that ranger.

that being said, the grass always seems greener when you swap to something you usually dont use, i had the same feeling when i tried to main warrior after 1900 hours on ranger. Seemed to be so much more effective, until i counted the kills on a good ranger game vs a good warrior game. Lets just say, i was 35 kills over warrior with my ranger.

I think what he’s trying to say is that to make 75% the damage of a ranger on the ele you have to pull off a perfect 10-skill combo chain while dodging like a monkey, and it’s still going to take twice more time to do the damage.

The longbow damage is too much, no other reason is needed to nerf it.
It can do 20k damage to a single target within the duration of a necro fear, from 1500+ range (depending on terrain) and that is game breaking.

The only question is why would they buff it in the first place? Nobody was complaining before, now it’s has become just an annoyance to the game. Root duration is also too long for a class with that high dps.

How should they nerf it? Simple: Invert the mechanic, make it do less damage the further away you are.

Or just burning speed into a fire grab?

The Ranger needed burst damage. Ever seen a power ranger go up against a shout Warrior? The Warrior AFK’d through the damage the Ranger did.

Now is it too high, that’s up for debate. The only thing we know is that Rangers didn’t make it into the meta for PvP or WvW with this change so while it may have been too much, it clearly wasn’t enough to make a difference.

Want to reduce the damage by 25%? Start coming up with improvements elsewhere to compensate the class.

Tom Gore.4035:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

A warrior has, at most, 5.25 seconds, and it requires an additional trait (missile deflection), and the usage of both offhand sword and offhand shield. If just running OH shield, they have 3 seconds… and they still have to sacrifice a trait in a line that would usually be better spent elsewhere.

Mace mainhand has a 1,5 second block too, so you can in theory have 6,75 seconds of blocking. Would be a pretty weird build though.

Right, been a long time since I used mace mainhand. Sword offhand is generally used in condi builds, so yeah I could see it being a bit of a weird setup to run mace+sw or sh, and whatever+sw or shield.

Well balance patch got out and condition ranger got stronger. Support was marginally improved and the global nerf to might didnt hurt them that much

i wonder what the people that are defending lb ranger are playing in wvw most of the time. Are you guys even roam? and if so do you roam with 5 men all in pvt to cap a camp? are you playing with dire perplexity gear?
Its a whole diffrent experience, if rapidfire hits u for lets say 4k or if it hits you for 10k, if the auto hits you for 4k or for 1k from a 1500 range.
I think if you really wanna know whats going on with ranger atm you have to play one and see for yourself… Maybe i should record a bit ranger lb gameplay.

I think rangers are in a good place at the moment. I solo roam as a full berserker S/D thief and longbow rangers are free kills. In group fights, just focus on them first. Most of the time, they down themselves with reflects from Dagger Storm. It’s the melee/condition rangers that I have to worry about…

Weez.6315:

i wonder what the people that are defending lb ranger are playing in wvw most of the time. Are you guys even roam? and if so do you roam with 5 men all in pvt to cap a camp? are you playing with dire perplexity gear?
Its a whole diffrent experience, if rapidfire hits u for lets say 4k or if it hits you for 10k, if the auto hits you for 4k or for 1k from a 1500 range.
I think if you really wanna know whats going on with ranger atm you have to play one and see for yourself… Maybe i should record a bit ranger lb gameplay.

I do mostly solo roaming, usually with my trapper ranger and s/d thief, sometimes I use LB ranger to scout.

LB ranger is good yes, but it’s far less powerfull than trapper ranger and other builds, if you can’t win against a LB ranger you have 0 chances to survive vs most roaming builds.

Weez.6315:

i wonder what the people that are defending lb ranger are playing in wvw most of the time. Are you guys even roam? and if so do you roam with 5 men all in pvt to cap a camp? are you playing with dire perplexity gear?
Its a whole diffrent experience, if rapidfire hits u for lets say 4k or if it hits you for 10k, if the auto hits you for 4k or for 1k from a 1500 range.
I think if you really wanna know whats going on with ranger atm you have to play one and see for yourself… Maybe i should record a bit ranger lb gameplay.

i run apothecary + rabid condi ranger or zerker + clerics warrior.

But if “hours on ranger” is what counts i got two rangers (had a third asura one for a lil while) so total time on rangers are around 1800-1900.

Time spent with a longbow BEFORE buffs – 500-600 hours at least, after buffs less then 200 hours.
Why? Because i was part of the group of people that spent a LOT of time trying to explain HOW TO LEGITIMATELY COUNTER LB NABS. It is not a rocket science, there is 11 easy to use counters avaliable to most classes, EXCEPT, necromancer. Necro has a legitimate complaint VS LB ranger and that one should be addressed by giving necro a suitable buff.