Guild Wars 2

MethaneGas.8357:

Crapgame.6519:

Seriously, stop it already. There is effort. There is risk. I can’t help it if the person I’m using Rapid Fire doesn’t have good situation awareness. If my target had any sense at all they would:

Dodge
LoS
Hide behind a tree (except Dolly Parton)
Hide behind ambient creatures, dead yaks, guards, NPCs, etc
Jump into a lower part of terrain / use height
Charge ranger
Reflect
Retaliation

Effort in pressing a button and watching things die from miles away? Honestly… any other zerk class has to try 10 times harder to deal high damage and they are all 10 times more risky than a ranger.

Ok so you can dodge one auto attack, another auto attack, sure… then comes Rapid Fire… you gotta dodge that, or there comes the knock back, you gotta dodge that too because if you don’t you’ll eat Rapid Fire… then there’s entangle, the pet fear or immob… all the while the auto attacks are wrecking you. So how many dodges are we supposed to have? Especially when you’re already fighting someone else. Last time I checked, I had about 2.

Crapgame.6519:

Lastly, if you leave the ranger alone behind the line you reap what you sow. You have a team and there are members of that team designed to counter that. I’ll put it this way. The problem isn’t the Ranger or the range. It is the design of the game in that everyone looks at the bags of skittles on the ground, aka loot, rather than playing as a team and doing a job.

Ah so while I’m running from a group, kiting I’m just gonna somehow make the newly arrived ranger disappear? Maybe I’ll tell my thief friend to go after him! Oh wait… they’re immune to damage for 5 seconds… oh wait… they’ve got Sic’ Em. Oh wait… they’re 1500 units away from the actual fight… Oh wait… there’s 2 of them, and now you’re Entangled.

It’s funny people think pressing more bottoms = more effort. Maybe people really are clueless. We press those because we’re “mechanically limited” by the things we can do to dish out damage. Just like Necro spamming wells/ marks to a zerg, it doesn’t take effort to click some wells and kill alot of people in an area. It’s mechanic. Just because you press more bottoms don’t mean you spend alot of effort lol..

TakeCare.3182:

Puck.9612:

You said it yourself. What’s left to discuss?

I’ll just quote what I said earlier. Just because there is counterplay to something doesn’t mean it isn’t overpowered.

TakeCare.3182:

There was counterplay to Perplexity runes the day they were released. Did that stop them from being the most overpowered rune set in the game? Nope. Or perhaps we could say that the bugged mesmer falling damage trait wasn’t broken, but a lack of situational awareness on the part of those who died.

The argument defending longbow rangers is that they CAN be countered, but counters don’t make something balanced (though they help). It’s about risk/reward and input/output. If someone can do tons of damage safely with no risk and little input, it needs adjusted. If rangers had all of this kill pressure, but they had to go into melee or channel for a long time or pull off a specific combo, it would be 100% fine. But right now, they don’t have to do anything. They just stand there. It’s safe. It’s effective. It’s broken.

The point is how many counter-play. Power ranger doesn’t exist in high-end pvp because they are too many “hard counters”, and they bring nothing in a group fight.

Jana.6831:

Puck.9612:

….. Rangers don’t have to move!? You haven’t spent a lot of time roaming as a ranger have you? Give it a try sometime but be prepared to be insta focused in every fight.

Puck, I get that “rangers are so poor and soo underpowered and desperately need a buff” but it’s impossible to discuss with you because all you want is to get that point across.
Spend some time in wvw, ok? Preferably as a thief because in that case you really need to know what your opponent does and need to react accordingly, no facerolling with that class. And if you do so you will realize that most classes don’t need a buff, they just need to know when to use what skill.

Riiiight. So me saying that longbow rangers are an extremely tough fight for necro’s somehow equals me saying, “rangers are so poor and soo underpowered and desperately need a buff”

I spend 90% of my game time in WvW. I have at least 1 of every profession and I roam on all of them. You need to try playing something other than a thief so that you better understand how the other classes work.

For the record I’ve actually been playing the hell out of my thief the past few days. I’ve been goofing off with my P/P build since anet left ricochet out of the patch notes and I’m worried we are losing it. I absolutely wrecked 2 rangers a couple of days ago in a 1v2 by popping multiple unloads, porting to them and dodge rolling through them to break their projectiles, and popping dagger storm to reflect a rapid fire. Incredibly easy fight when you know how to counter them and don’t rely on stealth to carry you.

Toxsa.2701:

It’s funny people think pressing more bottoms = more effort. Maybe people really are clueless. We press those because we’re “mechanically limited” by the things we can do to dish out damage. Just like Necro spamming wells/ marks to a zerg, it doesn’t take effort to click some wells and kill alot of people in an area. It’s mechanic. Just because you press more bottoms don’t mean you spend alot of effort lol..

Plus, tons just use macros to pull off impossible combinations.

TakeCare.3182:

How anyone could possibly justify 3k auto attacks from 1500 range is beyond me. With Fire and Air, one auto attack can take out 1/3-1/4 of your total HP. Simply broken.

I can get closer to 4K fully buffed. Just sayin…

some one craft a Uber glass Warroir and use a Axe see the difference 2.1k x4 in 1sec. wows so not op.

3k-4k vs 6.3-8.4k over a average of 1secs to 1.2secs (and that is just Autos) i wonder why Regen exists or blocks exists or ports exists? wether your glass or fighting a glass targets to negate Glass specs you must use Active defence or LoS its just too much damage to take face first , you have to prepair and not seeing someone shooting at you ether means your Roaming while watching Tv or your just plain old oblivious.

Btw long range autoattack didn’t get buffed. Even before the lb buffs last year, when lb ranger was considered trash, you could kill ppl with only aa as easy as now. Autoattacking was actually the most efficient way to kill something with lb, because rapidfire was a dps loss at 1k+ range.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

some one craft a Uber glass Warroir and use a Axe see the difference 2.1k x4 in 1sec. wows so not op.

3k-4k vs 6.3-8.4k over a average of 1secs to 1.2secs (and that is just Autos) i wonder why Regen exists or blocks exists or ports exists? wether your glass or fighting a glass targets to negate Glass specs you must use Active defence or LoS its just too much damage to take face first , you have to prepair and not seeing someone shooting at you ether means your Roaming while watching Tv or your just plain old oblivious.

well i got no problem against when im bursted in midle combat form a LB sniper while im fighthing on large group fights, problem is when i notice one of the closest targets is a ranger with lb doing 4k+ damage or close to that(with 15-20 stacks of vuln on me at that time), i could use stability inside WoR but in large groups fight stability gets overwhelmed in 1sec, and easy Kb from it…

The longbow range buff was a well deserve change, rangers should excell at that.

but…

i still say the same it is to easy to pull high damage from LB, on gw1 u had to take in account the distance of the target, wich bow to use due elevation and if its and interrupt skill wich bow has fastest arrow, it was a better system, players need to know how and just not press some skill to get high numbers, but this is gw2 overall dps game the game of play high damage to win mentality…

Anet pulled damage on LB instead of giving them a few mechanics in bow to make them choose weapon wiselly depending the situation and make better effect/role from it, lets just hope damage wont be much higher than we already have…

Aeolus.3615:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

some one craft a Uber glass Warroir and use a Axe see the difference 2.1k x4 in 1sec. wows so not op.

3k-4k vs 6.3-8.4k over a average of 1secs to 1.2secs (and that is just Autos) i wonder why Regen exists or blocks exists or ports exists? wether your glass or fighting a glass targets to negate Glass specs you must use Active defence or LoS its just too much damage to take face first , you have to prepair and not seeing someone shooting at you ether means your Roaming while watching Tv or your just plain old oblivious.

well i got no problem against when im bursted in midle combat form a LB sniper while im fighthing on large group fights, problem is when i notice one of the closest targets is a ranger with lb doing 4k+ damage or close to that(with 15-20 stacks of vuln on me at that time), i could use stability inside WoR but in large groups fight stability gets overwhelmed in 1sec, and easy Kb from it…

The longbow range buff was a well deserve change, rangers should excell at that.

but…

i still say the same it is to easy to pull high damage from LB, on gw1 u had to take in account the distance of the target, wich bow to use due elevation and if its and interrupt skill wich bow has fastest arrow, it was a better system, players need to know how and just not press some skill to get high numbers, but this is gw2 overall dps game the game of play high damage to win mentality…

Anet pulled damage on LB instead of giving them a few mechanics in bow to make them choose weapon wiselly depending the situation and make better effect/role from it, lets just hope damage wont be much higher than we already have…

it is still a very Situational event that it happens , and while fighting in a zerg and get picked off while mid zerg with bodies between takes a lot of timing and aim not to hit those body blockers, so in one sense there is timing .

currently that means the ranger is ether quite close 1200-1300yards away (no Eagle eye) and the Zergs fault for not Protecting flanks where mesmers and thiefs / staff eles should be Mid zerg protecting flanks , though I do hope People Use the reflects they are given when the Reverant is released that heal+reflect has a good long duration on it and it will be a very nice Addition to zergs against this Situation.

Puck.9612:

Riiiight. So me saying that longbow rangers are an extremely tough fight for necro’s somehow equals me saying, “rangers are so poor and soo underpowered and desperately need a buff”

I spend 90% of my game time in WvW. I have at least 1 of every profession and I roam on all of them. You need to try playing something other than a thief so that you better understand how the other classes work.

For the record I’ve actually been playing the hell out of my thief the past few days. I’ve been goofing off with my P/P build since anet left ricochet out of the patch notes and I’m worried we are losing it. I absolutely wrecked 2 rangers a couple of days ago in a 1v2 by popping multiple unloads, porting to them and dodge rolling through them to break their projectiles, and popping dagger storm to reflect a rapid fire. Incredibly easy fight when you know how to counter them and don’t rely on stealth to carry you.

Alright, so P/P – good.
And you wrecked 2 rangers who don’t need to learn to play because their class doesn’t teach them to – good job.
Some day you’ll get my point.

Jana.6831:

Puck.9612:

Riiiight. So me saying that longbow rangers are an extremely tough fight for necro’s somehow equals me saying, “rangers are so poor and soo underpowered and desperately need a buff”

I spend 90% of my game time in WvW. I have at least 1 of every profession and I roam on all of them. You need to try playing something other than a thief so that you better understand how the other classes work.

For the record I’ve actually been playing the hell out of my thief the past few days. I’ve been goofing off with my P/P build since anet left ricochet out of the patch notes and I’m worried we are losing it. I absolutely wrecked 2 rangers a couple of days ago in a 1v2 by popping multiple unloads, porting to them and dodge rolling through them to break their projectiles, and popping dagger storm to reflect a rapid fire. Incredibly easy fight when you know how to counter them and don’t rely on stealth to carry you.

Alright, so P/P – good.
And you wrecked 2 rangers who don’t need to learn to play because their class doesn’t teach them to – good job.
Some day you’ll get my point.

P/P has nothing to do with it. They would have gone down even faster if I had been running d/d or d/p. The thing is I play multiple classes so I’m used to actively avoiding damage instead of hopping into stealth and expecting to be invincible.

I broke their LoS by playing smart and used a reflect. I was able to do this in a 1v2 against the supposed oh so OP faceroll class that you are having such a hard time with.

Puck.9612:

P/P has nothing to do with it. They would have gone down even faster if I had been running d/d or d/p. The thing is I play multiple classes so I’m used to actively avoiding damage instead of hopping into stealth and expecting to be invincible.

I broke their LoS by playing smart and used a reflect. I was able to do this in a 1v2 against the supposed oh so OP faceroll class that you are having such a hard time with.

You don’t know how I play and you refuse to get anything of what I’m saying since you came to this thread – so…

Jana.6831:

Puck.9612:

P/P has nothing to do with it. They would have gone down even faster if I had been running d/d or d/p. The thing is I play multiple classes so I’m used to actively avoiding damage instead of hopping into stealth and expecting to be invincible.

I broke their LoS by playing smart and used a reflect. I was able to do this in a 1v2 against the supposed oh so OP faceroll class that you are having such a hard time with.

You don’t know how I play and you refuse to get anything of what I’m saying since you came to this thread – so…

I know enough about how you play just from what you’ve said in this thread. Especially when you said that if you were on necro you would just well someone and watch them die lol.

I’m not “refusing” what you say, I am countering your terrible arguments. Come back with better ones.

Puck.9612:

I know enough about how you play just from what you’ve said in this thread.

You don’t

Puck.9612:

Especially when you said that if you were on necro you would just well someone and watch them die lol.

Here’s toyou – and I didn’t know of that video before:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Video-on-how-to-kill-a-Ranger-in-WvW/

Jana.6831:

Puck.9612:

I know enough about how you play just from what you’ve said in this thread.

You don’t

Puck.9612:

Especially when you said that if you were on necro you would just well someone and watch them die lol.

Here’s toyou – and I didn’t know of that video before:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Video-on-how-to-kill-a-Ranger-in-WvW/

I’m confused…. is this video to show how faceroll OP rangers are?

Puck.9612:

I’m confused…. is this video to show how faceroll OP rangers are?

See, if you had read anything of what I wrote and which you redeemed as ridiculous try hard arguments, you would’ve noticed that the guy in this video almost exactly fights the ranger like I said I would.

Puck.9612:

I know enough about how you play just from what you’ve said in this thread. Especially when you said that if you were on necro you would just well someone and watch them die lol.

And if you had read any of the other stuff I wrote you would’ve noticed that I never said rangers were OP.

But since talking to you is offtopic – have fun.

Jana.6831:

Puck.9612:

I’m confused…. is this video to show how faceroll OP rangers are?

See, if you had read anything of what I wrote and which you redeemed as ridiculous try hard arguments, you would’ve noticed that the guy in this video almost exactly fights the ranger like I said I would.

Puck.9612:

I know enough about how you play just from what you’ve said in this thread. Especially when you said that if you were on necro you would just well someone and watch them die lol.

And if you had read any of the other stuff I wrote you would’ve noticed that I never said rangers were OP.

But since talking to you is offtopic – have fun.

You said you would death shroud 2- which he tried and failed to hit the ranger with. In fact the only reason it slightly helped is because the ranger was using a ranged pet and not managing it.
Then you would drop wells, which would assume you planned to run power- This necro was running hybrid against a ranger with no active condi removal. About 75% of the damage the ranger took was from condi’s he couldn’t clear.

Nothing of what you said had anything to do with this fight.

He used deathshroud 2 as a gap closer – it’s rare that everything works out as planned but he did close the gap. And the ranger was better than most rangers I see in wvw.
Wells do enough damage no matter the build. And the point is: the necro wasn’t helpless against a LB ranger like you guys suggested – the fight might have been longer if no condi gear had been involved, but still even a defenseless necro has got enough means to fight a ranger/anything.

Its quite obvious we will never get to a conclusion in this thread, but sure, have at it and amuse the spectators.

Jana.6831:

He used deathshroud 2 as a gap closer – it’s rare that everything works out as planned but he did close the gap. And the ranger was better than most rangers I see in wvw.
Wells do enough damage no matter the build. And the point is: the necro wasn’t helpless against a LB ranger like you guys suggested – the fight might have been longer if no condi gear had been involved, but still even a defenseless necro has got enough means to fight a ranger/anything.

I never said a necro is helpless against a ranger, I said it is an extremely difficult fight. Just like condi anything vs a condi necro is an extremely hard fight. There are build in this game that completely counter others when played at the same skill level.

The fight would have likely ended with the ranger winning if no condi gear was involved even though the ranger was mediocre at best. He built around trying to hide in stealth and continued to play like that instead of being aggressive. The problem with that is he was letting himself get loaded up with condi’s before hiding in stealth so he was taking a lot of damage while the necro was taking none.

The ranger made a lot of mistakes and let the necro completely outplay him, and it was still an extremely close fight.

Puck.9612:

I never said a necro is helpless against a ranger, I said it is an extremely difficult fight. Just like condi anything vs a condi necro is an extremely hard fight. There are build in this game that completely counter others when played at the same skill level.

Every fight against a non potato is extremely difficult – that’s why wvw is so good.

Puck.9612:

The fight would have likely ended with the ranger winning if no condi gear was involved even though the ranger was mediocre at best. He built around trying to hide in stealth and continued to play like that instead of being aggressive. The problem with that is he was letting himself get loaded up with condi’s before hiding in stealth so he was taking a lot of damage while the necro was taking none.

Then do me a favour, make some videos and show us how you play.

Puck.9612:

The ranger made a lot of mistakes and let the necro completely outplay him, and it was still an extremely close fight.

I said nothing else- we can analyze this more if entangeled is “OP”, if rapidfire is OP, if being able to stealth while having the skill to deny other classes to stealth is “OP” or if death shroud is “OP”, if the condis are “OP” (base condis), then also if condis are “OP” in general – point is: both of them have equal chances to win this fight.

Jana.6831:

Puck.9612:

I never said a necro is helpless against a ranger, I said it is an extremely difficult fight. Just like condi anything vs a condi necro is an extremely hard fight. There are build in this game that completely counter others when played at the same skill level.

Every fight against a non potato is extremely difficult – that’s why wvw is so good.

Puck.9612:

The fight would have likely ended with the ranger winning if no condi gear was involved even though the ranger was mediocre at best. He built around trying to hide in stealth and continued to play like that instead of being aggressive. The problem with that is he was letting himself get loaded up with condi’s before hiding in stealth so he was taking a lot of damage while the necro was taking none.

Then do me a favour, make some videos and show us how you play.

Puck.9612:

The ranger made a lot of mistakes and let the necro completely outplay him, and it was still an extremely close fight.

I said nothing else- we can analyze this more if entangeled is “OP”, if rapidfire is OP, if being able to stealth while having the skill to deny other classes to stealth is “OP” or if death shroud is “OP”, if the condis are “OP” (base condis), then also if condis are “OP” in general – point is: both of them have equal chances to win this fight.

They don’t have equal chances.

Ranger vs thieves have equal chances. Ranger’s have good burst and counters to stealth, and thieves have counters to range and projectiles.

A necro has limited ways to counter a rangers CC’s and close the gap. They can win by outplaying a ranger but outplaying isn’t the same as having an equal chance.

It’s like saying a thief has an equal chance to kill an engi (especially after the new RIP stealth trait they are getting). It’s not going to be impossible for a thief but the engi definitely has the advantage.

Toxsa.2701:

TakeCare.3182:

Puck.9612:

You said it yourself. What’s left to discuss?

I’ll just quote what I said earlier. Just because there is counterplay to something doesn’t mean it isn’t overpowered.

TakeCare.3182:

There was counterplay to Perplexity runes the day they were released. Did that stop them from being the most overpowered rune set in the game? Nope. Or perhaps we could say that the bugged mesmer falling damage trait wasn’t broken, but a lack of situational awareness on the part of those who died.

The argument defending longbow rangers is that they CAN be countered, but counters don’t make something balanced (though they help). It’s about risk/reward and input/output. If someone can do tons of damage safely with no risk and little input, it needs adjusted. If rangers had all of this kill pressure, but they had to go into melee or channel for a long time or pull off a specific combo, it would be 100% fine. But right now, they don’t have to do anything. They just stand there. It’s safe. It’s effective. It’s broken.

The point is how many counter-play. Power ranger doesn’t exist in high-end pvp because they are too many “hard counters”, and they bring nothing in a group fight.

I’ve clearly been talking about WvW in every single post I’ve made. Longbow rangers can’t sit in zergs in sPvP so they can actually be punished by their counters. In WvW, they just sit behind 30 people and push 1 (and occasionally 2) while doing the same or more damage than other classes with no risk or skill. They’re not played in sPvP because they’re not broken there. They see tons of play in WvW because they’re hideously overpowered in large groups.

Personally would say ranger longbow could use some tweaks if anything to make them more interesting to play and fight. I see rangers a ton while roaming and most seem to just crumble when you get in melee while interrupting rapid fire. A power ranger is common but a power ranger that knows positioning, kiting and mobility to respond to melee combat is a whole lot rarer.

Currently both rapid fire and auto hits like a truck they can down someone fast if they are in a situation where they can’t control the fight through dodges, line of sight or getting in close which given how open the WvW maps are can be tricky depending on location and class. Apart from those two skills the damage on the rest of longbow isn’t all that great so why not shift damage to those skills instead by adding it to hunter’s shot and barrage? Nerfs the damage on an auto and rapid fire while balancing the weapon a bit to compensate and a buff to the rangers lackluster AoE skill.

I think it is less the damage dealt and more the way it is applied you don’t want to dodge an auto attack because you want to save it for more dangerous skills but you also don’t want to get hit by it since the damage is so high. Even a mediocre ranger can have a large impact on a fight with very little effort on their end which is why they are complained about so much. I wouldn’t call them OP but I would say they need some changes to give more counterplay and to raise the skill floor of the build. Less focus on 1 2 pew pew doing the work and more on good gameplay if you ask me.

TakeCare.3182:

Toxsa.2701:

TakeCare.3182:

Puck.9612:

You said it yourself. What’s left to discuss?

I’ll just quote what I said earlier. Just because there is counterplay to something doesn’t mean it isn’t overpowered.

TakeCare.3182:

There was counterplay to Perplexity runes the day they were released. Did that stop them from being the most overpowered rune set in the game? Nope. Or perhaps we could say that the bugged mesmer falling damage trait wasn’t broken, but a lack of situational awareness on the part of those who died.

The argument defending longbow rangers is that they CAN be countered, but counters don’t make something balanced (though they help). It’s about risk/reward and input/output. If someone can do tons of damage safely with no risk and little input, it needs adjusted. If rangers had all of this kill pressure, but they had to go into melee or channel for a long time or pull off a specific combo, it would be 100% fine. But right now, they don’t have to do anything. They just stand there. It’s safe. It’s effective. It’s broken.

The point is how many counter-play. Power ranger doesn’t exist in high-end pvp because they are too many “hard counters”, and they bring nothing in a group fight.

I’ve clearly been talking about WvW in every single post I’ve made. Longbow rangers can’t sit in zergs in sPvP so they can actually be punished by their counters. In WvW, they just sit behind 30 people and push 1 (and occasionally 2) while doing the same or more damage than other classes with no risk or skill. They’re not played in sPvP because they’re not broken there. They see tons of play in WvW because they’re hideously overpowered in large groups.

If rangers are being allowed to free fire than your zerg is pretty crappy, send someone to deal with them or get your own rangers to focus theirs.

So, I stopped reading around page 5, but here are some reactions I had to some of the points I’ve seen:

• LB Rangers are OP when they +1 a fight

So wait, you’re complaining that a ranger can burst you down while you’re paying attention to another player? Rangers are by far not the most effective at this. Our main burst option takes time to realize it’s full damage potential. Have you ever been +1ed by a Thief? A Meditation Guardian? A Hammer Warrior? There are so many professions that are better at this than ranger.

• Being able to counter an LB ranger doesn’t make it balanced

This is completely silly. Balance is the presence of effective play and counter play for all available professions. I used to suck at countering thieves on my engineer… until I learned how to counter thieves on my engineer (I didn’t even have to change my build!). Every profession has an effective counterplay for every other profession. That’s balance.

• Rangers are too strong in Zergs.

Yeah, let’s hate on all of the ‘zerker wearing thugs that wreck my face while hiding in a zerg. Let’s nerf staff Eles while we’re at it. And grenade Engineers… wait, you mean that everyone who has a ranged burst option benefits from hiding on walls or behind friends? Clearly playing in groups and standing on walls is unbalanced and ArenaNet needs to change it immediately.

• Rangers that are bad players have too easy of a time

Bad players die. It doesn’t matter what profession they belong to. A monkey that knows how to click a mouse can perform a high burst backstab as a thief, that doesn’t mean that it’s unbalanced… it means that professions are good at the things they’re designed to be good at. Thieves are great at melee bursts; rangers are great at ranged sustained DPS (honestly, far from the best burst in the game); Guardians are great at support sustain. If you can’t avoid being killed by a bad ranger, then you need to learn how to avoid being killed by a bad ranger. It’s really, really not that hard. If you’re annoyed that you got last-hit by a noob in a zerg, then welcome to the club. It happens to everyone.

• Groups of Rangers focus me down and it’s not fair! QQQQQQQQQQQQQ

Welcome to WvWvW. My name is Matt, and I’ll be your guide. Combat in WvWvW is asymmetrical. I roam on a zerker LB/GS ranger (though I do have an ascended trinket with the vit stat), and I can’t count the number of times I pursued an easy kill (say, a warrior who isn’t paying attention) only to have to run the hell away because 3 of his friends show up (which isn’t easy, considering that there is NO swiftness in my build and my only mobility is GS3).

Is that a fair fight? No! Nothing about that fight was fair. I snuck up on someone who wasn’t paying attention, then I had 4 people come after me. But that’s the game mode. If you don’t like frequently running into fights where the odds are against you, than this is the wrong game type for you. Go back to beating on Tequatl or something.

In short: Ranger isn’t particularly OP, neither are Thieves (though stealth is getting some improved counterplay, which is nice), or Warriors or Guardians. You need to be able to counter a variety of professions and builds in order to WvWvW effectively, LB Rangers being chief among them due to their popularity.

Note: I was going to note how easy it is to counter a zerk lb ranger on my engineer, but that wouldn’t really be fair. Firstly, I main Ranger, so I know what counters ruin a Ranger’s day. Secondly, I built my Engineer specifically to roam and fight against the odds. Third, my Engineer runs Pistol/Shield, so having a block AND a reflect is really helpful.

Finally, reflecting LB2 isn’t fun for me. Sure, it’s effective, but it’s so… pedestrian… I like to block/dodge/stealth through the LB2, bait an LB4, then hit the reflect (hopefully, and with surprising regularity, making them knock themselves off of a wall or cliff). If they are silly enough to stick in longbow when a a freaking engineer walks up into melee, range, they deserve to be punished.

sorry to say but ranger are 1 off the weakest classes in WvW
we almost have nothing even are pets are nerft like hell

only we can do is pew pew from a long distance and that’s about it
vs the mighty warrior ore guardian they crush us like a fly’s

even a thief can kitten us to kitten in no time
and that is the true story if you can’t beat a ranger then you play it wrong

Puck.9612:

….. Rangers don’t have to move!? You haven’t spent a lot of time roaming as a ranger have you? Give it a try sometime but be prepared to be insta focused in every fight.

You’d be surprised how often I come across Rangers that “forget” to move. It seems like they don’t realize they’re not an immobile turret – the second that Rapid Fire goes off, nearly all of them stop moving as if it will interrupt the channel. I see it all the time.

Please ranger is one of the most borked professions and the one thing your complaining about is all they have before they are promptly taken down after they have used it. Rangers utilities offer little choice. They have to choose between protection, stun break. or condition protection that wrecks their pet and then acts like a shackle around the avatars leg slowing them from being able to run…go grind up a ranger and get back to us when you’ve learned more about how little Ranger actually brings to the table of “classes that are suppose to stand on their own”….

Also they have two main attacks. One being rapid fire and the other being barrage which in order to use you have to stand in one place or it cancels….The third is a single shot that lets the avatar jump back and stealth for a moment. Rarely has the third shot ever saved my avatar and thus been useful.

After 3-4 busy days of being gone from a computer.. this thread is still going on.
That silly people are still defending Rangers against all reason is baffling.

On a more serious note… defending rangers is fine because it’s not really defending Rangers per se, it’s defending one’s self self esteem. "To think I’m playing something that takes little skill, oh my! It cannot be… it… it cannot be! No. They are wrong. Pushing 1 and sometimes 2 from Jupiter takes skill. It takes aim! (no scope). "
#thread

MethaneGas.8357:

After 3-4 busy days of being gone from a computer.. this thread is still going on.
That silly people are still defending Rangers against all reason is baffling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5d42w4ZcY4

On a more serious note… defending rangers is fine because it’s not really defending Rangers per se, it’s defending one’s self self esteem. "To think I’m playing something that takes little skill, oh my! It cannot be… it… it cannot be! No. They are wrong. Pushing 1 and sometimes 2 from Jupiter takes skill. It takes aim! (no scope). "
#thread

LOL I think its the other way around if you got taken down by a ranger.

Kamara.4187:

LOL I think its the other way around if you got taken down by a ranger.

Who said anywhere that anyone was taken out by a Ranger?
It’s the mere fact that you can do as much burst as any other burst class, but from miles away.
And your statement makes zero sense. Killing things from 1500+ ranger with 1 button isn’t called skill, but when you say something like that Rangers cry and retaliate. Simple as that.
/shrug

MethaneGas.8357:

Kamara.4187:

LOL I think its the other way around if you got taken down by a ranger.

Who said anywhere that anyone was taken out by a Ranger?
It’s the mere fact that you can do as much burst as any other burst class, but from miles away.
And your statement makes zero sense. Killing things from 1500+ ranger with 1 button isn’t called skill, but when you say something like that Rangers cry and retaliate. Simple as that.
/shrug

I’m looking at the bottom of your tag and I see you play several professions. I do as well. All I’m saying is give it a try and you’ll see they are cake to take out. I love Ranger but when I get sick of dying I jump on my warrior.

If a single rapid fire kills you then it is your fault for being too glassy.

There’s going to be more complaints about rangers and they might come from the front line. With the new traits, rangers are going to get 1500 range and fast arrows standard and the GM trait is going to give piercing (+10% arrow velocity and 20% cooldown reduction as well).
Zerg guardians running the standard build are going to lose 300 armor and 2000 hp from traits (they will get some stats back from equipment) and don’t seem to be getting much defensive abilities in return.
Compare rangers with necros. Wells, while powerful, have a 900 range; Life Blast has a similar range and does its best damage at 600. And rangers are getting some nice defensive traits with the patch.
With respect to soloing, a 6 year old with the standard longbow traits and the BM pet upgrades should be able to solo a camp inn under a minute.
Personally, I don’t think the zerg rangers deserve piercing fast arrows at 1500; The gameplay is too mindless for little skill and risk. Shortbow deserves piercing, as it its range is 900. The only reason why nobody complains more is that at some point when the frontline does push, zerker longbow rangers can be easily exposed and they are especially vulnerable in a castle fight.
We shall see on Tuesday how things work out but I think we’ll be seeing more rangers in WvW.

Samis.1750:

There’s going to be more complaints about rangers and they might come from the front line. With the new traits, rangers are going to get 1500 range and fast arrows standard and the GM trait is going to give piercing (+10% arrow velocity and 20% cooldown reduction as well).
Zerg guardians running the standard build are going to lose 300 armor and 2000 hp from traits (they will get some stats back from equipment) and don’t seem to be getting much defensive abilities in return.
Compare rangers with necros. Wells, while powerful, have a 900 range; Life Blast has a similar range and does its best damage at 600. And rangers are getting some nice defensive traits with the patch.
With respect to soloing, a 6 year old with the standard longbow traits and the BM pet upgrades should be able to solo a camp inn under a minute.
Personally, I don’t think the zerg rangers deserve piercing fast arrows at 1500; The gameplay is too mindless for little skill and risk. Shortbow deserves piercing, as it its range is 900. The only reason why nobody complains more is that at some point when the frontline does push, zerker longbow rangers can be easily exposed and they are especially vulnerable in a castle fight.
We shall see on Tuesday how things work out but I think we’ll be seeing more rangers in WvW.

Don’t worry. All rangers will be trading their longbows for Remoresless GS frontline builds

The GS fury trait gets a 10s cooldown. Its best skill has perhaps the biggest tell in the game, I still don’t see it being viable at all.

Samis.1750:

The only reason why nobody complains more…

Difficult to take any complaints about class balance seriously from the joke that is the WvW player base given how few complained that were basically no rangers (or engies for that matter) in zergs/raids before the read the wind patch, too busy spamming 1 on their guards collecting MOAR lootbags (those that don’t spend most of the time running away) like the incompetent little PvE players most are.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

The GS fury trait gets a 10s cooldown. Its best skill has perhaps the biggest tell in the game, I still don’t see it being viable at all.

Maul does have a big tell and it can be tough to land on a good player… but look at this and the other ranger qq threads, a bunch of people will eat an entire 2.5 second channeled attack. How hard do you think it is to hit them with maul?

Osu.6307:

TakeCare.3182:

How anyone could possibly justify 3k auto attacks from 1500 range is beyond me. With Fire and Air, one auto attack can take out 1/3-1/4 of your total HP. Simply broken.

I can get closer to 4K fully buffed. Just sayin…

I think you can get it even above that if you interrupt with moment of clarity lol. never thought i’d see the day people would QQ about pewpew rangers like people did with thieves. On a side note, we’ve been sniping people down even before the buffs happened and it’s ez as hell to play pewpew just maintain distance and don’t stand around like a kitten statue. gets boring after awhile so playing thief alot instead. Personally think those huge vuln stacks on rapid fire need to go though. And the pewpew didn’t need another buff this coming update, thought it was fine as it is. Only way to counter this is if you do find a way to get reflects and then close. If they swoop away they can’t switch immediately to LB and that’s the opening.

The simple fact that if you reflect their attack they will melt and die in 2-3 seconds is proof that the Long bow damage is OP.

Show me another class where if you reflect their incoming damage they die. There isn’t any, because no class does this much single-target damage in a few seconds, and specially not from that range.

Xillllix.3485:

The simple fact that if you reflect their attack they will melt and die in 2-3 seconds is proof that the Long bow damage is OP.

Show me another class where if you reflect their incoming damage they die. There isn’t any, because no class does this much single-target damage in a few seconds, and specially not from that range.

warrior with killshot , and btw ranger dying to WoR its the same for those thiefs and eles that die to retaliation, its dumb but still happens once in a while.

:D just a few hours for the changes! GW3/2.5 INC!

All these QQ about Rangers doing damage at Range. I wonder if that’s how Rangers got their name? Folks are being disingenuous to pretend WvW only happens at range. I could fill a page with places in the current maps where close in fighting is required and the advantages are with almost every other class.

Necro’s dropping wells in lords room is OP – eeek lets insult them. Pangloss, chokes, water gates, etc, etc, etc. Rangers at terrible disadvantages but the haters gonna pretend it’s all about 1500 range fighting… Lol

Rangers can’t hit things from a wall without being at the edge where they can be pulled by…..necros, thieves, engineers, mesmers. Elementalists can light up a wall from front to back and no glass LB ranger can stand in that. Can Rangers pull? no. Can they hit the top of walls? On barely with barrage.

I say get over it. Everyone has more tools than Rangers which why they were ridiculed in wvw for so long. Now that they slightly less useless and people are crying. Get real.

FWIW – I play necro in zergs, skill group havocs, and gvg where they shine. Other classes are better for me at solo roaming. Never occurred to me to whine about silly Rangers.

Xillllix.3485:

The simple fact that if you reflect their attack they will melt and die in 2-3 seconds is proof that the Long bow damage is OP.

Show me another class where if you reflect their incoming damage they die. There isn’t any, because no class does this much single-target damage in a few seconds, and specially not from that range.

The simple fact that if you reflect their attack they will melt and die in 2-3 seconds is proof that the Ranger I’m fighting is a colossal noob.

I mean, do you people even read what you type? You can reflect the entire attack and cause the person to kill themselves and that means the weapon is OP? Lulwut? If anything, it sure sounds like non-channeled projectile reflections are OP since they can apparently instagib a Ranger.

Well to be fair, are you listening to what you’re saying ? If the damage off the weapon skill is powerful enough to insta gib a ranger by being reflected then yes it might very well be OP, after all who wants to be insta gibbed ? Surely not the Ranger and surely not the person without a reflect.

I just wanted to point out the major flaw in your theory tbh.

Nuzt.7894:

Well to be fair, are you listening to what you’re saying ? If the damage off the weapon skill is powerful enough to insta gib a ranger by being reflected then yes it might very well be OP, after all who wants to be insta gibbed ? Surely not the Ranger and surely not the person without a reflect.

I just wanted to point out the major flaw in your theory tbh.

Not really. Need to look at the whole picture. The Ranger (if dumb and takes the whole channel) will die to that one skill because they gear to deal loads of damage, but shatter when you poke them. Most (not all) of these Rangers survive by hiding behind 1500 range. Reflect simply turns the tables: bypassing the 1500 defense and forcing the Ranger’s DPS on himself — which he/she can’t handle.

Rangers should be rebalanced and made interesting, the class atm has a skill floor about as high as it’s skill ceiling, I really don’t care what you think if you think ranger takes any real effort go play a different class for a bit and come back to me brh…

It’d be interesting if LB actually took some possitioning, Make it hit harder and make the Long Bow specific trait kitten all amazing, BUT make Long Bow do 50% damage inside of 300 or so range, especially LB 2!!! Then make it where the stealth skill has an actual animation too it like the knock back does now and boom interesting mechanics.
Make the stealth from long bow last longer too to reward it landing. Now you have a weapon that requires positioning, has 3 skills with witch to try to get spacing back if someone closes the gap onto you OR you have to swap to your offset.

Now to complete the change you take the Greatsword specific trait, make IT kitten all amazing too and put it BOOM on the same grand master trait line as the Long Bow trait. Now you have a choice, either be OK with your long bow that has a really bad weakness, and when you swap greatsword you have a lot of power to try to fight the close game, or go all in on the long bow and need to actually time and work your 3 skills that will let you open the gap back up to do damage.

Hell make the Long bow even more possitional! Have it do EVEN MORE damage in a sweet spot on the auto attack and rapid fire. Something like 800-1200 range have it deal additional damage, and when your target is in the proper ranger Highlight the skills or change them to a different icon to let the player know you have your opponent at the right range. The auto attack…kind of… does this but tbh it just rewards you for standing at max range mashing 1 even though you are beyond 1500 range and hitting the opponent as the arrow falls the last little bit to ground level, the arrows can go stupid far.

Or really ANYTHING to make the class something other than a push 1 button do more damage than other classes who have to teleport into mele range to do their burst, hit for less, and have to push more of there buttons to do it. (cough literally every other class cough)

P.S. I have played ranger, I do understand the class has weaknesses and has next to 0 chance in most straight up duels because there are no mechanics to deal with it… but if ranger had those mechanics and didn’t get a nerf to follow them it would be the dumbest thing in the game.

it is all about getting the drop, and currently wvw roaming post patch. Rangers are getting the drop on me 9/10. Plus, GS tanking as a zerk ranger is real, I’ve seen it first hand as I watched a roaming ranger win a 2v1 literally because of really good GS defensive use.

Zoke.2147:

P.S. I have played ranger, I do understand the class has weaknesses and has next to 0 chance in most straight up duels because there are no mechanics to deal with it…

And this is the point, where skill comes into play. Good rangers (both condi and power) are definitely not bad at dueling.

lb/gs power builds have had a significant skill ceiling increase via beastly warden. it’s actually important now to manage your pet and time the interrupts. also, quickdraw gives additional resources that need to be micromanaged.