Guild Wars 2

This awful matchup system needs to go. I loathe it!

The old one was better. I’d gladly play the same servers every week if they were the RIGHT ones to be matched with.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Kaiser.9873:

I am not too sure how YB got matched with two T4 servers honestly. It was like a 3% chance and whammo it happened. For whatever reason T1 doesn’t want to mix with T2 at all. You see it week after week. Whichever server starts to drop close to T2 levels mysteriously wins that next week, and the Glicko rises too high to roll T2. T2 servers don’t have the offhours coverage to really threaten any T1 servers, but NA would be sweet.

Dragonbrand has the off-hour coverage to compete in T1, but not the NA coverage.

I’ve seen it mentioned a few times before on these forums that the T1 servers do actually work together to make sure they fight nobody else. They manipulate Glicko rating constantly.

Really though for DB at least NA IS their offhours, whereas for FA/YB NA is strong.

The T1 servers absolutely do manipulate their matchup, and have for quite some time. The whole idea of “Push week” came outta T1. It allows for a server to get drubbed 2-3 weeks in a row then win a week to keep their Glicko out of reach of T2.

Like I said before I doubt any of the T2 servers would win a matchup with two T1 servers, but as it stands there is no way to find out until seasons, which is a whole different animal.

Johje Holan.4607:

papaiggy.1345:

Johje Holan.4607:

party buddy.4956:

For those suggesting HoD and SB work together, I don’t think you realize just how lopsided this matchup is. Even if we could somehow coordinate, and get everyone from both servers on the same page (which there is no mechanism to do that) Yaks still out numbers HoD and SB combined 2:1

I realize how lopsided it is, I’m in it (we may even be on the same server). The total population is vastly skewed yes.

Part of the reason is that people don’t like to play in such a imbalanced match. And so people don’t bother logging in. And it gets worse as the week goes along.

Part of the reason is that HoD and SBI spread their already small forces between EB and Home BL further increasing the difference. (Not to mention attacking each other).

But if both HoD and SBI were to attack YB in their own BL (or EB) then the numbers will be more even. They have to be. Even if YB can get twice as many people as HoD or SBI in their Home BL it will be even.

And if they’d both have an old fashioned style Attack on Dreadfall Bay it would be the most fun you can have in this match. In any match actually. I’d take that over any match except one that is so even the score goes back and forth all week (which is so rare as to be able to be counted on one hand the number of times its happened since launch for the server).

But you’re right, it’ll never happen because we can’t coordinate or get both servers on the same page. Too bad, WvW could be fun.

You clearly have no idea what your talking about. SBI isn’t spreading out, we simply don’t have the numbers. When we are running around the map outnumbered with 10-15 people and YB is flipping 2 towers and 2 camps on the same map what the hell do you expect us to do? We do what we can and try to hold or take back stuff. But every time we show up all YB does is sit in the keep or tower and build arrow carts, despite the fact that they have a 50 man zerg running around that hasn’t got the nuggets to face off a 15 man zerg.

I do know what I’m talking about I’ve seen it because I am on SBI too.

Surely you’ve seen matches where we are able to keep numbers in the game? So the players exist.

The reason you end up with 10 -15 people on a map is because people feel like there is no point in coming out to play this week because its a bad match. And the reason its a bad match is because YB can outnumber us on every map.

Perhaps spreading out wasn’t the right terminology. My point was in a match like this it is hopeless to try to fight YB on their terms. Trying to play the defend Home BL and our third of EB in a match like this is just an exercise in futility. And it ends up being frustrating and demoralizing and people don’t come out to play.

But if both us an HoD were to treat it like an event. We’ve had events before to try to have fun – such as trying to take and waypoint a particular keep. And if we were to do that against YB BL Bay as an example (which I think I noticed was taken at some point) then we would be able to get people involved in something other than feeling overwhelmed by their numbers.

Because on their BL we can outnumber them. The map cap is only around 100. Even if each of us, SBI and HoD, could only muster half as many people as YB – that would still make it an even match.

All I got to say is put your money where your mouth is, tag up and command if you got all the answers.

My Diary in WvW (I have holiday this week).

[Day 1] I think our current matchup is over 8 hours after it began. It looks like Piken will beat us and we could beat Drakkar.

[Day 2]
30 Hours in and although Drakkar gained 6,000 points via nightcapping, pulling 5,000 ahead of us, I still think that if Drakkar server does the same disappearing act as many other German servers, (not hate-speech, this is just a recognised phenomenon with servers tagged as German) i.e. weekday disappearing act, they could allow us to overtake them.

[Day 3] Brutal Morning. Logged on to find enemies trading our EB keep between each other. The afternoon and evening were ok, we held our ground more or less. Lost all our T3 stuff to Piken early morning nightcappers: 4 Omegas & 20 man escort.

[Day 4] Brutal Morning. Logged on to find Piken waypoint in our Hills. Spent hours trying to bring down siege and treb them. Piken using 5-man groups in PvP specs – we needed to group up -> 11 person team mid-afternoon. Piken countered everything. Our eventual 6 Omega, 30 person attack on our own Hills was countered when Piken brought double our numbers. Meanwhile we owned nothing on EB. Our tick was 65. In the evening we did ok but never recovered Hills. Piken held it all day, we got to the inner again with another Omega rush but they brought giant group and wiped us again. Meanwhile on EB, we held our keep (which we had managed to fully upgrade) through primetime, but lost it (and everything else) when Piken brought 10 Omegas at 00:30. At 01:00 we lost our garrison to massive blob with just rams this time.
Scores at end of Day 4: GH 78k, DL 93k, PS 139k – It seems we won’t have the opportunity to make inroads into DL’s score because Piken crush us all the time.

I can’t wait for the exciting Friday finale to this matchup… wait, what? It’s already over?

[Day 5] Ticking 40 during the day. Piken still have waypoint in our Hills and have been hitting Garrison all day. Drakkar took advantage of us all defending to capture our keep on EB – so we owned nothing whatsoever there.

[Day …] For the rest of the matchup we got completely owned, people stopped turning up, no commanders logged on. It was a complete unfun blowout.

What I learnt: Don’t WvW when matched up with Piken.

Kaiser.9873:

This made T2 more balanced until FA overstacked themselves

We didn’t do this. I’ve been on FA for years and this is the worst WvW experience I’ve ever had. All these bandwagoners piling on to FA have made it so tonight (at 1:30 in the morning) was the first time I’ve gotten to play WvW in weeks. It’s absolutely miserable. A lot of the hardcore base of FA are pretty upset.

Fluffball.8307:

Kaiser.9873:

This made T2 more balanced until FA overstacked themselves

We didn’t do this. I’ve been on FA for years and this is the worst WvW experience I’ve ever had. All these bandwagoners piling on to FA have made it so tonight (at 1:30 in the morning) was the first time I’ve gotten to play WvW in weeks. It’s absolutely miserable. A lot of the hardcore base of FA are pretty upset.

You did start the ball rolling with the purchases and discussions of buying IOJ, but yea once that momentum starts nothing you can really do about it as peeps jump on the wagon whether you want them or not. I know you all have been trying to re-direct, but you can’t exactly lock the gates either – best you can do is show the queues……

Liston.9708:

You did start the ball rolling with the purchases and discussions of buying IOJ, but yea once that momentum starts nothing you can really do about it as peeps jump on the wagon whether you want them or not. I know you all have been trying to re-direct, but you can’t exactly lock the gates either – best you can do is show the queues……

I didn’t buy any IoJ. And for anyone considering FA, we have all 4 maps queued from ~reset until I go to bed. Complete horse kitten. I love WvW and I now basically hate WvW.

i know the higher tier servers have to deal with it all the time, but kitten . when servers like crystal desert get pushed all the way down to the bottom with small servers like mine, it’s just not fair. kaineng, at its peak, cannot even match the numbers of crystal deserts’ havoc parties that they have spread across every single map. no matter what the map is, i have the outnumber buff.

so for this, i bring forth a suggestion: remove the outnumber buff, at least on smaller servers, and just stop letting large servers pour in endless numbers when they already outnumber to such an extreme. there is no reason for it. simply start the queuing when there’s too many on one side.

Fluffball.8307:

Liston.9708:

You did start the ball rolling with the purchases and discussions of buying IOJ, but yea once that momentum starts nothing you can really do about it as peeps jump on the wagon whether you want them or not. I know you all have been trying to re-direct, but you can’t exactly lock the gates either – best you can do is show the queues……

I didn’t buy any IoJ. And for anyone considering FA, we have all 4 maps queued from ~reset until I go to bed. Complete horse kitten. I love WvW and I now basically hate WvW.

You used the term we meaning server. I used the term you in the same context – server not you in particular… Either way, I’d imagine the queues will lighten as people just give up or move off. I don’t think my alt account on Jq has as bad of queues right now as you all. I feel you – does suck not being able to play when you want to where you have played for any length of time…..

Liston.9708:

You used the term we meaning server. I used the term you in the same context – server not you in particular… Either way, I’d imagine the queues will lighten as people just give up or move off. I don’t think my alt account on Jq has as bad of queues right now as you all. I feel you – does suck not being able to play when you want to where you have played for any length of time…..

Ya I know what you meant, I didn’t take it personally. It’s just pretty obvious a bunch of people are trying to leech off of us and this is not what any real FA players wanted. The collective “we” did not want new players other than maybe 20 in SEA.

What makes it worse is when the score starts to blow out, the pve players either show up in force for map completion, or stop playing because they are getting owned.

FA faced a T1 server, Oh did we get spanked bad. To Bad SBI does not have the players, when we faced them, they sure could fight well. Did not matter what the odds were, they had no problem facing us in open field battle, and doing well.

Now we face another week of Arrow cart showers, and tons of siege. Takes forever to get them to come out of hiding and fight.

arron.7348:

i know the higher tier servers have to deal with it all the time, but kitten . when servers like crystal desert get pushed all the way down to the bottom with small servers like mine, it’s just not fair. kaineng, at its peak, cannot even match the numbers of crystal deserts’ havoc parties that they have spread across every single map. no matter what the map is, i have the outnumber buff.

so for this, i bring forth a suggestion: remove the outnumber buff, at least on smaller servers, and just stop letting large servers pour in endless numbers when they already outnumber to such an extreme. there is no reason for it. simply start the queuing when there’s too many on one side.

Man up kitten ! :p

Kaineng can’t match any server on NA prime time. Just get used to it, go out there do what is fun, don’t do what’s not. Are we going to lose this week, well probably, sure looks like it. But since when did winning in WvW matter ?

Sure miss the GoMmi bears though.

SBI is probably going to lose this week, but at this point we are getting so used to fighting open field when outnumbered, that I pity the poor fellows that show up down the line with equal numbers.

joneirikb.7506:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

They need to improve their logic. Quit working from the top down and work to keep such massive glicko separation in a matchup from happening (unless their is simply no other choice).

The problem is just that, there is no other choice with the way things are right now. The difference between servers even 1-2 ranks separate are just that big.

At this stage, they would need to completely rework the entire WvW game mode (points, coverage, 6+vs6+, siege, etc++) in order to make this work with the populations and population disperancy.

Because no matter how you try to shuffle servers around. there are at this stage 7 “gold” servers. In matches of 3 servers. Where does the 7th one go ? And there is a world of difference between server #7 and #8. So what are you going to do, tell server #7 that they can’t play at all this week ? Any system MUST place them in a match-up, but there are no good candidates. At all. And if the tell server #7 that they can’t play, then we’re a server short, so 2 other servers would also have to skip that week.

Also, the more #7 “farm” #8+#9, the greater chance they have (glicko) to not roll back into T3 the next week. If they just send 90% of their players to EotM for a week, and tries to play to an even score, they’re losing glicko rating like crazy, and will likely be stuck where they are. They don’t want that (and neither do you).

TLDR: Kitten if you do, and kitten if you don’t. Either ANet redesigns the whole basics of WvW, or players have to self police and even out population somehow.

DH was nearly 40 glicko points higher than us. How in the heck did we jump them to get matchup up with SoS? Its because they don’t mitigate the glicko differences except between T1 and T2. And, if there was ever a spot to not work on the difference, that would be the place.

Flip the logic, and work from the bottom up. Yes, a few servers (mine included) would get boned but it would help limit the number of go rounds in the Tier of hades.

Watching IOJ and NSP suffer for months. Now DH, HOD and SBI moving into that torture chamber, you’d think that Anet would have made at least a token effort to do something. Kitten kitten kitten kitten kitten

IIRC it is statistically impossible for the T1 matchup to change right now. That means NA t3 will always be 1 T2 server vs 2 T4 servers. This will go on until one of the t2 server implodes or one of the t1 servers implode.

Keira Ferland.5619:

IIRC it is statistically impossible for the T1 matchup to change right now. That means NA t3 will always be 1 T2 server vs 2 T4 servers. This will go on until one of the t2 server implodes or one of the t1 servers implode.

We need to hasten the implosion with another season. At this point the only good time on T3 is reset and perhaps a couple of hours late night EST.

Comeon’ Anet just flip the switch for a season. Not like it’ll take much work, just do a repeat of S3.

Johje Holan.4607:

Keira Ferland.5619:

IIRC it is statistically impossible for the T1 matchup to change right now. That means NA t3 will always be 1 T2 server vs 2 T4 servers. This will go on until one of the t2 server implodes or one of the t1 servers implode.

We need to hasten the implosion with another season. At this point the only good time on T3 is reset and perhaps a couple of hours late night EST.

Comeon’ Anet just flip the switch for a season. Not like it’ll take much work, just do a repeat of S3.

While on the surface this sounds bad, I tend to agree with you….

ESO found the solution for the match-ups:
3 Teams instead of servers (could be guild alliances in guild wars 2)
And the option to guest on other campaigns when your server is full or when you want to balance a match.

The penalty is that when you are guesting you do not receive xp.
I think it’s a great system that could easily be applied to Guild Wars 2.
It would really facilitate GvGs between guilds as well, as GvG guilds could go fight on low-population servers.

Yeah, it’s pretty terrible. Makes you want to rage quit after a while.

Playing on one of the low population servers you wonder how there are so many people on high population servers willing to sit there as troll defenders….and begs the question:

How do you kill that which has no life?

Bias.4306:

Yeah, it’s pretty terrible. Makes you want to rage quit after a while.

Playing on one of the low population servers you wonder how there are so many people on high population servers willing to sit there as troll defenders….and begs the question:

How do you kill that which has no life?

Take away the pee bucket and snack food, will play for days till starve to death. Lol
Some people actually died this way…Google search it and you will see articles.

Bias.4306:

Yeah, it’s pretty terrible. Makes you want to rage quit after a while.

Playing on one of the low population servers you wonder how there are so many people on high population servers willing to sit there as troll defenders….and begs the question:

How do you kill that which has no life?

We’re going to have to go into the forest and kill boars.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

joneirikb.7506:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

They need to improve their logic. Quit working from the top down and work to keep such massive glicko separation in a matchup from happening (unless their is simply no other choice).

The problem is just that, there is no other choice with the way things are right now. The difference between servers even 1-2 ranks separate are just that big.

At this stage, they would need to completely rework the entire WvW game mode (points, coverage, 6+vs6+, siege, etc++) in order to make this work with the populations and population disperancy.

Because no matter how you try to shuffle servers around. there are at this stage 7 “gold” servers. In matches of 3 servers. Where does the 7th one go ? And there is a world of difference between server #7 and #8. So what are you going to do, tell server #7 that they can’t play at all this week ? Any system MUST place them in a match-up, but there are no good candidates. At all. And if the tell server #7 that they can’t play, then we’re a server short, so 2 other servers would also have to skip that week.

Also, the more #7 “farm” #8+#9, the greater chance they have (glicko) to not roll back into T3 the next week. If they just send 90% of their players to EotM for a week, and tries to play to an even score, they’re losing glicko rating like crazy, and will likely be stuck where they are. They don’t want that (and neither do you).

TLDR: Kitten if you do, and kitten if you don’t. Either ANet redesigns the whole basics of WvW, or players have to self police and even out population somehow.

DH was nearly 40 glicko points higher than us. How in the heck did we jump them to get matchup up with SoS? Its because they don’t mitigate the glicko differences except between T1 and T2. And, if there was ever a spot to not work on the difference, that would be the place.

Flip the logic, and work from the bottom up. Yes, a few servers (mine included) would get boned but it would help limit the number of go rounds in the Tier of hades.

Watching IOJ and NSP suffer for months. Now DH, HOD and SBI moving into that torture chamber, you’d think that Anet would have made at least a token effort to do something. Kitten kitten kitten kitten kitten

Actually, I’d never think that. They’re too busy finding ways to make wvw even crappier so they’ll reap the profits from server transfers and wait for the day when wvw dies with a whimper and all we have left is EOTM. Every time someone pulls out the gold or cc to do it, they’re saying “Thanks Anet, I love it; please continue to keep wvw the way it is!”

Been dealing with this problem for the better part of a year now on my sinking “wasteland” server. The wasteland servers were just the proverbial canary in the mine that died out months ago. It seems, from the sound of it, this problem is now systemic and affecting servers much much higher in rank than my own.

It is absolutely no fun to be the whipping boy for another server’s K-train weeks on end. And I have no hope that Anet will fix this in time from it reaching its inevitable conclusion of a miserable WvW experience for all but a few….assuming people still play WvW, or the game, by the time HoT releases. You need only look at the fact it took them two years to figure out that there were camera issues apparent to ANYONE who plays the game and they’re only now beginning to address them. This topic’s issue was apparent from day one too but it is more complex than just re-coding a camera system (which took them the amount of time this rock we live on flying around the sun twice to fix).

Anet just doesn’t get it and it’s going to cost them players. Their PvE content is stale and most players I know just WvW now. Or rather, did, before they got tired of being farmed in WvW by the blob.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

DH was nearly 40 glicko points higher than us. How in the heck did we jump them to get matchup up with SoS? Its because they don’t mitigate the glicko differences except between T1 and T2. And, if there was ever a spot to not work on the difference, that would be the place.

Flip the logic, and work from the bottom up. Yes, a few servers (mine included) would get boned but it would help limit the number of go rounds in the Tier of hades.

Watching IOJ and NSP suffer for months. Now DH, HOD and SBI moving into that torture chamber, you’d think that Anet would have made at least a token effort to do something. Kitten kitten kitten kitten kitten

Remember that each server is given a random amount of points +/- 100 in order to randomize things up, so you’re not stuck with the same servers constantly. That is why DH had 40 points more, you still got rolled (DH could get -30 and you could get +30 for example). Without this, every server would meet the same servers every week until they shifted glicko with arctic glacier speed. This is also the reason we change colours in WvW, ever. So if we removed this, those seeking map completion would be completely boned until the server rise slowly 2 steps up or down in rating.

And working up or down does not matter, because after they add the random scores, they just move the servers after the new rating bonus they got, and match up the 3 closest no matter what side you start on.

The problem with the system is that it’s meant to work with a bunch of servers with fairly similar rating. Something we don’t have, the differences between servers are so big, that even 1-2 rankings difference means complete death (Just look at out match-up with crystal desert this week, that is server #14, #17 and #18, or SoR in T7 it is rated #19 and should be in T7, but doesn’t fit in any longer).

Glicko would have worked well, if the servers where even remotely similar in size. This is a problem that players have created, and ANet is sitting trying to figure out how to deal with. I wouldn’t be surprised if MegaServer was the answer they will end up with (EotM mode), because no matter what they do, people will be unhappy.

Personally I’m hoping they just completely remove points.

Pray to the RNG that it will be gentle with you, it’s the only thing to do for now.

Kaiser.9873:

I am not too sure how YB got matched with two T4 servers honestly. It was like a 3% chance and whammo it happened. For whatever reason T1 doesn’t want to mix with T2 at all. You see it week after week. Whichever server starts to drop close to T2 levels mysteriously wins that next week, and the Glicko rises too high to roll T2. T2 servers don’t have the offhours coverage to really threaten any T1 servers, but NA would be sweet.

It’s not mysterious; they rotate ‘push weeks’ (a polite name for match fixing). The forums have openly discussed it several times that I’ve seen.

joneirikb.7506:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

joneirikb.7506:

This is a player caused problem.

This is not a player caused problem, this is a Game Development caused problem – or rather a lack of rethinking the logic used.
If this is a player caused problem, perhas SBI and HoD might get better and compete against YB instead of letting YB roll them up.

… people started moving servers to stack servers and BandWagon. It’s natural, the system allows it, and it is in human nature to generally try to side with the winning team (even with nothing to gain it seems). And that is why we have the situation we have today.

But at the same time, you can’t expect players to police themselves. So yes ANet is going to have to eventually do something about it…

Agreed. That solution will have to change the system to prevent players from recreating the same problem though and that means limiting player choice.

Every time solutions are discussed people start protesting that they don’t want to change where they play or who they play with…. while simultaneously complaining that populations are unbalanced. Populations can’t be balanced without changing these things.

Rimmy.9217:

party buddy.4956:

Yes people are still crying about this, Many people are not crying though, but instead are just deleting the game.

The solution to the problem appears to be, let the underdog die out every time they hit the ceiling that is rank#8.
The server that reaches Rank 8 just has people quit playing wvw, and the game, and then another server can move up, get frustrated and ignored, then That server will lose people, quitting the game, quitting wvw, its an endless cycle that Anet has shown no recognition of or any interest in fixing.

They’re really not quitting when they hit rank 8. I had a look at your post history and the bulk of your posts is complaining about problems you’ve had in the game, key farming, letting guild leaders start keg brawls for some reason…

The servers are not completely balanced AND there isn’t a smooth progression from 24 to 1, and as has been explained there are four T2 servers in a tier where only three can fit, so one is displaced down to T3.

Want to fix that? Convince one of the four to destack to T3 levels. It’s not ANet’s fault or problem that players stacked upward like this. If you personally are not enjoying this week’s matchup, then do something else. Or find a way to make it fun. Or do whatever. But enough of the whining already – which of the other three T2-level servers would you have preferred to face this week?

Why isn’t it Anet’s fault? They allow for server transfers when their game has a mode which basically requires some form of server loyalty to function properly. The reason they are not adressing this is because it’s netting them a good sum of money. It was a lot more balanced before people could transfer. My server basically has no WvW players left. My entire Guild moved to another server. I’m the only naïve fool who refuses to do so, atleast for now.

I haven’t played in ages, but it looks like WvW is STILL plagued by the exact problems it had a year ago.

Ivonbeton.6814:

Rimmy.9217:

party buddy.4956:

Yes people are still crying about this, Many people are not crying though, but instead are just deleting the game.

The solution to the problem appears to be, let the underdog die out every time they hit the ceiling that is rank#8.
The server that reaches Rank 8 just has people quit playing wvw, and the game, and then another server can move up, get frustrated and ignored, then That server will lose people, quitting the game, quitting wvw, its an endless cycle that Anet has shown no recognition of or any interest in fixing.

They’re really not quitting when they hit rank 8. I had a look at your post history and the bulk of your posts is complaining about problems you’ve had in the game, key farming, letting guild leaders start keg brawls for some reason…

The servers are not completely balanced AND there isn’t a smooth progression from 24 to 1, and as has been explained there are four T2 servers in a tier where only three can fit, so one is displaced down to T3.

Want to fix that? Convince one of the four to destack to T3 levels. It’s not ANet’s fault or problem that players stacked upward like this. If you personally are not enjoying this week’s matchup, then do something else. Or find a way to make it fun. Or do whatever. But enough of the whining already – which of the other three T2-level servers would you have preferred to face this week?

Why isn’t it Anet’s fault? They allow for server transfers when their game has a mode which basically requires some form of server loyalty to function properly. The reason they are not adressing this is because it’s netting them a good sum of money. It was a lot more balanced before people could transfer. My server basically has no WvW players left. My entire Guild moved to another server. I’m the only naïve fool who refuses to do so, atleast for now.

I haven’t played in ages, but it looks like WvW is STILL plagued by the exact problems it had a year ago.

Yes, it’s allowed in the game framework. But ANet didn’t make anybody do it, players did it. That’s why it’s not ANet’s “fault”.

And other than speculation, how do you know it’s netting them any money? Gold converts to gems nice and easily, and if you had the foresight to start converting to gems in the long long ago, you’re in great shape.

More balanced before people could transfer? Since when couldn’t you transfer?

And lots of guilds currently in silver and bronze have gone through a T8 phase, so we know how it is. It’s people’s fault, not the game. Read up – every single time someone suggests something to address the problem, people scream that they don’t want the change, that they don’t want to move or destack or any of the sensible things that need to happen if the game is going to have any playable longevity to it.

That’s players, not ANet.

Mikau.6920:

Why this keep happening? One server TWICE the rank of the other servers on the same matchup?

This isn’t fun to play on the winning side neither on losing side. This should never happen.

I really hope this is changed on HoT release.

Sweet lord…thats not even OP anymore….thats genocide XD

Rimmy.9217:

Yes, it’s allowed in the game framework. But ANet didn’t make anybody do it, players did it. That’s why it’s not ANet’s “fault”.

And other than speculation, how do you know it’s netting them any money? Gold converts to gems nice and easily, and if you had the foresight to start converting to gems in the long long ago, you’re in great shape.

More balanced before people could transfer? Since when couldn’t you transfer?

And lots of guilds currently in silver and bronze have gone through a T8 phase, so we know how it is. It’s people’s fault, not the game. Read up – every single time someone suggests something to address the problem, people scream that they don’t want the change, that they don’t want to move or destack or any of the sensible things that need to happen if the game is going to have any playable longevity to it.

That’s players, not ANet.

Players will abuse the game mechanics and will do what’s best for them, not what’s best for the game. A dev with their experience should know that and should have the foresight to either not provide the framework to make this abuse possible or to alter the nature of WvW. It’s not on the players because they are not in control, Anet is.

That being said, I hate this lack of server loyalty from players. Yet at the same time, I get it. I know a lot of good WvW players who tried to stick with the server for the longest time, but ultimately had the choice to either stop playing WvW (all they played) or go to another server. I’m not hating on Anet, but they are the ones who had the power to start all of this, only they have the power to stop it.

Removing the option to transfer servers won’t work anymore though. It’s too late, many servers had their community ripped to shreds already.

Ivonbeton.6814:

Removing the option to transfer servers won’t work anymore though. It’s too late, many servers had their community ripped to shreds already.

It’s also not really fair. If people want to transfer they should be allowed too, unless the server is bursting at the seams. For many players playing lone wolf isn’t fun and if you give them a choice to change that, many would take it. And they should be allowed to take it. It’s a game after all and if you aren’t having fun, then you should find a way to have fun or quit.

Personally I think a lot of people just quit. It’s easier just to duck out and play other more rewarding aspects of the game during a bad match up. I want to love WvW, but it’s so underwhelming and under rewarding I end up more in PVE. And as a new player without the luxury of traits or dyes or ascended crafting, it seems a better use of my gaming time.

Rimmy.9217:

Nuzt.7894:

The problem is the constant stacking in attempts to create a fight tier. Now don’t get me wrong I love fights and the idea of a fight tier but when there is 4 T2 servers that are miles ahead of any server that could land in T3 it causes issues for those below T2, and the T2 server that gets tossed down.

It’s the same reason FA is currently T1.5, I never understood why all the fight guild stack only T2, would it not make more sense to stack 6 server vs 3-4 ? If both T2 & T3 were full of the fight guilds they would have a revolving door of match ups, dropping down to T3 wouldn’t affect their ability to find fight (causing them to move furthering the damage to T2).

Fights are great, I agree with this, I don’t care for PPT but having 6 servers revolving the fights vs 3-4, would make life better for everyone in those two tiers … well except the PPT heroes.

You’re absolutely right – it’s a pity that stackers can’t see something so simple.

It’s not the players job to care. The player wants what the player wants. And often that’s to find people to fight against at any given time they are looking. Thus why they stack where they know they can find the action.

It’s ANets responsibility to ensure their servers have thriving and viable populations to support their existence. This is why server mergers are a much better idea than deconstructing a server and spreading out the players evenly.

With an expansion coming perhaps their server technology will change and they’ll be able to make much larger worlds to fight on and we won’t be bothered by servers at all. This is where a lot of the newer MMOs are going. Perhaps GW2 should join in.

Atherakhia.4086:

Rimmy.9217:

Nuzt.7894:

The problem is the constant stacking in attempts to create a fight tier. Now don’t get me wrong I love fights and the idea of a fight tier but when there is 4 T2 servers that are miles ahead of any server that could land in T3 it causes issues for those below T2, and the T2 server that gets tossed down.

It’s the same reason FA is currently T1.5, I never understood why all the fight guild stack only T2, would it not make more sense to stack 6 server vs 3-4 ? If both T2 & T3 were full of the fight guilds they would have a revolving door of match ups, dropping down to T3 wouldn’t affect their ability to find fight (causing them to move furthering the damage to T2).

Fights are great, I agree with this, I don’t care for PPT but having 6 servers revolving the fights vs 3-4, would make life better for everyone in those two tiers … well except the PPT heroes.

You’re absolutely right – it’s a pity that stackers can’t see something so simple.

It’s not the players job to care. The player wants what the player wants. And often that’s to find people to fight against at any given time they are looking. Thus why they stack where they know they can find the action.

Not the player’s job to care that the game mode they enjoy will still be something they can enjoy tomorrow, next month, next year? A little stewardship by the end users just makes sense. Call it preventative maintenance.

Atherakhia.4086:

It’s ANets responsibility to ensure their servers have thriving and viable populations to support their existence. This is why server mergers are a much better idea than deconstructing a server and spreading out the players evenly.

I don’t get what’s so hard to understand about server mergers being a bad idea – most NA servers have a prime time that overlaps each other. So a merger means queues and therefore people who want to play but are unable to. Queues are not a sign of health.

Atherakhia.4086:

With an expansion coming perhaps their server technology will change and they’ll be able to make much larger worlds to fight on and we won’t be bothered by servers at all. This is where a lot of the newer MMOs are going. Perhaps GW2 should join in.

I’d be surprised – the engine (and definitely people running machines that were above the recommended hardware for GW2 when it came out) groans when there are 60v60(v60) fights as it is. Don’t hold your breath for increased map population caps. And that’s a bad way to go with GW2 anyway – people who want that have other games as options.

If ANet went with server merges in some manner, they would also need to make overflow maps for NA Prime Time, to deal with the queue’s. If not, then say you fuse together 3 servers, lets say GoM+AR+SoR into one server because it matches some random metrics that ANet might have etc. You would end up with a server that had queue’s on everything for many hours in AN prime, and be a ghost town rest of the day.

So they would need to have overflow maps for NA prime, so everyone could play, say 1 or 2 extra copies of EBG.

Alternatively, almost half the server will be stuck in EotM for half a day. That is virtually the same as saying "Hey, you 1-2 servers there, you’re not allowed to play WvW, go play EotM instead!".

On the other hand, ANet would not be able to adjust the amount ofm aps down during the night, because if they fought against one of the T1 servers, they probably have enough players online during the off hours to keep 3-4 maps active.

Here we go again! Let’s see if it got tweaked this week!

A bit late to the party, but someone had commented that there are 4 T2 servers (which there are) so someone had to go to T3. Except YB didn’t go to T3. They went to T4. 3.17% chance of that matchup getting rolled, but hey, everyone gets an exotic drop or ascended armor chest once in a while, right?

There was just really no reason that the #5 server should ever have been matched against #10 and #11, who were 400+ glicko behind them. I think manual matchup intervention may be necessary at some times, like the one the OP mentioned from 2 weeks ago.

Xillllix.3485:

ESO found the solution for the match-ups:
3 Teams instead of servers (could be guild alliances in guild wars 2)
And the option to guest on other campaigns when your server is full or when you want to balance a match.

The penalty is that when you are guesting you do not receive xp.
I think it’s a great system that could easily be applied to Guild Wars 2.
It would really facilitate GvGs between guilds as well, as GvG guilds could go fight on low-population servers.

Guest to another server!!! OOoooo I wanna do that!!!

Come back to us Chaba-desu~~~~!

We have Furries too now!

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

…

There was just really no reason that the #5 server should ever have been matched against #10 and #11, who were 400+ glicko behind them. I think manual matchup intervention may be necessary at some times, like the one the OP mentioned from 2 weeks ago.

The way Glicko works:

• week done, scores locked in.
• Each server gets randomly added +/- 100 “temp” glicko points for RNG.
• sort server by the new order (by the temp glicko change)
• start on top, take the first 3 = tier 1, the next 3 is tier 2, etc.

So what happened is that #4 got a low random number, putting it under the other 3 servers in the “temp rating” used for making match-ups. Meaning that 5+6+7 was actually ranked as 4+5+6 while setting up matches. Then 8+9+10+11 are so close in rating, that ANY of them can get a (un)lucky roll and go higher than the others, lets say HoD got a +100, putting them ranked efficiently as 8th in “temp glicko rating”.

Because of how close 4+5+6+7 is and how close 8+9+10+11 is, any mix up of those are likely. There was 50 points separating 8 and 11 after last week.

The whole X amount of glicko point difference doesn’t matter if there are no other servers to be matched with.

And yes, you got out of T2 this week, so have fun ! And DH finally bit the T2 bullet!

arron.7348:

i know the higher tier servers have to deal with it all the time, but kitten . when servers like crystal desert get pushed all the way down to the bottom with small servers like mine, it’s just not fair. kaineng, at its peak, cannot even match the numbers of crystal deserts’ havoc parties that they have spread across every single map. no matter what the map is, i have the outnumber buff.

so for this, i bring forth a suggestion: remove the outnumber buff, at least on smaller servers, and just stop letting large servers pour in endless numbers when they already outnumber to such an extreme. there is no reason for it. simply start the queuing when there’s too many on one side.

CD player here; Hah! I feel for you, CD is kind of the same position, only 1 tier up. We have been getting destroyed for months (particularly against maguuma). So it was actually nice to run around not fearing a zerg 4 times as big flattening everything. But we’re against them again, and nobody is logging on to wvw, even on reset night.

tbh CD is a husk of what it used to be.

rwolf.9571:

arron.7348:

i know the higher tier servers have to deal with it all the time, but kitten . when servers like crystal desert get pushed all the way down to the bottom with small servers like mine, it’s just not fair. kaineng, at its peak, cannot even match the numbers of crystal deserts’ havoc parties that they have spread across every single map. no matter what the map is, i have the outnumber buff.

so for this, i bring forth a suggestion: remove the outnumber buff, at least on smaller servers, and just stop letting large servers pour in endless numbers when they already outnumber to such an extreme. there is no reason for it. simply start the queuing when there’s too many on one side.

CD player here; Hah! I feel for you, CD is kind of the same position, only 1 tier up. We have been getting destroyed for months (particularly against maguuma). So it was actually nice to run around not fearing a zerg 4 times as big flattening everything. But we’re against them again, and nobody is logging on to wvw, even on reset night.

tbh CD is a husk of what it used to be.

Then I hope you guys recognize that Maguuma is the one that’s in a lower tier than they should be, and you and the other server cough$us$cough should hit them exclusively.