Guild Wars 2

Maybe thats because people feel like anet has canceled the whole WvW-support. I saw I got aggressive and salty the last months. No reason to act like this in PvE. But WvW is just depressing.

Aury.1367:

Maybe thats because people feel like anet has canceled the whole WvW-support. I saw I got aggressive and salty the last months. No reason to act like this in PvE. But WvW is just depressing.

thats subjective tho, so the best solution would be to either take a break or dosomething else until they implement new things that might interest u

I believe that a lot of these threads and posts are an outburst against what the majority see as an utter neglect of the game mode. Whether this statement is objectively true or not doesn’t matter, perceptions do.

If there was more developer/moderator activity in here, where they actually participated in threads or discussions, even a few posts a week, then there would be a constant ‘presence’ of ANet on these subforums, which would lead to both better overall behaviour and overall discussion and contribution. As it is, the analogy that can be used is a teenaged kid being neglected by their parents and only having other faceless adults slap them back into line whenever they act out of turn (i.e. the moderators who delete every thread that may turn into a Matchup Thread, sometimes a little too heavy-handedly).

This isn’t any sort of jab at the moderation, simply an observation from someone who finds these forums useless in terms of actual communication and only gets on to make snarky comments. The lack of overall communication here, while understandable considering workloads and developer times, is leading to this particular subforum becoming irrelevant when it comes to fulfilling it’s actual purpose.

That was a bit of a write, but if you read this far, Thanks.

The sad part is that there is a specific set of forum posters who are most likely to derail a thread from something constructive into match-up. They often add jabs at whichever server they don’t particularly like, and that stirs the pot. Maybe it’s not just the threads that need a time out, but some of the posters most likely to derail things down the match-up rabbit hole?

Most of the players in WvW are just upset that nothing has really happened in months and we feel like we’ve been ignored.

We just want to see what is actually going on behind the scenes with WvW, maybe given some DevBlog update style stuff since you’ve been mostly silent on what is changing and being worked on.

Sorry Gaile, it isn’t about in-game rivalries. It’s about frustration with Anet who has a more direct hand in match-making now through manual glicko adjustments and server linking choices without taking the time to understand the community trends going on with those teams.

Chaba.5410:

Sorry Gaile, it isn’t about in-game rivalries. It’s about frustration with Anet who has a more direct hand in match-making now through manual glicko adjustments and server linking choices without taking the time to understand the community trends going on with those teams.

http://imgur.com/nqzK9io

• Edit: Thanks for replacing my OP, I’ll keep this one as evidence to the existing issue addressed in my image.

• Edit #2: I deleted my OP.

Why people are mad is not particularly relevant. The topic is behavior.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Aury.1367:

Maybe thats because people feel like anet has canceled the whole WvW-support. I saw I got aggressive and salty the last months. No reason to act like this in PvE. But WvW is just depressing.

I am sorry if players feel that way. I see it in posts, sure. But I believe we’ve made it clear that the game mode has not been abandoned. That was confirmed quite recently when a dev made some comments about upcoming changes. Unfortunately, the thread devolved into dev bashing, and the OP asked that we remove it.

I feel that while things may not be perfect, they are not as dire as some forum members paint them. Continuously dwelling on the negative isn’t necessary or productive and it doesn’t represent the true nature of the game mode.

Well, but just take a look what has happend in WvW in the last year: Almost nothing except of some siege-experiments. No work in:
- Dire/Trailblazer condi bombs, condi being too strong for being passive
- Missing added condi cleanse skills to several classes
- Runaway thieves
- Unplayable with 3-server blobfights
- Server linking gone terribly wrong

Sorry if this sounds too negative, its just that I love GW2 because of WvW, I spent so much time and effort in it. But having to face the bad sides every day make it less joyful.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Vermillion.4061:

Most of the players in WvW are just upset that nothing has really happened in months and we feel like we’ve been ignored.

We just want to see what is actually going on behind the scenes with WvW, maybe given some DevBlog update style stuff since you’ve been mostly silent on what is changing and being worked on.

Different companies communicate in different ways and sometimes the process evolves over the years. Mike O’Brien explained how we choose to communicate in this forum post a few years ago. What he said was, “We’ve set a clear policy in the past year: we don’t talk speculatively about future development. We don’t want to string you along. Creating fun is an uncertain business: sometimes things work out and sometimes they don’t; sometimes we go back to the drawing board over and over before we get something right. If we make optimistic promises and then can’t deliver on them, everyone suffers. So when we attend a trade show or give an interview, we’re there to talk about what we’re getting ready to ship, not to speculate on what we might ship someday.”

I understand that some players would prefer a different manner of communication. I wanted to share the comments above to show that silence does not point to inaction or neglect or indifference.

The topic of conversation doesn’t matter. Nobody’s asking to talk about future developments.

What people here want is actual communication. Look at how many ANet devs often make cheeky oneliner comments on Reddit. It fosters a sense of cooperation there, and people on Reddit know that the Devs are listening even if no Dev ever actually talks about future releases.

We need that here. We need the active presence of a few different devs, so that people know they’re being listened to. So far, regardless of what you may say about WvW not being abandoned and Devs are listening, it sure as hell doesn’t feel like it here.

Go ahead and make us up a few topics we’re allowed to talk about, Gaile.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Vermillion.4061:

Most of the players in WvW are just upset that nothing has really happened in months and we feel like we’ve been ignored.

We just want to see what is actually going on behind the scenes with WvW, maybe given some DevBlog update style stuff since you’ve been mostly silent on what is changing and being worked on.

Different companies communicate in different ways and sometimes the process evolves over the years. Mike O’Brien explained how we choose to communicate in this forum post a few years ago. What he said was, “We’ve set a clear policy in the past year: we don’t talk speculatively about future development. We don’t want to string you along. Creating fun is an uncertain business: sometimes things work out and sometimes they don’t; sometimes we go back to the drawing board over and over before we get something right. If we make optimistic promises and then can’t deliver on them, everyone suffers. So when we attend a trade show or give an interview, we’re there to talk about what we’re getting ready to ship, not to speculate on what we might ship someday.”

I understand that some players would prefer a different manner of communication. I wanted to share the comments above to show that silence does not point to inaction or neglect or indifference.

Perhaps ArenaNet should reconsider their approach to communicating with their customers. It’s been two-years, things have changed, times are different, and WvW specifically is just not where it was two-years ago.

My expectation in terms of communication is ArenaNet’s participation in discussions regarding the good, the bad, and the worst parts of WvW. Just because you guys talk with us and at least acknowledge the issue doesn’t mean we can immediately expect a patch the next day, or a re-haul in the next quarter; like any other company you have risk management I’m sure, maybe.

WvW is a revenue stream for you. The community leaders of WvW and the guilds of WvW drive that revenue for you through transfers, in-game purchases, and with gift-cards I’m sure. If your poor communication continues down this path eventually that revenue stream is going to diminish, you’ll have less resources for this game mode, and then it will just end up like PvP did.

Namer.9750:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Vermillion.4061:

Most of the players in WvW are just upset that nothing has really happened in months and we feel like we’ve been ignored.

We just want to see what is actually going on behind the scenes with WvW, maybe given some DevBlog update style stuff since you’ve been mostly silent on what is changing and being worked on.

Different companies communicate in different ways and sometimes the process evolves over the years. Mike O’Brien explained how we choose to communicate in this forum post a few years ago. What he said was, “We’ve set a clear policy in the past year: we don’t talk speculatively about future development. We don’t want to string you along. Creating fun is an uncertain business: sometimes things work out and sometimes they don’t; sometimes we go back to the drawing board over and over before we get something right. If we make optimistic promises and then can’t deliver on them, everyone suffers. So when we attend a trade show or give an interview, we’re there to talk about what we’re getting ready to ship, not to speculate on what we might ship someday.”

I understand that some players would prefer a different manner of communication. I wanted to share the comments above to show that silence does not point to inaction or neglect or indifference.

The topic of conversation doesn’t matter. Nobody’s asking to talk about future developments.

What people here want is actual communication. Look at how many ANet devs often make cheeky oneliner comments on Reddit. It fosters a sense of cooperation there, and people on Reddit know that the Devs are listening even if no Dev ever actually talks about future releases.

We need that here. We need the active presence of a few different devs, so that people know they’re being listened to. So far, regardless of what you may say about WvW not being abandoned and Devs are listening, it sure as hell doesn’t feel like it here.

Nah. I personally am not bothered by the amount of red posts here. I’m much more interested in results and I think it would be important for Anet to be more involved with regards to team trends or doing something like making server links every month instead of every two months or forcing players who are not counting currently towards their world’s WvW population if that world is Full to be forced to pick a new world before re-entering WvW. There’s too much “cruft accounts” from the past login blackouts and all Full status does so far is make guilds leave while the cruft remains.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Vermillion.4061:

Most of the players in WvW are just upset that nothing has really happened in months and we feel like we’ve been ignored.

We just want to see what is actually going on behind the scenes with WvW, maybe given some DevBlog update style stuff since you’ve been mostly silent on what is changing and being worked on.

Different companies communicate in different ways and sometimes the process evolves over the years. Mike O’Brien explained how we choose to communicate in this forum post a few years ago. What he said was, “We’ve set a clear policy in the past year: we don’t talk speculatively about future development. We don’t want to string you along. Creating fun is an uncertain business: sometimes things work out and sometimes they don’t; sometimes we go back to the drawing board over and over before we get something right. If we make optimistic promises and then can’t deliver on them, everyone suffers. So when we attend a trade show or give an interview, we’re there to talk about what we’re getting ready to ship, not to speculate on what we might ship someday.”

I understand that some players would prefer a different manner of communication. I wanted to share the comments above to show that silence does not point to inaction or neglect or indifference.

I think people understand what decision was made about not talking about future software development until you have already worked on it. The problem is this is counter-intuitive to software design and industry standards.

I am the head of IT at my company and I could most definitely not ignore serious feedback about our services or product and then go radio silent until we were halfway done. This is a serious issue especially since the direction of development over the years has geared towards continuous integration, constant innovation and being proactive about communication with the product owners and/or client and getting constant feedback so that problems can be corrected early and often. Everything about the choice here is counter intuitive to actually addressing the problem. Precisely because you do not engage in enough back and forth feedback and make small iterative changes where you can quickly gain feedback and adjust what you’ve done to match the needs of the customer, you go long periods of time building what you guys think is the issue, then deploy it and half of it works and half of it does not. Then we get some minor input and then you go radio silent for another 6 months. Seems to just be an incredibly broken process and one IMO that should be re-evaluated.

Haematic.4913:

Chaba.5410:

Sorry Gaile, it isn’t about in-game rivalries. It’s about frustration with Anet who has a more direct hand in match-making now through manual glicko adjustments and server linking choices without taking the time to understand the community trends going on with those teams.

http://imgur.com/nqzK9io

I thought your post was nicely written and quite clear in expressing an opinion.

There’s a downward spiral caused by lack of visible action where wvw is concerned. Perception is very important to retain and gain customers- just ask United Airlines.

It’s all well and good coming on and reminding us of the direction you’d like to see posts go Gaile, but seeing as the only other visible dev post in these forums is about working on scoring phase 2 which has taken six months, you can expect the majority of players (who haven’t already left) to be fairly salty (except the white horse riders).

It would encourage wvw players no end if there was even a wvw team, and as others have said, for a dev or two to pop in and comment on issues people raise in these forums. The ghost thief issue is a case in point- months and months of complaints in wvw forums, nothing done. As soon as one solos a raid, wham, nerfbat.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Haematic.4913:

Chaba.5410:

Sorry Gaile, it isn’t about in-game rivalries. It’s about frustration with Anet who has a more direct hand in match-making now through manual glicko adjustments and server linking choices without taking the time to understand the community trends going on with those teams.

http://imgur.com/nqzK9io

Yep, and I’ve already replaced the post and spoken to the moderator who removed it. If that satisfies you, you can delete this post yourself. or delete the first post and leave the second you made. Whatever works for you.

Thank you. Correcting mistakes matters.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Namer.9750:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Vermillion.4061:

Most of the players in WvW are just upset that nothing has really happened in months and we feel like we’ve been ignored.

We just want to see what is actually going on behind the scenes with WvW, maybe given some DevBlog update style stuff since you’ve been mostly silent on what is changing and being worked on.

Different companies communicate in different ways and sometimes the process evolves over the years. Mike O’Brien explained how we choose to communicate in this forum post a few years ago. What he said was, “We’ve set a clear policy in the past year: we don’t talk speculatively about future development. We don’t want to string you along. Creating fun is an uncertain business: sometimes things work out and sometimes they don’t; sometimes we go back to the drawing board over and over before we get something right. If we make optimistic promises and then can’t deliver on them, everyone suffers. So when we attend a trade show or give an interview, we’re there to talk about what we’re getting ready to ship, not to speculate on what we might ship someday.”

I understand that some players would prefer a different manner of communication. I wanted to share the comments above to show that silence does not point to inaction or neglect or indifference.

The topic of conversation doesn’t matter. Nobody’s asking to talk about future developments.

What people here want is actual communication. Look at how many ANet devs often make cheeky oneliner comments on Reddit. It fosters a sense of cooperation there, and people on Reddit know that the Devs are listening even if no Dev ever actually talks about future releases.

We need that here. We need the active presence of a few different devs, so that people know they’re being listened to. So far, regardless of what you may say about WvW not being abandoned and Devs are listening, it sure as hell doesn’t feel like it here.

In an ideal world, a dev could post without making disclosures, could joke without being lambasted, could participate without expectations of meaty information or forward-looking disclosures. But when someone does share information and still ends up on the toasty end of a marshmallow fork, I’m not sure if that’s possible.

I’d love it if it was, but have seen so many “verbal downvotes” for non-disclosure interaction. I’ll discuss — we’ll see. Thanks for the suggestions.

There is no we’ll see, Gaile. We are asking the WvW team talk to us. The reason there is so much lambasting, griping, whining, and overall negative atmosphere is the lack of interaction with the community that pours their entire being into building a community of competitive players.

We see this as an investment of our time and worth our effort and we do not see the same attitude coming from the team that is supposed to represent us as players and leaders. We are only asking for some developer communication in form of “We’re looking into X”, “We’re considering Y”, “Give us feedback about Z”.

A thriving community comes from both ends and finds common ground in the middle. But what common ground can we find but barren wastelands and empty conversations with a silent god?

PvE gets huge patchs with storylines, instances, new maps and raids every 3 months. PvP gets new seasons, exclusive rewards and the most careful, extensive and well thought balance changes. WvW gets one small balance change, a new UI element, three bug fixes, a tap in the back and the promise that you guys are working on something.

I know that WvW has some sandbox nature and requires a bit less maintenance than PvE. But of this is not neglect, I don’the know what it is.

Pumpkin.5169:

PvE gets huge patchs with storylines, instances, new maps and raids every 3 months. PvP gets new seasons, exclusive rewards and the most careful, extensive and well thought balance changes. WvW gets one small balance change, a new UI element, three bug fixes, a tap in the back and the promise that you guys are working on something.

I know that WvW has some sandbox nature and requires a bit less maintenance than PvE. But of this is not neglect, I don’the know what it is.

Just a small correction:
WvW has 0 sandbox nature, u dont even select the updates now they are automated, even those options are just option nothing to do with sandbox

Gaile Gray.6029:

Haematic.4913:

Chaba.5410:

Sorry Gaile, it isn’t about in-game rivalries. It’s about frustration with Anet who has a more direct hand in match-making now through manual glicko adjustments and server linking choices without taking the time to understand the community trends going on with those teams.

http://imgur.com/nqzK9io

Yep, and I’ve already replaced the post and spoken to the moderator who removed it. If that satisfies you, you can delete the image-bearing post yourself, or delete the first post and leave the second you made. Whatever works for you.

That’s good that you corrected the mistake, but i feel like this only further points out that there are issues in communication between players and anet. When a well written post that has no reason to be removed is taken down and the person infracted, it only serves to exasperate already angry people even more. Its hard for players to talk about issues when they are rooted in things which you have effectively “banned” us from talking about matchups, server pop, relinkings, ect as most of the posts are removed or closed , a lot of the time with good reason i will admit but even when we’re having majority good discussion they are often closed with simple reasons like no matchup threads given.

You say you’re open to communication with us but how are we supposed to communicate when we make a thread about a topic pertaining to the current situation in wvw and it gets locked because someone at anet deems it a matchup thread or a , my world link sucks thread ect.

Im sorry Gaile but lack of comunication is big here. We as comunity will start tristing you when we get posts made by you like: ex: “hello comunity, wich main changes would u like in tje next patch., balance in wvw specs that r op , better rewards and points given etc”

If we as a community want more interaction, we need to do our part. That means treating devs who post here with respect, not jumping all over them. I know that we’re starved for communication – I am too. I know how easy it is to unload on someone with a red tag because they showed up and we’re just wanting to be heard.

We’re capable of communication that isn’t rude or insulting – those styles are choices people make. And we’ve seen that style of communication not work… and ruin it for the whole forum.

We get to own our behavior as a community. Let’s do so, and change it.

Because a beloved game mode is at stake. It’s worth it.

Gaile Gray.6029:

GrahamW.5397:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Haematic.4913:

Chaba.5410:

Sorry Gaile, it isn’t about in-game rivalries. It’s about frustration with Anet who has a more direct hand in match-making now through manual glicko adjustments and server linking choices without taking the time to understand the community trends going on with those teams.

http://imgur.com/nqzK9io

Yep, and I’ve already replaced the post and spoken to the moderator who removed it. If that satisfies you, you can delete the image-bearing post yourself, or delete the first post and leave the second you made. Whatever works for you.

That’s good that you corrected the mistake, but i feel like this only further points out that there are issues in communication between players and anet. When a well written post that has no reason to be removed is taken down and the person infracted, it only serves to exasperate already angry people even more. Its hard for players to talk about issues when they are rooted in things which you have effectively “banned” us from talking about matchups, server pop, relinkings, ect as most of the posts are removed or closed , a lot of the time with good reason i will admit but even when we’re having majority good discussion they are often closed with simple reasons like no matchup threads given.

You say you’re open to communication with us but how are we supposed to communicate when we make a thread about a topic pertaining to the current situation in wvw and it gets locked because someone at anet deems it a matchup thread or a , my world link sucks thread ect.

Questions about moderation can be addressed to Forums@Arena.Net. That’s not a brush-off, that’s the best way to discuss something.

In my view — and I’ve looked with care — the threads that are being removed or locked are indeed argument threads. They’re often combative, negative, or rude. Often all three things. I don’t see the moderators “deeming” something as being a match-up thread, but accurately assessing that it is one. (If the term “match-up” is used in a generic sense.) Again, if there’s a genuine question, you can e-mail and we’ll review it.

People are going to disagree and butt heads in these kinds of threads, its not really something you can avoid. I don’t see a problem with letting them stay up as long as people aren’t being nasty and rude to each other. You aren’t going to get discussion by shutting things down whenever people have differing opinions, and we can’t have discussion when things that need to be discussed cause threads to be closed. I agreed that they are often derailed and just turn into argument threads, but even ones that aren’t get locked/closed so i honestly don’t know what you want us to do.

The problem with what a lot of people want ANet to do is that it depends so heavily on how you play WvW. Quite frankly, for the way I play WvW it feels great (though obviously not without faults) and I’m looking forward to the further skirmish reward updates to hopefully not make WvW a negative profit time expenditure. That said, we don’t get a lot of even playful banter from the devs here, and it makes people feel ignored and leave.

There’s a way as a company to do this well and communicate with the players without overpromising. The silence on topics like Ghost Thief and Epidemic is pretty shocking, as there was very nearly unanimous support for the skills being addressed. I realize both of those did eventually get fixed, but with no communication from ANet prior. Even some developer posts in the WvW forums saying “We’re looking at this internally now for possible adjustment” would go a long way toward benefiting the community and keeping people happy in that regard.

Sarika.3756:

If we as a community want more interaction, we need to do our part. That means treating devs who post here with respect, not jumping all over them. I know that we’re starved for communication – I am too. I know how easy it is to unload on someone with a red tag because they showed up and we’re just wanting to be heard.

We’re capable of communication that isn’t rude or insulting – those styles are choices people make. And we’ve seen that style of communication not work… and ruin it for the whole forum.

We get to own our behavior as a community. Let’s do so, and change it.

Because a beloved game mode is at stake. It’s worth it.

It goes both ways, but yeah.

Ones interpretation of “rude” or “insulting” in regards to WvW communication varies from one player to another. One could say it’s insulting they respond 1/1,000 posts.

It would be pretty easy to tally the threads, posts, and developer responses from the WvW sub-section (front page) and create a %; then do the same in a different sub-forum (say PvP?) and have a factual conversation with them about it instead of assuming.

Others could say it’s rude how they treat their customers in regards to their general complaints, but I digress.

More communications from the WvW development team will likely result in less “mass-replies” when a developer responds to a thread and these replies will likely follow a more constructive curve instead of a negative one.

Again, it goes both ways.

As i see it, it is the same bad the over hype and overselling than the cmplete lack of communication the business is applying now.

Just a couple of simple suggestions.

• why not to talk about the objectives and projects the different departments are working on. I do not believe a company of around 365 employees just don’t have any projects assigned to the different teams.

There are many topics to talk about, as graphic designers, gameplay programmers or servers architecture engineer. Possible new technologies the group is actively working on or the changes to the skills are the QA team maybe considering.

• And to avoid bashing the red post, just close the thread after the comment. Users may still open new threads to discuss, but this way will dilute the direct bashing the red post.

• And for the love of God, somebody that is very good at something doesn’t mean is good for a completely different thing. Get a couple of community managers that can do as a buffer between the technical employees and the costumers. Write in the forums in their name, translating what the employee want to say in a internet politeness compliance way.

Not everybody is good to deal with complains and salt, you need people with that special skillset. They can collect the actual questions and pass them thru to the adequate person and filter the unnecessary but understable salt.

Business public image is as important as the product itself. If one of those fail, the endeavour will ultimately fail.

Rising Dusk.2408:

The problem with what a lot of people want ANet to do is that it depends so heavily on how you play WvW. Quite frankly, for the way I play WvW it feels great (though obviously not without faults) and I’m looking forward to the further skirmish reward updates to hopefully not make WvW a negative profit time expenditure. That said, we don’t get a lot of even playful banter from the devs here, and it makes people feel ignored and leave.

There’s a way as a company to do this well and communicate with the players without overpromising. The silence on topics like Ghost Thief and Epidemic is pretty shocking, as there was very nearly unanimous support for the skills being addressed. I realize both of those did eventually get fixed, but with no communication from ANet prior. Even some developer posts in the WvW forums saying “We’re looking at this internally now for possible adjustment” would go a long way toward benefiting the community and keeping people happy in that regard.

Yes, EPI was / is probably one of the best examples of lack-of communication from the WvW developers and balance team; the “ninja” patch was honestly a low blow to most because 1.) it wasn’t expected to happen in that patch 2.) there was no indication what-so-ever that it was even considered for balance. It came as a surprise, but it wasn’t a pleasant one to be honest, it’s still a very over-powered skill but this is not the issue here in this thread.

Yes, no, and maybe? I have engaged in bad etiquette, and I have done good etiquette (if that is a thing).

It is correct to not shout out commitments for things that are not done already.

I would say that developers (the ones doing the coding, art, and production) shouldn’t spend every single day browsing forums. It’s a waste of their time, and ANET’s money consequently. I say this only because a majority of topics have too much ‘feeling’ (not necessarily bad etiquette), or are out of scope ideas due to the small budget WvW is perceived to have by the play-base. Or at least my perception.

While Gaile gave examples of match-up…this would be my example of posts with just ‘feeling’:

My example of posts out of ‘scope’ :

So yes, etiquette is an issue. The real issue I perceive is budget, simply by the lack of deliverables, and thus the lack of communication because they can’t talk about their accomplishments (those deliverables in this chain!)

And no, I am not asking you to reveal your budget. That’d be unholy to Dwayna.

Haematic.4913:

Rising Dusk.2408:

The problem with what a lot of people want ANet to do is that it depends so heavily on how you play WvW. Quite frankly, for the way I play WvW it feels great (though obviously not without faults) and I’m looking forward to the further skirmish reward updates to hopefully not make WvW a negative profit time expenditure. That said, we don’t get a lot of even playful banter from the devs here, and it makes people feel ignored and leave.

There’s a way as a company to do this well and communicate with the players without overpromising. The silence on topics like Ghost Thief and Epidemic is pretty shocking, as there was very nearly unanimous support for the skills being addressed. I realize both of those did eventually get fixed, but with no communication from ANet prior. Even some developer posts in the WvW forums saying “We’re looking at this internally now for possible adjustment” would go a long way toward benefiting the community and keeping people happy in that regard.

Yes, EPI was / is probably one of the best examples of lack-of communication from the WvW developers and balance team; the “ninja” patch was honestly a low blow to most because 1.) it wasn’t expected to happen in that patch 2.) there was no indication what-so-ever that it was even considered for balance. It came as a surprise, but it wasn’t a pleasant one to be honest, it’s still a very over-powered skill but this is not the issue here in this thread.

Epi is (might be )fine its the other sum of all “overall” easy to spam sources that are wrongly buffed… in favour of what devs feel class should behave in favour ofpve:\, Epi would be the way to pressure, and not the easiest one, dont forget game is all about numbers and low effort at the end.

Alot of players are asking for balances that would affect pve way to much balanced, and alot of players would have to get better or play in team.

The problem in this game is PVE >:}

Gaile Gray.6029:

Namer.9750:

I believe that a lot of these threads and posts are an outburst against what the majority see as an utter neglect of the game mode. Whether this statement is objectively true or not doesn’t matter, perceptions do.

I understand. I do appreciate that while we know we’re working on things, and know what we’re working on, the players do not. Our policy is not to give a future-looking accounting of works in progress but to analzye, gather input from players (through a variety of means including frequent reading of the forums), develop, and release.

Most players have been around long enough, or know the company well enough, to understand how we work, but it’s undoubtedly true that the desire for more info can drive people to posting unwisely. Nobody likes to have their post removed, and we all benefit from a better forum climate. So I’m hoping a few comments in aid of “prudent posting practices” will not go amiss.

Here lies the biggest problem that anet keeps skirting around the issue of developer participation, anet always states the excuse of talking about future content, when there are many issues and topics that players would appreciate a word on. Stuff like bugs, balance, or even mechanics. Tyler Bearse seemed to be on track with that in his limited time with us, even got the long standing issue of building siege in citadel area fixed. Spvp forums seems to have more of that than the wvw section.

Future content news is not the only developer input we ask for. I can understand not talking about future content, but not saying little to nothing at all for long periods of time on everything.

It really just boils down to the fact that the game mode’s PvP is less fun than the forum PvP these days.

The WvW team isn’t really at fault here – at least for the past year. They’ve done a fair amount to at least try to help things move along better with what’s within their authority.

What doesn’t help is that we know there is deliberate negligence coming to the format from upper management. We as a community know that previous WvW devs were pulled from their development tasks here to go help improve the flow of other content areas, notably PvE.

It doesn’t help that there’s the blatant and obvious disconnect between the management that controls these decisions and the community itself – MO’s infamous “WvW players enjoy PvE” quote.

It doesn’t help that the entire contents of a featured expansion only did damage and nothing more to the format out of this disconnect, and how testers were not from the WvW community.

It doesn’t help that the gameplay is anti-fun in the PvP scene, both in WvW and sPvP, because of the elite specs’ design failing to reach standards of players involved in competitive play in favor of “fun” for PvE with a lack of design towards PvP environments. The fact that pro league and ESL players in the PvP forums make non-insulting feedback threads condemning the state of the game to try and get ANet to realize what they’ve done, and then for us to watch those posts get deleted and their accounts banned for defacing and insulting the company says a tremendous amount about what actually gets communicated. These posts still exist on Google’s archives. People still reference these things because of how kitten ing they are.

It doesn’t help that historically more damage has been done to this format every patch than good.

There comes a point in time where people who enjoy this community and what the game had to offer no longer find the game worth their time. And yet they’re still very passionate about either the matchup or the format or whatever it is. So in their frustrated boredom they’d rather be part of the community and talk a little smack than sit wasting hours in a game that is simply not fun to play.

Because frankly, that’s what it comes down to. The game is just no longer fun. It’s rampant with a compounding set of poor design and implementation decisions. The disconnect is real and quite obvious. WvW isn’t being taken seriously game-wide, and I think that’s one of the biggest problems. People have played uneven matchups for years. Things didn’t really start going south until after HoT. We’ve consolidated servers and there are still less people active per matchup than before. Most of it has nothing to do with matchmaking and population.

Most people, myself included, have just given up hope entirely. There’s more joy in cat-posting here and just not caring than there is in playing the game itself. That’s a problem. And one which has been totally ignored.

DeceiverX.8361:

It really just boils down to the fact that the game mode’s PvP is less fun than the forum PvP these days.

The WvW team isn’t really at fault here – at least for the past year. They’ve done a fair amount to at least try to help things move along better with what’s within their authority.

What doesn’t help is that we know there is deliberate negligence coming to the format from upper management. We as a community know that previous WvW devs were pulled from their development tasks here to go help improve the flow of other content areas, notably PvE.

It doesn’t help that there’s the blatant and obvious disconnect between the management that controls these decisions and the community itself – MO’s infamous “WvW players enjoy PvE” quote.

It doesn’t help that the entire contents of a featured expansion only did damage and nothing more to the format out of this disconnect, and how testers were not from the WvW community.

It doesn’t help that the gameplay is anti-fun in the PvP scene, both in WvW and sPvP, because of the elite specs’ design failing to reach standards of players involved in competitive play in favor of “fun” for PvE with a lack of design towards PvP environments. The fact that pro league and ESL players in the PvP forums make non-insulting feedback threads condemning the state of the game to try and get ANet to realize what they’ve done, and then for us to watch those posts get deleted and their accounts banned for defacing and insulting the company says a tremendous amount about what actually gets communicated. These posts still exist on Google’s archives. People still reference these things because of how kitten ing they are.

It doesn’t help that historically more damage has been done to this format every patch than good.

There comes a point in time where people who enjoy this community and what the game had to offer no longer find the game worth their time. And yet they’re still very passionate about either the matchup or the format or whatever it is. So in their frustrated boredom they’d rather be part of the community and talk a little smack than sit wasting hours in a game that is simply not fun to play.

Because frankly, that’s what it comes down to. The game is just no longer fun. It’s rampant with a compounding set of poor design and implementation decisions. The disconnect is real and quite obvious. WvW isn’t being taken seriously game-wide, and I think that’s one of the biggest problems. People have played uneven matchups for years. Things didn’t really start going south until after HoT. We’ve consolidated servers and there are still less people active per matchup than before. Most of it has nothing to do with matchmaking and population.

Most people, myself included, have just given up hope entirely. There’s more joy in cat-posting here and just not caring than there is in playing the game itself. That’s a problem. And one which has been totally ignored.

The game is still plenty fun, but lack of communication and slow, inconsistent and sometimes seemingly abandoned/non existent updates make it stagnate and will drive people away. Whenever we ask about it the threads just end up locked and we never get any real answers. Ofc people are going to dissipate in an environment like that.

Sarika.3756:

The sad part is that there is a specific set of forum posters who are most likely to derail a thread from something constructive into match-up. They often add jabs at whichever server they don’t particularly like, and that stirs the pot. Maybe it’s not just the threads that need a time out, but some of the posters most likely to derail things down the match-up rabbit hole?

Admittedly I’m one of those trolls. Although my post tend to post facts with side jabs. Frankly I’m tired of seeing the same threads about certain servers show up here, or the weekly thread on tournaments which every single time ends up with like 20 replies of why not. The ones who need a break are the ones posting exactly what Gaile came here to post about, we see it every week, enough already.

In Baruch Bay we call this Salseo, like Drama but better.

WvW comunnity should learn to not hit the hand that feeds them.

A Dev makes a post about the Flute in WvW, the people become salty and start talking about the condition damage and dead game, the Dev stop asking…

Is a Dev a human being? I mean, with feelings and all that…

If i was one of them, i will not write in the forum either…

But do whatever you want.

GrahamW.5397:

DeceiverX.8361:

It really just boils down to the fact that the game mode’s PvP is less fun than the forum PvP these days.

The WvW team isn’t really at fault here – at least for the past year. They’ve done a fair amount to at least try to help things move along better with what’s within their authority.

What doesn’t help is that we know there is deliberate negligence coming to the format from upper management. We as a community know that previous WvW devs were pulled from their development tasks here to go help improve the flow of other content areas, notably PvE.

It doesn’t help that there’s the blatant and obvious disconnect between the management that controls these decisions and the community itself – MO’s infamous “WvW players enjoy PvE” quote.

It doesn’t help that the entire contents of a featured expansion only did damage and nothing more to the format out of this disconnect, and how testers were not from the WvW community.

It doesn’t help that the gameplay is anti-fun in the PvP scene, both in WvW and sPvP, because of the elite specs’ design failing to reach standards of players involved in competitive play in favor of “fun” for PvE with a lack of design towards PvP environments. The fact that pro league and ESL players in the PvP forums make non-insulting feedback threads condemning the state of the game to try and get ANet to realize what they’ve done, and then for us to watch those posts get deleted and their accounts banned for defacing and insulting the company says a tremendous amount about what actually gets communicated. These posts still exist on Google’s archives. People still reference these things because of how kitten ing they are.

It doesn’t help that historically more damage has been done to this format every patch than good.

There comes a point in time where people who enjoy this community and what the game had to offer no longer find the game worth their time. And yet they’re still very passionate about either the matchup or the format or whatever it is. So in their frustrated boredom they’d rather be part of the community and talk a little smack than sit wasting hours in a game that is simply not fun to play.

Because frankly, that’s what it comes down to. The game is just no longer fun. It’s rampant with a compounding set of poor design and implementation decisions. The disconnect is real and quite obvious. WvW isn’t being taken seriously game-wide, and I think that’s one of the biggest problems. People have played uneven matchups for years. Things didn’t really start going south until after HoT. We’ve consolidated servers and there are still less people active per matchup than before. Most of it has nothing to do with matchmaking and population.

Most people, myself included, have just given up hope entirely. There’s more joy in cat-posting here and just not caring than there is in playing the game itself. That’s a problem. And one which has been totally ignored.

The game is still plenty fun, but lack of communication and slow, inconsistent and sometimes seemingly abandoned/non existent updates make it stagnate and will drive people away. Whenever we ask about it the threads just end up locked and we never get any real answers. Ofc people are going to dissipate in an environment like that.

A lot of the recent mass-quitting has little to do with communication and more to do with the game just not being fun.

If ANet never spoke nor interacted with us but landed every patch flawlelessly in terms of improving WvW and/or the PvP experience, I don’t think people would be complaining much because there wouldn’t be much to complain about The no-communication policy wouldn’t be a big deal because obviously the players’ interests were making it to the game, anyways.

The lack of communication is nothing new, and nobody should be expecting that to improve, or base their decision on leaving or staying because of it.

It may reduce morale and may make people feel more of a reason to stop bothering, but at the end of the day, what makes people leave is the game just no longer being fun for them.

And what makes them not come back (as many haven’t done) is the game just not being fun in general even after taking time off.

i read enough WvW forums to the point i feel sorry that Gaile waste his time on reading most of this.

Honestly i feel like he one of the few dev really trying to put in effort to make game better. everyone just kitten talk him.

Actually, I don’t think people got the point of Illconceived Was Na.9781’s post. It was more about how people went off on off-topic rants almost to the point where it just seems like excess baggage to be let off on sight of a red name.

Anyhow, I’d like a sticky about what constitutes a match up thread.

I believe such a post existed in the past but it’s gone and thus people don’t know if it’s allowed or not. Don’t forget the search function is broken.

It should be obvious, however I have seen people simply posting a video that happened to contain gameplay for the current week that get closed for being a matchup thread….

Gaile Gray.6029:

Aury.1367:

Maybe thats because people feel like anet has canceled the whole WvW-support. I saw I got aggressive and salty the last months. No reason to act like this in PvE. But WvW is just depressing.

I am sorry if players feel that way. I see it in posts, sure. But I believe we’ve made it clear that the game mode has not been abandoned. That was confirmed quite recently when a dev made some comments about upcoming changes. Unfortunately, the thread devolved into dev bashing, and the OP asked that we remove it.

I feel that while things may not be perfect, they are not as dire as some forum members paint them. Continuously dwelling on the negative isn’t necessary or productive and it doesn’t represent the true nature of the game mode.

Thank you Gaile for this wonderful post.

All this ranting about the state of WvW on the forums is complete nonsense. The game mode is most definitely not dead, it’s been running stable for the entire time GW2 has been alive. Many players have quit the game, sure, and that shows, but the population is still generally huge, which means people are having fun with the gamemode.

Mechanics-wise, nothing has really changed. WvW today is not any worse than WvW 4 years ago, quite the opposite. All the improvements have made it only better. The mode hasn’t changed for the worse, but the community has. Everyone is so salty these days. I never hear or see complaints in-game or anywhere else, just here on the forums. My guess is, the people who rant here don’t actually even bother to play the gamemode, they just like to be loud and demand more things.

Sure, with GW2’s old engine and balancing difficulties, WvW is not perfect, and will always need polishing. But take a second and think about this: despite the lag, balancing issues, poor rewards and salty complainers, literally hundreds and hundreds of players still log in every single day and form queues in WvW on almost every server. Dozens of WvW guilds raid every single night. The gamemode is far from dead and abandoned, and people are loving it. Personally, I’ve never had more fun as I am having now.

Taobella.6597:

i read enough WvW forums to the point i feel sorry that Gaile waste his time on reading most of this.

Honestly i feel like he one of the few dev really trying to put in effort to make game better. everyone just kitten talk him.

Gaile is female. Most of her posts are to the GW2 community in general. She likes frogs. Unfortunately, WvW does not have someone that talks to our community like Gaile does. She mains a ranger, one of a few classes that has been mostly unwanted in WvW.

Swamurabi.7890:

Taobella.6597:

i read enough WvW forums to the point i feel sorry that Gaile waste his time on reading most of this.

Honestly i feel like he one of the few dev really trying to put in effort to make game better. everyone just kitten talk him.

Gaile is female. Most of her posts are to the GW2 community in general. She likes frogs. Unfortunately, WvW does not have someone that talks to our community like Gaile does. She mains a ranger, one of a few classes that has been mostly unwanted in WvW.

Dont forget the dual bow build, and she is a ninja as well.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I understand that some players would prefer a different manner of communication. I wanted to share the comments above to show that silence does not point to inaction or neglect or indifference.

I don’t mean to to toot my own horn here, or for this to come across as snide but anet’s lack of communication is the root of the problem. I feel this way because I’ve seen it before. Over a year ago I made a post that basically outlined the same problem that is happening here. Sure the post was aligned with the ranger subsection at the time, but here it is again just for the record.

Eval.2371:

The moment we feel we are being ignored and not having a conversation about the classes with anet, is the same moment we go off into nonsensical unconstructive posts. Please do something about breaking the current pattern we have in regards with communication about the ranger class.

A year ago it was ranger section had some pretty appalling threads. I won’t say it was my post specifically but eventually when the devs started communicating again that subsection did have some good discussions for a while and many positive things came of it.

I’ll reiterate. The base of players here don’t feel that anything they post constructive or not will go anywhere so why bother putting any effort into posts or suggestions. That’s what happening here. People aren’t seeing any progress being made with WvW nor do they see any kind of results from constructive communication. They post feedback, the community has a discussion and nothing happens. People become jaded or apathic and the result is the low quality posts that you are complaining about. People have nothing left to do but call each other names and bicker on here.

If you want quality discussion with the community you got to realize it takes two sides to have a conversation. We all understand MO’s no talking about ships that are not sailing approach, but it comes with consequences this is one of them. If you want things to change here, then I implore you to seek out MO about dialog with the wvw community. I feel it is the only way things start to change for the better around here.