Guild Wars 2

It was funny. Burn stacking is 100x worse than “we heal as one” and yet ANET still hasn’t done anything about it.

Rangers better enjoy the Druid during beta. I’m sure it will be nerfed hard before release.

AgitatedFox.5287:

I said this once I’ll say it again. Perma quickness was never a thing. I
Saw a pic of someone getting 1 min earlier and I don’t know how, but considering what you had to do to get16s alone you can bet your balls it wasn’t practical in any way

I’m gonna guess some “Feel My Wrath!” or Time Warp was involved.

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

I said it of the recent event and it bears repeating here: you need an in-house ‘hostile tester’ whose job is not to just validate the content works if it’s run exactly as the designers envision it being approached, but instead ACTIVELY tries to break content.

This is another example of an idea that was rubber stamped as not crashing the game when it should have been given intense scrutiny (and re-worked) long before it reached the public eye.

The constructive criticism to be gleaned is “improve your testing process”, because this is becoming a habit. You have 5,000,000 players, most of them linked by the internet. The worst case scenario is the only scenario that’s gonna matter and it will spread like wildfire.

The nerf was definitely needed, but the fact that this went live to begin with evidences a problem internally that doesn’t bode well for Rangers.

It didn’t even take a super experienced Ranger to notice the ability to stack perma quickness within a few hours of the patch being live.

The fact that NOBODY noticed it internally tells you very few of them know the Ranger class that well and they must do almost no testing of changes prior to these patches going live.

In one respect, you have to give Anet kudos because overall the patch was pretty good…especially if they did limited testing…but it’s boneheaded mistakes like this that make you scratch your head and wonder how on earth it got live.

DaShi.1368:

Aomine.5012:

At this point it’s no longer about whether it’s a buff or nerf anymore.

It’s how Anet sees ranger.

No, it’s not. The trait was not acting as intended. I’m sorry that you feel that rangers need broken traits to be competitive, but Anet is going to fix these regardless of what class. Both guardians and engineers had traits disabled because they were not acting as intended. It has nothing to do with class preference, but instead appropriate game balance.

Let’s not forget that it is still a buff from Heal As One.

I am sorry you are completely and utterly wrong. Heal As One was working as intended. What part of it wasn’t?

“We Heal As One!”: This skill now simultaneously copies all boons from your pet to you and from you to your pet.

Is your idea of balance to nerf and already low tier class? Heal As One is back to useless. The boon perk no longer is viable in pvp since boons can also be easily stripped. I truly enjoy how the community chose to ignore that fact.

Here is what you guys don’t get… ANET is actively seeking to weaken power based classes across the game. Instead the are moving towards a more tanky condi spam game play. A lot of that is driven by PvE decisions (mobs in HoT are more resistant to physical damage but do get hurt a lot by conditions), but it is bleeding over into PvP.

ANET believes that a dumbed down version of the game will drive more people to it. We won’t know for a year or so after HoT gets old and the F2P people decide to either stay or go.

Tapioca.9062:

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

+1

DaShi.1368:

Aomine.5012:

At this point it’s no longer about whether it’s a buff or nerf anymore.

It’s how Anet sees ranger.

No, it’s not. The trait was not acting as intended. I’m sorry that you feel that rangers need broken traits to be competitive, but Anet is going to fix these regardless of what class. Both guardians and engineers had traits disabled because they were not acting as intended. It has nothing to do with class preference, but instead appropriate game balance.

Let’s not forget that it is still a buff from Heal As One.

We feel that rangers need broken traits to be competitive? Ranger hasn’t been competitive since Guild Wars 1! Even with this ‘broken’ functionality, no rangers were going to make it into tournaments. The profession needs serious help, and I don’t see any on the way.

Used it post patch and can barely feel WHaO now…

Puck.9612:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

They could just make it so it only copies boons while in combat. This would allow rangers to get stronger as the fight goes on, but prevent people from stacking so much that they enter fights fully buffed.

If people want to front load damage they have to deal with the risk vs. reward of blowing cooldowns and their heal to buff themselves when they first engage a fight. Otherwise they have to put a lot of thought into when they use their cooldowns and heal. Either way they wouldn’t have permanent boons.

Or they could just make it not copy quickness but all the others? Since, apparently, quickness was the problem and what everbody was QQ’ing about

SPESHAL.9106:

The nerf was definitely needed, but the fact that this went live to begin with evidences a problem internally that doesn’t bode well for Rangers.

It didn’t even take a super experienced Ranger to notice the ability to stack perma quickness within a few hours of the patch being live.

The fact that NOBODY noticed it internally tells you very few of them know the Ranger class that well and they must do almost no testing of changes prior to these patches going live.

In one respect, you have to give Anet kudos because overall the patch was pretty good…especially if they did limited testing…but it’s boneheaded mistakes like this that make you scratch your head and wonder how on earth it got live.

Have you tested in real combat?

That so OP quickness during PVP?

Or are you just bluffing?

Read my post on the upper one again and see how unrealistic the quickness stacking is. Plus they not only take away quickness, but destroy EVERYTHING ELSE.

‘We Heal as One!’

The boon copy effect is very interesting, but with the new flat duration, you can’t even ‘feel’ the boons. Little tweaks could give a bit of punch without breaking the game;

Quickness – 2s
Protection – 2s
Resistance – 2s
Fury – From 3s
Stability – 3s
Swiftness – 3s
Vigor – 3s
Aegis – 8s
Regeneration – 5s
Retaliation – 5s
Might – 3 stacks

One more thing, TU is still better in most case even before the nerf.

Nike.2631:

I said it of the recent event and it bears repeating here: you need an in-house ‘hostile tester’ whose job is not to just validate the content works if it’s run exactly as the designers envision it being approached, but instead ACTIVELY tries to break content.

This is another example of an idea that was rubber stamped as not crashing the game when it should have been given intense scrutiny (and re-worked) long before it reached the public eye.

The constructive criticism to be gleaned is “improve your testing process”, because this is becoming a habit. You have 5,000,000 players, most of them linked by the internet. The worst case scenario is the only scenario that’s gonna matter and it will spread like wildfire.

Yeah this really bothers me. Did they really not see how WHaO would interact with our traits and skills? I’m pretty sure every ranger here new exactly how the change would affect our boons. I immediately had a build in mind that I wanted to test out as soon as the WHaO change was announced.

If the dev’s were as surprised by this as their knee jerk reaction makes it seem they need to hire someone new to focus entirely on class balance.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Puck.9612:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

They could just make it so it only copies boons while in combat. This would allow rangers to get stronger as the fight goes on, but prevent people from stacking so much that they enter fights fully buffed.

If people want to front load damage they have to deal with the risk vs. reward of blowing cooldowns and their heal to buff themselves when they first engage a fight. Otherwise they have to put a lot of thought into when they use their cooldowns and heal. Either way they wouldn’t have permanent boons.

Or they could just make it not copy quickness but all the others? Since, apparently, quickness was the problem and what everbody was QQ’ing about

I thought that that was the case, but then Roy capped the might stacking at 3 stacks maximum. Apparently, rangers aren’t allowed to stack might…

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

SPESHAL.9106:

The nerf was definitely needed, but the fact that this went live to begin with evidences a problem internally that doesn’t bode well for Rangers.

It didn’t even take a super experienced Ranger to notice the ability to stack perma quickness within a few hours of the patch being live.

The fact that NOBODY noticed it internally tells you very few of them know the Ranger class that well and they must do almost no testing of changes prior to these patches going live.

In one respect, you have to give Anet kudos because overall the patch was pretty good…especially if they did limited testing…but it’s boneheaded mistakes like this that make you scratch your head and wonder how on earth it got live.

You do understand there are skills to remove buffs?
You do understand killing a rangers pet makes heal as one only apply self heal and doesn’t transfer anything?

I do agree the quickness needed to be addressed, but now they over nerfed it. It is absolutely useless to use in pvp.

Simply put this nerf was unjustified, untested, and unless you violate ToS, you’d need to use AutoHotkey just to be able to apply boons properly. The timing needs to be perfect to share boons with pets now.

Gaile Gray.6029:

oshilator.4681:

What guarantee do we have that they’ll read any of this?

Because one of the key designers stood at my desk 20 minutes ago and told me. I trust him. I hope you trust me enough to know I wouldn’t say this if it wasn’t true: This thread will be read.

But again, constructive is the key, and I’m hoping that people won’t continue to flare, but will give good, substantive feedback.

Edit to add: Many of the comments are constructive and valuable. Didn’t mean to suggest otherwise.

In light of this I have few things to say:

I can name a handful of people that have made numerous well thought out posts that are supported by many and all of these post just simply dive off this forum section. Buried forever. If the devs want ideas on how to improve the class, they really should start digging into post history of the ranger section. To name a few people:Tragic Postive, Jcbro, Heimskarl Ashfiend, and Puck have all made some posts that really resonated with where I would like to see ranger be or directions that ranger could be heading.

With that said a lot of people are frustrated with ranger. Really the class aside from the pet has many of the same tools as other classes, just weaker versions of things on shorter cooldowns. Which does not allow us to stand out anywhere and it makes the class really frustrating to play as because it does not accel at anything or feel unique in any ways other than pets and longbow. Which makes a large portion of our class feel unrewarding and watered down.

I think half of our problem is weapons:

Weapon wise we have a problem. Longbow is really the only weapon done really well. Greatsword is really close but is lacking compared to GS on other classes(it only has 3 person cleave, has long windups and low damage, buggy animations etc its high risk low reward weapon). All of our weapons need some love. Comparatively our bases on many of our weapons are terrible compared to other classes using the same weapons. Some of our weapons do not functionally work like short bow. I couldn’t tell you where to exactly begin on changing our weapons but there are many posts out there already that could.

The other half is utilities.

Now don’t get me wrong. Survival and signets are done really well. All of them have clear actives and uses. Additionally they are used as intended. That said the rest of our utilities have issues.

As someone else stated well in here and its been done before in many other threads as well, one of problematic families of utilities is shouts. Shouts for the most part, do not function well as their core intentions they are used for other reasons. IE most people use guard to make the pet invisible so they can set up a taunt, or make sure that the pet is not killed or to simply stack regen and swiftness. The intended use; to defend/deny an area is irrelevant.

We have very few utilities types aside from the two families mentioned two paragraphs above that are not like the above example. This is the second half of the problem. While these skills having multiple uses makes them flexible; it also makes them hard to balance and be fair, which is why they get tuned down and ultimately feel useless.

We heal as one is a prime example of this cycle where these skills that have either no substance or are too general and get something very well needed that makes the skills an interesting choice. Yes the changes were potentially broken, I don’t believe its the right direction for ranger and, I do not personally believe it was overpowered in rangers current state. I think that buffing many small things across the class is better than trying to make the class viable by buffing one skill. Which is what this kinda looked like, you guys threw us a bone we ran with it, people freaked not understanding counter play, and now here we are, with you guys taking away our bone.

Edit: and if you wanted to change the Guard to actually be used for its intended use change it to something like:

• removed stealth
• Stops cap
• Pet gains protection and regeneration.
• Pet becomes Unblockable and targets any opponet in the area its guarding.
• Pet auto attack gains a knockback buff every 3seconds while in area its guarding.
• Guard lasts 15 seconds
• Guard ends if the pet leaves its guarded area.
• CD-> 30 seconds

Additionally I want to come out say, while some of our traits still need tweaking, in general most of current specs are pretty solid and offer some interesting choices. Kudos to groups of people responsible for that. I am thankful you guys are still making some improves on things like MDG. Are our traits perfect? No, but they are meaningful have substance which that counts more than anything else.

Lastly, there is a certain outlook/stigma that most of the ranger player base has gained about the devs on class favoritism/bias and I completely understand why. I am not going to point fingers, but certain classes have gotten better treatment; more frequent responses, changes being give and go(rather than taking away), more frequent improvements, etc. the issue with this there is a large base believes you folk hate one of your classes and actively ignore the group of people that give feedback on it. This needs to change. A lot of it has to do with communication and I’ve said this before on reddit and I’ll say it again, it is beyond poor Gaile Grey to keep active feedback and constructive communication between the devs and the base in the ranger section on class changes/progression. We need more people talking on anets side to and with us. The moment we feel we are being ignored and not having a conversation about the classes with anet, is the same moment we go off into nonsensical unconstructive posts. Please do something about breaking the current pattern we have in regards with communication about the ranger class.

Will be Done editing for speeeeeeeling and more better grammar I more than likely missed some things somewhere oh well.

Let’s be honest:

Anet hates ranger.

Community thinks ranger need to be the bottom class or the game is broken.

There’re many fake rangers in the forum saying they’re so brokenly OP.

Other forums’ OP classes (Guardian, Mesmer, Ele) always say they’re UP.

Ranger can’t have nice things.

Eval the biggest issue with Rangers is that we are balanced around the pet. Our pet dies often really easily in pve or in pvp they don’t hit often enough. Pay attention to your pet when you pvp you will notice that they miss over half the time if not closer to 70% of the time against anyone who doesn’t stand still.

A nerf was expected but I think this made it useless. I use it and I don’t feel the effect. Sure before I use QZ and FB doubled the quickness, then WHaO doubles that, but now none of them doubles it, they give a meager flat buff. WHaO has 1 sec casting time that means that I need to spend 1 sec to get those 2 sec buffs, evening it out in my eyes. FB even grants it to the pet, not us, and the pet is easily killed.

I mean really, everytime we get something going for us, be it spirits, quickness, etc, it gets nerfed immediately, but guys like the Eles take years to get nerfed. The build was already fragile, depending heavily on the pet being alive and with the refusal to make better AI for it, how easy it is to kill and needing to sacrifice your healing and trait to make it really powerful, I don’t get what you guys want from the ranger. We don’t belong in any gamemode outside PvE. Spirits can be killed unlike banners, We need to flank in order to inflict decent bleeding in comparison to other classes that can put out better conditions, pets can be killed and we lose DPS, etc… I mean really…At least leave the shout and FB a bit more powerful, as I’m not saying they weren’t OP, but still.

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

If that’s your argument, then what’s your response to the fact that other professions can keep 25 might stacks indefinitely, and more easily than ranger can? It wouldn’t be a problem if ranger were actually competitive in PvP without might stacking, but this isn’t really the case.

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Mcrocha.3891:

Elxdark.9702:

DaShi.1368:

Aomine.5012:

At this point it’s no longer about whether it’s a buff or nerf anymore.

It’s how Anet sees ranger.

No, it’s not. The trait was not acting as intended. I’m sorry that you feel that rangers need broken traits to be competitive, but Anet is going to fix these regardless of what class. Both guardians and engineers had traits disabled because they were not acting as intended. It has nothing to do with class preference, but instead appropriate game balance.

Please, explain us how it was so broken besides the quickness stack which was useless, unless you wanted to waste and entire line pet heal break stun and utility.

Please tell us, I’m very integrating.

It was broken because if you were able to in any way get 16s of ANY boon in the game on you applied by yourself OR ALLIES, you could permanently keep those boons up on the Ranger. That is not intended no matter how much you wish it to be so.

An ele can do the same but it’s not broken?

I don’t wish or want but you can’t say it was broken when ele could and can do the same even better.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

If that’s your argument, then what’s your response to the fact that other professions can keep 25 might stacks indefinitely, and more easily than ranger can? It wouldn’t be a problem if ranger were actually competitive in PvP without might stacking, but this isn’t really the case.

My argument would be that it is not intended for the Ranger to easily get 25 stacks of might like other classes. Seriously people need to stop comparing the Ranger to other classes and saying stuff like its not fair that “x class can do y and Rangers can’t”. If you want every class to be the same so badly then try a different game. Furthermore, if this is what you want so badly then I don’t see the problem with the current meta and everyone just rolling d/d eles since they’re all the same.

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.

Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Curious: I’m still at work. Have you guys played with WHaO yet since the change? I’ll be trotting out my Ranger tonight, but I wondered if you’re basing your thoughts on statistics — which I can respect — or on playtime — which also is valuable.

I played for about an hour or two tonight. It isn’t worth it. Because it takes 1sec to trigger “WHaO” you lose an additional second on every buff. To make it worse you need to time everything properly in addition to micro managing the pet to ensure it stays alive for the buff to be applied.

In comparison to “TU”, where you can remove 2 conditions, add fury, and have a higher heal count (with wilderness knowledge trait) simply put, WHaO is a bad choice in pvp.

Mcrocha.3891:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

If that’s your argument, then what’s your response to the fact that other professions can keep 25 might stacks indefinitely, and more easily than ranger can? It wouldn’t be a problem if ranger were actually competitive in PvP without might stacking, but this isn’t really the case.

My argument would be that it is not intended for the Ranger to easily get 25 stacks of might like other classes. Seriously people need to stop comparing the Ranger to other classes and saying stuff like its not fair that “x class can do y and Rangers can’t”. If you want every class to be the same so badly then try a different game. Furthermore, if this is what you want so badly then I don’t see the problem with the current meta and everyone just rolling d/d eles since they’re all the same.

So the real question is why do you believe ranger should be inferior than other classes, that they shouldn’t be able to stack high mights and long protections, even when facing serious trade-offs, while other classes can easily do this FOR THE WHOLE PARTY and be ok with it?

Do you honestly test the build thoroughly before, and swear the God you think WHaO is so brokenly OP in PVP that you win EVERY SINGLE GAME in the Ranked Arena because it’s so strong?

Or are you just theory-crafting or watch some Youtube video about how people stack quickness in PVE?

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.

Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.

No, you won’t. After using WHaO the first time, you’ll have 25 stacks for a couple of seconds, tops. Then the might will expire, long before WHaO comes off of cooldown again. You seem to be misunderstanding the mechanics here.

You need only look at the Elementalist changes to see that they’re trying to prune the current Might-stacking ecology back a bit from “25 or you’ve failed”. I’d expect see more Might generating/sharing traits tuned down in the near future. Ranger’s not being singled out on this front.

Mcrocha.3891:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

If that’s your argument, then what’s your response to the fact that other professions can keep 25 might stacks indefinitely, and more easily than ranger can? It wouldn’t be a problem if ranger were actually competitive in PvP without might stacking, but this isn’t really the case.

My argument would be that it is not intended for the Ranger to easily get 25 stacks of might like other classes. Seriously people need to stop comparing the Ranger to other classes and saying stuff like its not fair that “x class can do y and Rangers can’t”. If you want every class to be the same so badly then try a different game. Furthermore, if this is what you want so badly then I don’t see the problem with the current meta and everyone just rolling d/d eles since they’re all the same.

Next change should be rangers will no longer get dodge rolls so we can be different than other classes right? I mean we are all machine gun wielding bearbows that shoot people from 50,000 range anyway so what do we need to dodge for. Hooray for diversity that keeps us weaker than every other class!

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.

Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.

No, you won’t. After using WHaO the first time, you’ll have 25 stacks for a couple of seconds, tops. Then the might will expire, long before WHaO comes off of cooldown again. You seem to be misunderstanding the mechanics here.

If you get 13 stacks of might for 16+seconds and use WHaO you will have 25 stacks of might for 16s with half of the stacks expiring shortly before the other stacks because they were transferred after WHaO was cast. Therefore, if you keep reapplying the 13 stacks of 16s of might before you need to cast WHaO you can get the perma stacks. I understand how intensity stacking works.

Mcrocha.3891:

My argument would be that it is not intended for the Ranger to easily get 25 stacks of might like other classes. Seriously people need to stop comparing the Ranger to other classes and saying stuff like its not fair that “x class can do y and Rangers can’t”. If you want every class to be the same so badly then try a different game. Furthermore, if this is what you want so badly then I don’t see the problem with the current meta and everyone just rolling d/d eles since they’re all the same.

So it is intended that Ranger can’t get might stacks easily and also have significantly lesser damage modifiers than other classes.

My ele autos already hit for 40-60% more damage. I think I do not need to go into details what kind of boons I can stack up by myself.

What kind of balancing is this?

niconori.7235:

Mcrocha.3891:

My argument would be that it is not intended for the Ranger to easily get 25 stacks of might like other classes. Seriously people need to stop comparing the Ranger to other classes and saying stuff like its not fair that “x class can do y and Rangers can’t”. If you want every class to be the same so badly then try a different game. Furthermore, if this is what you want so badly then I don’t see the problem with the current meta and everyone just rolling d/d eles since they’re all the same.

So it is intended that Ranger can’t get might stacks easily and also have significantly lesser damage modifiers than other classes.

My ele autos already hit for 40-60% more damage. I think I do not need to go into details what kind of boons I can stack up by myself.

What kind of balancing is this?

We are balanced with the pet in mind. The pet happens to be bad in most cases. It misses a lot of the time in pvp, dies fast in pve, and is very unresponsive in general.

Why is it “not intended” for rangers to have might stacking? Saying “just because” is not good enough. There needs to be a concrete reason why they took that feature away when it was something helpful to the ranger and not overpowered. They could have kept it intact after the nerf. Who knows, maybe it’s because they intend to add might stacking elsewhere. Maybe it’s because they don’t intend to might stack but they are giving us something else equivalent. But there should be a reason.

Still waiting on Roy to come give his reasoning for limiting WHaO to 3 might stacks & destroying the duration of the other boons.

Mcrocha.3891:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.

Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.

No, you won’t. After using WHaO the first time, you’ll have 25 stacks for a couple of seconds, tops. Then the might will expire, long before WHaO comes off of cooldown again. You seem to be misunderstanding the mechanics here.

If you get 13 stacks of might for 16+seconds and use WHaO you will have 25 stacks of might for 16s with half of the stacks expiring shortly before the other stacks because they were transferred after WHaO was cast. Therefore, if you keep reapplying the 13 stacks of 16s of might before you need to cast WHaO you can get the perma stacks. I understand how intensity stacking works.

No, because next time around they would no longer have 16 seconds left, they would be expiring.

13 stacks —> WHaO (25, ~16s left) --————-> (25, 2s left) WHaO —-—-> (25, 1s left)

You’re assuming that it would reset the duration back to 16s on the second use of WHaO. It would not.

oshilator.4681:

Still waiting on Roy to come give his reasoning for limiting WHaO to 3 might stacks & destroying the duration of the other boons.

Waiting for GW2 detailed balance reasoning…

Good luck.

Kitty.1502:

Eval the biggest issue with Rangers is that we are balanced around the pet. Our pet dies often really easily in pve or in pvp they don’t hit often enough. Pay attention to your pet when you pvp you will notice that they miss over half the time if not closer to 70% of the time against anyone who doesn’t stand still.

While I totally agree with you on this point, I don’t believe its within anets or the engines capacity to do much better than currently have. If they could I think that they would have already fixed many of our pet issues but have not. I would rather turn my attention to other areas that could actually be improved on.

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.

Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.

And where are you pulling these supposed 13 stacks of might with at least 18 second durations from? And keep in mind their cooldowns need to be under the cooldown time of WHaO to be maintained permanently.

Let’s have a run down of a Ranger’s might sources:

Jungle Stalker, Mighty Roar: 5 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 3 second cast time, 25 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Hits from Strength of the Pack: 1 stack of might per hit, 8 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Brutish Seals on Signet use: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time on Signet of the Wild, individual cooldown times of (80s, 60s, 60s, 30s). Not maintainable.

Under 50% health with Most Dangerous Game: 5 stacks of Might, 3 seconds duration, completely useless once you hit your heal button. Not maintainable.

Critical hit with Companion’s Might: 1 stack of might pet crit, 5 seconds base duration, unlisted ICD. Not maintainable.

Zephyr’s Speed on pet swap: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 20 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Even if you slot every single trait and skill that gives you might, a Ranger cannot get 13 stacks of might on themself and their pet with a duration that exceeds the cooldown of WHaO and whose individual skill or trait cooldowns are low enough to be used consistently on the WHaO cooldown.

It was never possible for a Ranger to maintain permanent might on themselves with WHaO.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Mcrocha.3891:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.

Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.

No, you won’t. After using WHaO the first time, you’ll have 25 stacks for a couple of seconds, tops. Then the might will expire, long before WHaO comes off of cooldown again. You seem to be misunderstanding the mechanics here.

If you get 13 stacks of might for 16+seconds and use WHaO you will have 25 stacks of might for 16s with half of the stacks expiring shortly before the other stacks because they were transferred after WHaO was cast. Therefore, if you keep reapplying the 13 stacks of 16s of might before you need to cast WHaO you can get the perma stacks. I understand how intensity stacking works.

No, because next time around they would no longer have 16 seconds left, they would be expiring.

13 stacks —> WHaO (25, ~16s left) --————-> (25, 2s left) WHaO —-—-> (25, 1s left)

You’re assuming that it would reset the duration back to 16s on the second use of WHaO. It would not.

I am not assuming that. You don’t understand what I am arguing.

Yes the initial round of stacked might expires I know, but if you reapply the original might stacks it will be perma.

For instance(w/ decent boon duration say 20%):
Say you get 6 stacks might applied ~18 seconds → WHaO is used → 12 stacks ~18s. With about ~2s left the first 6 stacks will expire because they were already ticking down before boon transfer. However if you get another unique 6 stacks of might before the first ones expire and WHaO then you will be able to maintain the 12 stacks with the stack jumping up to 24 stacks momentarily before dropping to 18 and then 12.

I know no developers will bother reading this bit of feedback in the dark corner of a merged thread, but I have to at least try.

Rangers players, myself included, were pretty pumped when we heard at Twitchcon that a number of changes were coming to our beloved profession to “bring it more in line” with the others.

Tuesday’s balance patch was awesome for rangers, opening up some new builds that barely saw any play since the specialization update. We finally had a reason to keep our pet alive, not switching it as soon as we could and could take the risk to forego the healing part of our healing skill to use it for its utility instead.

All of these awesome feelings were crushed with today’s hotfix.

Let’s recap the last two days worth of rangers patch notes to see how “in line” the profession now is:

• Windborne notes: fixed a bug
• Beastly warden: fixed a bug
• Most Dangerous game: buff, still useless compared to quickdraw damage wise. It’ll be even more laughable when Druid comes along, because we should never ever stay at less than 50% health for a seizable duration.
• Nature’s vengeance: buff, still far from being the equivalent of a good’ol warrior banner. Spirits still get killed too easily because their effect radius makes it so they must be positioned too close to fights. Might from the frost spirit can’t stack beyond 25 and other classes already provide group wide maxed might. Storm spirit’s vulnerability is unnecessary for the same reason.
• Quick draw: fixed a bug
• Clarion bond: QoL change
• Call of the wild: buff, most deserved as well, as if a single might stack ever was anything to sing songs about.
• Spirits and traps: uniformization among the skills of the same type
• Call lightning: fixed a bug
• “We heal as one”: Gives you 3s of a couple of boons and risible amount of might, if your pet is alive, within earshot (for the boons applied by the shout itself when traited) and has boons (which often doesn’t happen since pets aren’t prioritized in the boon application targets, yourself and the 4 party members being first).

To recap, except bug fixes and more uniform skill types, we gained a tiny bit of utility on one healing skill and…. that’s it.

Of course we’re still better off now than before, but the feeling of having our hopes crushed so drastically is the worst! We were almost meta for a day… Now it’s back to insta-kick in parties/being forever alone in my FotM scale 50 LFG…

This piece of feedback may come off as a bit harsh and rant-y, but the point is that as of now, nothing changed compared to pre-balance patch and ranger isn’t more in line with the other meta professions (I’ll leave necromancers make their own case).

You’ve got until HoT launch and the first PvP season to try out new things. Go wild! Completely rework shouts! Break spirits even more by adding something else to them! Test out a non movement-impairing sword auto-attack chain! Rangers won’t mind rework of their skillset, as long as it makes it useful and feels good which, for now, let’s be honest, doesn’t.

If I could humbly make a suggestion, consider reverting “We heal as one” like it was before (pure healing), retiring one of the existing shout and replacing it with a new one, with the functionality of the boon copy newly introduced, but almost as potent as it was on Tuesday. I’m confident you can figure out something to prevent the quickness abuse (make skills and traits that give quickness give it only to the ranger?), but let us keep our hard earned might!

P.S.: I’m honestly shocked the “hidden” functionality of “We heal as one” turned out to not be intended. I was running the shout and Resounding timbre when the patch hit and the very first side effect I noticed was: “Hey, the 10s regen and swiftness given to me and my pet is instantly copied over, turning it into a 20s duration, awesome! I could keep these up forever if I wanted to waste my healing skill constantly. That’s an interesting risk/reward scenario.”
If you’re to give us hope next time, be sure to consider every aspect of the changes. At least try them once?

P.S.S. Forgive the english, I figured this had more chance to be read than if I submitted it in French.

- A possibly ex-main ranger

I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.

Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.

Eval.2371:

Kitty.1502:

Eval the biggest issue with Rangers is that we are balanced around the pet. Our pet dies often really easily in pve or in pvp they don’t hit often enough. Pay attention to your pet when you pvp you will notice that they miss over half the time if not closer to 70% of the time against anyone who doesn’t stand still.

While I totally agree with you on this point, I don’t believe its within anets or the engines capacity to do much better than currently have. If they could I think they they would have already fixed many of our pet issues but have not. I would rather turn my attention to other areas that could actually be improved on.

I won’t argue on this point, but if it is true, than the pet should be removed completely and the class re-balanced.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.

Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.

NM gives 20% boon duration. And permanent means it can just be reapplied before the cd comes back up.

honestly, it doesn’t matter how many might stacks we get. the profession still hits like a wet noodle, with the exception of LB/GS power builds, which were just mediocre before the patch and remain so. yesterday i was getting some above average results (god forbid) with 25 stacks on my LB but i needed quickness to make it work. that didnt last long. we literally have no other options. the rest of the weapons were horribly designed since day one, and have pathetic damage modifiers on them.

No one is going to waste an entire heal to transfer boons for 2-3 seconds this change is a complete joke along with this “Balance Patch” Rangers got which did not address any of the core issues of the class.

Now at best if you use WHAO for its intended purpose which is to heal you are gaining at best 1-2 seconds of any useful boons and a few stacks of might.

Why not just remove the change to WHAO entirely because no one is going to bother using it now anyways.

Mcrocha.3891:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.

Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.

NM gives 20% boon duration. And permanent means it can just be reapplied before the cd comes back up.

If you’re running NM you’re running a crap build for PVE, which is why I said I don’t run boon duration. You’re not going to have the stats for 25 might stacks to matter anyway if you’re running NM ‘cause likely you’re not running dps gear…. because why you run dps gear and not dps boosting trait lines? That’d be a waste. So, yeah, no boon duration.

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.

Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.

And where are you pulling these supposed 13 stacks of might with at least 18 second durations from? And keep in mind their cooldowns need to be under the cooldown time of WHaO to be maintained permanently.

Let’s have a run down of a Ranger’s might sources:

Jungle Stalker, Mighty Roar: 5 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 3 second cast time, 25 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Hits from Strength of the Pack: 1 stack of might per hit, 8 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Brutish Seals on Signet use: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time on Signet of the Wild, individual cooldown times of (80s, 60s, 60s, 30s). Not maintainable.

Under 50% health with Most Dangerous Game: 5 stacks of Might, 3 seconds duration, completely useless once you hit your heal button. Not maintainable.

Critical hit with Companion’s Might: 1 stack of might pet crit, 5 seconds base duration, unlisted ICD. Not maintainable.

Zephyr’s Speed on pet swap: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 20 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Even if you slot every single trait and skill that gives you might, a Ranger cannot get 13 stacks of might on themself and their pet with a duration that exceeds the cooldown of WHaO and whose individual skill or trait cooldowns are low enough to be used consistently on the WHaO cooldown.

It was never possible for a Ranger to maintain permanent might on themselves with WHaO.

nature Magic and Beast mastery makes Jungle Stalker 5 stax of might for 22 seconds on a 20s cooldown. Windborne Notes + Runes of Strength makes Call of the Wild give 3 stax for 24s on a 24s cooldown. I don’t want to comment on your argument, but Rangers ARE capable of perma might without WHaO, at a respectable level.

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.

Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.

And where are you pulling these supposed 13 stacks of might with at least 18 second durations from? And keep in mind their cooldowns need to be under the cooldown time of WHaO to be maintained permanently.

Let’s have a run down of a Ranger’s might sources:

Jungle Stalker, Mighty Roar: 5 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 3 second cast time, 25 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Hits from Strength of the Pack: 1 stack of might per hit, 8 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Brutish Seals on Signet use: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time on Signet of the Wild, individual cooldown times of (80s, 60s, 60s, 30s). Not maintainable.

Under 50% health with Most Dangerous Game: 5 stacks of Might, 3 seconds duration, completely useless once you hit your heal button. Not maintainable.

Critical hit with Companion’s Might: 1 stack of might pet crit, 5 seconds base duration, unlisted ICD. Not maintainable.

Zephyr’s Speed on pet swap: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 20 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Even if you slot every single trait and skill that gives you might, a Ranger cannot get 13 stacks of might on themself and their pet with a duration that exceeds the cooldown of WHaO and whose individual skill or trait cooldowns are low enough to be used consistently on the WHaO cooldown.

It was never possible for a Ranger to maintain permanent might on themselves with WHaO.

Maybe not 13, but 8 easily. Zephyrs Speed(16s with BM line) comboed with Clarion Bond is 6 stacks ~18s with NM line, sigil of battle weapon swap is 2 stacks. Second go around your Clarion Bond won’t be triggered bc ICD, but you could actually cast CotW. This is only including might that the Ranger could throw out. There’s also Mighty Roar from Jungle Stalker(might is perma with BM minors, but would only last one rotation I guess) and Might that teammates could apply. Very easily could maintain high stacks. Especially if say you were using Runes like Runes of Strength.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Mcrocha.3891:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I don’t run boon duration on my DPS ranger, Mcrocha. It was strictly used for spikes. I could not have permanent might stacks. Even in groups with a EA PS war and two eles, one being d/d.

Even in your scenerio, Mcrocha, that’s still not permanent unless you don’t mean lasts for ever.

NM gives 20% boon duration. And permanent means it can just be reapplied before the cd comes back up.

If you’re running NM you’re running a crap build for PVE, which is why I said I don’t run boon duration. You’re not going to have the stats for 25 might stacks to matter anyway if you’re running NM ‘cause likely you’re not running dps gear…. because why you run dps gear and not dps boosting trait lines? That’d be a waste. So, yeah, no boon duration.

The meta build would disagree with you.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_S/A_LB_Spotter

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Mcrocha.3891:

Tapioca.9062:

Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.

Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.

That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.

Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.

No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.

You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.

You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.

We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.

You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.

Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.

Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.

And where are you pulling these supposed 13 stacks of might with at least 18 second durations from? And keep in mind their cooldowns need to be under the cooldown time of WHaO to be maintained permanently.

Let’s have a run down of a Ranger’s might sources:

Jungle Stalker, Mighty Roar: 5 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 3 second cast time, 25 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Hits from Strength of the Pack: 1 stack of might per hit, 8 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Brutish Seals on Signet use: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time on Signet of the Wild, individual cooldown times of (80s, 60s, 60s, 30s). Not maintainable.

Under 50% health with Most Dangerous Game: 5 stacks of Might, 3 seconds duration, completely useless once you hit your heal button. Not maintainable.

Critical hit with Companion’s Might: 1 stack of might pet crit, 5 seconds base duration, unlisted ICD. Not maintainable.

Zephyr’s Speed on pet swap: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 20 second cooldown. Not maintainable.

Even if you slot every single trait and skill that gives you might, a Ranger cannot get 13 stacks of might on themself and their pet with a duration that exceeds the cooldown of WHaO and whose individual skill or trait cooldowns are low enough to be used consistently on the WHaO cooldown.

It was never possible for a Ranger to maintain permanent might on themselves with WHaO.

Maybe not 13, but 8 easily. Zephyrs Speed(16s with BM line) comboed with Clarion Bond is 6 stacks ~18s with NM line, sigil of battle weapon swap is 2 stacks. Second go around your Clarion Bond won’t be triggered bc ICD, but you could actually cast CotW. This is only including might that the Ranger could throw out. There’s also Mighty Roar from Jungle Stalker(might is perma with BM minors, but would only last one rotation I guess) and Might that teammates could apply. Very easily could maintain high stacks. Especially if say you were using Runes like Runes of Strength.

PSSST. That is 16 permanent stax of might.