I think the complainers would be happy if everyone was on the same level – Basic White gear. But they fail to realize that WvW is not SPvP. If they’re not happy with WvW, they should stick to the structured PvP part of the game, where everything is even.
But hark, there’s more:
Superior Runes can give an unfair advantage as well, since they add bonus stats to a player’s attributes. And since Superior Runes are so hard to come by in WvW… well, you know how the current argument goes.
The “complainers” appear to be the majority of the people who play WvWvW. Maybe you should go over to those forums and tell them exactly how their game mode is supposed to work and why their opinions mean nothing? Clearly, you’re the only person who’s opinion actually matters, right?
Actually, the complainers are the minority of the WvW player base. When you’re an active WvWer, like myself, you don’t see people having this argument in chat. What you’re seeing is just a few people upset that they can’t get Ascended gear.
Complainers are in the minority of EVERYTHING. Most people don’t speak up, regardless of their feelings on the matter. Do not mistake the silence of the silent majority with agreeing with the status quo.
And perhaps people aren’t complaining about it in chat because it clogs chat with things that aren’t, say, scouting reports or orders.
This, exactly.
I know how PvPers feel about having to do PvE to get BiS gear, whether they post about it or not. I know because I’ve been through this same issue before. Having BiS gear in WoW come from raids in vanilla was probably THE single most complained-about issue. Guess what happened? First expansion, they completely changed that. BiS PvP gear came from doing PvP. (I didn’t care for arena much myself, but the vast majority were thrilled.) And WoW went on to become the most successful American/Western MMO in history, and still is. That change had a lot to do with it. If you could get every single piece of ascended gear from doing nothing but PvP, and get it all in 1-2 months if you grind hardcore, the vast majority of the PvPers would be happy, and the few complaints left would be from outliers too few to matter.
So in a nutshell, that’s what needs to happen. They either need to remove the advantage from ascended gear, or make it all available via PvP for a reasonable amount of time and effort.
this would be nice if it is implemented. I do not care if they remove ascended to wvw or leave it as it is. but if there is a way you can obtain ascended gear throw wvw points or honor badges or laurels even. it would be nice for the people who only enjoy wvw and not the pve content of this game.
Since it’s admitted that the complainers are in the minority, why would Anet make major changes to the game to appease the small, vocal minority?
That’s a very good question. Why did they try to appease the vocal minority of people who wanted vertical progression by adding ascended at all?
Actually, Anet admitted that they underestimated the player base’s dedication to the game. Exotics were the final tier, until a majority of the players maxed out within months of the game’s release. So they added the next, and supposedly last tier, which is Ascended. So it wasn’t because of the vocal minority of the game that triggered it, it was a vast majority of active players.
I completely agree with the OP. I wish I could vote up your post multiple times.
Having multiple alts at lvl 80, I’m already having a hard time gearing them all in exotics (some of them have up to 4 or 5 complete sets of armor/trinkets/weapons) and I play them all in WvW.
The per-character WvW Rank is already putting me at a little disavantage (the stacking buff), and I know for sure that I will probably never have a fully ascended character…
I bought this game because of the advertised “GW1 logic” and I already feel a little betrayed when I see the price of a full exotic armor.
In my opinion WvW should have been tied up to sPvP from start, but now it is too late.
Since it’s admitted that the complainers are in the minority, why would Anet make major changes to the game to appease the small, vocal minority?
That’s a very good question. Why did they try to appease the vocal minority of people who wanted vertical progression by adding ascended at all?
Actually, Anet admitted that they underestimated the player base’s dedication to the game. Exotics were the final tier, until a majority of the players maxed out within months of the game’s release. So they added the next, and supposedly last tier, which is Ascended. So it wasn’t because of the vocal minority of the game that triggered it, it was a vast majority of active players.
Was that before or after they claimed they had always intended to add ascended?
Another thing I don’t get about the ascended grinders, is that ascended gear limits choice. It limits build flexibility, it limits experimentation and makes an already fairly shallow game somewhat worse. With exotics, you could have several sets (which are trivial to obtain) and swap as needed.
So now with ascended gear, rather than experimenting, having fun, and working on mastering a class, people have to grind out ascended in order to fully compete (because in our world a +1 advantage doesn’t equal 0). It just really puts a damper on the fun.
This may come as a surprise to but you can still do that. I have my go to weapons as ascended and I use exotic weapons when I swap my build around.
It’s extremely interesting how that still works and that ascended didn’t break anything as far as that goes.
Since it’s admitted that the complainers are in the minority, why would Anet make major changes to the game to appease the small, vocal minority?
That’s a very good question. Why did they try to appease the vocal minority of people who wanted vertical progression by adding ascended at all?
Actually, Anet admitted that they underestimated the player base’s dedication to the game. Exotics were the final tier, until a majority of the players maxed out within months of the game’s release. So they added the next, and supposedly last tier, which is Ascended. So it wasn’t because of the vocal minority of the game that triggered it, it was a vast majority of active players.
Was that before or after they claimed they had always intended to add ascended?
Colin mentioned it somewhere on the forums. I’d have to mine his posts to find the exact words.
Actually, Anet admitted that they underestimated the player base’s dedication to the game. Exotics were the final tier, until a majority of the players maxed out within months of the game’s release.
So they added the next, and supposedly last tier, which is Ascended. So it wasn’t because of the vocal minority of the game that triggered it, it was a vast majority of active players.
They assumed that since a “majority” of players had exotics that we wanted another full tier of gear? Oh wait, they said it was going to be added from the start but didn’t tell anyone and are implementing it horribly. A player’s actions now does not tell you what they would like to see happen in the future.
And seeing as you have access to anet’s metrics, please let me know the number of full and non-full exotic players in October. If you can’t, then you can’t say kitten about anything being a majority.
Actually, Anet admitted that they underestimated the player base’s dedication to the game. Exotics were the final tier, until a majority of the players maxed out within months of the game’s release.
So they added the next, and supposedly last tier, which is Ascended. So it wasn’t because of the vocal minority of the game that triggered it, it was a vast majority of active players.
They assumed that since a “majority” of players had exotics that we wanted another full tier of gear? Oh wait, they said it was going to be added from the start but didn’t tell anyone and are implementing it horribly. A player’s actions now does not tell you what they would like to see happen in the future.
And seeing as you have access to anet’s metrics, please let me know the number of full and non-full exotic players in October. If you can’t, then you can’t say kitten about anything being a majority.
And to add to this, players who were complaining about having done the endgame content already wanted more content not more vertical progression. That’s what players have always wanted. Vertical progression is far more of a stick than a carrot for most players.
Actually, Anet admitted that they underestimated the player base’s dedication to the game. Exotics were the final tier, until a majority of the players maxed out within months of the game’s release.
So they added the next, and supposedly last tier, which is Ascended. So it wasn’t because of the vocal minority of the game that triggered it, it was a vast majority of active players.
They assumed that since a “majority” of players had exotics that we wanted another full tier of gear? Oh wait, they said it was going to be added from the start but didn’t tell anyone and are implementing it horribly. A player’s actions now does not tell you what they would like to see happen in the future.
And seeing as you have access to anet’s metrics, please let me know the number of full and non-full exotic players in October. If you can’t, then you can’t say kitten about anything being a majority.
Considering that Exotics are pretty common and cheap, that’s enough evidence to back Anet’s position on the matter.
Actually, Anet admitted that they underestimated the player base’s dedication to the game. Exotics were the final tier, until a majority of the players maxed out within months of the game’s release.
So they added the next, and supposedly last tier, which is Ascended. So it wasn’t because of the vocal minority of the game that triggered it, it was a vast majority of active players.
They assumed that since a “majority” of players had exotics that we wanted another full tier of gear? Oh wait, they said it was going to be added from the start but didn’t tell anyone and are implementing it horribly. A player’s actions now does not tell you what they would like to see happen in the future.
And seeing as you have access to anet’s metrics, please let me know the number of full and non-full exotic players in October. If you can’t, then you can’t say kitten about anything being a majority.
Considering that Exotics are pretty common and cheap, that’s enough evidence to back Anet’s position on the matter.
And considering their track record of never once adding any new, stronger gear in gw1 I don’t see why they’d think everyone getting max gear quickly was a problem.
Unless of course they thought they needed to add ascended to keep the locusts here.
Which it didn’t anyway.
Actually, Anet admitted that they underestimated the player base’s dedication to the game. Exotics were the final tier, until a majority of the players maxed out within months of the game’s release.
So they added the next, and supposedly last tier, which is Ascended. So it wasn’t because of the vocal minority of the game that triggered it, it was a vast majority of active players.
They assumed that since a “majority” of players had exotics that we wanted another full tier of gear? Oh wait, they said it was going to be added from the start but didn’t tell anyone and are implementing it horribly. A player’s actions now does not tell you what they would like to see happen in the future.
And seeing as you have access to anet’s metrics, please let me know the number of full and non-full exotic players in October. If you can’t, then you can’t say kitten about anything being a majority.
Considering that Exotics are pretty common and cheap, that’s enough evidence to back Anet’s position on the matter.
And considering their track record of never once adding any new, stronger gear in gw1 I don’t see why they’d think everyone getting max gear quickly was a problem.
Unless of course they thought they needed to add ascended to keep the locusts here.
Which it didn’t anyway.
This, exactly. Putting in vertical progression to keep the people happy who demand it is always a losing battle. You can’t possibly keep the progression going fast enough to keep them busy, and they’ll just stick around another month or two, until they’ve burned through the new stuff. Even WoW couldn’t keep them around.
Why do people keep drawing comparisons to GW1? I’m pretty sure Anet never said that with GW2 they were setting out to make GW1 only in an open world.
So I really don’t get why people keep saying stuff like “but in gw1 it was this specific way”. Doesn’t make sense to me. If you want GW1 go play that game.
Which is why there’s also bi-monthly updates with new content. Ascended/Legendary gear progression is only one aspect of the game. People gathering and crafting for them is a way to keep busy. So is WvWing or SPvPing. So is the Living Story.
But back on topic. WvW is open world PvP. There is no forced gear balance as in SPvP. So you can walk in with any type of gear your character has, and start playing. If you run around fully stacked with Ascended, you have no more chance to take Stone Mist, than your teammate wearing all Masterwork gear.
Why do people keep drawing comparisons to GW1? I’m pretty sure Anet never said that with GW2 they were setting out to make GW1 only in an open world.
So I really don’t get why people keep saying stuff like “but in gw1 it was this specific way”. Doesn’t make sense to me. If you want GW1 go play that game.
Because GW2 was heavily marketed as being “GW1 only better”. It’s not.
So your solution is to go play a game that has had zero content updates in 6 years? Actually, that’s probably not a bad solution, because despite having no new content in that timespan it STILL offers more fun than GW2. Five years of work, and compared to an 8-year-old game that has had no updates in 6 years, this one still loses. That’s just sad. I’d probably still be playing GW1 if my account hadn’t got hacked back in ’09.
But back on topic. WvW is open world PvP. There is no forced gear balance as in SPvP. So you can walk in with any type of gear your character has, and start playing. If you run around fully stacked with Ascended, you have no more chance to take Stone Mist, than your teammate wearing all Masterwork gear.
No one cares if it’s “open world” PvP or not. GW1 proved that having balanced gear makes PvP better, not worse, no matter what kind of PvP it is.
But back on topic. WvW is open world PvP. There is no forced gear balance as in SPvP. So you can walk in with any type of gear your character has, and start playing. If you run around fully stacked with Ascended, you have no more chance to take Stone Mist, than your teammate wearing all Masterwork gear.
No one cares if it’s “open world” PvP or not. GW1 proved that having balanced gear makes PvP better, not worse, no matter what kind of PvP it is.
Then you should consider playing SPvP. Open world PvP (as in WvW) is quite fun, even though it’ll never be truly balanced. That’s because you can’t control how many players from the other server will play at any given time. Even if you balance the gear in WvW, that balance gets flushed down the toilet as soon as you notice you’re outnumbered 2 to 1.
Open world PvP (as in WvW) is quite fun, even though it’ll never be truly balanced. That’s because you can’t control how many players from the other server will play at any given time. Even if you balance the gear in WvW, that balance gets flushed down the toilet as soon as you notice you’re outnumbered 2 to 1.
And it could be even more fun. We’ve already gone over this. It’s no more relevant now than it was five pages back. None of this is any kind of argument against removing ascended gear advantage from WvW.
The fact is that no matter how you look at it, the guy wearing ascended has a statistical advantage over the the guy that is wearing exotic. Math does not lie! Sure there are many variables when it comes to WvW battles and there are player skill levels to take into account but an increase in stats always has an effect on the outcome of the battle. It might not be easily measurable among all the other imbalances in WvW but it does have an effect. Cause the math does not lie. To those of you saying that you get tons of kills from playing with an up leveled toon, good for you. I have never been beaten by an up level, EVER!! If you are lvl 80 wearing yellows I will crush you unless you are a very very good player. Makes we wonder what kind of baddies you are playing against. However, I don’t think Ascended should be removed from WvW, I think it should have never been added to the game to begin with but that is another topic all together.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
For all the people that claim the damage difference is only 5% and refuses to show how they come up with that number… I have made a thread just for you:
The damage difference is 10.3% which is not minimal or even close to your 5% you often spout. Go ahead and look it over. Please tell me if you see something wrong. But as of right now, the damage difference is 10.3% and the above linked thread is the evidence for it.
The fact is that no matter how you look at it, the guy wearing ascended has a statistical advantage over the the guy that is wearing exotic. Math does not lie! Sure there are many variables when it comes to WvW battles and there are player skill levels to take into account but an increase in stats always has an effect on the outcome of the battle. It might not be easily measurable among all the other imbalances in WvW but it does have an effect. Cause the math does not lie. To those of you saying that you get tons of kills from playing with an up leveled toon, good for you. I have never been beaten by an up level, EVER!! If you are lvl 80 wearing yellows I will crush you unless you are a very very good player. Makes we wonder what kind of baddies you are playing against. However, I don’t think Ascended should be removed from WvW, I think it should have never been added to the game to begin with but that is another topic all together.
I tend to think that there’s a limit to how imbalanced anything can be before adding any more imbalance won’t make much of a difference. WvW already has WvW ranks, food, zerg sizes, presence of organised WvW-centtric guilds, availability of siege, etc etc to screw over balance, adding 5% stat differences won’t change much.
The fact is that no matter how you look at it, the guy wearing ascended has a statistical advantage over the the guy that is wearing exotic. Math does not lie! Sure there are many variables when it comes to WvW battles and there are player skill levels to take into account but an increase in stats always has an effect on the outcome of the battle. It might not be easily measurable among all the other imbalances in WvW but it does have an effect. Cause the math does not lie. To those of you saying that you get tons of kills from playing with an up leveled toon, good for you. I have never been beaten by an up level, EVER!! If you are lvl 80 wearing yellows I will crush you unless you are a very very good player. Makes we wonder what kind of baddies you are playing against. However, I don’t think Ascended should be removed from WvW, I think it should have never been added to the game to begin with but that is another topic all together.
I tend to think that there’s a limit to how imbalanced anything can be before adding any more imbalance won’t make much of a difference. WvW already has WvW ranks, food, zerg sizes, presence of organised WvW-centtric guilds, availability of siege, etc etc to screw over balance, adding 5% stat differences won’t change much.
This, right after a post detailing that the stat difference is 10.3%, not 5%. Epic fail.
Open world PvP (as in WvW) is quite fun, even though it’ll never be truly balanced. That’s because you can’t control how many players from the other server will play at any given time. Even if you balance the gear in WvW, that balance gets flushed down the toilet as soon as you notice you’re outnumbered 2 to 1.
And it could be even more fun. We’ve already gone over this. It’s no more relevant now than it was five pages back. None of this is any kind of argument against removing ascended gear advantage from WvW.
The point you’re missing is that there is no real advantage in WvW. As I stated above, you take all WvW gear and make them even across the board, and you still have no balance if you’re facing more opponents.
I truly think you belong in SPvP. It seems that you believe that you can do better if the other team has 5% to 10% less stats than you. But then you completely forget that the only thing that matters in WvW is the amount of players that rush you.
I’ll try to explain this in more simple terms (I’ll pray it’s simple enough): 50 players in nothing but Rare (Yellow) gear will crush your team of 25 in all Ascended gear.
The fact is that no matter how you look at it, the guy wearing ascended has a statistical advantage over the the guy that is wearing exotic. Math does not lie! Sure there are many variables when it comes to WvW battles and there are player skill levels to take into account but an increase in stats always has an effect on the outcome of the battle. It might not be easily measurable among all the other imbalances in WvW but it does have an effect. Cause the math does not lie. To those of you saying that you get tons of kills from playing with an up leveled toon, good for you. I have never been beaten by an up level, EVER!! If you are lvl 80 wearing yellows I will crush you unless you are a very very good player. Makes we wonder what kind of baddies you are playing against. However, I don’t think Ascended should be removed from WvW, I think it should have never been added to the game to begin with but that is another topic all together.
I tend to think that there’s a limit to how imbalanced anything can be before adding any more imbalance won’t make much of a difference. WvW already has WvW ranks, food, zerg sizes, presence of organised WvW-centtric guilds, availability of siege, etc etc to screw over balance, adding 5% stat differences won’t change much.
This, right after a post detailing that the stat difference is 10.3%, not 5%. Epic fail.
Mind my use of the word adding. Trinklets were in game before all this fuss started.
Mind my use of the word adding. Trinklets were in game before all this fuss started.
No, that’s a cop-out. This thread is about ALL ascended gear, not just some arbitrary pieces that got added after some arbitrary point in time. You can’t now try to claim that your “5%” figure is only for “everything but trinkets”. Go peddle that BS somewhere else. Again, epic fail.
Mind my use of the word adding. Trinklets were in game before all this fuss started.
No, that’s a cop-out. This thread is about ALL ascended gear, not just some arbitrary pieces that got added after some arbitrary point in time. You can’t now try to claim that your “5%” figure is only for “everything but trinkets”. Go peddle that BS somewhere else. Again, epic fail.
Now without commenting on how aggressive you seem to be, I would like to point out that by your logic, we need to strip out WvW ranks in in its entirety. Because thats a bigger grind than anything else apart from Legendaries in the game and offers very significant benefits.
I won’t say that we shouldn’t, but if we did that, would people be happy about it?
Mind my use of the word adding. Trinklets were in game before all this fuss started.
No, that’s a cop-out. This thread is about ALL ascended gear, not just some arbitrary pieces that got added after some arbitrary point in time. You can’t now try to claim that your “5%” figure is only for “everything but trinkets”. Go peddle that BS somewhere else. Again, epic fail.
Now without commenting on how aggressive you seem to be, I would like to point out that by your logic, we need to strip out WvW ranks in in its entirety. Because thats a bigger grind than anything else apart from Legendaries in the game and offers very significant benefits.
I won’t say that we shouldn’t, but if we did that, would people be happy about it?
Yes, after how many pages of people posting the same pointless irrelevant arguments I finally got aggressive. Sue me.
And yes, I personally would be perfectly fine with stripping out WvW ranks. Would other people be happy about it? Some would, some wouldn’t. I have no idea where the divide would be. I’m not arguing for it. But that’s also irrelevant to this discussion. The main reason WvW players have an issue with ascended gear in the game mode is because some of the pieces can only be obtained from specific PvE content. Your ranks question is a different issue altogether, best suited for another thread.
Mind my use of the word adding. Trinklets were in game before all this fuss started.
No, that’s a cop-out. This thread is about ALL ascended gear, not just some arbitrary pieces that got added after some arbitrary point in time. You can’t now try to claim that your “5%” figure is only for “everything but trinkets”. Go peddle that BS somewhere else. Again, epic fail.
Now without commenting on how aggressive you seem to be, I would like to point out that by your logic, we need to strip out WvW ranks in in its entirety. Because thats a bigger grind than anything else apart from Legendaries in the game and offers very significant benefits.
I won’t say that we shouldn’t, but if we did that, would people be happy about it?
Yes, after how many pages of people posting the same pointless irrelevant arguments I finally got aggressive. Sue me.
And yes, I personally would be perfectly fine with stripping out WvW ranks. Would other people be happy about it? Some would, some wouldn’t. I have no idea where the divide would be. I’m not arguing for it. But that’s also irrelevant to this discussion. The main reason WvW players have an issue with ascended gear in the game mode is because some of the pieces can only be obtained from specific PvE content. Your ranks question is a different issue altogether, best suited for another thread.
The design was that you can also acquire Ascended items in WvW. There’s WvW dailies for laurels for trinklets and you even get a discount by using BoHs, you can get ascended materials from doing stuff in WvW, and there’s resource nodes lying around every WvW map. You also get karma for doing things in WvW.
Now before you proceed point out that you can acquire all that faster in PvE, yes. The devs are aware of it, they’re working on it.
Yes, after how many pages of people posting the same pointless irrelevant arguments I finally got aggressive. Sue me.
And yes, I personally would be perfectly fine with stripping out WvW ranks. Would other people be happy about it? Some would, some wouldn’t. I have no idea where the divide would be. I’m not arguing for it. But that’s also irrelevant to this discussion. The main reason WvW players have an issue with ascended gear in the game mode is because some of the pieces can only be obtained from specific PvE content. Your ranks question is a different issue altogether, best suited for another thread.
Since their issue is with certain pieces being in PvE, then the problem isn’t ascended but the players that don’t want to do PvE to get that stuff.
That is entirely your problem if you do not wish to do the content that has the stuff that you would like.
There is no reason to penalize me for doing the content to get the gear just because you people don’t want to do PvE.
I speak for my self and no one else. Only fools believe they speak for a majority.
Yes, after how many pages of people posting the same pointless irrelevant arguments I finally got aggressive. Sue me.
And yes, I personally would be perfectly fine with stripping out WvW ranks. Would other people be happy about it? Some would, some wouldn’t. I have no idea where the divide would be. I’m not arguing for it. But that’s also irrelevant to this discussion. The main reason WvW players have an issue with ascended gear in the game mode is because some of the pieces can only be obtained from specific PvE content. Your ranks question is a different issue altogether, best suited for another thread.
Since their issue is with certain pieces being in PvE, then the problem isn’t ascended but the players that don’t want to do PvE to get that stuff.
That is entirely your problem if you do not wish to do the content that has the stuff that you would like.
There is no reason to penalize me for doing the content to get the gear just because you people don’t want to do PvE.
The thing is that from the beginning Anet has been saying that you don’t need to do things that you don’t enjoy to get all the good stuff. Play the game how you want and you will be able to get the same things as everyone else. The way ascended is implemented at the moment contradicts all of that and it wasn’t needed to begin with. Now we are stuck with something we didn’t want and that n one needed.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
Yes, after how many pages of people posting the same pointless irrelevant arguments I finally got aggressive. Sue me.
And yes, I personally would be perfectly fine with stripping out WvW ranks. Would other people be happy about it? Some would, some wouldn’t. I have no idea where the divide would be. I’m not arguing for it. But that’s also irrelevant to this discussion. The main reason WvW players have an issue with ascended gear in the game mode is because some of the pieces can only be obtained from specific PvE content. Your ranks question is a different issue altogether, best suited for another thread.
Since their issue is with certain pieces being in PvE, then the problem isn’t ascended but the players that don’t want to do PvE to get that stuff.
That is entirely your problem if you do not wish to do the content that has the stuff that you would like.
There is no reason to penalize me for doing the content to get the gear just because you people don’t want to do PvE.
The thing is that from the beginning Anet has been saying that you don’t need to do things that you don’t enjoy to get all the good stuff. Play the game how you want and you will be able to get the same things as everyone else. The way ascended is implemented at the moment contradicts all of that and it wasn’t needed to begin with. Now we are stuck with it.
Yes, after how many pages of people posting the same pointless irrelevant arguments I finally got aggressive. Sue me.
And yes, I personally would be perfectly fine with stripping out WvW ranks. Would other people be happy about it? Some would, some wouldn’t. I have no idea where the divide would be. I’m not arguing for it. But that’s also irrelevant to this discussion. The main reason WvW players have an issue with ascended gear in the game mode is because some of the pieces can only be obtained from specific PvE content. Your ranks question is a different issue altogether, best suited for another thread.
Since their issue is with certain pieces being in PvE, then the problem isn’t ascended but the players that don’t want to do PvE to get that stuff.
That is entirely your problem if you do not wish to do the content that has the stuff that you would like.
There is no reason to penalize me for doing the content to get the gear just because you people don’t want to do PvE.
The thing is that from the beginning Anet has been saying that you don’t need to do things that you don’t enjoy to get all the good stuff. Play the game how you want and you will be able to get the same things as everyone else. The way ascended is implemented at the moment contradicts all of that and it wasn’t needed to begin with. Now we are stuck with it.
Read my previous post.
At the rate at which Anet has been fixing things in the past, I won’t hold my breath. I’m sure it’s at the top of their priority list. (sarcasm)
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
Yes, after how many pages of people posting the same pointless irrelevant arguments I finally got aggressive. Sue me.
And yes, I personally would be perfectly fine with stripping out WvW ranks. Would other people be happy about it? Some would, some wouldn’t. I have no idea where the divide would be. I’m not arguing for it. But that’s also irrelevant to this discussion. The main reason WvW players have an issue with ascended gear in the game mode is because some of the pieces can only be obtained from specific PvE content. Your ranks question is a different issue altogether, best suited for another thread.
Since their issue is with certain pieces being in PvE, then the problem isn’t ascended but the players that don’t want to do PvE to get that stuff.
That is entirely your problem if you do not wish to do the content that has the stuff that you would like.
There is no reason to penalize me for doing the content to get the gear just because you people don’t want to do PvE.
The thing is that from the beginning Anet has been saying that you don’t need to do things that you don’t enjoy to get all the good stuff. Play the game how you want and you will be able to get the same things as everyone else. The way ascended is implemented at the moment contradicts all of that and it wasn’t needed to begin with. Now we are stuck with something we didn’t want and that n one needed.
If they want to add in ways to get ascended other than the PvE you don’t like, I don’t mind that. However, not liking to do some PvE for ascended gear is not a good reason to remove ascended from WvW.
I would not hold my breath though. It has been stated that they would like you to do other stuff than just one aspect of the game so you may have to do some PvE to get some ascended gear because that is what they want.
Things change in how things are done and a decision was made to get players out of WvW into PvE to get some of the shinies and making you play aspects of the game that you may not enjoy. Only PvE required for ascended is fractals and typically you can get your back before you even have to do fractal level 10. Rest can be aquired through dailies and crafting. Yes there is some time gating but what we have implemented isn’t bad, really mild compared to other time gating systems.
I speak for my self and no one else. Only fools believe they speak for a majority.
Yes, after how many pages of people posting the same pointless irrelevant arguments I finally got aggressive. Sue me.
And yes, I personally would be perfectly fine with stripping out WvW ranks. Would other people be happy about it? Some would, some wouldn’t. I have no idea where the divide would be. I’m not arguing for it. But that’s also irrelevant to this discussion. The main reason WvW players have an issue with ascended gear in the game mode is because some of the pieces can only be obtained from specific PvE content. Your ranks question is a different issue altogether, best suited for another thread.
Since their issue is with certain pieces being in PvE, then the problem isn’t ascended but the players that don’t want to do PvE to get that stuff.
That is entirely your problem if you do not wish to do the content that has the stuff that you would like.
There is no reason to penalize me for doing the content to get the gear just because you people don’t want to do PvE.
The thing is that from the beginning Anet has been saying that you don’t need to do things that you don’t enjoy to get all the good stuff. Play the game how you want and you will be able to get the same things as everyone else. The way ascended is implemented at the moment contradicts all of that and it wasn’t needed to begin with. Now we are stuck with something we didn’t want and that n one needed.
If they want to add in ways to get ascended other than the PvE you don’t like, I don’t mind that. However, not liking to do some PvE for ascended gear is not a good reason to remove ascended from WvW.
I agree with you on that, everything in PvE can be used for WvW except for some cheesy cheating consumables. As I said before, Ascended should have never existed to begin with or never have had better stats than exotics and only have been a few infusion slots for those wanting to do high level Fractals.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
The point you’re missing is that there is no real advantage in WvW.
No, you’re ignoring the fact that there is. You have no point.
You still seem to not understand WvW. If you played it, you’d understand where your argument fails. Basically, your argument is to make WvW like SPvP. The problem here is that SPvP already exists. And since it already exists, that nullifies your argument instantly.
So back to the topic. Ascended gear has better stats than Exotic gear, but there’s no advantage to the player who wears Ascended gear. The only numbers that matter are the amount of opponents you face on the battlefield.
The point you’re missing is that there is no real advantage in WvW.
No, you’re ignoring the fact that there is. You have no point.
So back to the topic. Ascended gear has better stats than Exotic gear, but there’s no advantage to the player who wears Ascended gear. The only numbers that matter are the amount of opponents you face on the battlefield.
That has been factually proven false. Over. And over. And over. STOP LYING.
The point you’re missing is that there is no real advantage in WvW.
No, you’re ignoring the fact that there is. You have no point.
You still seem to not understand WvW. If you played it, you’d understand where your argument fails. Basically, your argument is to make WvW like SPvP. The problem here is that SPvP already exists. And since it already exists, that nullifies your argument instantly.
So back to the topic. Ascended gear has better stats than Exotic gear, but there’s no advantage to the player who wears Ascended gear. The only numbers that matter are the amount of opponents you face on the battlefield.
Actually it does. Here is an example. I am solo roaming and come across 2 mediocre players (mediocre to me, just like I might be mediocre to someone else) and all of us are wearing exotics. I beat them with close to no HP left on my bar (it has happened many times). Now, I am roaming and come across those same 2 players but now they have ascended and I don’t. I lose cause even though I am clearly more skilled than they are the extra 10% damage from both of them put them at a greater advantage. Not everyone zergs, not everyone runs with a group. I have 9k kills in WvW close to 15% of those are 1v1, 1v2.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
The point you’re missing is that there is no real advantage in WvW.
No, you’re ignoring the fact that there is. You have no point.
So back to the topic. Ascended gear has better stats than Exotic gear, but there’s no advantage to the player who wears Ascended gear. The only numbers that matter are the amount of opponents you face on the battlefield.
That has been factually proven false. Over. And over. And over. STOP LYING.
It’s been proven to be true every single day in WvW. When the other server outnumbers you greatly (more than double), gear is meaningless.
And when the difference in number is less (30 vs 20), then the true factor is skill level of the players, not gear.
The point you’re missing is that there is no real advantage in WvW.
No, you’re ignoring the fact that there is. You have no point.
So back to the topic. Ascended gear has better stats than Exotic gear, but there’s no advantage to the player who wears Ascended gear. The only numbers that matter are the amount of opponents you face on the battlefield.
That has been factually proven false. Over. And over. And over. STOP LYING.
On paper, sure. What is actually happening in game, not even close.
The point you’re missing is that there is no real advantage in WvW.
No, you’re ignoring the fact that there is. You have no point.
So back to the topic. Ascended gear has better stats than Exotic gear, but there’s no advantage to the player who wears Ascended gear. The only numbers that matter are the amount of opponents you face on the battlefield.
That has been factually proven false. Over. And over. And over. STOP LYING.
On paper, sure. What is actually happening in game, not even close.
You know what? I think I figured out where all these misunderstandings are coming from. When you’re in a lower ranked server, attributes might play more of a factor than skill or number, since WvW populations are lower on the bottom tiers. When you’re in high ranked battles (i.e. Tiers 1 or 2), player numbers play the biggest factor, since every day the Borderlands are queued.
So then it become a question of experience and opinion, rather than facts or maths.
The only numbers that matter are the amount of opponents you face on the battlefield.
In terms of the weekly matchup, this is true. This is NOT true for individual skirmishes. Even zerg vs zerg where the initial burst matters. Having ascended gives you higher burst on contact or more vit/toughness to survive the enemy burst.
Ascended gear has better stats than Exotic gear, but there’s no advantage to the player who wears Ascended gear.
This is just…uh…I don’t even know how someone can think this way. Higher stats is an advantage. How is it not? You may argue there are more important things that stats, but that does not negate the fact that higher stats is an advantage.
The point you’re missing is that there is no real advantage in WvW.
No, you’re ignoring the fact that there is. You have no point.
So back to the topic. Ascended gear has better stats than Exotic gear, but there’s no advantage to the player who wears Ascended gear. The only numbers that matter are the amount of opponents you face on the battlefield.
That has been factually proven false. Over. And over. And over. STOP LYING.
On paper, sure. What is actually happening in game, not even close.
You know what? I think I figured out where all these misunderstandings are coming from. When you’re in a lower ranked server, attributes might play more of a factor than skill or number, since WvW populations are lower on the bottom tiers. When you’re in high ranked battles (i.e. Tiers 1 or 2), player numbers play the biggest factor, since every day the Borderlands are queued.
So then it become a question of experience and opinion, rather than facts or maths.
That is exactly it. There are many more roamers and small parties on the lower tiers. The stat difference has a much greater effect in those cases. The ones complaining are not the ones running with the blob. Some nights on NSP the zerg has less than 15 people in it and I don’t see how running around with 50 other people spamming AoE and combo field requires any skill. Skirmishing is where you really learn to play you class.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
The point you’re missing is that there is no real advantage in WvW.
No, you’re ignoring the fact that there is. You have no point.
So back to the topic. Ascended gear has better stats than Exotic gear, but there’s no advantage to the player who wears Ascended gear. The only numbers that matter are the amount of opponents you face on the battlefield.
That has been factually proven false. Over. And over. And over. STOP LYING.
On paper, sure. What is actually happening in game, not even close.
You know what? I think I figured out where all these misunderstandings are coming from. When you’re in a lower ranked server, attributes might play more of a factor than skill or number, since WvW populations are lower on the bottom tiers. When you’re in high ranked battles (i.e. Tiers 1 or 2), player numbers play the biggest factor, since every day the Borderlands are queued.
So then it become a question of experience and opinion, rather than facts or maths.
That is exactly it. There are many more roamers and small parties on the lower tiers. The stat difference has a much greater effect in those cases. The ones complaining are not the ones running with the blob.
My argument all this time was based on the fact that when you have more players against you, all the stats in the world won’t save you from a stomping.
The problem would still be that the small difference in stats would apply only to 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 situations, like how you see in SPvP. WvW is meant to be more of a real battle, where you have groups vs groups. So in my opinion, you can’t base the “remove Ascended from WvW” argument on only specific situations (i.e. roaming fights). You need to look at WvW as a whole. If you’re only arguing for that part of WvW, the other people who fight in groups will counter that argument, and we’re at a perpetual stalemate.
The only numbers that matter are the amount of opponents you face on the battlefield.
In terms of the weekly matchup, this is true. This is NOT true for individual skirmishes. Even zerg vs zerg where the initial burst matters. Having ascended gives you higher burst on contact or more vit/toughness to survive the enemy burst.
Ascended gear has better stats than Exotic gear, but there’s no advantage to the player who wears Ascended gear.
This is just…uh…I don’t even know how someone can think this way. Higher stats is an advantage. How is it not? You may argue there are more important things that stats, but that does not negate the fact that higher stats is an advantage.
At this point, I’m convinced those people are just pathological liars. Nothing else really explains it any more.
The point you’re missing is that there is no real advantage in WvW.
No, you’re ignoring the fact that there is. You have no point.
So back to the topic. Ascended gear has better stats than Exotic gear, but there’s no advantage to the player who wears Ascended gear. The only numbers that matter are the amount of opponents you face on the battlefield.
That has been factually proven false. Over. And over. And over. STOP LYING.
On paper, sure. What is actually happening in game, not even close.
You know what? I think I figured out where all these misunderstandings are coming from. When you’re in a lower ranked server, attributes might play more of a factor than skill or number, since WvW populations are lower on the bottom tiers. When you’re in high ranked battles (i.e. Tiers 1 or 2), player numbers play the biggest factor, since every day the Borderlands are queued.
So then it become a question of experience and opinion, rather than facts or maths.
That is exactly it. There are many more roamers and small parties on the lower tiers. The stat difference has a much greater effect in those cases. The ones complaining are not the ones running with the blob.
My argument all this time was based on the fact that when you have more players against you, all the stats in the world won’t save you from a stomping.
The problem would still be that the small difference in stats would apply only to 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 situations, like how you see in SPvP. WvW is meant to be more of a real battle, where you have groups vs groups. So in my opinion, you can’t base the “remove Ascended from WvW” argument on only specific situations (i.e. roaming fights). You need to look at WvW as a whole. If your only arguing for that part of WvW, the other people who fight in groups will counter that argument, and we’re at a perpetual stalemate.
I never said it should be removed, I’m just saying that it really does make a difference for a lot of people. There have been many times when my party pushed off a group twice our size (only 1 or 2 up levels) by the skin of our teeth because we were more organized and better players. If they had ascended gear and we didn’t we would not have succeeded. If you take a look at WvW as a whole, the majority of the worlds are underpopulated cause the top 3 stole all the WvW guilds. Ascended affects more people than you think.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
I never said it should be removed, I’m just saying that it really does make a difference for a lot of people. There have been many times when my party pushed off a group twice our size (only 1 or 2 up levels) by the skin of our teeth because we were more organized and better players. If they had ascended gear and we didn’t we would not have succeeded. If you take a look at WvW as a whole, the majority of the worlds are underpopulated cause the top 3 stole all the WvW guilds. Ascended affects more people than you think.
At this point, it’s safe to say that we’re both right. Zerg vs Zerg fights take number of players over strength of gear. 1 vs 1 takes skill and gear in account.
Since we can continue to argue both our points, and both be correct, I say we call this a draw, and leave the game as it is.
You know what? I think I figured out where all these misunderstandings are coming from. When you’re in a lower ranked server, attributes might play more of a factor than skill or number, since WvW populations are lower on the bottom tiers. When you’re in high ranked battles (i.e. Tiers 1 or 2), player numbers play the biggest factor, since every day the Borderlands are queued.
So then it become a question of experience and opinion, rather than facts or maths.
That is exactly it. There are many more roamers and small parties on the lower tiers. The stat difference has a much greater effect in those cases. The ones complaining are not the ones running with the blob. Some nights on NSP the zerg has less than 15 people in it and I don’t see how running around with 50 other people spamming AoE and combo field requires any skill. Skirmishing is where you really learn to play you class.
I’m on SOR, I both run with the zerg and I roam. In both cases it helps. Striker’s post about how it helps is pretty much spot on in my experience.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
I never said it should be removed, I’m just saying that it really does make a difference for a lot of people. There have been many times when my party pushed off a group twice our size (only 1 or 2 up levels) by the skin of our teeth because we were more organized and better players. If they had ascended gear and we didn’t we would not have succeeded. If you take a look at WvW as a whole, the majority of the worlds are underpopulated cause the top 3 stole all the WvW guilds. Ascended affects more people than you think.
At this point, it’s safe to say that we’re both right. Zerg vs Zerg fights take number of players over strength of gear. 1 vs 1 takes skill and gear in account.
Since we can continue to argue both our points, and both be correct, I say we call this a draw, and leave the game as it is.
You really are unbelievable. And that’s all I’m going to say, because the response your post deserves should never show up on any forums, ever.