Remove Ascended from WvWvW
It’s not important they have an advantage, it’s important that the rewards that they earned through playing the game aren’t taken away because someone that wants to be on equal footing without playing the game feels it’s unfair.
I’d be fine with everyone being scaled up to ascended.
So your whole argument has been about splitting hairs this entire time. Why on earth didn’t you just post that at the very start, and save yourself the time and trouble of all your other pointless arguments?
I don’t think any changes should be made in WvW at all, and I dislike the reasons given to justify player’s rewards being taken away.
I argued against the justifications.
And, as I just pointed out, your arguments against the justifications did nothing to refute them. All those arguments you made were pointless. So again, why did you waste your time splitting hairs, instead of just posting the compromise you’d be OK with?
Because their shouldn’t be a compromise. There’s no problem to fix. Just because someone says there’s a problem doesn’t mean there is one.
Of course there should be a compromise. You always have to make compromises in big games to keep people happy. No two players want exactly the same things. Thus, once you have your target market, you make the compromises you need to in order to keep as many of those players as possible. Also, just because someone says there’s not a problem doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
If someone says there’s a problem, they need to provide evidence supporting the claim.
Numbers on paper isn’t evidence.
Lol how old are you? Numbers on paper is exactly what evidence is, cold hard mathematical facts. Your experience on the matter means nothing.
Except your numbers are theory not practice.
That’s not evidence, that’s a hypothesis. My case study (general gameplay) does not support your hypothesis.
What are you talking about? Plenty of people have done the math, it’s not a theory.
The numbers on gear don’t mean anything if you don’t hit your target. The math doesn’t
give us a picture of what actually happens, only of would could possibly happen under very specific circumstances.That is irrelevant.
Put 2 Warriors of exact same skill and spec vs each other, the one with 20% more damage will win.
Don’t give me what IFs, that’s mathematical proof.
See? Very specific circumstances.
“I didn’t buy into GW2 being the second coming of christ.
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
my point was, theory on paper works because you can control the variables, while theory in practice is difficult because there are many uncontrollable variables.
You can keep focusing on your men of straw and ignore the point of my argument if you prefer.
But that whole argument is a straw man. No one’s been arguing whether or not ascended gear = winning. The argument from the start has always been that it gives an unfair advantage. All those other variables don’t change that one bit. It’s an unfair advantage because it’s an advantage obtained before the competitive match starts, from doing activities that are completely irrelevant to the competitive match. It’s like me getting a few extra pieces in a chess tournament because I downed at least 10 hot dogs in a hot-dog eating contest held by the same people running the chess tournament. No one would play in that chess tournament.
WvWvW has always been that way, since before the game even launched, ascended gear didn’t change that all of the sudden.
It did. Before, eating one or two hot dogs (maybe 5-10, if you’re talking about exotic gear) was enough to get you all the extra pieces. Now, you need at least a few dozen. You’re not going to get them all down in one sitting, so you’re either going to have to put up without the advantage of the extra pieces, or you’re just going to have to wait a while before you play chess.
If you were talking about PvP you would be right. But we are talking about PvEvP, where time does make a difference.
And why, exactly, should the time someone spends in fractals or doing dailies have any more bearing on WvWvW than on sPvP? It shouldn’t. It’s still PvP. It’s still intended to be competitive.
And this right here is where your whole argument breaks down. You clearly do not understand the point of WvWvW. You simply disagree with how WvWvW was intentionally designed, what it was intentionally designed to simulate. It was literally designed to simulate an open world Faction Vs Faction Vs Faction game something LIKE Dark of Age of Camelot, where it is a meld of PvP and PvE, and that is the reason why PvE has an effect on this mode of play, because it is a meld of PvE and PvP.
If you were talking about PvP you would be right. But we are talking about PvEvP, where time does make a difference.
And why, exactly, should the time someone spends in fractals or doing dailies have any more bearing on WvWvW than on sPvP? It shouldn’t. It’s still PvP. It’s still intended to be competitive.
And this right here is where your whole argument breaks down. You clearly do not understand the point of WvWvW. You simply disagree with how WvWvW was intentionally designed, what it was intentionally designed to simulate. It was literally designed to simulate an open world Faction Vs Faction Vs Faction game something LIKE Dark of Age of Camelot, where it is a meld of PvP and PvE, and that is the reason why PvE has an effect on this mode of play, because it is a meld of PvE and PvP.
I do understand that. I simply believe that I, and many others, prefer to do that without the gear disparity. Perhaps you’re not understanding that many (if not the majority) of PvP (and WvWvW) players here come from the first GW. It had PvEvP as well. You could use your PvE gear in it, yes, but it didn’t matter because the only difference was cosmetics. If ArenaNet wanted to keep those players around, they needed to translate that to GW2. They didn’t, and I strongly believe that’s a big reason why WvWvW and GW2 in general are rapidly turning into a ghost town on many servers. I also believe that if they made changes as suggested by the OP here, they’d get some of those players back – as well as retain more current players.
Why do you think there was such a huge backlash against ascended gear that ArenaNet felt they had to run damage control? Players didn’t want it at all. Letting it ride in PvP (of ANY format) just makes it even worse.
(edited by DocHolliday.5921)
If you were talking about PvP you would be right. But we are talking about PvEvP, where time does make a difference.
And why, exactly, should the time someone spends in fractals or doing dailies have any more bearing on WvWvW than on sPvP? It shouldn’t. It’s still PvP. It’s still intended to be competitive.
And this right here is where your whole argument breaks down. You clearly do not understand the point of WvWvW. You simply disagree with how WvWvW was intentionally designed, what it was intentionally designed to simulate. It was literally designed to simulate an open world Faction Vs Faction Vs Faction game something LIKE Dark of Age of Camelot, where it is a meld of PvP and PvE, and that is the reason why PvE has an effect on this mode of play, because it is a meld of PvE and PvP.
I do understand that. I simply believe that I, and many others, prefer to do that without the gear disparity. Perhaps you’re not understanding that many (if not the majority) of PvP (and WvWvW) players here come from the first GW. It had PvEvP as well. You could use your PvE gear in it, yes, but it didn’t matter because the only difference was cosmetics. If ArenaNet wanted to keep those players around, they needed to translate that to GW2. They didn’t, and I strongly believe that’s a big reason why WvWvW and GW2 in general are rapidly turning into a ghost town on many servers. I also believe that if they made changes as suggested by the OP here, they’d get some of those players back – as well as retain more current players.
Ascended gear came out just a few months after release, and since then (1 year anniversary) Anet has stated that WvWvW currently has more players playing it each day then the highest total number of logins on any given day with Guild Wars 1. What you think is happening, and what Anet has stated did happen, don’t seem to match up.
If you were talking about PvP you would be right. But we are talking about PvEvP, where time does make a difference.
And why, exactly, should the time someone spends in fractals or doing dailies have any more bearing on WvWvW than on sPvP? It shouldn’t. It’s still PvP. It’s still intended to be competitive.
And this right here is where your whole argument breaks down. You clearly do not understand the point of WvWvW. You simply disagree with how WvWvW was intentionally designed, what it was intentionally designed to simulate. It was literally designed to simulate an open world Faction Vs Faction Vs Faction game something LIKE Dark of Age of Camelot, where it is a meld of PvP and PvE, and that is the reason why PvE has an effect on this mode of play, because it is a meld of PvE and PvP.
I do understand that. I simply believe that I, and many others, prefer to do that without the gear disparity. Perhaps you’re not understanding that many (if not the majority) of PvP (and WvWvW) players here come from the first GW. It had PvEvP as well. You could use your PvE gear in it, yes, but it didn’t matter because the only difference was cosmetics. If ArenaNet wanted to keep those players around, they needed to translate that to GW2. They didn’t, and I strongly believe that’s a big reason why WvWvW and GW2 in general are rapidly turning into a ghost town on many servers. I also believe that if they made changes as suggested by the OP here, they’d get some of those players back – as well as retain more current players.
Ascended gear came out just a few months after release, and since then (1 year anniversary) Anet has stated that WvWvW currently has more players playing it each day then the highest total number of logins on any given day with Guild Wars 1. What you think is happening, and what Anet has stated did happen, don’t seem to match up.
So I did a quick browse of the WvW forums, and you’re right about this one thing: it’s not the ghost town I thought it was. But the argument there is even more against ascended gear than the one in this thread. Most people want it gone; only a few players who don’t want to lose their gear advantage are arguing in favor of it. So for whatever reason, most players who DO participate in WvW feel it makes a difference and they don’t want it.
If you were talking about PvP you would be right. But we are talking about PvEvP, where time does make a difference.
And why, exactly, should the time someone spends in fractals or doing dailies have any more bearing on WvWvW than on sPvP? It shouldn’t. It’s still PvP. It’s still intended to be competitive.
And this right here is where your whole argument breaks down. You clearly do not understand the point of WvWvW. You simply disagree with how WvWvW was intentionally designed, what it was intentionally designed to simulate. It was literally designed to simulate an open world Faction Vs Faction Vs Faction game something LIKE Dark of Age of Camelot, where it is a meld of PvP and PvE, and that is the reason why PvE has an effect on this mode of play, because it is a meld of PvE and PvP.
I do understand that. I simply believe that I, and many others, prefer to do that without the gear disparity. Perhaps you’re not understanding that many (if not the majority) of PvP (and WvWvW) players here come from the first GW. It had PvEvP as well. You could use your PvE gear in it, yes, but it didn’t matter because the only difference was cosmetics. If ArenaNet wanted to keep those players around, they needed to translate that to GW2. They didn’t, and I strongly believe that’s a big reason why WvWvW and GW2 in general are rapidly turning into a ghost town on many servers. I also believe that if they made changes as suggested by the OP here, they’d get some of those players back – as well as retain more current players.
Ascended gear came out just a few months after release, and since then (1 year anniversary) Anet has stated that WvWvW currently has more players playing it each day then the highest total number of logins on any given day with Guild Wars 1. What you think is happening, and what Anet has stated did happen, don’t seem to match up.
So I did a quick browse of the WvW forums, and you’re right about this one thing: it’s not the ghost town I thought it was. But the argument there is even more against ascended gear than the one in this thread. Most people want it gone; only a few players who don’t want to lose their gear advantage are arguing in favor of it. So for whatever reason, most players who DO participate in WvW feel it makes a difference and they don’t want it.
you can only say “most players” on a particular forum thread wants…. we ourselves have no hard data of what the general player base for WvWvW wants.
Does DnT consider an 8% change in damage to be “small”?
Yes, but our area of expertise is balanced around 5 players.
The kind of answers you can read in this thread is… “mindblowing”, to say the least. Many people are obviously just trolling, but I like that many people who care about this game and making it better are still posting. Thank you.
But intelligent people understand how WvW works and how little this will matter, which is why this debate rages on to this day. Intelligent big-picture thinkers versus unintelligent small-picture thinkers.
Good stuff. Now the people who want a more even field to play are Unintelligent. The argument part being… that what you write is “true”, I guess. Every stat matters, the amount of time spent grinding matters, new player/casual/alt integration matters, unavailability of end-game gear in specific formats matters, having a fun and competitive PvP environment where Skillz > Gear matters. Game Balance matters.
Except your numbers are theory not practice.
The fact is Ascended stats are superior to Exotics stats.
This is not theory. It is in the game right now. It is the subject of this topic.
It is hard to tell if you really think what you write or just trolling, but let me tell you it is not very convincing to me.
You won’t convince PvP players that stat imbalance “doesn’t matter” in a PvP environment. WvW is a PvP environment.
There are too many things to account for in almost every WvW situation to conclude that the difference between victory and defeat solely came down to a gear stat advantage.
It does not solely came down to gear. But it does make the difference. We all understand it. The topic is not about “do you understand higher stats make your character stronger”, because you obviously do.
Try fighting in whites. Try fighting in Ascended. See any difference?
The topic is about
“What does the avantage Ascended players have on Exotic players add to WvW?”
“Why create a bigger gap, a bigger grind, to have the top gear to compete with?”
“Why make the already stronger, more active, more organized and experienced players at a bigger avantage over the new players/casual gamers?”
makes a difference in very specific scenarios
What kind of “specific” scenarios? Like every time I attack and every time I receive damage, and everytime I use some abilities? This must happen what… a few thousand times every night?
Very specific indeed. Higher stats gives you an advantage, all the time. There is no arguing on this.
It’s pretty sad that people who understand all too well Min-Max/Best Builds/PvP game-balance would promote stat imbalance, because they don’t like competing with even odds, and would rather have yet another advantage over less geared opponents.
On the other hand, if you don’t understand Min-max/Best Builds/PvP game-balance, if you don’t understand that Ascended gear only makes the strongest players stronger, then IMO you don’t have a clue about what is the issue at hand.
What about greens vs exotics? Blues vs Greens?
Full Exotics are fairly easy to get. “Easy” is subjective, yet most WvWers I have known for the last year never had an issue with it, and if you think Ascended is easy, well you must think Exotics is easy too, so we seem to have an agreement (what?) that Exotics are fairly accessible. The big difference with Ascended is also how you can get it, time-gates, how much time you must invest in activites you might dislike, how it is casual/newplayer/alt unfriendly, etc, where Exotics are accessible through all the game formats/modes.
Someone could argue Exotics is hard to get. In the end, the objective is to have an even field to compete, so like many others have stated, if players were to be down-scaled to blue in WvW, I wouldn’t mind, it would still achieve the same objective as removing Ascended from WvW, i.e. making it more balanced.
Perfect balance doesn’t exist in these games, but the idea here is GW2 Game Balance Team can work towards it, instead of against it.
Power Creep vs WvW
The WvW players don’t like WvW because of Ascended Gear. They like it for what the game is. They liked it before Ascended came, and a lot of them you can read on the forums are strongly against the “power creep” we see with Ascended gear. Everytime a new kind of ascended gear, the gap/power creep gets bigger.
WvW was never about gear. Lets not make it about gear. Healthy, accessible and fun PvP environments is not about Power-Creep. If you agree, support the OP.
(edited by Shiver.5903)
snip
that is quite a post. But WvW is inherently balanced, and only really balanced in the sense that everyone has to deal with the same inbalances.
If there were no gear tiers and then all of a sudden ascended, that’s one thing, but there are multiple gear tiers with various levels of difficulty to acquire. I dont think ascended is out of place and the effects of it’s implementation are a non-issue in the grand scheme of things.
If you were talking about PvP you would be right. But we are talking about PvEvP, where time does make a difference.
And why, exactly, should the time someone spends in fractals or doing dailies have any more bearing on WvWvW than on sPvP? It shouldn’t. It’s still PvP. It’s still intended to be competitive.
And this right here is where your whole argument breaks down. You clearly do not understand the point of WvWvW. You simply disagree with how WvWvW was intentionally designed, what it was intentionally designed to simulate. It was literally designed to simulate an open world Faction Vs Faction Vs Faction game something LIKE Dark of Age of Camelot, where it is a meld of PvP and PvE, and that is the reason why PvE has an effect on this mode of play, because it is a meld of PvE and PvP.
I do understand that. I simply believe that I, and many others, prefer to do that without the gear disparity. Perhaps you’re not understanding that many (if not the majority) of PvP (and WvWvW) players here come from the first GW. It had PvEvP as well. You could use your PvE gear in it, yes, but it didn’t matter because the only difference was cosmetics. If ArenaNet wanted to keep those players around, they needed to translate that to GW2. They didn’t, and I strongly believe that’s a big reason why WvWvW and GW2 in general are rapidly turning into a ghost town on many servers. I also believe that if they made changes as suggested by the OP here, they’d get some of those players back – as well as retain more current players.
Ascended gear came out just a few months after release, and since then (1 year anniversary) Anet has stated that WvWvW currently has more players playing it each day then the highest total number of logins on any given day with Guild Wars 1. What you think is happening, and what Anet has stated did happen, don’t seem to match up.
So I did a quick browse of the WvW forums, and you’re right about this one thing: it’s not the ghost town I thought it was. But the argument there is even more against ascended gear than the one in this thread. Most people want it gone; only a few players who don’t want to lose their gear advantage are arguing in favor of it. So for whatever reason, most players who DO participate in WvW feel it makes a difference and they don’t want it.
you can only say “most players” on a particular forum thread wants…. we ourselves have no hard data of what the general player base for WvWvW wants.
So go over to the WvW forums and check. Actually, I’ll even save you the trouble and just post the link to a current thread there about this.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Discussion-Ascended-gear-from-WvW
See, the entire issue here is that players like yourself don’t grasp the mentality of PvP players. PvP players don’t care how much difference a piece of better gear makes. If it’s BiS, they need it. A real PvPer doesn’t play to win “most of the time”. A real PvPer plays to win ALL the time, and any advantage that can be had is a must. So what if it only gives you 10 more hps? If you’ve played a lot of PvP, you have at some point had a situation where having 10 hps more or 10 hps less would have made the difference between a win and a loss. Even just losing one like that is too much.
If you were talking about PvP you would be right. But we are talking about PvEvP, where time does make a difference.
And why, exactly, should the time someone spends in fractals or doing dailies have any more bearing on WvWvW than on sPvP? It shouldn’t. It’s still PvP. It’s still intended to be competitive.
And this right here is where your whole argument breaks down. You clearly do not understand the point of WvWvW. You simply disagree with how WvWvW was intentionally designed, what it was intentionally designed to simulate. It was literally designed to simulate an open world Faction Vs Faction Vs Faction game something LIKE Dark of Age of Camelot, where it is a meld of PvP and PvE, and that is the reason why PvE has an effect on this mode of play, because it is a meld of PvE and PvP.
I do understand that. I simply believe that I, and many others, prefer to do that without the gear disparity. Perhaps you’re not understanding that many (if not the majority) of PvP (and WvWvW) players here come from the first GW. It had PvEvP as well. You could use your PvE gear in it, yes, but it didn’t matter because the only difference was cosmetics. If ArenaNet wanted to keep those players around, they needed to translate that to GW2. They didn’t, and I strongly believe that’s a big reason why WvWvW and GW2 in general are rapidly turning into a ghost town on many servers. I also believe that if they made changes as suggested by the OP here, they’d get some of those players back – as well as retain more current players.
Ascended gear came out just a few months after release, and since then (1 year anniversary) Anet has stated that WvWvW currently has more players playing it each day then the highest total number of logins on any given day with Guild Wars 1. What you think is happening, and what Anet has stated did happen, don’t seem to match up.
So I did a quick browse of the WvW forums, and you’re right about this one thing: it’s not the ghost town I thought it was. But the argument there is even more against ascended gear than the one in this thread. Most people want it gone; only a few players who don’t want to lose their gear advantage are arguing in favor of it. So for whatever reason, most players who DO participate in WvW feel it makes a difference and they don’t want it.
you can only say “most players” on a particular forum thread wants…. we ourselves have no hard data of what the general player base for WvWvW wants.
So go over to the WvW forums and check. Actually, I’ll even save you the trouble and just post the link to a current thread there about this.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Discussion-Ascended-gear-from-WvW
See, the entire issue here is that players like yourself don’t grasp the mentality of PvP players. PvP players don’t care how much difference a piece of better gear makes. If it’s BiS, they need it. A real PvPer doesn’t play to win “most of the time”. A real PvPer plays to win ALL the time, and any advantage that can be had is a must. So what if it only gives you 10 more hps? If you’ve played a lot of PvP, you have at some point had a situation where having 10 hps more or 10 hps less would have made the difference between a win and a loss. Even just losing one like that is too much.
If they are real PvPers, then they should be playing sPvP, and not PvEvP. If they are real PvPers, then perhaps they need to realize they shouldn’t be complaining about a game that is really isn’t meant for them. If they are real PvPers that want to compete, PvEvP is not the place for that, and wasn’t designed to be, that is why sPvP was created.
If you were talking about PvP you would be right. But we are talking about PvEvP, where time does make a difference.
And why, exactly, should the time someone spends in fractals or doing dailies have any more bearing on WvWvW than on sPvP? It shouldn’t. It’s still PvP. It’s still intended to be competitive.
And this right here is where your whole argument breaks down. You clearly do not understand the point of WvWvW. You simply disagree with how WvWvW was intentionally designed, what it was intentionally designed to simulate. It was literally designed to simulate an open world Faction Vs Faction Vs Faction game something LIKE Dark of Age of Camelot, where it is a meld of PvP and PvE, and that is the reason why PvE has an effect on this mode of play, because it is a meld of PvE and PvP.
I do understand that. I simply believe that I, and many others, prefer to do that without the gear disparity. Perhaps you’re not understanding that many (if not the majority) of PvP (and WvWvW) players here come from the first GW. It had PvEvP as well. You could use your PvE gear in it, yes, but it didn’t matter because the only difference was cosmetics. If ArenaNet wanted to keep those players around, they needed to translate that to GW2. They didn’t, and I strongly believe that’s a big reason why WvWvW and GW2 in general are rapidly turning into a ghost town on many servers. I also believe that if they made changes as suggested by the OP here, they’d get some of those players back – as well as retain more current players.
Ascended gear came out just a few months after release, and since then (1 year anniversary) Anet has stated that WvWvW currently has more players playing it each day then the highest total number of logins on any given day with Guild Wars 1. What you think is happening, and what Anet has stated did happen, don’t seem to match up.
So I did a quick browse of the WvW forums, and you’re right about this one thing: it’s not the ghost town I thought it was. But the argument there is even more against ascended gear than the one in this thread. Most people want it gone; only a few players who don’t want to lose their gear advantage are arguing in favor of it. So for whatever reason, most players who DO participate in WvW feel it makes a difference and they don’t want it.
you can only say “most players” on a particular forum thread wants…. we ourselves have no hard data of what the general player base for WvWvW wants.
So go over to the WvW forums and check. Actually, I’ll even save you the trouble and just post the link to a current thread there about this.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Discussion-Ascended-gear-from-WvW
See, the entire issue here is that players like yourself don’t grasp the mentality of PvP players. PvP players don’t care how much difference a piece of better gear makes. If it’s BiS, they need it. A real PvPer doesn’t play to win “most of the time”. A real PvPer plays to win ALL the time, and any advantage that can be had is a must. So what if it only gives you 10 more hps? If you’ve played a lot of PvP, you have at some point had a situation where having 10 hps more or 10 hps less would have made the difference between a win and a loss. Even just losing one like that is too much.
Okay so we’re just going to ignore that WvW is about large scale warfare and siege tactics in favor of making sure that there’s perfectly balanced 1v1 competition?
Can we please stop talking about WvW under the the same lens as structured/tournament PvP?
Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
“I didn’t buy into GW2 being the second coming of christ.
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
If you were talking about PvP you would be right. But we are talking about PvEvP, where time does make a difference.
And why, exactly, should the time someone spends in fractals or doing dailies have any more bearing on WvWvW than on sPvP? It shouldn’t. It’s still PvP. It’s still intended to be competitive.
And this right here is where your whole argument breaks down. You clearly do not understand the point of WvWvW. You simply disagree with how WvWvW was intentionally designed, what it was intentionally designed to simulate. It was literally designed to simulate an open world Faction Vs Faction Vs Faction game something LIKE Dark of Age of Camelot, where it is a meld of PvP and PvE, and that is the reason why PvE has an effect on this mode of play, because it is a meld of PvE and PvP.
I do understand that. I simply believe that I, and many others, prefer to do that without the gear disparity. Perhaps you’re not understanding that many (if not the majority) of PvP (and WvWvW) players here come from the first GW. It had PvEvP as well. You could use your PvE gear in it, yes, but it didn’t matter because the only difference was cosmetics. If ArenaNet wanted to keep those players around, they needed to translate that to GW2. They didn’t, and I strongly believe that’s a big reason why WvWvW and GW2 in general are rapidly turning into a ghost town on many servers. I also believe that if they made changes as suggested by the OP here, they’d get some of those players back – as well as retain more current players.
Ascended gear came out just a few months after release, and since then (1 year anniversary) Anet has stated that WvWvW currently has more players playing it each day then the highest total number of logins on any given day with Guild Wars 1. What you think is happening, and what Anet has stated did happen, don’t seem to match up.
So I did a quick browse of the WvW forums, and you’re right about this one thing: it’s not the ghost town I thought it was. But the argument there is even more against ascended gear than the one in this thread. Most people want it gone; only a few players who don’t want to lose their gear advantage are arguing in favor of it. So for whatever reason, most players who DO participate in WvW feel it makes a difference and they don’t want it.
you can only say “most players” on a particular forum thread wants…. we ourselves have no hard data of what the general player base for WvWvW wants.
So go over to the WvW forums and check. Actually, I’ll even save you the trouble and just post the link to a current thread there about this.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Discussion-Ascended-gear-from-WvW
See, the entire issue here is that players like yourself don’t grasp the mentality of PvP players. PvP players don’t care how much difference a piece of better gear makes. If it’s BiS, they need it. A real PvPer doesn’t play to win “most of the time”. A real PvPer plays to win ALL the time, and any advantage that can be had is a must. So what if it only gives you 10 more hps? If you’ve played a lot of PvP, you have at some point had a situation where having 10 hps more or 10 hps less would have made the difference between a win and a loss. Even just losing one like that is too much.
If they are real PvPers, then they should be playing sPvP, and not PvEvP. If they are real PvPers, then perhaps they need to realize they shouldn’t be complaining about a game that is really isn’t meant for them. If they are real PvPers that want to compete, PvEvP is not the place for that, and wasn’t designed to be, that is why sPvP was created.
it’s not PvEvP, it’s WvWvW
checkmate kitten
I still think, your titel is too long, how about:
Remove Ascended from WvWvW
Mesmer PvE Guide
The Leveling & Open World Compendium
The Leveling & Open World Compendium
If you were talking about PvP you would be right. But we are talking about PvEvP, where time does make a difference.
And why, exactly, should the time someone spends in fractals or doing dailies have any more bearing on WvWvW than on sPvP? It shouldn’t. It’s still PvP. It’s still intended to be competitive.
And this right here is where your whole argument breaks down. You clearly do not understand the point of WvWvW. You simply disagree with how WvWvW was intentionally designed, what it was intentionally designed to simulate. It was literally designed to simulate an open world Faction Vs Faction Vs Faction game something LIKE Dark of Age of Camelot, where it is a meld of PvP and PvE, and that is the reason why PvE has an effect on this mode of play, because it is a meld of PvE and PvP.
I do understand that. I simply believe that I, and many others, prefer to do that without the gear disparity. Perhaps you’re not understanding that many (if not the majority) of PvP (and WvWvW) players here come from the first GW. It had PvEvP as well. You could use your PvE gear in it, yes, but it didn’t matter because the only difference was cosmetics. If ArenaNet wanted to keep those players around, they needed to translate that to GW2. They didn’t, and I strongly believe that’s a big reason why WvWvW and GW2 in general are rapidly turning into a ghost town on many servers. I also believe that if they made changes as suggested by the OP here, they’d get some of those players back – as well as retain more current players.
Ascended gear came out just a few months after release, and since then (1 year anniversary) Anet has stated that WvWvW currently has more players playing it each day then the highest total number of logins on any given day with Guild Wars 1. What you think is happening, and what Anet has stated did happen, don’t seem to match up.
So I did a quick browse of the WvW forums, and you’re right about this one thing: it’s not the ghost town I thought it was. But the argument there is even more against ascended gear than the one in this thread. Most people want it gone; only a few players who don’t want to lose their gear advantage are arguing in favor of it. So for whatever reason, most players who DO participate in WvW feel it makes a difference and they don’t want it.
you can only say “most players” on a particular forum thread wants…. we ourselves have no hard data of what the general player base for WvWvW wants.
So go over to the WvW forums and check. Actually, I’ll even save you the trouble and just post the link to a current thread there about this.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Discussion-Ascended-gear-from-WvW
See, the entire issue here is that players like yourself don’t grasp the mentality of PvP players. PvP players don’t care how much difference a piece of better gear makes. If it’s BiS, they need it. A real PvPer doesn’t play to win “most of the time”. A real PvPer plays to win ALL the time, and any advantage that can be had is a must. So what if it only gives you 10 more hps? If you’ve played a lot of PvP, you have at some point had a situation where having 10 hps more or 10 hps less would have made the difference between a win and a loss. Even just losing one like that is too much.
If they are real PvPers, then they should be playing sPvP, and not PvEvP. If they are real PvPers, then perhaps they need to realize they shouldn’t be complaining about a game that is really isn’t meant for them. If they are real PvPers that want to compete, PvEvP is not the place for that, and wasn’t designed to be, that is why sPvP was created.
it’s not PvEvP, it’s WvWvW
checkmate kitten
WvWvW is PvEvP, PvE because you have to fight non playing characters and structures in order to cap the objective.
So yeah, Check Mate kitten /rolleyes
eisberg is right in this instance that WvWvW is PvPvE. By definition it is PvE since all aspects of PvE exist in WvW.
I almost feel like a parody of this thread lol.
Everyone is arguing about the effect of Ascended in WvW. Lets step back and use logic.
Since X gear is hurting WvW for being S stats more powerful than Y gear, so X gear should be lowered to Y gear or removed from WvW.
By this same argument you guys are making about ascended gear it effects all gear.
If X = exotic and Y = normal
Since Exotics is hurting WvW for being S stats more powerful than normal gear, so exotic gear should be lowered to normal gear or removed from WvW.
Your exact same argument placed in a logical format. If you argue against the case i made about Exotics being lowered to normal you will being fighting against your own argument no matter reasons you give.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
No, because the intent was that max stats would be easily obtainable so we could actually enjoy the game rather than grind. That was the case with exotics because they were trivial to get. Because they were trivial to get, it allowed people to have several different sets which allowed them to experiment with a variety of builds. Ascended is a gigantic limitation and a detriment in an already fairly shallow game.
Just stop it and admit that you’re willing to grind until your eyes bleed for a full ascended set because you want that advantage over others. You want to smoke them and you’ve no interest in “skill” or a more level playing field.
No, because the intent was that max stats would be easily obtainable so we could actually enjoy the game rather than grind. That was the case with exotics because they were trivial to get. Because they were trivial to get, it allowed people to have several different sets which allowed them to experiment with a variety of builds. Ascended is a gigantic limitation and a detriment in an already fairly shallow game.
Just stop it and admit that you’re willing to grind until your eyes bleed for a full ascended set because you want that advantage over others. You want to smoke them and you’ve no interest in “skill” or a more level playing field.
You are still thinking of your play style. There is still some players who havn’t even gained their first set of exotics. They would say exotics are hard to get (I know a few). This fact alone defeats your argument. Ascended can be gained even by casual players using laurels, exotics can not. Your trying to defend exotics which is then hurting your argument for ascended based on logic.
You gained exotics and use them in WvW to “smoke” other players or a more level playing field. You do realize based on how this type of argument works I can easily switch out any gear into its place and show you how your argument sounds to Ascended people.
edit: I never grinded for my ascended. If you think you need to grind you are so wrong and need to rethink how you play.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
No, because the intent was that max stats would be easily obtainable so we could actually enjoy the game rather than grind. That was the case with exotics because they were trivial to get. Because they were trivial to get, it allowed people to have several different sets which allowed them to experiment with a variety of builds. Ascended is a gigantic limitation and a detriment in an already fairly shallow game.
Just stop it and admit that you’re willing to grind until your eyes bleed for a full ascended set because you want that advantage over others. You want to smoke them and you’ve no interest in “skill” or a more level playing field.
You are still thinking of your play style. There is still some players who havn’t even gained their first set of exotics. They would say exotics are hard to get (I know a few). This fact alone defeats your argument. Ascended can be gained even by casual players using laurels, exotics can not. Your trying to defend exotics which is then hurting your argument for ascended based on logic.
You gained exotics and use them in WvW to “smoke” other players or a more level playing field. You do realize based on how this type of argument works I can easily switch out any gear into its place and show you how your argument sounds to Ascended people.
They aren’t hard to get for anybody. Don’t even try to compare exotics to the process that is ascended gearing.
When I hit 80, I dropped $10 (combined with the money I earned just from leveling ) and had two sets, plus runes/orbs/sigils, (crafted/purchased).
A step below that would be simply mailing gear to new 80s.
And like I said before, I wouldn’t care if they capped gear at a level below exotics. It doesn’t matter to me.
Because they were trivial to get, it allowed people to have several different sets which allowed them to experiment with a variety of builds. Ascended is a gigantic limitation and a detriment in an already fairly shallow game.
I don’t see how you require BiS gear to experiment with a build when exotics will give you a pretty good barometer of how the build will perform.
It’s not like exotics are less indicative of effectiveness.
“I didn’t buy into GW2 being the second coming of christ.
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
No, because the intent was that max stats would be easily obtainable so we could actually enjoy the game rather than grind. That was the case with exotics because they were trivial to get. Because they were trivial to get, it allowed people to have several different sets which allowed them to experiment with a variety of builds. Ascended is a gigantic limitation and a detriment in an already fairly shallow game.
Just stop it and admit that you’re willing to grind until your eyes bleed for a full ascended set because you want that advantage over others. You want to smoke them and you’ve no interest in “skill” or a more level playing field.
You are still thinking of your play style. There is still some players who havn’t even gained their first set of exotics. They would say exotics are hard to get (I know a few). This fact alone defeats your argument. Ascended can be gained even by casual players using laurels, exotics can not. Your trying to defend exotics which is then hurting your argument for ascended based on logic.
You gained exotics and use them in WvW to “smoke” other players or a more level playing field. You do realize based on how this type of argument works I can easily switch out any gear into its place and show you how your argument sounds to Ascended people.
They aren’t hard to get for anybody. Don’t even try to compare exotics to the process that is ascended gearing.
When I hit 80, I dropped $10 (combined with the money I earned just from leveling ) and had two sets, plus runes/orbs/sigils, (crafted/purchased).
A step below that would be simply mailing gear to new 80s.
And like I said before, I wouldn’t care if they capped gear at a level below exotics. It doesn’t matter to me.
Funny enough I grinded more for my exotics and people grind dungeons for tokens. Ascended can be gained easily without grinding for it. Hell i gained 200 fragments just from WvW in 2 days. You used real money which some people can’t afford to do. There is also people who can’t play every day to run a dungeon for tokens. Sure crafting to 400 and making exotics is easiest way to get exotics but if you think about it it crafting to 500 and crafting ascended is also the easiest way to get ascended weapons. Ascended rings and amulets can be gained via laurels which any casual can get. Hell i know people who never had an exotic but have 2 ascended pieces.
Stop thinking of yourself and think of other people. Your play style is not the only one that exists.
So your saying you want PvP gear within WvW basically. Which is not the point of WvW cause if Anet wanted it that way they would have done it at the start. Ascended has nothing to do with this than.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
We should get rid of level 400 foods in wvw because crafting Cooking to 400 is too much of a grind.
We should get rid of level 400 foods in wvw because crafting Cooking to 400 is too much of a grind.
so true and provides an unfair advantage to people who spent the time to craft it. Its unfair to the people who didn’t spend a lot of time cooking.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
This. I’m seriously at a loss for words at this point when I just see both sides reiterate the exact same thing over and over. They are preaching to their own choirs and nothing either side says will convince the other.
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
This. I’m seriously at a loss for words at this point when I just see both sides reiterate the exact same thing over and over. They are preaching to their own choirs and nothing either side says will convince the other.
at least you’re not pulling double-duty like Dark Catalyst, losing the same argument in this thread and the WvW thread.
yeah i agree dragonite is a problem in WvW, but the best source of dragonite takes about 5-10 min (except lyssa) for 30, so its not really that big a deal. Hopefully they figure an objective or something that gives you dragonite aside from smc.
Why not simply increase the amount we get from keeps? I mean I took Bay last night and only got 3 dragonite. Thats clearly too little.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Stop thinking of yourself and think of other people. Your play style is not the only one that exists.
Pot meet kettle.
We should get rid of level 400 foods in wvw because crafting Cooking to 400 is too much of a grind.
Dunno why people keep saying this, its a fallacy, food and oils are easily available via the TP.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
(edited by morrolan.9608)
Stop thinking of yourself and think of other people. Your play style is not the only one that exists.
Pot meet kettle.
Suddenflame isn’t advocating taking away benefits that players worked for because he doesn’t want to work for it.
“I didn’t buy into GW2 being the second coming of christ.
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
Stop thinking of yourself and think of other people. Your play style is not the only one that exists.
Pot meet kettle.
Suddenflame isn’t advocating taking away benefits that players worked for because he doesn’t want to work for it.
What benefits? You’re constantly claiming ascended makes no overall difference in a WvW experience.
Because they were trivial to get, it allowed people to have several different sets which allowed them to experiment with a variety of builds. Ascended is a gigantic limitation and a detriment in an already fairly shallow game.
I don’t see how you require BiS gear to experiment with a build when exotics will give you a pretty good barometer of how the build will perform.
It’s not like exotics are less indicative of effectiveness.
What if I want to play more than one build at the highest level?
Because they were trivial to get, it allowed people to have several different sets which allowed them to experiment with a variety of builds. Ascended is a gigantic limitation and a detriment in an already fairly shallow game.
I don’t see how you require BiS gear to experiment with a build when exotics will give you a pretty good barometer of how the build will perform.
It’s not like exotics are less indicative of effectiveness.
What if I want to play more than one build at the highest level?
You’re shifting goal posts. Having BiS for a build isn’t required to experiment with one.
What benefits? You’re constantly claiming ascended makes no overall difference in a WvW experience.
But the benefits are still there, whether or not they make a difference to the match.
It’s the principle of taking away rewards that people earned because you don’t feel like you should have to earn them.
“I didn’t buy into GW2 being the second coming of christ.
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
We should get rid of level 400 foods in wvw because crafting Cooking to 400 is too much of a grind.
Dunno why people keep saying this, its a fallacy, food and oils are easily available via the TP.
So are legendaries and ascended mats. You’re dodging the main balance issue: level 400 foods are expensive and for the large amount of players who barely have rare level gear they are out of reach.
You are creating a distinction without difference, since you’re into fallacies and all.
The main argument is that when you take two equally skilled players, using the same profession and race combination, that Ascended gear will guarantee a victory over the non-Ascended gear opponent. One major flaw to this is that equally skilled players fighting one on one, using the same profession and race, is unique. You cannot use this argument as proof that Ascended gear needs to be removed, because 99.99999% of WvW isn’t like this. Having a small stat increase from Ascended gear will never guarantee wins in a real WvW fight. That is a proven fact, since no two players are exactly alike. You cannot measure skill level with numbers, therefore you cannot compare two different people.
This is how the current argument is going:
Ascended > Exotic. Therefore remove Ascended gear.
Exotic > Rare. Therefore remove Exotic gear.
Rare > Masterwork. Therefore remove Rare.
Masterwork > White. Therefore remove Masterwork.
I think the complainers would be happy if everyone was on the same level – Basic White gear. But they fail to realize that WvW is not SPvP. If they’re not happy with WvW, they should stick to the structured PvP part of the game, where everything is even.
But hark, there’s more:
Superior Runes can give an unfair advantage as well, since they add bonus stats to a player’s attributes. And since Superior Runes are so hard to come by in WvW… well, you know how the current argument goes.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
If you were talking about PvP you would be right. But we are talking about PvEvP, where time does make a difference.
And why, exactly, should the time someone spends in fractals or doing dailies have any more bearing on WvWvW than on sPvP? It shouldn’t. It’s still PvP. It’s still intended to be competitive.
And this right here is where your whole argument breaks down. You clearly do not understand the point of WvWvW. You simply disagree with how WvWvW was intentionally designed, what it was intentionally designed to simulate. It was literally designed to simulate an open world Faction Vs Faction Vs Faction game something LIKE Dark of Age of Camelot, where it is a meld of PvP and PvE, and that is the reason why PvE has an effect on this mode of play, because it is a meld of PvE and PvP.
I do understand that. I simply believe that I, and many others, prefer to do that without the gear disparity. Perhaps you’re not understanding that many (if not the majority) of PvP (and WvWvW) players here come from the first GW. It had PvEvP as well. You could use your PvE gear in it, yes, but it didn’t matter because the only difference was cosmetics. If ArenaNet wanted to keep those players around, they needed to translate that to GW2. They didn’t, and I strongly believe that’s a big reason why WvWvW and GW2 in general are rapidly turning into a ghost town on many servers. I also believe that if they made changes as suggested by the OP here, they’d get some of those players back – as well as retain more current players.
Ascended gear came out just a few months after release, and since then (1 year anniversary) Anet has stated that WvWvW currently has more players playing it each day then the highest total number of logins on any given day with Guild Wars 1. What you think is happening, and what Anet has stated did happen, don’t seem to match up.
So I did a quick browse of the WvW forums, and you’re right about this one thing: it’s not the ghost town I thought it was. But the argument there is even more against ascended gear than the one in this thread. Most people want it gone; only a few players who don’t want to lose their gear advantage are arguing in favor of it. So for whatever reason, most players who DO participate in WvW feel it makes a difference and they don’t want it.
you can only say “most players” on a particular forum thread wants…. we ourselves have no hard data of what the general player base for WvWvW wants.
So go over to the WvW forums and check. Actually, I’ll even save you the trouble and just post the link to a current thread there about this.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Discussion-Ascended-gear-from-WvW
See, the entire issue here is that players like yourself don’t grasp the mentality of PvP players. PvP players don’t care how much difference a piece of better gear makes. If it’s BiS, they need it. A real PvPer doesn’t play to win “most of the time”. A real PvPer plays to win ALL the time, and any advantage that can be had is a must. So what if it only gives you 10 more hps? If you’ve played a lot of PvP, you have at some point had a situation where having 10 hps more or 10 hps less would have made the difference between a win and a loss. Even just losing one like that is too much.
Okay so we’re just going to ignore that WvW is about large scale warfare and siege tactics in favor of making sure that there’s perfectly balanced 1v1 competition?
Can we please stop talking about WvW under the the same lens as structured/tournament PvP?
Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
No PvP in GW is or has ever been about perfectly balanced 1v1 competition. They don’t even allow duals like WoW did, kitten , for that very reason. None of this has the least bit relevance on this discussion though. Every single argument here in favor of keeping the advantage from ascended gear has been demonstrated to be without merit.
Ascended > Exotic. Therefore remove Ascended gear.
Exotic > Rare. Therefore remove Exotic gear.
Rare > Masterwork. Therefore remove Rare.
Masterwork > White. Therefore remove Masterwork.I think the complainers would be happy if everyone was on the same level – Basic White gear. But they fail to realize that WvW is not SPvP. If they’re not happy with WvW, they should stick to the structured PvP part of the game, where everything is even.
But hark, there’s more:
Superior Runes can give an unfair advantage as well, since they add bonus stats to a player’s attributes. And since Superior Runes are so hard to come by in WvW… well, you know how the current argument goes.
The “complainers” appear to be the majority of the people who play WvWvW. Maybe you should go over to those forums and tell them exactly how their game mode is supposed to work and why their opinions mean nothing? Clearly, you’re the only person who’s opinion actually matters, right?
We should get rid of level 400 foods in wvw because crafting Cooking to 400 is too much of a grind.
Dunno why people keep saying this, its a fallacy, food and oils are easily available via the TP.
So are legendaries and ascended mats. You’re dodging the main balance issue: level 400 foods are expensive and for the large amount of players who barely have rare level gear they are out of reach.
You are creating a distinction without difference, since you’re into fallacies and all.
Way to intentionally ignore context. “Easily” in this case obviously means “cheap enough for most players to afford.”
Legendaries are not cheap. Ascended mats are not cheap. You can’t craft all ascended gear. Ignoring these differences just reveals the fact that you don’t care about the truth at all, but would rather just spout whatever nonsense you feel like.
But the benefits are still there, whether or not they make a difference to the match.
Wow, that’s rich. If there’s a benefit, they make a difference. If they don’t make a difference, there’s no benefit. This is not opinion, this is fact.
It’s the principle of taking away rewards that people earned because you don’t feel like you should have to earn them.
That’s 100% the wrong principle to be promoting in PvP. The correct principle is that people shouldn’t have some arbitrary advantage because they had the time and the patience to do some arbitrary and completely unrelated task.
Ascended > Exotic. Therefore remove Ascended gear.
Exotic > Rare. Therefore remove Exotic gear.
Rare > Masterwork. Therefore remove Rare.
Masterwork > White. Therefore remove Masterwork.I think the complainers would be happy if everyone was on the same level – Basic White gear. But they fail to realize that WvW is not SPvP. If they’re not happy with WvW, they should stick to the structured PvP part of the game, where everything is even.
But hark, there’s more:
Superior Runes can give an unfair advantage as well, since they add bonus stats to a player’s attributes. And since Superior Runes are so hard to come by in WvW… well, you know how the current argument goes.
The “complainers” appear to be the majority of the people who play WvWvW. Maybe you should go over to those forums and tell them exactly how their game mode is supposed to work and why their opinions mean nothing? Clearly, you’re the only person who’s opinion actually matters, right?
Actually, the complainers are the minority of the WvW player base. When you’re an active WvWer, like myself, you don’t see people having this argument in chat. What you’re seeing is just a few people upset that they can’t get Ascended gear.
Side note – I’m not a hardcore WvW, yet I can afford to be fully geared in all Ascended items, including weapons. In fact, playing WvW makes getting Ascended gear easier, since they drop from rank chests, and Ascended level mats are as common as dirt from camp/tower/keep chests.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
(edited by Smooth Penguin.5294)
Stop thinking of yourself and think of other people. Your play style is not the only one that exists.
Pot meet kettle.
Suddenflame isn’t advocating taking away benefits that players worked for because he doesn’t want to work for it.
You keep coming up with these strawman arguments.
Oh and BTW I don’t agree with the original post. But IMHO BiS gear should be easily obtainable as arenanet said it would be prior to launch, not more of a grind than even BiS gear in WoW is. That way the advantage is nullified anyway.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
(edited by morrolan.9608)
Dunno why people keep saying this, its a fallacy, food and oils are easily available via the TP.
So are legendaries and ascended mats.
No they aren’t because of the cost.
You’re dodging the main balance issue: level 400 foods are expensive
You can quite easily buy top level food and oils or near top level from the gold you earn in WvW. You can’t with the mats you require to make ascended items. Heck guilds on good servers will normally provide food trays.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Ascended > Exotic. Therefore remove Ascended gear.
Exotic > Rare. Therefore remove Exotic gear.
Rare > Masterwork. Therefore remove Rare.
Masterwork > White. Therefore remove Masterwork.I think the complainers would be happy if everyone was on the same level – Basic White gear. But they fail to realize that WvW is not SPvP. If they’re not happy with WvW, they should stick to the structured PvP part of the game, where everything is even.
But hark, there’s more:
Superior Runes can give an unfair advantage as well, since they add bonus stats to a player’s attributes. And since Superior Runes are so hard to come by in WvW… well, you know how the current argument goes.
The “complainers” appear to be the majority of the people who play WvWvW. Maybe you should go over to those forums and tell them exactly how their game mode is supposed to work and why their opinions mean nothing? Clearly, you’re the only person who’s opinion actually matters, right?
Actually, the complainers are the minority of the WvW player base. When you’re an active WvWer, like myself, you don’t see people having this argument in chat. What you’re seeing is just a few people upset that they can’t get Ascended gear.
Complainers are in the minority of EVERYTHING. Most people don’t speak up, regardless of their feelings on the matter. Do not mistake the silence of the silent majority with agreeing with the status quo.
And perhaps people aren’t complaining about it in chat because it clogs chat with things that aren’t, say, scouting reports or orders.
but gear stats is probably the least significant factor you can account for in WvW.
OK go out there as a level 80 in blue gear and see how you go, see how you hamstring your team in larger battles.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
I’ve never heard of my wvw-er complaints about accended gears. I am talking about the people who wvw every single day they log on gw2. I myself do not care if I do not have ascended gear going to wvw. As stated before, my necro sports full exotics with 2 ascended rings and 1 ascended amulet. I do not feel like I have a disadvantage in wvw at all. I do not have ascended gear because I chose not to get them, but it is there for me to get. I do not see the unfairness in this issue.
edit: I am not a hard core wvw person. I wvw at least twice a week.
edit: to the person above
@ morrolan: the difference between blue, green, yellow, orange is quite a few. the difference between pink and orange gears are not that much.
(edited by pho.9412)
Ascended > Exotic. Therefore remove Ascended gear.
Exotic > Rare. Therefore remove Exotic gear.
Rare > Masterwork. Therefore remove Rare.
Masterwork > White. Therefore remove Masterwork.I think the complainers would be happy if everyone was on the same level – Basic White gear. But they fail to realize that WvW is not SPvP. If they’re not happy with WvW, they should stick to the structured PvP part of the game, where everything is even.
But hark, there’s more:
Superior Runes can give an unfair advantage as well, since they add bonus stats to a player’s attributes. And since Superior Runes are so hard to come by in WvW… well, you know how the current argument goes.
The “complainers” appear to be the majority of the people who play WvWvW. Maybe you should go over to those forums and tell them exactly how their game mode is supposed to work and why their opinions mean nothing? Clearly, you’re the only person who’s opinion actually matters, right?
Actually, the complainers are the minority of the WvW player base. When you’re an active WvWer, like myself, you don’t see people having this argument in chat. What you’re seeing is just a few people upset that they can’t get Ascended gear.
Complainers are in the minority of EVERYTHING. Most people don’t speak up, regardless of their feelings on the matter. Do not mistake the silence of the silent majority with agreeing with the status quo.
And perhaps people aren’t complaining about it in chat because it clogs chat with things that aren’t, say, scouting reports or orders.
This, exactly.
I know how PvPers feel about having to do PvE to get BiS gear, whether they post about it or not. I know because I’ve been through this same issue before. Having BiS gear in WoW come from raids in vanilla was probably THE single most complained-about issue. Guess what happened? First expansion, they completely changed that. BiS PvP gear came from doing PvP. (I didn’t care for arena much myself, but the vast majority were thrilled.) And WoW went on to become the most successful American/Western MMO in history, and still is. That change had a lot to do with it. If you could get every single piece of ascended gear from doing nothing but PvP, and get it all in 1-2 months if you grind hardcore, the vast majority of the PvPers would be happy, and the few complaints left would be from outliers too few to matter.
So in a nutshell, that’s what needs to happen. They either need to remove the advantage from ascended gear, or make it all available via PvP for a reasonable amount of time and effort.
Ascended > Exotic. Therefore remove Ascended gear.
Exotic > Rare. Therefore remove Exotic gear.
Rare > Masterwork. Therefore remove Rare.
Masterwork > White. Therefore remove Masterwork.I think the complainers would be happy if everyone was on the same level – Basic White gear. But they fail to realize that WvW is not SPvP. If they’re not happy with WvW, they should stick to the structured PvP part of the game, where everything is even.
But hark, there’s more:
Superior Runes can give an unfair advantage as well, since they add bonus stats to a player’s attributes. And since Superior Runes are so hard to come by in WvW… well, you know how the current argument goes.
The “complainers” appear to be the majority of the people who play WvWvW. Maybe you should go over to those forums and tell them exactly how their game mode is supposed to work and why their opinions mean nothing? Clearly, you’re the only person who’s opinion actually matters, right?
Actually, the complainers are the minority of the WvW player base. When you’re an active WvWer, like myself, you don’t see people having this argument in chat. What you’re seeing is just a few people upset that they can’t get Ascended gear.
Complainers are in the minority of EVERYTHING. Most people don’t speak up, regardless of their feelings on the matter. Do not mistake the silence of the silent majority with agreeing with the status quo.
And perhaps people aren’t complaining about it in chat because it clogs chat with things that aren’t, say, scouting reports or orders.This, exactly.
I know how PvPers feel about having to do PvE to get BiS gear, whether they post about it or not. I know because I’ve been through this same issue before. Having BiS gear in WoW come from raids in vanilla was probably THE single most complained-about issue. Guess what happened? First expansion, they completely changed that. BiS PvP gear came from doing PvP. (I didn’t care for arena much myself, but the vast majority were thrilled.) And WoW went on to become the most successful American/Western MMO in history, and still is. That change had a lot to do with it. If you could get every single piece of ascended gear from doing nothing but PvP, and get it all in 1-2 months if you grind hardcore, the vast majority of the PvPers would be happy, and the few complaints left would be from outliers too few to matter.
So in a nutshell, that’s what needs to happen. They either need to remove the advantage from ascended gear, or make it all available via PvP for a reasonable amount of time and effort.
Since it’s admitted that the complainers are in the minority, why would Anet make major changes to the game to appease the small, vocal minority? Also, WvW is not SPvP. therefore it’s ok to use Ascended gear.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
Just because someone is in a hypothetical minority, doesn’t mean what he’s saying is wrong.
Since it’s admitted that the complainers are in the minority, why would Anet make major changes to the game to appease the small, vocal minority?
That’s a very good question. Why did they try to appease the vocal minority of people who wanted vertical progression by adding ascended at all?
But the benefits are still there, whether or not they make a difference to the match.
Wow, that’s rich. If there’s a benefit, they make a difference. If they don’t make a difference, there’s no benefit. This is not opinion, this is fact.
It’s the principle of taking away rewards that people earned because you don’t feel like you should have to earn them.
That’s 100% the wrong principle to be promoting in PvP. The correct principle is that people shouldn’t have some arbitrary advantage because they had the time and the patience to do some arbitrary and completely unrelated task.
Mind boggling, eh?