Guild Wars 2

EotM’s a trash map, but those of you complaining about how it’s nothing but a pve map populated by ktrainers, look at it this way: EotM didn’t get contaminated with guild upgrades the way regular wvw did. Ever since HOT, you can’t claim anything in EotM. Which means no Dragon Banners, no Chilling Fog, no indestructible automated turrets (still those destructible ones in the SW third, though, but hey, at least they’re destructible) . . . It makes me throw up a little in my mouth to say it, but as gimmicky as EotM is, regular wvw’s worse; that’s just how far HOT made it fall. So maybe the EotM and regular wvw players should swap places.

At least, don’t get so jealous over how EotM didn’t get kittened over when regular wvw did, lol.

Jana.6831:

That Diamond player was an EotM player – No wvw player has got a Diamond rank and if, I shouldn’t be able to beat them.

Loads of regular wvw players have diamond ranks, so no idea what on earth you’re talking about. Saw them and upper mithril all the time back when I was in t1 a year-ish ago. I’m in t2 now, and barely touch wvw at all anymore, but when I do, I still see at least one each time. I have noticed that most of the rank 1k+ players have either quit the game or quit the format, though. Most enemy groups I see now are just bronze/silver with a few golds, when they used to be silver/gold/plat with a few mithril and diamonds. So maybe that’s where your confusion’s coming from.

FogLeg.9354:

I don’t know how to explain the situation to players blindly defending EotM. But I will try once more…

WvW makes sense only if there is enough players to fight in all 3 servers, in most times, in every map. Without enemies its boring and even those who log in to check it will leave soon. All the players in EotM are potential WvW players who have not only left their own server empty but have also ruined the WvW for other 2 servers because they chose to not fight opponents and instead join mindless karma train in huge blob in amap that has no other purpose except to endlessly farm stuff.

What you EotM-lovers misunderstand is the cause and effect. You claim people go to EotM because WvW is boring, meaning boring and empty WvW is the cause and so many players in EotM is the effect. Which is completely wrong. People go to EotM because it offers same rewards for much less work, and so having easy way to avoid any real WvW is the cause. Empty and boring WvW is the effect of having EotM because players in EotM are not in WvW.

Game provides 2 very similar game systems that have same rewards but one requires you to fight many skillful enemies who are very tough to kill and often kill you first. While the other system only asks for simple tag-following, providing same rewards in much faster rate, and without any fair of ever bumping into those pesky enemy players. Yes, many players will choose the easy way. Yes, they will like it very much. Of course they will jump out and shout loudly at everyone asking to nerf their unfair rewards. It still must be nerfed. Every game must constantly cut off farming spots with way too good reward/effort/time rate and EotM is just one big fat farming spot. Its popularity is not the reason to keep it in the game, but good indication of just how much damage it does to the game.

I agree with you that one is superfluous. I do not agree with you that EotM is superfluous.

WvW will not be able to fill its 36 (EU) + 32 (NA) Maps with or without EotM-player.
So yes there aren’t enough players for WvW anymore, but my conclusion is give up WvW it’s time has passed by. Do not touch the only halfway working game mode, where you can find enemies to fight due to it’s superior design, namely the dynamic number of maps. EoM works better than WvW, not because has many more player, but because it only has as many maps as are needed to fit the players.

But yes, BL’s and EB are more suitable for several player: Add them to EotM mode.
And yes, the random-team assignment is a mess for cooperative play: Add a map-instance choice, such that player can easily join the map-instances where their server or guild plays.

Summary: Improve the better working game-mode (EotM) such that anyone can live with it, do not shut it down for an attempt (doomed to fail anyway) to reanimate a dead game mode (WvW).

Dayra.7405:

EoM works better than WvW, not because has many more player, but because it only has as many maps as are needed to fit the players.

Lol ya were no one actually fights one another.

Arbitrary team match ups and scoreboards that reset every couple of hours are trash and we can see that they are trash because people stopped using the map as a serious fighting area where they cared if their color won or lost within the first month.

If people take your pvp mode and use it primarily to farm for pve rewards, it is a failure of a mode.

Substance E.4852:

Dayra.7405:

EoM works better than WvW, not because has many more player, but because it only has as many maps as are needed to fit the players.

Lol ya were no one actually fights one another.

This is a pre-justice not supported by reality anymore. And even if it would be true, it can easily be changed: Attack them

Substance E.4852:

Arbitrary team match ups and scoreboards that reset every couple of hours are trash and we can see that they are trash because people stopped using the map as a serious fighting area where they cared if their color won or lost within the first month.

Yeah it should be improved, and thats why I said in https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/4-Step-Rescue-Plan-for-WvW

• make scoring such that it can be credited to servers, even if several of them play on the same side on the same map
• export the scoring via API such that pages like http://mos.millenium.org can use them to score the server.

Substance E.4852:

If people take your pvp mode and use it primarily to farm for pve rewards, it is a failure of a mode.

This is also pre-justice not supported by reality. For PvE rewards you play PvE, it has much better rewards. EotM rewards got nerfed last summer (less rewards) and with HoT (no more champ-chests on conquest).

Do you really believe that anyone playing EotM for PvE-rewards would play WvW? So should your pre-justice be true, no one from EotM would go to WvW.

Dayra.7405:

Do you really believe that anyone playing EotM for PvE-rewards would play WvW? So should your pre-justice be true, no one from EotM would go to WvW.

lolwut?

You are the one who put forth the idea that EotM was a superior system to WvW. All I did was point out all the reasons it failed to work as a similar attack/defend big fight pvp game mode.

If people actually wanted what EotM offers more than what WvW offers they would have moved there when it launched. They didn’t.

Your idea that Anet should quote “give up WvW it’s time has passed by” is laughable at best if you seriously think people would just move on to an inferior system. WvW lost a huge amount of people just to the desert borderlands and the HoT mechanics alone.

Zephyra.4709:

This.

It pains me to see how cruel, mindless & un constructive some players perceive things.

“I don’t like people playing X game mode, so let’s remove it completely so they are forced to play the one I play.”

What kind of logic is that?

Removing content is the pinnicle of selfishness, a poisonous action that alienates certain players from playing said removed content and leaving them in the dirt with only one option, one they either like or don’t. I would think the latter if someone removed content permanently that I enjoyed playing.

It’s sad people are blind when it comes to stating such silly proposals; would removing content entirely ushering in all those unhappy players solve the existing problems in YOUR preferred game mode that is “real WvW”?

.

Why not? Anet just did that with legendry weapons as a trade for Living story. And they did not even ask the players.

I’m just glad this is a topic and it getting talked about before some drastic just happens… again…

Ow boy this again.

“Another game mode is more popular than the game mode i want to enjoy, so we need to remove it/make it less appealing so people come play my prefered game mode”

Just paraphrasing this stupid suggestion. Don’t make EotM worst, make Borderlands better.

Nyta.4769:

Jana.6831:

That Diamond player was an EotM player – No wvw player has got a Diamond rank and if, I shouldn’t be able to beat them.

Loads of regular wvw players have diamond ranks, so no idea what on earth you’re talking about. Saw them and upper mithril all the time back when I was in t1 a year-ish ago. I’m in t2 now, and barely touch wvw at all anymore, but when I do, I still see at least one each time. I have noticed that most of the rank 1k+ players have either quit the game or quit the format, though. Most enemy groups I see now are just bronze/silver with a few golds, when they used to be silver/gold/plat with a few mithril and diamonds. So maybe that’s where your confusion’s coming from.

If you chose to quote and refer to me at least read what I wrote: A “natural” diamond rank in wvw won’t be killed with 2 strikes by the weakest class and weakest build in game. In fact the situation was a bit more complicated – I was solo capping their Ncamp which was 250. Not all npcs were dead and he came as an OP mesmer (pre hot) and died to me while his buffed npcs bashed me.
You got plenty of wxp in EotM and still get more than in regular wvw so you will rank up way faster than any regular wvw player and that is sad as in regular wvw it’s usually some sort of skill indicator but now it’s “oh a ridiculously high rank = easy kill” because those are most likely EotM players.

I have a dream: a reworked eotm (less edges and pve) which would function as “borderland”, with DBL as 2nd BL and Alpine BL as third BL and, of course, EBG.

Jana, I’ve known several diamonds who didn’t get it from eotm. Some of whom I rarely saw in groups larger than 10, and often enough smaller than that. One I have no idea when or how he got it, since most of the time I saw him online from mithril until diamond, he was dueling in EB/OS or watching/participating in gvgs. I rarely saw him in eotm until after he reached diamond (and even then, he wasn’t with the blob; he was in a group of ~10 harassing blobs to kill boredom.)

As for the rest of your post, most of it’s irrelevant. I was responding to your statement that “no wvw player has got a diamond rank.” But since a lack of response to the rest of what you said got you in a huff before . . . Most diamonds I know got to diamond almost exclusively playing one class. So if I were to randomly guess at how someone could get diamond in wvw without being good at a particular class, that’s the reason I would guess: they decided to go off-class for a change of pace. Whether that goes for that one particular person you fought, I don’t know nor do I care. I’m just saying your statement’s rather ignorant. You’re getting upset over something that shouldn’t even concern you, so it comes across more as jealousy.

Sich.7103:

I don’t like eotm, but don’t remove this, a lot of player like it…

A lot of players on SFR and those coloured with SFR like it. Good luck if you are not.

Removing EotM at this point won’t have any effect as on EU it’s pretty much SFR doing it. (I have been away from EotM but I assume SFR still dominates)

Dayra.7405:

Do you really believe that anyone playing EotM for PvE-rewards would play WvW? So should your pre-justice be true, no one from EotM would go to WvW.

I agree with you totally. let people get their loot/exp/karma, in fact give them a bit of a boost on the Exp and Karma, but EotM should not reward Wxp, or Badges.

STIHL.2489:

Dayra.7405:

Do you really believe that anyone playing EotM for PvE-rewards would play WvW? So should your pre-justice be true, no one from EotM would go to WvW.

I agree with you totally. let people get their loot/exp/karma, in fact give them a bit of a boost on the Exp and Karma, but EotM should not reward Wxp, or Badges.

It’s a pvp zone and the progress and rewards are appropriate. What you are asking for is akin to removing progress from hot join spvp and keeping it only in ranked. That’s not a logical thing to do, and thankfully our devs are much more rational than that.

FogLeg.9354:

I don’t know how to explain the situation to players blindly defending EotM. But I will try once more…

WvW makes sense only if there is enough players to fight in all 3 servers, in most times, in every map. Without enemies its boring and even those who log in to check it will leave soon. All the players in EotM are potential WvW players who have not only left their own server empty but have also ruined the WvW for other 2 servers because they chose to not fight opponents and instead join mindless karma train in huge blob in amap that has no other purpose except to endlessly farm stuff.

What you EotM-lovers misunderstand is the cause and effect. You claim people go to EotM because WvW is boring, meaning boring and empty WvW is the cause and so many players in EotM is the effect. Which is completely wrong. People go to EotM because it offers same rewards for much less work, and so having easy way to avoid any real WvW is the cause. Empty and boring WvW is the effect of having EotM because players in EotM are not in WvW.

Game provides 2 very similar game systems that have same rewards but one requires you to fight many skillful enemies who are very tough to kill and often kill you first. While the other system only asks for simple tag-following, providing same rewards in much faster rate, and without any fair of ever bumping into those pesky enemy players. Yes, many players will choose the easy way. Yes, they will like it very much. Of course they will jump out and shout loudly at everyone asking to nerf their unfair rewards. It still must be nerfed. Every game must constantly cut off farming spots with way too good reward/effort/time rate and EotM is just one big fat farming spot. Its popularity is not the reason to keep it in the game, but good indication of just how much damage it does to the game.

EXACTLY!!! YAY!

Swagger.1459:

STIHL.2489:

Dayra.7405:

Do you really believe that anyone playing EotM for PvE-rewards would play WvW? So should your pre-justice be true, no one from EotM would go to WvW.

I agree with you totally. let people get their loot/exp/karma, in fact give them a bit of a boost on the Exp and Karma, but EotM should not reward Wxp, or Badges.

It’s a pvp zone and the progress and rewards are appropriate. What you are asking for is akin to removing progress from hot join spvp and keeping it only in ranked. That’s not a logical thing to do, and thankfully our devs are much more rational than that.

Actually, sPvP is a great example of what I am saying being implemented with success. The Amber to Diamond ranks in sPvP are only part of Ranked Play. Honestly I loved the fact that they made “Ranked” have it’s own things going on with it that are totally separate from Hot Join, while they are similar, they are not the same.

I would have loved to see them expand upon that, with special Ranked Reward Tracks, that were unique to ranked play. That gave Ranked players, Equal, yet, different things to enjoy and take pride in. Like “Amber Reward Track” or “Diamond Reward Track”, nothing major, just a little something to set them apart from each other. I could also see special Hot Join Only Tracks. That reward should work in both directions.

I would love to see that same kind of process be applied to WvW/Eotm. If they could expand a system like that, where WvW had it’s own kind of Ranking System, seperate from EotM, it’s own special reward tracks and currency, that set is apart from EotM, in the same way Ranked was set apart from Hot Join, I would get behind that as well.

While I think that would be a lot of work, and it would be so much easier to simply remove Wxp and badges from EotM and generate pretty much the same effect, I could get behind some other kind of system that set them apart from each other the same way Ranked and Hot Join are set apart.

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

STIHL.2489:

Dayra.7405:

Do you really believe that anyone playing EotM for PvE-rewards would play WvW? So should your pre-justice be true, no one from EotM would go to WvW.

I agree with you totally. let people get their loot/exp/karma, in fact give them a bit of a boost on the Exp and Karma, but EotM should not reward Wxp, or Badges.

It’s a pvp zone and the progress and rewards are appropriate. What you are asking for is akin to removing progress from hot join spvp and keeping it only in ranked. That’s not a logical thing to do, and thankfully our devs are much more rational than that.

Actually, sPvP is a great example of what I am saying being implemented with success. The Amber to Diamond ranks in sPvP are only part of Ranked Play. Honestly I loved the fact that they made “Ranked” have it’s own things going on with it that are totally separate from Hot Join, while they are similar, they are not the same.

I would have loved to see them expand upon that, with special Ranked Reward Tracks, that were unique to ranked play. That gave Ranked players, Equal, yet, different things to enjoy and take pride in. Like “Amber Reward Track” or “Diamond Reward Track”, nothing major, just a little something to set them apart from each other. I could also see special Hot Join Only Tracks. That reward should work in both directions.

I would love to see that same kind of process be applied to WvW/Eotm. If they could expand a system like that, where WvW had it’s own kind of Ranking System, seperate from EotM, it’s own special reward tracks and currency, that set is apart from EotM, in the same way Ranked was set apart from Hot Join, I would get behind that as well.

While I think that would be a lot of work, and it would be so much easier to simply remove Wxp and badges from EotM and generate pretty much the same effect, I could get behind some other kind of system that set them apart from each other the same way Ranked and Hot Join are set apart.

WvW will have tournaments again with tournament rewards, that’s the separation.

Swagger.1459:

WvW will have tournaments again with tournament rewards, that’s the separation.

Not enough.

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

WvW will have tournaments again with tournament rewards, that’s the separation.

Not enough.

Sorry.

Dayra.7405:

WvW will not be able to fill its 36 (EU) + 32 (NA) Maps with or without EotM-player.

So yes there aren’t enough players for WvW anymore, but my conclusion is give up WvW it’s time has passed by. Do not touch the only halfway working game mode, where you can find enemies to fight due to it’s superior design, namely the dynamic number of maps. EoM works better than WvW, not because has many more player, but because it only has as many maps as are needed to fit the players.

I absolutely agree, there are too many servers for the number of players who currently play WvW. But the WvW does not have to have those EXACT number of servers, it could be less when there are less players and hopefully more when players swarm back into WvW because it go fixed up (I can hope). In best system I think number of servers should change fairly quickly, new servers could be formed or old ones divided.

I also do not think WvW requires exactly 4 maps in every match. Lower tiers could do very well with just 1 single maps. Or the maps could be opening/closing based on time and number players currently logging into match. Having less maps means servers with lower population find more fights.

These changes do not require closing WvW and they are not specific to EotM.

Dayra.7405:

Do you really believe that anyone playing EotM for PvE-rewards would play WvW? So should your pre-justice be true, no one from EotM would go to WvW.

Again, I do agree with you in some ways. If EotM would be shut, many EotM players would not go to WvW. They would go to SW or some other PvE farming map. And that is fine, as they would probably not enjoy WvW anyway.

But some would still go to WvW, and we need everyone back

Also, if the only way to gather some items required for legendaries, or to finish map completion, or to gain some title, would be only by playing WvW, I will assure you – players will play WvW. Same way many WvW players are forced to grind through PvE maps just to get guild upgrades.

And, if you think keeping EotM, and shutting down WvW, is good plan, consider how many WvW players will go to new and fancy EotM-only gamemode. I mean, these are the same players who have avoided EotM all the time it has been available so far. These are the players who have sticked to their OWN server even when it is losing, these players have been building communities around the server identity literally years. Not sure if you know the feeling but the server is more then just name, it is our own thing, players spend time and money taking care of it, helping it, defending it. It could be small and weak but its OURS.

And that is missing from EotM. It belongs to nobody. Noone cares if one side wins or loses.

Nyta.4769:

snip

Those very high ranks I’ve seen in wvw were easy kills – I saw one of them for some weeks and he was always playing the same class and was always an easy kill. I’m running around with all of my alts (which I usually faceroll as I can’t really play them) and I’m never that easy to kill.
I don’t doubt that there’s very high ranks in wvw as well, without EotM it’s a hell of a lot more work which was my point.
Even if you farm people in EotM, because you know how to play, you rank up way faster than in usual wvw, because people in wvw are there to fight and not to farm PvE mobs.
I’m in no way jealous, my own rank is high enough, just that it isn’t worth anything thanks to EotM. It’s just like you did your PHD and someone else got it for free.
I’m not upset I find it unfair and useless. Which wasn’t the intend when EotM was launched, granted, but anet should’ve looked into it a long time ago and should look into it now again.

Edit: Grammar

Frenk.5917:

I have a dream: a reworked eotm (less edges and pve) which would function as “borderland”, with DBL as 2nd BL and Alpine BL as third BL and, of course, EBG.

Concur, said it before, saying it again.

WvW: 1 EB, 1 EoTM, 1 ABL (three-sided design), 1 DBL (three-sided design).

What does this do:

• Gives people that like flat maps, 2 maps
• Gives people that like chokes and edges, 2 maps
• Rolls EoTM into WvW for scoring and population
• Doesn’t please any one side completely, meaning a little for all but not all for 1
• Adds variety for people to choose from as far as maps

Now how they handle EoTM as far as just your server versus all, that requires further discussion and if they end up rolling the servers up in some new system we hear about in a few weeks or if they consolidate servers.

Jana.6831:

Nyta.4769:

snip

Those very high ranks I’ve seen in wvw were easy kills

WvW ranks effectively means nothing in regards to fighting. Its how long have you grinded a game mode. Unless people can lose ranks, its meaningless for the most part.

TheGrimm.5624:

Frenk.5917:

I have a dream: a reworked eotm (less edges and pve) which would function as “borderland”, with DBL as 2nd BL and Alpine BL as third BL and, of course, EBG.

Concur, said it before, saying it again.

WvW: 1 EB, 1 EoTM, 1 ABL (three-sided design), 1 DBL (three-sided design).

What does this do:

• Gives people that like flat maps, 2 maps
• Gives people that like chokes and edges, 2 maps
• Rolls EoTM into WvW for scoring and population
• Doesn’t please any one side completely, meaning a little for all but not all for 1
• Adds variety for people to choose from as far as maps

Now how they handle EoTM as far as just your server versus all, that requires further discussion and if they end up rolling the servers up in some new system we hear about in a few weeks or if they consolidate servers.

The absolut majority of WvW players have already voted. They don’t want Desert Border or EotM or any other map in that style. They want a map were fighting is possible without gimmicks and stupid environmental effects.

Let’s see how those announced reward changes are developed. After that the farm caravan will look for the next best oportunity.

Swagger.1459:

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

WvW will have tournaments again with tournament rewards, that’s the separation.

Not enough.

Sorry.

“We might do something at some later date.. maybe”

You know, when you give people a big pile of kitten to eat, you could at least try to make it sound appealing. Yah, just remove the Wxp and Badges and call this done.

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

WvW will have tournaments again with tournament rewards, that’s the separation.

Not enough.

Sorry.

“We might do something at some later date.. maybe”

You know, when you give people a big pile of kitten to eat, you could at least try to make it sound appealing. Yah, just remove the Wxp and Badges and call this done.

I’m sorry, that won’t happen. It would not have the net positive outcome you think it will.

WvW has to stand on its own, just like raids and everything else in game.

WvW is broken, we all know it’s gone to kitten. A complete overhaul is needed to fix it.

I personally won’t mind spending some time in EotM if EB or the BLs are dead, just to get my wvw fix. Would any of you say that I am what’s wrong with wvw? Even if there is some activity on EB, but we die constantly from an enemy blob, that would discourage me from wanting to stay there…I don’t find that fun. That slippery slope effect, where people get discouraged and quit, is the ultimate problem to server population.

Because there are no real rewards, and because war score and rank mean absolutely nothing, there is nothing motivating players to stay and fight a losing battle.

Swagger.1459:

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

WvW will have tournaments again with tournament rewards, that’s the separation.

Not enough.

Sorry.

“We might do something at some later date.. maybe”

You know, when you give people a big pile of kitten to eat, you could at least try to make it sound appealing. Yah, just remove the Wxp and Badges and call this done.

I’m sorry, that won’t happen. It would not have the net positive outcome you think it will.

WvW has to stand on its own, just like raids and everything else in game.

Excuse me, it’s not your place to say what will or won’t happen, unless you are the Head Developer for WvW, and this just happens to be some incognito account of yours.

Now if you are the Head Developer, and seem willing to have discussions on the forums, what’s your plan to Fix WvW, and deal with the many legitimate issues that the many other posters have brought up?

If you are not a Head Developer at Anet in Charge of WvW , spare us what you say will or will not happen as you have no knowledge or control of that, and instead return to discussing the merits of Why you think it my proposal would not have the effect I think it would. and what would your proposal be?

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

WvW will have tournaments again with tournament rewards, that’s the separation.

Not enough.

Sorry.

“We might do something at some later date.. maybe”

You know, when you give people a big pile of kitten to eat, you could at least try to make it sound appealing. Yah, just remove the Wxp and Badges and call this done.

I’m sorry, that won’t happen. It would not have the net positive outcome you think it will.

WvW has to stand on its own, just like raids and everything else in game.

Excuse me, it’s not your place to say what will or won’t happen, unless you are the Head Developer for WvW, and this just happens to be some incognito account of yours.

Now if you are the Head Developer, and seem willing to have discussions on the forums, what’s your plan to Fix WvW, and deal with the many legitimate issues that the many other posters have brought up?

If you are not a Head Developer at Anet in Charge of WvW , spare us what you say will or will not happen as you have no knowledge or control of that, and instead return to discussing the merits of Why you think it my proposal would not have the effect I think it would. and what would your proposal be?

I’m sorry, but the devs are not going to remove wxp or badges from eotm. That progression and reward system has been there since day 1.

Unfortunately your ideas to remove certain things from eotm do not have merit and I gave my rational reasons why.

I have been discussing this subject and provided my input.

Horrid suggestions, just horrid. EotM has become a mode unto itself and should stay as it is. If a player chose EotM over WvW, it was for a reason. If you think you can “force” them to play on a BL, then that’s hilariously illogical.

If your only suggestions in a video game are along the lines of “take from them so I feel better”, then you really should examine why.

TheGrimm.5624:

Frenk.5917:

I have a dream: a reworked eotm (less edges and pve) which would function as “borderland”, with DBL as 2nd BL and Alpine BL as third BL and, of course, EBG.

Concur, said it before, saying it again.

WvW: 1 EB, 1 EoTM, 1 ABL (three-sided design), 1 DBL (three-sided design).

What does this do:

• Gives people that like flat maps, 2 maps
• Gives people that like chokes and edges, 2 maps
• Rolls EoTM into WvW for scoring and population
• Doesn’t please any one side completely, meaning a little for all but not all for 1
• Adds variety for people to choose from as far as maps

Now how they handle EoTM as far as just your server versus all, that requires further discussion and if they end up rolling the servers up in some new system we hear about in a few weeks or if they consolidate servers.

Tis my dream as well. More choice is always the right answer.

As for what the “majority” of WvW players think they “voted” for on the type of map they rather fight on . . . well excuse me if I don’t buy that steaming pile. When given only an either or option what would you expect after the DBL fail and really what % of the population were even in on that conversation?

No, it makes absolutely no sense to limit the flavors of maps. There’s plenty about the EotM game type is make a lot people happy. All different playstyles should be considered equally valid and then everyone slowly comes to realize we need each other, people with like and opposite view points to make this ship sail. I feel like I’ve been stuck in a time loop since 2003 constantly reliving the hardcore 8v8 vs casual zerg debate from DAoC days. Guys . . . guys it can really all be rainbows and unicorns chasing butterflies if we just get along and share the dream.

PariahX.6970:

TheGrimm.5624:

Frenk.5917:

I have a dream: a reworked eotm (less edges and pve) which would function as “borderland”, with DBL as 2nd BL and Alpine BL as third BL and, of course, EBG.

Concur, said it before, saying it again.

WvW: 1 EB, 1 EoTM, 1 ABL (three-sided design), 1 DBL (three-sided design).

What does this do:

• Gives people that like flat maps, 2 maps
• Gives people that like chokes and edges, 2 maps
• Rolls EoTM into WvW for scoring and population
• Doesn’t please any one side completely, meaning a little for all but not all for 1
• Adds variety for people to choose from as far as maps

Now how they handle EoTM as far as just your server versus all, that requires further discussion and if they end up rolling the servers up in some new system we hear about in a few weeks or if they consolidate servers.

Tis my dream as well. More choice is always the right answer.

As for what the “majority” of WvW players think they “voted” for on the type of map they rather fight on . . . well excuse me if I don’t buy that steaming pile. When given only an either or option what would you expect after the DBL fail and really what % of the population were even in on that conversation?

No, it makes absolutely no sense to limit the flavors of maps. There’s plenty about the EotM game type is make a lot people happy. All different playstyles should be considered equally valid and then everyone slowly comes to realize we need each other, people with like and opposite view points to make this ship sail. I feel like I’ve been stuck in a time loop since 2003 constantly reliving the hardcore 8v8 vs casual zerg debate from DAoC days. Guys . . . guys it can really all be rainbows and unicorns chasing butterflies if we just get along and share the dream.

+1 both of you.

More maps = More options. Let people play on the maps they want to play on. If you hate DBL, then just go play on ABL. Instead of just shutting everyone off from all other maps.

Swagger.1459:

I’m sorry, but the devs are not going to remove wxp or badges from eotm.

How do you know this? I would like to know what exact sources you are using to know what the Devs will and will not do?

That progression and reward system has been there since day 1.

As I learned, the entire Wxp is a relative new thing, like within the last 2 years, So, it’s also gone under a total revamp thanks to HoT, as such nothing involving Wxp has been there since Day 1.

Also, for the record, They removed the secondary Chest that you used to get in EotM, and that had been there from the start. They can remove anything they want from any game mode.

So yah, they could remove Badges and Wxp from EotM today if they wanted, and there is nothing stopping them.

I have been discussing this subject and provided my input.

While you have been discussing things, but you have not offered any solutions for the current conundrum. In fact, all you have done is try to block other suggestion that try to make the game more rewarding for everyone involved.

Maybe if they removed Wxp from WvW and gave WvW a Mastery System, since WvW has 4 maps, and a Jumping Puzzle, they could easily put enough mastery Points, and link many more to the Achievements. This way, everyone is WvW would simply be an Invader or Defender again.

Perhaps that would be the ideal solution and allow EotM to keep their Wxp Ranks.

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

I’m sorry, but the devs are not going to remove wxp or badges from eotm.

How do you know this? I would like to know what exact sources you are using to know what the Devs will and will not do?

That progression and reward system has been there since day 1.

As I learned, the entire Wxp is a relative new thing, like within the last 2 years, So, it’s also gone under a total revamp thanks to HoT, as such nothing involving Wxp has been there since Day 1.

Also, for the record, They removed the secondary Chest that you used to get in EotM, and that had been there from the start. They can remove anything they want from any game mode.

So yah, they could remove Badges and Wxp from EotM today if they wanted, and there is nothing stopping them.

I have been discussing this subject and provided my input.

While you have been discussing things, but you have not offered any solutions for the current conundrum. In fact, all you have done is try to block other suggestion that try to make the game more rewarding for everyone involved.

Maybe if they removed Wxp from WvW and gave WvW a Mastery System, since WvW has 4 maps, and a Jumping Puzzle, they could easily put enough mastery Points, and link many more to the Achievements. This way, everyone is WvW would simply be an Invader or Defender again.

Perhaps that would be the ideal solution and allow EotM to keep their Wxp Ranks.

The devs are not going to remove what you want them to remove…

Removing a chest is different than completely removing progress and currency. It’s a pvp mode and these things are appropriate.

You are free to reread my posts for my input and look at my post history to find more suggestions to improve the game. Also, this “conundrum” has been discussed ad nauseam, and obviously the devs are bringing in live beta this month.

I’m sorry, but this doesn’t make any sense honestly….

“all you have done is try to block other suggestion that try to make the game more rewarding for everyone involved.”

You’re the one suggesting removing pvp progress and pvp currency from a pvp zone… My suggestion is for equal rewards. Your suggestion is the opposite of making “the game more rewarding for everyone involved”.

Those people playing EOTM are not interested in wvw anyway. Remove it sure but you wont see an influx all of a sudden. Pretty selfish to suggest to remove it.

Swagger.1459:

The devs are not going to remove what you want them to remove

Sure they will. It’s the path of least resistance.

You are free to reread my posts for my input and look at my post history to find more suggestions to improve the game.

I’ve read your input, in this topic. Not a single suggestion, all you have said is EotM is fine just the way it is.

“all you have done is try to block other suggestion that try to make the game more rewarding for everyone involved.”

You’re the one suggesting removing pvp progress and pvp currency from a pvp zone… My suggestion is for equal rewards. Your suggestion is the opposite of making “the game more rewarding for everyone involved”.

Originally on the many other topics that address this same issue, I suggested that EotM only give Wxp and badges for PvP interaction.

But, even if I was to placate your need to leave EotM alone, WvW still needs something more to make it attractive.

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

The devs are not going to remove what you want them to remove

Sure they will. It’s the path of least resistance.

You are free to reread my posts for my input and look at my post history to find more suggestions to improve the game.

I’ve read your input, in this topic. Not a single suggestion, all you have said is EotM is fine just the way it is.

“all you have done is try to block other suggestion that try to make the game more rewarding for everyone involved.”

You’re the one suggesting removing pvp progress and pvp currency from a pvp zone… My suggestion is for equal rewards. Your suggestion is the opposite of making “the game more rewarding for everyone involved”.

Originally on the many other topics that address this same issue, I suggested that EotM only give Wxp and badges for PvP interaction.

But, even if I was to placate your need to leave EotM alone, WvW still needs something more to make it attractive.

I’m not obligated to provide “suggestions”, nor is it required. I provided my input and am free to comment as I see fit for this ongoing discussion. You may look for all my suggestions in my post history if you wish to find pvp problem solving suggestions.

Ok, well, everything in eotm is pvp related and in this thread you wanted them removed. All of your suggestions are unreasonable and do not improve pvp overall. Your suggestions would be similar to cutting out stuff from fractals in hopes more players will do raids. I’ll let you think about that.

The devs are dropping beta this month to show us how they are going to make pvp attractive.

Swagger.1459:

I’m not obligated to provide “suggestions”, nor is it required.

You’re right, You’re not required to think of solutions, or suggestions, but, here is the thing about life. If someone propose a solution to a problem, no matter how bad that solution may be, it is still Infinitely better then anything the person who does not propose a solution has to offer. That is why, when people see things get implemented, they wonder how this could happen. Well it happens, because no one puts out a better solution, and a bad solution is still a solution. To say “your solution is bad” you could right, but it’s still a solution.

Ok, well, everything in eotm is pvp related and in this thread you wanted them removed. All of your suggestions are unreasonable and do not improve pvp overall. Your suggestions would be similar to cutting out stuff from fractals in hopes more players will do raids. I’ll let you think about that.

Oh please, my suggestion is nothing so melodramatic. It is akin to removing gaining Exp towards progressing from Bunny to Dragon rank in sPvP by doing Hot Join, and requiring Ranked to make progress. Currently you gain More Exp towards your Ranks loosing in a Ranked Arena then winning in a Hot Join. I don’t see the Legions of Angry Mobs about this, and would anyone really be upset if you needed to do Ranked sPvP to gain Ranks in sPvP?

Outside of sPvP, the ranks are meaningless, and even inside sPvP they are just fluff.

Same with WvW ranks really. EotM is a pointless time passer, people go there for the loot and exp, regardless of what you may say about other methods, people are only going to EotM for the Rewards, fast, easy Exp and Loot, minimal stress or requirements to be even remotely outfitted, I level there in outfits so people can’t see that I have like no gear on. But EotM serves a purpose, it’s a wonderful and fun place where you can level an alt, get a ton of bags, and buckets of karma all at the same time along with 20+ other people who are also there for the low stress fun, which You can’t get in SW, or by doing Fractal 40.

Since it’s just a playground for leveling alts and pve loot farming with a quintessential wvw feel to it, which is what it was from it’s inception and what it remains to be today, wouldn’t it be better to just max rank everyone as opposed to even having Wxp awarded at all?

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

I’m not obligated to provide “suggestions”, nor is it required.

You’re right, You’re not required to think of solutions, or suggestions, but, here is the thing about life. If someone propose a solution to a problem, no matter how bad that solution may be, it is still Infinitely better then anything the person who does not propose a solution has to offer. That is why, when people see things get implemented, they wonder how this could happen. Well it happens, because no one puts out a better solution, and a bad solution is still a solution. To say “your solution is bad” you could right, but it’s still a solution.

Ok, well, everything in eotm is pvp related and in this thread you wanted them removed. All of your suggestions are unreasonable and do not improve pvp overall. Your suggestions would be similar to cutting out stuff from fractals in hopes more players will do raids. I’ll let you think about that.

Oh please, my suggestion is nothing so melodramatic. It is akin to removing gaining Exp towards progressing from Bunny to Dragon rank in sPvP by doing Hot Join, and requiring Ranked to make progress. Currently you gain More Exp towards your Ranks loosing in a Ranked Arena then winning in a Hot Join. I don’t see the Legions of Angry Mobs about this, and would anyone really be upset if you needed to do Ranked sPvP to gain Ranks in sPvP?

Outside of sPvP, the ranks are meaningless, and even inside sPvP they are just fluff.

Same with WvW ranks really. EotM is a pointless time passer, people go there for the loot and exp, regardless of what you may say about other methods, people are only going to EotM for the Rewards, fast, easy Exp and Loot, minimal stress or requirements to be even remotely outfitted, I level there in outfits so people can’t see that I have like no gear on. But EotM serves a purpose, it’s a wonderful and fun place where you can level an alt, get a ton of bags, and buckets of karma all at the same time along with 20+ other people who are also there for the low stress fun, which You can’t get in SW, or by doing Fractal 40.

Since it’s just a playground for leveling alts and pve loot farming with a quintessential wvw feel to it, which is what it was from it’s inception and what it remains to be today, wouldn’t it be better to just max rank everyone as opposed to even having Wxp awarded at all?

Thank you. Yes, I am correct. Again, you are free to look up my suggestions if you wish for that. Many of us have been here for years providing suggestions and we will see some of that input in action during live beta.

Bolded part… Ok, if stuff like that is not a big deal, then feel free to post that bolded part in the spvp section and see how well your similar suggestion works out there. You’ll be told that your suggestion is counterproductive and not logical.

You like to generalize. Eotm is a pvp zone with customers playing what they enjoy. The progress and rewards rightfully match what is being offered on this side of the game currently.

I believe you should look at things in a broader sense and come up with suggestions that build up pvp as a whole.

Silverstone.4539:

I think I see more people in EoTM than I do in WvW maps.

EoTM is sucking WvW population.

And removing it is going to be a good thing how? If more people want to play eotm, what makes you think they’d want to even keep playing the game if eotm is removed? That’s like saying Orr has more people than Gendarran Fields so Orr needs to be removed.

Swagger.1459:

Again, you are free to look up my suggestions if you wish for that.

nahh, at this point I am just going to assume that you don’t have anything worth repeating, or you would have repeated it.

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

Again, you are free to look up my suggestions if you wish for that.

nahh, at this point I am just going to assume that you don’t have anything worth repeating, or you would have repeated it.

I’m not here to personally indulge you.

Your suggestions have zero merit.

The devs are dropping a patch soon off of feedback from years ago when you didn’t even play the game…

Overall it seems you have very little understanding of gw2 or gaming in general given your suggestions.

STIHL.2489:

Since it’s just a playground for leveling alts and pve loot farming with a quintessential wvw feel to it, which is what it was from it’s inception and what it remains to be today, wouldn’t it be better to just max rank everyone as opposed to even having Wxp awarded at all?

What about those who enjoy the fast pace fights? Why are you so against Wxp and rewards in EoTM? My server is T8 23rd place! This may clue you in why I enjoy EoTM.

The solution to the wvw problems is not to remove an aspect that is clearly popular among players but to make core wvw more appealing. Complaining that eotm is too popular and therefor ruining your version of wvw is short sighted and just silly. Right now if all they did was remove eotm, people would still have the same complaints about the current state of wvw. Throwing more players into the mix might make lower tier servers more active but people will still complain about BLs. Tactics will remain the same. Nothing changes except that there are some queues on servers that didnt have them before. A band aid fix that would probably not go over well with a large portion of the community. Forcing players in doesnt make the gametype better. Fix the gametype, make it rewarding and the players will show up.

EotM should never have been put in the game. They further messed up by making the rewards so much better than WvW, all while giving the same type of rewards.

EotM is not WvW. I don’t think it should not give WvW rewards. Let it give EMxp and EM-Badges or something.

Even though it should never have been in the game, it is pointless to ask for it to be removed – Anet will never do that. But separating it from WvW rewards is a good idea. Or better yet, I do like the idea of incorporating the EotM map into WvW.

I actually like EoTM more then the WvW map in it current state, I really feel they should consider making that map part of WvW proper…

Aezyr.5304:

The absolut majority of WvW players have already voted. They don’t want Desert Border or EotM or any other map in that style. They want a map were fighting is possible without gimmicks and stupid environmental effects.

Actually no, we had less than 1 servers population voice up since there was nothing posted in game. Unless we think there are less than 600 people playing WvW in total. And if that’s the case we might want to close up some of those servers and merge into 3. So you want to start up a server merge thread, see you there.

TheGrimm.5624:

Actually no, we had less than 1 servers population voice up since there was nothing posted in game. Unless we think there are less than 600 people playing WvW in total. And if that’s the case we might want to close up some of those servers and merge into 3. So you want to start up a server merge thread, see you there.

Anet has got the metrics and wvw is dying all around since HoT – so I guess the assumption that “we” don’t want DBL is accurate.
They also have the metrics how many people play EotM and WvW and I guess that again shows that WvW players don’t want EotM.
You don’t need to be on the forums to have a voice.

Jana.6831:

Anet has got the metrics and wvw is dying all around since HoT – so I guess the assumption that “we” don’t want DBL is accurate.
They also have the metrics how many people play EotM and WvW and I guess that again shows that WvW players don’t want EotM.
You don’t need to be on the forums to have a voice.

What we don’t have is the normal rate of decay and I don’t think any players captured that prior to HoT. Another I would love to see from ANet was EB vs borderland stats from before, I can only state what I experienced. As far as ANet metrics, not sure they have shared any. Would love to see them but from a pure geeky curiosity, but it would be a bad business practice for them to do so. Which leaves all of us speculating. If you have a link, please do share.

TheGrimm.5624:

What we don’t have is the normal rate of decay and I don’t think any players captured that prior to HoT. Another I would love to see from ANet was EB vs borderland stats from before, I can only state what I experienced. As far as ANet metrics, not sure they have shared any. Would love to see them but from a pure geeky curiosity, but it would be a bad business practice for them to do so. Which leaves all of us speculating. If you have a link, please do share.

I play the game, I have friends on a lot of servers, I play against other servers and since I’m EU it’s always different servers. To pretend that wvw isn’t dying is naive.
Of course you won’t see all of this when you’re playing EotM with its megaserver.
Wvw has got more problems than the DBLs – it has been neglected for too long and HoT was the breaking point.
If we all love EotM or the DBLs that much we’d play them – we don’t: only halfway populated map I’ve seen in the past 6 months from T6 to T1 was EB.