Guild Wars 2

Jana.6831:

That Diamond player was an EotM player – No wvw player has got a Diamond rank

just b/c u havent seen one yet doesnt mean there aint any lol. Plent of ppl have reached Diamond only doing WvW.

Taxidriver.2043:

Jana.6831:

That Diamond player was an EotM player – No wvw player has got a Diamond rank

just b/c u havent seen one yet doesnt mean there aint any lol. Plent of ppl have reached Diamond only doing WvW.

Why did you edit:

Jana.6831:

and if, I shouldn’t be able to beat them.

out?
So yeah, I don’t think I know any real wvw player that has got a diamond rank, not even one commander who raids every night for 5 hours since launch.
I guess somewhere there are some diamond ranks, but those I’ve met so far have done that in EotM as all of them were easy kills.

Jana.6831:

I play the game, I have friends on a lot of servers, I play against other servers and since I’m EU it’s always different servers. To pretend that wvw isn’t dying is naive.
Of course you won’t see all of this when you’re playing EotM with its megaserver.
Wvw has got more problems than the DBLs – it has been neglected for too long and HoT was the breaking point.
If we all love EotM or the DBLs that much we’d play them – we don’t: only halfway populated map I’ve seen in the past 6 months from T6 to T1 was EB.

Nobody is arguing if WvW is dying or not. But none of us knows the actual cause, we can all guess but we could be all wrong.

I have argued against this already several times. The empty DBL is not the cause for less players, there would be less players no matter what kind of map is used. Empty BL maps just show us the reducing WvW population.

If match has enough WvW players for only 1 map, they all go to EB no matter if BL maps are good or bad. So the BL maps itself does not affect how many players play WvW. Players can say they don’t like the map design or how objectives are placed or what color the sand is. But none of this would matter if there would be enemies to fight, you simply would have no time to notice any of that, you would be busy fighting. You never go to WvW because you “like” the map.

The cause WvW is not interesting or fun, and players leave the game, is not map design and it can not be fixed by changing BL maps. The time and effort Anet is spending to replace the maps back, is all completely wasted.

FogLeg.9354:

Nobody is arguing if WvW is dying or not. But none of us knows the actual cause, we can all guess but we could be all wrong.

I guess I know more about that than anet.
Some of my friends left because the ABL was their “home”. Some left because they couldn’t stand the power creep introduced in June and with HoT anymore. Some left because the balance sucks, some left because there was nothing left to fight on the DBLs, some left because they couldn’t play this game like they used to and so on.
We now have only enough people for one map, yes, but that was different when HoT launched – back then we’ve had a queue of 50 to EB (T6 EU) – yesterday we’ve had a queue of 9 and that was the first queue I saw in a while.
And I already said (you actually quoted it) : “Wvw has got more problems than the DBLs – it has been neglected for too long and HoT was the breaking point.”
We might have been able to stomach the DBLs if there was communication between anet and us, if changes to the maps structure had been made a lot sooner, if class and zergbalance weren’t that messed up. It’s fine if you like the DBLs but the majority don’t – the reasons for that are all over the forums.
That being said: Anet adjusted the auto-upgrade stuff – that was a good thing. And in my opinion the auto upgrades should’ve come long before HoT/DBLs because they still need adjustments but it’s very hard to tell how exactly since everything else is unbalanced.

FogLeg.9354:

Nobody is arguing if WvW is dying or not. But none of us knows the actual cause, we can all guess but we could be all wrong.

I have argued against this already several times. The empty DBL is not the cause for less players, there would be less players no matter what kind of map is used. Empty BL maps just show us the reducing WvW population.

If match has enough WvW players for only 1 map, they all go to EB no matter if BL maps are good or bad. So the BL maps itself does not affect how many players play WvW. Players can say they don’t like the map design or how objectives are placed or what color the sand is. But none of this would matter if there would be enemies to fight, you simply would have no time to notice any of that, you would be busy fighting. You never go to WvW because you “like” the map.

The cause WvW is not interesting or fun, and players leave the game, is not map design and it can not be fixed by changing BL maps. The time and effort Anet is spending to replace the maps back, is all completely wasted.

This.

The maps are not going to be silver bullets. And what some of us are saying is don’t steal from Peter to pay Paul. There are two sides here, one saying give us less options and force people into a way and the other saying give us more options and let us choose. Leave it with 4 maps, but make it 4 different maps not 2 maps, 1 having three exact copies.

Either way I would still expect more player decline. That is natural in games. Its up to ANet to agree and either roll up some servers or determine another way to mix the current populations together. No company likes to close servers but it happens over time. If you wait too long you further bleed population.

Jana.6831:

only halfway populated map I’ve seen in the past 6 months from T6 to T1 was EB.

I have yet to see a consistent case where EB does not have the majority of players on it. Even when ABL were in play. People have different theories on why that is , but I haven’t seen anyone dispute that one.

TheGrimm.5624:

Jana.6831:

only halfway populated map I’ve seen in the past 6 months from T6 to T1 was EB.

I have yet to see a consistent case where EB does not have the majority of players on it. Even when ABL were in play. People have different theories on why that is , but I haven’t seen anyone dispute that one.

It was the playground of gvg guilds (serious play no gvg).

Jana.6831:

TheGrimm.5624:

Jana.6831:

only halfway populated map I’ve seen in the past 6 months from T6 to T1 was EB.

I have yet to see a consistent case where EB does not have the majority of players on it. Even when ABL were in play. People have different theories on why that is , but I haven’t seen anyone dispute that one.

It was the playground of gvg guilds (serious play no gvg).

And still they couldn’t out queue EB. GvG is a third group all together. GvGers should go talk to Anet about bigger guild arenas, they had a whole custom area designed for them. If GvG is your whole issue then ask for that versus say kill this its not what I want. Ask ANet for a map without any objectives at all where people can just get PPK.

TheGrimm.5624:

And still they couldn’t out queue EB. GvG is a third group all together. GvGers should go talk to Anet about bigger guild arenas, they had a whole custom area designed for them. If GvG is your whole issue then ask for that versus say kill this its not what I want. Ask ANet for a map without any objectives at all where people can just get PPK.

We’ve had maybe 5 gvg guilds on our server and they could queue.
As far as I know most gvg guilds have left because the DBLs are really annoying, because all other gvg guilds have quit, and because the balance sucks. Yes and also because the arenas are too small.
But other than that, I’m T6 EU – a lot of people on this forum say that everything below T3 EU is dead and should be merged (yes, I’m chuckling right now) – so we weren’t overly populated to start with.
And I don’t have an issue – I don’t even know what we’re discussing right now.
Yeah it was you guys said that it wasn’t DBLs fault that all players left – they did, they did. DBL was the last straw.

Jana.6831:

And I don’t have an issue – I don’t even know what we’re discussing right now.

I guess we are trying to discuss failures of WvW.

Adding EotM – was that bad idea that drew players away from WvW? – Yes it was, to me.
Were DBL maps so terrible they killed WvW? – I feel they were introduced in very unfortunate HoT package and many players simply got excuse to drop out.

And the length of these discussions show many players feel completely opposite

Silverstone.4539:

Maybe it was needed back in the day, when there was high population in WvW servers. But now, I think I see more people in EoTM than I do in WvW maps.

If Anet are true to their word and want to see WvW good again (i know, a little hard to believe right now), they must consider this.

EoTM is sucking WvW population. More so for the lower tier servers maybe. As you can go there to find more people from more servers. If there is a queue on all WvW maps, then and only then should EoTM be open, and for a shorter time, maybe 2 hours or an hour. If there is no queue for WvW. EoTM should be locked out. We are spreading what little WvW players we still have too thin.

Unless Anet has something new planed to fix the WvW/server population. This would be one way to start.

Legit concern is legit. 90% of worlds are hurt by the overflow.

That’s a good suggestion. EotM should either only be active for worlds having a queue on all wvw borderlands or be a once a week event.
It’s popular because it’s a constant karma train without to have to fight for. It’s like playing silverwastes for wvw rewards. That’s ok if it doesn’t hurt the main game mode, but it does and so there should be a change.

TheGrimm.5624:

FogLeg.9354:

Nobody is arguing if WvW is dying or not. But none of us knows the actual cause, we can all guess but we could be all wrong.

I have argued against this already several times. The empty DBL is not the cause for less players, there would be less players no matter what kind of map is used. Empty BL maps just show us the reducing WvW population.

If match has enough WvW players for only 1 map, they all go to EB no matter if BL maps are good or bad. So the BL maps itself does not affect how many players play WvW. Players can say they don’t like the map design or how objectives are placed or what color the sand is. But none of this would matter if there would be enemies to fight, you simply would have no time to notice any of that, you would be busy fighting. You never go to WvW because you “like” the map.

The cause WvW is not interesting or fun, and players leave the game, is not map design and it can not be fixed by changing BL maps. The time and effort Anet is spending to replace the maps back, is all completely wasted.

This.

The maps are not going to be silver bullets. And what some of us are saying is don’t steal from Peter to pay Paul. There are two sides here, one saying give us less options and force people into a way and the other saying give us more options and let us choose. Leave it with 4 maps, but make it 4 different maps not 2 maps, 1 having three exact copies.

Either way I would still expect more player decline. That is natural in games. Its up to ANet to agree and either roll up some servers or determine another way to mix the current populations together. No company likes to close servers but it happens over time. If you wait too long you further bleed population.

I do not think changing the maps will have an impact on the population issue, at all since the actual point of reverting to ABL was to reverse course on HOT and go in the actual opposite direction, and since the announcement that they are putting tactivators in, I do not know anyone that will return due to that. Yes, ABL will be more populated than the DBL, just due to players being irritated with the actual map terrain of the DBL, but I am afraid they already waited much too long to resolve the core issues ( PPK focused scoring, class balance, reduced siege damage and dependence, reduced PvE, self sustaining Game mode ect) due to the core issues still being a problem this far into the game, it is going to be extremely difficult to bring players back or increase the influx of new players at this point. It would take drastic measures to change the current view of the game and game mode.

What players asked for from the beginning was a large scale PvP game mode that focused and rewarded PvP, not PvE. They refused to unhook it from PvE and treat it as it’s own self sustaining game mode. That was why the players left and why they are still leaving. They still have not resolved the Arrow cart issues that moved the fighting into open field and away from objectives further dividing the community rather than uniting it, nor does it look like they are making those issues top priority. Players who want PvP move on to more PvP focused games and most PvE players do not want players to be able to attack them at all so it isn’t like they are knocking down the doors to replace them.

Say what you will about " terrain" not being the issue with why people stay on EBG, but I had another person tell me again, just a couple of hours ago that was the very reason they do not go to DBL at all, and why they will at least go to ABL when it returns. The truth is Most people go to EBG because it is flat, has direct routes, and they can find their way around the map even after they drank a case of beer. If you cannot find your way around the map drunk, players will not play on it..

Frenk.5917:

I have a dream: a reworked eotm (less edges and pve) which would function as “borderland”, with DBL as 2nd BL and Alpine BL as third BL and, of course, EBG.

YES! PLEASE!

Just spoke to a friend who’s still on NA and he says that EotM over there is pretty organized – or can be.
In that case it’s played as intended and should be rewarded as intended.
STIHL suggested that WxP should only be given out when killing players – that is a good start but maybe not too good for roamers.
So maybe it’s another “wait and see” thing.

Jana.6831:

I guess I know more about that than anet.
Some of my friends left because the ABL was their “home”. Some left because they couldn’t stand the power creep introduced in June and with HoT anymore. Some left because the balance sucks, some left because there was nothing left to fight on the DBLs, some left because they couldn’t play this game like they used to and so on.

I had to think about this for a while, and to be honest, you have a really solid point. I mean Anet does not ask people why they stopped playing, so, someone who was very involved and active within the community, with a pretty large social circle, could in fact have better insight into why people are leaving and what it would take to retain them, then someone sitting in an office looking at metrics.

So, just wanted to let you know that after I really thought about it, I came to believe that there could be some solid truth to your claim.

Consider EotM have nothing what so ever to do with wvw then no the suggestion is absurd and tbh if they prefer EotM from WvW by all means stay there. Having upscaled karma trains that are not able to move outside of a keep or tower if there are no com on the map and only know how to autoattack and scream cheat when being rolled over moving to wvw would be a disaster for wvw.

EotM obviously is filling a purpose for the players that enjoy doing it, so let them have that purpose. It might not be what it was intended to be but it was super easy to see that it would go that way. I mean it was not long ago were you could get 22 badges for capping a worm, whilst you got 1-2 for capping SM the biggest thin in wvw to cap.
It change like half a year back or so, but my point is when EotM came out they made it so that the pve part in that area gave you more then the wvw part.
Ofc there will be a pve train there, it is in every other aspect of the game were such thing can be added

Remove? I play 90% percent of playtime in there as commander. I love it! In two years i played it litterly thousands of hours mainly as commander. The badges and karma is useless i stacked loads of it and no idea where to spend it on. If your really lucky maybe 3 exotics a week. And really i play huge amounts of time.

Before hot i played in a guild group in normal wvw to. It has some appeal. But eotm is much better for me. On my server currently the wvw maps are completly empty and thus not at all playable. Also ‘real wvw players’ think an superior + normal flameram does more damage then three normal flamerams. This way of playing results in a much slower gameplay. Eotm has a great pace more action and regular massive fights.

There could be a lot more fights if things where balanced though. This week for example red about 80, blue about 20 and green an average 40 man. Blue was roflstomped of eotm most of last weekend making it almost unplayable for my side aswell (green). At this point its best to play avoidence. Because loosing a fight will make your zerg schrink about 10 man at the time. Due frustration about unbalance. With fair teams ill ocasionally fight and with slightly being outnumbered defensive ambushing.

Removing this mode will result in players lime me quitting the game. I lime guildzerg in borders aswell but atm finding more then 3 people on even a map like ebg doesnt happen more then once a week maybe month

If they change EoTM in any manner, one of 2 things will happen:

1. The EotM folks will ktrain in WvW : this will tick off the wvw folks (already seeing this in T1 with YB. Can’t imagine the outcry if this gets any worse.)

2. the EoTM folks will not play WvW : this will tick off the Eotm/semi wvw folks

Since there are more PvE folks, and more EoTM folks than WvW folks, ticking off the majority of your playerbase to appease a minority is not good business.

Then again, knowing Anet’s sledgehammer philosophy for making changes, I would almost expect them to neuter both EoTM and WvW into oblivion and tick everyone off equally…

I dislike eotm so much that I wanted it removed as I see it as one of the main things that has killed wvw but, after reading a lot of these posts, some of u guys have helped me see the light :P

Eotm itself isnt the problem for me. I like the map. The problem is what people do on it (easy farming for wvw rewards to the detriment of real wvw)… but anyway, it is true a lot of ppl like eotm and if it were gone many would probably chuck a tanty and leave the game, which isnt a good thing.

Sooo I swallow my pride *blushing * and agree that rather than removing it or limiting its use, it would be a good thing if eotm were included in real wvw, with the exact same rewards, so ppl could choose which map they wanted to play on and still do their k-train farm on their beloved eotm if thats what they want. That way the eotm’ers would be made to go to wvw :P muahahahaa… wvw would benefit and the eotm’ers might actually find they like real wvw.

Get rid of Eotm. Go back and crawl under the rock you slithered out from. EOTM is fine the way it is. People can level their alts there instead of bringing them into real wvw. EOTM is great fun on alts. You work together as a team and you meet people from different servers and form new friendships. EOTM needs to stay and fools accounts that want to nerf everything should be deleted. You’re ruining the game for other players with your nerfing crap.

Get rid of it. all it does is take people away from real wvw. eotm was brought into the game as a place to go when you’re waiting in Q and we know that’s not an issue anymore.

jamesdolla.3954:

Get rid of it. all it does is take people away from real wvw. eotm was brought into the game as a place to go when you’re waiting in Q and we know that’s not an issue anymore.

Get rid of real wvw. Would that make you jump into EOTM? If those people running around in eotm would be interested in real wvw, they would have already been there.

Just because you don’t like it, does not mean they don’t like it.

I would say: Integrate WvW and EotM

But now the big question is: how is this best done?

Clearly both have their advantages and disadvantages!

How can we get the best of both, and even more difficult: What is the best of both?

Offair.2563:

If those people running around in eotm would be interested in real wvw, they would have already been there.

This is not true. Some people like WvW and even enjoy it, they are just on a dead server, or due to some chaos in the match up are getting rolled pretty hard this week, and EotM is the path of least resistance for getting a Dailies done, and getting Loot and Ranks.

For some people that don’t even like EotM, but will do it, because it offers better rewards then WvW.

Dayra.7405:

I would say: Integrate WvW and EotM

But now the big question is: how is this best done?

Clearly both have their advantages and disadvantages!

How can we get the best of both, and even more difficult: What is the best of both?

For EotM, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” certainly applies. Even if one were to wish EotM to evolve, merging it with a broken product (wvw) is most illogical. Sorry for those few of you that just have hate as your argument, it’s just not sound.

I think the OP has misunderstood the population metrics and more importantly misunderstood the value of EotM.

• Edge attracts people primarily interested in rewards first and zerg fights secondly. It’s short term strategies for short term value.
• Regular WvW appeals more to folks interested in the long term.
• There’s a variety of reasons why traditional WvW has lower participation now and it’s certainly not because anything has changed about EotM.

Silverstone.4539:

I think I see more people in EoTM than I do in WvW maps.

You can’t possibly ‘see’. EotM draws from all servers with the same color and you can, at best, only estimate the numbers of folks fighting in your own tier.

Silverstone.4539:

If Anet are true to their word and want to see WvW good again (i know, a little hard to believe right now), they must consider this.

I hope they don’t. I love that EotM pulls most karma trainers out of ‘real’ WvW because the tension between k-train and “real” wvw always diminished the fun for both groups.

Silverstone.4539:

EoTM is sucking WvW population. More so for the lower tier servers maybe.

There’s no evidence of that. Again, EotM appeals to a different sort of game play. At any given point, nearly everyone will have some interest in EotM: chieves, quick rewards, guild training, etc. But not everyone that likes EotM likes traditional WvW.

More importantly, people who have played WvW for 2-3 years are ready for something new (which they don’t feel they got from Desert BLs). Some stopped playing and some are getting their fix from EotM. That will change if/when ANet delivers something new in terms of keeping match-ups interesting.

The hard truth is, like I and some others have said. EoTM was created as a overflow service for WvW. So whatever it is they have planned for WvW, whether it be server merger? mega server whatever. EoTM must also be taken into consideration to help find the solution to population balance. As it is an off shoot of the WvW population in the first place.

Thinking more and more in the direction of having WvW split up into different modes. That the "Real WvW" as we have now would be the EBG map, and EotM is a own map etc. Who knows what other "modes/maps" they would have.

Accept that one system/style doesn’t suit everyone, and make different things, and different ways to enjoy it.

Just give less rewards to EotM. And give better rewards to wvw. EotM is basically the same as any other pve karma train while it’s much more rewarding then normal wvw with less effort.
Keep it for those who love it, but make wvw more attractive with more loot, badges and a good way to spent them and reward tracks.

Silverstone.4539:

The hard truth is, like I and some others have said. EoTM was created as a overflow service for WvW.

I was not around during it’s creation, but this is what I have heard as well, so obviously it has pulled WvW players away from WvW to play that mode. Given it’s easy rewards, and fast K-Train atmosphere, it’s no surprise that any one on a dead server, or a server getting rolled, would find EotM a more attractive alternative to playing on their home server.

So at least in part, EotM has directly been contributing to the decline in players on the WvW borderlands, as it’s a more attractive and more rewarding game mode, especially in current times, with some of the most painful lop sided math-ups this week, so it’s easy to see how EotM could become a much more preferred option of play if your server is loosing it’s current match up.

However, that just means, what everyone has been saying. EotM is contributing to the decline of WvW. And while it may not be the only reason people are not playing WvW, it is a reason why at least some people are not playing WvW anymore.

Dayra.7405:

I would say: Integrate WvW and EotM

But now the big question is: how is this best done?

Clearly both have their advantages and disadvantages!

How can we get the best of both, and even more difficult: What is the best of both?

They already tried this, it was called “HoT” and it failed miserably considering thousands of players left the game over it. The mechanics implemented in HoT were already tested in EotM with different skins..

Step 1 To kill WvW: bring EotM elements into WvW..
Step 2: See step one the game mode died.

lil devils x.6071:

Dayra.7405:

I would say: Integrate WvW and EotM

But now the big question is: how is this best done?

Clearly both have their advantages and disadvantages!

How can we get the best of both, and even more difficult: What is the best of both?

They already tried this, it was called “HoT” and it failed miserably considering thousands of players left the game over it. The mechanics implemented in HoT were already tested in EotM with different skins..

That’s not what I meant. Maps and map-mechanics can and should be different and there is no need to integrate them, just let them exist in parallel such that player can play with what they like most. When I talk about the gamemode I mean things like 4h vs 168h matches, fixed number of maps vs dynamic number of maps, ….

Auto-upgrades were not tested in EotM, EotM has no upgrades. The auto-upgrades are ANets answer to two massive player-complaints in the forum:

• Grief-play resulting from many player having accounts on several server
• Many complains about the gold-sink of paying upgrades

shagwell.1349:

Just give less rewards to EotM.

This already happend! The BoH-chests you got in EotM were gone with HoT.

STIHL.2489:

And while it may not be the only reason people are not playing WvW, it is a reason why at least some people are not playing WvW anymore.

The reason while I play much less (1-2h per month instead of 10-20 per week) WvW than I did once are:

• it got stale after some years
• coverage-wars makes scoring and with it winning or loosing meaningless
• outside prime-time WvW has less fights than EotM as the jumping between 4 empty maps let you face the enemy only very rarely.

The devs will fix wvw population issues and we will be ok, no need to take aggressions out on a superior wvw game mode design like eotm and its players.

Tuesday will be here soon. Breathe people, breathe. It’s going to be ok.

Swagger.1459:

The devs will fix wvw population issues and we will be ok, no need to take aggressions out on a superior wvw game mode design like eotm and its players.

Tuesday will be here soon. Breathe people, breathe. It’s going to be ok.

Will they? If this is going to be simple merge of servers, they will not fix anything.

Swagger.1459:

The devs will fix wvw population issues and we will be ok, no need to take aggressions out on a superior wvw game mode design like eotm and its players.

If EotM is the better game mode, lets get rid of WvW and merge them.. I’ve already posted my piece on how that will end.

Agreed. Nerf EotM. But keep it.

shagwell.1349:

Just give less rewards to EotM. And give better rewards to wvw. EotM is basically the same as any other pve karma train while it’s much more rewarding then normal wvw with less effort.
Keep it for those who love it, but make wvw more attractive with more loot, badges and a good way to spent them and reward tracks.

After the nerf, loot and badges are not that great. After HOT, the fights got insane and fun. Fight commanders totally own K-trains. If you think todays EoTM is a pve karma train, then I have to ask, when was the last time you were there??

Some players might just like fast pace action on a small map, nothing more.

Removing EOTM is not going to help. If players wanted to be in the other maps, they would be. Removing EOTM means those people playing it would simply stop playing it. There is no reason to assume they’re automatically going to go play in the other maps instead.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Removing EOTM is not going to help. If players wanted to be in the other maps, they would be. Removing EOTM means those people playing it would simply stop playing it. There is no reason to assume they’re automatically going to go play in the other maps instead.

Given that EotM was put in as a pointless past time for WvW players waiting on Que. There is a solid expectation that at least a portion of them will return to playing WvW if EotM is removed.

STIHL.2489:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Removing EOTM is not going to help. If players wanted to be in the other maps, they would be. Removing EOTM means those people playing it would simply stop playing it. There is no reason to assume they’re automatically going to go play in the other maps instead.

Given that EotM was put in as a pointless past time for WvW players waiting on Que. There is a solid expectation that at least a portion of them will return to playing WvW if EotM is removed.

They could close down eotm right now and you would not have floods of players in wvw…

Eotm is comprised of all servers assigned by color. Yes, I know US and EU are separate…

Let’s do some averages for US side.

The 50 person zerg from BL is from 8 different red servers…

The 50 person zerg from OG is from 8 different green servers…

The 50 person Zerg from FR is from 8 different blue servers…

On average you could potentially get back like 6 people total per home server.

Wvw has 4 maps to divide out those players.

You would get back a meaningless amount of people per wvw map at any given time.

So yeah, let’s start killing a popular game mode, that players enjoy and that doesn’t have any of the issues wvw has, all so you can get a few people back at any time of day or night… Let’s tell those players that wvw needs you so bad we are cutting out rewards and progress so they can spend less time fighting and more time running around…

I mean, if we go that route, let’s start killing off fractals so you raid more. I’m sure that’s great incentive right?

Edit- maths.

lol i legit go to eotm to roam and fight people i get more duels and small scale fights in eotm then i get in ebg or any of the bls, wvw is a zergfest and that kitten is just boreing, difference is i can go in there and fight anyone from the opposing colors which can be several servers not just the 2 im fighting in wvw, also can roam and duel with ur friends in that map. takeing it out cuz u assume its a ktrain map is selfish, yes people use it to zerg but there are alot of roamers from all servers on that map now and u wont change that even if u lower the rewards cuz me personally i dont get kitten from eotm cept bags from the people i kill.

Swagger.1459:

I mean, if we go that route, let’s start killing off fractals so you raid more. I’m sure that’s great incentive right?

Anet’s literally way ahead of you, they already gutted dungeons to drive players into fractals and raids.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Swagger.1459:

I mean, if we go that route, let’s start killing off fractals so you raid more. I’m sure that’s great incentive right?

Anet’s literally way ahead of you, they already gutted dungeons to drive players into fractals and raids.

LOL, Yah, in light of what Anet already did, I gotta agree it was a bad move to use the analogy he did.

STIHL.2489:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Swagger.1459:

I mean, if we go that route, let’s start killing off fractals so you raid more. I’m sure that’s great incentive right?

Anet’s literally way ahead of you, they already gutted dungeons to drive players into fractals and raids.

LOL, Yah, in light of what Anet already did, I gotta agree it was a bad move to use the analogy he did.

And it was a bad decision. They acknowledged it and are reverting it…

All my other points that were not quoted stand. You’re not getting anything back or making pvp better as a whole by tinkering with eotm.

And the analogy was directed toward you because you do fractals casually and don’t want to see them messed with, but you have issues with raids. So yeah, we could easily turn that “cut stuff out to make what I like better” mentality around on other game modes and see how other players like it.

Swagger.1459:

STIHL.2489:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Swagger.1459:

I mean, if we go that route, let’s start killing off fractals so you raid more. I’m sure that’s great incentive right?

Anet’s literally way ahead of you, they already gutted dungeons to drive players into fractals and raids.

LOL, Yah, in light of what Anet already did, I gotta agree it was a bad move to use the analogy he did.

And it was a bad decision. They acknowledged it and are reverting it…

This is news to me. Where did they say they are reverting it?

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

STIHL.2489:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Swagger.1459:

I mean, if we go that route, let’s start killing off fractals so you raid more. I’m sure that’s great incentive right?

Anet’s literally way ahead of you, they already gutted dungeons to drive players into fractals and raids.

LOL, Yah, in light of what Anet already did, I gotta agree it was a bad move to use the analogy he did.

And it was a bad decision. They acknowledged it and are reverting it…

This is news to me. Where did they say they are reverting it?

Do you understand my points about eotm?

Swagger.1459:

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

STIHL.2489:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Swagger.1459:

I mean, if we go that route, let’s start killing off fractals so you raid more. I’m sure that’s great incentive right?

Anet’s literally way ahead of you, they already gutted dungeons to drive players into fractals and raids.

LOL, Yah, in light of what Anet already did, I gotta agree it was a bad move to use the analogy he did.

And it was a bad decision. They acknowledged it and are reverting it…

This is news to me. Where did they say they are reverting it?

Do you understand my points about eotm?

Well, since EotM was intended to be nothing but a means to pass time while waiting on a WvW Que to pass, and it had the adverse effect of pulling WvW players away from actual WvW, if you were trying to make a point about a company admitting a mistake, I think, you are on the wrong side of this discussion.

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

STIHL.2489:

Swagger.1459:

STIHL.2489:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Swagger.1459:

I mean, if we go that route, let’s start killing off fractals so you raid more. I’m sure that’s great incentive right?

Anet’s literally way ahead of you, they already gutted dungeons to drive players into fractals and raids.

LOL, Yah, in light of what Anet already did, I gotta agree it was a bad move to use the analogy he did.

And it was a bad decision. They acknowledged it and are reverting it…

This is news to me. Where did they say they are reverting it?

Do you understand my points about eotm?

Well, since EotM was intended to be nothing but a means to pass time while waiting on a WvW Que to pass, and it had the adverse effect of pulling WvW players away from actual WvW, if you were trying to make a point about a company admitting a mistake, I think, you are on the wrong side of this discussion.

What were the points in my recent post?

I made that point because you defend a game mode (like wvw and fractals), but have issues with another game mode (eotm and raids), but I’m not going to quote your post history here. Killing off “stuff” from one game mode (like eotm or fractals) won’t make another game mode (like wvw or raids) better, more attractive or increase participation. Killing off one game mode (like wvw or fractals) won’t force you into another game mode (like eotm or raids) correct?

I’ll let you think about all that.

Well since experience cannot be gained in WvW, I guess EotM will be a dead map unless there are queues.