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Posted by: atheria.2837

atheria.2837

Been watching this thread with interest as a supporter of server linkings(even while they admittedly have some negative effects and are not a long term solution for WvW), and I have to wonder who actually is against server linkings? Because I talk to a lot of guild leaders, and a lot of server leader and admin types, and I don’t hear them complaining.

If there really is a majority of players against server linkings where are those community leaders, those guild leaders who oppose linkings? It is what, three or four very active posters here who claim to speak for a majority, but I have yet to see even one major server community figure speak out against linkings.

You are on a host server, not a linked server.

When a server isn’t linked it drops like a stone – when it is linked it rises artificially.

After 3.5 years on YB, I have seen this as a fact over and over as YB and others gained and lost links – and lost or won on the quality and quantity of players on those servers.

And please remember the community aspect – you can’t get to know anyone well in ‘two months’ and what we need in WvW is consistency – which we have none of and haven’t had since the beginning of the links, which again, are still listed as a ‘beta test’.

So again, host servers don’t really have a dog in this fight, but linked servers do. Links are very treated differently and most commanders, like you, don’t have the time nor the inclination to get to know most of them.

And your comment about ‘major server community’? that’s an incredibly short-sighted comment in that most people in the game don’t read and don’t participate in GW2 forums at all.

If many on linked servers knew that there was a question or the fact that this is still beta test that can be undone, I know most linked servers and their players would be here – but since so many don’t even speak English or don’t understand how important the forums are, that is never going to happen.

Since I spend 4-12 hours in WvW on any given day, I will continue to speak out for those who spend most of their time in WvW.

Not keeping all IT jobs here is a major reason IT is so bad HERE. 33y IT 10y IT Security

(edited by atheria.2837)

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Posted by: atheria.2837

atheria.2837

I think Linking has helped the situation but we can take it one step further…

Remove all server links from T1 and T2 servers (6 servers no longer have links)
Add in a fifth tier (This will help to alleviate the bandwagoning individuals and queues)
Everyone from T3 on down would have 1 matched server.

I’d go with that. Two servers to any host server doesn’t make for a ‘balanced’ game or the ability for all to play many days.

Problem is, Anet is linking two servers to a host server and the imbalances are more than noticeable.

Prime time is impossible for many even on ‘lower’ servers when they can play – from getting home from work to going to sleep for the next workday – any server that has these kinds of queues when most people play isn’t working well at all.

Not keeping all IT jobs here is a major reason IT is so bad HERE. 33y IT 10y IT Security

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Posted by: Euryon.9248

Euryon.9248

The fundamental conflict here is between people who value different things in wvw: “server identity” vs competitiveness/balance. The OP and most of those arguing for breaking the links obviously care much more about server identity than competitive balance, as you can see in most of their arguments posted in favor of breaking links. For the rest of us, esp those who were on bottom-level NA servers before the linking, competitive balance is far more important than any vague sense of “server identity”.

My “server identity” before linking (when I was still on my original server) was “loser”. Our server finished 24th (that’s dead last) every single WvW season. We once got a screenshot of the ENTIRE server wvw community at reset of a whopping 17 people. You could get on and not see another soul for hours. When you got matched up with any of the top 20 or so servers, you’d get run over most of the time you tried to do anything. We got matched up with YB and another bottom-level server once and the majority of the week YB maintained a 650+ warscore (hitting 695 many times). It was a terrible situation for the bottom tier servers unless you liked solo flipping camps all day.

There are actually still imbalances even linked up, which shows you just how disparate the server levels still are. My current server gets destroyed in off hours pretty much every week even with the linkings, but at least we can get enough people to run around and do stuff most of the time. Queues are here at reset but not most of the rest of the week.

As for the notion that we can handle unlinking now because of greater population after pips/legendary was introduced…I’m pretty sure you know that argument is nonsense. You don’t make a major structure change around a temporary phenomenon. The majority of the new players who jumped on when the pip system came on don’t really care about wvw in and of itself, and many of those have already left the game mode since they don’t care to invest that much time in getting the shiny. Once those who do want to stick it out for the shiny get theirs in the next 6-8 months, many will also leave. A few who were new to the mode will stick around past that, but the idea that unlinking will be workable because of the shiny-seekers won’t hold water in the long-term.

The best idea I’ve seen is the one for adding a 5th tier, giving 3 more servers host status, and unlinking 6 servers instead of 3. That would be worth experimenting with to see if some sense of balance can be maintained.

But the absolute last thing I want to see is a repeat of the days when SF steamrolled FC+ET for 3 straight months of yawnfests.

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Posted by: Magnuzone.8395

Magnuzone.8395

NA had the issue with server stacking; prior to linking, EU did not have the issue — or at least not to the extreme that was seen in NA.

The linking has brought the NA bandwagon movement to EU. We really hadn’t seen it in EU prior to linking; again not to the extreme that was happening in NA. SFR was the only server, allegedly, that actively paid for guilds to transfer to its server. It’s why it remained dominant for a long time.

EU players: solo, roamers, guilded, but particularly guilded had discussions amongst each other to ensure that three max big guilds were on each server to ensure a good ratio of fights. These guilds self-organized and helped balance out the rest of the pug masses. And I’m pretty sure none of these guilds cared whether they were in 1st, 2nd or 10th spot: they just wanted to make sure they had the bodies to fight to challenge them and their friends during their leisure time.

What did motivate them were queue times: If they got too long on any given server, they’d move down in tiers.

It wound up creating a pleasant playing field where pugs could improve skillset by tagging along with high level guilds — and pugs would leave the guilds alone if they were working on group raids/compositions etc… Scouts could call out blob reports and the guilds would actually (good naturedly) fight with each other in map chat over who got to take on the blob first. I even witnessed one guild wait at the side to let another guild have the first shot.

EU servers period would complain about what is common in NA — zerging. And accuse other guilds of hand holding if they didn’t wait turns.

It’s just a completely different mentality. In EU it’s about the gameplay, in NA it was about the reward/first place, etc… Weekends on most EU servers were empty because folks were out doing things with family and friends. Weekdays became the game days.

EU did not need linking to balance out the population. The majority played during prime and there were small groups of devoted “daytime/nighttime” regulars.

The server balance issues were NA only. Linking was created for NA.

Your blanket statements aren’t a far cry from racism in terms of ignorance. But then I guess I should expect that from an EU player. See how unfair that is?

I think you mean bigotry.

I’m not that either.

+1. Well said.

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Posted by: Vicious.3042

Vicious.3042

Clash of Continents 2017?

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Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

The fundamental conflict here is between people who value different things in wvw: “server identity” vs competitiveness/balance. The OP and most of those arguing for breaking the links obviously care much more about server identity than competitive balance, as you can see in most of their arguments posted in favor of breaking links. For the rest of us, esp those who were on bottom-level NA servers before the linking, competitive balance is far more important than any vague sense of “server identity”.

My “server identity” before linking (when I was still on my original server) was “loser”. Our server finished 24th (that’s dead last) every single WvW season. We once got a screenshot of the ENTIRE server wvw community at reset of a whopping 17 people. You could get on and not see another soul for hours. When you got matched up with any of the top 20 or so servers, you’d get run over most of the time you tried to do anything. We got matched up with YB and another bottom-level server once and the majority of the week YB maintained a 650+ warscore (hitting 695 many times). It was a terrible situation for the bottom tier servers unless you liked solo flipping camps all day.

There are actually still imbalances even linked up, which shows you just how disparate the server levels still are. My current server gets destroyed in off hours pretty much every week even with the linkings, but at least we can get enough people to run around and do stuff most of the time. Queues are here at reset but not most of the rest of the week.

As for the notion that we can handle unlinking now because of greater population after pips/legendary was introduced…I’m pretty sure you know that argument is nonsense. You don’t make a major structure change around a temporary phenomenon. The majority of the new players who jumped on when the pip system came on don’t really care about wvw in and of itself, and many of those have already left the game mode since they don’t care to invest that much time in getting the shiny. Once those who do want to stick it out for the shiny get theirs in the next 6-8 months, many will also leave. A few who were new to the mode will stick around past that, but the idea that unlinking will be workable because of the shiny-seekers won’t hold water in the long-term.

The best idea I’ve seen is the one for adding a 5th tier, giving 3 more servers host status, and unlinking 6 servers instead of 3. That would be worth experimenting with to see if some sense of balance can be maintained.

But the absolute last thing I want to see is a repeat of the days when SF steamrolled FC+ET for 3 straight months of yawnfests.

Best post yet on this thread.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

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Posted by: DeWolfe.2174

DeWolfe.2174

The fundamental conflict here is between people who value different things in wvw: “server identity” vs competitiveness/balance.

How does one truly have a competition when the Dev’s set who wins and loses by manipulating populations? Mostly by linking and locking Worlds. And, when they start showing us not just queues but, actual active map populations, then I’ll think they may care about competition.

[AwM] of Jade Quarry.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

The fundamental conflict here is between people who value different things in wvw: “server identity” vs competitiveness/balance. The OP and most of those arguing for breaking the links obviously care much more about server identity than competitive balance, as you can see in most of their arguments posted in favor of breaking links. For the rest of us, esp those who were on bottom-level NA servers before the linking, competitive balance is far more important than any vague sense of “server identity”.

My “server identity” before linking (when I was still on my original server) was “loser”. Our server finished 24th (that’s dead last) every single WvW season. We once got a screenshot of the ENTIRE server wvw community at reset of a whopping 17 people. You could get on and not see another soul for hours. When you got matched up with any of the top 20 or so servers, you’d get run over most of the time you tried to do anything. We got matched up with YB and another bottom-level server once and the majority of the week YB maintained a 650+ warscore (hitting 695 many times). It was a terrible situation for the bottom tier servers unless you liked solo flipping camps all day.

There are actually still imbalances even linked up, which shows you just how disparate the server levels still are. My current server gets destroyed in off hours pretty much every week even with the linkings, but at least we can get enough people to run around and do stuff most of the time. Queues are here at reset but not most of the rest of the week.

As for the notion that we can handle unlinking now because of greater population after pips/legendary was introduced…I’m pretty sure you know that argument is nonsense. You don’t make a major structure change around a temporary phenomenon. The majority of the new players who jumped on when the pip system came on don’t really care about wvw in and of itself, and many of those have already left the game mode since they don’t care to invest that much time in getting the shiny. Once those who do want to stick it out for the shiny get theirs in the next 6-8 months, many will also leave. A few who were new to the mode will stick around past that, but the idea that unlinking will be workable because of the shiny-seekers won’t hold water in the long-term.

The best idea I’ve seen is the one for adding a 5th tier, giving 3 more servers host status, and unlinking 6 servers instead of 3. That would be worth experimenting with to see if some sense of balance can be maintained.

But the absolute last thing I want to see is a repeat of the days when SF steamrolled FC+ET for 3 straight months of yawnfests.

Just out of curiosity, what server are you on?

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

I thought it was obvious. Balance vs server identity vs benefits.

Back when some of us call for deletion of servers, quite a number oppose it strongly because of server identity. Six months down the road, the same group of people that oppose then supports it, smirk.

Anyway, all those times having people opposing or supporting something they don’t really understand, in other words, for things they only understand vaguely will simply result in nothing done and end up as long term damage. If people want to play couple of months or even a year or few years down the road, that is to say hope their game environment will be still healthy and positive then, then do make responsible comments.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com

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Posted by: Yuffi.2430

Yuffi.2430

I don’t know about other players but when I opposed the deletion of the lower tier servers it was because I felt my server and my contribution to the game was as valuable as any other player in any other tier. I would have supported the deletion of all servers and the creation of new ones but that’s not what the majority of posts requested.

As far as I can tell the creation of linked “guest” servers was a deliberate sacrifice of the minority of players (smaller servers) to appease the majority (larger servers). At the time the Developers were aware of the threat linking posed to server identity and spoke of the challenge of retaining identity on linked servers. I can’t see anything they have done in this regard, and linked servers have struggled to retain any form of identity, despite the difference they make to the actual matches. Even on the forums it’s always the host server name that is used for each team.

I still don’t support the deletion of servers, because of the chaos it could cause in the communities, but IF it has to be done it should be ALL servers out of fairness.

Linking has had some positive sides, I’ve met new people and maps definitely seem to have more players as a result.

Linking also has a lot of negatives too.

  • I watched ET in NA start to climb out of the bottom tier only to be swallowed up when linking started – I hope their community still survives today. While host servers can still try to do this sort of thing, linked servers can’t. In theory a linked server could become a host (this has happened in EU) but there are no figures for population so no way players can work towards this goal and know how much progress they are making.
  • Two months is just long enough to earn a bit of respect and get to know people, only to be moved on, and have to change voice comms, friends list etc… again.
  • Linking has jumped me from tiers I like to play in into tiers I do not enjoy, and my only choice is whether to put up with it or abandon my server.

Personally I find that some links I don’t enjoy so I play a lot less. Others I enjoy more and play more. I find the randomness of relinking to be irritating because I have no say in it at all. There is no target I can work towards to escape this if I wish to remain with my server and friends – everything I do to help is credited to another server. Perhaps if there was a league table of the guest servers we’d have something to fight for, but that would mean acknowledging that guest servers have an identity of their own.

Overall I would prefer to be in a more predictable situation but I fear the worst damage is already done, and I see no evidence that Anet care about server communities so I’m not going to hold my breath while I wait to see what happens next.

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Posted by: ThunderPanda.1872

ThunderPanda.1872

We should just perma link instead of constantly changing.

Linking shouldn’t be removed, since some servers could be dead again after the reward hype moves on. (Unless we have constant new WvW updates… but I doubt given the record)

How do you create server identity/loyalty/competiveness when you are playing with different community or under a different name all the time?

Mass transfer after every relink… $$$$$$$$$$ but screws up gameplay

Transfer cost for guest servers……………………… ¯\(-,-)

Send me 1000g and I will stop trolling WvW forum.
I have a dream – Our Anet Senpai will make WvW Great Again!
WvW Forum is more competitive than WvW

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Posted by: Caliburn.1845

Caliburn.1845

So long as there is no barrier of entry or criteria to join a server you cannot create a competitive environment in WvW. People will flock to winning servers, and leave losing servers. It has happened since the start of the game.

Trying to tie competition to server identity is structurally impossible, unless you want to fundamentally redesign WvW.

Personally I believe that the majority of WvW players have more loyalty to their guilds than their servers, so I would encourage Anet to look at redesigning WvW around the concept of guilds rather than servers. You could create something more dynamic, player-determined, and competitive. But it would have to be a fundamental redesign, none of this incremental bit by bit stuff we’ve been getting.

Caliburn.1845, Monsters Inc.
Darkhaven>Dragonbrand>Blackgate>Maguuma>Yaks Bend>Stormbluff Isle>Yaks Bend

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

So long as there is no barrier of entry or criteria to join a server you cannot create a competitive environment in WvW. People will flock to winning servers, and leave losing servers. It has happened since the start of the game.

Trying to tie competition to server identity is structurally impossible, unless you want to fundamentally redesign WvW.

Personally I believe that the majority of WvW players have more loyalty to their guilds than their servers, so I would encourage Anet to look at redesigning WvW around the concept of guilds rather than servers. You could create something more dynamic, player-determined, and competitive. But it would have to be a fundamental redesign, none of this incremental bit by bit stuff we’ve been getting.

I’ve asked a number of times if people could give a percentage of guilds vs pugs, and nobody can answer. My observations is there’s far more pugs than organized guilds, so it would follow that their loyalty would be to their server if unguilded. At the very least, it would not be to a guild they’re not a part of, and making people join guilds to play is not practical. And if there’s more pugs than guilds, catering to guilds would be a huge mistake. So sure the majority of players in guilds are loyal to their guilds, but if the majority of the entire population isn’t in a guild, well …..

Catering to anything that is exclusive vs inclusive is just a poor business model.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

(edited by Jayne.9251)

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Posted by: Caliburn.1845

Caliburn.1845

Majority of players I see in WvW are in a guild. The ones without a tag usually just aren’t repping at the time. Off-hours is going to be significantly different in that regard compared to NA primetime.

Caliburn.1845, Monsters Inc.
Darkhaven>Dragonbrand>Blackgate>Maguuma>Yaks Bend>Stormbluff Isle>Yaks Bend

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Posted by: Baldrick.8967

Baldrick.8967

I found the comment that EU was in a good state before linking very amusing.

EU has always been beset with bandwaggoning guilds who would think they are the best thing since sliced bread, ask people to leave maps so they can get their raid going, leave a sour taste in ‘pugs’ (ie, the original wvw players on that server), dissaude people from playing, and then a few months later they’d be off ‘looking for the fights’ by joining an even more stacked server.

Rinse, repeat for several years and EU maps were ghost towns before linking outside of prime, mis matched populations and mis matched coverage leading to match blow outs and declining populations.

Out of my friends list of wvw players from the early days, I’m the last man standing..and I’m not really playing now either since this latest sticking plaster disaster.

Let’s face it, the mode is stale. It needs a rework, but Anet aren’t willing to invest even a faction of the money they wasted on their failed e-sports ( I told them it would fail..), and so we’re seeing the decline in numbers again.

Server pride has gone. Maybe it’s time to rework the mode completely.

One change they could bring out is making scoring more interesting. Killing higher ranks could give more points, for instance. Or killing people who have clocked up more kills without dying. You could even have it so that when someone reaches a threshold they are highlighted on the map.

Events within wvw would be easy to do, if they had anyone willing to take the time to do them.

Maybe it’s time to kill off servers, and make it guild based instead, with guilds allowed 500 players and tactical timed matches between squads of various sizes on various maps and a ranking and handicap system. Five teams on a map.

Maybe even have a couple ‘free for all’ maps where you can join with a squad of five maximum and be randomly assigned a colour for that fight, one hour duration, rewards based on various criteria.

So many different ways of doing it, but it would mean a complete relaunch of wvw with a marketing budget too- so enough dreaming, I’m off to bed.

WvW player. Doing another world completion for my next Legendary. Hater of mini-games.

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

I found the comment that EU was in a good state before linking very amusing.

EU has always been beset with bandwaggoning guilds who would think they are the best thing since sliced bread, ask people to leave maps so they can get their raid going, leave a sour taste in ‘pugs’ (ie, the original wvw players on that server), dissaude people from playing, and then a few months later they’d be off ‘looking for the fights’ by joining an even more stacked server.

Rinse, repeat for several years and EU maps were ghost towns before linking outside of prime, mis matched populations and mis matched coverage leading to match blow outs and declining populations.

Out of my friends list of wvw players from the early days, I’m the last man standing..and I’m not really playing now either since this latest sticking plaster disaster.

Let’s face it, the mode is stale. It needs a rework, but Anet aren’t willing to invest even a faction of the money they wasted on their failed e-sports ( I told them it would fail..), and so we’re seeing the decline in numbers again.

Server pride has gone. Maybe it’s time to rework the mode completely.

One change they could bring out is making scoring more interesting. Killing higher ranks could give more points, for instance. Or killing people who have clocked up more kills without dying. You could even have it so that when someone reaches a threshold they are highlighted on the map.

Events within wvw would be easy to do, if they had anyone willing to take the time to do them.

Maybe it’s time to kill off servers, and make it guild based instead, with guilds allowed 500 players and tactical timed matches between squads of various sizes on various maps and a ranking and handicap system. Five teams on a map.

Maybe even have a couple ‘free for all’ maps where you can join with a squad of five maximum and be randomly assigned a colour for that fight, one hour duration, rewards based on various criteria.

So many different ways of doing it, but it would mean a complete relaunch of wvw with a marketing budget too- so enough dreaming, I’m off to bed.

We must have been playing a very different game because I didn’t see the mass pug server hopping migration happen really until after linking started. To the point now it’s almost a joke.

EU never claimed to be 24/7, never wanted to be really. It was fine with the prime time rush and then a scrappy crew of maybe 10 during off hours.

Couple that with constantly changing matches, we had it good.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

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Posted by: Kofiend.2530

Kofiend.2530

So long as there is no barrier of entry or criteria to join a server you cannot create a competitive environment in WvW. People will flock to winning servers, and leave losing servers. It has happened since the start of the game.

Trying to tie competition to server identity is structurally impossible, unless you want to fundamentally redesign WvW.

Personally I believe that the majority of WvW players have more loyalty to their guilds than their servers, so I would encourage Anet to look at redesigning WvW around the concept of guilds rather than servers. You could create something more dynamic, player-determined, and competitive. But it would have to be a fundamental redesign, none of this incremental bit by bit stuff we’ve been getting.

I’ve asked a number of times if people could give a percentage of guilds vs pugs, and nobody can answer. My observations is there’s far more pugs than organized guilds, so it would follow that their loyalty would be to their server if unguilded. At the very least, it would not be to a guild they’re not a part of, and making people join guilds to play is not practical. And if there’s more pugs than guilds, catering to guilds would be a huge mistake. So sure the majority of players in guilds are loyal to their guilds, but if the majority of the entire population isn’t in a guild, well …..

Catering to anything that is exclusive vs inclusive is just a poor business model.

Sure there are more Pugs then ppl in dedicated WvW guilds or even semi dedicated but from all the servers ive been on once the WvW group logs for the night the pugs leave. Hardly any stick around to the map most just looking for another WvW guild to attach themselves to until they in turn log off. So yeah pugs play a part in WvW but id say guilds are much more important to the survival of the game mode. Not to say all pugs are like that but id say the majority are.

SF>SoR>TC>SBI>DB>SFR>BG>DB>SoS
[DN] Digital Nemesis

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

Most of your pugs are your scouts and roamers.

Sure you can play without them, particularly if you like trains.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

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Posted by: msalakka.4653

msalakka.4653

NA had the issue with server stacking; prior to linking, EU did not have the issue — or at least not to the extreme that was seen in NA.

The linking has brought the NA bandwagon movement to EU. We really hadn’t seen it in EU prior to linking; again not to the extreme that was happening in NA. SFR was the only server, allegedly, that actively paid for guilds to transfer to its server. It’s why it remained dominant for a long time.

EU players: solo, roamers, guilded, but particularly guilded had discussions amongst each other to ensure that three max big guilds were on each server to ensure a good ratio of fights. These guilds self-organized and helped balance out the rest of the pug masses. And I’m pretty sure none of these guilds cared whether they were in 1st, 2nd or 10th spot: they just wanted to make sure they had the bodies to fight to challenge them and their friends during their leisure time.

What did motivate them were queue times: If they got too long on any given server, they’d move down in tiers.

It wound up creating a pleasant playing field where pugs could improve skillset by tagging along with high level guilds — and pugs would leave the guilds alone if they were working on group raids/compositions etc… Scouts could call out blob reports and the guilds would actually (good naturedly) fight with each other in map chat over who got to take on the blob first. I even witnessed one guild wait at the side to let another guild have the first shot.

EU servers period would complain about what is common in NA — zerging. And accuse other guilds of hand holding if they didn’t wait turns.

It’s just a completely different mentality. In EU it’s about the gameplay, in NA it was about the reward/first place, etc… Weekends on most EU servers were empty because folks were out doing things with family and friends. Weekdays became the game days.

EU did not need linking to balance out the population. The majority played during prime and there were small groups of devoted “daytime/nighttime” regulars.

The server balance issues were NA only. Linking was created for NA.

As someone who’s been playing WvW on Gandara since early ‘13 and seen this first-hand, I can’t +1 this post enough.

Why anyone would ask for developer confirmation of this, I don’t understand. They have no clue about their own game, just look at the class balance. Condi is fine in their book. Tells you everything you need to know.

Gutter Rat [cry] | Gandara | Roaming nuisance
~ There is no balance team. ~

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

Please, give us back our servers and watch as the populations and the queues even out and get better.

yes lets introduce cricket meta along with tumbleweed across main street meta.

but hey, queues would be fixed!!!!

on a more serious note, why would servers populations “get” better? do you have any suggestions or fixes for this? weren’t linkings introduced to improve pop in the first place lol? do you have queues on all 4 maps? maybe switching to an un-queued map is better then no queue at all aka ghost town.

edit
I just read Jaynes post above, and I realized that the OP might be talking about EU lol. I’m from NA, so… if that’s the case then it might be a good idea to specify what time zone youre talking about.

Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE

(edited by Stand The Wall.6987)

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

I don’t know about other players but when I opposed the deletion of the lower tier servers it was because I felt my server and my contribution to the game was as valuable as any other player in any other tier. I would have supported the deletion of all servers and the creation of new ones but that’s not what the majority of posts requested.

As far as I can tell the creation of linked “guest” servers was a deliberate sacrifice of the minority of players (smaller servers) to appease the majority (larger servers). At the time the Developers were aware of the threat linking posed to server identity and spoke of the challenge of retaining identity on linked servers. I can’t see anything they have done in this regard, and linked servers have struggled to retain any form of identity, despite the difference they make to the actual matches. Even on the forums it’s always the host server name that is used for each team.

I still don’t support the deletion of servers, because of the chaos it could cause in the communities, but IF it has to be done it should be ALL servers out of fairness.

Linking has had some positive sides, I’ve met new people and maps definitely seem to have more players as a result.

Linking also has a lot of negatives too.

  • I watched ET in NA start to climb out of the bottom tier only to be swallowed up when linking started – I hope their community still survives today. While host servers can still try to do this sort of thing, linked servers can’t. In theory a linked server could become a host (this has happened in EU) but there are no figures for population so no way players can work towards this goal and know how much progress they are making.
  • Two months is just long enough to earn a bit of respect and get to know people, only to be moved on, and have to change voice comms, friends list etc… again.
  • Linking has jumped me from tiers I like to play in into tiers I do not enjoy, and my only choice is whether to put up with it or abandon my server.

Personally I find that some links I don’t enjoy so I play a lot less. Others I enjoy more and play more. I find the randomness of relinking to be irritating because I have no say in it at all. There is no target I can work towards to escape this if I wish to remain with my server and friends – everything I do to help is credited to another server. Perhaps if there was a league table of the guest servers we’d have something to fight for, but that would mean acknowledging that guest servers have an identity of their own.

Overall I would prefer to be in a more predictable situation but I fear the worst damage is already done, and I see no evidence that Anet care about server communities so I’m not going to hold my breath while I wait to see what happens next.

Naturally, all servers need to be deleted, otherwise, it is pointless to even delete to begin with. Afterall, the primary goal of deleting servers is to force balancing while implementing brand new sets of rules to enforce these balancing.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

EU servers have lesser impact because EU gamers are exposed to more east asia mmo than NA gamers. There are plenty of east asia mmorpg titles in EU and most east asia mmorpg titles focus on pvp and thus guilds, games build around cooperation between guilds, clans and alliances. It is very different from pve focus games where it isn’t about guilds or clans but rather individuality. The two different cultures naturally lead to different ways of doing things.

Of course, there are also new gamers that join the fry without playing any prior games, got shaped according to gw2 designs which is made for casuals and focus on individuality.

Gw2 designs are naturally contradicting to begin with when trying to put pvp into picture. It wasn’t as bad at start but it starts to break down with things like megaservers, eotm and guild cross chat. Everything that encourage or supports WvW got diluted and disintegrated.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com

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Posted by: ThunderPanda.1872

ThunderPanda.1872

There are people in guilds who play even when guild isn’t raiding….. it’s not as simply distinct as people in guild vs pugs not in guild

Send me 1000g and I will stop trolling WvW forum.
I have a dream – Our Anet Senpai will make WvW Great Again!
WvW Forum is more competitive than WvW

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

That isn’t the point. Guilds, clans and alliances play important roles in fostering pvp environment. However, that is not how it is now.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

@Players talking about the need for EU linking…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/World-Linking-Beta/first

“However, pairings for EU are a lot trickier, both because there is an odd number of total worlds, and because there is an odd number of specific language worlds. EU also has a greater number of well populated worlds, so it makes sense to link fewer worlds. The result is that a number of worlds in EU will not be linked.”

…So just because there were a “greater number of well populated worlds”… doesn’t mean EU didn’t need linking at all… and that it was “only a NA problem” to resolve either…

Some of you can keep griping about server linking, but that means you don’t care about wvw as a whole…

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

I know you’re reliant on quotes, even what you linked backed up what I’ve been saying.

Unlink EU.

Keep fixes for NA in NA.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

I know you’re reliant on quotes, even what you linked backed up what I’ve been saying.

Unlink EU.

Keep fixes for NA in NA.

Actually, you’re trying to spin it in your favor… Just because some worlds had decent population, doesn’t mean all of them did… Same held true for NA too. Fewer worlds needed linking doesn’t equal none of the worlds needed linking. Let that churn in your mind some.

You not looking at wvw as a whole is your problem…

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

(edited by Swagger.1459)

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

I know you’re reliant on quotes, even what you linked backed up what I’ve been saying.

Unlink EU.

Keep fixes for NA in NA.

Actually, you’re trying to spin it in your favor… Just because some worlds had decent population, doesn’t mean all of them did… Same held true for NA too. Fewer worlds needed linking doesn’t equal none of the worlds needed linking. Let that churn in your mind some.

You not looking at wvw as a whole is your problem…

And you aren’t realizing/recognizing that NA and EU are two very different entities. Even the quote you cited backs that up.

I don’t need a dev quote to back up what I’ve seen first-hand. Linking was bad for EU.

Going forward I would suggest Anet plans based on these differences.

Revert EU, and implement fixes meant for NA to NA only. They’re both current.ly stationed on separate server systems. It shouldn’t be hard. And those who prefer server-style WvW can help build the EU community, and leave the other stuff to those who want it.

Win-win. Empower everyone.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

I know you’re reliant on quotes, even what you linked backed up what I’ve been saying.

Unlink EU.

Keep fixes for NA in NA.

Actually, you’re trying to spin it in your favor… Just because some worlds had decent population, doesn’t mean all of them did… Same held true for NA too. Fewer worlds needed linking doesn’t equal none of the worlds needed linking. Let that churn in your mind some.

You not looking at wvw as a whole is your problem…

And you aren’t realizing/recognizing that NA and EU are two very different entities. Even the quote you cited backs that up.

I don’t need a dev quote to back up what I’ve seen first-hand. Linking was bad for EU.

Going forward I would suggest Anet plans based on these differences.

Revert EU, and implement fixes meant for NA to NA only. They’re both current.ly stationed on separate server systems. It shouldn’t be hard. And those who prefer server-style WvW can help build the EU community, and leave the other stuff to those who want it.

Win-win.

You can spin all you want, but that doesn’t mean you are right. EU still needed linking, but just not as many servers as NA… lesser doesn’t equal none.

I highly suggest dissecting that dev quote and what it means, not just what you want it to mean.

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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Posted by: Mysteriax.6049

Mysteriax.6049

I think Linking has helped the situation but we can take it one step further…

Remove all server links from T1 and T2 servers (6 servers no longer have links)
Add in a fifth tier (This will help to alleviate the bandwagoning individuals and queues)
Everyone from T3 on down would have 1 matched server.

Bumping this suggestion.

Bad Axxe
Blissful Epidemic [Blis]
Gate of Madness

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Posted by: Naurgalen.2374

Naurgalen.2374

In my experience in Sorrows Furnace (NA) server link has been a useful thing as now there IS people to play even in non peak hours. I still remember playing many nights with only 2 or 3 people in a map and not being able to capture more than camps and sometimes towers because the servers we were facing had 15+ people roaming. It was like a lame and imbalanced PvP instead of WvW.

Im not advocating that the system is balanced and shouldn’t be improved or changed to a better one, but it IS IMO an advancement.

(edited by Naurgalen.2374)

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Posted by: shiri.4257

shiri.4257

The fundamental conflict here is between people who value different things in wvw: “server identity” vs competitiveness/balance.

How does one truly have a competition when the Dev’s set who wins and loses by manipulating populations? Mostly by linking and locking Worlds. And, when they start showing us not just queues but, actual active map populations, then I’ll think they may care about competition.

The devs aren’t manipulating population. The players faux sense of balance competition is the cause of population imbalance since day 1. The links have been nothing but a blessing and prove that higher tier =/= higher skill. It just shows that higher tier = more fair weathers, plays the game as intended better (siege humping t3 structures and map hopping), or more poop sock commandos.

All “fight guilds” do these days is stack on a server so they can give each other reach arounds and pat each other on the back for ajamming pug tags on NA. Or goto guild base to gvg because pugs humped that t3 smc and they can’t remember how to fight in anything but a giant circle.

~Kasumei/Machiato
Desert Spectre [VII]-Crystal Desert
“You’re never out of the fight.”