Guild Wars 2

BlueBoy.1236:

Then my point was right. No server ts? no map hopping? no one responded to map chat? no one tried to ninja stuffs? It’s pretty obvious your server just doesn’t have any intention to defend at all. EBG is like the most populated map, you always have ppl to do something. When you don’t have anything on the map, it’s pretty obvious you just don’t try to do anything

Wow, looks like we have a someone from a mythical server with crowds of selfless scouts who is happy to sit and watch 24/7. Pls, tell us a name of that magical place.

Rednik.3809:

BlueBoy.1236:

Then my point was right. No server ts? no map hopping? no one responded to map chat? no one tried to ninja stuffs? It’s pretty obvious your server just doesn’t have any intention to defend at all. EBG is like the most populated map, you always have ppl to do something. When you don’t have anything on the map, it’s pretty obvious you just don’t try to do anything

Wow, looks like we have a someone from a mythical server with crowds of selfless scouts who is happy to sit and watch 24/7. Pls, tell us a name of that magical place.

The same thing can be applied to your opponent. They don’t have dedicated scouts too. Why can’t Reborn server flip anything on the map? Maybe just maybe they just never tried.

The patch indeed promotes k-train a lot, but it doesn’t give clear advantage to one server over another. So much until a server can’t even flip a thing in ebg

Edge of the Mists serves as a testing polygon for the new features that may be introduced to WvW

Thank God for testing serv.

Sirendor.1394:

Bad.

On T9 EU we really have to look for fights by running across the whole map and even then it occurs that we can’t find anyone to fight. White swords allowed us to find enemies and fights that much faster. Now it’s just a long series of karma training empty camps, towers and keeps.

TLDR: BRING BACK WHITE SWORDS

Yes.

I can spend an entire day to upgrade the UW home border(alone or with 1-2 more players) by running back and forth between keeps, towers and camps upgrading, walking dollies and calling for help if I see a big group show up. Upgraded keeps is the only thing keeping people interested in defending the borderland in the first place and now there’s no way for me to tell if something is attacked if I’m not there and therefore there’s no way for me to defend or call for help until it’s too late, if I dont happen to be where the enemy attacks just as they decide to do so. Right now I will not be able to upgrade much at all and I will have to be there the entire time from paper to wp.

Now since you’re from FoW you probably know how UW is at night/morning. If not you can check the income evolution for our matchup(Week 50): http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/2/

All day it’s about equal and every night FoW score skyrockets because UW and BT don’t have enough(sometimes, no) players at this time. I mean for UW it’s usually 0-5 wvw players total on all maps at late night- unless we got a karma train going, which is very rare. And now the very few people we have at night won’t even be able to tell which structures are attacked before they flip. If a few pve player should dare hop into wvw at night they’ll have no clue what to do and probably just leave shortly after.

This change is as we can see no good for low pop/bad coverage servers and it doesn’t help smallscale fights since the groups are more likely to miss eachother than to meet in a fight. That said I still enjoy the extra need for callouts of enemy movement and such at primetime but that doesn’t really work for any timeslot when servers are low on population.

(BTW: The time UW got a high tick on early wednesday was a hacker capping all keeps in no time at all and we’re all sorry about that. It shouldn’t be allowed to happen.)

no point 2 play @ low ppl servers without swords

Reborn.2934:

coverage and bigger wvw communities still only matters . nothing changed except the more flips and that wvw seems more like eotm now.

as for tries …. you are speaking to wrong person . i don t have a video but yesterday i flipped all enemies full upgraded camps alone and i upgraded and defend them with sieges all the times , but i assure you it was not fun to kill “noobs” ( the best “noob” trap camp is the north camp ) that was coming over and over . i didn’t have any challenge and some times i bored to death . during these flips the 82 level guards coming over and over for ages without anyone try to stop me …..

i did these flips only to troll this update and to send my message as player

That was what I did with the white swords, actually that’s what I’m always doing, except for the defending part which is about as exciting as sitting in a tower – it works with white swords as well, the only time I had some trouble soloing was when I was soloing towers as that takes too long. But since the constant EU lag is preventing my wvw play anyway, I won’t test whether or not the no white swords thingy makes any sense.

Reborn.2934:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Reborn.2934:

even with or without swords 5 men can not stop 10 men on omegas that want to take a t3 keep .

Just want to take a moment to say that you’re wrong. I have defended against a 12 omega rush on bay during the S2 tourney in the middle of the night with just myself and 2 others. All golems dead. This is before disablers. It’s not impossible, you just need a few people with functioning brains, cannons, ballistas, mortars, and maybe a treb or two. It wasn’t easy, but we did it. Omegas are not an insta-win. Although, they are more so now, since you won’t even know when they hit something if you’re not already in the structure.

agree that was the situation before golems mastering in season 2 ! now ? NO !

with full golems mastering now the situation is unfair to defenders AND if they do not have more than 5 men to counter omegas by disabling them , then the omegas can wipe anything on the wall in any place on the wall.

p.s. guess what have the attackers with omegas ? they are full of supplies and they can disable canons and every siege on walls , and oils until the omega golems destroy them

Oh I totally agree with you; Golem Mastery was something completely unneeded and they were already powerful enough. Disablers should also be the other way around — disable golems for 45 seconds (disabled golems can still move! How can they still move? They’re friggin robot suits), and other siege for 20. But that would be smart. We don’t do smart ’round these parts.

Funnily enough never really took any notice before no white swords, but why doesn’t the attack warning cover the whole tower, like in Jerris or Ogrewatch, standing on the hill you lose touch with the tower and the warning message.

Yep, i know, with all the issues there are I called on this one…. but this one nearly bit me today in the proverbial youknowwhat !

Where is my best friend lordkrall.7241, I want to hear what he thinks on this issue, because he is the only one here with deep knowledge for WvW matters?

About removing white sword, huge fail, non-stop ktrain just like EOTM, i tried to play today for hour-hour and half, and i end up with 26-27 Champ bags and 11 Heavy Loot Bag. We all know what this means.

Avit.3165:

About removing white sword, huge fail, non-stop ktrain just like EOTM, i tried to play today for hour-hour and half, and i end up with 26-27 Champ bags and 11 Heavy Loot Bag. We all know what this means.

That they’ll nerf Champ bags?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Avit.3165:

About removing white sword, huge fail, non-stop ktrain just like EOTM, i tried to play today for hour-hour and half, and i end up with 26-27 Champ bags and 11 Heavy Loot Bag. We all know what this means.

That they’ll nerf Champ bags?

I met more NPCs than people, in T2 EU primetime?

Kungsmurfen.2861:

Sirendor.1394:

Bad.

On T9 EU we really have to look for fights by running across the whole map and even then it occurs that we can’t find anyone to fight. White swords allowed us to find enemies and fights that much faster. Now it’s just a long series of karma training empty camps, towers and keeps.

TLDR: BRING BACK WHITE SWORDS

Yes.

I can spend an entire day to upgrade the UW home border(alone or with 1-2 more players) by running back and forth between keeps, towers and camps upgrading, walking dollies and calling for help if I see a big group show up. Upgraded keeps is the only thing keeping people interested in defending the borderland in the first place and now there’s no way for me to tell if something is attacked if I’m not there and therefore there’s no way for me to defend or call for help until it’s too late, if I dont happen to be where the enemy attacks just as they decide to do so. Right now I will not be able to upgrade much at all and I will have to be there the entire time from paper to wp.

Now since you’re from FoW you probably know how UW is at night/morning. If not you can check the income evolution for our matchup(Week 50): http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/2/

All day it’s about equal and every night FoW score skyrockets because UW and BT don’t have enough(sometimes, no) players at this time. I mean for UW it’s usually 0-5 wvw players total on all maps at late night- unless we got a karma train going, which is very rare. And now the very few people we have at night won’t even be able to tell which structures are attacked before they flip. If a few pve player should dare hop into wvw at night they’ll have no clue what to do and probably just leave shortly after.

This change is as we can see no good for low pop/bad coverage servers and it doesn’t help smallscale fights since the groups are more likely to miss eachother than to meet in a fight. That said I still enjoy the extra need for callouts of enemy movement and such at primetime but that doesn’t really work for any timeslot when servers are low on population.

(BTW: The time UW got a high tick on early wednesday was a hacker capping all keeps in no time at all and we’re all sorry about that. It shouldn’t be allowed to happen.)

You want to see something really interesting? T5 NA. We are currently up against a server that outnumbers us, and we’ve always relied on using small numbers of people to respond to larger groups which allows us to spread out more and allow our larger guilds to go elsewhere. We haven’t been able to do that without white swords. To clarify, I mainly play borderland defense; i.e. scouting, roaming, upgrading, etc. What I’ve seen is our defenders practically evaporate since the change went in; nobody wants tower/keep/camp squatting duty and it’s impossible to find a fight anymore. A camp flips? Run over to it and the people who took it have already waypointed or are long gone. Tower flips? Same deal. Keeps? Unless we have a waypoint, which nobody wants to bother upgrading to order anymore, they’re gone just as fast. All it takes is half a dozen guild cats and sometimes not even that. Our play style works in a completely different way than the other, larger server we’re up against, and it’s a play style we’ve tweaked and learned after losing for 24 weeks straight (our first win since then was last week).

So, check this out. Look at the score evolution for our server (green) before the patch and then the score evolution for the larger server (red) after the patch:

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/28/

We were winning the matchup by about 18k. Now we’re down 23k. As I posted earlier, this change destroyed the matchup for us. Since yesterday morning I’ve barely bothered to go into WvW, and the one time I did was into the red server’s BL to roam and flip camps. It was the most boring thing in the world; I flipped every camp in the BL and didn’t find a single fight. Not one. Who wants to play like this?

Revert the change. It’s terrible.

So it’s obvious no one wants to scout a tower/keep until the end of time because lets face it, it’s kitten boring.

Have the best of both worlds, make Crossed swords an upgrade (maybe a T2 upgrade after walls or worker) as this would promote good scouting habits but not suck the fun out of the game, would also get people thinking about lightly sieging a tower/keep before commiting to larger more costly upgrades.

Kungsmurfen.2861:

Sirendor.1394:

Bad.

On T9 EU we really have to look for fights by running across the whole map and even then it occurs that we can’t find anyone to fight. White swords allowed us to find enemies and fights that much faster. Now it’s just a long series of karma training empty camps, towers and keeps.

TLDR: BRING BACK WHITE SWORDS

Yes.

I can spend an entire day to upgrade the UW home border(alone or with 1-2 more players) by running back and forth between keeps, towers and camps upgrading, walking dollies and calling for help if I see a big group show up. Upgraded keeps is the only thing keeping people interested in defending the borderland in the first place and now there’s no way for me to tell if something is attacked if I’m not there and therefore there’s no way for me to defend or call for help until it’s too late, if I dont happen to be where the enemy attacks just as they decide to do so. Right now I will not be able to upgrade much at all and I will have to be there the entire time from paper to wp.

Now since you’re from FoW you probably know how UW is at night/morning. If not you can check the income evolution for our matchup(Week 50): http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/2/

All day it’s about equal and every night FoW score skyrockets because UW and BT don’t have enough(sometimes, no) players at this time. I mean for UW it’s usually 0-5 wvw players total on all maps at late night- unless we got a karma train going, which is very rare. And now the very few people we have at night won’t even be able to tell which structures are attacked before they flip. If a few pve player should dare hop into wvw at night they’ll have no clue what to do and probably just leave shortly after.

This change is as we can see no good for low pop/bad coverage servers and it doesn’t help smallscale fights since the groups are more likely to miss eachother than to meet in a fight. That said I still enjoy the extra need for callouts of enemy movement and such at primetime but that doesn’t really work for any timeslot when servers are low on population.

(BTW: The time UW got a high tick on early wednesday was a hacker capping all keeps in no time at all and we’re all sorry about that. It shouldn’t be allowed to happen.)

Hi there,

While I totally agree that white swords make defending tedious, there’s the (sad) fact that the PPT score FoW has comes through some hardcore nightcappers with golems (I think it’s the guild lpe). The removal of white swords will have some impact (since you can’t see what’s under attack and by the time you arrive it’s likely gone), but if our coverage at night is just higher, there’s not much to do about it (I don’t like it either).

I do think removal of white swords makes a very big change during daytime cause towers are getting randomly flipped, unless we go scouting all the time and tracking the enemy movements. Of course there’s still fights to be had, but mostly only by going into the heart of the enemy zones or waiting on their spawn. For example yesterday we had some great fighting at Blacktide EB keep and managed to defend it one hour a half with 4 people. :p

So removing white swords is in my opinion overall bad: people who liked to zerg before are just karmatraining all the time now, or golem rushing empty structures etc… which is a degradation of what WvW is into something like EotM. Defending+upgrading becomes pointless. The one positive thing I see about this change is that it appears to break immersion: you can’t just look at map and see where there’s a fight, you really have to go and look for them. Defending a structure successfully takes some balls now.

GROMIT.7829:

So it’s obvious no one wants to scout a tower/keep until the end of time because lets face it, it’s kitten boring.

Have the best of both worlds, make Crossed swords an upgrade (maybe a T2 upgrade after walls or worker) as this would promote good scouting habits but not suck the fun out of the game, would also get people thinking about lightly sieging a tower/keep before commiting to larger more costly upgrades.

Great idea however it takes way more effort then removing some lines of coding and call it an “event” no one ever asked for.

what if they made it so when u claim a castle for your guild .
u get white swords only for that building ?

Rednik.3809:

BlueBoy.1236:

Then my point was right. No server ts? no map hopping? no one responded to map chat? no one tried to ninja stuffs? It’s pretty obvious your server just doesn’t have any intention to defend at all. EBG is like the most populated map, you always have ppl to do something. When you don’t have anything on the map, it’s pretty obvious you just don’t try to do anything

Wow, looks like we have a someone from a mythical server with crowds of selfless scouts who is happy to sit and watch 24/7. Pls, tell us a name of that magical place.

Well, I’m not the original poster of that reply but on my home server, Dzagonur, which is in the lower bottom, we do have a TS and we have enough stragglers who can be organized into a raid and even to something as complicated as “tie their population by attacking their home fortress with a small force and then get our tower back and let’s treb our fortress open” …

If you happen to come at “the wrong time” (i.e. they have 20+ men on the map and your server has 5) – come back later.

If the OP never (assuming multiple attempts) managed to get a team together and if they do not have a server-wide TS … I’d say that server has either given up doing WvW for the current match or they’re just plain hopeless.

I kinda like the idea of upgrades for white swords. Why not take it further; if there is an active (read:not afk – maybe use a timer for that?) player within the radius of a keep/tower/camp/etc… then white swords apply.

Another idea is to make sentry NPC’s useful and have them provide white swords to connected locations. That way, we still get white swords if up AND offensive players can target them to disable swords for the element of surprise.

Hello, I am Oscuro of Kaineng! I personally like no white swords to an extent. First, I believe it makes hav icing and soloing keeps MUCH easier because no one knows what you are doing until it is too late. However, I feel that you should make white swords in a structure you are attacking unless you are outnumbered. This would make it a much more useful tool for small groups and it would make the balance between large and small population servers less. I mean this in the sense that if a large server outmans a different server on every map, than the larger server is going to have a mind numbingly full time having to sit in their towers, while it is easier for the smaller server to fight back since they don’t pull white swords when attacking and have to fear the larger server. Just my thoughts

oscuro.9720:

Hello, I am Oscuro of Kaineng! I personally like no white swords to an extent. First, I believe it makes hav icing and soloing keeps MUCH easier because no one knows what you are doing until it is too late. However, I feel that you should make white swords in a structure you are attacking unless you are outnumbered. This would make it a much more useful tool for small groups and it would make the balance between large and small population servers less. I mean this in the sense that if a large server outmans a different server on every map, than the larger server is going to have a mind numbingly full time having to sit in their towers, while it is easier for the smaller server to fight back since they don’t pull white swords when attacking and have to fear the larger server. Just my thoughts

The larger server is likely going to have scouts at most important locations anyway. The smaller servers will not. Therefore all that large server has to do is send a few people to the small server’s boarderland and they can take anything they’d like with little chance of being found. Not to mention that it is difficult for small servers to upgrade their things, meaning havoc groups will have easy paper towers to take. Having no white swords greatly favors the large server, not the small server.

I’m on a medium pop server and I actually think it’s a great idea as someone who does WvW a lot I think it makes things less automated, more fluid and it means commanders actually have to manage more information and people making it so winning requires more thought then just “lets attack these two places to get swords up then zerg rush SM” or something to that degree. In fact it encourages splitting up zergs which I personally believe results in better fights based around actual skill rather then numbers. The event also makes up leveled players more useful since they won’t be able to fight much they can still scout and be able to contribute outside of a zerg setting.

Just a summary of the reasons I enjoy the event, rather than complaining about it why not try and find the positives and how it could help make WvW better.

Runewolf.8456:

I’m on a medium pop server and I actually think it’s a great idea as someone who does WvW a lot I think it makes things less automated, more fluid and it means commanders actually have to manage more information and people making it so winning requires more thought then just “lets attack these two places to get swords up then zerg rush SM” or something to that degree. In fact it encourages splitting up zergs which I personally believe results in better fights based around actual skill rather then numbers. The event also makes up leveled players more useful since they won’t be able to fight much they can still scout and be able to contribute outside of a zerg setting.

Just a summary of the reasons I enjoy the event, rather than complaining about it why not try and find the positives and how it could help make WvW better.

I usually am the first to defend someone’s right to an opinion, but in this particular case, you are so very, very wrong. There are no positives. It’s turned WvW into just a bunch of tower/camp flipping trains…exactly like EOTM. I suggest if you find the “no swords” a great, marvelous, wonderful thing that you just go to EOTM.

oscuro.9720:

Hello, I am Oscuro of Kaineng! I personally like no white swords to an extent. First, I believe it makes hav icing and soloing keeps MUCH easier because no one knows what you are doing until it is too late.

I read this as: “Hello, I like to PvE, so I like the change a lot. <3”

I think wvw needs more temporary or permanent changes! Lets spice up the things!

Pavel.8531:

oscuro.9720:

Hello, I am Oscuro of Kaineng! I personally like no white swords to an extent. First, I believe it makes hav icing and soloing keeps MUCH easier because no one knows what you are doing until it is too late.

I read this as: “Hello, I like to PvE, so I like the change a lot. <3”

Seems to be the general consensus among the people who are in favor of no swords.
Why they don’t know that EotM is a thing is the real question…

I don’t like the update at all. I prefer fights over points. No whitte swords gives no track on enemy movements and that leads to avoiding fights. There will be way less epic fights for structures. The update favors the PvE site of WvW, which is pretty boring.

I put this in another thread but I think it should be put in this one.
Okay, I can understand the desire to change things up in WvW. However, this was the WRONG way to go about things. I’m sure in the higher tier’s, where around the clock coverage isn’t an issue, this wouldn’t be as crippling. The no white swords in the lower tier’s has proved devastating. A lot of servers don’t have that coverage, even in their prime time hours people don’t want to just baby-sit a camp or keep. You’ve yet to make it worthwhile to do so. If you feel the need to keep the no white swords, just to make things more difficult for people who are already fighting tooth and nail to bring their servers back to life, then may I suggest a few changes?

• 100k Cap – White swords would STILL work and appear until the server has reached 100k in their score. This would allow for a non landslide approach to servers crippled by a low population. It would also allow for a staggered degree of difficulty for servers who easily reach this cap.
• Time Cap – White swords would show on a camp or keep/tower ONLY after 2 minutes. This allows for the ninja taking of said place if a watch guard isn’t on duty. It would also allow for a response to said place although if it isn’t quick and close you’re probably gonna be outta luck.
• Defending Reward – With no white swords you are basically forcing people to have to sit in a camp, tower/keep and, not enjoy the full benefit of WvW. There has to be some kind of give and take. The amount of rank, points, rewards, and even dust missed out on due to sitting on guard is hurtful. So perhaps some kind of reward for staying within the confines of a camp, keep/tower for a certain amount of time? This area would need more thinking.

Another suggestion, white swords dependent on world score…
example in a match-up the scores are 100k, 50k, and 25k, white swords appear at the normal 30 second mark for the middle scoring server then for the higher and lower scoring server the delay for swords is altered based on that servers percentage of the middle servers score. that would mean for this set up our top scoring server would have to wait a full minute(double score = double delay) for swords to show on the map, but the bottom scoring server would see swords on their objectives after only 15 seconds(half score = half delay). This could allow lower population servers to mount responses more rapidly even without proper scouts, while servers dominating opponents will need to have sentries posted or they may not see swords at all.

alternate approach: use 232*amount of ticks since reset as the 30 second swords benchmark, so…
25 hours after wvw reset there should have been 100 ticks of points swords would appear at 30 seconds for a server with 23200 points and more slowly based as a percentage for servers over that score

Each person sees different things;

The good part of my current matchup is that a few 5-10 man guilds are having a lot of fun running about the map fighting smaller roaming groups.

The bad thing is that I have noticed a good number of the smaller roamer groups are either no longer WvWvWing or have gone to the map with our Zerg .

This change does seem pro small guild to me, I look forward to a vote prior to any reintroduction of this trial as permanent.

You’re also SoS, which is Tier 2 and borderline Tier 1. Thing about how this affects servers on lower tiers with smaller populations.

On lower tiers it makes match up more balanced and more interesting. People stopped staring at the map for hours in a semi-afk state and are now playing the game. Actively scouting.

Also, defending is a lot more interesting since group of any size will now try to ninja your stuff. Before this change, a small group would never even dream to attack one of your upgraded tower. Now they give it a try. It creates interesting fights and a lot of action all the time.

That has not been my experience in Tier 5 whatsoever. You also seem to be have a rather unique point of view from the lower tiers; most dislike the change immensely.

Gudradain.3892:

On lower tiers it makes match up more balanced and more interesting. People stopped staring at the map for hours in a semi-afk state and are now playing the game. Actively scouting.

Also, defending is a lot more interesting since group of any size will now try to ninja your stuff. Before this change, a small group would never even dream to attack one of your upgraded tower. Now they give it a try. It creates interesting fights and a lot of action all the time.

idk what you’ve been drinking but if you think this i doubt ur often in WvW or ur on the stacked server of your tier, most lower tiers who are underpopulated are hurt badly by this can’t hold anything cause lack of scouts

Shortly, mid tier server experience:
- funny at prime time, there’s a sort of coordination in map chat to know who’s scouting what;
- a pain out of prime time when lacking plp and you need to group up vs bigger groups.

Prime time is about 5-6h on 24h.

Great experience for servers with 24/24 coverage, for the others a little less :P

This change needed a coordinating change that made defense/scouting more rewarding. As it is now, very few want to sit in a tower/keep for an hour and maybe see some action.