Guild Wars 2

‘When I play my guardian and spam 1, I hit multiple targets and have no problem with retaliation, therefore retaliation is not an issue, and ranged classes need to l2p.’ This completely ignore the regen you have, and that you receive from every wave of that staff.

‘When I play my ranged classes, firing any skill into the hammer/staff spamming melee zerg ball can instantly bring me near death with them being 1200-1500 range away, making them the best ranged class there is- take no damage (or one hit each, easily covered by regen/heals) and kill all the ranged aoe.’

That’s basically the responses here so far, apart from those sensible ones who think that retal should have a maximum proc of one time per second per person.

Personally I decided to ‘main’ an engineer before perp runes came out because the variety of builds and playstyles is great.

When I start to get tired I can jump on my guardian, spam an aoe tagging everything without any fear of retal (my regen deals with it/I get healed by everything around me/my staff attacks heal everyone) and run around in a ball stampeding over those medium and light armored people who thought that skill should outweigh staff 1. And then I can come on forums and tell people who complain about retal to l2p…..

“Message Body length must be less than 5001.” <- lol quotes getting too long.

15 still seems low to me. I’ve seen streams of retal damage above my head before that lasted for a couple of seconds to finish scrolling. Side note… if you shoot down with piercing pistols it’ll cause an extra “pop” when it hits the ground… or if you’re on a flat surface it’ll “pop” an extra time at the end. That’s awesome if you’re doing small group stuff and can get the angles/distance right… but a very very bad idea to do while defending from a wall or something lol.

It’s obviously not all the time that it’s going to down you, but it’s those times when it can go to extremes that are the problem. Normal day to day 5 man groups (or whatever) are fine with retal. It just gets too strong once it’s scaled up into the zergballs. Like I do deal with it on my eng etc… but it’s pretty obvious to me how unbalanced it can get once the populations grow.

Victory.2879:

‘When I play my guardian and spam 1, I hit multiple targets and have no problem with retaliation, therefore retaliation is not an issue, and ranged classes need to l2p.’ This completely ignore the regen you have, and that you receive from every wave of that staff.

‘When I play my ranged classes, firing any skill into the hammer/staff spamming melee zerg ball can instantly bring me near death with them being 1200-1500 range away, making them the best ranged class there is- take no damage (or one hit each, easily covered by regen/heals) and kill all the ranged aoe.’

That’s basically the responses here so far, apart from those sensible ones who think that retal should have a maximum proc of one time per second per person.

Personally I decided to ‘main’ an engineer before perp runes came out because the variety of builds and playstyles is great.

When I start to get tired I can jump on my guardian, spam an aoe tagging everything without any fear of retal (my regen deals with it/I get healed by everything around me/my staff attacks heal everyone) and run around in a ball stampeding over those medium and light armored people who thought that skill should outweigh staff 1. And then I can come on forums and tell people who complain about retal to l2p…..

Staff #1 does not heal the players in any form (See attachment if you’re going to call me a liar), it is only a short range directional AoE. Staff #2 heals other players (If it passes through them or the orb is detonated within a certain distance) and Staff #4 does too at the end of its animation. To mention: Staff #2 is a horrible source of healing and is only intended as support. Staff #4 is good for a heal bomb and that is about it as it will not keep you alive unless partnered with AH. If you are using Altruistic Healing you are bad and should reconsider your life style.

The guardian’s ‘perma’ Regeneration comes from a virtue that should be down most of the time if you’re playing with a group. Guardians worth their weight are usually hybrid DPS and burst their first and third virtue at the beginning of a fight (depending on build) and virture #2 (which provides the 100~ heals a second) should be popped mid battle to help out team mates who might not be doing so well. The only regen you should be getting is from boons and those only negate two or three hits.

The best source of healing on the guardian are the near constant dodges you have. Getting 750+ Healing Power and a sigil or food that keeps your stamina up at a constant rate will do you more good than any of the heals your weapon skills can give you. Every roll will hand out over 800 health to, up to, five people (Not including yourself). Yesterday I rolled at least fifteen times in a fight and gave out over 40k heals to people around me.

At that, you say that you use your staff to mark everything. The only time your staff should be out is when you are on the offensive, people are spread out or everyone around you is dying (For downed player cleanup/kill tagging). Your main weapon should be out the rest of the time

If you really do run guardian often, remind me to avoid you as I doubt you really know how to play the class.

Not to go off topic or anything.

Victory.2879:

‘When I play my guardian and spam 1, I hit multiple targets and have no problem with retaliation, therefore retaliation is not an issue, and ranged classes need to l2p.’ This completely ignore the regen you have, and that you receive from every wave of that staff.

‘When I play my ranged classes, firing any skill into the hammer/staff spamming melee zerg ball can instantly bring me near death with them being 1200-1500 range away, making them the best ranged class there is- take no damage (or one hit each, easily covered by regen/heals) and kill all the ranged aoe.’

That’s basically the responses here so far, apart from those sensible ones who think that retal should have a maximum proc of one time per second per person.

Personally I decided to ‘main’ an engineer before perp runes came out because the variety of builds and playstyles is great.

When I start to get tired I can jump on my guardian, spam an aoe tagging everything without any fear of retal (my regen deals with it/I get healed by everything around me/my staff attacks heal everyone) and run around in a ball stampeding over those medium and light armored people who thought that skill should outweigh staff 1. And then I can come on forums and tell people who complain about retal to l2p…..

What I got from this post is…….“I run glass ele and I died because I didn’t watch my health bar” “I know nothing about guardians but staff 1 must be overpowered”.

dwahvel.7356:

Victory.2879:

‘When I play my guardian and spam 1, I hit multiple targets and have no problem with retaliation, therefore retaliation is not an issue, and ranged classes need to l2p.’ This completely ignore the regen you have, and that you receive from every wave of that staff.

‘When I play my ranged classes, firing any skill into the hammer/staff spamming melee zerg ball can instantly bring me near death with them being 1200-1500 range away, making them the best ranged class there is- take no damage (or one hit each, easily covered by regen/heals) and kill all the ranged aoe.’

That’s basically the responses here so far, apart from those sensible ones who think that retal should have a maximum proc of one time per second per person.

Personally I decided to ‘main’ an engineer before perp runes came out because the variety of builds and playstyles is great.

When I start to get tired I can jump on my guardian, spam an aoe tagging everything without any fear of retal (my regen deals with it/I get healed by everything around me/my staff attacks heal everyone) and run around in a ball stampeding over those medium and light armored people who thought that skill should outweigh staff 1. And then I can come on forums and tell people who complain about retal to l2p…..

What I got from this post is…….“I run glass ele and I died because I didn’t watch my health bar” “I know nothing about guardians but staff 1 must be overpowered”.

Even a tanky ele would get kittened up if they did a meteor storm into a group though… and there is no watching of the health bar. Once it’s cast you’re kittened. Unless you mean watch it drop like a stone?

His point about how easily mitigated aoe damage is by a group vs the damage that the ones producing the aoe take from retal is a valid point (despite other things in his post being incorrect).

Syktek.7912:

If you really do run guardian often, remind me to avoid you as I doubt you really know how to play the class.

Any Guardian worth their weight in WvW and operating in a moderate to large group WvW zerg environment that uses SoJ needs to learn to play their class, not going off topic or anything…..

Rigel.3092:

Syktek.7912:

If you really do run guardian often, remind me to avoid you as I doubt you really know how to play the class.

Any Guardian worth their weight in WvW and operating in a moderate to large group WvW zerg environment that uses SoJ needs to learn to play their class, not going off topic or anything…..

Signet of Judgement, when mass spammed (By multiple guardians), spreads weakness to the immediate area (Causing 50% of attacks to miss), stacks retaliation on all nearby friendlies. I do not use it for 10% damage reduction. Not to mention it also breaks stun.

I will not defend my usage of it past that.

Syktek.7912:

Rigel.3092:

Syktek.7912:

If you really do run guardian often, remind me to avoid you as I doubt you really know how to play the class.

Any Guardian worth their weight in WvW and operating in a moderate to large group WvW zerg environment that uses SoJ needs to learn to play their class, not going off topic or anything…..

Signet of Judgement, when mass spammed (By multiple guardians), spreads weakness to the immediate area (Causing 50% of attacks to miss), stacks retaliation on all nearby friendlies. I do not use it for 10% damage reduction. Not to mention it also breaks stun.

I will not defend my usage of it past that.

Weakness =‘s 50% glancing blows (half damage), not miss… the attacks still land but they don’t do as much direct damage.

So much off topic stuff xD

Am I the only one who thinks of splash damage as a blessing for gameplay and natural counter to bad position play and bad habits (zerging)? Zerging will never cease to exist until people die like locusts caught in a hurricane of flaming bits and bytes. Change retaliation to a personal thing. Turn it into something you apply to yourself and a designated target (like a symbol or something) . If you think aoe deals too much damage in wvw give players the ability to protect themselves (there are enough options already, tho), but don’t promote a counter to a counter. Counter play is what renders games interesting.

Skyllar.3562:

My guildies used to run zerker ele’s, (bad word filter block)hitting for 7-8k per meteor, and somehow managed to survive.

Math doesn’t support you. You will not see 7-8k meteor showers reliably consistently or ever unless hitting uplevelled. There is a way to make it happen now more frequently on people in zerker gear / light armor …but the stars till have to align to allow the ele to get their damage bonuses (bolt/tempest defense/etc.).

dwahvel.7356:

What I got from this post is…….“I run glass ele and I died because I didn’t watch my health bar” “I know nothing about guardians but staff 1 must be overpowered”.

What I get from your post is that you didnt read or pay attention to the other posts before spouting off.

Full soldiers gear at the tradeoff of hitting like a wet noodle and still go from full health to dead/spamming mist form in a second or 2 on an ability we can’t stop once its started.

My main is er was a ranger I am now mainly a guardian although not once has retal been a problem for my ranger. Barraging zergs, using piercing arrow etc. How ever as a guardian it is a problem as it is not reflecting the damage back to the attacker. Wakitten for 8k a short while back and I took that 8k damage and reflected around 230 points of damage back. That is wrong, should do as described reflect the damage back meaning I take 0 and they take it all.

Aberrant.6749:

I think that 10 times per 10s is a bit weak tbh… like… I’m not even asking for that much. 10 times per 2s would be a VAST improvement.

Hell, 10x per SECOND would be a huge improvement. I think I would be ok even with 20 ticks per second, because at least then it wouldn’t eat through my entire health pool instantly.

A ‘tanky’ ele (tanky is laughable in its own right with all nerfs since release :p ) will max out at about 24k health with stacks… roughly. Remember, lowest health pool and armor combination in the entire game…..

One meteor shower against a coordinated enemy blob that is keeping retal may result in the entire health pool of that ‘tanky’ ele going from 24k health to 0 in a second or 2. The only recourse being to keep from getting downed by using a single AoE ability designed for that EXACT purpose is to mist form, because you cant stop the meteors…

Yeah sure, run 20 necros to strip the retal that is being put back up right away anyways by a coordinated blob…. blah blah blah, whatever. Garbage responses, all of them. Every bit of coordination a good team uses is also going to be used by good opponents they fight.

No need to nerf retal damage…. no need to take away abilities that give it. Simply cap the amount of ticks you can take to it per second to something reasonable and balanced.

Is that number 1 per second? No. WAY too low.

Is that number unlimited per second? WAY to freaking high.

How about 10 ticks per second? 15? Is that reasonable?

Most of the complaining I see here is in the form of zerging. Anything the zerg ball hates and encourages them so split up/play smarter I am all for.

I run guard in our 5 man and see no problem with retal. Against larger numbers it’s a great way to tick down the larger groups health while still focus firing single targets. Occasionally yeah we get screwed when a huge group has it stacked, usually it’s our own fault for not disengaging and trying a new approach.

For those engi’s complaining I have to giggle. You’re upset because there’s a counter to you sitting in the back lineand dropping LOL damage with zero risk…you poor things! Our engi does just fine staying alive so it seems its a l2p issue.

If you nerf retal even more just delete guard entirely. With our lack of mobility and ranged dmg options we already are at a significant disadvantage in a lot of situations, nerfing retal even more would be overkill.

TLDR: Please don’t make the game any easier for the carebear crowd.

Linkisdead.9647:

Most of the complaining I see here is in the form of zerging. Anything the zerg ball hates and encourages them so split up/play smarter I am all for.

I run guard in our 5 man and see no problem with retal. Against larger numbers it’s a great way to tick down the larger groups health while still focus firing single targets. Occasionally yeah we get screwed when a huge group has it stacked, usually it’s our own fault for not disengaging and trying a new approach.

For those engi’s complaining I have to giggle. You’re upset because there’s a counter to you sitting in the back lineand dropping LOL damage with zero risk…you poor things! Our engi does just fine staying alive so it seems its a l2p issue.

If you nerf retal even more just delete guard entirely. With our lack of mobility and ranged dmg options we already are at a significant disadvantage in a lot of situations, nerfing retal even more would be overkill.

TLDR: Please don’t make the game any easier for the carebear crowd.

You got it backwards. Retal benefits large mindless zergs because it hurts their natural counter, which is AOE. This is not a L2P issue for anyone — getting better as an ele or engy or whatever won’t make a difference. The whole point of AOE is to discourage players from clumping together, and the tradeoff to AOE is that it generally does less damage than single-target attacks. The 5-man AOE limit already gives zerg balls a lot of passive protection against AOEs. Adding retal on top of that makes the zerg balls even more powerful.

Solution: The amount of ticks the attacker takes from retal should be capped, so you only get hit by retal a max of 5 times per second. The cap is per-person, so if you have retaliation on yourself and 20 people attack you, you can theoretically deal out 100 retal ticks per second. In other words, if the attacker cast an AOE into a retal zerg, he’ll take about 1.5k damage per second. That’s fair. Being a mesmer and casting feedback in front of a zerg and instantly dying is not.

Right now, the only real counter to a retal zergball is to run your own retal zergball. The skill then boils down to which zerg is more coordinated and mobile. This is a pretty simple and obvious fact, and one that’s been demonstrated consistently by the T1 WvW guilds. This isn’t a L2P issue. It’s a “get your own zerg” issue.

So you’re for anything that breaks the zergball up, yet current retaliation implementation keeps the zergball together. If you’re ranged aoe engy’s are doing fine staying alive then good for them, but they’re providing nothing for you team if they can’t attack. I can stay alive all day on my engy, but in the current meta I’m better off playing my necro and frontlining with the guardians. Really, what’s the point of a ranged aoe class that can never use their ranged aoe abilities without fear of killing themselves. Engy’s can’t use pistol, nades, or FT in large scale combat due to the fact that retaliation has no cap whereas everything else in this game is subject to ICDs and 25 max stacks. So what’s left for the engineer to do? Can’t really frontline bombs b/c the stealth and fire fields will screw up the water/light fields. Retaliation is fine in small group and solo play. It’s just the unlimited nature of buff that is broken in big group play. That would be easy to fix with a per second cap. I’d even take a cap of 15 so it wouldn’t affect small group play at all, but would at least allow my engineer to not kill himself with 1 barrage into a zerg. AoE damage is the mechanic that should break up zergballs. For now, I’ll continue to faceroll my frontline necro and wipe scrubs with or without retaliation even if it is more boring than my engy.

With a 5 man AoE cap I fail to see how it’s a zerg counter. Anyone running in a small man knows AOE is great and all but half the people in the AOE range aren’t even getting touched. Retal hits everyone who hits you, obviously retal also helps the zerg because everything in this game helps the zerg.

The difference is the zerg ball has a lot of players who don’t pay attention and thus get punished for it where our 5 man notices the giant symbols flying all over the place and adjusts to it.

Again I am 100% for anything that punishes button spammers. It will occasionally bite me in the kitten as well, but I will take it because more often than not it’s working in our favor.

Linkisdead.9647:

With a 5 man AoE cap I fail to see how it’s a zerg counter. Anyone running in a small man knows AOE is great and all but half the people in the AOE range aren’t even getting touched.

AOE is a zerg counter even with a 5-man cap because hitting 5 people is still more damage than hitting 2-3 people (which is what would realistically happen if large groups split up). The 5-man cap makes it so that AOE doesn’t completely obliterate zergs. In other words, AOE is a soft counter to zerging. I’m fine with that.

Linkisdead.9647:

The difference is the zerg ball has a lot of players who don’t pay attention and thus get punished for it where our 5 man notices the giant symbols flying all over the place and adjusts to it.

Right, which is why retal benefits zergs more than small groups. The zerg doesn’t have to pay attention, yet you have to stop attacking to avoid the retal procs. And if the zerg has enough blast finishers, it can maintain retal permanently. If the amount of retal damage you took was capped, you could instead use AOEs to punish players for not paying attention.

I guess that’s why some of us would like to see a cap in the amount of ticks one can take per second. If I’m in small group play and toss a grenade barrage, and someone pops retaliation while the nades are in the air, I’ll take retaliation damage most likely for more than my grenades hit for. I’m fine with that, because I can adjust to the situation. A cap per second wouldn’t change that scenario. However in a zergball, currently if I were to try a barrage, I could potentially be hit for 40 ticks of retaliation. That’s around 12k damage I would take for using an ability that was designed to be used in that exact circumstance. The same goes for all the other grenade skills. A cap would at least allow me to manage when to use the abilities. As for now, I just can’t use them at all, and even if I do, the downtime while healing back up is a liability to my team.

PS, I play in a large T1 guild that runs a guardian heavy melee train. I’ve tried very hard to make my engy work with this meta, but it’s just not feasible when I can run a frontline necro that does way more aoe damage and lives in the safety of the guardian zergball. Now, retaliation isn’t the primary factor of why this meta is the way it is, but it sure helps.

To allow a blob of people to kill an enemy through passive damage without player involvement is terrible design.

Unfortunately since this only effects WvW, and not sPvP, the balance devs don’t give a kitten.

It is becoming a bigger problem now that everyone runs a guardian in wvw. Ironically it will chase away more staff eles who…..usually become guardian. Like me. Further enhancing the problem.

Earlier today I killed myself yet again through retaliation (ele). By the time I finish my aoe combo, it barely has started damaging! So there is nothing to stop me from losing my hp. I am sick of cancelling meteor showers. It seems so unfair that the guys hurting me usually arent even aware that they do! Add to that that in order to even pull off the combo I need to stand still on top of a wall for about 5 seconds, use stability to finish it or die. So retal is not eating up my 15k hp (so NOT glass cannon), but whatever hp i have left at that point. I shouldn’t have to mistform or even use my heal skill for doing aoe on a door from the inside, that is silly.

covenn.7165:

Hell, 10x per SECOND would be a huge improvement. I think I would be ok even with 20 ticks per second, because at least then it wouldn’t eat through my entire health pool instantly.

A ‘tanky’ ele (tanky is laughable in its own right with all nerfs since release :p ) will max out at about 24k health with stacks… roughly. Remember, lowest health pool and armor combination in the entire game…..

One meteor shower against a coordinated enemy blob that is keeping retal may result in the entire health pool of that ‘tanky’ ele going from 24k health to 0 in a second or 2. The only recourse being to keep from getting downed by using a single AoE ability designed for that EXACT purpose is to mist form, because you cant stop the meteors…

Yeah sure, run 20 necros to strip the retal that is being put back up right away anyways by a coordinated blob…. blah blah blah, whatever. Garbage responses, all of them. Every bit of coordination a good team uses is also going to be used by good opponents they fight.

No need to nerf retal damage…. no need to take away abilities that give it. Simply cap the amount of ticks you can take to it per second to something reasonable and balanced.

Is that number 1 per second? No. WAY too low.

Is that number unlimited per second? WAY to freaking high.

How about 10 ticks per second? 15? Is that reasonable?

I think this is how many feel… it’s not that people want it to be nerfed into the ground, just given SOME kitten thing to put a cap on it even if that cap is pretty high.

Aberrant.6749:

covenn.7165:

Hell, 10x per SECOND would be a huge improvement. I think I would be ok even with 20 ticks per second, because at least then it wouldn’t eat through my entire health pool instantly.

A ‘tanky’ ele (tanky is laughable in its own right with all nerfs since release :p ) will max out at about 24k health with stacks… roughly. Remember, lowest health pool and armor combination in the entire game…..

One meteor shower against a coordinated enemy blob that is keeping retal may result in the entire health pool of that ‘tanky’ ele going from 24k health to 0 in a second or 2. The only recourse being to keep from getting downed by using a single AoE ability designed for that EXACT purpose is to mist form, because you cant stop the meteors…

Yeah sure, run 20 necros to strip the retal that is being put back up right away anyways by a coordinated blob…. blah blah blah, whatever. Garbage responses, all of them. Every bit of coordination a good team uses is also going to be used by good opponents they fight.

No need to nerf retal damage…. no need to take away abilities that give it. Simply cap the amount of ticks you can take to it per second to something reasonable and balanced.

Is that number 1 per second? No. WAY too low.

Is that number unlimited per second? WAY to freaking high.

How about 10 ticks per second? 15? Is that reasonable?

I think this is how many feel… it’s not that people want it to be nerfed into the ground, just given SOME kitten thing to put a cap on it even if that cap is pretty high.

I strongly dislike caps. I also don’t think retal needs a nerf, it needs a buff. Currently, as many in this thread have said, they don’t even worry about it. That needs to change, it should be a buff that punishes everyone for hitting that target, not just some classes using some skills.

By shortening the durations and changing the scaling, then making it based on condition damage (just like confusion), you could fix multiple problems. First would be the complete lack of a condition damage spec for guardian. To throw out made up numbers (as in not balanced/thought out), what if at 0 con damage retal hit for 5 damage, and at 1500 con it hit for 1000 damage.

Sarsbear.3469:

Aberrant.6749:

covenn.7165:

Hell, 10x per SECOND would be a huge improvement. I think I would be ok even with 20 ticks per second, because at least then it wouldn’t eat through my entire health pool instantly.

A ‘tanky’ ele (tanky is laughable in its own right with all nerfs since release :p ) will max out at about 24k health with stacks… roughly. Remember, lowest health pool and armor combination in the entire game…..

One meteor shower against a coordinated enemy blob that is keeping retal may result in the entire health pool of that ‘tanky’ ele going from 24k health to 0 in a second or 2. The only recourse being to keep from getting downed by using a single AoE ability designed for that EXACT purpose is to mist form, because you cant stop the meteors…

Yeah sure, run 20 necros to strip the retal that is being put back up right away anyways by a coordinated blob…. blah blah blah, whatever. Garbage responses, all of them. Every bit of coordination a good team uses is also going to be used by good opponents they fight.

No need to nerf retal damage…. no need to take away abilities that give it. Simply cap the amount of ticks you can take to it per second to something reasonable and balanced.

Is that number 1 per second? No. WAY too low.

Is that number unlimited per second? WAY to freaking high.

How about 10 ticks per second? 15? Is that reasonable?

I think this is how many feel… it’s not that people want it to be nerfed into the ground, just given SOME kitten thing to put a cap on it even if that cap is pretty high.

I strongly dislike caps. I also don’t think retal needs a nerf, it needs a buff. Currently, as many in this thread have said, they don’t even worry about it. That needs to change, it should be a buff that punishes everyone for hitting that target, not just some classes using some skills.

By shortening the durations and changing the scaling, then making it based on condition damage (just like confusion), you could fix multiple problems. First would be the complete lack of a condition damage spec for guardian. To throw out made up numbers (as in not balanced/thought out), what if at 0 con damage retal hit for 5 damage, and at 1500 con it hit for 1000 damage.

Well those that don’t worry about it are playing classes that don’t need to worry about it… while others are playing classes that are VERY disproportionately damaged by it. That’s why I keep saying it’s unbalanced. It’s not OP… it just doesn’t work in any sort of a way that’s remotely balanced between these classes. I agree that it doesn’t do enough against certain classes… my thief/guard/mes don’t care if they have retal up… my eng/ele on the other hand…

There are several methods people have mentioned which would help balance it, I’m in favor of several of them but it would need to be done very carefully as to not cause it to be nerfed, just balanced.

Long long ago siege used to be damaged by retal. People would pop retal and just watch ac’s blow up… and the blobs were much smaller back then. The same thing still happens to players that use aoe… and retal is stacked on more people now…

People are asking for balance in WvW… which will never happen… so you don’t have much to worry about if you’re against it anyways… but I enjoyed the conversations.

1000 damage at 1500 condition damage- wouldn’t that be just great for anyone using an aoe on the people in your zerg who received your buff….rangers would die before they even finish casting their rooted to the spot barrage (as opposed to being almost dead after it finishes).

Retaliation gets very tiresome on any ranged class- which is why you see less and less of them as more and more people just give up and join the melee train.

Recent true situation: comm asks for a mesmer, we have one reply from whole map, asks for eles, we have two. Runs up to gate, says ‘kill that cannon’ at which point 90% of the players stand around doing nothing as they are either in combat and unable to equip their bow/rifle as warriors or scepter(?) as guardians.

Oh and those that say I play a noob guardian build- you are right, I play a strange build as I’m not running in a co ordinated guild group when I’m on it, and half the time the only stability on our group is from me! It is fun running through the opposition melee train though spamming away merrily (ok, ok, yes, I do switch to hammer for giggles) with not a thought to anything and with retal having 0 effect on me.

If only the devs played a ranged class in wvw against a melee train, then we’d see a cap per second faster than you can blink- but as they all seem to main thiefs, etc the chances of getting one any time soon seem remote.

Hey guys L2P I aoe zerg with retal but I never die of it BECAUSE I KNOW HOW TO AVOID IT : and btw watch your ennemy buff before casting anything helps also.

Titan.3472:

Hey guys L2P I aoe zerg with retal but I never die of it BECAUSE I KNOW HOW TO AVOID IT : and btw watch your ennemy buff before casting anything helps also.

Hey how about you L2P and stop being so condescending …I don’t die to retal either because I save mist form for it and maximize my defense. Good luck picking out retal buffs on a 50 person blob and deciding if enough people have the buff to kill you when you meteor shower triggers 40 ticks in a single second.

Perfectly balanced. Hit a few people for a very manageable 2-3k …take 20k damage in return instantly. We need more counters to blobbing, not less…. perhaps l2p and you would realize that?

I still don’t understand why retal affects reflection attacks…it seems silly to me.