Guild Wars 2

I admit the first month or so (last August…), stealth stomps were pretty frustrating. It was like being donkey punched after being cheesed. Fact is though that in a 1v1 or such, when you’re downed, the fight is over unless you rally from PvE, which is even dumber. In a situation where a thief stealth stomps while people are trying to heal you, they should have smart enough to either use CC or drop what damage they could on the spot, unless they could res faster than the stomp channel. At least 3 of 4 thieves run fragile D/D or D/P builds that will melt if you try to stomp taking big hits.

In case no one has mentioned it, black powder is actually way OP for combat stomping. It blocks all 5 of the classes that have CC stomp stoppers when the down player triggers their skill blind, and it blinds anyone trying to use melee range CC. You can also use it quickly if someone has already started stomping to make sure they get it, and of course leap out for stealth if there’s still combat going on.

All I can say is LOL at this thread and all who agreed with it…. 1st of all stealth stomping doesn’t mean we cannot be interrupted AND we can still be damaged.. 2nd engi, ele, warr, guard can stomp uninterrupted and unscathed via shrink potion, mist form, stability even invulnerability… sooo before you guys complain about stealth stomping check on other classes that don’t use stealth.. I myself use shadowstep instead of stealth for stomps you might want to nerf that too eh?

Genocide.4506:

All I can say is LOL at this thread and all who agreed with it…. 1st of all stealth stomping doesn’t mean we cannot be interrupted AND we can still be damaged.. 2nd engi, ele, warr, guard can stomp uninterrupted and unscathed via shrink potion, mist form, stability even invulnerability… sooo before you guys complain about stealth stomping check on other classes that don’t use stealth.. I myself use shadowstep instead of stealth for stomps you might want to nerf that too eh?

All of those have already been brought up. I, and many others, agree that every one of them needs to be changed.

Genocide.4506:

All I can say is LOL at this thread and all who agreed with it…. 1st of all stealth stomping doesn’t mean we cannot be interrupted AND we can still be damaged.. 2nd engi, ele, warr, guard can stomp uninterrupted and unscathed via shrink potion, mist form, stability even invulnerability… sooo before you guys complain about stealth stomping check on other classes that don’t use stealth.. I myself use shadowstep instead of stealth for stomps you might want to nerf that too eh?

elixir s has an untraited cooldown of 60 seconds, mistform has 75 seconds. if you would have a similar cooldown on your stealth, then yes, stealth stomp would be fine.

thats also the reason why i think shadowstep-stomp is fine: it has a reasonably long cooldown.

It’s true that you CAN be interrupted theoretically, but as a downed player with a rupt that you have to target (like necro, warrior), it’s pretty much the same.

Obscure One.4357:

You went down, you already lost, getting stomped whilst it’s covered by invuln, stability, or stealth is not the source of the problem. It’s like complaining that the guy who just hit a homerun gets to run the bases and you cant do anything about it.

Exactly. If you get downed by anyone, you deserve to die. That’s how the game should work. Removing special stomps only promotes bad players with better downed abilites or people who got downed in a Xv1 and use numbers to triumph skill. If I were to have a say, I’d promote removing the downed state from the game. No reason why numbers/abilities like vengeance/pet heal should give you the advantage after the other players already downed you.

Invul/stability/stealth/block/blind stomp need to stay in this game.

Learn to play, don’t get downed in the first place.

mrstealth.6701:

I never paid attention enough to notice that. That’s a bad mechanic, but it does kind of make sense from a technical/coding perspective. Must be resetting your tagging of the player along with the temp rallying effect Vapor gives them.

Does doing damage to them before you re-attempt the stomp give you credit?

No it doesn’t. In groups we often just damage kill the ele at that point since it’s usually faster anyways.

@ ilr

As far as removing stealth and stability when you stomp… no. Even a block can stop some classes from being able to prevent a stomp… and those shouldn’t be stripped either. Those all have a cost to them and shouldn’t be nullified because you got downed and are now getting stomped.

@ RashanDale

I pop elixir S, distortion, or mist form right in front of everyone and they still can’t do a kitten thing about it despite having 20+ people attacking me. It gives me a happy chuckle to see the massive stream of immune’s above my head. S/Dist/Mist have a longer cooldown because the effect is SO much stronger. It’s not even comparable.

IMO the downed skills that give 100% or near 100% immunity from the first stomp should be applied across the board to all classes or have those toned down. There is too much imbalance in the downed state as is (somewhat relevant).

Stealth stomp is fine, Perma stealth is not.

PS : as many have said, if you’re downed, consider yourself dead. ;-)

what is with this sentiment?

it’s totally counter to how this game works

downed is not dead

that’s the point of downed

EDIT:

Furthermore, the entire point of stealth/etc. stomping is to be able to stomp people in situations where instead that person would otherwise be able to get back up. Which is kind of a big deal, especially in wvw roamer fights.

Stealth stomping, and all other “OP” stomping is fine…Mainly because if you are downed you obviously have lost already. Only chance you have (assuming no one is there to rez you, and you aren’t tagging PVE mobs) is if the guy is already way low on HP.

Then you have two downed people spamming downed skills at each other…Just die and run back, its not that big of a deal. There are way more irritating things about this game.

except thats utter nonsense,

if you’ve lost already then stealth/etc. stomping is pointless

it only makes a difference if you havent lost already

Titan.3472:

I think it’s not the first time I see that thread subject.

Indeed, but you aren’t allowed to bump old threads on the topic, but you aren’t allowed to post new threads on the topic. Hypocrisy abounds! Here is the nonsense Anet emailed me. “Current, active thread”, needs more clarity -first page? First 10 pages? Within a month? What is current?

Greetings,

While you are correct that common courtesy dictates you post in an existing thread on a topic before opening a new one, this courtesy applies to active threads on the forum. [..] Posting in a thread that has been inactive for this long is called “necroposting” and is frowned upon. If you are unable to find a current, active thread on a topic you would like to discuss, then by all means start a new one. However, it is very rarely acceptable to bring back a thread from last year in order to make a point.

Mark Katzbach
Community Special Operations
ArenaNet — Guild Wars 2

Anyway, I agree with the OP, stealth needs to break much more easily. Giving invisibility to a class with super high damage is an invitation for trolling. The stealth stomp is a symptom of Arenanet’s lack of forethought on this topic, yet a simple fix has been available forever and they haven’t shown any remorse over the decision to leave these awful mechanics in the game. Working as intended, thus it is clear that Arenanet’s intention is to have a troll class that can kill people from a position of impunity.

Shoe.5821:

PS : as many have said, if you’re downed, consider yourself dead. ;-)

what is with this sentiment?

it’s totally counter to how this game works

downed is not dead

that’s the point of downed

EDIT:

Furthermore, the entire point of stealth/etc. stomping is to be able to stomp people in situations where instead that person would otherwise be able to get back up. Which is kind of a big deal, especially in wvw roamer fights.

The only situation where I can even begin to accept the “you’re already lost” argument is a 1v1. And even then, the downed mechanic is part of the game. You haven’t lost till you are defeated. You haven’t lost anything in a group fight if half a dozen people are involved in downing you. Getting down in a fight like that happens. As I’ve said before, a huge part of the downed mechanic is giving your allies a chance to revive you.

Let’s just look at the “already lost” argument from the other side. You’ve already gotten them into their weak downed state. If you’ve “already won”, it should easy to finish them off. If you can’t do that without stealth or some form of invulnerability, how can you say you’ve already won?

Shoe.5821:

except thats utter nonsense,

if you’ve lost already then stealth/etc. stomping is pointless

it only makes a difference if you havent lost already

It’s not pointless at all. It helps negate the ability of people to waste time by knocking you back, pulling you, or just generally interrupting the stomp simply for the sake of interrupting the stomp when they are already down and have no hope of being rezed.

Same reason people pop Stability or Invulnerability when stomping….Sure sometimes it is to negate dmg from bystanders, but people do it all the time in 1v1s too. The reason being is why prolong the stomp? Why let someone waste time trying to faceroll every useless downstate skill, only to be stomped anyway afterwards?

It’s fine. You’ve already lost if you’re in downed state. Mist form and other invul skills are much more OP for stomping.

but all it does in that case is delay things it makes no difference

one time in ten a warrior last stand might make a difference but otherwise? no.

and honestly 1v1s are pretty rare in WvW anyway.

Only way your downed skills would have helped you win is if the stomper had been a really, really bad player.

Not so. Whether or not downed skills help you is completely dependent on the stomper’s hp, the class of the downed player, and whether or not the stomper is using one of aforementioned skills to make the stomp. It’s fair to point a finger at stealth stomps because thieves commit virtually no resource to conduct said stomp, whereas most classes at least commit a CD.

Downed skills arn’t intended to ‘win’ anyway, theyre intended to delay while someone helps you up. Or to buy time/finish off a wounded enemy for a rally.

“You were downed, you lost” only makes sense in the context of 1v1 fights.

Shoe.5821:

but all it does in that case is delay things it makes no difference

one time in ten a warrior last stand might make a difference but otherwise? no.

and honestly 1v1s are pretty rare in WvW anyway.

Only way your downed skills would have helped you win is if the stomper had been a really, really bad player.

Not so. Whether or not downed skills help you is completely dependent on the stomper’s hp, the class of the downed player, and whether or not the stomper is using one of aforementioned skills to make the stomp. It’s fair to point a finger at stealth stomps because thieves commit virtually no resource to conduct said stomp, whereas most classes at least commit a CD.

Downed skills arn’t intended to ‘win’ anyway, theyre intended to delay while someone helps you up. Or to buy time/finish off a wounded enemy for a rally.

“You were downed, you lost” only makes sense in the context of 1v1 fights.

I think part of the issue is that many people hate the downed state system in its entirety in PVP/WvW. With that in mind I don’t have much of an issue with being stealth stomped or stealth stomping.

1v1s are very common, if you are looking for them.

Shoe.5821:

but all it does in that case is delay things it makes no difference

one time in ten a warrior last stand might make a difference but otherwise? no.

and honestly 1v1s are pretty rare in WvW anyway.

Only way your downed skills would have helped you win is if the stomper had been a really, really bad player.

Not so. Whether or not downed skills help you is completely dependent on the stomper’s hp, the class of the downed player, and whether or not the stomper is using one of aforementioned skills to make the stomp. It’s fair to point a finger at stealth stomps because thieves commit virtually no resource to conduct said stomp, whereas most classes at least commit a CD.

Downed skills arn’t intended to ‘win’ anyway, theyre intended to delay while someone helps you up. Or to buy time/finish off a wounded enemy for a rally.

“You were downed, you lost” only makes sense in the context of 1v1 fights.

You lost because you were downed.

It wasn’t stealth.

You lost because you did not get the other player downed first.

It isn’t any kind of mechanic.

You wouldn’t have been able to do anything against invulnerability.

Please stop blaming the game for something that isn’t the fault of the game.

You lost because the other player out played you and downed you first.

And this whole thing about how a class can spam something isn’t a reason to modify a mechanic for stomping.

You lost because you were downed first and would have just as easily been stomped by any other means.

Downed skills only delay the inevitable.

Just accept that when you are downed, you are going to loose.

Doesn’t matter what situation. If you get up in a zerg, that is because someone spiked another player. Removing stealth stomp would not change this so any argument that team effort is moot. Actually, stealth stomp is the easiest for any of your team mates to help deal with. If they didn’t, well again it wasn’t stealth stomp but a problem with your team.

I’m tired of this vendetta against stealth. It isn’t hard to deal with and in cases of stomping, you either have teammates that are going to get you up because you can just as easily have a thief blind the stealth stomper or SR you when downed.

Oh, you don’t have a thief to do that for you, how about someone else that can blast the area because even if the thief is a blind spammer, some stuff does work because blind only blinds those that were in the range of blind or someone that hasn’t entered any blind field. So, again, it isn’t stealth that is the problem.

The problem with stomping is the person getting stomped didn’t down the other player first. That is all there is to it.

IMO thieves/mesmers using stealth for stomping is viable… why? because it was part of the game from the start, people need to realize that this is not a problem and need to accept they got outplayed, downed, and finished in stealth….

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

You lost because you were downed.
You lost because you were downed first and would have just as easily been stomped by any other means.

Downed skills only delay the inevitable.

Just accept that when you are downed, you are going to loose.

Doesn’t matter what situation. If you get up in a zerg, that is because someone spiked another player.

Let’s just turn that around a bit.
“If you get downed in a zerg that’s because you got spiked by other players”
I’m not sure what kind of teammates you usually end up with in a zerg, but reviving downed players is a rather common and smart thing to do.

Outside of a 1 on 1 fight, downed is not “losing”
Outside of a 1 on 1 fight, death is not inevitable. It’s not even inevitable in a 1 on 1, it’s just the most likely outcome.

You got downed… You earned that stealth stomp

Natronix.9827:

I say kitten no.

If they get rid of stealth stomp, go ahead and remove: mesmer invulnerable stomp, mist form stomp, stability stomp, portal stomp, etc.

Sounds silly doesn’t it? So does what you’re asking for. Its just part of the class that killed you.

That sounds like a fantastic idea actually; none of those should be in the game. The difference however with stealth stomp and the others is.. you guessed it, you can’t touch them when their stealthed, and no can your teammates.

I know the next thing out of your mouth is going to be “do you really expect to win” “do you expect attacking them to make a difference”.. yes my pet has downed dozens of people while in stability trying to spike me. My teammates as well.

First thing to go should be stealth stomp, then the rest. The best solution is to just remove downed state all together, it’s just for really bad players anyway.

ilr.9675:

It’s a really simple and FAIR fix: You start the stomp animation??… You instantly lose stealth and stability. It’s that simple. A little Risk with your reward just like how every other encounter is designed.

This would be cool with me.

mrstealth.6701:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

You lost because you were downed.
You lost because you were downed first and would have just as easily been stomped by any other means.

Downed skills only delay the inevitable.

Just accept that when you are downed, you are going to loose.

Doesn’t matter what situation. If you get up in a zerg, that is because someone spiked another player.

Let’s just turn that around a bit.
“If you get downed in a zerg that’s because you got spiked by other players”
I’m not sure what kind of teammates you usually end up with in a zerg, but reviving downed players is a rather common and smart thing to do.

Outside of a 1 on 1 fight, downed is not “losing”
Outside of a 1 on 1 fight, death is not inevitable. It’s not even inevitable in a 1 on 1, it’s just the most likely outcome.

You were downed, you lost. You have to be very lucky, and luck is the only thing in your favor if you get up before a spike.

While resing can be done in a zerg fight, if you were able to do that, you were either winning the fight or the other side was not doing a very good job of killing people.

Either way, stealth was not the problem.

The OP lost several fights because they were downed first, not stealth stomped. Trying to argue that stealth stomp is the problem is living in a state of denial.

DeadlySynz.3471:

The difference however with stealth stomp and the others is.. you guessed it, you can’t touch them when their stealthed, and no can your teammates.

This is completely wrong.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

I can and have saved my team when they were about to be stealth stomped because I can and do use skills that allow me to knock the stomper away from stomping because there are plenty of skills that can and do effect the stealthed person.

Hammer #4. Fear Me. Warrior Stomp Skill. Earthshaker. That is just warrior.

Stealth does not grant invulnerability.

Stealth does not grant stability.

You are completely wrong and misinformation like this needs to stop. If I could report for such, I would because this is getting ridiculous with this kind of false information.

Even if you feel that downed does not mean beaten, you have to agree that the advantage is supposed to go to the one standing. To make it so no class can stomp vs cc is ridiculous and shifts the advantage to the stompee. Also, as many have stated, unless the thief uses shadow refuge, their stealth will wear off before they complete the stomp.

VidurrRedhands.1964:

Even if you feel that downed does not mean beaten, you have to agree that the advantage is supposed to go to the one standing. To make it so no class can stomp vs cc is ridiculous and shifts the advantage to the stompee. Also, as many have stated, unless the thief uses shadow refuge, their stealth will wear off before they complete the stomp.

How long does stomp animation take to complete? CND stealth lasts for kitten unless stomping takes longer than 4 seconds it shouldn’t be an issue.

Excalibur.9748:

VidurrRedhands.1964:

Even if you feel that downed does not mean beaten, you have to agree that the advantage is supposed to go to the one standing. To make it so no class can stomp vs cc is ridiculous and shifts the advantage to the stompee. Also, as many have stated, unless the thief uses shadow refuge, their stealth will wear off before they complete the stomp.

How long does stomp animation take to complete? CND stealth lasts for kitten unless stomping takes longer than 4 seconds it shouldn’t be an issue.

It wears off just when the stomp is completed if the thief is traited for extra second on stealth if they used a CnD stealth. Some thieves like to use quickness with their stomp if it is off cool down.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

DeadlySynz.3471:

The difference however with stealth stomp and the others is.. you guessed it, you can’t touch them when their stealthed, and no can your teammates.

This is completely wrong.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

I can and have saved my team when they were about to be stealth stomped because I can and do use skills that allow me to knock the stomper away from stomping because there are plenty of skills that can and do effect the stealthed person.

Hammer #4. Fear Me. Warrior Stomp Skill. Earthshaker. That is just warrior.

Stealth does not grant invulnerability.

Stealth does not grant stability.

You are completely wrong and misinformation like this needs to stop. If I could report for such, I would because this is getting ridiculous with this kind of false information.

I suggest then you grab someone from another server and test it out. Already tried it and it doesn’t work (with warrior). Sorry to break it to you.

Some advice for future posts.. just don’t post.

DeadlySynz.3471:

[…]The difference however with stealth stomp and the others is.. you guessed it, you can’t touch them when their stealthed, and no can your teammates.[…]

Completely utterly wrong. Any AoE skill affects stealthed players too like any other. Stealth itself makes you unablte to select your the stealthed opponent. However, anthing that doesn’t need a selected target to hit (and there are tons of skills like that in GW2) hits the same, as if he wasn’t invisible.

If what you said was true, you could not fear, push or pull some1 out of shadow refuge, but you can.

You, sir, are spreading missinformation to support your message. It makes your whole message stand on a shaky ground.

Wow, so much anger in this thread and it seems to be causing too many people to miss the point. Downed isn’t dead. In fact, far from it. Anet has designed the game in multiple ways to make it easy to rally. They really want to give you a second chance to get up and fight. Personally, I think they give too much of chance, but we’ll need a separate thread for the “I shot a downed player 6 times with a ballista and he self-resurrected” discussion. If I get beat in a 1v1, the person who downed me had better have more than 3-4K health left if they are silly enough to come over and try to stomp me, because that’s how much damage I can do in the 3-4 seconds it takes them to run over and finish the stomp. At that point I rally, with more health than they had a few seconds ago, dodge roll backward, and unleash everything. I think it’s kind of lame, but that’s the game’s philosophy. Why do you think the stomp animation is so obvious and so long? Interrupt me! Kill me now!

As mentioned by several people, the issue with the stealth stomp is downed players cannot target the stamper. You probably should lose anyway, but at least you can throw some dirt or some screws at the guy for a few seconds more. However, in a 1v1 situation, that’s a fatal problem, and it only applies to one class. That doesn’t seem to be in balance and it runs contrary to overall theme of having a good chance to get up from a downed state. The stealth stomp is not the same as the invinci stomp or any of the others mentioned, as they all come with very long cool downs. That’s the balance. If somebody wants to keep their obsidian flesh in their pocket for an entire fight, just to use it on the stomp, that’s a tactical decision. I don’t mind the invincible stomp. You get to use it once — you beat me — and didn’t even have to use it. Well done. And obviously it keeps me from doing 4K of damage to you.

You can’t complain about the stealth stomp (or any other kind of stomp) in a Zerg battle. It’s a free for all, and there are no rules. There are a million ways to die once you’ve been downed and getting stomped should be the least of your worries. In fact, no one should be trying to stomp you at all, unless it’s for pure vanity. When someone goes down, everyone within 1200 should be unloading on the downed player and anyone trying to resurrect. Stomping just makes you oblivious to the action and an obvious target. The stealth stomp in a zerg battle is a smart tactical play and I don’t blame a thief for using it — no matter how much I hate it in 1v1.

The real problem is the downed skills don’t allow you to target the stealthed thief. How many classes have an aoe-no target required downed skill? At least one other person already said it, the balance to stealth stomp needs to come in the downed skills, for all classes. The stomping player will still likely win, but once again you can throw dirt and screws at them for a few seconds. And in keeping with the overall design philosophy, you still have SOME chance to get back up. At the moment, that chance is zero.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

You were downed, you lost. You have to be very lucky, and luck is the only thing in your favor if you get up before a spike.

While resing can be done in a zerg fight, if you were able to do that, you were either winning the fight or the other side was not doing a very good job of killing people.

Either way, stealth was not the problem.

I couldn’t disagree more. You’ve not lost till you’re defeated. And I’ve seen many instances where someone was revived even in a fight that was already going downhill.

I’ll agree that stealth is a lesser problem that invul stomping, it’s still a problem.

It’s not about the downed person deserving to lose. It’s not about the stomping person deserving to win. Unless it’s a 1 on 1 fight, it’s not about any one player deserving anything. WvW is about team play. If none of your team can manage to damage or stomp the downed player without some form of becoming invulnerable/untouchable(and yes, stealth does make you untouchable by quite a few skills), then that team doesn’t deserve the kill. If the downed player’s team manages to revive him and prevent efforts to stomp/defeat him, that team deserves to have their ally alive.

I’ll offer a quick suggestion to alleviate remove a lot of the problem. As some others have said, cause the stomp to remove stealth/invul skills, and maybe even stability/blocks. The latter is very questionable. This leaves the stomper very vulnerable, so to counter this, shorten the channel time of the stomp. No more blind swings in hope of landing a CC on a stealthed stomper, hopelessly flailing away at an invulnerable one, or taking time to boon strip stability hoping someone else hits a CC in time. Stomping becomes a fast action that an aware, and fast responding, ally can prevent.

Epistemic.8013:

The only thing about stealth stomping that needs to change is people not recognizing it when it is happening. That’s not on Anet though.

People recognize it. All the time. Skilled people that is. To azsess and perceive whether the thief is attempting to stealth stomp or not is part of that miraculous thing despised in carebear circles called “strategy”.

mrstealth.6701:

I’ll offer a quick suggestion to alleviate remove a lot of the problem. As some others have said, cause the stomp to remove stealth/invul skills, and maybe even stability/blocks. The latter is very questionable. This leaves the stomper very vulnerable, so to counter this, shorten the channel time of the stomp. No more blind swings in hope of landing a CC on a stealthed stomper, hopelessly flailing away at an invulnerable one, or taking time to boon strip stability hoping someone else hits a CC in time. Stomping becomes a fast action that an aware, and fast responding, ally can prevent.

So how long do you supposed that new stomp should take? 2 seconds? 1 second? 0.5 second?
You don’t take into account that stomp is currently a sacrifice. It’s either a sacrifice of 3 seconds if you are tanky or otherwise survivable enough, or of a anti-CC skill that gets sent to CD.
2 seconds standing around motionless, essentially inactive, without any protection from CC from a third party is deadly, especially if you aren’t strictly in the former category. It downs you. It loses you the fight.
1 second is uninterpretable by GW2 mechanics, not that there are that many interrupts to begin with, and 0.5 is due to network ping issues.

mrstealth.6701:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

You were downed, you lost. You have to be very lucky, and luck is the only thing in your favor if you get up before a spike.

While resing can be done in a zerg fight, if you were able to do that, you were either winning the fight or the other side was not doing a very good job of killing people.

Either way, stealth was not the problem.

I couldn’t disagree more. You’ve not lost till you’re defeated. And I’ve seen many instances where someone was revived even in a fight that was already going downhill.

I’ll agree that stealth is a lesser problem that invul stomping, it’s still a problem.

It’s not about the downed person deserving to lose. It’s not about the stomping person deserving to win. Unless it’s a 1 on 1 fight, it’s not about any one player deserving anything. WvW is about team play. If none of your team can manage to damage or stomp the downed player without some form of becoming invulnerable/untouchable(and yes, stealth does make you untouchable by quite a few skills), then that team doesn’t deserve the kill. If the downed player’s team manages to revive him and prevent efforts to stomp/defeat him, that team deserves to have their ally alive.

I’ll offer a quick suggestion to alleviate remove a lot of the problem. As some others have said, cause the stomp to remove stealth/invul skills, and maybe even stability/blocks. The latter is very questionable. This leaves the stomper very vulnerable, so to counter this, shorten the channel time of the stomp. No more blind swings in hope of landing a CC on a stealthed stomper, hopelessly flailing away at an invulnerable one, or taking time to boon strip stability hoping someone else hits a CC in time. Stomping becomes a fast action that an aware, and fast responding, ally can prevent.

The downed state causes more balance problems than just in the downed skills as well. It gives those who already have an advantage (numbers) an even greater advantage. In a 2v1 you already have 2x the damage, cc, increased field synergy etc. etc. Now on top of that I gotta deal with your pal trying to revive you/kill me when I try to stomp. It’s not impossible but there is already a LOT in favor of the greater numbers… why add more to that?

I would prefer skill to be the determining factor more than it is now where numbers are the main determining factor.

crossoverAtt.9680:

Wow, so much anger in this thread and it seems to be causing too many people to miss the point. Downed isn’t dead. In fact, far from it. Anet has designed the game in multiple ways to make it easy to rally. They really want to give you a second chance to get up and fight. Personally, I think they give too much of chance, but we’ll need a separate thread for the “I shot a downed player 6 times with a ballista and he self-resurrected” discussion. If I get beat in a 1v1, the person who downed me had better have more than 3-4K health left if they are silly enough to come over and try to stomp me, because that’s how much damage I can do in the 3-4 seconds it takes them to run over and finish the stomp. At that point I rally, with more health than they had a few seconds ago, dodge roll backward, and unleash everything. I think it’s kind of lame, but that’s the game’s philosophy. Why do you think the stomp animation is so obvious and so long? Interrupt me! Kill me now!

As mentioned by several people, the issue with the stealth stomp is downed players cannot target the stamper. You probably should lose anyway, but at least you can throw some dirt or some screws at the guy for a few seconds more. However, in a 1v1 situation, that’s a fatal problem, and it only applies to one class. That doesn’t seem to be in balance and it runs contrary to overall theme of having a good chance to get up from a downed state. The stealth stomp is not the same as the invinci stomp or any of the others mentioned, as they all come with very long cool downs. That’s the balance. If somebody wants to keep their obsidian flesh in their pocket for an entire fight, just to use it on the stomp, that’s a tactical decision. I don’t mind the invincible stomp. You get to use it once — you beat me — and didn’t even have to use it. Well done. And obviously it keeps me from doing 4K of damage to you.

You can’t complain about the stealth stomp (or any other kind of stomp) in a Zerg battle. It’s a free for all, and there are no rules. There are a million ways to die once you’ve been downed and getting stomped should be the least of your worries. In fact, no one should be trying to stomp you at all, unless it’s for pure vanity. When someone goes down, everyone within 1200 should be unloading on the downed player and anyone trying to resurrect. Stomping just makes you oblivious to the action and an obvious target. The stealth stomp in a zerg battle is a smart tactical play and I don’t blame a thief for using it — no matter how much I hate it in 1v1.

The real problem is the downed skills don’t allow you to target the stealthed thief. How many classes have an aoe-no target required downed skill? At least one other person already said it, the balance to stealth stomp needs to come in the downed skills, for all classes. The stomping player will still likely win, but once again you can throw dirt and screws at them for a few seconds. And in keeping with the overall design philosophy, you still have SOME chance to get back up. At the moment, that chance is zero.

Holy kitten! Someone on the forum who actually understands game mechanics and balance. This is amazing.

Direwind.8409:

it pretty much counter anything you might do to stop them stomping.

lets see any blind, block or invulnerable, stability or just dps? cant be countered either when downed you can only contribute with a little bit damage and hope you rally.

tom.7468:

Direwind.8409:

it pretty much counter anything you might do to stop them stomping.

lets see any blind, block or invulnerable, stability or just dps? cant be countered either when downed you can only contribute with a little bit damage and hope you rally.

Unless you’re a thief! Then you just port away and their stomp fails, then when they try again you just stealth and their stomp fails again. Such a great class, I really need to take the time to level one up so I can use it in WvW.

Honestly I have no problem with stability stomps. They’re hard to stop, but the person stomping will still take damage and stability isn’t that easy to get. And if you try to be too balls out when stability stomping you’ll get downed yourself.

Invulnerability stomping is problematic though,and in some cases nonsensical (like elixir s.)

Now on top of that I gotta deal with your pal trying to revive you/kill me when I try to stomp. It’s not impossible but there is already a LOT in favor of the greater numbers… why add more to that?

TBH if you have any chance of winning the 2v1 in the first place, it’s just as likely that the other player will get their fool self killed trying to rez. :P

DeadlySynz.3471:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

DeadlySynz.3471:

The difference however with stealth stomp and the others is.. you guessed it, you can’t touch them when their stealthed, and no can your teammates.

This is completely wrong.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

I can and have saved my team when they were about to be stealth stomped because I can and do use skills that allow me to knock the stomper away from stomping because there are plenty of skills that can and do effect the stealthed person.

Hammer #4. Fear Me. Warrior Stomp Skill. Earthshaker. That is just warrior.

Stealth does not grant invulnerability.

Stealth does not grant stability.

You are completely wrong and misinformation like this needs to stop. If I could report for such, I would because this is getting ridiculous with this kind of false information.

I suggest then you grab someone from another server and test it out. Already tried it and it doesn’t work (with warrior). Sorry to break it to you.

Some advice for future posts.. just don’t post.

Dunno what you’re smoking. Unless you’ve got blinded status you, there’s nothing stopping you from hitting a stealth stomping thief with an untargetted skill. Two things that make the thief bail are untargetted CC’s or high untargetted damage. And most attacks in this game are untargetted.

Burnfall.9573:

A Real Man will show himself in Honor in Killing you.

i’m sorry, but – please correct me if i’m mistaken – did you just bring up honor in a video game? your entire post … just … wat?

DeadlySynz.3471:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

DeadlySynz.3471:

The difference however with stealth stomp and the others is.. you guessed it, you can’t touch them when their stealthed, and no can your teammates.

This is completely wrong.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

I can and have saved my team when they were about to be stealth stomped because I can and do use skills that allow me to knock the stomper away from stomping because there are plenty of skills that can and do effect the stealthed person.

Hammer #4. Fear Me. Warrior Stomp Skill. Earthshaker. That is just warrior.

Stealth does not grant invulnerability.

Stealth does not grant stability.

You are completely wrong and misinformation like this needs to stop. If I could report for such, I would because this is getting ridiculous with this kind of false information.

I suggest then you grab someone from another server and test it out. Already tried it and it doesn’t work (with warrior). Sorry to break it to you.

Some advice for future posts.. just don’t post.

I don’t believe you tested it because it does indeed work.

I have done it many, many, many, many times.

So, how about you actually go test it instead of lying about it or take your own advice and don’t post.

You have no credibility after this post.

Darius Glazkov.9750:

Burnfall.9573:

A Real Man will show himself in Honor in Killing you.

i’m sorry, but – please correct me if i’m mistaken – did you just bring up honor in a video game? your entire post … just … wat?

People haven’t been sharing his views on balance, so I surmise he’s trying make himself feel better by walking some selfmade moral highground.

Oh please what are the 1v1 and GvG scenes other than Honorable Combat?

Dual.8953:

Dunno what you’re smoking. Unless you’ve got blinded status you, there’s nothing stopping you from hitting a stealth stomping thief with an untargetted skill. Two things that make the thief bail are untargetted CC’s or high untargetted damage. And most attacks in this game are untargetted.

Dunno what you’re smoking. You can only attack in the direction you’re facing when you were downed. So unless the thief decides to stealth and stand right in front of you, it’s GG, you can’t do anything. Of course that’s assuming you aren’t playing a necro, where none of your downed skills do anything, line of sight or no, unless you have a target. I swear most of the people who try to give out advice on the forums don’t even play this game.

Shoe.5821:

Now on top of that I gotta deal with your pal trying to revive you/kill me when I try to stomp. It’s not impossible but there is already a LOT in favor of the greater numbers… why add more to that?

TBH if you have any chance of winning the 2v1 in the first place, it’s just as likely that the other player will get their fool self killed trying to rez. :P

The person ressing is now vulnerable to you, or you can just go stomp the downed person. The stomp is going to take less time than the revive, and the person will have to break the revive to have a chance at stopping your stomp. If the other player is not trying to revive, then just finish off the downed person with damage while trying to kite the other as much as you can.

Waffler.1257:

Dual.8953:

Dunno what you’re smoking. Unless you’ve got blinded status you, there’s nothing stopping you from hitting a stealth stomping thief with an untargetted skill. Two things that make the thief bail are untargetted CC’s or high untargetted damage. And most attacks in this game are untargetted.

Dunno what you’re smoking. You can only attack in the direction you’re facing when you were downed. So unless the thief decides to stealth and stand right in front of you, it’s GG, you can’t do anything. Of course that’s assuming you aren’t playing a necro, where none of your downed skills do anything, line of sight or no, unless you have a target. I swear most of the people who try to give out advice on the forums don’t even play this game.

I assume Dual.8953 was referring to allies using those skills, not the downed person. But I’m also not sure about the statement that most skill are untargeted. This is true for most melee skills, but ranged skills usually need a target unless they are ground-target skills. You aren’t likely to hit anything trying to use either ranger bow, a war longbow, pistols on any profession, or most scepter skills for any profession.

There are a fair number of skills that can hit the stealthed player, I just don’t think most skills fall under that category unless you are completely ignoring ranged weapons.

Steath stomp
Counters:
Speed Res
Res Utilities/elites
Drop lots of damage on the downed
Drop ground target cc on the downed
Target a channeled CC before thief enters stealth

Stability Stomp:
Boon Strip + CC
Drop lots of damage on the downed (doesn’t work well against high hp+toughness)
Speed Res
Res Utilities/Elites

Invulnerability Stomp
Speed Res
Res Utilities/Elites

Also ranged skills can be manually targeted, it is tricky but it is possible for a ranger to Short Bow #5 on a stealthed theif going for a stomp.

mrstealth.6701:

Waffler.1257:

Dual.8953:

Dunno what you’re smoking. Unless you’ve got blinded status you, there’s nothing stopping you from hitting a stealth stomping thief with an untargetted skill. Two things that make the thief bail are untargetted CC’s or high untargetted damage. And most attacks in this game are untargetted.

Dunno what you’re smoking. You can only attack in the direction you’re facing when you were downed. So unless the thief decides to stealth and stand right in front of you, it’s GG, you can’t do anything. Of course that’s assuming you aren’t playing a necro, where none of your downed skills do anything, line of sight or no, unless you have a target. I swear most of the people who try to give out advice on the forums don’t even play this game.

I assume Dual.8953 was referring to allies using those skills, not the downed person. But I’m also not sure about the statement that most skill are untargeted. This is true for most melee skills, but ranged skills usually need a target unless they are ground-target skills. You aren’t likely to hit anything trying to use either ranger bow, a war longbow, pistols on any profession, or most scepter skills for any profession.

There are a fair number of skills that can hit the stealthed player, I just don’t think most skills fall under that category unless you are completely ignoring ranged weapons.

While you’re not wrong, this might be one of the few advantages of going melee. This game is severely lacking in reward for getting up close to your opponent. Actually having a chance to hit the stealthed could be perceived as one of those advantages.

crossoverAtt.9680:

If I get beat in a 1v1, the person who downed me had better have more than 3-4K health left if they are silly enough to come over and try to stomp me, because that’s how much damage I can do in the 3-4 seconds it takes them to run over and finish the stomp. At that point I rally, with more health than they had a few seconds ago, dodge roll backward, and unleash everything. I think it’s kind of lame, but that’s the game’s philosophy. Why do you think the stomp animation is so obvious and so long? Interrupt me! Kill me now!

As mentioned by several people, the issue with the stealth stomp is downed players cannot target the stamper. You probably should lose anyway, but at least you can throw some dirt or some screws at the guy for a few seconds more. However, in a 1v1 situation, that’s a fatal problem, and it only applies to one class.

Okay, let me explain why getting downed first means you have already lost in 99% of 1v1 fights and therefore stealth stomping is a non issue in that scenario. All damaging downed state abilities are limited to 900 range, so even if there were no way at all to cover a stomp your actual window to down the opposing player (and you have to kill them to get a rally, not down them as you state in the first paragraph of your post) is the time it takes for them to get 901 away from you. At that point they can wait for their heal to come off cooldown, damaging you from range to prevent you from bandaging, either from 900+ if their weapon reaches that far or in the case of the Thief with their 900 range they can move in to 899 as soon as you start the bandage then retreat out of range again until they have enough health to stomp. So your actual window to do that 3-4k damage and down them is the second or two it takes them to get 900 range away, which even if you could do it will result in a downed battle which you will probably lose anyway since you got downed first.

Now, let’s consider a team fight where your allies could help you. Here’s a list of some skills off the top of my head from each profession that can interrupt a stealth stomp, provided those behind the keyboard know their skills and how to use them against an invisible foe.

Warrior:
Earthshaker, Backbreaker, Tremor, Skull Crack, Pommel Bash, Staggering Blow, Stomp, Fear Me
Necromancer:
Reaper’s Mark, Wail of Doom, Spectral Wall (last one is somewhat tricky, but not too difficult)
Guardian:
Banish, Shield of Absorption, Sanctuary, Ring of Warding, Line of Warding (tricky to land like Spectral Wall)
Mesmer:
Illusionary Wave, Chaos Storm, Into the Void
Ranger:
Hilt Bash, Terrifying Howl (technically Point Blank Shot and Concussion Shot can be used too but these are very difficult skill shots so I don’t count them)
Engineer:
Magnetic Inversion, Big Ol’ Bomb, Supply Crate, Slick Shoes, PBR, Detonate Mine, Thump, Air Blast, Throw Shield (also a skill shot but substantially easier than the ranger ones)
Elementalist:
Updraft, Earthquake, Comet, Tornado, Gust (skill shot in the same vein as Throw Shield)
Thief:
Pistol Whip, Tripwire though it has similar problems to LoW and SW but can’t be cast from range like those can (though of course you can just stealth the downed person which is better anyway)

If you’re looking to land any of the short range melee interrupts i listed up there and are finding it difficult because the thief could be behind, in front of or to either side of your downed friend, here is a tip. Autoattack the thin air around your downed friend until you see 1 skill on your toolbar change pictures to the second attack in your auto chain, this indicates you are hitting the immobile stomping thief. Immediately hit your interrupt (Banish, Hilt Bash, etc) and you will stop the stomp.

DrWhom.3105:

Snip

Woah woah woah woah. There’s a bit too much logic and rational thought in that post. I’m gonna need you to rage it up, and maybe make more emotional appeals.