Guild Wars 2

ArtC.1827:

Ahoy! I’m on IoJ and having a great time with these varied matchups. Looking forward to our much-deserved raise in rank and the possibilities available from the new data. It’s sad to see all the complaints, but what else is new? Hopefully, we see the level of competitive play raised across the board and see more wins by smarter strategy versus bigger numbers.
I’m sorry for all the personal attacks people have been making on here and wanted to let you know some of us do understand and appreciate the effort. We look forward to continued attempts at improvement. Thanks for your work and words.

From the server who vastly outnumbered the other two servers (especially during Auzzie time)

Chris.3290:

You can also save your crocodile tears for SBI. They and BP are going to be routinely rofl stomping the bottom-half of servers. When they are regularly matched against IoJ, SF and GoM; no one is going to be having fun.

I just wanted to point out that SBI is currently losing to AR (#15), and that IoJ is only 16k behind, which isn’t an insurmountable difference. Before this, Darkhaven was routinely beating IoJ, and SF was routinely pushing Darkhaven. GoM did ok against Darkhaven last week… so they can’t be too far off of IoJ either.

I’d say that the lower half has more to worry about from BP than SBI, and that any match SBI gets put in from ranks 11 all the way down to at least 20, maybe 21, is going to be a fun fight. If SBI and CD were a close bout, then there’s a few servers down there that could make for a fun fight with CD too.

I dunno what would happen in a fight between BP and CD, but I’d love to find out – and my money would be on BP. 330 people in TS on reset night? I feel like a proud papa! BP learned well and is finally arming itself to reach it’s potential!

Mammoth.1975:

Also, I understand that after coming off such a long stretch of easy games, getting a bad matchup followed by an extremely bad matchup would be a pretty big shock to the system for SoS. Quite a lot of them were probably hoping for something a bit easier after last week, instead they got worse. Nonetheless, the complaining really is over the top, especially with it bleeding into other discussions, like this one.

I have to mostly agree with what Mammoth has been saying. CD and SBI had no chance of taking over SoS’s rating yet they came out every week and put up a fight with only the odd ball trolls here or there… there was no real QQ on our parts.

Edit: Cheers Chris, glad to see people improve!

You want to know how to fix the server matchups???

Remove the scoreboard from WvW entirely. Boom… Fixed… Done.. DAOC (the mother of WvW.. AKA… RVR) never needed a scoreboard. You kept score by who held what keeps at any given time. And it changed daily.

The scoreboard only servers as a way to show off your kitten & upset people that get stomped every week. Removing it can only help the game. This makes playing WvW more about being fun, in the moment, siege warfare. Less about points, stat whoring, and some virtual scoreboard that just kitten es people off every week.

Keep the scoreboard for in house use at ANET if to calculate matchups. But otherwise take it out of the game. People will kitten at first, but end up much happier for it.

Johje Holan.4607:

XII.9401:

morrolan.9608:

Anet just caught a break with the announcement at E3 that TESO won’t be out until Spring 2014. Personally I hope Wildstar and Archeage come out well before then.

Yep I think that is why they are taking their sweet time and ignoring the angry customers.

Why don’t y’all just leave now. Free up a queue slot for someone who actually wants to be there.

Then you could stop coming on the forums and spouting drivel too.

Y’all have no ques on lower tier servers. Population+ ppl stopped WvW after being rolled repeatedly or not finding anyone to roll since the map is all one color.

Why don’t ’Y’all’ continue being a delusional fan boy and go smack a virtual pinata/reddit some more? Not everyone logs on to play smart phone games..

GW2 Fanboys ..the Tea Party of Anet

tsubus.8761:

sticx.5823:

You want to know how to fix the server matchups???

Remove the scoreboard from WvW entirely. Boom… Fixed… Done.. DAOC (the mother of WvW.. AKA… RVR) never needed a scoreboard. You kept score by who held what keeps at any given time. And it changed daily.

The scoreboard only servers as a way to show off your kitten & upset people that get stomped every week. Removing it can only help the game. This makes playing WvW more about being fun, in the moment, siege warfare. Less about points, stat whoring, and some virtual scoreboard that just kitten es people off every week.

Keep the scoreboard for in house use at ANET if to calculate matchups. But otherwise take it out of the game. People will kitten at first, but end up much happier for it.

This actually makes a lot of sense, people would actually play to have fun and not to see some number growing. The way it should’ve been from the beginning.

I’ve proposed this several times before. But I never get a response from players or dev’s. So it never gets traction. I reposted a post I made about a year ago in the suggestion forums. We’ll see if it actually gains traction this time.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/To-fix-WvW-rankings/first#post2200423

Toggles.1783:

Yeah, I was a jerk in that matchup at first, but my tone cleared up after a few weeks and some impressive plays by CD and SBI.

Besides the QQ in that first thread was toxic as no one thought it was a fair matchup after the first week.

If it is a close matchup you want you could always transfer servers to one of the middle of the range servers. Rank 11-17 will likely get you in a good matchup. Just delete all your characters and come on over if you don’t want to pay. Those in the higher ranks are only going to get more and more blowouts as this continues. Until the rankings level out as players stop playing or transfer around.

Stormbluff Isle 141546
Isle of Janthir 121859
Anvil Rock 142188

I think we can all agree the most awesome matchup happening right now in NA is CD, YB, and KN.

That’s the one shining success story of this system.

Why do we not have a score board in game showing our rating as well as the current gain/loss? It might go a long way for morale if you are losing the PPT but actually doing very well with the rating gain for people to see. Why in the world do we have to use a third party site to track this? I swear A-net some of the stuff you guys do is pretty bush league to be perfectly honest.

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

it’s 3rd party, but accurate.

Khayoss.2019:

I just wanted to point out that SBI is currently losing to AR (#15), and that IoJ is only 16k behind, which isn’t an insurmountable difference. Before this, Darkhaven was routinely beating IoJ, and SF was routinely pushing Darkhaven. GoM did ok against Darkhaven last week… so they can’t be too far off of IoJ either.

I’d say that the lower half has more to worry about from BP than SBI, and that any match SBI gets put in from ranks 11 all the way down to at least 20, maybe 21, is going to be a fun fight. If SBI and CD were a close bout, then there’s a few servers down there that could make for a fun fight with CD too.

I dunno what would happen in a fight between BP and CD, but I’d love to find out – and my money would be on BP. 330 people in TS on reset night? I feel like a proud papa! BP learned well and is finally arming itself to reach it’s potential!

They are only losing by about 500 points right now. I should have included AR along with BP and SBI, of course.
SBI is actually not that bad when they come out, but they have had a lot of heartache in WvW with virtually no WvW focused guilds. If some of their PvX guilds (KIWI is pretty good) came out more often; you’d see them ticking a lot higher.

I honestly think that CD would eat BP alive though. You’d never know it from the scores, but CD was tough to beat in T4. Unless BP has significant off-hours coverage, I would put 2 to 1 odds on CD.

I know, my point is why the hell isn’t this posted in game or at least on the official forums? If the point of the new system is to more or less stop “using” tiers and start thinking of rating then why not show it in game? If we are facing off against a much more heavily populated server and definitely losing on the PPT but keeping it close our rating gain might actually be much higher then said opponent. Well it should kitten well be somewhere for all to see….“Hey guys I know it’s been a tough matchup this week vs the enemy hordes but we actually are doing very well….check out our rating gain!”.

Blackjack.2083:

I know, my point is why the hell isn’t this posted in game or at least on the official forums? If the point of the new system is to more or less stop “using” tiers and start thinking of rating then why not show it in game? If we are facing off against a much more heavily populated server and definitely losing on the PPT but keeping it close our rating gain might actually be much higher then said opponent. Well it should kitten well be somewhere for all to see….“Hey guys I know it’s been a tough matchup this week vs the enemy hordes but we actually are doing very well….check out our rating gain!”.

The question is is the leaderboard good enough or are you actually wanting it in game in game.

I don’t see why people are shocked… Like this was going to do anything to better Wv3. Anyway, after seeing what Anet has done to fix the game(Absolutely Nothing); I don’t plan them to do anything serious anytime soon… Every aspect(Wv3/PvE/sPvP) are terrible! Why even bother discussing it anymore?

Blackjack.2083:

I know, my point is why the hell isn’t this posted in game or at least on the official forums? If the point of the new system is to more or less stop “using” tiers and start thinking of rating then why not show it in game? If we are facing off against a much more heavily populated server and definitely losing on the PPT but keeping it close our rating gain might actually be much higher then said opponent. Well it should kitten well be somewhere for all to see….“Hey guys I know it’s been a tough matchup this week vs the enemy hordes but we actually are doing very well….check out our rating gain!”.

I know our attitude on SoS is that we don’t appreciate the rating gain, because that just means our chances of another curbstomp have increased, and will increase til our rating is high enough that every match just painful.
The only thing worse than that is to face lower ranked servers (like BP is going through) and being forced to curbstomp them to prevent your rating from going down too much and finding every week is too easy.

Snowreap.5174:

smart math stuff

Have you done your number crunching for next week probabilities?

Blackjack.2083:

Why do we not have a score board in game showing our rating as well as the current gain/loss? It might go a long way for morale if you are losing the PPT but actually doing very well with the rating gain for people to see. Why in the world do we have to use a third party site to track this? I swear A-net some of the stuff you guys do is pretty bush league to be perfectly honest.

Blackjack for PRESIDENT! Hear, Hear, brother!

The current in-game scoreboard gives the underdog one impression: they are getting their rear-end handed to them. It’s a major morale killer, and the Low Morale Monster is a serious Wv3 population slayer! (It kills more easily than the largest zerg! lol)

Anet, if you want to change how Wv3 is matched up, you have to look at making some scoreboard modifications like Blackjack said – IN GAME! I want to be able to hit my “B” button and not only see the PPT, but see how my world is doing rating wise.

Please make this happen. Thank you!

Moonlight Wish – GoM

sticx.5823:

You want to know how to fix the server matchups???

Remove the scoreboard from WvW entirely. Boom… Fixed… Done.. DAOC (the mother of WvW.. AKA… RVR) never needed a scoreboard. You kept score by who held what keeps at any given time. And it changed daily.

The scoreboard only servers as a way to show off your kitten & upset people that get stomped every week. Removing it can only help the game. This makes playing WvW more about being fun, in the moment, siege warfare. Less about points, stat whoring, and some virtual scoreboard that just kitten es people off every week.

Keep the scoreboard for in house use at ANET if to calculate matchups. But otherwise take it out of the game. People will kitten at first, but end up much happier for it.

Arenanet made the error decision to go with scoreboards and matchups rather than a perpetual battle with the same enemies. I can see how this would appear more appealing because it mixes the game up a bit, but the perpetual aspect of DAoC was what made it a lot of fun because the potential was there to hold a single keep forever if you were dedicated and powerful enough (even if that never happened).

airstu.2579:

Snowreap.5174:

smart math stuff

Have you done your number crunching for next week probabilities?

next week’s NA probabilities, based on current (Wednesday late afternoon) scores, attached.

-ken

What good is this rating system if a server can’t even make it to their own garrison, let alone take it over?

What good is this rating system, when the final product of the rating system when it finally stabilizes, leaves us with the exact match ups we had 3 weeks ago?

What some people fail to understand is that there will be virtually no difference in the match ups we had 3 weeks ago. Your going to see Tier 1 servers together, Tier 2 servers together, Tier 3 servers together.. etc.. This is because the WvW population dictates it on those servers. This rating system is simply just adding a more scenic route to the final destination, whereas the old system was more direct.

I don’t know what good showing a ratings scoreboard will do, when I’d assume most people play WvW for the fun battles and tactical challenges. I just cant imagine people playing WvW to see how their ratings are. If anything, they should just wipe out all the scoreboards completely so players don’t even know where they stand. All it does is serve as something to complain about.

Snowreap.5174:

airstu.2579:

Snowreap.5174:

smart math stuff

Have you done your number crunching for next week probabilities?

next week’s NA probabilities, based on current (Wednesday late afternoon) scores, attached.

-ken

Thank you

Yes anet, this new match up system is just SO MUCH FUN to play … getting farmed by a SoR zerg that’s 3 times the size of any other zerg… and the spawn camping, that’s just so adorable and pleasant.

Chris.3290:

I think we can all agree the most awesome matchup happening right now in NA is CD, YB, and KN.

That’s the one shining success story of this system.

Not sure you can put this down to the new system.
Using the month prior Mags Kain and Yaks had close fights with around a 50k difference between 1-3. This in my opinion is a very close matchup.

Under the new system we lost Mags (strongest) and gained CD who have put in so much effort these last 2 weeks. Kain have bled some more numbers bringing them back to the pack. This is what you get when numbers balance more evenly but I believe the matchup will be decided on out of NA primetime performance where kain is the strongest and CD 2nd (burning the midnight oil).

If you look at the bottom of na 21,22 23 24 this new system is doing nothing for them. Something similar in EU.

As for the rest of you e.g SoS gaining points. Had they not been stuck in T4 (close) they would have been t3 and gained these points anyway. Unbalanced matches are not fun to play and fun is why we play it is not another work away from work

MajorCookie.6729:

Yes anet, this new match up system is just SO MUCH FUN to play … getting farmed by a SoR zerg that’s 3 times the size of any other zerg… and the spawn camping, that’s just so adorable and pleasant.

Hard to believe they’re spawn camping.. coming from a T1 server, you’d think they’d have more class than that. Alas, they could be just really bored lol, which isn’t their fault, that honor goes to Anet.

People deserve even matchups. It’s hardly fun to log in with the way it is now. As a disadvantaged server you’ll spend hours trying to get WvW dailies done, and be dead by zergs continuously.

So I know people have suggested that the numbers need time to play out, so the system can settle into some sort of equilibrium. Unfortunately, what I’m seeing, looking at the top three matchups right now is that servers that SoR and Fa are actually losing points because they are dominating, but apparently not hard enough. Meanwhile, severely outmanned servers like SoS are gaining points because they are hanging in there just enough. Unfortunately, this seems to mean that until SoR ensures that SoS can’t even make it out of their spawn alive, the two will continue to converge, points-wise, making this sort of matchup more likely in the future, not less.

Similarly, FA is falling in ranking, despite dominating their matchup, again making such a matchup more likely in the future. What I’m concerned with here is that blowouts do not seem to be a temporary thing until the system settles down, the system seems to be converging on increasingly uneven matchups.

Regarding the actual wvw gameplay, can’t comment there…been working on map completion this week…also rediscovered my interest in tower defense games.

Snowreap.5174:

airstu.2579:

Snowreap.5174:

smart math stuff

Have you done your number crunching for next week probabilities?

next week’s NA probabilities, based on current (Wednesday late afternoon) scores, attached.

-ken

You are awesome!

Except that it seems most likely matchup for SoS next week is against TC and DB

I’m tired of anet’s data gathering already. Hey, think maybe you could screw FC again next week so it’s a waste to log into WvW by the second hour of the first day again? Please?

It’s not SoR’s fault the match up is uneven. We have 3 options

1. carry on fighting and playing for ppt against mismatched servers
2. Stop playing the game
3. Move servers (put more money into Anet’s coffers) – being a cynic I wonder if Anet’s economist was behind the changes to get more guilds to transfer servers.

I don’t see why the game should force us to stop playing or move servers. At this juncture I must admit I do not know what will happen, because if we get another match up like this we wont have much of a guild left to wvw with anyway. And yes it is that bad (half the guild are playing league of legends, some commanders have not even logged into the game this week).

there’s a third option, don’t allow one server to have more then twice the numbers of the other two oppositions combined on one map at a time, would spread the population out across the maps, and cause guilds to spread to other servers to avoid queue’s.

Snorcha.7586:

there’s a third option, don’t allow one server to have more then twice the numbers of the other two oppositions combined on one map at a time, would spread the population out across the maps, and cause guilds to spread to other servers to avoid queue’s.

that’s only fair to servers who are losing the blowout. for servers that have queues at all times, it means making it virtually impossible for people to play wvw at certain times (because the opponents don’t have anyone on). It also allows the possibility of an “all NPC” defense strategy.

The problem as I see it is that ANet is treating the differences between servers as purely quantitative, when really it’s qualitative. As far as I can tell, T1 used to be about massive zerg vs zerg fights and ensuring round the clock coverage. Some people really like this style, others don’t. Plenty of people wanted the option to have a mix of zerg and small-group tactics, which is what T2 is like, but also with decent coverage. T3 is a lot of that but with less coverage still. People in each tier were mostly working for the medium term goal of winning and holding keeps, but weren’t usually really trying to move up the ranks as a server (except maybe the tier 1 servers).

This is why I compared it to separate leagues in sports. People playing in rec league teams do not want to go up against major league teams…at least not on a regular basis, and vice versa. The problem with that analogy is that in sports, everyone fields the same number of people. In WvW we also have to deal with a huge disparity in population, which makes these matchups more uneven and unfun.

I’m a proponent of a matchmaking system different from the original. I’ve also said that servers need to be put into matches within a range around their own level.

It does appear that the variance is too large right now. I’m also not sure what Anet means when they say the ratings need to fix themselves. The ratings are pretty much a good measure of a servers level. If we bring them closer together and then lower the variance won’t that just have the same effect the we have now – further apart ratings and higher variance?

In NA, I think without SoR and maybe BG at the top; an without FC and ET at the bottom the matchmaking would be a lot easier. These servers are just too big of outliers to make using the ratings a good matchmaking system.

What was my point? Oh yeah, new system is better than old but the variance needs to be tuned down sooner rather than later.

Offski.4897:

It’s not SoR’s fault the match up is uneven. We have 3 options

1. carry on fighting and playing for ppt against mismatched servers
2. Stop playing the game
3. Move servers (put more money into Anet’s coffers) – being a cynic I wonder if Anet’s economist was behind the changes to get more guilds to transfer servers.

I don’t see why the game should force us to stop playing or move servers. At this juncture I must admit I do not know what will happen, because if we get another match up like this we wont have much of a guild left to wvw with anyway. And yes it is that bad (half the guild are playing league of legends, some commanders have not even logged into the game this week).

Option 4 put all your stuff in the bank delete all your characters then transfer servers.

Johje Holan.4607:

I’m a proponent of a matchmaking system different from the original. I’ve also said that servers need to be put into matches within a range around their own level.

It does appear that the variance is too large right now. I’m also not sure what Anet means when they say the ratings need to fix themselves. The ratings are pretty much a good measure of a servers level. If we bring them closer together and then lower the variance won’t that just have the same effect the we have now – further apart ratings and higher variance?

the ratings were correct before only within their tier. to put it another way, the rating was a good measure of one server’s level when compared to another server in the same tier.

but the ratings were not a good measure to compare servers in different tiers, because those matchups didn’t happen often enough to allow the rating system to take them into account. (and also because the old system only allowed rating points to flow ‘up’ across a tier boundary but never down again, which led to some of the higher ranked servers having more rating than they truly deserved).

the goal of the new matchup system is not to bring ratings closer together — it’s to make the rating gaps between the old tiers more accurate. if “more accurate” turns out to also be “closer together”, that’s fine. but if that means that the highest ranked servers need to gain rating and the lowest ranked servers need to lose rating in order for them to be a true measure of strength, so be it.

once the ratings become accurate for more than just comparing yourself to the servers ranked right next to you, we will have less need for randomized matches quite so far apart as we’re getting now.

surprisingly, if you actually look at the math in detail you might conclude that our current matchup variance isn’t high enough! in Glicko-2, a player’s “true” rating is assumed (with 95% confidence) to lie somewhere plus or minus up to 2 deviations away from their calculated rating. the new matchup algorithm doesn’t go that far — it only makes matches plus or minus up to about 1.25 deviations away from calculated rating.

-ken

System is working currently. Under the old system IoJ and Anvil Rock would not have a chance to face SBI and prove that those servers are almost as strong as SBI, Even though IOJ was rated 400 points below SBI.

In Euro, the rank 7 server is proving its just as good as the rank 2 server, something that would not have happened in the old system. The rank 6 server is proving its rating is inflated, and needs to drop. The rank 9 and 10 servers are showing that they are as strong as the rank 3 euro server. etc. The old ratings were really not even close to the actual power of a server.

I don’t mind losing a week every once in a while if they need to increase the range or RNG values to do a shakeup. If they were to track match stagnancy between T2-T7 and adjust according to that value, then that would be a decent system.

When servers suffer a major population shift, a more random system will help end the suffering a lot sooner.

The system as it stands is just eliminating the middle tiers. It’s pushing all the T4+ servers above 1700 in rating and all the T5 and lower servers beneath 1300.

Theoretically, a change in systems should be bringing the range further in; but is creating a monumental gap between T5 and T4.

Imagine Ehmry Bay at the top of T5 in their former situation, trying to move up? It would have become mathematically impossible. Even with the random system, 500 points is outside the range….

I would have been more happy with the “reset” they had planned a while ago.

Chris.3290:

The system as it stands is just eliminating the middle tiers. It’s pushing all the T4+ servers above 1700 in rating and all the T5 and lower servers beneath 1300.

How so? For NA servers within that range, 3 are moving further from 1500, 2 are moving closer.

if the new system is pushing T4+ up and T5- down, it’s doing so because there is actually a big gap in server strength between T4 and T5, and therefore future matches that cross that gap should become less likely.

this is actually a sign of success of the new system. if servers are a good match for each other, their ratings should move closer together. servers that are a bad match for each other should have their ratings move apart.

there’s actually nothing in the new system pushing ratings closer together. the ratings should be moving towards their “correct” values, but whether “correct” means closer together or farther apart we won’t know until things settle down.

-ken

Mammoth.1975:

Chris.3290:

The system as it stands is just eliminating the middle tiers. It’s pushing all the T4+ servers above 1700 in rating and all the T5 and lower servers beneath 1300.

How so? For NA servers within that range, 3 are moving further from 1500, 2 are moving closer.

2 of those three are moving that way because SBI was over 1500. Now that SBI has lost 150 points, there is no way that those 2 can gain that many points again.

Already the servers in that matchup and those beneath it, will needs extremely high rolls and the higher tiered servers will need very low rolls to be matched up.

SBI is going to finish. around 1470 and EB is going to finish around 1605. EB was highly underrated and SBI was overrated so EB will only continue to go up about another 100, and SBI is still about 100 points too high.

This situation can still change at this point. If SBI, EB, and CD were to get matched up; you’d see EB and CD come a bit down and SBI move up a bit. However, Snowreap’s numbers points to that being highly unlikely.

NS is the only other server moving up, but how much more can they gain? They were upsold this week so they’ll probably break even or get low this week; which will either make them lose points or only gain slightly.

The point I’m getting at, is this is becoming a runaway situation. All the former T4 servers (EB, CD, and SoS) got upmatched at least once and (as no surprise to anyone in former T4 or T5) those servers were a lot better than they were on paper. This caused them all to have a large jump in ratings.

In two weeks, you will most likely not see any server with a rating higher than 1300 or lower than 1700; and not by much if you do.

If they lower the point range from 250 to less than 200… well 12-24 might as well be in EU as far as 1-12 are concerned.

I will add the one thing that can upset this (and I actually hope it doesn’t for the sake of their long-suffering members) is a complete implosion by Kaineng.

In the mean time, I really don’t see what the big deal is if a server who was a powerhouse of one tier has to take a beating at the hands of a server from a higher tier. EBay would gladly face FA again, or any other T2 server for multiple weeks. We were on the giving end of far too many blowouts under the old system and it never resulted in anything positive for anyone. It’s our turn to take some lumps, and in the process move to a more suitable bracket of opponents… the way I see it, the system is working perfectly.

The ratings are starting to reflect reality too… there is a definite gap somewhere around the 12th server and those below it. It’s a fairly sizable gap and it’s going to take some serious growth by any server below that mark to contend with those above it. The server that is most likely going to be stuck in no-mans-land is Borliss Pass. They are too heavy to be a fair match for a lot of the servers from 13 down, but they likely can’t go toe to toe with the ones from 12 up. It’ll be interesting to see if, in time, they grow to move up or shrink to move down. Luckily, with random match making, if someone does grow enough to bridge the gap it won’t take months for them to cross over into better matchups – as it would have in the old system.

Well I sure hope that gapping doesn’t happen because then you will see me in fact start to QQ

A server should be able to face sometimes servers above it and sometimes below it. Anet will have to make another adjustment if the gapping occurs.

I don’t give a rat’s pattoote about ratings. Any gap like that would bad, very bad.

but you can’t ignore the ratings. let’s suppose there were only 6 NA servers, and they had the following ratings:

Server A 2300
Server B 2275
Server C 2250
Server D 2200
Server E 1050
Server F 1000

there’s a huge ratings gap between D and E, and it means that the top 4 servers are really in a different class than the bottom 2.

the problem here is that GW2 requires 3 servers in each match. no matter what, E and F are always going to be outmatched by somebody — the only question is, which of the top 4 servers is going to be the one to kick their teeth in on any particular week?

that’s a made-up example, but the same problem can occur with the 24 servers in NA (or the 27 in EU). if a gap appears, it will be because the servers above the gap are a lot better than the ones below the gap. adjusting the numbers isn’t going to change that fact in any way.

if it turns out that the gap falls in such a way that the number of servers above and below the gap is evenly divisible by 3, then we might see something similar to tier stagnation again and the actual size of that gap might drift away from reality. but if not, we’re pretty much guaranteed that every week a server from above will be matched with a server from below and there will be a blowout. but the side effect of this blowout will be that we will continue to have an accurate measure of how big that gap actually is.

this was the big failing of the old system — there were gaps between the tiers but due to tier stagnation nobody really knew how big those gaps were. under the new system we can now measure the size of the gap (but taking the measurement sometimes means having blowouts).

-ken

That’s exactly my point, Snowreap. It is happening and the servers ARE divided by 3.

There’s also the long-term repercussions of what this will do to WvW engagement and enjoyment.
As we saw this week, BP is stomping on teams so much lower than them that they have to have a blowout win to not lose points.

I know EB is having fun this week fighting FA, and I understand that. We actually enjoyed TC and FA last week despite the disadvantage.
However, how long can you enjoy such odds? The 10-12 place servers (I’m already counting EB as 12th) have largely been spared thanks to the 9,10,11 match in it’s 2nd week; but that won’t continue. Eventually they’ll draw FA, DB, or TC.
SoS already shown it can draw #1 easily enough so Tier 2 has to constantly face DB’s current situation and T3 can face ours.

As the servers in the top half are pulled up and the servers equalize in scores, we’ll all be close enough in rating to draw SoR or BG on any given week.

Unless they close the RNG factor so that T2-T4 always end up facing each other as the 2100 club are stuck with each other for a long time to come.

Sorry, I don’t see any scenario where keeping a RNG component after this week will result in anything positive.

it may very well be a kitten ed-if-we-do-and-kitten ed-if-we-dont situation.

you can’t give a server the opportunity to prove that it deserves to move up if you don’t also give it the opportunity to prove that it deserves to stay exactly where it is.

-ken

Chuck the ratings system entirely. Adding parts to a broken machine is unlikely to improve it’s functionality.

Make matchups based on comparative number of players in WvW, line up the activity levels by time zone as much as possible, have an employee spend several hours per week evaluating data and HANDMAKING matchups.

Relying on a numerical system to define human behavior isn’t likely to have much success (in this instance). Math doesn’t account for morale. The current math doesn’t even account for actual participation or population fluctuations due to transfers.

The previous matchups could have been slightly adjusted to relieve stagnation by simply moving a server up a tier if it wins 3 weeks in a row (or twice in a row by more than the opponent’s combined totals). All this crazy math to keep from saying “we’re going to balance the matchups as best we can with population data and considering past scores”. Instead we get “we made up some crazy number scheme based on some other ratings system for sports and we are going to allow it to run rampant over your fun until it either works or doesn’t, so deal with it”. Thanks.

By the numbers alone, a matchup where each server played 8 hours per day exactly, then left entirely while the next took over, trading fully capped maps, would be perfectly balanced. Even though in this scenario there would never actually be any player vs. player competition. Having an employee who could look at population fluctuations by time and manually make matches would prevent this (and lots more bad) scenarios from playing out in the live game.

DevonCarver.5370:

The concept of tiers has little meaning at this point and you should try to stop thinking of matchups in those terms. Servers are matched up by proximity of rating, not proximity of “tier”. If the tiers have ratings that are within the range of the random adjustment, they can end up fighting each other. This is going to result in blowouts, no doubt about it. However, we are not going to make changes to this after just 2 weeks of the system. There are things we can do. We will almost certainly end up adjusting the total added to each server rating to group the matchups a little more closely. First however, we need to let the ratings adjust by having more varied matchups like these. If you look at EU, which is using the exact same system, you can see matchups with numerous surprising results. The same will likely be true by the end of the NA matchup.

TL;DR: We are going to wait at least a couple more weeks before changing any of the math behind the new system, but it is very likely we’ll decrease the size of the variation at some point.

Goto http://mos.millenium.org/na look at the scores, Blackgate dominating Jade Quarry by 100k points, and Dragonbrand by 150k points. I’ve never been disgusted by the scores like this before, and its only Wednesday. Theres only 3 matchups of WvW that are going good right now out of 8 total. 5 matchups of 8 are a TOTAL blowout BAD MATCHMAKING.

Seriously you guys need to get some expert advice in matchmaking because not only does WvW matchmaking worse than before the tPvP matchmaking is just as bad as well.

People at anet need expert advice on matchmaking obviously they are doing it wrong over at anet headquarters. Because 5 matchups that are currently with 1 server winning by 100-200k lead is WAY WAY off of whakittens suppose to be and that’s 63% of being WAY WAY out of what your suppose to be and that’s just SAD.

Dear Anet,

You owe gold to all the members of all the servers who are getting continually farmed in wvw this week. We expect reimbursement for your lack of forethought.

Sincerely,
Everyone.

Another thing, servers that are winning by huge margin are going down in ranks due to bad matchups. SoR is destroying TC and SoS over 100k points just like BG destroying JQ and DB by over 100k points but SoR is LOWERING ranking points and DB is gaining ranking points. Because SoR is facing worse ranked worlds they LOSE rank faster. Everyone already knows SoR is rank 1 server right now but its being forced to RANK 2 due to the TERRIBLE matchups.

And you got SoS gaining rank points and its going to be a rank it shouldn’t be because its getting points getting its kitten wooped.

Is SoR suppose to be like GoM and woop ET and FC by 200k points to earn points? Your current system encourages servers that are higher ranking to woop servers they are against by 200k points to gain rank. That’s kittened up.

Borlis Pass and Fort Aspenwood are also losing rank even though they winning by 100k points…. According to this new system you gotta woop servers by 200k points because you go against worlds up to 8 ranks worse than you and when you do that you gotta win BIG you have to CRUSH worlds make life miserable for them. MAKE THEM WANT TO QUIT WvW because they getting owned so bad.

You wonder why ET and FC don’t do so good in WvW they been pitted against a team that wooped there kitten for months and with new system they still getting pitted against teams that woop there kitten I could understand why they don’t field as many numbers because if you get your kitten wooped every single day and week and month, why the heck would you play WvW instead of doing something constructive like CoF P1 runs or PvP for /rank or doing the living story.

uberkingkong.8041:

Goto http://mos.millenium.org/na look at the scores, Blackgate dominating Jade Quarry by 100k points, and Dragonbrand by 150k points. I’ve never been disgusted by the scores like this before, and its only Wednesday. Theres only 3 matchups of WvW that are going good right now out of 8 total. 5 matchups of 8 are a TOTAL blowout BAD MATCHMAKING.

Seriously you guys need to get some expert advice in matchmaking because not only does WvW matchmaking worse than before the tPvP matchmaking is just as bad as well.

BG is the #2 ranked NA server, playing #3 ranked JQ. who do you expect Arenanet to match BG up against if not JQ? do you think the score would be closer if BG fought BP or GoM?

and the 3 “good” matchups are all ones that never would have been possible under the old matchup system. so the new system is an improvement, right?

-ken