Guild Wars 2

Hello Guild Wars 2 community!
This is probably my first time posting on the forums, not really sure if I have before and if so it has been a while since I have.

I’m a long time member of Guild Wars 2 and I enjoy the game very much.
It’s only recently that I’ve started playing World versus World, started about five months ago, and Guild Wars 2 has started to leave a bad taste in my mouth ever since.

I completed my story months ago and looking for something different I began learning how to effectively participate in the World versus World groups and zergs. And playing with my sister it was only then I really learned how flawed and frustrating the server pairing system is.

Just about every time I log in, Isles of Janthir and another server is over-run buy a dominating server. We can’t take anything back without being whiped by another servers zerg. Our server commanders would try to get as big of a zerg as they could to make a stand, but most of the time it just leads to everyone being killed. The sad part about this is that it causes people to either stop playing World versus World altogether or causes them to switch servers. Lessening the people even more that we have to even be effective in our stand against the other servers.

I don’t know what can be done about this, but myself and a lot of other people are very tired of this in Isle of Janthir. I have nothing to do on the game until the expansion, and I don’t want to log in every day to just be killed and over-powered because I want to be an active member. This part of the game really drives me away. And I’m sure it does a lot of other people, maybe even on different servers as well.

I’ve contacted Guild Wars 2 Staff about this, but I was just told to post it here. So that’s what I’m going to do.

Play EotM instead while waiting for HOT.

Stay with a zerg and change overflow if bored.

ever play spvp and get steam rolled in the first minute, then everyone kinda lingers at the spawn till game is over? wvw is like that except the game lasts a week. even if anet forced even teams, the same thing is just as likely to happen.

so the real questions
do you rly want to rebuild? are you willing to put in the work?

if yes, what do you lack?
is there a low amount of ts usage? are ppl willing to learn? do you need more commanders? is there any communication between time zones? is there a siege donation organizer?

the basic principle is that you have to get out there and show the server there are ppl still willing to fight. even if you dont have the numbers to face a larger blob head on theres strategies to stay in the game. it wont happen over night, wvw doesnt rest, just cause the prime time ktrain fails doesnt mean the whole week is lost.

PvP is not the same as WvW at all, no comparison really.
And frankly with Isle of Janthir, EToM is the same deal. Dominating server, can do little to fight back. And yes, we NEED more people who want to participate, we NEED more commanders but our server is making them leave, and the people who WANT to fight back and try to stay active for the commanders that DO try, there is little to no reward with a dominant server taking over the WHOLE map.

I was actually playing TODAY. Sorrow’s Furnace pinned us at our starting area. We couldn’t leave without dying. How much fun is that? It isn’t. It sucks.

This has been the biggest issue of WvW for a long time. The whole WvW transfer system is essentially a large-scale hotjoin where people just bandwagon to win.

I know that WvW is not designed to be a balanced game-mode but the current entirely lopsided matchups are killing a lot interests in the game mode. This game mode has great potential but devs have abandoned it for so long that it is in a very bad state

We really need immediate attention from devs on this as the expansion is a perfect chance to restructure the WvW system, not just the maps, but also the reward, the server population balance etc.

Maybe you were not wvwing at the time, but poor nsp and ioj were crushed for months by the t2 reject of the week (there were 4 t2ish servers) often like this weeks score – but remember MONTHS.. Many bolted for greener pastures with no relief in sight. By the time t2 sorted out, it was too late. NSP seemed to have weathered that storm better than IOJ, but both were battered and bruised…..

Merrick.4983:

I was actually playing TODAY. Sorrow’s Furnace pinned us at our starting area. We couldn’t leave without dying. How much fun is that? It isn’t. It sucks.

In the matchup of the first pic in OP? If so it shows exactly why the other server dominate. When 2 weak servers spend their time spawncamping each other it doesnt even matter if there is a dominating server in the matchup. 3 server battles was done so that players themselves could try to balance the fights. If they dont and instead make it even more unbalanced… tough kitten. Players will be kittens.

The only thing Anet can do to help is if they remove the 1-2 bottom tiers and spread these servers out on weaker servers in the tiers above. which is highly unlikely to happen as they have never given any regard to WvW server balance in 3 years.

Liston.9708:

Maybe you were not wvwing at the time, but poor nsp and ioj were crushed for months by the t2 reject of the week (there were 4 t2ish servers) often like this weeks score – but remember MONTHS.. Many bolted for greener pastures with no relief in sight. By the time t2 sorted out, it was too late. NSP seemed to have weathered that storm better than IOJ, but both were battered and bruised…..

This. It was really really bad and Anet never showed any evidence that they cared. The result? Massive numbers of people left IoJ for kitten, or bandwagon servers, making the already terrible population situation even worse.

three years too late with this complaint.

let’s just say, ‘give up hope’.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Liston.9708:

Maybe you were not wvwing at the time, but poor nsp and ioj were crushed for months by the t2 reject of the week (there were 4 t2ish servers) often like this weeks score – but remember MONTHS.. Many bolted for greener pastures with no relief in sight. By the time t2 sorted out, it was too late. NSP seemed to have weathered that storm better than IOJ, but both were battered and bruised…..

This. It was really really bad and Anet never showed any evidence that they cared. The result? Massive numbers of people left IoJ for kitten, or bandwagon servers, making the already terrible population situation even worse.

It was a player created issue though. Anet is not, and should not, step in and ‘move’ server positions. Adjust how quickly ratings change though, definitely. But at that time when it occurred, those servers were in a form of purgatory. They had too many people for the lower tiers, and no where near enough to fight against a t2 server.

Also, if certain people have their way, history could repeat within a few months, some of the very people involved then…

As for OP, welcome to the situation that nearly every server has faced at some point, some multiple times. Just look at T8 matchup atm. Yours might not be in as bad of a situation and will have a chance to ‘lick your wounds’ and rebuild identity. It can actually be more enjoyable afterwards than it was prior…

First I would like to start off by saying I have played WvW since launch. I command, back line, but mostly roam and outnumbered fight. I was previously on Kaineng (fought both FC and SF) so I know some of the problems ur having.
So here’s what you do:

1. Get better at fighting outnumbered. I know this doesn’t sound like advice, but WvW isn’t meant to be fair. Sometimes servers will have the dominating numbers, but learning to 2v5, 5v10, and 10v20+ helps ALOT. I’m not saying you will win every fight since if you are outnumbered by a group of equal skill, there isn’t much you can do, but most WvW groups are very terrible pugs.

2. Get out of the Eternal Battle Grounds. I know how both of those servers think. All the scrubs go to EB for some reason, and those servers cap as much as possible and hunt for loot bags. (Not a bad thing, I do the same thing whether outmanned or commanding cuz fights r fun ). Usually the borderlands at low tiers will have AT MAX, a group of 10 people, unless FC or SF is holding off one another in EB, so they go to that borderland to pull the zerg, blah blah blah (a lot of zerg stuff, try to avoid Zergs since u r on a server that can’t really zerg much anymore from what I have heard.
So stay in the borderlands.

3. CAP STUFF!!!!!!!!!!! This is the biggest problem a lot of WvW players have. They wait for someone to come and lead them. Learn to solo a camp, solo a tower, eventually solo a keep (SMC is too difficult since there are so many scrubs who flood it once it gets swords, and you never have the time to finish off the lord). Most of the time, your server may not own anything, but the dominant servers aren’t defending anything. Take 2-3 people from your guild and cap back stuff. You will also get good fights once you’ve capped a keep on a map cuz that usually draws people.

Only scrubs give up before they’ve even tried.
Only scrubs can’t lead.
Only scrubs let themselves be spawn camped instead of changing maps or using the second or third exit out of spawn (yea…there is more than 1 way out…)

This has been the same old issue since launch. It’ll never change. Literally the only choices are:

• Tough it out and attempt to find some fun with others on your server. It may get better as Glicko continues to adjust in its glacial pace toward the sea or as population shifts around.

• Quit. (Temporarily or permanently)

• Change servers.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Liston.9708:

Maybe you were not wvwing at the time, but poor nsp and ioj were crushed for months by the t2 reject of the week (there were 4 t2ish servers) often like this weeks score – but remember MONTHS.. Many bolted for greener pastures with no relief in sight. By the time t2 sorted out, it was too late. NSP seemed to have weathered that storm better than IOJ, but both were battered and bruised…..

This. It was really really bad and Anet never showed any evidence that they cared. The result? Massive numbers of people left IoJ for kitten, or bandwagon servers, making the already terrible population situation even worse.

It was a player created issue though. Anet is not, and should not, step in and ‘move’ server positions.

You have a tragedy of the commons problem so you need a higher authority. That would be Anet.

And there are a ton of things they can try, from the draconian no-transfers-ever, to rewarding transfers to smaller servers, to discouraging bandwagoning with high gem costs, to revising the PPT system, to changing map caps, to changing the ranking system, etc.

But they don’t even try. So yes, it is their fault.

You know whats really awesome is when you get all organized and everyone is playing coordinated and you wipe numbers you shouldn’t be wiping, just to see another 15 people play as “medic” rezzing all the dead (not downed) players. You end up having to drive thru a large area just to try to keep that from happening or trying to make a point of getting kills in the same area.

That doesn’t help either lol

You have a tragedy of the commons problem so you need a higher authority. That would be Anet.

And there are a ton of things they can try, from the draconian no-transfers-ever, to rewarding transfers to smaller servers, to discouraging bandwagoning with high gem costs, to revising the PPT system, to changing map caps, to changing the ranking system, etc.

But they don’t even try. So yes, it is their fault.

Totally agree. There is no excuse for not trying something, anything to alleviate the issues in WvW. Either they are getting too rich over the transfer money to stop the bleeding or they simply don’t care. IMHO, IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

My advice, try SPvP. It’s fun, it’s casual, but most importantly, it’s as fair as is possible.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Liston.9708:

Maybe you were not wvwing at the time, but poor nsp and ioj were crushed for months by the t2 reject of the week (there were 4 t2ish servers) often like this weeks score – but remember MONTHS.. Many bolted for greener pastures with no relief in sight. By the time t2 sorted out, it was too late. NSP seemed to have weathered that storm better than IOJ, but both were battered and bruised…..

This. It was really really bad and Anet never showed any evidence that they cared. The result? Massive numbers of people left IoJ for kitten, or bandwagon servers, making the already terrible population situation even worse.

It was a player created issue though. Anet is not, and should not, step in and ‘move’ server positions.

You have a tragedy of the commons problem so you need a higher authority. That would be Anet.

And there are a ton of things they can try, from the draconian no-transfers-ever, to rewarding transfers to smaller servers, to discouraging bandwagoning with high gem costs, to revising the PPT system, to changing map caps, to changing the ranking system, etc.

But they don’t even try. So yes, it is their fault.

Anet has tried to curve server population before and it only made things worst. Changing the costs to transfer servers only disrupted and made the balance between servers worst. They’ve tested out a PPK system on top of the PPT system. They are actively changing map caps, you might not notice it the lower tiers but yes they do change it. None of these changes were permanent, more like testing to see how the community responds, I’m sure when they find a REAL solution, they’ll implement it.

The things they haven’t done, is directly influence/decide server match-ups (which is nice knowing that your servers position is entirely player influenced) or the ranking system.

We’ve yet to see what the new WvW BL has to offer, maybe new mechanics that will help the underdog servers, who knows. But Anet hasn’t completely given up on WvW, though I don’t think WvW is really high on their priority list.

I think eventually things come around no matter what, but if the community pulls together, without a bunch refusing to change a little bit(eg. builds, tactics, communication like TS, defending), or no concerted effort to recruit new and/or experienced players it’ll be a tough road. First step is get everyone who doesn’t want to lose on TS. The thing a dying server needs most is TS to be able to coordinate everything that’s going on. w/o it, you’re even more at a disadvantage. And then there’s the comedere you can build. Which can be priceless. There’s really no excuse if your computer isn’t broken. Headsets are cheap. I wish you guys luck, hopefully there’s a bunch of stubborn ppl to stick it out.

Oscuro hit the nail in the head with his post. Was waiting for someone to mention the other exits and WPs. Those are all great ideas. Use a good roaming profession though, so you can get away if you get zerged when taking things back. Thief is perfect for it. What I used when my server was dead last NA. Takes camps and towers and gets away every time. Oscuro’s last paragraph should be a T-shirt. I’d add “Don’t be a scrub” at the end though

Merrick.4983:

Hello Guild Wars 2 community!
Just about every time I log in, Isles of Janthir and another server is over-run buy a dominating server.

I play WvW on IoJ every night. It is true that we had a large exodus of wvw focused guilds recently but we still have a few that have a decent presence each night. I’m not sure what time zone you play in but if you play in NA I would be happy to point you to a few. The remainder of the active IoJ wvw players are very dedicated and experienced. We don’t usually have the coverage to field more then one group of 15+ at a time but the group we do field is more then competitive against groups of our size or even bigger. We even have been organizing some server wide wvw events. Although no one seems to go on the IoJ forums and with the merger of servers outside of WvW there is little way to advertise them. I will PM you Merrick.

Yeah this part sucks, the transfer system really promotes bandwaggoning instead of server dedication. Maybe if they attached guilds to servers, the idea of rebuilding guilds would scare off the massive guild transfers. (though it would also kill the PvE mega server guilds. So I dont know.)

JDjitsu.7895:

I think eventually things come around no matter what, but if the community pulls together, without a bunch refusing to change a little bit(eg. builds, tactics, communication like TS, defending), or no concerted effort to recruit new and/or experienced players it’ll be a tough road. First step is get everyone who doesn’t want to lose on TS. The thing a dying server needs most is TS to be able to coordinate everything that’s going on. w/o it, you’re even more at a disadvantage. And then there’s the comedere you can build. Which can be priceless. There’s really no excuse if your computer isn’t broken. Headsets are cheap. I wish you guys luck, hopefully there’s a bunch of stubborn ppl to stick it out.

Yeah AR getting out of rank 24 proves anything can happen if the right dedication can be given to a server.

Don’t worry, hopefully you’ll be down in T8 on reset and you can roll DR and ET like everyone else, lol.

Guys i dont get it, first everyone qqs about other match ups and now they qq about being overpowered. Are you people never happy?
If your server gets overpowered, try to work together with the other server as part of the strategy to take the strongest one down.

Human nature is to always attack the weaker. EZPZ….

Anet has removed the whole strategical part of wvw -it’s no use to try to defend with anything other than a 50 man blob. So what would you do? All server transfers cost the same anyway and karma train it is. If one server is dead, move to the next to karma train.

I hope things work out for IoJ, they were great back in the day.

Loosmaster.8263:

Human nature is to always attack the weaker. EZPZ….

PPT nature is to attack the weakest. Ive noticed this happening in many matchups. Its becoming that if you have a severely weak server in your matchup, its all about who can hold that servers stuff the longest. So that server gets pummeled.

Its also not unusual that its the strongest server that can hold it, so that server just gets mad PPT from it, outPPTing the server that can give it a run for its money without having to really fight for the PPT. Making these crazy lopsided wins and higher undeserved glicko.

It’s actually a well-established fact at this time that IoJ is in fact the farm team for Fort Aspenwood. About every 15-18 months they buy off the best players on that server and leave it to crumble down until they rebuild again, then repeat.

All you can do in any bad situation is rally around your active commanders and give them all the support you can.

snarfrificus.4230:

Guys i dont get it, first everyone qqs about other match ups and now they qq about being overpowered. Are you people never happy?
If your server gets overpowered, try to work together with the other server as part of the strategy to take the strongest one down.

No, you don’t get it. As an example, in Tier 2 FA has bought off SoS as well as farmed other servers for their players. As a result Tier 2 is in limbo. With FA at the top, YB in the middle and yup, you guessed it, SoS at the bottom of the barrel. It’s been like this for 6 months.

Hello,

Wriddler here from FC.
First, i would like to say i agree that the matchups can be quite silly and unbalanced.. but its life :/ I can think of many times when we’ve been trounced too. Lots is shifting in wvw.
Secondly, FC is looking for more guilds. So there is always the option of transferring. If you or your guild is interested contact me and we can talk/i can hook you up with some other guild leaders.
Lastly, I know that being repeatedly beaten on is not fun… But, there is potential to find a new home and try to have a new-ish start. Take care, im sure we will be seeing you guys for awhile :/

Loosmaster.8263:

Human nature is to always attack the weaker. EZPZ….

But it’s Anet’s ranking system that really does it. The best way to get PPT in an uneven matchup (and pretty much every matchup is grossly uneven) is to take it from the weak server. And that completely ruins the point of having 1 vs 1 vs 1.

What’s a possible solution? Determine rankings using winner-take-all or (something close to it): winning server gets 3 points, losing servers both get 0. This encourages servers to hit the leader.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Loosmaster.8263:

Human nature is to always attack the weaker. EZPZ….

But it’s Anet’s ranking system that really does it. The best way to get PPT in an uneven matchup (and pretty much every matchup is grossly uneven) is to take it from the weak server. And that completely ruins the point of having 1 vs 1 vs 1.

What’s a possible solution? Determine rankings using winner-take-all or (something close to it): winning server gets 3 points, losing servers both get 0. This encourages servers to hit the leader.

PPT is just a score. It’s still Human Nature to take that action. You still have a choice.

Loosmaster.8263:

Don’t worry, hopefully you’ll be down in T8 on reset and you can roll DR and ET like everyone else, lol.

We have at least another couple of weeks in T7 before we get bumped to the bottom, since this is only our second week there. It appears that we’re not going to come in dead last this week (been a long time since I’ve seen us out of third place!) so that might hold us in T7 a little longer. :/

How many ioj got tried to rebuilt and got farmed again? 3, 4 times? I don’t know, I don’t care anymore. I came to ioj during the first implossion and left after 2 years directly after the wolf-disband, which was the ember of the last implossion. It was a devastating time, many ioj’er had complained directly here in the forum.

I don’t think that FA had much luck with the last buy-out, maybe the rest of the few ocx joined them, other spread out to other servers (me incl. ). Most of them have joined sbi as far I know. IoJ had a nice server athmosphere, which I really miss, but I played at first in ocx, sea then eu tz, and ioj was already dead before. The OT face now the situation which I ‘ve seen over months, but the na players didn’t believe that. IoJ was carried by the oceanic players for a very long time and these players are gone now.

Maybe it’s better for ioj, when anet does nothing, because if they do something, the rest of the people will leave this server, like they did it on the seasons annoncing.

RIP my beloved Isle of Janthir.

Dora

Loosmaster.8263:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Loosmaster.8263:

Human nature is to always attack the weaker. EZPZ….

But it’s Anet’s ranking system that really does it. The best way to get PPT in an uneven matchup (and pretty much every matchup is grossly uneven) is to take it from the weak server. And that completely ruins the point of having 1 vs 1 vs 1.

What’s a possible solution? Determine rankings using winner-take-all or (something close to it): winning server gets 3 points, losing servers both get 0. This encourages servers to hit the leader.

PPT is just a score. It’s still Human Nature to take that action. You still have a choice.

You’re both right. And combine Human Nature with the Ranking System and you’ve got both working against you.

We can’t change Human Nature but Anet can change the Ranking System. And they can change the scoring system to incentivize attacking the stronger server too.

But they haven’t. And they won’t. Too bad.

Merrick.4983:

PvP is not the same as WvW at all, no comparison really.
And frankly with Isle of Janthir, EToM is the same deal. Dominating server, can do little to fight back. And yes, we NEED more people who want to participate, we NEED more commanders but our server is making them leave, and the people who WANT to fight back and try to stay active for the commanders that DO try, there is little to no reward with a dominant server taking over the WHOLE map.

I was actually playing TODAY. Sorrow’s Furnace pinned us at our starting area. We couldn’t leave without dying. How much fun is that? It isn’t. It sucks.

There are 4 maps and each map has 3 ways to exit spawn. You’re telling me SF had all of those exits covered? I find that hard to believe.

INC wall of text

While I do agree they should have more test events to try some things out, its just that the tiers are so out of balance that one thing that would help the lower tiers would hurt the higher tiers. IoJ isn’t the only server that this has happened to, in a way it sucks but lots of people left my server to go to IoJ, called our server a dead server, trash talked us on troll forums and now we are ranked higher then they are. So in a way what goes around comes around. Players caused the issue.

Lots of us in the lower tiers are happy so something like an alliance, which has been suggested by players, would actually probably make lots of the players that still are in lower tiers quit. I’d be gone if I couldn’t play with the same players that I’ve been playing with for over 2+ years. I also feel the lower tiers are more relaxed. We still get have zergs/blobs but its mainly around prime time. If alliances made zergs on maps 24/7 well I’d quit all together since if I wanted that I’d transfer to a higher tier. Not saying higher tiers are 24/7 zerg fights but my server made it to T3-T4 over its time and I’ve had more fun when we are in lower tiers.

As for map cap size, well there is a red thread talking about the lag issues. The dev in there was very helpful and he actually was doing tests with the map cap and lowered them. If you read it, a lot of players were mad at this, most of them players were in the higher tiers, claiming they could no longer get onto maps and maybe had a total of 2 big guild groups on a map. No one is really sure if the map cap was raised back up or not but some players were not happy.

The one test event anet included us in was the no white swords and ppk test. OMG the QQ’s from players even before this event happened was just sad. Players stated they were quitting, it will just become a zerg k-train, and small group roaming would be dead.. Well it wasn’t like that at all as I found more smaller groups roaming trying to take things and to be honest it showed which servers actually had good scouts and which ones lacked them. Most lacked them so they QQ’ed about no white swords.

The only fix would be to get more players into WvW and keep them there. Maybe the new map will do this but we will have to wait and see. Lots are already claiming it will just be EoTM map yet all we have seen is a few videos of it. So again players are complaining that it will become a EoTM map and if it does it’s because all those complaining about it will turn it into one.

I feel WvW is the way it is now because there are still people like me that have been playing WvW for 2+ years and any major change to it would ruin the fun. I’m still having fun after playing one game mode for so long. I still play everyday and have fun everyday yet at times it can be frustrating. That is all just part of WvW to me though.

You should be playing WvW to have fun and no other reason. Thing is everyone has a different definition of what fun is so when they are no longer having fun, they transfer off servers to try and find that fun again. I think its hard for anet to fix this problem cause I see it as a player made problem.

Most say they transfer off servers to find better fights but I see them transfer to a server that usually always has a long winning streak or is always winning. Not always the case but lets use the tiers as an example and what I think would be the servers that would receive more transfers.

T2 FA. T3 SBI. T4 HoD. T5 Ebay. T6 GoM. T7 FC. T8 BP.

I guess over time we will see if my server prediction of which server gets more transfers actually becomes true but in the end the players are the cause of the population problem.

TL;DR:

Players caused the issue and a fix for one tier would hurt another tier. Only fix would be to get more people in WvW and keep them there.

briggah.7910:

snip

RoF has been rank 19-22 for the past 2,5 years with only one short exception when they were 15-16, that was 1,5 years ago and then you were silver. Your server is currently T7.
The situation on NA is different than on EU, btw. IoJ was rank 9 a year ago, now they’re 19 maybe 21 next week – similar stuff happened to quite a few servers over there.

Sorry, I had to say it because you always claim to be in another tier and you always tell how your server makes it frequently to silver.

Edit: Ok, then maybe I confused you , sorry if that is the case. =)

Your prediction at end of the above post is flawed a bit because it isn’t taking into account certain actions by certain people, yet the end result will likely still be the same so you’ll still be right haha. Some of the actions not seen are what some people are doing regardless if the community wants it or not, including but not limited to ‘buying’ and/or ‘encouraging’ people to transfer in.

If I could sell one person off somewhere I would (but I suppose that could then violate federal law >.> and I’d really need to sell a few for biggest effect )… but I think I would never find a buyer even if I offer to pay to take ‘em, and even if I could, it will be far far cheaper to just pay to move myself elsewhere instead. Likely more fun too, and I might just do it myself, because I definitely agree, more fun in the lower tiers, a lot less drama and arguing over ppt and who is or isn’t in wvw and who should have a say in a community they have always been a part of. I could sit back and let the community handle itself knowing I won’t really be affecting it and would get to enjoy the benefits of far less toxicity.

Even taking a look in T1 reinforces what I’ve always thought of that tier. Sure there’s fun to be had, but meh, not the fun I want the entire time I’m playing, that’s what an alt is for. One thing it’s not really possible to understand, is how people have fun in fairly constant situations where all you can do is press 1. I get the fun of big battles occasionally but geeze, I think one could get more exciting results rolling some dice and feel you affect the outcome about as much.

My personal concern with the new map is the event that blasts open the gates. That is likely to make ktraining easier for the map with the higher #‘s. It may have some things built into it that discourages ’ktraining’ though, will have to see it. Additionally, the changes coming also could encourage trying to beat the clock more, because similar to the zerk justification, the best way to take something will definitely become cap it before it can upgrade (yes, yes, it’s already that way but now the upgrading can be held off with a small dedicated group, after it won’t be nearly as effective), but I suppose we’ll have to see how it all plays out, because those changes are indeed coming no matter what. If I have sounded like ‘the sky is falling wvw is going to die’ before then I’ll apologize, but there is unfortunately potential for ‘wvw as many know it will die’ which is similar but not the same thing. WvW itself isn’t going to die regardless of what Anet does or doesn’t do. WvW as many know it though, that’s a different situation, players and Anet can definitely ‘kill’ that.

briggah.7910

Players caused the issue and a fix for one tier would hurt another tier. Only fix would be to get more people in WvW and keep them there.

So true that players have caused the issue and something to help t1-3 would hurt t5-8, and likely vice versa.

It is to the point that personally, I’m leaning toward alliances despite my original dislike of the idea. However I still know what affect that would have on the communities that already exist, how it could damage them and cause many to yet again rebuild anew. It royally sucks and I wouldn’t wish that on others, so it still leaves me torn on the idea. My change in personal opinion on it is due in large part to the severe disruption to my own community from outside of it, and the ongoing drama caused by said action, and where it will take it. It is to the point I’m very tempted to walk away from it, which itself is sad. Of course doing so would mean I get to see enemies I haven’t faced in a long time, and some I never did, so there’s that.

edit: Also, looking it up, except for someone that was cheating (and has since been banned), kinda had a bit of fun against yours. Not as fun as ET was, but that fun didn’t last as long either. It was like we broke our fun new toy and felt just as sad. I do hope they can rebuild. Without seeing personally, I think IoJ is in a better position though.

Also, isn’t on RoF >.> briggah’s server indeed made it to silver NA and bounced around lol.

It is time to move server….

Many guilds are shifting servers here and there, some guilds shift servers for god knows why even though their server is doing well. Some guilds shift servers because they are looking for a more balanced matchup or hoping to balance a matchup. Some guilds shift servers because they want to be in a stable dominating server so they don’t have to shift again. Some guilds shift servers because they believe in the lies spouted by the servers’ recruiters.

However, I believe we can all agree that the servers issues are all because of anet. Why are some weaker servers full and lowest tier server costing 1.8k gems? All these naturally led to guild shifting out to avoid stuck in that dung hole.

Jana.6831:

briggah.7910:

snip

RoF has been rank 19-22 for the past 2,5 years with only one short exception when they were 15-16, that was 1,5 years ago and then you were silver. Your server is currently T7.
The situation on NA is different than on EU, btw. IoJ was rank 9 a year ago, now they’re 19 maybe 21 next week – similar stuff happened to quite a few servers over there.

Sorry, I had to say it because you always claim to be in another tier and you always tell how your server makes it frequently to silver.

Oh I agree, and not really sure how EU TBH. No need to be sorry either. Most of what I say is just my opinion but I’ve been around a long time. Over the past year we lost a lot of guilds. Most were some roaming guilds/wvw guilds and even pugs as well. To this day people are still leaving. My follower list shows that.

It sucks when servers die but most of those servers that do end up dying don’t seem to make it back up unless they get mass transfers. That is the hard part in trying to rebuild. Maguuma has done it and it took a lot of those guys recruiting on several forums. They should be proof that if you want something and work for it, it could happen. Is it easy to do? No way, just don’t give up and expect anet to fix a player caused problem.

I’m also on GoM. I usually don’t say what server I’m from since most people hate us LOL but I’ve played a lot and faced many servers over my time. For me this is the server I belong too. Through thick and thin we always seem to recover a lot faster than most of the other servers.

briggah.7910:

snip

Yeah sorry, I confused you with someone else. I really am sorry ;)

SkyShroud.2865:

However, I believe we can all agree that the servers issues are all because of anet. Why are some weaker servers full and lowest tier server costing 1.8k gems? All these naturally led to guild shifting out to avoid stuck in that dung hole.

Yes, total agree with this point. Since meagserver has been around the status of servers should be based on WvW population. Since really WvW is the only thing that keeps server communities now and it does make getting transfers to servers harder if they have a high pve population. I think DH is FULL status but been hearing they have been losing WvW guilds making it tough for even new players to join that server. Been seeing lots of new faces on my server since the HoT announcement but unfortunately, DH isn’t getting any new players either with full status.

When I was saying its not anets fault for stale match ups or population imbalance I was more talking about when guilds decided to leave servers. IoJ for example, lost a lot of its players and I just don’t see that as being anets fault. I guess in a way it sort of is since they just allow transfers but if they didn’t allow transfers and players were not having fun on their current server, well they would lose customers all together.

Jana.6831:

briggah.7910:

snip

Yeah sorry, I confused you with someone else. I really am sorry

No problem LOL but besides the tier you mention, my server has jumped tiers a lot in the past. We currently bounce bronze/silver so even with what you said it gave me more stuff to chat about

briggah.7910:

Jana.6831:

briggah.7910:

snip

Yeah sorry, I confused you with someone else. I really am sorry

No problem LOL but besides the tier you mention, my server has jumped tiers a lot in the past. We currently bounce bronze/silver so even with what you said it gave me more stuff to chat about

I remember GoM from when I have been on IoJ – but I didn’t really keep track of your standings it’s just every time I look at the NA standings (I’m EU now) I’m like “Holy moly, which guilds transfered to server x and left server y?” it’s way worse than in EU and it would annoy me a lot.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

It is to the point that personally, I’m leaning toward alliances despite my original dislike of the idea. However I still know what affect that would have on the communities that already exist, how it could damage them and cause many to yet again rebuild anew.

When I hear of alliances all that comes to my mind is EoTM and TBH I can’t stand it. Not only does it have to do with it just being a k-train but also the fact that its like every server troll all rolled up in one match up. LOL not saying our server doesn’t have trolls but man the way people talk in chats there and backseat command etc etc just gets to me.

briggah.7910:

When I was saying its not anets fault for stale match ups or population imbalance I was more talking about when guilds decided to leave servers. IoJ for example, lost a lot of its players and I just don’t see that as being anets fault. I guess in a way it sort of is since they just allow transfers but if they didn’t allow transfers and players were not having fun on their current server, well they would lose customers all together.

nope, it is really anets fault. this is basically domino effect. when the higher tier server get into some problem, the lower tier server will be affected by it. servers become full in the mid tiers, instead of moving up, they are moving down because of lack of players and guilds leaving exactly because of the lack of players. when these guilds left, they will either go up the tier or go down the tier. if they go down the tier, the server will be boosted and come the steamrolling. if they go up the very first tier, it wouldnt affect much but if they go to the same tier, the other svrs in that tier will be boosted and if the svrs in that tier are boosted, any server that come up to that tier from the lower tier might be steamrolled.

in other words, there will be servers gonna be steamrolled because of current situation. there are two full mid tier server and both are losing glicko, still, they are capable of putting up fights at certain timezone. t3/4 tiers only have 5 qualified t3/t4 svrs and still missing one and by missing that one all the bottom tiers will suffer with the unbalance matchup and the unbalance will never fix itself unless some server fill up that blank. so, guilds will continue to move here and there because t3/4 needed those guilds to balance their matchup.

so the lower tiers will either keep losing guilds or get steamrolled by the up and raising servers boosted by the transfer from the upper tier due to the situation in the higher tiers.

briggah.7910:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

It is to the point that personally, I’m leaning toward alliances despite my original dislike of the idea. However I still know what affect that would have on the communities that already exist, how it could damage them and cause many to yet again rebuild anew.

When I hear of alliances all that comes to my mind is EoTM and TBH I can’t stand it. Not only does it have to do with it just being a k-train but also the fact that its like every server troll all rolled up in one match up. LOL not saying our server doesn’t have trolls but man the way people talk in chats there and backseat command etc etc just gets to me.

oh if it was just like eotm, then I’d still have to be against it. We already have eotm, wouldn’t need WvW to be the same. EotM is too temporary to remotely be a model.

As for whether or not it’s Anet’s fault or not:
It was stacking that caused the ‘full servers’ to, well, be full in the first place. The players moving that causes the instability in the system. It doesn’t have to be this way, but in NA it is, because of the players. Doesn’t mean Anet shouldn’t take steps to change things, but in many cases the fixes would be as bad as not doing anything at all… Anet did of course make the system, but Anet made the system in NA and EU yet NA is where the situation is far more unbalanced, is it not? Players are as much, if not moreso, responsible through actions and inactions as Anet is. Players themselves could change how it is done, but again at this point that would disrupt a lot of communities that don’t want to be effectively ‘taken over’ yet again the players themselves can already do that, and some do.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

As for whether or not it’s Anet’s fault or not:
It was stacking that caused the ‘full servers’ to, well, be full in the first place. The players moving that causes the instability in the system. It doesn’t have to be this way, but in NA it is, because of the players. Doesn’t mean Anet shouldn’t take steps to change things, but in many cases the fixes would be as bad as not doing anything at all… Anet did of course make the system, but Anet made the system in NA and EU yet NA is where the situation is far more unbalanced, is it not? Players are as much, if not moreso, responsible through actions and inactions as Anet is. Players themselves could change how it is done, but again at this point that would disrupt a lot of communities that don’t want to be effectively ‘taken over’ yet again the players themselves can already do that, and some do.

Nope, stacking don’t necessary cause server to be full. Take a look at DB and DH, the guilds left and yet the servers remain to be full, don’t you ever wonder why? Why do the T1 servers capable of being stacked and yet remain populated? Something must be broken here. Is T1 given the special privilege by the staffs? EU works fine mainly due to the fact they are mostly single timezone but in NA, we have players from all over the world and also a much larger players base. The system has proven to be incapable of coping with these and therefore broken.

The guilds in those server then have to make the decision to safeguard their guilds, you can’t blame them for wanting to leave for the good of their guilds. Guilds cannot be blamed for their decisions when their decisions are made in respond to something that is completely out of their control. So when these guilds start to move, the domino effects come into picture. However, ultimately, the system is the primary source of the problem and if anet had look into the complains made by players many months ago, the current situation could have been avoided.

It could have been prevented, but it would have taken actions to control what players do. I’m sorry but players fill servers, players cause queues (except you know, when anet changes map population sizes, then yeah they can be blamed too but there were still reasons for the changes though).

Players could spread out, players didn’t have to stack servers before, but they did. And while it’s possible Anet lowered the max server population, they also I think raised it a number of times allowing even more people in what was full prior. Of course players leaving may have accounted for it at least part of the time.

DB has dropped from full numerous times, then went back to full. All I’ve wondered is why people keep wanting to move there, since it keeps going full. Reason it was full when guilds left? Because it was overfull really. You can blame anet for reducing the server max IF they did. But you can’t really blame Anet because players chose to return to the game (well you can but not the way you are saying, but that’s a different complaint anyways) and may have once again counted against the servers total when they may not have been counted prior due to inactivity. I’m not sure when/how/if they are no longer counted against it. If they remain counting against it, then again we can say anet is at fault, although really don’t think server caps should have been increased the last times (again if they indeed did increase them), on that point we can agree Anet is at fault. But Anet does not control what guilds choose to do. Anet did not for instance make TIME choose to leave DB, and consolidate those that couldn’t move to DB all on HoD. Chose to leave because DB was full and Anet controls the server caps, I can give you that.

And if HoD suddenly is listed as full with all those moving to it, you’ll have the same situation, but that too would be entirely Anets fault i guess? Kind of surprised that it hasn’t been full yet, considering how many pve/pvx guilds moved to HoD and never left because megaserver negated any reason to move for PvE. Of course that gets into a different discussion with resolutions that would cause other issues.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

It could have been prevented, but it would have taken actions to control what players do. I’m sorry but players fill servers, players cause queues (except you know, when anet changes map population sizes, then yeah they can be blamed too but there were still reasons for the changes though).

Players could spread out, players didn’t have to stack servers before, but they did. And while it’s possible Anet lowered the max server population, they also I think raised it a number of times allowing even more people in what was full prior. Of course players leaving may have accounted for it at least part of the time.

DB has dropped from full numerous times, then went back to full. All I’ve wondered is why people keep wanting to move there, since it keeps going full. Reason it was full when guilds left? Because it was overfull really. You can blame anet for reducing the server max IF they did. But you can’t really blame Anet because players chose to return to the game (well you can but not the way you are saying, but that’s a different complaint anyways) and may have once again counted against the servers total when they may not have been counted prior due to inactivity. I’m not sure when/how/if they are no longer counted against it. If they remain counting against it, then again we can say anet is at fault, although really don’t think server caps should have been increased the last times (again if they indeed did increase them), on that point we can agree Anet is at fault. But Anet does not control what guilds choose to do. Anet did not for instance make TIME choose to leave DB, and consolidate those that couldn’t move to DB all on HoD. Chose to leave because DB was full and Anet controls the server caps, I can give you that.

And if HoD suddenly is listed as full with all those moving to it, you’ll have the same situation, but that too would be entirely Anets fault i guess? Kind of surprised that it hasn’t been full yet, considering how many pve/pvx guilds moved to HoD and never left because megaserver negated any reason to move for PvE. Of course that gets into a different discussion with resolutions that would cause other issues.

DB is a prime example of everything wrong with the PPT and Glicko ranking system and population/coverage issues. It had the largest SEA time population, T1-sized SEA time population, and almost nothing any other time. That carried DB into tiers higher than the rest of their server could be competitive in (even the last iteration of DB in T2, their non-SEA time PPT had to be carried by 2v1). The same thing essentially occurred with SoS and to some extent JQ and DH. I’d say the same about IoJ but IoJ had an off-hours exodus early on in the life of this game. No one should be surprised that these servers ended up full status and are non-competitive in NA WvW.

Reminder: This game needs a set of OCX/SEA servers separated from NA (so yes, it is Anet’s fault). Then NA might have a WvW experience closer to EU and OCX/SEA players would finally be able to enjoy GW2 without 500ms ping times. We wouldn’t get into this situation of servers ending up in tiers higher than their NA Prime can be competitive in.

Chris.3290:

It’s actually a well-established fact at this time that IoJ is in fact the farm team for Fort Aspenwood. About every 15-18 months they buy off the best players on that server and leave it to crumble down until they rebuild again, then repeat.

All you can do in any bad situation is rally around your active commanders and give them all the support you can.

That’s actually really f_cked up.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Chris.3290:

It’s actually a well-established fact at this time that IoJ is in fact the farm team for Fort Aspenwood. About every 15-18 months they buy off the best players on that server and leave it to crumble down until they rebuild again, then repeat.

All you can do in any bad situation is rally around your active commanders and give them all the support you can.

That’s actually really f_cked up.

And grossly misrepresented. AVTR and all those guilds that left IoJ for FA in the first exodus did so of their own accord because IoJ’s NA basically collapsed out of T1, that server was dropping, and the players in the first exodus wanted to remain in a higher tier. CORE and some others followed later for Season 1 and no one on FA recruited or paid for them. The third time it is true that FA approached the IoJ community. You can’t blame players who originally came from IoJ in the first exodus for looking to their old server, knowing that the communities have similarities. The offer was refused. An NA guild ultimately came on their own (they started on FA, went to IoJ, then went back to FA) while two OCX guilds were given like 50% of the transfer cost – the same as was being given to other interested OCX guilds from other servers. As another poster above said, Wolf suddenly and unexpectedly disbanded and that spurred others to leave. They didn’t all come to FA.