Too many play to win instead of playing as winners regardless of end results. If your server is so full of people who will only play if they win it might be good news for you if they go elsewhere…
When rewards are involved all bets and honor are off. We may not change your mind but there is no longer any guilt in manipulating the outcome taking a break from WvW for the next few weeks.
No wonder the world circle the drain…
WvW tournaments are like having a sPvP tournament where instead of 5 man teams, one side gets 5 and the other gets 4, or 3, or 2, or 1.
Would you play in that tournament? Didn’t think so.
Except they are not the same since it is accepted that it is unequal from the get go. It’s why they have STRUCTURED pvp where all is controlled and WvW where nothing is. BTW, YES, I would still try to win even alone.
Too many play to win instead of playing as winners regardless of end results. If your server is so full of people who will only play if they win it might be good news for you if they go elsewhere…
When rewards are involved all bets and honor are off. We may not change your mind but there is no longer any guilt in manipulating the outcome taking a break from WvW for the next few weeks.
No wonder the world circle the drain…
WvW tournaments are like having a sPvP tournament where instead of 5 man teams, one side gets 5 and the other gets 4, or 3, or 2, or 1.
Would you play in that tournament? Didn’t think so.
Except they are not the same since it is accepted that it is unequal from the get go. It’s why they have STRUCTURED pvp where all is controlled and WvW where nothing is. BTW, YES, I would still try to win even alone.
But it wouldn’t be FUN, and not having FUN means you are not likely to continue doing it, which is why WvW is dying.
A-Net does share responsibility. It is true. It’s the part where ppl won’t even try if there is no external carrot that I find sad.
There’s a difference between “no external carrot” and being punished. In the context of defending in WvW, one is like “great job keeping watch and deterring the enemy, here’s nothing for your efforts!” while the other is closer to “great job keeping watch and deterring the enemy, we’re now taking 5 gold from each of you!”
Also keep in mind a lot of the players who participate in these tournaments don’t find WvW fun in the first place.
I rarely felt “punished” by defending and it can be very rewarding in terms of fun (the only currency that should matter). As for the “poor” people playing something they don’t like, are they mentally challenged or masochist? I hate EoTM and would never forced myself into it no matter if there are achievements and better loot.
If you want a better example of WvW “punishment” try trebbing a T3 alone for 20 minutes (making you instrumental in the objective capture) but getting ZERO reward, not even bronze level, because no NPC were killed. That sux big time. But even THAT is a choice I make that can be “fun” if I like playing an important part that benefit the server. My reward is the sentiment to have done what needed to be done.
Too many play to win instead of playing as winners regardless of end results. If your server is so full of people who will only play if they win it might be good news for you if they go elsewhere…
When rewards are involved all bets and honor are off. We may not change your mind but there is no longer any guilt in manipulating the outcome taking a break from WvW for the next few weeks.
No wonder the world circle the drain…
WvW tournaments are like having a sPvP tournament where instead of 5 man teams, one side gets 5 and the other gets 4, or 3, or 2, or 1.
Would you play in that tournament? Didn’t think so.
Except they are not the same since it is accepted that it is unequal from the get go. It’s why they have STRUCTURED pvp where all is controlled and WvW where nothing is. BTW, YES, I would still try to win even alone.
But it wouldn’t be FUN, and not having FUN means you are not likely to continue doing it, which is why WvW is dying.
I rarely felt “punished” by defending and it can be very rewarding in terms of fun (the only currency that should matter). As for the “poor” people playing something they don’t like, are they mentally challenged or masochist? I hate EoTM and would never forced myself into it no matter if there are achievements and better loot.
If you want a better example of WvW “punishment” try trebbing a T3 alone for 20 minutes (making you instrumental in the objective capture) but getting ZERO reward, not even bronze level, because no NPC were killed. That sux big time. But even THAT is a choice I make that can be “fun” if I like playing an important part that benefit the server. My reward is the sentiment to have done what needed to be done.
PvErs force themselves through this crap so they get nice looking skins. Again the ends (weapon skins) justify the means (choring through something boring and, in Dragonbrand’s case last season, hopeless)
Your egocentricity is getting really tiresome though. You have your own personal beliefs and ideals, and, rather than think about those of others, you choose to impose your own beliefs as the only way and judge others for not following them.
Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
Too many play to win instead of playing as winners regardless of end results. If your server is so full of people who will only play if they win it might be good news for you if they go elsewhere…
When rewards are involved all bets and honor are off. We may not change your mind but there is no longer any guilt in manipulating the outcome taking a break from WvW for the next few weeks.
No wonder the world circle the drain…
WvW tournaments are like having a sPvP tournament where instead of 5 man teams, one side gets 5 and the other gets 4, or 3, or 2, or 1.
Would you play in that tournament? Didn’t think so.
Except they are not the same since it is accepted that it is unequal from the get go. It’s why they have STRUCTURED pvp where all is controlled and WvW where nothing is. BTW, YES, I would still try to win even alone.
I rarely felt “punished” by defending and it can be very rewarding in terms of fun (the only currency that should matter). As for the “poor” people playing something they don’t like, are they mentally challenged or masochist? I hate EoTM and would never forced myself into it no matter if there are achievements and better loot.
If you want a better example of WvW “punishment” try trebbing a T3 alone for 20 minutes (making you instrumental in the objective capture) but getting ZERO reward, not even bronze level, because no NPC were killed. That sux big time. But even THAT is a choice I make that can be “fun” if I like playing an important part that benefit the server. My reward is the sentiment to have done what needed to be done.
PvErs force themselves through this crap so they get nice looking skins. Again the ends (weapon skins) justify the means (choring through something boring and, in Dragonbrand’s case last season, hopeless)
Your egocentricity is getting really tiresome though. You have your own personal beliefs and ideals, and, rather than think about those of others, you choose to impose your own beliefs as the only way and judge others for not following them.
Nice try but this has nothing to do with egocentricity which I could accuse you of too btw. It’s about the consequences of playing the way some do and how damaging it can be for them and the community (what I said was mainly aimed at the WvW community not just me btw). Not all “ideals” or “beliefs” are equally “damaging” to a community or your desire to play. Trying the “all opinions are as valid” route is fallacious. They are not. We are sharing opinions here, which is our right to do, but some are a lot harder to defend then others.
Bottom line there are no rules against being able to pick your tournament standing. Dragonbrand has had the privelege of being borderline silver/gold during season 2 and again in season 3, it has the ability to pick where it wants to compete. If DB wants to make a consensus decision and compete in silver more power to them.
Anet likely didn’t want to remove the armor stats entirely because…well,
we’ve all seen what happens in games where there’s no disadvantage to taking your pants off.
Nice try but this has nothing to do with egocentricity which I could accuse you of too btw. It’s about the consequences of playing the way some do and how damaging it can be for them and the community (what I said was mainly aimed at the WvW community not just me btw). Not all “ideals” or “beliefs” are equally “damaging” to a community or your desire to play. Trying the “all opinions are as valid” route is fallacious. They are not. We are sharing opinions here, which is our right to do, but some are a lot harder to defend then others.
I have never criticized your beliefs. My only criticism is your imposing of your beliefs on others and judging others based on your beliefs (of “fun” and “reward” especially). You are free to call me out on egocentricity, but I challenge you to back it up.
I think our position is easy to hold and defend. There are even multiple avenues of doing so.
The social contract is broken. Reward should be directly proportion to effort. This is not only not directly proportional, but is not even a flat line. Instead the relationship is an inversely proportional one.
The ends justify the means. Season 2 was not even or “fun”. T3 WvW right now is very balanced and fun. This server has a choice of no fun for the next few weeks or no fun in Season 3 when things matter more.
None of the people tanking on Dragonbrand are disallowing the rest of the server to try. We are just making sarcastic jokes about how bad this server is and has been at tanking. They are free to continue, and you are even free to encourage them to try even harder now that the challenge is greater for them. After all, you said 1v5 in sPvP would be a fun challenge, right?
Attachments:
Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
Bottom line there are no rules against being able to pick your tournament standing. Dragonbrand has had the privelege of being borderline silver/gold during season 2 and again in season 3, it has the ability to pick where it wants to compete. If DB wants to make a consensus decision and compete in silver more power to them.
If DB/YB/CD all decided to take next match off would their glicko scores all drop because their match scores were lower than the expected totals or would they all stay relatively the same since thier glicko scores are close?
If DB/YB/CD all decided to take next match off would their glicko scores all drop because their match scores were lower than the expected totals or would they all stay relatively the same since thier glicko scores are close?
CD seems to be trying to win this week for whatever reason, or their karma train is just that much better than ours. Glicko looks virtually zero-sum within a matchup so if we had a 3-way tankfest next week they would be generally unchanged. If anything, everyone’s rating would move closer to the average as one server would be doing (very slightly) better than expected and one would be doing worse.
Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
Nice try but this has nothing to do with egocentricity which I could accuse you of too btw. It’s about the consequences of playing the way some do and how damaging it can be for them and the community (what I said was mainly aimed at the WvW community not just me btw). Not all “ideals” or “beliefs” are equally “damaging” to a community or your desire to play. Trying the “all opinions are as valid” route is fallacious. They are not. We are sharing opinions here, which is our right to do, but some are a lot harder to defend then others.
I have never criticized your beliefs. My only criticism is your imposing of your beliefs on others and judging others based on your beliefs (of “fun” and “reward” especially). You are free to call me out on egocentricity, but I challenge you to back it up.
I think our position is easy to hold and defend. There are even multiple avenues of doing so.
The social contract is broken. Reward should be directly proportion to effort. This is not only not directly proportional, but is not even a flat line. Instead the relationship is an inversely proportional one.
The ends justify the means. Season 2 was not even or “fun”. T3 WvW right now is very balanced and fun. This server has a choice of no fun for the next few weeks or no fun in Season 3 when things matter more.
None of the people tanking on Dragonbrand are disallowing the rest of the server to try. We are just making sarcastic jokes about how bad this server is and has been at tanking. They are free to continue, and you are even free to encourage them to try even harder now that the challenge is greater for them. After all, you said 1v5 in sPvP would be a fun challenge, right?
I apologize if I do come down as passing judgement. Despite my intent I can only agree that I am doing so. I totally agree with the idea argued around the social contract. It is how it should be: a TRUE meritocracy (not possible but we should still strive toward it nonetheless). In fact, I argue the same IRL.
The part where “the end justify the mean”, however, is not something I’m so easily adhering to for a lot of reasons that I will leave aside. Still, I was more interested in empowering ppl in ways that has less negative impact on others. Sure, tanking is a strategy that can achieve a desired result but it has collateral damage to not just other servers, but to yours too. Trying to find fun it the game itself rather than in it’s externalities has less negative impacts for others while aiming for the same goal: fun. It is what I wanted to expressed. I did so poorly, but it was the intent behind it all.
I apologize if I do come down as passing judgement. Despite my intent I can only agree that I am doing so. I totally agree with the idea argued around the social contract. It is how it should be: a TRUE meritocracy (not possible but we should still strive toward it nonetheless). In fact, I argue the same IRL.
The part where “the end justify the mean”, however, is not something I’m so easily adhering to for a lot of reasons that I will leave aside. Still, I was more interested in empowering ppl in ways that has less negative impact on others. Sure, tanking is a strategy that can achieve a desired result but it has collateral damage to not just other servers, but to yours too. Trying to find fun it the game itself rather than in it’s externalities has less negative impacts for others while aiming for the same goal: fun. It is what I wanted to expressed. I did so poorly, but it was the intent behind it all.
No apology needed, only acknowledgement.
As far as collateral damage is concerned, many on this server felt Dragonbrand as a whole was collateral damage last season. Further, this server felt it would continue to be collateral damage in the next tournament unless it acted to change its fate.
“One step backwards, two steps forward.” This is basically what the server is doing. Many, especially in America, will prematurely dismiss the idea because of its associations with a naive ideology, but its concept is very valid and applicable here.
Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
Where’s the merit in forcing Dragonbrand to destroy our WvW playerbase by pushing up to gold because tanking is cheating?
The matchup score system does not always accurately reflect a server’s capability. This especially when a high tier server stops wvwing. If ANET were to intervene in placing us I hope it would be with T3, a weight class where DB belongs. We’re not ready to heavy hit with T2. We have glaring coverage gaps where they’ll rip us to shreds.
Here Sirbeaumerdier would have us go to gold and get destroyed for 4 weeks just on the individual merit of tanking is bad. Never mind the larger merit of preserving DB as a WvW server. We’d go to gold and get wrecked and drop like Mags is gonna do.
We need to do a little bit of evil for the greater good.
Are you really all so dainty that the prospect of losing is that terrifying?
Looking at the balance, you guys have a nice rotation of different servers winning.
I would take losing to a server in my own tier a lot rougher than losing to a server 1-2 tiers higher.
You know you aren’t supposed to win and every small victory matters a lot!
Holding a waypoint through the night vs SoS or JQ; beating a T1 chesthumper guild in open combat; winning a couple rounds against HOPE in a GvG…
Those are things you can take away. I know on SoS I’d much rather say “we lost but we sure bloodied JQ quite a bit, made them play overtime to win it”; than just beating Fort Aspenwood again.
Where’s the merit in forcing Dragonbrand to destroy our WvW playerbase by pushing up to gold because tanking is cheating?
The matchup score system does not always accurately reflect a server’s capability. This especially when a high tier server stops wvwing. If ANET were to intervene in placing us I hope it would be with T3, a weight class where DB belongs. We’re not ready to heavy hit with T2. We have glaring coverage gaps where they’ll rip us to shreds.
Here Sirbeaumerdier would have us go to gold and get destroyed for 4 weeks just on the individual merit of tanking is bad. Never mind the larger merit of preserving DB as a WvW server. We’d go to gold and get wrecked and drop like Mags is gonna do.
We need to do a little bit of evil for the greater good.
Someone HAS to go fill that spot. Mag was the server filling that spot the last 2 times, and still probably will, and it is not what destroyed us. FAR from it. I read a lot of irrational thinking here. Loosing in terms of score is not that scary.
Are you really all so dainty that the prospect of losing is that terrifying?
Looking at the balance, you guys have a nice rotation of different servers winning.
I would take losing to a server in my own tier a lot rougher than losing to a server 1-2 tiers higher.
You know you aren’t supposed to win and every small victory matters a lot!
Holding a waypoint through the night vs SoS or JQ; beating a T1 chesthumper guild in open combat; winning a couple rounds against HOPE in a GvG…
Those are things you can take away. I know on SoS I’d much rather say “we lost but we sure bloodied JQ quite a bit, made them play overtime to win it”; than just beating Fort Aspenwood again.
Sure is nice to say that at the top of T2 eh? Why not offer these words about “moral victory” to encourage your friends in Maguuma? “You can win if you believe you won!”
Will you double our tickets if we come to you as walking bags? No? OK we’ll see you after the tournament then!
Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
I transferred to BD from YB after I felt really bad for their performance Sunday night.
We were having fun on Dragonbrand Tuesday night : ) THEN I was told about the tanking thing after we got all of the waypoints back up and were fortifying homeland. I was not pleased, because if I knew WANTED to lose I wouldn’t have come over.
So.. I told them I would just stay on homeland BL because I didn’t want to ruin all the hard-work they were putting in to losing.
But, as the night went on more and more people came to help so we decided to go and take SM. And we did so just fine.
The moral of the story – can you tank? Sure! Plenty of us well get the job done for you : ) Was it enough? Prolly not, but it was fun and everyone worked together!
See you tonight at Reset DB and Enemies – where Team Pooka will be doing everything we can to win the evening!
It’s more likely that Mag will continue to lose over 50 points the next two weeks and drop to 9th-10th ranked server regardless of what the T3 servers do. If Mag does happen to get paired with a T3 server the week before tournament they will lose even more points.
The greater the points difference between servers the lower the point drop will be. This is why a server can continually dominant lower servers and not move up. The inverse is also true. The greater the point difference between SoS the harder it will be for us to lose points to them. Its not just about how badly you lose… it is just as important if not more so who you lose to. We could drop into T3 for the tournament but it is still too far out to predict reliably IMO.
SoR imploded before last season losing 260 points in just three weeks, but SoR did fall from a higher rank. You can expect less and less Mag players in the next two weeks before the tournament starts as they transfer or take a break.
SoR got beat by lower ranked servers or did poorly against similarly scored servers to get the big drops.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
Well good news is that it turns out Crystal Desert wants to fill the spot Maguuma will leave open. If tonight’s matchup is with CD then DB will tank it so they can move forward. If we got bumped down… we’re full bore winning that match.
DB tanking to stay in silver league has nothing to do with rewards and everything to do with fun.
Deny it all you want, but WvW is about population and coverage. When you have a lot less of it than all the opponents you’ll face, WvW is not fun. Ya, you’ll lose the matchup, but even day to day you’re constantly up against 3:1 odds or worse. And it’s not like it’s even close. Even if everyone on the server worked their butts off, they’d still lose by a lot.
A close, competitive matchup, like the ones in tier3 and tier4, are fun. They keep people interested in WvW and GW2 and it keeps them motivated. Being slaughtered for four weeks straight is miserable. If it wasn’t for seasons, moving up for a week wouldn’t be so bad because you’d move back down for another couple weeks. But with the impending season lock, no one in t3 wants to get stuck in that slot in their current state.
So basically, not having fun for two weeks to have good competition for four weeks after that is much better than having good competition for two weeks and not even wanting to go near WvW for the following four.
Not sure why this is sad. Practically no server wants to fight for weeks against a vastly more numerous foe. Being backed up to the legendaries EVERY DAY might seem like fun looking down from BG but trust me it sucks. There is no challenge or competition in T2 any longer and it sucks for everyone in it including SoS.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
If the servers in T3 are having fun in that tier, stay the hell away from T2 and gold league. Your server will be chewed up and spat out and at this stage of GW2’s life will probably end up like Mags.
Not sure why this is sad. Practically no server wants to fight for weeks against a vastly more numerous foe. Being backed up to the legendaries EVERY DAY might seem like fun looking down from BG but trust me it sucks. There is no challenge or competition in T2 any longer and it sucks for everyone in it including SoS.
So to sum up, the Dragonbrand position is that DB could have made Gold, but tanked so an even less able server has to spend the tournament facing Gold-level teams instead of DB. It’s disgraceful on so many levels, and the ability of people to rationalize such behavior as a somehow valid strategy is mind-boggling.
BTW: DB has lost two of its top WvW guilds so far due to this decision. And the enticement of trying to buy new guilds for DB has opened the door for scammers asking people for gold to go toward moving people to DB. If you’ve given gold to someone for this purpose, I’d recommend asking that it be returned, and reporting the scammer if they refuse.
If DB/YB/CD all decided to take next match off would their glicko scores all drop because their match scores were lower than the expected totals or would they all stay relatively the same since thier glicko scores are close?
CD seems to be trying to win this week for whatever reason, or their karma train is just that much better than ours. Glicko looks virtually zero-sum within a matchup so if we had a 3-way tankfest next week they would be generally unchanged. If anything, everyone’s rating would move closer to the average as one server would be doing (very slightly) better than expected and one would be doing worse.
Nah.
CD had a talk, its in the public for anyone to see.
We aren’t trying to win, we just aren’t going to tank. Not CD Style.
Not sure why this is sad. Practically no server wants to fight for weeks against a vastly more numerous foe. Being backed up to the legendaries EVERY DAY might seem like fun looking down from BG but trust me it sucks. There is no challenge or competition in T2 any longer and it sucks for everyone in it including SoS.
So to sum up, the Dragonbrand position is that DB could have made Gold, but tanked so an even less able server has to spend the tournament facing Gold-level teams instead of DB. It’s disgraceful on so many levels, and the ability of people to rationalize such behavior as a somehow valid strategy is mind-boggling.
BTW: DB has lost two of its top WvW guilds so far due to this decision. And the enticement of trying to buy new guilds for DB has opened the door for scammers asking people for gold to go toward moving people to DB. If you’ve given gold to someone for this purpose, I’d recommend asking that it be returned, and reporting the scammer if they refuse.
lul wut? DB hasn’t lost any guilds, and actually just transferred over a large wvw guild, and another smaller one due to the decision to stay out of gold league..
90% of wvw players on the server are excited to take on other servers of similar skill and size in T3, because its fun to have good fights and close matchups and not get wiped…
I was there for the aftermath of season 2 (and the start, when so many guilds transferred over to fight in gold on DB, but friggin never saw them in the maps after week 2 because they couldn’t handle the massive blobs the T2 servers had around).. we lost 6-7 guilds after season 2 and our wvw community was destroyed. now we finally got it built back up and we don’t want it to happen again..
this isn’t about loot or winning, we just want close competition, and the thing we all play games for…FUN
Orswich/Schwabenghast [ING/Ankh] Dragonbrand commander
and sometimes even a decent human being
Not sure why this is sad. Practically no server wants to fight for weeks against a vastly more numerous foe. Being backed up to the legendaries EVERY DAY might seem like fun looking down from BG but trust me it sucks. There is no challenge or competition in T2 any longer and it sucks for everyone in it including SoS.
I’m from Mag and I find this sad. When we actually care to play we can do pretty well against FA and SoS. Maybe not win but still have tons of great fights and a very decent score. The attitude is what sux.
I understand the idea behind the strategy and how well-intended it is but I can’t agree with it.
I was in the last place of Gold league for both season 1 and season 2. I wish my server would have tanked instead of getting facerolled for 9 weeks. Being so close to being stuck in last place Gold again I am definitely pro tank. No way am I going to put up with it again. Servers don’t tank because of rewards they tank because get owned for weeks on end is no kittening fun. We want close to fair fights but Anet is either unable or unwilling to fix the population/coverage disparity between servers.
This season is considerably shorter which will help not completely destroy a servers morale but even then, 4 weeks is still a pretty long time to get kitten on.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
I was in the last place of Gold league for both season 1 and season 2. I wish my server would have tanked instead of getting facerolled for 9 weeks. Being so close to being stuck in last place Gold again I am definitely pro tank. No way am I going to put up with it again. Servers don’t tank because of rewards they tank because get owned for weeks on end is no kittening fun. We want close to fair fights but Anet is either unable or unwilling to fix the population/coverage disparity between servers.
This season is considerably shorter which will help not completely destroy a servers morale but even then, 4 weeks is still a pretty long time to get kitten on.
I find this line of thinking pretty dubious. So because you fear to have 4 weeks of curb-stomping you are willing to have several weeks of curb-stomping before the tournament to “tank”. Of course, the effect on the server morale will be soooo different, make sense… :/
Not sure why this is sad. Practically no server wants to fight for weeks against a vastly more numerous foe. Being backed up to the legendaries EVERY DAY might seem like fun looking down from BG but trust me it sucks. There is no challenge or competition in T2 any longer and it sucks for everyone in it including SoS.
So to sum up, the Dragonbrand position is that DB could have made Gold, but tanked so an even less able server has to spend the tournament facing Gold-level teams instead of DB. It’s disgraceful on so many levels, and the ability of people to rationalize such behavior as a somehow valid strategy is mind-boggling.
BTW: DB has lost two of its top WvW guilds so far due to this decision. And the enticement of trying to buy new guilds for DB has opened the door for scammers asking people for gold to go toward moving people to DB. If you’ve given gold to someone for this purpose, I’d recommend asking that it be returned, and reporting the scammer if they refuse.
lul wut? DB hasn’t lost any guilds, and actually just transferred over a large wvw guild, and another smaller one due to the decision to stay out of gold league..
90% of wvw players on the server are excited to take on other servers of similar skill and size in T3, because its fun to have good fights and close matchups and not get wiped…
I was there for the aftermath of season 2 (and the start, when so many guilds transferred over to fight in gold on DB, but friggin never saw them in the maps after week 2 because they couldn’t handle the massive blobs the T2 servers had around).. we lost 6-7 guilds after season 2 and our wvw community was destroyed. now we finally got it built back up and we don’t want it to happen again..
this isn’t about loot or winning, we just want close competition, and the thing we all play games for…FUN
Considering you followed up a post that mentioned one of them, AKD, the other is dawn.
Previously, the story was we lost 3 guilds, now it’s 6 or 7? Of the 3 guilds in the original tale, at least 2 of those did not leave due to the bad season. I can’t speak to the 3-4 additional ones, as this is the first I’ve seen of this number.
But losing guilds (whether true, or a pack of lies) is neither here nor there. You can’t build a quality server community on a foundation of throwing matches.
I don’t see how Anet can justify PUNISHING players for not bandwagooning the server(s) most likely to join.
They are focused on the idea of rewarding winners but seem to be missing the point that winning in WvW is based on numbers more than skill. There is a reason why playground kickball games have captains pick one player at a time and professional sports have players drafts instead of letting all the players pick the team that they want to play on. If you let every player pick their own team and they all picked what they thought would be the winning team, it would quickly destroy the sport. Since it would be difficult to take that choice away from players (who will want to play with their friends), they need to give the players other incentives to give playing for less competitive servers a try rather than offer nothing but lesser rewards for doing so.
If you let every player pick their own team and they all picked what they thought would be the winning team, it would quickly destroy the sport.
RIP GvG
While I have no interest in GVG, I do feel for those that like that aspect. I guess anet does not want to support it in fear that even less players/guilds are active in wvw, but don’t they lose them anyway?
Back to the topic, a 1-12 / 13-24 setup may have been better. I don’t know how many really care about the rewards, but are more concerned being stuck as the whipping dog for 4 weeks… I suppose one could got eotm for wvw rewards :/
I can only conclude that the 6-9-9 leagues indicate that the population distribution does not linearly decline down the ranks. Most of it is concentrated near the top.
Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
I was in the last place of Gold league for both season 1 and season 2. I wish my server would have tanked instead of getting facerolled for 9 weeks. Being so close to being stuck in last place Gold again I am definitely pro tank. No way am I going to put up with it again. Servers don’t tank because of rewards they tank because get owned for weeks on end is no kittening fun. We want close to fair fights but Anet is either unable or unwilling to fix the population/coverage disparity between servers.
This season is considerably shorter which will help not completely destroy a servers morale but even then, 4 weeks is still a pretty long time to get kitten on.
I find this line of thinking pretty dubious. So because you fear to have 4 weeks of curb-stomping you are willing to have several weeks of curb-stomping before the tournament to “tank”. Of course, the effect on the server morale will be soooo different, make sense… :/
This is not only illogical, it’s cheap.
We aren’t getting curb stomped, we just don’t give a crap about PPT. We still go out and have great fights but we don’t worry about defending or even capping for that matter. We have a lot of fun and knowing that we won’t have to face the T1 blobs is very good for morale. It might be cheap, but it sure as hell better than the alternative.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
If DB get into gold, I wouldn’t be surprised that we will pull another Maguuma. You don’t know how many guildies in the small PVX guild I’m in transfered after last tournament. Some SOS, some FA, I also considered transfering if EDGE didn’t come. Getting base kitten d isn’t fun. And fun is what keeps the pugs in wvw.
If DB get into gold, I wouldn’t be surprised that we will pull another Maguuma. You don’t know how many guildies in the small PVX guild I’m in transfered after last tournament. Some SOS, some FA, I also considered transfering if EDGE didn’t come. Getting base kitten d isn’t fun. And fun is what keeps the pugs in wvw.
Can understand that (BG got it rough last season), but this whole “race to the bottom” is even worse for your server imo, as it gives the impression that your server isn’t trying to someone who may come in to WvW for the first time say, today, since WvW will be flooded with AP hunters when S3 starts and coverage goes out the window with near full maps for most of the first week and the whole “tanking to get out of gold” becomes rather irrelevant
Expac sucks for WvW players. Asura master race
Beastgate | Faerie Law
Currently residing on SBI
If DB get into gold, I wouldn’t be surprised that we will pull another Maguuma. You don’t know how many guildies in the small PVX guild I’m in transfered after last tournament. Some SOS, some FA, I also considered transfering if EDGE didn’t come. Getting base kitten d isn’t fun. And fun is what keeps the pugs in wvw.
Can understand that (BG got it rough last season), but this whole “race to the bottom” is even worse for your server imo, as it gives the impression that your server isn’t trying to someone who may come in to WvW for the first time say, today, since WvW will be flooded with AP hunters when S3 starts and coverage goes out the window with near full maps for most of the first week and the whole “tanking to get out of gold” becomes rather irrelevant
Mag not even trying is what lead me to quit the server yesterday. I finally had enough of this BS attitude permeating the server. When it is to the point where you aren’t outnumbered and nobody on your BL help you defend garri when you asked for it several times you realize you are very alone who wants to play and contribute. Failing to keep an objective is perfectly acceptable but not even trying, all the time, despite asking for help is not. I even got laugh at for speaking my mind about it…
Long story short, yeah, not trying to win can be bad for your community. Moreso than not winning if you ask me. I decided to try SoR, thinking it was a server that probably learned something out of it’s previous debacle. I’ll see how it will go, maybe it won’t be better after all. However, the first thing that jumped in my face when I started playing there was people saying “please” and “thank you”… and I realized it had been a looooooong time since I experienced something that should be taken for granted among adults…
Not sure why this is sad. Practically no server wants to fight for weeks against a vastly more numerous foe. Being backed up to the legendaries EVERY DAY might seem like fun looking down from BG but trust me it sucks. There is no challenge or competition in T2 any longer and it sucks for everyone in it including SoS.
So to sum up, the Dragonbrand position is that DB could have made Gold, but tanked so an even less able server has to spend the tournament facing Gold-level teams instead of DB. It’s disgraceful on so many levels, and the ability of people to rationalize such behavior as a somehow valid strategy is mind-boggling.
BTW: DB has lost two of its top WvW guilds so far due to this decision. And the enticement of trying to buy new guilds for DB has opened the door for scammers asking people for gold to go toward moving people to DB. If you’ve given gold to someone for this purpose, I’d recommend asking that it be returned, and reporting the scammer if they refuse.
lul wut? DB hasn’t lost any guilds, and actually just transferred over a large wvw guild, and another smaller one due to the decision to stay out of gold league..
90% of wvw players on the server are excited to take on other servers of similar skill and size in T3, because its fun to have good fights and close matchups and not get wiped…
I was there for the aftermath of season 2 (and the start, when so many guilds transferred over to fight in gold on DB, but friggin never saw them in the maps after week 2 because they couldn’t handle the massive blobs the T2 servers had around).. we lost 6-7 guilds after season 2 and our wvw community was destroyed. now we finally got it built back up and we don’t want it to happen again..
this isn’t about loot or winning, we just want close competition, and the thing we all play games for…FUN
Considering you followed up a post that mentioned one of them, AKD, the other is dawn.
Previously, the story was we lost 3 guilds, now it’s 6 or 7? Of the 3 guilds in the original tale, at least 2 of those did not leave due to the bad season. I can’t speak to the 3-4 additional ones, as this is the first I’ve seen of this number.
But losing guilds (whether true, or a pack of lies) is neither here nor there. You can’t build a quality server community on a foundation of throwing matches.
yes AKD left, but went to DR which is lower than us because DR is loading up to win silver league.. so I think AKD found their own 100% way to avoid gold league.
but again its about fun and close fights.. not outmanned and outcoveraged.. that’s what people want
Orswich/Schwabenghast [ING/Ankh] Dragonbrand commander
and sometimes even a decent human being
Who cares if Mag tanks this week then they will win, if not SBI will
Not sure why this is sad. Practically no server wants to fight for weeks against a vastly more numerous foe. Being backed up to the legendaries EVERY DAY might seem like fun looking down from BG but trust me it sucks. There is no challenge or competition in T2 any longer and it sucks for everyone in it including SoS.
Who cares…if Mag tanks then they will win Silver, if not SBI will
So to sum up, the Dragonbrand position is that DB could have made Gold, but tanked so an even less able server has to spend the tournament facing Gold-level teams instead of DB. It’s disgraceful on so many levels, and the ability of people to rationalize such behavior as a somehow valid strategy is mind-boggling.
BTW: DB has lost two of its top WvW guilds so far due to this decision. And the enticement of trying to buy new guilds for DB has opened the door for scammers asking people for gold to go toward moving people to DB. If you’ve given gold to someone for this purpose, I’d recommend asking that it be returned, and reporting the scammer if they refuse.
lul wut? DB hasn’t lost any guilds, and actually just transferred over a large wvw guild, and another smaller one due to the decision to stay out of gold league..
90% of wvw players on the server are excited to take on other servers of similar skill and size in T3, because its fun to have good fights and close matchups and not get wiped…
I was there for the aftermath of season 2 (and the start, when so many guilds transferred over to fight in gold on DB, but friggin never saw them in the maps after week 2 because they couldn’t handle the massive blobs the T2 servers had around).. we lost 6-7 guilds after season 2 and our wvw community was destroyed. now we finally got it built back up and we don’t want it to happen again..
this isn’t about loot or winning, we just want close competition, and the thing we all play games for…FUN
Considering you followed up a post that mentioned one of them, AKD, the other is dawn.
Previously, the story was we lost 3 guilds, now it’s 6 or 7? Of the 3 guilds in the original tale, at least 2 of those did not leave due to the bad season. I can’t speak to the 3-4 additional ones, as this is the first I’ve seen of this number.
But losing guilds (whether true, or a pack of lies) is neither here nor there. You can’t build a quality server community on a foundation of throwing matches.
yes AKD left, but went to DR which is lower than us because DR is loading up to win silver league.. so I think AKD found their own 100% way to avoid gold league.
but again its about fun and close fights.. not outmanned and outcoveraged.. that’s what people want
Servers want to stay in Silver because it’s actually pretty great in Silver right now. DB/CD/YB/SBI/DR are all on about equal footing. Every week we all get new servers out of that group (plus IoJ) to fight against. It’s refreshing having a larger list of servers to fight against and the matches will be close. And most importantly, we’re all having fun. Why would any of the servers want to go up to Gold just to get stomped the entire time? And don’t say because of fights. Because our servers are actually pretty well populated in NA right now.
Vyrance – 80 Guardian
GAF – Gaming Age Force // Stormbluff Isle
Servers want to stay in Silver because it’s actually pretty great in Silver right now. DB/CD/YB/SBI/DR are all on about equal footing. Every week we all get new servers out of that group (plus IoJ) to fight against. It’s refreshing having a larger list of servers to fight against and the matches will be close. And most importantly, we’re all having fun. Why would any of the servers want to go up to Gold just to get stomped the entire time? And don’t say because of fights. Because our servers are actually pretty well populated in NA right now.
Because there is no fights when you are last place in Gold League (especially when facing T1). It’s just a 24hr 80-100man blob with a mile long tail laughing and dancing on your dead corpse while they they PvD karma train across you BLs.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
