Guild Wars 2

For those of us who primarily play WvW the game mode is severely broken by continuous server stacking and server exodus. My understanding is that GW2 is not a monthly subscription game. It supposed to be FREE. However, having a consistent enjoyable playable WvW experience without server ques requires a constant jumping from one server to the next and generates, I would assume, a very large income stream for Anet. Paying for one transfer a year might be reasonable, but now there are guilds who move servers 3-4 times a year which means many people who want a resonably stable WvW experience are probably paying more than the HoT expansion will cost in the real money equivalent of gems. How long are we going to support a company that ignores WvW and is making us pay extra for the privilege. This may not be a problem for everyone, but my guess is that at least half the WvW players have transfered servers in the last year and EVERYONE has been impacted by guilds breaking up over transferring. Neglect is destroying the WvW community, yet the process is lining Anet’s pockets nicely.

i have stopped playing because my wvw has been dead for over a year
after 2 big guilds got in a disagreement they left the server and destroyed the wvw population
the server has yet to stabilize

i cant be swapping servers every time 2 guilds get in a hissy fit and destroy the wvw population

so ill say what i said in another post

the price of server transfer does not take wvw players in to consideration

the only people who would pay for a server swap is a wvw player because every thing except for WVW is a mega server

but the price of server swap is being jacked up by all the pve pvp players on a server

so just because my server says “very high” like ALL THE OTHERS… does not mean u have a active wvw server

I heard word they may mega server wvw and that would solve a lot of problems between servers and time zone differences …. but I have my doubts it was true :S

Tspatula.9086:

having a consistent enjoyable playable WvW experience without server ques requires a constant jumping from one server to the next

That’s not true at all. As well, what is fun for you, is not what defines fun for others. In my opinion, if you have to transfer servers regularly to have fun, your either doing it wrong, or this is not the game for you.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Tspatula.9086:

having a consistent enjoyable playable WvW experience without server ques requires a constant jumping from one server to the next

That’s not true at all. As well, what is fun for you, is not what defines fun for others. In my opinion, if you have to transfer servers regularly to have fun, your either doing it wrong, or this is not the game for you.

I don’t think you quite get it. The need to transfer to other servers is almost a requirement in order to enjoy WvW at the moment. The server I’ve been on since the beginning, Stormbluff Isle, hasn’t won a single match in ages because of a lack of WvW players while servers like Dragonbrand and Maguuma are never without full WvW zergs rushing across the map at all times.

Our server has essentially given up since the servers are always stacked against us and at one point there was a whole day of people just dueling each other as if it was a PvP arena rather than a WvW match. It’s absolutely broken. Even I’m thinking of a server transfer at this point because there is simply no balance.

Stopping playing is only going to punish yourself and possibly your server. It will have zero effect on Arena Net. The wvw population has been diminishing at an alarming rate for a while now and they’ve done nothing about it. If it was suddenly to disappear I don’t know that it wouldn’t be a relief. They could just mothball the wvw servers and concentrate 110% of their efforts on pve and pvp.

Kanebrake.6192:

Stopping playing is only going to punish yourself and possibly your server. It will have zero effect on Arena Net. The wvw population has been diminishing at an alarming rate for a while now and they’ve done nothing about it. If it was suddenly to disappear I don’t know that it wouldn’t be a relief. They could just mothball the wvw servers and concentrate 110% of their efforts on pve and pvp.

Yeah, but it just peevs me to no end, if would be one thing if transfers were free at this point, it wouldn’t fix anything, but at least Anet wouldn’t be making huge profits from the mess they created….

I think the problem is the player base and not Arena Net. Just because there’s a free or paid option to transfer servers don’t mean you have to jump willy nilly to the flavor of the week server that happens to be out front.

Most players always look for the easy out like crying over how this class is op and needs nerfing, actively seeking out and engaging outmanned opponents or going after the old tried and true PVDing,

They will then come to the forums and talk bad about PVEers or cry over no opponents to fight even though they are the main reason for most of the problems.

But really why do people blindly follow guilds where the leaders get into a tiff and want to drag everyone to a full stacked server and it’s ques then complain when others do the same thing but in the opposite direction?

Burke.1378:

I don’t think you quite get it. The need to transfer to other servers is almost a requirement in order to enjoy WvW at the moment.

that’s complete nonsense.

not only is changing servers not required, it’s a bad idea and every time you do it, YOU are responsible for making WvW conditions worse for everyone else.

Widebody.5071:

I think the problem is the player base and not Arena Net. Just because there’s a free or paid option to transfer servers don’t mean you have to jump willy nilly to the flavor of the week server that happens to be out front.

People jump because there’s nothing to do on their current server. In the lower tiers wvw is mostly dead. All of this is a result of wvw population decline which is a direct result of how Anet has handled wvw. From unbalanced match ups to bugs to cheats to no new content to whatever else you can think of. If the wvw population was still healthy across the tiers it wouldn’t matter what server you were on because there would always be something to do.

Burke.1378:

I don’t think you quite get it. The need to transfer to other servers is almost a requirement in order to enjoy WvW at the moment.

That makes absolutely no sense. You appear to be confusing subjective opinion with objective fact. I doubt the vast majority of players have transferred servers since it changes to require gems to transfer, and I would bet they are having fun.

You simply need to make friends with and join a guild with folks who have fun together and do not depend on bandwagoning.

Kanebrake.6192:

People jump because there’s nothing to do on their current server. In the lower tiers wvw is mostly dead. All of this is a result of wvw population decline which is a direct result of how Anet has handled wvw. From unbalanced match ups to bugs to cheats to no new content to whatever else you can think of. If the wvw population was still healthy across the tiers it wouldn’t matter what server you were on because there would always be something to do.

No, people jumped because they wanted to bandwagon to already winning servers. That is evident from when they made transfers free before a tournament and everyone tried to stack on T1 or winning T2 servers.

I mean, you can blame Anet if you like, but it won’t make it make sense. They didn’t make players bandwagon servers. Players made that choice. The free transfers were offered because of massive population demand. players demanded transfers for free. Anet granted the request. player bandwagon stacked. Now players cry because there is not population balance. I prefer to blame those who moved directly.

By the way, if Anets so bad, why are you still here? The hipster movement of bashing a developer while consistently being a patron of their games is baffling. If they do such a bad job, why don’t you play a different game?

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Burke.1378:

I don’t think you quite get it. The need to transfer to other servers is almost a requirement in order to enjoy WvW at the moment.

that’s complete nonsense.

not only is changing servers not required, it’s a bad idea and every time you do it, YOU are responsible for making WvW conditions worse for everyone else.

Disagree.

No it’s not a requirement to move but if you have a 20 or 30 person wvw focused guild in t5 or below (especially t7&8) you’re going to find yourself spending a lot of time beating your head against empty keeps and towers. T4 and above isn’t too bad but even t3&4 suffers a little from population issues.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Burke.1378:

I don’t think you quite get it. The need to transfer to other servers is almost a requirement in order to enjoy WvW at the moment.

that’s complete nonsense.

not only is changing servers not required, it’s a bad idea and every time you do it, YOU are responsible for making WvW conditions worse for everyone else.

you do realize that what you are saying is irrelevant because mass transfers have been, and are happening. So regardless of any individuals move, their WvW environment is being changed because of it. More power to anyone who doesn’t have issues in WvW, lucky to be you. Unfortunately, I am not, nor are my guildies, in your position. Please respect the fact that your’s is only one experience which may or may not be shared by the majority…. (as is mine)

coglin.1867:

Burke.1378:

I don’t think you quite get it. The need to transfer to other servers is almost a requirement in order to enjoy WvW at the moment.

That makes absolutely no sense. You appear to be confusing subjective opinion with objective fact. I doubt the vast majority of players have transferred servers since it changes to require gems to transfer, and I would bet they are having fun.

You simply need to make friends with and join a guild with folks who have fun together and do not depend on bandwagoning.

Kanebrake.6192:

People jump because there’s nothing to do on their current server. In the lower tiers wvw is mostly dead. All of this is a result of wvw population decline which is a direct result of how Anet has handled wvw. From unbalanced match ups to bugs to cheats to no new content to whatever else you can think of. If the wvw population was still healthy across the tiers it wouldn’t matter what server you were on because there would always be something to do.

No, people jumped because they wanted to bandwagon to already winning servers. That is evident from when they made transfers free before a tournament and everyone tried to stack on T1 or winning T2 servers.

I mean, you can blame Anet if you like, but it won’t make it make sense. They didn’t make players bandwagon servers. Players made that choice. The free transfers were offered because of massive population demand. players demanded transfers for free. Anet granted the request. player bandwagon stacked. Now players cry because there is not population balance. I prefer to blame those who moved directly.

By the way, if Anets so bad, why are you still here? The hipster movement of bashing a developer while consistently being a patron of their games is baffling. If they do such a bad job, why don’t you play a different game?

Coglin, There is soo much wrong with what you are saying I dont’ even know where to start, but people don’t have to play WvW the way you do right?

So on one hand, you want your perspective appreciated and understood, while on the other hand you want to tell everyone else that their perspective is “irrelevant”? That does not suggest that you want perspectives respected. It suggest you have no desire to have a serious discussion if it doesn’t agree with your view.

To answer your question in the title of the thread, perhaps yes, you should stop playing. Your choices are play where you are and make the best of it, transfer to another server, or stop playing.

I play on a T6 server and it’s pretty barren except for a few days out of the week and from what I noticed the population drops correspond with transfers/ server stacking and nerfs.
I choose my server due to it’s low population which I figured would mean more play time for me.
Blaming Arena Net for wvw population problems is like blaming them for TP prices and not the greedy sellers.

While the players do the stacking – its Anet that sets the rules and has ultimate control over the server balancing. Since the player base as a whole can’t/won’t do anything about it. Its up to the owners of the environment to develop and implement something to mitigate these huge wvw player base disparities.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

While the players do the stacking – its Anet that sets the rules and has ultimate control over the server balancing. Since the player base as a whole can’t/won’t do anything about it. Its up to the owners of the environment to develop and implement something to mitigate these huge wvw player base disparities.

Why? Why do they need to do anything? Do you think if players were artificially forced out of populated servers onto lesser populated ones, that many would quite wen they are ripped out of there established community? As I see it, there is reason to believe artificially forcing players into servers they didn’t chose, will cause the over all population to decline greatly.

coglin.1867:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

While the players do the stacking – its Anet that sets the rules and has ultimate control over the server balancing. Since the player base as a whole can’t/won’t do anything about it. Its up to the owners of the environment to develop and implement something to mitigate these huge wvw player base disparities.

Why? Why do they need to do anything? Do you think if players were artificially forced out of populated servers onto lesser populated ones, that many would quite wen they are ripped out of there established community? As I see it, there is reason to believe artificially forcing players into servers they didn’t chose, will cause the over all population to decline greatly.

Well, duh, its their game – of course they should do something.

The population mismatch is having a direct effect on the entire game mode.

I also never said how they should change the game – that’s your strawman.

Quit being such a white night. There is and has been a problem with the population balance across WvW and its high time that Anet took another stab at implementing ways to mitigate it.

coglin.1867:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

While the players do the stacking – its Anet that sets the rules and has ultimate control over the server balancing. Since the player base as a whole can’t/won’t do anything about it. Its up to the owners of the environment to develop and implement something to mitigate these huge wvw player base disparities.

Why? Why do they need to do anything? Do you think if players were artificially forced out of populated servers onto lesser populated ones, that many would quite wen they are ripped out of there established community? As I see it, there is reason to believe artificially forcing players into servers they didn’t chose, will cause the over all population to decline greatly.

Coglin, you are still missing the point. If enough other guilds leave your server, your WvW experience is going to be radically changed even though you didn’t do anything. If WvW is a big part, or perhaps the only part of your GW2 experience, if your server dies, through no fault of your own, then you either have to transfer, or be stuck with a game that is no longer fun. Anet shouldn’t be making a profit from this situation… they control transfer costs, and the overall structure of WvW. Sure we can also simply quit, and many have, and I just might. That will ultimately affect your WvW experience…

Tspatula.9086:

coglin.1867:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

While the players do the stacking – its Anet that sets the rules and has ultimate control over the server balancing. Since the player base as a whole can’t/won’t do anything about it. Its up to the owners of the environment to develop and implement something to mitigate these huge wvw player base disparities.

Why? Why do they need to do anything? Do you think if players were artificially forced out of populated servers onto lesser populated ones, that many would quite wen they are ripped out of there established community? As I see it, there is reason to believe artificially forcing players into servers they didn’t chose, will cause the over all population to decline greatly.

Coglin, you are still missing the point. If enough other guilds leave your server, your WvW experience is going to be radically changed even though you didn’t do anything. If WvW is a big part, or perhaps the only part of your GW2 experience, if your server dies, through no fault of your own, then you either have to transfer, or be stuck with a game that is no longer fun. Anet shouldn’t be making a profit from this situation… they control transfer costs, and the overall structure of WvW. Sure we can also simply quit, and many have, and I just might. That will ultimately affect your WvW experience…

No, you see your not understanding. The reason I say that, is you are telling me what is fun for me. You assume that because it isn’t fun for you, that you have the right to declare who else it is or is not for. Perhaps it would be in everyone’s best interest if you posted for yourself, and let the rest of us, individual post our own perspectives, and decide what is fun, for ourselves.

So you are not having fun. I understand that. What do you want anyone to do about it? You want Anet to make a change? What change do you want them to make? Do you care how it effects everyone else?

Good news is you can transfer once a week. Support Anet and buy gems or Google something like “fastest gold farming walkthru”. Find a server that works for your sitch.

If your server loyal you could try to be the treasurer or post on their website about recuitment.

coglin.1867:

Tspatula.9086:

Coglin, you are still missing the point. If enough other guilds leave your server, your WvW experience is going to be radically changed even though you didn’t do anything. If WvW is a big part, or perhaps the only part of your GW2 experience, if your server dies, through no fault of your own, then you either have to transfer, or be stuck with a game that is no longer fun. Anet shouldn’t be making a profit from this situation… they control transfer costs, and the overall structure of WvW. Sure we can also simply quit, and many have, and I just might. That will ultimately affect your WvW experience…

No, you see your not understanding. The reason I say that, is you are telling me what is fun for me. You assume that because it isn’t fun for you, that you have the right to declare who else it is or is not for. Perhaps it would be in everyone’s best interest if you posted for yourself, and let the rest of us, individual post our own perspectives, and decide what is fun, for ourselves.

So you are not having fun. I understand that. What do you want anyone to do about it? You want Anet to make a change? What change do you want them to make? Do you care how it effects everyone else?

Coglin, your response comes across as incredibly defensive, and you do indeed appear to be misunderstanding or ignoring Tspatula’s point. No where in his post do I see him “telling you what is fun for you”. He is relating an anecdote that has been repeated by many critics of the current implementation of WvW, which is that the WvW experience is drastically affected by the population of your server. Furthermore, not only do individual players have little to no control over the population of their server, but Anet has not taken any measures as of yet to try and create balance for populations across servers, including some fairly logical ones like tying the price of server transfers to server WvW population/tier.

I won’t speak for what is fun for you, but I have been through 3 mass server exoduses since I started playing the game at launch. They are not fun, for me, or for anyone I have ever talked to about them. All 3 drastically reduced the fun I was getting out of WvW, and required me to transfer to a higher population server to find that fun again. I’m still playing WvW, but if I hadn’t transferred, I wouldn’t be.

coglin.1867:

Why do they need to do anything? Do you think if players were artificially forced out of populated servers onto lesser populated ones, that many would quite wen they are ripped out of there established community? As I see it, there is reason to believe artificially forcing players into servers they didn’t chose, will cause the over all population to decline greatly.

Why were these questions avoided in this discussion when asked in a previous post? Is this thread for pointless complaining, or with intention to discuss solutions? Why are those with an issue here making a new thread when we already have threads on the front page on this topic?

because it is in there best interest as a respectable business

any business that cares about there costumers and there product
should worry about there costumers experience

i cant see a reason y they would not do something about it

if they where a restaurant u don’t want your costumers eating out of a dirty kitchen
and u would not charge them if they had a dirty plate

EDIT^: constructive criticism is a thing

coglin.1867:

Why are those with an issue here making a new thread when we already have threads on the front page on this topic?

Because nothing is being done about it and no one is addressing the problem. Because there is virtually zero communication from them about it. Because a hundred reasons.

coglin.1867:

coglin.1867:

Why do they need to do anything? Do you think if players were artificially forced out of populated servers onto lesser populated ones, that many would quite wen they are ripped out of there established community? As I see it, there is reason to believe artificially forcing players into servers they didn’t chose, will cause the over all population to decline greatly.

Why were these questions avoided in this discussion when asked in a previous post? Is this thread for pointless complaining, or with intention to discuss solutions? Why are those with an issue here making a new thread when we already have threads on the front page on this topic?

1. Your questions are being avoided because they are off-topic. The OP is complaining about what he sees as a flaw in WvW population balance. I never once saw him propose merging servers as a solution, so your questions don’t make any sense.

2. Complaining is not pointless. It’s not “hipster” to dish on a game you enjoy; if anything, especially when in this case the OP has brought up his points in a constructive manner, it means he really cares about the game and just wants it to be better. There have been many, many solutions posed over the past 2.5 years to this problem. We’ve had a CDI thread dedicated solely to the issue. The developers have made it very clear they recognize it is an issue. But we haven’t seen any movement from Anet about it yet, nor have they discussed that they are even planning to change it. At this point, I think it’s fair to complain without offering more of the same solutions that have already been discussed ad nauseam.

3. I just checked the front page, and we don’t have any threads on this topic currently. The closest thing is a long active thread complaining specifically about server population status and the lack of relation it has to active WvW population. Not the same thing as a topic complaining about transfer pricing and population imbalance.

Burke.1378:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Tspatula.9086:

having a consistent enjoyable playable WvW experience without server ques requires a constant jumping from one server to the next

That’s not true at all. As well, what is fun for you, is not what defines fun for others. In my opinion, if you have to transfer servers regularly to have fun, your either doing it wrong, or this is not the game for you.

I don’t think you quite get it. The need to transfer to other servers is almost a requirement in order to enjoy WvW at the moment. The server I’ve been on since the beginning, Stormbluff Isle, hasn’t won a single match in ages because of a lack of WvW players while servers like Dragonbrand and Maguuma are never without full WvW zergs rushing across the map at all times.

Our server has essentially given up since the servers are always stacked against us and at one point there was a whole day of people just dueling each other as if it was a PvP arena rather than a WvW match. It’s absolutely broken. Even I’m thinking of a server transfer at this point because there is simply no balance.

If your server had given up then you would be in T8. Apparently there are still people fighting on your server to retain their place in T3. I find it hard to believe that I, in Sorrow’s Furnace, a T8 server, can always find opposition in one form or another at most times of the day/night – but someone in a T3 server cannot.

BrickFurious.7169:

1. Your questions are being avoided because they are off-topic. The OP is complaining about what he sees as a flaw in WvW population balance. I never once saw him propose merging servers as a solution, so your questions don’t make any sense.

Considering it is a violation of the forums code of conduct to make purely complain threads with no constructive value, I would say it is very relevant. Particularly when re making threads on the same topic also violates the CoC. I hardly see how asking constructive questions is what’s off topic here.

BrickFurious.7169:

2. Complaining is not pointless. It’s not “hipster” to dish on a game you enjoy; if anything, especially when in this case the OP has brought up his points in a constructive manner, it means he really cares about the game and just wants it to be better. There have been many, many solutions posed over the past 2.5 years to this problem. We’ve had a CDI thread dedicated solely to the issue. The developers have made it very clear they recognize it is an issue. But we haven’t seen any movement from Anet about it yet, nor have they discussed that they are even planning to change it. At this point, I think it’s fair to complain without offering more of the same solutions that have already been discussed ad nauseam.

Yeah, it is kind of hipster, to blame the dev team for the players actions. There where thread upon thread an post upon post, demanding that they made transfers free before the tournament in which they did make it free.

It was free at one time before, and the forums were rampant with the spam of threads demanding they start charging for transfers, as folks were often server hopping ten fold what they are now.

So they gave the populace what they ask for then. So this claim that they never listen to folks or give the population what they ask for is dishonest.

BrickFurious.7169:

3. I just checked the front page, and we don’t have any threads on this topic currently. The closest thing is a long active thread complaining specifically about server population status and the lack of relation it has to active WvW population. Not the same thing as a topic complaining about transfer pricing and population imbalance.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Server-Population-Status-2015/page/3#post4975565

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/outnumbered-in-WvW-2/page/2#post4977855

Both on this topic. Both on the front page.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/2-12-2015-WvW-report-on-Unbalanced-Match-ups/page/7#post4913770

4 whole days old, but sure, not on the front page. Anyone with any real concern, should at least look within the last week.

Your right, they are not the same thing. In some of those, folks are at least trying to have a discussion and be remotely constructive on some levels, rather then a general complaint thread.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/forum-code-of-conduct/

Read the forum before asking a question. There’s a good chance your question or topic has already been answered or discussed

•Use a relevant thread title that clearly expresses the subject of the thread.

•Do not engage in staff call-outs. Using the words “ArenaNet” or any staff member’s name will not expedite the answer to your query.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Considering it is a violation of the forums code of conduct to make purely complain threads with no constructive value, I would say it is very relevant. Particularly when re making threads on the same topic also violates the CoC. I hardly see how asking constructive questions is what’s off topic here.

To borrow one of your friend Coglin’s favorite lines: You seem to be confusing subjective opinion with objective fact. You believe the OP is simply complaining and not being constructive. I disagree and believe his complaints have constructive value, because they are tactfully highlighting an issue that Anet has thusfar, in many players’ minds, failed to adequately address.. Therefore I don’t see the forum violation (and may I add that what is and isn’t a forum violation is not yours to decide).

dancingmonkey.4902:

Yeah, it is kind of hipster, to blame the dev team for the players actions. There where thread upon thread an post upon post, demanding that they made transfers free before the tournament in which they did make it free.

It was free at one time before, and the forums were rampant with the spam of threads demanding they start charging for transfers, as folks were often server hopping ten fold what they are now.

So they gave the populace what they ask for then. So this claim that they never listen to folks or give the population what they ask for is dishonest.

No one is claiming Anet never listens to folks or never gives the population what they ask for. The OP is reiterating a very specific complaint, about a specific issue (population balance and server transfer problems), that many players believe has been neglected by Anet. And it’s disingenuous on your part to claim he’s blaming the dev for player actions, while in the next paragraph outlining exactly the kind of changes Anet has made to their transfer pricing and the effect it had on player actions. Players aren’t just transferring in a vacuum. The policies and transfer structures Anet puts in place have an effect on player transferring behavior, and it’s perfectly appropriate to criticize Anet’s implementation of these structures.

Yes, transfers were once all free, and people complained, and Anet added pricing for transfers. However, the particular way in which they added pricing caused a new set of problems for many players. Therefore, it is still reasonable to ask for more modifications to server transfer pricing or population balancing systems.

dancingmonkey.4902:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Server-Population-Status-2015/page/3#post4975565

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/outnumbered-in-WvW-2/page/2#post4977855

Both on this topic. Both on the front page.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/2-12-2015-WvW-report-on-Unbalanced-Match-ups/page/7#post4913770

4 whole days old, but sure, not on the front page. Anyone with any real concern, should at least look within the last week.

Your right, they are not the same thing. In some of those, folks are at least trying to have a discussion and be remotely constructive on some levels, rather then a general complaint thread.

So you agree with me that those two posts on the front page aren’t the same topic? That’s the only point I was trying to make. The third link you posted is indeed about the same topic, except it was created by the WvW forum specialist, who hasn’t updated the thread in weeks. The only recent activity on that thread has been to try and figure out where he went and why he hasn’t updated it.

If anything, the OP’s new thread is a response to that fact, and to the general frustration among many in the WvW community that we haven’t heard about any plans from Anet to address this issue (I once again must point out that in the previous CDI thread, Anet agreed that population balance was a problem that needed to be addressed). I understand that you seem to be quite happy on the server you’re at, with its current population. That’s great. Now instead of shooting down someone that is complaining from a different server, perhaps you could try using a little empathy; if you don’t understand or disagree with the OP’s complaints, why don’t you ask him to elaborate on his complaints?

BrickFurious.7169:

Now instead of shooting down someone that is complaining from a different server, perhaps you could try using a little empathy; if you don’t understand or disagree with the OP’s complaints, why don’t you ask him to elaborate on his complaints?

What server is he on? What server am I on? Since you suggest we are on different servers.

Empathy? I charge $200 an hour for my therapy sessions.

Ask for elaboration? I see more then one post already asking questions to be productive and get more information and purpose. They had questions that deliberately avoided. I believe you defending avoiding them.

BrickFurious.7169:

coglin.1867:

coglin.1867:

Why do they need to do anything? Do you think if players were artificially forced out of populated servers onto lesser populated ones, that many would quite wen they are ripped out of there established community? As I see it, there is reason to believe artificially forcing players into servers they didn’t chose, will cause the over all population to decline greatly.

Why were these questions avoided in this discussion when asked in a previous post? Is this thread for pointless complaining, or with intention to discuss solutions? Why are those with an issue here making a new thread when we already have threads on the front page on this topic?

The OP is complaining about what he sees as a flaw in WvW population balance. I never once saw him propose merging servers as a solution, so your questions don’t make any sense.

It is interesting that you seem to think you get to determine what questions do or do not make sense. Oh wait, you can’t. Care to answer these or any other questions avoided, as to have some constructive direction, instead of this “share out feeling”, pointless complaining in which we “Empathis” we un constructive complaint threads.

Coglin/dancingmonkey (not sure if the same person, you both have a similar posting style), it seems we’re just talking past each other at this point, probably better to agree to disagree.

Tspatula, there was a great, long thread on this topic a few months back with a lot of good discussion. I bumped it to the front page, but you can also find it here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Solution-to-fix-the-population-imbalance/first

In short, Anet does seem to agree with you that there is a problem, but I agree it’s frustrating that we haven’t heard anything about the development of a solution yet.

Widebody.5071:

I think the problem is the player base and not Arena Net. Just because there’s a free or paid option to transfer servers don’t mean you have to jump willy nilly to the flavor of the week server that happens to be out front.

Most players always look for the easy out like crying over how this class is op and needs nerfing, actively seeking out and engaging outmanned opponents or going after the old tried and true PVDing,

They will then come to the forums and talk bad about PVEers or cry over no opponents to fight even though they are the main reason for most of the problems.

But really why do people blindly follow guilds where the leaders get into a tiff and want to drag everyone to a full stacked server and it’s ques then complain when others do the same thing but in the opposite direction?

I disagree that it’s a player created problem. It’s easy to say “people blindly follow guilds” but people often want to keep playing with others they know and like. Furthermore, its human nature to take the easier road, been that way forever and this wasn’t going to be put on hold for the sake of WvWvW, also, this is not the only cause for imbalance. Regardless of regional server labels, online gaming communities these days are global and people’s play times shift (for example, that one guild holding down a rough timezone isn’t going to do that forever-been there done that). If the game designers of competitive online games don’t consider this and take measures, then their doing it wrong.

Forcing server population management on players is kind of silly to be honest and NA/EU/CN players are all complaining about PvDoor and being blobbed off maps. Its easy to punch down and blame players rather than the people running the show I suppose. At its core, multiple 24/7 open maps with a scoreboard that’s a week long is poor design for a competitive mode and it’s probably too late to make the drastic changes needed to actually balance it without ticking off a lot of players.

BrickFurious.7169:

Coglin/dancingmonkey (not sure if the same person, you both have a similar posting style), it seems we’re just talking past each other at this point, probably better to agree to disagree.

Tspatula, there was a great, long thread on this topic a few months back with a lot of good discussion. I bumped it to the front page, but you can also find it here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Solution-to-fix-the-population-imbalance/first

In short, Anet does seem to agree with you that there is a problem, but I agree it’s frustrating that we haven’t heard anything about the development of a solution yet.

The issue isn’t whether or not there is an issue. It is how to solve it, and if we want to have player rights taken away and be forced out among servers. How do you dictate who goes where? Which guilds are forced out of there community and which ones stay? How many will quit over forced population distribution?

No, I am not Coglin. I can only presume you are making that accusation in an effort to bait me with that. You do realize that when you cannot convince someone to see it your way, that making accusations of that nature do not help. I have been asked if I am lord something or other and multiple people hundreds of other posters over the years on the forums. It seems to me that when various people do not believe in biased and irrational attacks on Anet, are the way to get positive attention on the forums, is when these personal attacks arise, claiming us all to be one in the same.

gennyt.3428:

snip

At this point the problem is overwhelmingly the fault of the players. Sure Anet could have done things differently when the game was still in development. But this late in the game, when people are literally buying out other guilds and coaxing their friends to transfer. Even when Anet opened up free transfers, expecting people to transfer down to lower populations – the players chose mostly to try to pack as full into the higher tiers as they could, and still continue to complain about them being full, meaning they’re trying to get more people in the higher tier servers.

Anet has nothing to do with player bandwagoning.

I only play Pve game mode: sometimes would take risk to play wvw until i instant die by the same reward only no challenge classes. It is obvious why i do not play wvw and pvp.

Serious! What is the point of using all of your time for a game company who refuse to make the game fun and challenging: especially by the same classes? Yes! players do not play games because of professions but for wvw and pvp: it do matter.

There is no balance to make the classes in the game fun, challenging and risk-reward. Why would you pay anything for the same problem? why pay anything to see the same problem getting much worse? Why would you pay anything for the same ignoring our problems over and over agin? Why would you pay for anything when you report problems and wintess your problem hide and than be deleted? Why should you pay for instant death?- to always play for 1-3 seconds?

Since i join Guild Wars 2: i only pay 1 time and that was the end of it. I do not pay for problems be ignored, I pay for problems be resolve I do not pay for no fun and no challenge, I pay for fun and challenge

Lest me ask you: would you pay for problems? or would you pay for solution?

What make me surprised when i first start to read the problem in the forum: that these problems should be already resolve in Guild Wars 2 beta. Yes! beta.

Here is a short description of testers:

“Testers are responsible for checking that the game works, is easy to use, has actions that make sense, and contains fun gameplay”

Do you see what is wrong with this? Be the judge now

Turk.5460:

gennyt.3428:

snip

At this point the problem is overwhelmingly the fault of the players. Sure Anet could have done things differently when the game was still in development. But this late in the game, when people are literally buying out other guilds and coaxing their friends to transfer. Even when Anet opened up free transfers, expecting people to transfer down to lower populations – the players chose mostly to try to pack as full into the higher tiers as they could, and still continue to complain about them being full, meaning they’re trying to get more people in the higher tier servers.

Anet has nothing to do with player bandwagoning.

Why do you say “Even when Anet opened up free transfers, expecting people to transfer down to lower populations”? Did they ever say that was their expectation? If that’s what they expected or intended to happen why didn’t they simply close the transfers to the upper tier servers?

At this point bandwagoning has nothing to do with the issues. The issue is that there are too many servers for the current population. It is spread too thin. Speaking specifically of the wvw population not server population in general.

Kanebrake.6192:

Turk.5460:

gennyt.3428:

snip

At this point the problem is overwhelmingly the fault of the players. Sure Anet could have done things differently when the game was still in development. But this late in the game, when people are literally buying out other guilds and coaxing their friends to transfer. Even when Anet opened up free transfers, expecting people to transfer down to lower populations – the players chose mostly to try to pack as full into the higher tiers as they could, and still continue to complain about them being full, meaning they’re trying to get more people in the higher tier servers.

Anet has nothing to do with player bandwagoning.

Why do you say “Even when Anet opened up free transfers, expecting people to transfer down to lower populations”? Did they ever say that was their expectation? If that’s what they expected or intended to happen why didn’t they simply close the transfers to the upper tier servers?

At this point bandwagoning has nothing to do with the issues. The issue is that there are too many servers for the current population. It is spread too thin. Speaking specifically of the wvw population not server population in general.

Because players do not want to be forced into their server choices. Nor do they want to have friends come back to the game, and never be able to play on the same server again. That punished players who take time off, and the ability to take time off and still play with your friends is part of their philosophy.

Your asking questions that were answered in many many of the previous discussions and the CDI.

Turk.5460:

gennyt.3428:

snip

At this point the problem is overwhelmingly the fault of the players. Sure Anet could have done things differently when the game was still in development. But this late in the game, when people are literally buying out other guilds and coaxing their friends to transfer. Even when Anet opened up free transfers, expecting people to transfer down to lower populations – the players chose mostly to try to pack as full into the higher tiers as they could, and still continue to complain about them being full, meaning they’re trying to get more people in the higher tier servers.

Anet has nothing to do with player bandwagoning.

You’re hung up on the “what” and not looking at the “why”. It’s always been coverage wars and the imbalance was always there, the system not only allows this “bandwagonging” but encourages it. Even then, “bandwagoning” is just a symptom and I think it’s too simplistic of a banner for the many reasons why people end up here or there. It doesn’t even begin to touch all the people who’ve simply lost interest in WvWvW or GW2 period.

I’ve been on half a dozen servers, EU and NA, mostly T1 and 2. Of the servers I’ve been on, I’ve found the most enjoyment way down in T7 and don’t plan on leaving… I think people just need to stop blobbing and spread out a bit (:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I’ve been on half a dozen servers, EU and NA, mostly T1 and 2. Of the servers I’ve been on, I’ve found the most enjoyment way down in T7 and don’t plan on leaving… I think people just need to stop blobbing and spread out a bit (:

Hear hear! I’m in T8 and everything I do feels incredibly rewarding. I’ll never understand why people are so attracted to those higher populations. Theres absolutely no difference in the player skill-level between servers, only population. The smaller fights in these lower tiers are plentiful, and I can only imagine that the community is so much more tight knit and friendlier.

Some people ENJOY hacking and most deplore hate and suffer a bad game experience when exposed to it. The response is not well let the hackers hack and if it bothers you just interact with people that do not hack. Most recognize it as a detriment to the game in the long term which will dissuade future players.

Now one can come back and argue that hacking is against game rules but nothing in game rules prevents or should prevent people from jumping server to server so as to cause those population imbalances . True but game rules ARE set by Arenanet. Just as they create skills and traits around which people design their characters they design the environment and structure for WvW.

I fail to understand why it wrong to ask for some semblance balance in WvW and be perfectly fine with asking Arenanet to properly balance skills traits and professions. They are part and parcel of the same game.

To that it can obviously be argued that Wvw was never intended to be balanced in such a manner nor should it be and again there a certain amount of truth to that but THAT said this must come with the understanding that there will be consequences which might be harmful to the game long term.

As example if one invites 10 people in from PVE so as to experience the “game experience” in WvW those people can all come away with a different impression of WvW due to that population imbalance.

If they can not get into a BL because of queues they might well lose interest.
If they get into a borderland with a few friends and face servers with numbers 10 times their own they might lose interest.
If they run around in a zerg all day and only see one or two of the enemy ever they might lose interest.

There is a reason Tarnished Coast is not matched up against Eredon Terrace. Such a matchup would not be interesting for either side due to population imbalance. Arenanet and most players recognize this and most players would not see the logic in such a matchup.

I fail to see how the issue of imbalance can simply be ignored when others post the same objections to the imbalances that currently exist in the game. They may not exist to the degree of TC to Eredon terrace but they exist and if it logical we have different tiers to prevent such mismatches because it makes for a better gaming experience then it follows that addressing other imbalance concerns will make for a better experience as well.

Pro sports realized long ago that a more competitive league tends to be a healthier league from a financial perspective. Fans want to see their team have a reasonable chance to win . It is not enough to suggest to those fans “well why not just cheer for a winning team if all you want to to is cheer for a winning team” . More competitive leagues draws more fans to the same. More fans create more revenues and more revenues allow for more teams.

Now what ARE those solutions and what can be done? This not the purpose of this post. The purpose is to outline why it an important issue to so many players that do enjoy WvW. That others might think it not material or an issue at all is certainly their prerogative but there are those that believe ending up with 6 servers stacked and 18 empty when it comes to WvW is not healthy for the game.

MY own experience is that weeks where servers closely matched are the weeks I have the most fun in WvW. Many would agree with me. Some obviously disgree. No matter ones position there ARE consequences .

I dunno a non violent, non destructive protest like making Wednesday a no play day in protest and stating it on the forums could be alright. Though looking at the SAB or riot guys maybe it’s not a great plan.

My server (WSR) has been floundering in T8 and T9 for a year and a half now, we’ve seen 3 mass exodus of people in that time. It was bearable the first time as it wasn’t the entire WvW population and when the PvE players pulled their fingers out we had numbers but over time the population has been in decline.

The reason for the last exodus was one guild had GvG all the guilds in our likely to be match ups for the next year and wanted new opponents. The other guild were getting sick of being the only ones tagging up and having to carry the server more. The third guild hasn’t left but had a period of not really raiding, more quiet time.

So now we’re in T9. Do I need to transfer to have some fun? No we can have a bit of fun in prime time. Outside of prime time there’s not much to do. The enemy has barely anyone to fight a lot of the time. People are even solo attacking enemy keeps as our enemies don’t even bother to upgrade them and don’t respond.

If I was to transfer (to silver or something) then there’s almost no doubt in my mind that I would have more fun though as there would be people to fight and fight with. To anyone from BT and FoW I really feel sorry for you guys having so small a WvW population.

The problem is that because WvW has been constantly and repeatedly been ignored, the devs have made all new content and changes without really considering the affects on WvW.

As said, server transfer prices are just way too high now, with WvW giving so little gold, it takes a long time to save up if you want to transfer.
And with most servers on high populations, WvW players have only 2 options, pay up or stay on a dead WvW server.
PvE players have dwarves springing up from the ground showering them with gold. Yet PvE players will now never ever have the need to buy so many gems to transfer to another server thanks to the megaserver.

Take the lag issue in WvW, yes it’s great Stephen is looking into it, but this issue has been in the game since launch! It’s taken 3 years for someone at anet to actually spend time at looking at something we’ve been constantly complaining about for 3 years!

I would like to point out to Coglin and dancingmonkey that if you reread the original post, it’s about the fact that Anet is making a lot of money off of this situation and should we as players support it. Both of you have taken this thread well off the original intent, which you both appear to enjoy doing regularly in these forums, which is a violation of the code of conduct. Many many WvW players are paying for these transfers, some willing, some gudgingly…
Server population is meaningless for PvP but obviously that population is the most significant determinant of server population, not WvW participation. At the very least, Anet could reduce the cost of transfers to lower tier servers, but it seems to me they should drop the cost across the board until they do something to address the fact that they are essentially exploiting WvW players for profit.

The issue will always be prevalent so long as the scoring system remains the same. It encourages coverage wars to maximize ppt. Thus, bandwagoning/stacking servers – although this is player driven, the driver behind the driver is due to the scoring mechanics.

Spoone.1268:

I would like to point out to Coglin and dancingmonkey that if you reread the original post, it’s about the fact that Anet is making a lot of money off of this situation and should we as players support it. Both of you have taken this thread well off the original intent, which you both appear to enjoy doing regularly in these forums, which is a violation of the code of conduct. Many many WvW players are paying for these transfers, some willing, some gudgingly…
Server population is meaningless for PvP but obviously that population is the most significant determinant of server population, not WvW participation. At the very least, Anet could reduce the cost of transfers to lower tier servers, but it seems to me they should drop the cost across the board until they do something to address the fact that they are essentially exploiting WvW players for profit.

Well, I gathered the point was more related to the title of the thread.

Thou I do find it interesting that folks reply to others, and you single out the specific folks you disagree with to cry fowl and claim to be off topic. I for one, was simply replying to a statement. I hardly see any of it as off topic. Feel free to report those post I guess.

As far as I am concerned, they can make transferring to the lowest tiers free. I have spoken in favor of tiered pricing for transfers before. So I do not see why you call me out. It is not my fault the OP is re making a thread instead of sticking to one of the many threads existing on this issue already. Perhaps you would see my stance in what you specified, if they had.

Turk.5460:

Burke.1378:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Tspatula.9086:

having a consistent enjoyable playable WvW experience without server ques requires a constant jumping from one server to the next

That’s not true at all. As well, what is fun for you, is not what defines fun for others. In my opinion, if you have to transfer servers regularly to have fun, your either doing it wrong, or this is not the game for you.

I don’t think you quite get it. The need to transfer to other servers is almost a requirement in order to enjoy WvW at the moment. The server I’ve been on since the beginning, Stormbluff Isle, hasn’t won a single match in ages because of a lack of WvW players while servers like Dragonbrand and Maguuma are never without full WvW zergs rushing across the map at all times.

Our server has essentially given up since the servers are always stacked against us and at one point there was a whole day of people just dueling each other as if it was a PvP arena rather than a WvW match. It’s absolutely broken. Even I’m thinking of a server transfer at this point because there is simply no balance.

If your server had given up then you would be in T8. Apparently there are still people fighting on your server to retain their place in T3. I find it hard to believe that I, in Sorrow’s Furnace, a T8 server, can always find opposition in one form or another at most times of the day/night – but someone in a T3 server cannot.

Nah, we haven’t given up. If we did, we’d be back down a tier or two like we were a few months ago. We were in serious danger of going to t6 had matters persisted. If there was a consensus, we can do that in an instant. However, coverage can be very sporadic because this is a pug run server and so we don’t have many guilds running regular raids and I’d imagine the skill:player ratio is exceptionally poor. It is what it is and personally I have felt that we ran into trouble when some engaged in what I saw as false advertising for some of the more dedicated wvw guilds that really caused problems and hurt the stability of the server overall.

Anyhow, this game mode can get pretty stagnant and RNG matchups can be annoying, but moving around for stability— can’t really complain about that if you expect everyone else to do the work for you. Sometimes it doesn’t work out, but if it doesn’t work out over many different places, perhaps the problem is within. I don’t know.

But I’m just happy listening to silly things on TS and screwing around with our random events, and sometimes coming out in fights and laughing at random pugs that die somehow when we attack empty towers. The extra 4 greens and 50s at the end of the week is not really something I’d die without— maybe before I hit 80 or something on my first character it was something. It’s true that I think we’ve been screwed over and placed too high repeatedly, gaining glicko, and sure we don’t really deserve to win anyways, but I’d rather be up here where there’s more action anyways even if it’s against us. Sometimes we’d be matched against t5 servers and end up karma training/spawn camping them just because we have coverage; that’s not really fun for any of us anyways even if you “win”.

Oh, and we’ve received some new faces as of late. And some old ones too.

Turk.5460:

Burke.1378:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Tspatula.9086:

having a consistent enjoyable playable WvW experience without server ques requires a constant jumping from one server to the next

That’s not true at all. As well, what is fun for you, is not what defines fun for others. In my opinion, if you have to transfer servers regularly to have fun, your either doing it wrong, or this is not the game for you.

I don’t think you quite get it. The need to transfer to other servers is almost a requirement in order to enjoy WvW at the moment. The server I’ve been on since the beginning, Stormbluff Isle, hasn’t won a single match in ages because of a lack of WvW players while servers like Dragonbrand and Maguuma are never without full WvW zergs rushing across the map at all times.

Our server has essentially given up since the servers are always stacked against us and at one point there was a whole day of people just dueling each other as if it was a PvP arena rather than a WvW match. It’s absolutely broken. Even I’m thinking of a server transfer at this point because there is simply no balance.

If your server had given up then you would be in T8. Apparently there are still people fighting on your server to retain their place in T3. I find it hard to believe that I, in Sorrow’s Furnace, a T8 server, can always find opposition in one form or another at most times of the day/night – but someone in a T3 server cannot.

Agreed. I am on Kaineng, a t7 server, and the wvw has been pretty good lately. There is usually something going on out in one of the maps. Certainly not the blob fights of t1, or t2, or t3 servers, but there seems to consistently be action(small groups, usually) going on somewhere in wvw. And we have no ques at all, at anytime.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Kanebrake.6192:

Turk.5460:

gennyt.3428:

snip

At this point the problem is overwhelmingly the fault of the players. Sure Anet could have done things differently when the game was still in development. But this late in the game, when people are literally buying out other guilds and coaxing their friends to transfer. Even when Anet opened up free transfers, expecting people to transfer down to lower populations – the players chose mostly to try to pack as full into the higher tiers as they could, and still continue to complain about them being full, meaning they’re trying to get more people in the higher tier servers.

Anet has nothing to do with player bandwagoning.

Why do you say “Even when Anet opened up free transfers, expecting people to transfer down to lower populations”? Did they ever say that was their expectation? If that’s what they expected or intended to happen why didn’t they simply close the transfers to the upper tier servers?

At this point bandwagoning has nothing to do with the issues. The issue is that there are too many servers for the current population. It is spread too thin. Speaking specifically of the wvw population not server population in general.

Because players do not want to be forced into their server choices. Nor do they want to have friends come back to the game, and never be able to play on the same server again. That punished players who take time off, and the ability to take time off and still play with your friends is part of their philosophy.

Your asking questions that were answered in many many of the previous discussions and the CDI.

That’s not punishing players. It’s balancing the population so that the game gets balanced. I could careless if a cdi answered these questions because if that’s the answers then the answers are terrible.

I do not know what kind of relationships you have in your community, but It absolutely would punish players who have guild alliances, friends, and a relationship with the community.

How would you feel if you wee arbitrarily picked by someone to be forced to a different server for the sake of balance? I suspect you wouldn’t care for it much if it was happening to you.