Guild Wars 2

Instead of all these debuff talks etc which wont work imo, why not just take out the 5 man AOE limit. This will make “zerging” a thing of the past.

Skill Lag.

CrazyDuck.4610:

Instead of all these debuff talks etc which wont work imo, why not just take out the 5 man AOE limit. This will make “zerging” a thing of the past.

I think an interesting idea, built upon the supply trap idea, are LAND MINE traps. You place it and if a group runs over it everyone in an X amount radius dies instantly or takes substantial damage, or takes some damage and is severely crippled….something like that. If it’s too OP then make it take more supply to build…. that way a tactical guerilla style group can wipe out a large number of a bigger group so long as they planned ahead and placed the mines tactically..

CrazyDuck.4610:

Instead of all these debuff talks etc which wont work imo, why not just take out the 5 man AOE limit. This will make “zerging” a thing of the past.

This has been suggested roughly 1249 times. It cannot be done. Skill lag is already insane in larger fights, caused because the server has to do to many calculations. Removing the AoE cap would cause the server to melt. Possibly litteraly.

Gamadorn.2659:

I think an interesting idea, built upon the supply trap idea, are LAND MINE traps.

Thieves would love a tool to hop in the middle of an enemy zerg, you know cause of Stealth and then just instantly kill a bunch of people without even revealing themselves.

This also helps the winning server, because they have access to a larger stack of supply to burn on such traps.
And lets not forget the overall fun and joy of being instantly killed, seemingly at random. Yah as fantastic as that sounds, i’d rather deal with the zerging.

CrazyDuck.4610:

Instead of all these debuff talks etc which wont work imo, why not just take out the 5 man AOE limit. This will make “zerging” a thing of the past.

Anets servers can’t take it.

Why this stupid idea comes back all the time?

Zerg will also have the no 5 men limit.
So every one of the zerg will have:
- all the boons to max. (enough people casting them .. on everyone)
- has more healing .. more people healing > few people healing
- has more dps (more circles and other AOE damage hitting people)

Please stop posting the same stupid things.

Still best way to stop zerging is to only reward a few for objectives, not the whole zerg.
Example tower(and guards/door) is max 15 people get rewards. Keeps max 30. Camps max 10. Killing a person is 1 random player that did damage to him/her, except when someone did more then 50% damage to the person.
Being in a +80 man zerg will mean you only get rewards about once every hour or less from objectives. Fights just AOE tagging stuff will don’t give you as much rewards as it used to be.

-

a simpler way is to use scaling. when 20 person zerg tries to take a supply camp,the vet npcs becomes champions that summon elite minions and the npc boss becomes legendary. Loot should remain the same,that way people won’t zerg since its easier to capture the point with less ppl so that the npc won;t scale up.

Bad idea.

You want zerging to stop? Don’t do it and convince your server mates to do the same. If they don’t agree, they’ll continue to do what they want – which is apparently to zerg.

Dutchares.6084:

Still best way to stop zerging is to only reward a few for objectives, not the whole zerg.
Example tower(and guards/door) is max 15 people get rewards. Keeps max 30. Camps max 10. Killing a person is 1 random player that did damage to him/her, except when someone did more then 50% damage to the person.
Being in a +80 man zerg will mean you only get rewards about once every hour or less from objectives. Fights just AOE tagging stuff will don’t give you as much rewards as it used to be.

That is not even close to a good idea.. It just kills WvW instantly. Every supporting character gets no reward at all and egoism gets an even more central role (see dolyaks atm). There has to be some incentive for playing supportive!

As i already meantioned in the develop thread: A possible solution is to force ppl to be in objectives.. Some static+a procentual amount of players have to be within a near radius of the keep/tower to get points for it in the tick. (i.e. 5 ppl + 10% of actual WvW people; I think taking tick-points off the supply camps is also needed. They have their reward through supporting the team, not by points) this way every 5 minutes ppl have to spread to get their points! I think it is also a possible solution to those high/low pop matchups, as more ppl of high servers are bound.
There should be also some kind of defensive reward… some little events like cheer the workers or something…

How about this, the devs have stated over and over again that they do not want to discourage zerging.

People like to zerg, and I understand that you do not like to zerg. There is room in WvW for both play styles.

I noticed no one is posting on the forums about how to get rid of havok groups and roaming groups.

How about we just let people play the way they want to play.

Simple fix: put a marker on the map that will follow the movement of any group over xx size.(similar to crossed swords). Now large groups are easy to avoid, easy to track, and easier to counter.

little ceasar.9254:

Simple fix: put a marker on the map that will follow the movement of any group over xx size.(similar to crossed swords). Now large groups are easy to avoid, easy to track, and easier to counter.

lets put a marker on the map for small groups, so they can be attacked, and squished.

Seriously, if you get killed by the zerg, you get killed.

Plenty of times there is a group of 3 to 5 that will kill one person who is running by. Should we put a marker on the map and show them so people could avoid them?

Dutchares.6084:

Why this stupid idea comes back all the time?

Zerg will also have the no 5 men limit.
So every one of the zerg will have:
- all the boons to max. (enough people casting them .. on everyone)
- has more healing .. more people healing > few people healing
- has more dps (more circles and other AOE damage hitting people)

Please stop posting the same stupid things.

Still best way to stop zerging is to only reward a few for objectives, not the whole zerg.
Example tower(and guards/door) is max 15 people get rewards. Keeps max 30. Camps max 10. Killing a person is 1 random player that did damage to him/her, except when someone did more then 50% damage to the person.
Being in a +80 man zerg will mean you only get rewards about once every hour or less from objectives. Fights just AOE tagging stuff will don’t give you as much rewards as it used to be.

-

Implicit in all these arguments for lifting the aoe cap is that the people making it are vastly more skilled than the people in the larger group they are fighting. So naturally, their small group should easily defeat a much larger one, and if that isn’t the consistent outcome then the game must be changed.

Andrew Clear.1750:

little ceasar.9254:

Simple fix: put a marker on the map that will follow the movement of any group over xx size.(similar to crossed swords). Now large groups are easy to avoid, easy to track, and easier to counter.

lets put a marker on the map for small groups, so they can be attacked, and squished.

Seriously, if you get killed by the zerg, you get killed.

Plenty of times there is a group of 3 to 5 that will kill one person who is running by. Should we put a marker on the map and show them so people could avoid them?

I can sympathize where you coming from with play how you want and don’t punish people for it. However, in many situations the population imbalance is literally killing the wvw populations for many lower servers. My solution doesn’t offer a debuff or anything that hinders people in any way. What it does do is offer a chance for servers that can’t field 60 people to just roam another tool to compete competitively, and a risk to commanders trying to use brute force.

little ceasar.9254:

Andrew Clear.1750:

little ceasar.9254:

Simple fix: put a marker on the map that will follow the movement of any group over xx size.(similar to crossed swords). Now large groups are easy to avoid, easy to track, and easier to counter.

lets put a marker on the map for small groups, so they can be attacked, and squished.

Seriously, if you get killed by the zerg, you get killed.

Plenty of times there is a group of 3 to 5 that will kill one person who is running by. Should we put a marker on the map and show them so people could avoid them?

I can sympathize where you coming from with play how you want and don’t punish people for it. However, in many situations the population imbalance is literally killing the wvw populations for many lower servers. My solution doesn’t offer a debuff or anything that hinders people in any way. What it does do is offer a chance for servers that can’t field 60 people to just roam another tool to compete competitively, and a risk to commanders trying to use brute force.

I can relate to lower pop servers. I still remember SBI’s free fall from the top, to rank 15. Getting stomped every week by Mag or SoS for a few months, and being able to compete with CD for 2nd, til they started to spank us as well. But, what you are asking for will take effect on every server, and thus would negatively effect higher pop servers.

Dutchares.6084:

Why this stupid idea comes back all the time?

Zerg will also have the no 5 men limit.
So every one of the zerg will have:
- all the boons to max. (enough people casting them .. on everyone)
- has more healing .. more people healing > few people healing
- has more dps (more circles and other AOE damage hitting people)

Please stop posting the same stupid things.

Still best way to stop zerging is to only reward a few for objectives, not the whole zerg.
Example tower(and guards/door) is max 15 people get rewards. Keeps max 30. Camps max 10. Killing a person is 1 random player that did damage to him/her, except when someone did more then 50% damage to the person.
Being in a +80 man zerg will mean you only get rewards about once every hour or less from objectives. Fights just AOE tagging stuff will don’t give you as much rewards as it used to be.

-

Why would it be a bad idea, rigth now the game it rewards you for being stupid, u see a boat load of red in the ground but its ok u wont take much dmg becouse there is like 30 people rigth next to u. Instead of every1 getting wrecked becouse they stupid.

This is the 1st game that i see that doesnt punish you for being bad.

Anyway they will never change it becouse is something with the server and balblalba.

Changing the aoe cap wont change zergs, obviously its like you said the thing is changing the rewards but the aoe thingy will change how the zerg acts.

I never quite understood what people expect INSTEAD of zerging.

I mean everyone always expresses their disdain for it, but what else are 150 players on such a tiny map supposed to get up to? Roleplaying?

That said, yes removing the AoE cap would be nice. But the cap exists for a reason….because ANets netcode is easily overwhelmed by having to calculate damage against many targets at once.

That said, I honestly think Zerg vs. Zerg battles are the best thing about GW2 WvW. Everything else is rather generic and forgettable.

When I move on to a different MMO it’s those zerg clashes that will make the most lasting memories.

Dee Jay.2460:

I never quite understood what people expect INSTEAD of zerging.

I mean everyone always expresses their disdain for it, but what else are 150 players on such a tiny map supposed to get up to? Roleplaying?

That said, yes removing the AoE cap would be nice. But the cap exists for a reason….because ANets netcode is easily overwhelmed by having to calculate damage against many targets at once.

That said, I honestly think Zerg vs. Zerg battles are the best thing about GW2 WvW. Everything else is rather generic and forgettable.

When I move on to a different MMO it’s those zerg clashes that will make the most lasting memories.

Very good point.

I think simply removing the AoE cap, making the AoE ignore defense, and then making the damage fixed would completely eliminate any skill lag. Have say between 2000-2500 power, your barrage does 1500 damage per pulse. If your power is between 2500-3000, you do 2000 damage per pulse. Always the same number, and it basically ignores defense..

Done, no more skill calculations..

You bring up a very good point though.. forget 150 players.. what are 300 players expected to do on a small map? Now if the maps were say 10x bigger than they are now, well now we have a reason to split up a zerg.

little ceasar.9254:

Simple fix: put a marker on the map that will follow the movement of any group over xx size.(similar to crossed swords). Now large groups are easy to avoid, easy to track, and easier to counter.

+1 from me

Sigh. The 3000th post on this. You don’t like zergs. So don’t zerg. Other people like to zerg, let them zerg. People do what they enjoy and what is fun for them.

This reminds me of all the people who want more defense in the game. I can just imagine ANET thinking…. ok, how can we take away what people enjoy and instead get them to just sit in a keep and wait for someone to attack

I’d prefer a captured Keep/Tower have 10x the number of NPC defenders.

No skill lag for them, no 1-6 member teams capturing a fortified defensive position.

Andrew Clear.1750:

little ceasar.9254:

Simple fix: put a marker on the map that will follow the movement of any group over xx size.(similar to crossed swords). Now large groups are easy to avoid, easy to track, and easier to counter.

lets put a marker on the map for small groups, so they can be attacked, and squished.

Seriously, if you get killed by the zerg, you get killed.

Plenty of times there is a group of 3 to 5 that will kill one person who is running by. Should we put a marker on the map and show them so people could avoid them?

SERIOUSLY? and you can just tell the people that only run with the blob (because of the vast skill needed to do that!)

A soloer has a chance of avoiding/defeating a small group but against a blob? maybe, if only a couple leave the blob to chase said soloer- but that doesn’t happen and it takes LOTS of people to chase and kill that ONE person.
WHY? Because that solo player is stupid enough to play solo? or because that solo player has skill and it takes LOTS of people to kill them?

Behind every ‘toon’ is a player and its sad to think that this is the state of the game at the moment. People can blame rewards etc etc but at the end of the day its the player that makes the decisions, and if their decision is to blame the game for its battle/reward(etc) system, – then surely the blame lays in their own hands as a player?

In order for the zerg to be less effective you have to cripple it. Hard.

Disable Waypoints
Reduces zerg mobility severely. I understand that casuals will be very annoyed for having to walk across the map so that won’t happen.

Zerg Mines
A mine that only activates when X players are within the radius. Immobilize + damage, cannot be cleansed.

Ballista’s that don’t suck
This siege weapon should be the zerg killer weapon of choice, unfortunately it ends up being a siege sniper. The Ballista shot should be much faster, travel much farther and have a much wider hit box. It should also be a mobile siege weapon. Carefully placed, these siege weapons should completely destroy a zerg passing through bottlenecks.

Revive
Only 1 player can revive another player and ANY damage interrupts this action. A downed player and a defeated player can be revived, but a stomped player gets automatically sent back to the starter waypoint.

These are simple rules, but remember who this game is for. Casuals. If there’s one thing a casual player hates the most is inconvenience.

Dutchares.6084:

Why this stupid idea comes back all the time?

Zerg will also have the no 5 men limit.
So every one of the zerg will have:
- all the boons to max. (enough people casting them .. on everyone)
- has more healing .. more people healing > few people healing
- has more dps (more circles and other AOE damage hitting people)

Please stop posting the same stupid things.

Still best way to stop zerging is to only reward a few for objectives, not the whole zerg.
Example tower(and guards/door) is max 15 people get rewards. Keeps max 30. Camps max 10. Killing a person is 1 random player that did damage to him/her, except when someone did more then 50% damage to the person.
Being in a +80 man zerg will mean you only get rewards about once every hour or less from objectives. Fights just AOE tagging stuff will don’t give you as much rewards as it used to be.

-

Why do you automatically include boon distributing and healing system ? Boon distributing/healing to allies can stay same(5p limit) but offensive skills can hit all people in the area. Other games have limits on friendly support as well while there’s no limit on aoe skill targets. This would discourage blobbing and zerging in order to avoid aoe attacks. You can’t see such blobbing and zerging in other mmorpgs, because of the fear of aoe attacks. Also, blobbers are lagging servers more than aoes do.

Unfortunately, ArenaNet seems to be very much in favor for the idea of the zerg, and I doubt we’ll ever see them doing anything to motivate players to spread out more. I could be wrong.

They are seemingly consistently giving us more reasons to zerg and has pretty much always advertised WvW as large-scale epic battles, a statement which the zerg fits in under quite comfortably. The zerg’s effective too, can’t argue with that. Bring 60 vs 30 and win, if not on the field, then through hiding inside a structure with your existing siege, superior numbers and rapid additional siege building from all that Supply you’re carrying. That’s how it usually plays out anyways, and I’m sure there’s plenty of organized guilds who has had this experience;

In the field, a lot of the zergs gets ripped to pieces like paper, but it’s when they hold up inside their structures and hide, that it becomes a problem, as ArenaNet has done so much buffing to siege that it can become a royal pain to even attempt breaking in under the fire of 6 Arrow Carts, with 60 defenders having the high ground. In the field, if they can’t beat you, they bring even more in as well, until they finally beat you and think they’ve done something great, spouting their /laugh and what not. “Yes, zerger, good job, give yourself a pat on the back for defeating 30 with 80.”

The zerg is here to stay, and I doubt there will ever be something to change this. Now that they are doing these WvW seasonal championships, there’s even less a reason to not zerg, night cap, etc.

Strength in numbers, even if it means individually you’re terrible.

Simple fix: put a marker on the map that will follow the movement of any group over xx size.(similar to crossed swords). Now large groups are easy to avoid, easy to track, and easier to counter.

I can relate to lower pop servers. I still remember SBI’s free fall from the top, to rank 15. Getting stomped every week by Mag or SoS for a few months, and being able to compete with CD for 2nd, til they started to spank us as well. But, what you are asking for will take effect on every server, and thus would negatively effect higher pop servers.

Good point. Maybe if it was tied into the outmanned buff, that would very rarely affect the top tier servers while providing an extra tool for the underdog.

my opinion, permanent CC have to stop, if there was something like cc immunity for 10s, this will give 5man more advantage than over 30man zerg

problem with zerg fight is, 1st stun will just stomp the other due to permanent stun till dead.

ITT: A bunch of hardcore Gank Squ….Havocers who don’t understand that the point of a large scale PvP system is to have large scale PvP fights.

Like playing Battlefield 4 64-player conquest and whining it should 8v8 like Call of Duty

Or Planetside 2 and complaining that all gunfights should be 1v1.

Simple fix: Divide WvW rewards by the number of people involved in getting them.

That will sort out zergs for everything except open field battles.

While I do support the AOE cap being lifted due to the way Anet does calculations it is simply not possible at this time. However they could lift the AOE cap on a few selected utility skills to help alleviate the issue. Say Wells, Arrow Carts, Meteor Storm and a couple of others so as not to cause to many problems but completely lifting the cap at this time would be im-practical.

The Best solution to zergs I think Would be to restrict rallies in someway so only 1 person can rally off a kill (The last person to hit player) or you can only rally once per minute, introduce defensive siege (Anti Golem EMP, Siege-razor shield, a Mobile Balista). Doing this would not stop zergs but it would place a far greater emphasis on skill and survival rather then just Blobing since the lack of rallies means no more God Mode, the defensive siege means no more 30 second doors (most of the time) and it would make a defense possible again.

little ceasar.9254:

Simple fix: put a marker on the map that will follow the movement of any group over xx size.(similar to crossed swords). Now large groups are easy to avoid, easy to track, and easier to counter.

It has been suggested that groups over x size get marked with a skull, for both enemies and allies. Brilliant suggestion if you ask me.

Terrahero.9358:

CrazyDuck.4610:

Instead of all these debuff talks etc which wont work imo, why not just take out the 5 man AOE limit. This will make “zerging” a thing of the past.

This has been suggested roughly 1249 times. It cannot be done. Skill lag is already insane in larger fights, caused because the server has to do to many calculations. Removing the AoE cap would cause the server to melt. Possibly litteraly.

Gamadorn.2659:

I think an interesting idea, built upon the supply trap idea, are LAND MINE traps.

Thieves would love a tool to hop in the middle of an enemy zerg, you know cause of Stealth and then just instantly kill a bunch of people without even revealing themselves.

This also helps the winning server, because they have access to a larger stack of supply to burn on such traps.
And lets not forget the overall fun and joy of being instantly killed, seemingly at random. Yah as fantastic as that sounds, i’d rather deal with the zerging.

First of all, it would have to placed similar to how supply traps are placed now, which means you have to channel without being interrupted…you’d never be able to do that in a zerg even with stealth lol, so it would need to be placed ahead of time.

I also don’t think it helps the larger server at all, who cares if they do, again it takes time to place, that’s like saying supply traps help the zerg and the winning server because they have more supply and more traps which isn’t the case at all.

I don’t mind zerging, but there needs to be a balanced counter against massive groups. A way to tactically hit them, if it was planned ahead of time.

Sirendor.1394:

little ceasar.9254:

Simple fix: put a marker on the map that will follow the movement of any group over xx size.(similar to crossed swords). Now large groups are easy to avoid, easy to track, and easier to counter.

It has been suggested that groups over x size get marked with a skull, for both enemies and allies. Brilliant suggestion if you ask me.

This is one of the best ideas. Also it’s logical for reality, because big groups are always easily detectable in a battlefield so armies avoid advancing in large groups.

I shall keep hitting on map design, and WvW mechanics limit players just to blob themselves.

KcB.6890:

ITT: A bunch of hardcore Gank Squ….Havocers who don’t understand that the point of a large scale PvP system is to have large scale PvP fights.

Like playing Battlefield 4 64-player conquest and whining it should 8v8 like Call of Duty

Or Planetside 2 and complaining that all gunfights should be 1v1.

wrong, no one says large scale battles are bad, I even like them, what people are saying is it should not be a giant blob fighting another giant blob. By blob I mean stand right on top of each other. Other games have large battles but due to ape you need to spread out. That’s what people are talking about. I don’t care how many people are fighting just that the don’t stand right kittening on top of each other.

Skill lag. Even if they could remove it, they would have to completely rebalance AoE. AoE is already too heavily built around in this game. Imagine if one player could spike a million plus DPS… nobody would roll with a class that didn’t AoE as a prime source of damage.

Straegen.2938:

Skill lag. Even if they could remove it, they would have to completely rebalance AoE. AoE is already too heavily built around in this game. Imagine if one player could spike a million plus DPS… nobody would roll with a class that didn’t AoE as a prime source of damage.

well what I said doesn’t matter right now anyways, the hardware of the game can’t handle it. That’s why other ways have been suggested to spread people out. The best way would be maps. I know there is an issue with map size but I would hope that was an easier fix then buying hardware.

They could just do this if their servers can’t take it:

• Add 4 more maps (we already have the edge of the mists coming and obsidian sanctum for guild vs guild).
• Limit population per map to ~50

This would:

• Limit skill lagg to a base minimum
• Allow smooth combat
• Still gives room for those who like bigger groups (50 is still a horribly big zerg)
• Gives small groups more viability cause less lagg