Guild Wars 2

Sure, data before panic. We don’t have any reasons to fear the Anet WvW balancing team, right? Right? RIGHT? Look what great job they did with the ACs.

Pavel.8531:

Sure, data before panic. We don’t have any reasons to fear the Anet WvW balancing team, right? Right? RIGHT? Look what great job they did with the ACs.

I have been. Been playing extensively with ACs since. We’ve adjusted tactics to account for stronger ACs. Apparently not everyone has figured that out yet though unfortunately.

VOLKON.1290:

Pavel.8531:

Sure, data before panic. We don’t have any reasons to fear the Anet WvW balancing team, right? Right? RIGHT? Look what great job they did with the ACs.

I have been. Been playing extensively with ACs since. We’ve adjusted tactics to account for stronger ACs. Apparently not everyone has figured that out yet though unfortunately.

Player tactics have been easy to change. What’s sucked is the fact that they murder siege so fast. After getting used to the damage increase against players, I don’t mind it.

Hickeroar.9734:

VOLKON.1290:

Pavel.8531:

Sure, data before panic. We don’t have any reasons to fear the Anet WvW balancing team, right? Right? RIGHT? Look what great job they did with the ACs.

I have been. Been playing extensively with ACs since. We’ve adjusted tactics to account for stronger ACs. Apparently not everyone has figured that out yet though unfortunately.

Player tactics have been easy to change. What’s sucked is the fact that they murder siege so fast. After getting used to the damage increase against players, I don’t mind it.

… Which is why I’ve been seeing a lot more flash built trebs taking out the ACs before the rams get placed.

VOLKON.1290:

Hickeroar.9734:

VOLKON.1290:

Pavel.8531:

Sure, data before panic. We don’t have any reasons to fear the Anet WvW balancing team, right? Right? RIGHT? Look what great job they did with the ACs.

I have been. Been playing extensively with ACs since. We’ve adjusted tactics to account for stronger ACs. Apparently not everyone has figured that out yet though unfortunately.

Player tactics have been easy to change. What’s sucked is the fact that they murder siege so fast. After getting used to the damage increase against players, I don’t mind it.

… Which is why I’ve been seeing a lot more flash built trebs taking out the ACs before the rams get placed.

Lol, Who bothers with rams anymore. You destroy their AC’s with a treb they just flash build more lol. I am not sure what server you are on VOLKON but it fails horribly if you are losing keeps to rams. I have been on while we held keeps for hours with nothing more than AC’s. If they built a treb we built a counter and destroyed it, then held the keep with AC’s until the other server has nothing but PvD during our off hours. If an AC goes down you build another until you are AC siege capped. They cant do anything but treb, catas and rams are useless.

You need to give it up man no one likes the AC’s but you. They make the game soooo boring.

VOLKON.1290:

Jski.6180:

Entropy.4732:

King Amadaeus.8619:

AC Wars 2 continues, expansion Trap Wars incoming….

Seriously. I’m a tad nervous about traps.

Its going to be a great way to stop all supplies to a keep or tower and “starve” them out. Its been a bit too easy to flash build during an attk even if the keep or tower was out of supplies you would just have ppl come in from other maps they have with 10+ supplies to save the day. Also must we add Something Wars 2 every time we find that its being used? Should just call it dodges wars 2 becuse every one dodges and can!

That’s a little presumptuous, no? We have no idea the strength of traps, the cost of traps (you buy at a vendor, remember?), the diameter of area covered, how long they last, nothing at all. They could affect a single target for all we know and be costly enough to not be worth is excepting unique circumstances. Data before panic please.

If they destroy supplies that ppl have it should help starve defenders its kind of needed too. Once you get a sizable forces willing to run supplies it becomes out right imposable to take down walls and doors.

VOLKON.1290:

Hickeroar.9734:

VOLKON.1290:

Pavel.8531:

Sure, data before panic. We don’t have any reasons to fear the Anet WvW balancing team, right? Right? RIGHT? Look what great job they did with the ACs.

I have been. Been playing extensively with ACs since. We’ve adjusted tactics to account for stronger ACs. Apparently not everyone has figured that out yet though unfortunately.

Player tactics have been easy to change. What’s sucked is the fact that they murder siege so fast. After getting used to the damage increase against players, I don’t mind it.

… Which is why I’ve been seeing a lot more flash built trebs taking out the ACs before the rams get placed.

The only reason they need to take out ACs before putting rams on a gate is b/c the ACs are anti-siege kings due to Anet’s fumble on the April patch. They’re patching on the 14th and the incoming fix to ACs will make your points invalid. Once they make ACs unable to damage (or severely reduce damage to) the siege, your “strategy” of tedium anti-anti-siege flash trebs will return to the level it was prior to the AC damage buff.

Also, once you can effectively siege a keep without being shut down by a few 30-supply, indirect, overpowered, spasm cannons people will stop complaining. The angst is correctly directed at OP ACs. Devs have stated it whether you like it or not. They made a mistake, now let them fix it.

The question is, are golems siege or players.

If ACs cant melt golems like before certain gates are going to get VERY interesting.

Is everyone blind here? Doesn’t the release page clearly says the 14TH OF MAY and it’s now the 13TH OF MAY. There was no patch what so ever yesterday to activate the bonfire, it came with the 30th of April patch.

Rawr.5930:

The question is, are golems siege or players.

If ACs cant melt golems like before certain gates are going to get VERY interesting.

I think they are both you can condition dmg them but you cant stun / knock them back and i think they take added dmg from siege that dose more dmg to siege such as bilsat. They can move and that make them a step above more other sieges such as rams and even to a point cata.

Riselight.3695:

Is everyone blind here? Doesn’t the release page clearly says the 14TH OF MAY and it’s now the 13TH OF MAY. There was no patch what so ever yesterday to activate the bonfire, it came with the 30th of April patch.

New content on the 14 why would you see it on the 13 or the 12 when its going to be the 14 that they are putting it out?
Sry if i am miss reading it but what your saying is very confusing.

Entropy.4732:

By the way, did any players actually buy that weird little guild flag sticking out of your rear they advertised last patch? Haven’t seen a single person rocking those.

Nope, but I did get the quiver instead. The fact that they featured the guild banners as a key feature on the update page is indicative of how little there is in the way of actual content for WvW.

I don’t see why anyone wants to change arrowcarts.

I’m actually enjoying having to THINK again. Now we have to do sneaky things like distract in one area and speedbuild in another to counter defensive arrow carts. And zergballing doors almost never works anymore — even one guy on an arrow cart is a threat now.

Arrow cart nerfs will just be a return to zergballing. “We hate zergballs, fix it, ANet! Wait! Now we can’t zergball! We want zergballs back!”

ANet just needs to pick a side to support. Are they pro-zergball or pro-strategy?

Can’t be both.

My gut feeling tells me that Anet’s “fix” for arrow carts isn’t really going to fix anything…..
Heck, knowing Anet, it might get worse. Don’t get your hopes up people.

Slamz.5376:

I don’t see why anyone wants to change arrowcarts.

I’m actually enjoying having to THINK again. Now we have to do sneaky things like distract in one area and speedbuild in another to counter defensive arrow carts. And zergballing doors almost never works anymore — even one guy on an arrow cart is a threat now.

Arrow cart nerfs will just be a return to zergballing. “We hate zergballs, fix it, ANet! Wait! Now we can’t zergball! We want zergballs back!”

ANet just needs to pick a side to support. Are they pro-zergball or pro-strategy?

Can’t be both.

Finally, someone gets it.

Slamz.5376:

I don’t see why anyone wants to change arrowcarts.

I’m actually enjoying having to THINK again. Now we have to do sneaky things like distract in one area and speedbuild in another to counter defensive arrow carts. And zergballing doors almost never works anymore — even one guy on an arrow cart is a threat now.

Arrow cart nerfs will just be a return to zergballing. “We hate zergballs, fix it, ANet! Wait! Now we can’t zergball! We want zergballs back!”

ANet just needs to pick a side to support. Are they pro-zergball or pro-strategy?

Can’t be both.

It’s nice to have force multipliers, and smart use of them is GOOD play, BUT the problem is that the strength of ACs now have forced zergs into treb vs AC dance offs, which is tends to be boring.

The issue isnt with the ACs being mindless, but more one of greatly diminishing the importance of player skill in favor of a PURCHASABLE consumable.

Sure a couple of guys are having fun seeing the numbers pop up on their screens, but what about the 30 other guys twiddling their thumbs or running supply?

Not much fun for those.

In the end wvw is a game, and if it isnt fun people stop playing.

You want players fighting players, not players dancing around siege and trying to simulate chessmaster 9k.

Slamz.5376:

I don’t see why anyone wants to change arrowcarts.

I’m actually enjoying having to THINK again. Now we have to do sneaky things like distract in one area and speedbuild in another to counter defensive arrow carts. And zergballing doors almost never works anymore — even one guy on an arrow cart is a threat now.

Arrow cart nerfs will just be a return to zergballing. “We hate zergballs, fix it, ANet! Wait! Now we can’t zergball! We want zergballs back!”

ANet just needs to pick a side to support. Are they pro-zergball or pro-strategy?

Can’t be both.

Agreed, I have no problem with arrow carts damage to players, since any group with half a brain can heal up whoever is using the rams/ rotate players, etc.

But unreachable ACs making catas/rams melt really isn’t right IMO, and I hope that’s what they change.

DevonCarver.5370:

WvW Match resets are not the same thing as new builds. We’ll have some updates to arrow carts to share with you when the next build comes through.

By update, I hope you mean you’re adding an “immobilize” condition to AC damage. The damage alone is OK, but people can easily dodge them. “Real” Arrow Carts would stick you in place and kill you with a couple shots.

So to sum it up – Increase AC damage, have targets become immobilized, and maybe lower rate of fire for balance purposes.

Luiz Swordbreaker.6547:

Slamz.5376:

I don’t see why anyone wants to change arrowcarts.

I’m actually enjoying having to THINK again. Now we have to do sneaky things like distract in one area and speedbuild in another to counter defensive arrow carts. And zergballing doors almost never works anymore — even one guy on an arrow cart is a threat now.

Arrow cart nerfs will just be a return to zergballing. “We hate zergballs, fix it, ANet! Wait! Now we can’t zergball! We want zergballs back!”

ANet just needs to pick a side to support. Are they pro-zergball or pro-strategy?

Can’t be both.

Agreed, I have no problem with arrow carts damage to players, since any group with half a brain can heal up whoever is using the rams/ rotate players, etc.

But unreachable ACs making catas/rams melt really isn’t right IMO, and I hope that’s what they change.

Pretty sure they are changing that. Devon made reference to it in a post in another thread. Its also an issue with wiping other sieges too quickly as well. I like the idea with rams to be able to micro manage and work with a team to drop healing fields and to force the tankier players to man the rams, but when this happens the ram gets destroyed too quickly if there are a fair few AC there.

Just fix arrow cars so they obey simple physics laws like: not being able to shoot through stone walls, doors, roofs. Then get rid of the ground target reticle to eliminate the advantage to zoom hackers or 3 monitor users or whatever they really are. Make ACs fire like every other siege with direction and intensity.

I like the arrow cart change. Only change which I am sure has already been mentioned is damage against seige.

Slamz.5376:

I don’t see why anyone wants to change arrowcarts.

I’m actually enjoying having to THINK again. Now we have to do sneaky things like distract in one area and speedbuild in another to counter defensive arrow carts. And zergballing doors almost never works anymore — even one guy on an arrow cart is a threat now.

Arrow cart nerfs will just be a return to zergballing. “We hate zergballs, fix it, ANet! Wait! Now we can’t zergball! We want zergballs back!”

ANet just needs to pick a side to support. Are they pro-zergball or pro-strategy?

Can’t be both.

Zergs still happen. Arrow carts actually promote the use of zergs and has nothing to do with strategy as opposed to placing/building siege quickly and properly especially when you have to place a lot more siege down. If the opponent has a couple of sentries with arrow carts/traits, a smaller offense group is out of luck. They will most likely have to retreat despite going against 1 to 2 people. If not, the few defenders should be able to hold the attackers off till a reinforcements arrive. Either way, zerging is pretty much the solution with a heavier emphasis on siege. More people = more supply = more siege = more effective.

I’m pretty sure sneaky things have been done way before the arrow cart buff but it may be different on your tier (I sincerely doubt this.) Previous posters have mentioned that increased objectives that actually matter would help limit zerg sizes. This is the route that Anet should be proceeding towards in my opinion. Well, I don’t really think adding the orb back in it’s original state would be a good idea but you should get the gist – constant multiple objectives means attention needs to be directed in different directions. If the objectives are important, people can still zerg and focus on a single objective but end up losing overall due to the singular focus. (insert GW1’s alliance battles) This isn’t the current situation, especially with the arrow cart buff.

Personally, I haven’t seen a huge diversity in tactics and rather meta knowledge being thrown about such as placement of siege, orange swords, etc. Not exactly thrilling and groundbreaking. What’s worse is arrow carts are popping up in open field combat and is generally a low risk/high reward choice. Really tactical right?

rams might melt to ac’s but if your cata melts to acs then its because you dont use them right.
given that the ac range with buff is 3500 and a cata is 5000+

so if they can take down your cata with a ac in safty of walls your cata is to close

Aneu.1748:

The fact remains that siege is now defending a keep and not players! Previously it took co-ordinated defenders who knew what to do in order for a keep to not flip, it required both siege and players to fight off the attackers, now I could quite easily stick a dribbling idiot on an Arrowcart and it can turn most forces away and if one isnt enough I can build 12 on a single gate due to the increase in range also increasing the amount of AC’s that can hit a single gate! To anyone with a modicum of balance and sense this is obviously not following what the original concept of WvW was meant to be and it isnt one I or many others wish to be part of – Let us actually fight each other rather than blueball all the time.

Previously the only way to really defend the keep/tower was to either A) have a large enough group with the skill to roll up the zerg ball, or have a small group but enough smarts/time to setup a killing zone that will wipe the zerg ball as the run in the breach.

While option A is preferable often you cant have the coverage (outside T1)to intercept a mobile zerg before they breach and overwhelm what defenders are inside. The only major difference between option B and now is the small group can force the zerg off the doors with the AC’s instead of bumrushing the door/wall at point blank range. The attackers have to setup siege to take out the defending siege instead of facerubing the door. Guess what if your group of corordinated defenders does not show up the keep will still fall as the attackers pelt it from longer range. You can still go out and have your fight of skill vs zerg. Well unless your idea of skill was leap off the walls with heavy protection CD’s, AOE the daylights out of the zerg, and then dive back into the portal before they kill you.

I really don’t get why these things can’t get hotfixed while other mmo’s can hotfix issues like these… But imo I think Anet is just stubborn on too much stuff else it could be one of the best mmo companies out there. Like I still don’t understand why they have not yet changed the buff for being outnumbered too something more useful then exp and magic find.

Merendel.7128:

Aneu.1748:

The fact remains that siege is now defending a keep and not players! Previously it took co-ordinated defenders who knew what to do in order for a keep to not flip, it required both siege and players to fight off the attackers, now I could quite easily stick a dribbling idiot on an Arrowcart and it can turn most forces away and if one isnt enough I can build 12 on a single gate due to the increase in range also increasing the amount of AC’s that can hit a single gate! To anyone with a modicum of balance and sense this is obviously not following what the original concept of WvW was meant to be and it isnt one I or many others wish to be part of – Let us actually fight each other rather than blueball all the time.

Previously the only way to really defend the keep/tower was to either A) have a large enough group with the skill to roll up the zerg ball, or have a small group but enough smarts/time to setup a killing zone that will wipe the zerg ball as the run in the breach.

While option A is preferable often you cant have the coverage (outside T1)to intercept a mobile zerg before they breach and overwhelm what defenders are inside. The only major difference between option B and now is the small group can force the zerg off the doors with the AC’s instead of bumrushing the door/wall at point blank range. The attackers have to setup siege to take out the defending siege instead of facerubing the door. Guess what if your group of corordinated defenders does not show up the keep will still fall as the attackers pelt it from longer range. You can still go out and have your fight of skill vs zerg. Well unless your idea of skill was leap off the walls with heavy protection CD’s, AOE the daylights out of the zerg, and then dive back into the portal before they kill you.

I’m not getting what you are saying. You say that a small group could defend before yet it sounds like you are in favor of this arrowcart buff.

Also I don’t know why option A would ever be preferabl. Zerging is never the ideal solution, at most it is a necessary evil.

VOLKON.1290:

Hickeroar.9734:

VOLKON.1290:

Pavel.8531:

Sure, data before panic. We don’t have any reasons to fear the Anet WvW balancing team, right? Right? RIGHT? Look what great job they did with the ACs.

I have been. Been playing extensively with ACs since. We’ve adjusted tactics to account for stronger ACs. Apparently not everyone has figured that out yet though unfortunately.

Player tactics have been easy to change. What’s sucked is the fact that they murder siege so fast. After getting used to the damage increase against players, I don’t mind it.

… Which is why I’ve been seeing a lot more flash built trebs taking out the ACs before the rams get placed.

Because Trebuchets where used to destroy siege weapons in the dark ages right? Dude… Trebuchet shots where no laser-guided missles back then.

Instead of trying to bash people who are not satisfied with the last patches everyone here should focus on the real reason everyone is so upset. The reasons (in my opinion) are:

1. There is no real dialoge between the developers and the community
2. Every great idea that was posted in the forum got ignored (instead we get more stuff noone needs or wants, except a really small minority ofc, because you know there is always someone who defends the bull thats going on)
3. All the big promises that where made turned out to be utterly disappointing.

e.g. culling got fixed, but who would consider GW2 to be the best mmo if some of us can only see green/blue/red basic modells instead of the great art design? Just one example of th many mistakes that where made. Not even speaking about the skillags here.

So I repeat myself: Instead of bashing each other about one (ok but major) change in the game we should try to convince the employees from anet to be reasonable and meet the costumers demands.

Entropy.4732:

By the way, did any players actually buy that weird little guild flag sticking out of your rear they advertised last patch? Haven’t seen a single person rocking those.

Jaxon is all things to all updates

TyrDaishi.1057:

VOLKON.1290:

Hickeroar.9734:

VOLKON.1290:

Pavel.8531:

Sure, data before panic. We don’t have any reasons to fear the Anet WvW balancing team, right? Right? RIGHT? Look what great job they did with the ACs.

I have been. Been playing extensively with ACs since. We’ve adjusted tactics to account for stronger ACs. Apparently not everyone has figured that out yet though unfortunately.

Player tactics have been easy to change. What’s sucked is the fact that they murder siege so fast. After getting used to the damage increase against players, I don’t mind it.

… Which is why I’ve been seeing a lot more flash built trebs taking out the ACs before the rams get placed.

Because Trebuchets where used to destroy siege weapons in the dark ages right? Dude… Trebuchet shots where no laser-guided missles back then.

Instead of trying to bash people who are not satisfied with the last patches everyone here should focus on the real reason everyone is so upset. The reasons (in my opinion) are:

1. There is no real dialoge between the developers and the community
2. Every great idea that was posted in the forum got ignored (instead we get more stuff noone needs or wants, except a really small minority ofc, because you know there is always someone who defends the bull thats going on)
3. All the big promises that where made turned out to be utterly disappointing.

e.g. culling got fixed, but who would consider GW2 to be the best mmo if some of us can only see green/blue/red basic modells instead of the great art design? Just one example of th many mistakes that where made. Not even speaking about the skillags here.

So I repeat myself: Instead of bashing each other about one (ok but major) change in the game we should try to convince the employees from anet to be reasonable and meet the costumers demands.

Don’t go and try getting “dark ages” on me. In the “dark ages” they didn’t have elementalists raining meteor showers on the walls to clear the defenses so a ram could walk up to the gate and break it open. In the “dark ages” sieges took weeks or months and starvation and disease were major weapons. Trebuchets often threw rotting corpses and carcasses over the wall to spread disease. Using the dark ages as an excuse. Please.

No, we should not try to convince ANet to “be reasonable and meet the customers demands”. First off, simply put, it’s their game. Second, not all customers are making these demands, and they’re certainly not reasonable in the opinion of some. What, should ANet be forced to try and meet the demand of every kitten customer out there? Ridiculous.

I get a kick out of the “every great idea was ignored” line. Great to who? You? Who are you to decide what I or ANet should consider great? You’re nothing more than a faceless opinion typed out on a forum on the internet, as am I. ANet is the actual company that contains the creative minds presenting this game we’re playing. Great ideas, and whether or not they can actually be implemented without damaging the game or their visions of the game should be determined by them, not us. We can offer opinions and hope to influence something, but demands? Sheesh.

But, I guess today’s the day we’ll find out what they did. Hopefully Devon chose to use a scalpel rather than a sledge hammer with regards to changes, for in my opinion and that of many the AC changes are fine as they are. The game’s adapting to the changes just fine. Well… most people it seems.

Look the problem is, siege should not be anti-personnel. It should buff an attacking/defending force like it did before, but not to the point of being OP, but 4 unreachable arrowcarts behind a wall should not be able to make a kill zone that can stop upto 50 people. Players and only player skills should be able to do this. And 2 arrowcarts should not be able to burn 2 superior rams before they take down a gate…

You can clearly see that this range buff has not been thought out, some of the place you can hit with a cart from behind a wall are just unfair, that’s even how I feel even as I am manically laughing at the stupidity of it. It felt so balanced before, with keeps walls, distance to choke points and you would be in danger while using a cart in an offensive position. It feels to me as if some new guy has walked in and wanted to make his mark.

Check this out, not I am not sure if it was hacks or if I was just missing something and this stuff is intended but regardless it is total and utter nonsense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CdrD89ba7N8

I hope they increase arrow cart damage.. I mean it’s so stupid that a character can solo an arrow cart..

If you are crying about AC damage, there is (Siege Bunker) that you can buy with world rank points. Granted it should give higher resists than it currently does. But I would rather they up that than nerf the AC damage to toons.
ie 5/10/15/20/25 instead of the 1/2/3/4/5 it does now.

… finally happened on Tuesday the 14. Mai

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Update-on-Arrow-Carts-in-WvW

PS: Btw. Friday was 5/10, sunday was 5/12