Guild Wars 2

At this point should we all just be using Arrow Cart hacks? It’s a complete waste of time playing this game at this point otherwise. Given this has been a problem for months without any improvement or comment, is it safe to presume this is approved by ANet?

Windowed Mode and Eyefinity are not hacks.

Sharpoon.8197:

Windowed Mode and Eyefinity are not hacks.

Hey, hey, look.

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Sharpoon.8197:

Windowed Mode and Eyefinity are not hacks.

But their use is an exploit.

Don’t bother posting that it’s not an exploit unless you’re from ANet, in which case I’d really like to hear what you have to say about this.

Neither windowed mode nor eyefinity are exploits. There are legitimate uses for them, which is why the game itself supports these things. There’s really no programmable criteria to tell if they are being used in a exploitative manner.

Opc.4718:

Neither windowed mode nor eyefinity are exploits. There are legitimate uses for them, which is why the game itself supports these things. There’s really no programmable criteria to tell if they are being used in a exploitative manner.

They use a game mechanic (displaying the game world) in a way that was unintended[*1] and gives the user a competitive advantage. An exploit.

The game itself does not “support” these things, it turns a blind eye.

No amount of sensible or ludicrous playerbase discussion on this will affect my opinion that this is an exploit. The only thing that can change that is ANet saying “This is not an exploit.” Which they won’t do, because it is an exploit which they’d then have to fix. If it isn’t an exploit they’d readily say “Life is good, nothing to see here.”

Understand that the above paragraph is not designed to antagonise any member of the playerbase, but to prompt a response from ANet.

1. It’s an assumption that this is unintended, which is why I asked for an ANet comment.

Its unlikely they will ever respond. There have already been hundreds, if not thousands of posts making reference to the problem. A number of people in here even made their forum signatures outlining the problem. This discussion has been going on for at least 8 months that I can remember and there are posts from as early as launch where developers are talking about how they support eyefinity users. Anets silence on the issue that so many people have brought up to me can only mean one of two things, either they support the unfair advantage or they have no intention of fixing it. Either way, yes, perhaps we should all be exploiting now.

I’ve decided that whenever we’re vsing TC i’ll be exploiting arrow carts and then spam /laugh at them.

TC do it all the time, it is sickening.

TC motto: “Cant break our way in? We’ll exploit our way in!”

Said it multiple times and will say it again… they should unlock the zoom for everyone. It is a simple fix that levels the playing field. Would be great if ACs observed overhead environments but that would just be a bonus.

Furry Fury.9036:

Opc.4718:

Neither windowed mode nor eyefinity are exploits. There are legitimate uses for them, which is why the game itself supports these things. There’s really no programmable criteria to tell if they are being used in a exploitative manner.

They use a game mechanic (displaying the game world) in a way that was unintended[*1] and gives the user a competitive advantage. An exploit.

The game itself does not “support” these things, it turns a blind eye.

No amount of sensible or ludicrous playerbase discussion on this will affect my opinion that this is an exploit. The only thing that can change that is ANet saying “This is not an exploit.” Which they won’t do, because it is an exploit which they’d then have to fix. If it isn’t an exploit they’d readily say “Life is good, nothing to see here.”

Understand that the above paragraph is not designed to antagonise any member of the playerbase, but to prompt a response from ANet.

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1. It’s an assumption that this is unintended, which is why I asked for an ANet comment.

By your definition using a keyboard is exploitation.

Peetee.9406:

Furry Fury.9036:

Opc.4718:

Neither windowed mode nor eyefinity are exploits. There are legitimate uses for them, which is why the game itself supports these things. There’s really no programmable criteria to tell if they are being used in a exploitative manner.

They use a game mechanic (displaying the game world) in a way that was unintended[*1] and gives the user a competitive advantage. An exploit.

The game itself does not “support” these things, it turns a blind eye.

No amount of sensible or ludicrous playerbase discussion on this will affect my opinion that this is an exploit. The only thing that can change that is ANet saying “This is not an exploit.” Which they won’t do, because it is an exploit which they’d then have to fix. If it isn’t an exploit they’d readily say “Life is good, nothing to see here.”

Understand that the above paragraph is not designed to antagonise any member of the playerbase, but to prompt a response from ANet.

---

1. It’s an assumption that this is unintended, which is why I asked for an ANet comment.

By your definition using a keyboard is exploitation.

Okay, I’ll bite: go for it, explain.

Seems that the people who say it isn’t an exploit, support this exploit (by doing it themselves, or know someone that does), and people who don’t support, are getting abused by this exploit.

I myself, have no clue what it is, so I am glad I am ignorant. I just try to stay out of the arrowcart spam the best I can.

Yes start exploiting please the more the better, since thenWvW will become even more unplayable and popultion will hopfully dwindle So A-net can check their stats and see WvW is in dire straits so maybe they will have some people working on it for a change.

#stillcan’tkickafkteammates@rofl.com

They can just have an extra computation that determines whether the target area can be seen in a 16:10 or 16:9 aspect ratio. Unfortunately, it’d be a miracle if they actually bothered to do anything at all.

Lord Kuru.3685:

They can just have an extra computation that determines whether the target area can be seen in a 16:10 or 16:9 aspect ratio. Unfortunately, it’d be a miracle if they actually bothered to do anything at all.

Yes, this is by far the most sensible solution. I suspect your summary is also accurate.

Furry Fury.9036:

Sharpoon.8197:

Windowed Mode and Eyefinity are not hacks.

But their use is an exploit.

Don’t bother posting that it’s not an exploit unless you’re from ANet, in which case I’d really like to hear what you have to say about this.

Eyefinity is not only accepted, it gets technical support. It’s part of Anet’s ongoing development.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/tech/Eyefinity/first

That said, there are third-party ‘zoom hacks’ in use that are exploits. Please stop confusing these two different things.

Contiguous.1345:

Furry Fury.9036:

Sharpoon.8197:

Windowed Mode and Eyefinity are not hacks.

But their use is an exploit.

Don’t bother posting that it’s not an exploit unless you’re from ANet, in which case I’d really like to hear what you have to say about this.

Eyefinity is not only accepted, it gets technical support. It’s part of Anet’s ongoing development.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/tech/Eyefinity/first

That said, there are third-party ‘zoom hacks’ in use that are exploits. Please stop confusing these to different things.

Okay thanks for that info.

Is it categorical that the use of Eyefinity/Windowed mode is acceptable for WvW, specifically targetting around/over walls, which are obviously designed to prevent precisely that?

I really would like an ANet source to confirm this.

I’m more than happy for those with the hardware to have a greater field of vision. Even the ability to see beyond walls is an advantage, but to be able to destroy defensive siege, surely it’s too much. This is too much of an advantage to too small a segment of the population to be considered fair in my opinion.

Hacks are not exploits. Please stop confusing these to [sic] different things.

Hang on though, even if someone is using a really high resolution, surely the ability to zoom out is fixed? Or is it that the zoom range is related to the resolution?

Furry Fury.9036:

Contiguous.1345:

Furry Fury.9036:

Sharpoon.8197:

Windowed Mode and Eyefinity are not hacks.

But their use is an exploit.

Don’t bother posting that it’s not an exploit unless you’re from ANet, in which case I’d really like to hear what you have to say about this.

Eyefinity is not only accepted, it gets technical support. It’s part of Anet’s ongoing development.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/tech/Eyefinity/first

That said, there are third-party ‘zoom hacks’ in use that are exploits. Please stop confusing these to different things.

Okay thanks for that info.

Is it categorical that the use of Eyefinity/Windowed mode is acceptable for WvW, specifically targetting around/over walls, which are obviously designed to prevent precisely that?

I really would like an ANet source to confirm this.

I’m more than happy for those with the hardware to have a greater field of vision. Even the ability to see beyond walls is an advantage, but to be able to destroy defensive siege, surely it’s too much. This is too much of an advantage to too small a segment of the population to be considered fair in my opinion.

Hacks are not exploits. Please stop confusing these to [sic] different things.

Eyefinity doesn’t allow the user to see any more than normal. All that changes is the aspect ratio of the screen combined with high resolution. Not only that, the projection model used creates an inverse fish-eye distortion that actually reduces the field of view by about 30%. Result is you get to see maybe a 50% wider view.
You can simulate the view on a normal monitor by selecting window mode and setting your window to a roughly 4:1 letterbox.
You will find that you cannot see over walls or into towers or any of the places that a normal monitor won’t display by simply panning the camera.

The genuine exploit concerns the use of a third-party zoom-release where the game client is persuaded to allow extreme zoom distance. The user is then able to get a bird’s eye view of the locality from several times the normal height. This makes it easy to target the top of walls and the open centre of most structures.

Afik Anet are unable to ‘fix’ this because it’s built into the Havok 3D engine that’s in common use for many MMOs. The ‘hack’ is into a part of the system they have no control over. So all of this complaining and blaming is a bit pointless

Contiguous.1345:

Furry Fury.9036:

Contiguous.1345:

Furry Fury.9036:

Sharpoon.8197:

Windowed Mode and Eyefinity are not hacks.

But their use is an exploit.

Don’t bother posting that it’s not an exploit unless you’re from ANet, in which case I’d really like to hear what you have to say about this.

Eyefinity is not only accepted, it gets technical support. It’s part of Anet’s ongoing development.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/tech/Eyefinity/first

That said, there are third-party ‘zoom hacks’ in use that are exploits. Please stop confusing these to different things.

Okay thanks for that info.

Is it categorical that the use of Eyefinity/Windowed mode is acceptable for WvW, specifically targetting around/over walls, which are obviously designed to prevent precisely that?

I really would like an ANet source to confirm this.

I’m more than happy for those with the hardware to have a greater field of vision. Even the ability to see beyond walls is an advantage, but to be able to destroy defensive siege, surely it’s too much. This is too much of an advantage to too small a segment of the population to be considered fair in my opinion.

Hacks are not exploits. Please stop confusing these to [sic] different things.

Eyefinity doesn’t allow the user to see any more than normal. All that changes is the aspect ratio of the screen combined with high resolution. Not only that, the projection model used creates an inverse fish-eye distortion that actually reduces the field of view by about 30%. Result is you get to see maybe a 50% wider view.
You can simulate the view on a normal monitor by selecting window mode and setting your window to a roughly 4:1 letterbox.
You will find that you cannot see over walls or into towers or any of the places that a normal monitor won’t display by simply panning the camera.

The genuine exploit concerns the use of a third-party zoom-release where the game client is persuaded to allow extreme zoom distance. The user is then able to get a bird’s eye view of the locality from several times the normal height. This makes it easy to target the top of walls and the open centre of most structures.

Afik Anet are unable to ‘fix’ this because it’s built into the Havok 3D engine that’s in common use for many MMOs. The ‘hack’ is into a part of the system they have no control over. So all of this complaining and blaming is a bit pointless

Thanks very much Contiguous, this confirms my suspicions.

So if I understand correctly, Eyefinity & friends do not give the ability to bypass walls for targetting. Anyone able to do so must be hacking (ie. zoomhacking). This is important so I can report players on my server with confidence.

Yes we should all use these exploits and never stop till anet decides to deal with them. If enough people use it for extended periods of time I am sure anet will take a look maby

Opc.4718:

Neither windowed mode nor eyefinity are exploits. There are legitimate uses for them, which is why the game itself supports these things. There’s really no programmable criteria to tell if they are being used in a exploitative manner.

Yes, there is, program the distance and LOS correctly and people with multiple displays no longer have an unfair advantage.

Because that what it is: having a different LOS than someone else is an unfair advantage and ANet should do something about it.

Furry Fury.9036:

Thanks very much Contiguous, this confirms my suspicions.

So if I understand correctly, Eyefinity & friends do not give the ability to bypass walls for targetting. Anyone able to do so must be hacking (ie. zoomhacking). This is important so I can report players on my server with confidence.

In my experience that’s true. I use Eyefinity because it looks fantastic and improves game-immersion terrifically but it gives me no ability to see the top of walls etc. (There’s one spot at Briar where you can see inside because of the topology – but anyone who knows can do that)

That said, you have to be careful. It’s easy to mistake a perfectly OK piece of cunning for a hack.
I got very upset over someone destroying our siege inside garrison – targeting stuff I thought couldn’t possibly be reached. But then the person responsible boasted about it and gave me enough information to work out where they must have been standing. When I checked, it was one of those spots where you can see through the gap above the gate and sure enough, the carefully-placed siege was perfectly accessible to an AC.

Atherakhia.4086:

At this point should we all just be using Arrow Cart hacks? It’s a complete waste of time playing this game at this point otherwise. Given this has been a problem for months without any improvement or comment, is it safe to presume this is approved by ANet?

Laws are there to be skirted. You have to get as NEAR AS POSSIBLE to breaking the law without actually stepping over the line. That’s the rule of our society.

Svarty.8019:

Atherakhia.4086:

At this point should we all just be using Arrow Cart hacks? It’s a complete waste of time playing this game at this point otherwise. Given this has been a problem for months without any improvement or comment, is it safe to presume this is approved by ANet?

Laws are there to be skirted. You have to get as NEAR AS POSSIBLE to breaking the law without actually stepping over the line. That’s the rule of our society.

I thought the law was, its only illegal if you get caught?

Contiguous.1345:

Furry Fury.9036:

Contiguous.1345:

Furry Fury.9036:

Sharpoon.8197:

Windowed Mode and Eyefinity are not hacks.

But their use is an exploit.

Don’t bother posting that it’s not an exploit unless you’re from ANet, in which case I’d really like to hear what you have to say about this.

Eyefinity is not only accepted, it gets technical support. It’s part of Anet’s ongoing development.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/tech/Eyefinity/first

That said, there are third-party ‘zoom hacks’ in use that are exploits. Please stop confusing these to different things.

Okay thanks for that info.

Is it categorical that the use of Eyefinity/Windowed mode is acceptable for WvW, specifically targetting around/over walls, which are obviously designed to prevent precisely that?

I really would like an ANet source to confirm this.

I’m more than happy for those with the hardware to have a greater field of vision. Even the ability to see beyond walls is an advantage, but to be able to destroy defensive siege, surely it’s too much. This is too much of an advantage to too small a segment of the population to be considered fair in my opinion.

Hacks are not exploits. Please stop confusing these to [sic] different things.

Eyefinity doesn’t allow the user to see any more than normal. All that changes is the aspect ratio of the screen combined with high resolution. Not only that, the projection model used creates an inverse fish-eye distortion that actually reduces the field of view by about 30%. Result is you get to see maybe a 50% wider view.
You can simulate the view on a normal monitor by selecting window mode and setting your window to a roughly 4:1 letterbox.
You will find that you cannot see over walls or into towers or any of the places that a normal monitor won’t display by simply panning the camera.

The genuine exploit concerns the use of a third-party zoom-release where the game client is persuaded to allow extreme zoom distance. The user is then able to get a bird’s eye view of the locality from several times the normal height. This makes it easy to target the top of walls and the open centre of most structures.

Afik Anet are unable to ‘fix’ this because it’s built into the Havok 3D engine that’s in common use for many MMOs. The ‘hack’ is into a part of the system they have no control over. So all of this complaining and blaming is a bit pointless

This is actually incorrect.

You CAN see over walls…and also you can do it without eyefinity or multiple monitors with the same resolution (although having these will make it easier to see and do).

To test it…build and arrow cart outside the wall of a tower relatively close and try to shoot inside by aiming your camera down. You can’t because you can’t see over the wall.

Go to your graphic settings and and set it to windowed mode….vertically shrink your screen so its almost to the top of your monitor, but leave it at the width of your monitor. This will cause your field of view to widen, so that when you aim down to look over the wall…you can now actually see INSIDE the tower…and because you can…you can now target the arrow cart inside the tower….this same tactic can be used to shoot around corners you normally couldn’t see etc.

With multiple monitors (they need to be the same resolution) it just makes it easier to see. If you do this on a normal monitor your screen is really really small and hard to see, but it can be done.

Window mode doesn’t get everywhere and is a realy PITA to use. I’ve tried it just to see. It can be useful but it isn’t that useful.

Well, I stand corrected. At extreme window aspect ratios you can see inside. As CreativeAnarchy says, it’s a pain to do it – but it’s possible.

That kinda puts the lid on the argument – if it’s available to all players as part of the normal function of the program, it’s not an exploit.

So if I buy more monitors I can use this exploit too?

Why does one have to own more monitors to get more screen view space? That’s not a level playing field. This IS an exploit, legal or not.

Roneth.5728:

So if I buy more monitors I can use this exploit too?

Why does one have to own more monitors to get more screen view space? That’s not a level playing field. This IS an exploit, legal or not.

You don’t have to buy more monitors, you can do this in window mode. Did you read the thread? It is not an exploit it is FOV, change your field of view if you like.

Most of the time your server is just poor at placing siege, the rest of the time the AC is shooting through the hole above the door.

it’s not the game that’s broken, it’s the people who refuse to play fair. All anet has to do is allow us to right click the persons name and have google display their current location, then the opposing server can group up offline and zerg the person itself. That wouldn’t be an exploit either. lol

qualm like a bomb.6512:

Roneth.5728:

So if I buy more monitors I can use this exploit too?

Why does one have to own more monitors to get more screen view space? That’s not a level playing field. This IS an exploit, legal or not.

You don’t have to buy more monitors, you can do this in window mode. Did you read the thread? It is not an exploit it is FOV, change your field of view if you like.

Most of the time your server is just poor at placing siege, the rest of the time the AC is shooting through the hole above the door.

The real issue here is that it is a function of Windows, not some 3rd party hack or multiple monitors. Nobody can tell an individual NOT to buy and use multiple monitors in the privacy of your own home, and even then the computer itself allows for the use of multiple monitors. The only way for Anet to stop the majority of it from happening is to ‘disable’ windowed mode, and that, likely, will not happen. Many people use their computers for work, and work while playing, needing full use of their pc programs at a glance. Full screen mode just doesn’t allow for that. And not everyone plays wvw.

Define fair.

I think most people will agree that if it’s possible to do something using the client software as provided to everyone by Anet then it’s fair.

Thanks for the follow up Gamadorn.

I’d tried achieving this before and failed, you prompted a retry which did work to an extent and proved the point.

Whether or not this is an exploit is still moot. Just because it’s available to all doesn’t mean it’s by design (invulnerability spots in Borderlands etc). So Anet may not have considered this effect in WvW (no offence ANet, you can’t catch ’em all).

“Define fair” roflmao!!

“I did not sleep with that woman!” – it’s true, he was wide awake when it happened!

Putting aside morality:
To my astonishment I think we’ve reached an important conclusion in this thread.

It’s one that really needs to be more widely known and understood. I would hope Anet are aware of what’s been said here.
An official clarification of the matter as a sticky would help to clear the air generally.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

#stillcan’tkickafkteammates@rofl.com

Yes, that is very annoying.

Contiguous.1345:

structures.

Afik Anet are unable to ‘fix’ this because it’s built into the Havok 3D engine that’s in common use for many MMOs. The ‘hack’ is into a part of the system they have no control over. So all of this complaining and blaming is a bit pointless

Guild wars 2 engine is proprietary to arenanet. It uses Havok physics but the engine itself is proprietary.

I’m on the back wall of the lords room in hills. The enemy builds 5 arrow carts outside of the lords room along the circular entry way outside the tunnel to the left. They can see neither the tunnel leading to lords room or the arrow carts that are back there.

Their arrow carts managed to hit every square inch of the lords room despite being outside and to the side with no possible LOS.

Eyefinity? Hack? Exploit? You tell me…

You forget, AC does NOT need LOS. The AC can hit anywhere you can point your cursor at as long as it is in range. The scenario you describe sounds entirely possible without the use of hacks, and frequently people build ACs behind structures and corners to shoot AROUND it as long as their normal camera can be panned to see it. The issue is using zoom hacks to zoom further back and get camera angles that are not normally possible.

And stop using the term “eyefinity” if you don’t know what it actually is, its got nothing to do with a real zoom hack.

Opc, if you saw the setup Atherakhia is talking about then you’d agree it was hacks. To a point you need LOS on the area you’re attempting to hit with your camera angle and cursor…

It was clearly hacks and the opposing commander even acknowledged it by saying “Oh well” … It’s pathetic that people resort to cheating when they can’t wipe a force smaller than them in WvW …

L2P scrubs :-) (to the exploiters/hackers obviously) …

Why don’t arrow carts get obstructed shooting through the walls and gates like characters skill does?

Atherakhia.4086:

I’m on the back wall of the lords room in hills. The enemy builds 5 arrow carts outside of the lords room along the circular entry way outside the tunnel to the left. They can see neither the tunnel leading to lords room or the arrow carts that are back there.

Their arrow carts managed to hit every square inch of the lords room despite being outside and to the side with no possible LOS.

Eyefinity? Hack? Exploit? You tell me…

That sounds like a hack.

However, people are way too quick to cry AC exploit in most cases. I’ve seen map chat explode over siege being hit by ACs outside the gate of NW tower in the BLs, for example. I can’t believe at this point in the game that it isn’t common knowledge that you can target inside a tower that has a hole over the gate.

I suppose if the Mad King dungeon returns this year everyone will be shooting over every wall.

Malik.6781:

Why don’t arrow carts get obstructed shooting through the walls and gates like characters skill does?

I think a small fix that would at least somewhat help this problem with arrow carts, is to have an invisible “wall” above the small tower/keep gates. I mean you can see inside the tower from it, so why not have an “invisible wall” for your Cursor and LOS there? That way if you put your cursor over it, the game still treats it like part of the wall and then you can’t click inside the tower to arrow cart it.

Sharpoon.8197:

Windowed Mode and Eyefinity are not hacks.

Are you saying it’s intended for ACs to shoot over walls and beyond normal camera angles?

Also since you didn’t get the memo, Eyefinity or multiple monitors has nothing to do with it.

I’m just waiting for them to make an “animation quality” drop down in graphics settings that makes it so that, when I do WvW, my FPS doesn’t drop 4 points as soon as someone starts shooting a kittening arrow cart. If four arrow carts start shooting on my area I get, like, 4-5 FPS. The animation itself is clearly superfluous as I have gone through arrow cart AoEs while roaming and seen that it is just a % chance of being hit inside the zone, being able to adjust my settings to lowest animation quality should remove it entirely and also reduce the strain on my machine from the skills everyone uses in zergs.

This is a fundamental issue to WvW that cannot be addressed with “counter animation spamming” like this thread’s obvious solution to counter sight-hack. I’ve played many, many games where there have been exploitable issues, and my solution to them was always to play fair until someone else exploited, at which point target them for the remainder of the game using the exact same bullkitten until they rage quit. That is, if I’m not the server admin with full privileges to ban their cheating kitten.

I am surprised that they haven’t fixed this honestly. It seems like something that shouldn’t be that hard to fix.

Zephyrus.9680:

Sharpoon.8197:

Windowed Mode and Eyefinity are not hacks.

Are you saying it’s intended for ACs to shoot over walls and beyond normal camera angles?

Also since you didn’t get the memo, Eyefinity or multiple monitors has nothing to do with it.

Please indicate where in the user agreement does it say that modifying your aspect ratio/ field of view through legitimate means such as windowed mode and eyefinity is prohibited.

I never said it was intended, but windowed mode and eyefinity are both accepted by anet. Using them is not an exploit. And yes, they have everything to do with it. Why would anyone be stupid enough to use an actual zoom hack when they can achieve the same result through legitimate methods.

Sharpoon.8197:

Zephyrus.9680:

Sharpoon.8197:

Windowed Mode and Eyefinity are not hacks.

Are you saying it’s intended for ACs to shoot over walls and beyond normal camera angles?

Also since you didn’t get the memo, Eyefinity or multiple monitors has nothing to do with it.

Please indicate where in the user agreement does it say that modifying your aspect ratio/ field of view through legitimate means such as windowed mode and eyefinity is prohibited.

I never said it was intended, but windowed mode and eyefinity are both accepted by anet. Using them is not an exploit. And yes, they have everything to do with it. Why would anyone be stupid enough to use an actual zoom hack when they can achieve the same result through legitimate methods.

I am asking a question, not making a claim, hence the question mark.

But since you’re making that claim. By all means, please indicate official clarification where Developers have stated it is legitimate to modify the aspect ratio in order to allow ACs to hit beyond normal camera angles. From what I have seen, they encourage players to report this activity which makes me believe you are just BSing your response.

They should really just let everyone zoom out. I see no reason why not.

If these are allowed then we should able to do so w/o having to resort to gimmicky stuff like a jacked up windowed mode.