Space Ship Meta

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

I know that wvw was never meant to be balanced – but I really do wonder why anyone still plays it – personally I’m rage quitting every other half an hour – map chat is full of rage (we’re a really nice server usually).
I don’t think that making balance patches every 3-6 to x months is any good. I know we have to wait another at least 2 months until maybe finally DH traps/range will be nerfed, until necro boon steal might be nerfed, until the ridiculous sustain a lot of the classes have will be nerfed, until the amount of stealth scrappers and mesmer have will ne nerfed (it annoys me that much to be stealthed every other second and have my class mechanics being hampered with by someone who doesn’t even need stealth) – if anything will be nerfed at all.
Playing wvw right now is a pain in the kitten. It’s been nearly 9 months since everything is out of control – that’s a really long time.
Please consider fixing stuff faster and most of all, don’t just tweak here and there, swing the nerf hammer!

The two zergs really fought from that far away – Really fun, isn’kitten Ranged damage in general. The other day I capped a tower with ~5 others and wondered mid fight why I was the only one in Lord’s – simple – all others stood 1200 away and pew pewed.

This isn’t Pirate Ship anymore – thus the title

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(edited by Jana.6831)

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Posted by: Melanion.4892

Melanion.4892

It’s called the Pirate Ship Meta. Because, you know, chasing that booty while the unwieldy hand of the government (Anet) tries desperately to shut us down.

Claude – Pink Fairy Mesmer

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Posted by: Gwaihir.1745

Gwaihir.1745

Trick isn’t to nerf everything. Diablo 3 after 3 years is moving into the top mmo slots. Why? They only nerf exploits, the rest is move the classes up to par. Their current endgame content is similar to fractals but the difficulty scales infinitely. Their classes are all within 4 levels of difficulty that they are able to complete after their last balance patch.
So let’s stop throwing around nerfs and throw solutions.

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

I play because of these days:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld-dWpWTWcY
Does not happen every day but when it happens its still so much fun.

I was planning to write lenghtier comment about WSR and specially NINE since we have been stuck in same tier for many months, but I can’t be bothered.

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Posted by: lioka qiao.8734

lioka qiao.8734

That’s just a bridge. No commander worth his salt will push a contested bridge without trying to bait the aoes out first. Same goes for any choke point really.

I will agree though that the pirate ship meta is annoying. ANET would have to revert stability to before the stacking buff change or rework it a bit to change the meta. There’s lots of threads on that so I won’t suggest anything more here.

Little red Lioka

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

It’s called the Pirate Ship Meta. Because, you know, chasing that booty while the unwieldy hand of the government (Anet) tries desperately to shut us down.

The meta before this was pirate ship – we’re now at space ship =)

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

That’s just a bridge. No commander worth his salt will push a contested bridge without trying to bait the aoes out first. Same goes for any choke point really.

I will agree though that the pirate ship meta is annoying. ANET would have to revert stability to before the stacking buff change or rework it a bit to change the meta. There’s lots of threads on that so I won’t suggest anything more here.

It’s not really about the choke – that is a typical fight nowadays – could be open field, the distance would be the same.

ETA: And the last patch brought more boon stealing and some DH buff which led to what I experience now in wvw – 2 groups miles apart and a sea of red rings inbetween them. Has never been that bad before.

(edited by Jana.6831)

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Posted by: Exciton.8942

Exciton.8942

Trick isn’t to nerf everything. Diablo 3 after 3 years is moving into the top mmo slots. Why? They only nerf exploits, the rest is move the classes up to par. Their current endgame content is similar to fractals but the difficulty scales infinitely. Their classes are all within 4 levels of difficulty that they are able to complete after their last balance patch.
So let’s stop throwing around nerfs and throw solutions.

D3 is all pve mindless farming. Of course it is fine to powercreep endlessly in that game. Also I wouldn’t call that game an MMO. Everything is 1-4 player instance in that game. I can’t call 1-4 massive…

WvW and PvP in this game is completely different animal, you can’t reasonably compare these two with the same standard. Imagine if you put PvP in D3. The balance will be hilariously bad and won’t be even worth playing.

Last but not least, 4 levels of difficulty sounds small? Each level of difficulty represents 17% health difference in that game. 4 level difference translates to (1.17^4 – 1) = 87.3% of difference. Imagine we have that much of difference of dps in gw2…

(edited by Exciton.8942)

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Posted by: Junkpile.7439

Junkpile.7439

I would teleport inside tower and build some superior siege.

Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Trick isn’t to nerf everything. Diablo 3 after 3 years is moving into the top mmo slots. Why? They only nerf exploits, the rest is move the classes up to par. Their current endgame content is similar to fractals but the difficulty scales infinitely. Their classes are all within 4 levels of difficulty that they are able to complete after their last balance patch.
So let’s stop throwing around nerfs and throw solutions.

If one of the top 3 GvG guilds quits right after they reformed again with the explanation that they wait until the game gets good again, then I guess you can’t just fix everything with even more buffs – and in fact you can’t as there’s that many invulnerabilities, passive and active, and that many insane heals that it’s more luck than skill if you are able to even hit someone, let alone kill.
Anet was all surprised about the bunker meta and the ESL match in which no one was able to kill each other: their answer: MOAR DAMAGE – but the classes still have got their invulnerabilities – so tell me: what should be buffed?

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

I would teleport inside tower and build some superior siege.

That’s what they did – it was their tower.
We actually fight with open field trebs – there’s no other way.

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Posted by: Infusion.7149

Infusion.7149

I would teleport inside tower and build some superior siege.

An arrowcart is overkill for 5 to 10 people when you have close to 15.

The team at the tower had more numbers, if they portal-bombed or just bombed the choke when the attacking team was actually ON the bridge there’d be no issue.

Unfortunately, until ranged damage carries a heavy recharge/activation/mobility penalty again (ala Barrage/Meteor Shower/Rapid Fire/Volley) this is the state of the game.

i.e.
CoR
Gun flame
Trueshot (to an extent)
Hunter’s ward , as far as stability ripping
Gravity Well , as far as stability ripping
Boon corruption overbuffing; Well of corruption being 4 or 5x stronger due to heralds spamming boons every 3 seconds

edit: see CoR post January 26th https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLpvG_2lBIM , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6HS5d4Hni8

Compare the damage of a glass fire ele in the pvp lobby with a zerker amulet, and a full ascended glass zerker ele with food/keep/world bonus buffs in wvw. Stat creep is a big part of the pirate ship meta.

Food + wrench = +200 power and 2557 from full power ascended = 2757 Power —> 2907 with Fire trait ; PvP max is 2375 power without the +150 Power from Fire minor trait

I have felt as though Ascended weapons and armor should have stats normalized to exotics in WvW for a long time now, but even full exotics are 2463 power ; full exotics with ascended trinkets is 2525 power.

Desolation (EU) → Yak’s Bend (US)
In your backline: Elementalist+Mesmer+Necromancer

(edited by Infusion.7149)

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Posted by: Blix.8021

Blix.8021

At this point I would be happy if they just made us use pvp amulets in wvw. Everyone screams “muh build diversity” whenever its suggested, but really? The meta has sucked for months, and continues to suck more and more. “Build diversity” is no good when every build is cancerous and zerg v zerg fights are nothing more than protracted mexican standoffs at choke points. Pvp amulets would lower the damage output at least, and maybe cause melee to be more viable.

Nerf superior siege damage vs players at the same time, and wvw might be somewhat enjoyable again.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

What would amulets change? we would still be stuck in the same kitten. It’s not the stats of anything it’s the traits and skills.

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Posted by: gennyt.3428

gennyt.3428

What would amulets change? we would still be stuck in the same kitten. It’s not the stats of anything it’s the traits and skills.

It’s the stats and the traits and the skills and the fight scales and the consumables etc. WvWvW has become the gutter where all of Anet’s PvE and eSports changes drained into over the years.

Whispers with meat.

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Posted by: Blix.8021

Blix.8021

Compare the damage of a glass fire ele in the pvp lobby with a zerker amulet, and a full ascended glass zerker ele with food/keep/world bonus buffs in wvw. Stat creep is a big part of the pirate ship meta.

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

It cannot be that difficult for them to data mine and find the outlier skills, traits, etc. Finding skills that are hitting for absurd amounts of damage, traits seemingly used in every build for a class or skills/traits that aren’t used at all should be what they are focusing on.

I get that skills/traits don’t exist in a vacuum, but some are just obviously broken/over used. Course I thought doubling down on AoE and long range damage was stupid but they did it anyway.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

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Posted by: bloodletting wolf.2837

bloodletting wolf.2837

It’s an omniblob problem but since a lot of people want to hide in their zerg they cry – loudly. How about splitting up and using some tactics? No? I guess we will just go back to spam stability and run through each other till one blob dies because that was just as much fun.

Kaa Mchorror NSP grenadier [hayt]

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Posted by: Blix.8021

Blix.8021

op’ kitten is like 15 v 20. Wow, such blobbers.

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

until the amount of stealth scrappers and mesmer have will ne nerfed (it annoys me that much to be stealthed every other second and have my class mechanics being hampered with by someone who doesn’t even need stealth)

Lolwat, this is a problem on US servers?

Engies and mesmers are still incredibly rare. If you find 1 or 2 engies in a 70 man zoneblob its a crowd. Even when roaming maybe 1 out of 20 encounters involve either class.

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Posted by: Infusion.7149

Infusion.7149

Before stealth gyro was nerfed , hammer scrappers pretty much took the place of some hammer warriors. They’re still very strong for roaming.

You see chronos in Tier 1 NA WvW even after alacrity nerfs, because of gravity wells, null field, veils, & portals. Feedback works on inexperienced omega golem users ; timewarp is good although long recharge, moa is good for trolling. The weapon skills are more or less yawn worthy, other than torment spam scepter & focus pull, shield block/stun, sword 2 if running Inspiration traitline.

Desolation (EU) → Yak’s Bend (US)
In your backline: Elementalist+Mesmer+Necromancer

(edited by Infusion.7149)

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Posted by: Fuzzion.2504

Fuzzion.2504

@OP its not called spaceship. It is pirate ship meta.

Fuzzionx [SF]
Guest member of [LOVE]
JQ official Prime Minister

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

until the amount of stealth scrappers and mesmer have will ne nerfed (it annoys me that much to be stealthed every other second and have my class mechanics being hampered with by someone who doesn’t even need stealth)

Lolwat, this is a problem on US servers?

Engies and mesmers are still incredibly rare. If you find 1 or 2 engies in a 70 man zoneblob its a crowd. Even when roaming maybe 1 out of 20 encounters involve either class.

I’m on EU – but it doesn’t really matter. Engis are very much there – even I run with mine from time to time as they’re pretty OP: smashing buttons is usually enough.
But if it’s no engi in my zerg it’s a mesmer and I’m stealthed without having any say in it every 15 seconds. The problem I have with that is that my class mechanics are tied to stealth, contrahery to all other classes – and you probably can’t imagine how annoying it is if all what you’re planning to do is just destroyed by someone who thinks it’s a good idea to spam stealth.

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

As a thief with a maximum ranged weapon of 900 it pretty hard to do anything there. It is not all that exciting. Just way too much AOE that can be stacked and stacked at range and there no need to even have a target.

Overall ranged AOE is way too high in wvw and especially since it hits so hard with the power creep.. If they had 1/3rd the AOE skills in or they did 1/3rd the damage it does now it might be worthwhile trying to bust through those rings.

While understanding this a chokepoint the plethora off the same can turn a whols lot of areas that should not be chokepoints into chokepoints.

That all said another way of fixing this could be things like Returning shadows resilience to the original proposed 50 percent damage reduction while stealthed. A thief can try and sneak a team through that or more skills that can neutralize a stacked AOE in some manner like some sort of dispel or spell counter that can poof them rings away.

One thing I am finding about the BLS is that with more of the BLOB and the pirate ship stuff i find my self going there more and more. At least you can find the types of fights I like more there.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Baba: It doesn’t really matter with what class I run – that’s not really the point – I was just rage quitting before this thread yet again and of of the points that made me mad was being stealthed in the worst possible moments and that constantly. You can’t buff thief enough to live through this meta. And people don’t seem to get that every single class in this game is OP and that killing someone is just luck and not skill.
Btw: I’m currently getting the elites for my other classes, so I’m running around with all of them. Yes, I exploit the shared WxP.

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Posted by: Aezyr.5304

Aezyr.5304

Combine pirate ship meta with boon sharing and you have your space ship meta :p

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Posted by: Anabatta.9208

Anabatta.9208

man this post is so irrelevent, Anet please ignore who ever posted this thread. Sure pirate ship is a thing but any good guild can fight pirates head on and win. these guys are just kitten cause they lost a couple of fights in wvw

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

man this post is so irrelevent, Anet please ignore who ever posted this thread. Sure pirate ship is a thing but any good guild can fight pirates head on and win. these guys are just kitten cause they lost a couple of fights in wvw

Yeah, sure – I don’t know anything about good fights! Your arguments are really good and completely destroy my point.
And btw: no one told me to post this – and with the right commander we still destroy the DH trap and wells spammers – it’s just really boring and not what I’m used to of wvw – it would be if I had started to play mid last year, but unfortunately I’ve been around for more than 2 years, so I know that this game mode has once been exciting.

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Posted by: Spurnshadow.3678

Spurnshadow.3678

There’s been a huge power creep in this game going on for almost a year now with the changes anet has made to the base mechanics. This has been made worse with the new classes. The big problem is that the defensive side of things, namely toughness and stability / anti CC has stayed in place or gotten worse. So, yes, lots of things need nerfs. That or they need to buff toughness/vit and rework the stability/CC mechanics.

Blackgate Native. It takes tremendous strength and skill to pull a lever.

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Posted by: Nausicca.6038

Nausicca.6038

Hello Jana,

Just a short message from Anet:

" We don’t give a kitten about wvw".

Oh wait no, my bad. They don’t post anything about wvw. Cupcake anyone?

VoxL, NSPPT

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

Baba: It doesn’t really matter with what class I run – that’s not really the point – I was just rage quitting before this thread yet again and of of the points that made me mad was being stealthed in the worst possible moments and that constantly. You can’t buff thief enough to live through this meta. And people don’t seem to get that every single class in this game is OP and that killing someone is just luck and not skill.
Btw: I’m currently getting the elites for my other classes, so I’m running around with all of them. Yes, I exploit the shared WxP.

Well when you speak to getting a thief through this meta I will disagree. i find in 1v1 one fights or even 1v2 and 3 i can do ok against any profession with some harder than others.

The underlying issue WvW is raw numbers where one side so dominates the other there just no way to survive and in particular with all that ranged AOE. My own feeling is if there less of it in order for one group to take another down quickly they have to focus one target. That fine and can be dealt with. With the AOE you do not target anyone but rather an area and it destroys sveral players that try to step through it rather then just the one. That harder to deal with.

This really shows itself when trying to come to the defense of a keep or tower where as soon as you step through a portal into the lords room you and your pals walk into 15 stacked AOE rings even as the enemy can be attacking other players elsewhere. It just instant death and not a lot of “fun”. With single target type attacks at least they have to locate and redirect attention to you as you enter said portal giving you a chance to react. I really do not know what they do at higher tiers but I have seen entire lords rooms ina keep nothing but a sea of red circles overlapping red circles of AOE damage and with DH traps or wells added on top of that it does not give much of an oppurunity to use ones own abilities.

This probably why I prefer not ro run with larger zergs. It just boring style IMHO and i am not sure what can be done about it. if anything. I know some prefer it but it very much like comparing the tactical skill of dropping a bomb from 20000 feet on a group of Persians trying to get through the pass at Thermopylae , as opposed to having those spartans down on the ground fighting them as individual members of a unit using their own inherent skill.

(edited by babazhook.6805)

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Posted by: shift.1570

shift.1570

Well to kinda put it in perspective,i was leading that “zerg”.
We dont run above 15 on any of our raids.
We never got above 15 at all that night and prolly a couple less when we fought you guys.I admit there was a few pugs with us,cant realy help that.
We do not run DH or any Condi reapers at all.Its a mostly balanced set up.
You guys pushed across the bridge with zero or very few melle,we just sustained out an pushed you guys with our like 6 melle classes we had.You can call it pirate shipping if you like but i can garuntee you we run less pirate ship than most guilds weve fought in the last 3 months and less than most guilds on our server(Whiteside Ridge) and we do very well.We understand that it is pirate ship meta,but you can still run melle/range you just have to be more patient on engages,and change certain things with builds that obviously i wont go into.
I mean the GH blob came straight after you lost that fight,which we tried to fight and lost of course,and your guild [MM] was with that zerg.
Dont realy see your complaint,pirate ship is strong but not unbeatable if you know what your doing.
Have fun.

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Posted by: Fat Disgrace.4275

Fat Disgrace.4275

I can confirm that [nine] do not run pirate ship crud. We face you guys in your bl at air keep and not once did they resort to ranged meta, bta on the other hand… no comment. anyway,moving on.

This is what wvw is all about now, ranged fights and people hugging seige in towers although this mu has been pretty exciting for guilds that like to have a scrap like the old times.

Fat Disgrace (banned) Man Flu Survivor – war/The Cabbage -Thief (gunners hold / [TaG])

gw1 – healing signet/frenzy/charge

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

It’s not about guilds or anything – and this fight was definitively ranged – no matter what you say (you can still see the orange sword). I don’t want to shame anyone, this was just a prime example of how fights are nowadays – doesn’t matter against who and doesn’t matter if this was a blob or not – it’s just plain boring and anet made it possible.
ETA²: This isn’t my guild – I’m a solo roamer and happened to be there.

@ baba: good for you – you’re a pro we all always knew that and all I’m talking about is thief and thief alone – there’s nothing more on my mind.

ETA: The “they ran into the tower and built an AC” was a joke, althought wvw is like that nowadays.

(edited by Jana.6831)

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Posted by: shift.1570

shift.1570

I think the real issue is,,because lets face PS aint going away.
You choose as a guild to run it or not,we fight guilds that run it(very bad and very good),guilds that dont,also (very good or ver bad).Because they run PS doesnt make them bad,they can be very very skilled.
“and this fight was definitively ranged – no matter what you say (you can still see the orange sword)” Well yeh i just said we had 14 an a few pugs +what you guys had = orange swords lol
It was a ranged fight but only because you had no mellee,,we made it not a range fight because we had mellee and pushed you..Also that bridge is a choke…is it not,of course its gonna start as a range fight.

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Posted by: shift.1570

shift.1570

Anyway guys,we have had some realy great fun fights this week.
Have fun, Waves

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

I’m not in this guild – I’m an annoyed GW2 customer who’s killed by facerollers and who is denied good fights because of the pirate ship+ meta and I’m angry because of that – that’s what this thread is about. The new BLs and guild upgrades are bad enough, but that really no one at anet cares about that we can play this game mode is really sad.

The guild group you faced was half your size – and half of your zerg pewpewed away (orange sword) – so it’s a wonder they didn’t melee rush right into you.

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Posted by: Tongku.5326

Tongku.5326

I have felt for a very long time that this game in general has way too many passive and automatic abilities and not enough active (player activated) abilities.

Getting rid of the passives and moving them or tying them to actives, along with some minor buffs to the currently underwhelming and underused stability skills (for example : hallowed ground, well of power, rev brick road, etc.) would GREATLY and I do mean GREATLY improve the overall balance of the whole game.

In small scale / roaming, it would allow players to have better control over condi cleanses thus condi based players would not be as OP as they are currently, but neither be underpowered. It would be more skillbased play.

In large scale battles, where condi playstyles are on the flipside and nearly completely useless due to AOE cleanse / damage reduction / regen spam, they might actually become somewhat viable as it would put some actual responsibility on the players who currently just stand there and basically leech of off those that contribute to the fight.

Condi cleansing is EXTREMELY important because condi includes all soft CC, even immobilize, with the exception of being rooted where you have to destroy the root, but that would be fine due to unique nature of this skill. So by improving this, quite a bit of the overall CC spam would also be brought “in line” all at the same time.

Also, since more players would be more responsible for their own wellbeing, it would free up those of us running the AOE support builds that do all the AOE cleanses etc. to actually equip something else for a change and have more fun instead of consistantly “taking one for the team”.

A slight buff to stunbreakers, for example: 1 sec (or even half a sec, just enough to doge roll or use any insta disengage skill), 1 stack of stability on active stunbreaker skills, in addition to a buff of the stability skills mentioned above, would pretty much balance out the hard CC but without destroying it.

I really do not want to go back to the days such as GWEN meta where literally half the players were excluded from gameplay, just tone down the power / zerker based pirate ship and balance condi/cc a bit, while at the same time putting more emphasis on player skill rather then just “hiding in the zerg” mechanics.

Heavy Deedz – COSA – SF

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Posted by: bloodletting wolf.2837

bloodletting wolf.2837

I’m not in this guild – I’m an annoyed GW2 customer who’s killed by facerollers and who is denied good fights because of the pirate ship+ meta and I’m angry because of that – that’s what this thread is about. The new BLs and guild upgrades are bad enough, but that really no one at anet cares about that we can play this game mode is really sad.

The guild group you faced was half your size – and half of your zerg pewpewed away (orange sword) – so it’s a wonder they didn’t melee rush right into you.

Mostly what you are complaining about is your lack of tactics. They could probably tone pirate ship down a little but raging about it instead of adapting is a no win situation.

Kaa Mchorror NSP grenadier [hayt]

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

I’m not in this guild – I’m an annoyed GW2 customer who’s killed by facerollers and who is denied good fights because of the pirate ship+ meta and I’m angry because of that – that’s what this thread is about. The new BLs and guild upgrades are bad enough, but that really no one at anet cares about that we can play this game mode is really sad.

The guild group you faced was half your size – and half of your zerg pewpewed away (orange sword) – so it’s a wonder they didn’t melee rush right into you.

Mostly what you are complaining about is your lack of tactics. They could probably tone pirate ship down a little but raging about it instead of adapting is a no win situation.

There’s no stability left anymore – so I guess it’s time to rage – I could just run a necro or DH – but that would be a reason to rage as well.
It would all be fine if this game was free to play from start to finish, but it unfortunately isn’t – so I don’t have to take what I get, I can complain and that’s what I’m doing.

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Posted by: gennyt.3428

gennyt.3428

man this post is so irrelevent, Anet please ignore who ever posted this thread. Sure pirate ship is a thing but any good guild can fight pirates head on and win. these guys are just kitten cause they lost a couple of fights in wvw

Way to miss the point lol. The issue isn’t being unable to fight pirate ships, the issue is that the ranged blob meta has degraded the experience for so much of the playerbase. It’s a game and it’s suppose to be fun and entertaining and all that good stuff remember.

Whispers with meat.

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Posted by: JoTur.7256

JoTur.7256

For me the Pirate ship meta is like the turret engi in pvp or dueling an asura, it’s show me the serious of this game.

Skilled Ranger Team [AI] | Main ranger
condi theif&mesmer and Turret engi retired
Facerolled keyboard before it was meta

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Posted by: QQing.3089

QQing.3089

At this point I would be happy if they just made us use pvp amulets in wvw. Everyone screams “muh build diversity” whenever its suggested, but really? The meta has sucked for months, and continues to suck more and more. “Build diversity” is no good when every build is cancerous and zerg v zerg fights are nothing more than protracted mexican standoffs at choke points. Pvp amulets would lower the damage output at least, and maybe cause melee to be more viable.

Nerf superior siege damage vs players at the same time, and wvw might be somewhat enjoyable again.

I’ve wanted this for so long. I’ve wasted a lot of gold on gear but it would make balancing a little more realistic.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

JS, amulets in WvW would make the problems even worse. Fights are already very slow with Pirate ship. Nerfed offensive stats like how they are in sPvP would have blobs just be unkillable in melee, so we’re back to ye olde hammertrain except there’s no point in bombing because it wouldn’t kill anyone to begin with, and would subsequently turn the fight into almost purely a numbers game.

Older GvG/ZvZ success during hammertrain boiled down to aggressive burst paired with highly coordinated players building for durability to isolate and kill the opposing players’ damage sources. It’s why a small group could beat a larger one; bomb the damage via periph while the frontline just soaks damage, and once the opposing damage dealers are gone, the periph and backline can stop caring about the enemy’s DPS and support and just start cleaving through the frontline.

With no dead backline and poor periph (which is why the pirate ship is a thing, as periph builds got nerfed and backline got made more durable and got more damage simultaneously), the format would just devolve into a sustain game where nobody dies or one where the numbers become pretty much the only deciding factor.

Good periph/counter-backline and lack thereof truly will define the success or failure of a group in larger-scale combat. PvP amulets and kitten stats would massively inhibit tactical growth and trivialize the fights more so than now.

But yea, Pirate Ship is OP’s “space ship” – at least this is how it’s been on NA for over a year.

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Posted by: Akkeros.1675

Akkeros.1675

While i do not like the new meta by any means at least in open field, positioning (almost like a tactic) can be more important now than stacking or clumping.
I think that was ANETs whole idea behind the new skills, etc but may have gone a weeee bit too far.

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Posted by: iTB.1428

iTB.1428

am I the only one who thinks the (actual) meta is far better then it was like month or two ago? Yes, most ppl stick with the “old pirate” but it is now actually possible to play melee train almost like in the old days … yes you have to bait some CC before you commit into push but hey … that’s strategy … nothing bad about that imho.

I understand the frustration from blob players cuz they can’t do this thanks to bad builds and pt composition but it doesn’t mean it’s not possible …

I tb | Necro Raiders [NR]
Aurora Glade

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Posted by: Blix.8021

Blix.8021

Pirate ship fights are only slow because nobody wants to push. The reason nobody wants to push is because you can have your stab stripped immediately and die in seconds. If damage output were reduced in wvw, you’d see more people willing to play frontline again.

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Posted by: bloodletting wolf.2837

bloodletting wolf.2837

Pirate ship fights are only slow because nobody wants to push. The reason nobody wants to push is because you can have your stab stripped immediately and die in seconds. If damage output were reduced in wvw, you’d see more people willing to play frontline again.

Correction – you can’t just push from one direction. If you don’t have gank/bomb squads running parallel to your zerg you are doing it wrong.

Kaa Mchorror NSP grenadier [hayt]

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Posted by: Akkeros.1675

Akkeros.1675

yeah, now better to have 5 groups of 5 then one group of 25 but still remain coordinated…
which is all fine and good but kinda less social than what i like. its no fun just having a small group in ts for hours on end (awkward silence pops its nasty head up too much) and its hard to coordinate multiple groups with a single driver talking unless they all know what to do to begin with

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Posted by: Zetsumei.4975

Zetsumei.4975

until necro boon steal might be nerfed

Necros can steal boons..

Boon corruption overbuffing; Well of corruption being 4 or 5x stronger due to heralds spamming boons every 3 seconds

Corruptions arent made stronger by increasing boon spam.. The main advantage of boon corruption is stripping the boon, the conditions in almost all cases are really nothing to get excited about not to mention it doesnt take long for them to be cleared in large scale fighting due to aoe condi clear and reduction.

The interesting corruptions are corrupting stab (into fear) and resistance(into chill which really is only interesting for small scale). The more cover boons someone has, the less likely you are to corrupt stability so spamming boons protects you from corruption of your important boons like stability.

Also.. sigh wells necros are used for their raw damage not corruption. The stability corrupting to fear is the cherry on the top.

Finally, you do realise that well of corruption corrupts one boon per pulse per player. Adding more boons ontop of that does not increase the amount of boons corrupted unless youre unaware of the amount of boon spam in large scale combat.

Please learn how to play the game before commenting on balance in the future..

Kurodaraku – Necromancer | Kuroshikon – Ranger
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia