Guild Wars 2

I know I don’t speak for many here, but I like the chance as a necro. My spectral wall is actually useful for those times I need a quick escape or when I want to separate the front from the backline. I do notice I get tossed around a bit more when I run with a guard in my party, but that is the price you pay for having my CC be much more powerful.

YMMV but I personally don’t care about a bit of ping pong when not in plague form, although foot in the grave needs fixing IMO. Solid change.

Tommyknocker.6089:

I know I don’t speak for many here, but I like the chance as a necro. My spectral wall is actually useful for those times I need a quick escape or when I want to separate the front from the backline. I do notice I get tossed around a bit more when I run with a guard in my party, but that is the price you pay for having my CC be much more powerful.

YMMV but I personally don’t care about a bit of ping pong when not in plague form, although foot in the grave needs fixing IMO. Solid change.

And this is exactly why you are not alone. This change benefits ranged play. I now play ranged on my necro/ele/engi with these changes. It’s boring long battles based on range. I played my war a few times .. and yeah I can still get in there, but gotta gtfo of dodge after a couple hits or I will die. Then I have to spend downtime waiting to re-engage when I’m able to … or see a break in the fields. Because its so much downtime it’s led to less engaging melee play and more steered towards ranged. I’m not opposed to the change, but feel CC’s should have been tweaked as well or we will just have more mexican standoffs. I do see an increase in engi’s out and about and I’m sure they are loving it as well. But melee play is just less enjoyable because battles take far longer now from ranged cautious play. Can I still melee? Yes, like a boss for very short durations. But I now have more downtime versus quick regroups. I get more uptime playing ranged. Kinda meh battles now too.

TooBz.3065:

Junkpile.7439:

Get some PvE players in your guild. Dungeons teach players some basic skills like red circle = bad.

PvE is entirely different than any kind of PvP (including WvW).

First, PvE is made up of designed encounters. That means that there is a way through every encounter, even if your not stacking and exploiting broken mechanics. There are places to stand where there are no red circles, attacks that come at regular intervals so you can recharge your endurance, etc… In a PvP environment, on the other hand, combat is dynamic. It may not be possible to avoid the red circles.

Second, PvE players don’t avoid the red circles. They stack in a corner and beat the boss senseless before a red circle can appear. Their tactics won’t work.

I’m one of those WvW-only people but… idk dude, there’s a path in Twilight Arbor where you fight big jungle wurm things and there is literally no safe place to stand. I die every kitten time.

Did it bruise the egos of the siege monkeys here to see a video of a guild so easily doing what you keep claiming was impossible? Here it is again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L91Sq1zzAQ
Permanent stability was actually possible during this time. The guild I was in actually used to run it, but we didn’t become good enough to really win hard fights until we reduced our guardian count from 3 to 2 per party and ran more dps. No one was ever being carried by stability, but scrubs now are being carried by line cc.

If Anet wanted to increase counterplay to stability they should’ve increased its boon strip priority for common aoe boon strips instead of allowing cc to counter its own counter.

By the way, if any of you siege monkeys wants to say urrrrrrrrrrrr l2p adapt or die to me, take a look at my sig. I’m a lightning rod staff ele. This new meta is brain dead easy mode for me.

robotempire.2451:

TooBz.3065:

Junkpile.7439:

Get some PvE players in your guild. Dungeons teach players some basic skills like red circle = bad.

PvE is entirely different than any kind of PvP (including WvW).

First, PvE is made up of designed encounters. That means that there is a way through every encounter, even if your not stacking and exploiting broken mechanics. There are places to stand where there are no red circles, attacks that come at regular intervals so you can recharge your endurance, etc… In a PvP environment, on the other hand, combat is dynamic. It may not be possible to avoid the red circles.

Second, PvE players don’t avoid the red circles. They stack in a corner and beat the boss senseless before a red circle can appear. Their tactics won’t work.

I’m one of those WvW-only people but… idk dude, there’s a path in Twilight Arbor where you fight big jungle wurm things and there is literally no safe place to stand. I die every kitten time.

Thats why you play full zerker meta builds in PvE to kill the stuff before it does too much damage.

Coldtart.4785:

Did it bruise the egos of the siege monkeys here to see a video of a guild so easily doing what you keep claiming was impossible? Here it is again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L91Sq1zzAQ
Permanent stability was actually possible during this time. The guild I was in actually used to run it, but we didn’t become good enough to really win hard fights until we reduced our guardian count from 3 to 2 per party and ran more dps. No one was ever being carried by stability, but scrubs now are being carried by line cc.

If Anet wanted to increase counterplay to stability they should’ve increased its boon strip priority for common aoe boon strips instead of allowing cc to counter its own counter.

By the way, if any of you siege monkeys wants to say urrrrrrrrrrrr l2p adapt or die to me, take a look at my sig. I’m a lightning rod staff ele. This new meta is brain dead easy mode for me.

Literally no good guild in existence in either EU or NA ran enough guards in 1 party to have permastab. You know why? Permastab is useless, thats why. You’re not constantly spiking with your melee. There are times where you are moving from place to place or even regrouping. The only important time to have stab is when you are engaged with the enemy melee. Its the same thing with fury. You don’t really need 2 wars per melee part for permafury because you don’t need permanent fury since you arn’t always spiking.

Coldtart.4785:

Did it bruise the egos of the siege monkeys here to see a video of a guild so easily doing what you keep claiming was impossible? Here it is again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L91Sq1zzAQ
Permanent stability was actually possible during this time. The guild I was in actually used to run it, but we didn’t become good enough to really win hard fights until we reduced our guardian count from 3 to 2 per party and ran more dps. No one was ever being carried by stability, but scrubs now are being carried by line cc.

If Anet wanted to increase counterplay to stability they should’ve increased its boon strip priority for common aoe boon strips instead of allowing cc to counter its own counter.

By the way, if any of you siege monkeys wants to say urrrrrrrrrrrr l2p adapt or die to me, take a look at my sig. I’m a lightning rod staff ele. This new meta is brain dead easy mode for me.

I don’t really get what are you trying to say. This just show how op stability was. They got big zerg defending and crappy bigger blob did still run through choke point like nothing.

rainisword.7860:

Coldtart.4785:

Did it bruise the egos of the siege monkeys here to see a video of a guild so easily doing what you keep claiming was impossible? Here it is again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L91Sq1zzAQ
Permanent stability was actually possible during this time. The guild I was in actually used to run it, but we didn’t become good enough to really win hard fights until we reduced our guardian count from 3 to 2 per party and ran more dps. No one was ever being carried by stability, but scrubs now are being carried by line cc.

If Anet wanted to increase counterplay to stability they should’ve increased its boon strip priority for common aoe boon strips instead of allowing cc to counter its own counter.

By the way, if any of you siege monkeys wants to say urrrrrrrrrrrr l2p adapt or die to me, take a look at my sig. I’m a lightning rod staff ele. This new meta is brain dead easy mode for me.

Literally no good guild in existence in either EU or NA ran enough guards in 1 party to have permastab. You know why? Permastab is useless, thats why. You’re not constantly spiking with your melee. There are times where you are moving from place to place or even regrouping. The only important time to have stab is when you are engaged with the enemy melee. Its the same thing with fury. You don’t really need 2 wars per melee part for permafury because you don’t need permanent fury since you arn’t always spiking.

You lost me at the point you claimed permanent stability as useless.

dancingmonkey.4902:

rainisword.7860:

Coldtart.4785:

Did it bruise the egos of the siege monkeys here to see a video of a guild so easily doing what you keep claiming was impossible? Here it is again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L91Sq1zzAQ
Permanent stability was actually possible during this time. The guild I was in actually used to run it, but we didn’t become good enough to really win hard fights until we reduced our guardian count from 3 to 2 per party and ran more dps. No one was ever being carried by stability, but scrubs now are being carried by line cc.

If Anet wanted to increase counterplay to stability they should’ve increased its boon strip priority for common aoe boon strips instead of allowing cc to counter its own counter.

By the way, if any of you siege monkeys wants to say urrrrrrrrrrrr l2p adapt or die to me, take a look at my sig. I’m a lightning rod staff ele. This new meta is brain dead easy mode for me.

Literally no good guild in existence in either EU or NA ran enough guards in 1 party to have permastab. You know why? Permastab is useless, thats why. You’re not constantly spiking with your melee. There are times where you are moving from place to place or even regrouping. The only important time to have stab is when you are engaged with the enemy melee. Its the same thing with fury. You don’t really need 2 wars per melee part for permafury because you don’t need permanent fury since you arn’t always spiking.

You lost me at the point you claimed permanent stability as useless.

Why? He explained why immediately after.

Even with the old boon duration runes running 3 guards per party was a waste of limited spots, other class compositions were better.

100% stability uptime was never something top guilds actually used.

I never suggested stacking guardians was the way to go. I am suggesting that claiming permanent stability as “useless” was unreasonable hyperbole.

dancingmonkey.4902:

rainisword.7860:

Coldtart.4785:

Did it bruise the egos of the siege monkeys here to see a video of a guild so easily doing what you keep claiming was impossible? Here it is again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L91Sq1zzAQ
Permanent stability was actually possible during this time. The guild I was in actually used to run it, but we didn’t become good enough to really win hard fights until we reduced our guardian count from 3 to 2 per party and ran more dps. No one was ever being carried by stability, but scrubs now are being carried by line cc.

If Anet wanted to increase counterplay to stability they should’ve increased its boon strip priority for common aoe boon strips instead of allowing cc to counter its own counter.

By the way, if any of you siege monkeys wants to say urrrrrrrrrrrr l2p adapt or die to me, take a look at my sig. I’m a lightning rod staff ele. This new meta is brain dead easy mode for me.

Literally no good guild in existence in either EU or NA ran enough guards in 1 party to have permastab. You know why? Permastab is useless, thats why. You’re not constantly spiking with your melee. There are times where you are moving from place to place or even regrouping. The only important time to have stab is when you are engaged with the enemy melee. Its the same thing with fury. You don’t really need 2 wars per melee part for permafury because you don’t need permanent fury since you arn’t always spiking.

You lost me at the point you claimed permanent stability as useless.

I just told to you why it is lol. Ive been in probably 1000 open field fights in this game. You don’t need stability when you are 1200 from the enemy and regrouping. You don’t need it when you are single targeting a ranged. Only when you are on the melee.

It is not required at all for that matter. It is simply extremely helpful. In my experience, skills such as engineers magnet disagree with you in relation to its value at 1200 range.

That aside, I feel some of the skills need some kind of adjustment. Perhaps raise the stacks slightly or cap how many stab stack skills like slick shoes or static field can strip. I say that as a suggestion to a happy medium.

Kicast.1459:

Sorry to look a little rude but be aware that pve skill reqirement is the level 0 on the skill meter in gw2.

We’re talking here about ppl who (obviously, otherwise they would stop whining) needed the old stab to kill unorganized “randoms/publics” in wvw … that pretty much equals level 0.

Thank god this game isn’t balanced around what the average wvw player considers “good combat”.

rainisword.7860:

Seeing a lot of comments here on the forums about how WvW is unplayable and the stability ruined everything. The only bad side ive seen about stability stacks so far is that it makes everything laggier because its extra numbers the server has to keep track of.

So far ive only seen that changes affect big pug blob fights. They are complete pirate ships now for the most part. I haven’t seen organized groups have much to any trouble with this at all actually. It requires more attentiveness for the melee on their stacks and their surrounding cc’s but thats about it.

This is probably one of the biggest changes that can really shake up the meta for WvW and people are already qqing about really silly things after 2 days. Give it time, watch the meta evolve, oh, and L2P.

So…now can u wipe out whole blob(60) with zerg(20)? U CAN’T. Why? Cos of massive cc and stabil spam – zergs and guilds can’t do a kitten to avoid it, and then they get flooded by 30 mt when they have 20 ppl( including mt and papers). And that is the point of ppl. I don’t give a kitten about zerg vs zegr cos u can have lot of strategies, but against blob…nothing work even stacking 25 stacks of stabil for leader. Also before patch u could wipe blob with zerg. So it isn;t about L2P like all u ppters say. It is about numbers, that is all.

Osu.6307:

Yeah, stab only wrecks the gameplay of melee builds, so you are right, it is not really a big deal.

And we all like ranged kiting so much right? ….

Osu.6307:

Yeah, stab only wrecks the gameplay of melee builds, so you are right, it is not really a big deal.

Yeah, so due to changes no1 play meele now ;D today we had 10 mt and 50 papers or range builds for warriors and guards And the whole thing was about running next to each other while bombing for 30 mins when enemy mt got closer we just spammed em with hundreds of ccs and they had to rush back, and this repeated every 0,5 min

Stability can now be countered by the one mechanic it was made to counter. Explain how that is even remotely good.

Coldtart.4785:

Stability can now be countered by the one mechanic it was made to counter. Explain how that is even remotely good.

Truer words have not been said.

Coldtart.4785:

Stability can now be countered by the one mechanic it was made to counter. Explain how that is even remotely good.

That’s actually an inaccurate assessment. Stability still stops some amount of cc, it has just become a soft counter instead of a hard counter. Really CC can’t “counter” stability given that stability has no other effect. In fact using no cc at all would also “counter” stability by giving it no purpose.

As for the actual change, maybe people will make use of other mechanics a little more. Specifically I remember people complaining about the standoffs and thinking that a few engis or thieves can just yank people in for killing (stealth an engi, have them magnet someone, given the target can’t see the engi they have no real way of avoiding it).

In a 20v20 situation if you can just yank 5 people flat on their faces and slaughter them, you would just win right there. Against bigger, often disorganized, zergs pulling a few of them in will likely cause them to charge or try to save the dead, which again gives you a huge advantage. The stealth and magnet is a common spvp tactic, may be time for WvW groups to start using it.

Sixes.5824:

Coldtart.4785:

Stability can now be countered by the one mechanic it was made to counter. Explain how that is even remotely good.

That’s actually an inaccurate assessment. Stability still stops some amount of cc, it has just become a soft counter instead of a hard counter. Really CC can’t “counter” stability given that stability has no other effect. In fact using no cc at all would also “counter” stability by giving it no purpose.

As for the actual change, maybe people will make use of other mechanics a little more. Specifically I remember people complaining about the standoffs and thinking that a few engis or thieves can just yank people in for killing (stealth an engi, have them magnet someone, given the target can’t see the engi they have no real way of avoiding it).

In a 20v20 situation if you can just yank 5 people flat on their faces and slaughter them, you would just win right there. Against bigger, often disorganized, zergs pulling a few of them in will likely cause them to charge or try to save the dead, which again gives you a huge advantage. The stealth and magnet is a common spvp tactic, may be time for WvW groups to start using it.

That’s effectively ganking. Blob chipping sounds like a good idea… but also sounds terribly time consuming having to kill a few people at a time and plus if a zerg decides to swoop in they are going to drop their AoE all over you.

Coldtart.4785:

Stability can now be countered by the one mechanic it was made to counter. Explain how that is even remotely good.

Are you suggesting stability doesn’t counter CC now? It absolutely does. It simply has a more reasonable limit now.

I could reasonably see some CCs needing to be limited with a cap on how many stacks it can effect or adding to the stab stacks on some of the stab skills perhaps. To find a middle ground.

It’s easy to adjust to the meta. That’s not what most players’ issues are. It’s that the new meta is a shadow of the old one in terms of fun, excitement and tension. The hammertrain GWEN meta was flawed, but definitely more enjoyable than the Pirate Ship one. And this is from someone with a necro main.

It feels like being back in the old unorganized WvW days of 2012, when nobody really had any idea how to run a proper comp. EXCEPT we have much fewer players now, so it’s even more boring.

blakdoxa.7520:

That’s effectively ganking. Blob chipping sounds like a good idea… but also sounds terribly time consuming having to kill a few people at a time and plus if a zerg decides to swoop in they are going to drop their AoE all over you.

Well, if you are in a 20v20 guild situation, you really only need to do it once to 4-5 people, that’s not super time consuming.

As for the zergs, causing them to swoop is exactly the point. When they charge, you AoE and CC better than they do and kite them back a little, by which point the average blob will be 30% dead and have burned a ton of cooldowns. Then you ca counter attack.

I think the main issue with the plan is that some of the elite guilds think there are only 4 classes in the game.

Sixes.5824:

blakdoxa.7520:

That’s effectively ganking. Blob chipping sounds like a good idea… but also sounds terribly time consuming having to kill a few people at a time and plus if a zerg decides to swoop in they are going to drop their AoE all over you.

Well, if you are in a 20v20 guild situation, you really only need to do it once to 4-5 people, that’s not super time consuming.

As for the zergs, causing them to swoop is exactly the point. When they charge, you AoE and CC better than they do and kite them back a little, by which point the average blob will be 30% dead and have burned a ton of cooldowns. Then you ca counter attack.

I think the main issue with the plan is that some of the elite guilds think there are only 4 classes in the game.

4 classes?!WTF man?! Actually all classes are usefull – expect rangers, they can’t do a kitten. But no1 want to play them Cos Who would want to play engi without any survi skill against blobs and die instantly? Answer is no1! The only playable classes at wvw are guard, warrior, necro, ele, thief, mesmer. Also watch out TA vs LAG gvg They show very very good how pirate ship meta is boring and time taking. It isn’t about 4-5 pushes, it is about 20 pushes or more agianst skilled guilds. The main issue is about good kitten balance of cc skills over stabillity and blobbing against zergs. U can;t do anything as zerg againt blob now. Why? They just over spam u with ccs and stabillity stacks so u wouldn’t be able to do anything.

So you purposefully dismiss some of the higher range AoE classes, and then complain you can’t deal with large numbers without them getting all kinds of cc on you …

Ok.

Sixes.5824:

So you purposefully dismiss some of the higher range AoE classes, and then complain you can’t deal with large numbers without them getting all kinds of cc on you …

Ok.

Emmmm what?! Ranger is a higher range AoE? He just have 1 AoE skill from LB and that is all lol While necro for example have tons of em Also i wrote that u can easly kil blob, but as long as long they don’t spam ccs just imagine, 10 lanes of warding when u push and whole group don;t hvae stabillity, same goes for statics etc. Also what does ranger have good if we compare it with necro? And read my comment again I wrote that only rnager is out, rest is good, but no1 want to play engi for example

Stability is having a boat in the sea of cc. Now your boat has patched-up holes and it’s sinking fast.

coglin.1867:

Coldtart.4785:

Stability can now be countered by the one mechanic it was made to counter. Explain how that is even remotely good.

Are you suggesting stability doesn’t counter CC now? It absolutely does. It simply has a more reasonable limit now.

I could reasonably see some CCs needing to be limited with a cap on how many stacks it can effect or adding to the stab stacks on some of the stab skills perhaps. To find a middle ground.

There is no middle ground. Even if you have 25 stacks of stability, enough line spamming makes it no different to if you had zero.

Coldtart.4785:

There is no middle ground. Even if you have 25 stacks of stability, enough line spamming makes it no different to if you had zero.

It’s almost like what the people carrying CC abilities had to put up with for two years – even if you delivered 25 targeted CCs it was no different than if you’d fired 0.

The Wheel turns.

Nike.2631:

Coldtart.4785:

There is no middle ground. Even if you have 25 stacks of stability, enough line spamming makes it no different to if you had zero.

It’s almost like what the people carrying CC abilities had to put up with for two years – even if you delivered 25 targeted CCs it was no different than if you’d fired 0.

The Wheel turns.

The wheel turns and we end up exchanging one problem for another problem. Since stab is useless in large scale fights better scrub your builds and go all-out-dps/CC.

Kasteros.9847:

Sixes.5824:

So you purposefully dismiss some of the higher range AoE classes, and then complain you can’t deal with large numbers without them getting all kinds of cc on you …

Ok.

Emmmm what?! Ranger is a higher range AoE? He just have 1 AoE skill from LB and that is all lol While necro for example have tons of em Also i wrote that u can easly kil blob, but as long as long they don’t spam ccs just imagine, 10 lanes of warding when u push and whole group don;t hvae stabillity, same goes for statics etc. Also what does ranger have good if we compare it with necro? And read my comment again I wrote that only rnager is out, rest is good, but no1 want to play engi for example

Engi has high Aoe, like crazy high. And engi has incredible cc, both single target and AoE, add to that the 3 second invulnerability in a pinch, the fact that grenades have 1500 range and can lead targets and the magnet to start things off … if people don’t want to play them that’s their fault.

I would have thought all these supposed elite players would love to pick up one of the highest skill caps (having every attack be ground targeted with a lead time makes it a lot more skillful to land than a stability hammer train).

So I don’t feel too sorry for people whining about the fact that they lost their stability spam, which is not particularly skillful and shuts down all CC across the board for relatively little cost. Now they might have to actually learn to kite, because if you are using AoE at max range, pulling from stealth and backing off when the blob gets close, not only does half the blob do nothing (the melee, the thiefs etc) but almost no CC can reach you.

The mass of CC is a big issue when you run in head first and let the opponents pop all the short ranged CC (and there is lots of that). Instead, try not charging in using stability as a crutch.

Coldtart.4785:

coglin.1867:

Coldtart.4785:

Stability can now be countered by the one mechanic it was made to counter. Explain how that is even remotely good.

Are you suggesting stability doesn’t counter CC now? It absolutely does. It simply has a more reasonable limit now.

I could reasonably see some CCs needing to be limited with a cap on how many stacks it can effect or adding to the stab stacks on some of the stab skills perhaps. To find a middle ground.

There is no middle ground. Even if you have 25 stacks of stability, enough line spamming makes it no different to if you had zero.

Yep we stacked our comm to 25 stacks, this gave nothing cos they overthrowed us with ccs. So our comm swapped to necro and is leading as necro now. As for necros they have only 1 stack of stabil for 1 skill and 3 stacks of stabil if DS traited, this is serious issue, since 1 hammer warrior can totally crush him.

Sixes.5824:

Kasteros.9847:

Sixes.5824:

So you purposefully dismiss some of the higher range AoE classes, and then complain you can’t deal with large numbers without them getting all kinds of cc on you …

Ok.

Emmmm what?! Ranger is a higher range AoE? He just have 1 AoE skill from LB and that is all lol While necro for example have tons of em Also i wrote that u can easly kil blob, but as long as long they don’t spam ccs just imagine, 10 lanes of warding when u push and whole group don;t hvae stabillity, same goes for statics etc. Also what does ranger have good if we compare it with necro? And read my comment again I wrote that only rnager is out, rest is good, but no1 want to play engi for example

Engi has high Aoe, like crazy high. And engi has incredible cc, both single target and AoE, add to that the 3 second invulnerability in a pinch, the fact that grenades have 1500 range and can lead targets and the magnet to start things off … if people don’t want to play them that’s their fault.

I would have thought all these supposed elite players would love to pick up one of the highest skill caps (having every attack be ground targeted with a lead time makes it a lot more skillful to land than a stability hammer train).

So I don’t feel too sorry for people whining about the fact that they lost their stability spam, which is not particularly skillful and shuts down all CC across the board for relatively little cost. Now they might have to actually learn to kite, because if you are using AoE at max range, pulling from stealth and backing off when the blob gets close, not only does half the blob do nothing (the melee, the thiefs etc) but almost no CC can reach you.

The mass of CC is a big issue when you run in head first and let the opponents pop all the short ranged CC (and there is lots of that). Instead, try not charging in using stability as a crutch.

There’s no stability spam whatsoever, unless your running some crazy comp with 5 guardians in a group which is next to useless.

Apparently you don’t know the distinction between soft and hard cc.

Stealth pulling has got to be the to most ridiculous idea I’ve seen to try and fish out a zerg. Gank compositions were made to take out overextenders and break down a backline but those worked on a small scale. For large scale blobs trying to pinch out a few people at time is likely going to have no effect. Also how many people play thief or engies in WvW lol! Not nearly enough.

Sixes.5824:

Kasteros.9847:

Sixes.5824:

So you purposefully dismiss some of the higher range AoE classes, and then complain you can’t deal with large numbers without them getting all kinds of cc on you …

Ok.

Emmmm what?! Ranger is a higher range AoE? He just have 1 AoE skill from LB and that is all lol While necro for example have tons of em Also i wrote that u can easly kil blob, but as long as long they don’t spam ccs just imagine, 10 lanes of warding when u push and whole group don;t hvae stabillity, same goes for statics etc. Also what does ranger have good if we compare it with necro? And read my comment again I wrote that only rnager is out, rest is good, but no1 want to play engi for example

Engi has high Aoe, like crazy high. And engi has incredible cc, both single target and AoE, add to that the 3 second invulnerability in a pinch, the fact that grenades have 1500 range and can lead targets and the magnet to start things off … if people don’t want to play them that’s their fault.

I would have thought all these supposed elite players would love to pick up one of the highest skill caps (having every attack be ground targeted with a lead time makes it a lot more skillful to land than a stability hammer train).

So I don’t feel too sorry for people whining about the fact that they lost their stability spam, which is not particularly skillful and shuts down all CC across the board for relatively little cost. Now they might have to actually learn to kite, because if you are using AoE at max range, pulling from stealth and backing off when the blob gets close, not only does half the blob do nothing (the melee, the thiefs etc) but almost no CC can reach you.

The mass of CC is a big issue when you run in head first and let the opponents pop all the short ranged CC (and there is lots of that). Instead, try not charging in using stability as a crutch.

So u say that CC spam is better than stabillity spam? They just keep abusing new system by blobing up ccs now. With this diffrence that blobs do it now against zergs not otherwise.

As i wrote, we were kiting in a place rushing with stab “balls deep” and u know what? They just rushed us with mt and spammed with ccs all around us – just 5 eles could took out our stabillity, add guards, warriors to that and u get 0 stabil stacks during clash. It really isn’t about skill man, TRY just try to understand that. Now numbers win over skill. Cos it doesn’t matter how skilled u are, u just can’t avoid all this cc kitten that blob throw at ur zerg.

And yes engi is op as hell, but the problem is taht no1 want to play him cos of simple stuff:
1. u see engi u focus him
2. engi don’t have survi skills like other classes – even necro has DS while engi only elixir S which give him 3 sec of invul – not against condis tho and then bah u get dagger for 9k.
3. This need skill – some players are too dull to play him
4. He still isn’t as much usefull as necro, yes he can throw lot of aoes, but how many aoe u throw before u get killed by retaliation?

Kasteros.9847:

3. This need skill – some players are too dull to play him

There you go. That could also explain why these same dull players can’t find a way to play around a needed change in balance instead of crying on the forums.

Stab issue effects manipulation/shatter mesmers pretty bad…

Arcane Thievery is the main skill caught out by the change, no longer can you soft CC a ranger into using his ult to steal 20s uptime of stab/fury/swiftness… Now its a short 2-3s worth of stab, same goes for tryin the same thing on necro elites

Null Field is just as useless too…. you cant strip them of boons as with changes to elites they just restack, with null field stripping stability at the same rate it’s applied, it’s completely redundant unless you use it for condition removal only

I’ll start by saying I am a well known wvw player on a NA T1 server, and have been in T1 exclusively for more than a year. It really kittenes me off to see people claiming that the stab changes promote higher skill play. From everything I have seen, these are people who are casual at best in wvw though I suspect most do not participate in any organised wvw at all. Stability is not a wonder boon nor was it a press to win button before the patch. What stability is, is a boon that enables organised groups to include a purposeful frontline. It requires party discipline to maintain stability for even a 40-50% up time during fights. Like every other boon, stability is vulnerable to boon stripping skills such as necro’s corrupt boon and mesmer’s null field. Stability also does nothing to counter movement inhibiting conditions such as chill, cripple, and immobilize and the recent changes have not done anything to remove these vulnerabilities. These changes in wvw have fundamentally changed the play style of the game mode, which is not inherently bad, but what we have now is quite simply not nearly as fun as what we had before. Smaller groups of players are now forced to join the map zerg because they do not have a reasonable chance of doing anything but get run over now if they encounter a larger enemy group. I understand that with the expansion coming there is an expectation of added utility that may affect the issues wvw is faced with after this recent patch, such as the introduction of the boon resistance and a new heavy class. But it makes no sense to begin introducing nerfs now while withholding the balances until a later date. GW2 is a game that I love and I relish the time I am able to spend in wvw. This most recent update has significantly disrupted how myself and those like me get enjoyment from the game and I truly hope something will be done to fix the problem soon.

Although I havent supported the change, for various reasons and I have called it for what it is a nerf plain and simple, not a balance change. After being in tons of fights since I can say on the positive side it has been fun watching guild groups dropping like flies because they can no longer stack and abuse stability.

We may have some of the pirateship meta now, but before we had what I call the
“Staredown meta” where groups just basically stacked stability and faked pushes, going back and forth trying to get the enemy group to blow their cds before attacking, which was really boring as hell and could just go on forever.

Basically whats done is done, just have to adapt and get on with it, many of us dont like it but try to make the best of it at least.

Nike.2631:

Coldtart.4785:

There is no middle ground. Even if you have 25 stacks of stability, enough line spamming makes it no different to if you had zero.

It’s almost like what the people carrying CC abilities had to put up with for two years – even if you delivered 25 targeted CCs it was no different than if you’d fired 0.

The Wheel turns.

2 days before the patch I static’d EP because as has been said innumerable times there is no permanent stability.

Kasteros.9847:

rainisword.7860:

Seeing a lot of comments here on the forums about how WvW is unplayable and the stability ruined everything. The only bad side ive seen about stability stacks so far is that it makes everything laggier because its extra numbers the server has to keep track of.

So far ive only seen that changes affect big pug blob fights. They are complete pirate ships now for the most part. I haven’t seen organized groups have much to any trouble with this at all actually. It requires more attentiveness for the melee on their stacks and their surrounding cc’s but thats about it.

This is probably one of the biggest changes that can really shake up the meta for WvW and people are already qqing about really silly things after 2 days. Give it time, watch the meta evolve, oh, and L2P.

So…now can u wipe out whole blob(60) with zerg(20)? U CAN’T. Why? Cos of massive cc and stabil spam – zergs and guilds can’t do a kitten to avoid it, and then they get flooded by 30 mt when they have 20 ppl( including mt and papers). And that is the point of ppl. I don’t give a kitten about zerg vs zegr cos u can have lot of strategies, but against blob…nothing work even stacking 25 stacks of stabil for leader. Also before patch u could wipe blob with zerg. So it isn;t about L2P like all u ppters say. It is about numbers, that is all.

Numbers? I disagree. My guild has been running a 3 man roaming comp that’s pretty OP. We’ve been wiping 10-15 ppl in 10-15 v 3 of us consistently. And we even wiped a zerg of 20 or so SoS with just 6 of us (5 guildies and 1 pug).

Here’s a vid. I’m the ele in it. And no, there were no up levels except for one. We’re just a serious fight guild that tpvps and duels a lot.

Fights like this are quite common for us. We enjoy it, even after the “stab” changes. We really don’t see that much of a difference. So yeah, it’s a l2p issue.

One thing can also be a good idea though, even if this is an big meta change. But maybe if arenanet has time and are willing to do it, making special WvW meta changes. To keep people busy making new builds and letting them grow and adapt to more and newer strategies, in a sense making this part way more dynamic.

Lettuce.2945:

Kasteros.9847:

rainisword.7860:

Seeing a lot of comments here on the forums about how WvW is unplayable and the stability ruined everything. The only bad side ive seen about stability stacks so far is that it makes everything laggier because its extra numbers the server has to keep track of.

So far ive only seen that changes affect big pug blob fights. They are complete pirate ships now for the most part. I haven’t seen organized groups have much to any trouble with this at all actually. It requires more attentiveness for the melee on their stacks and their surrounding cc’s but thats about it.

This is probably one of the biggest changes that can really shake up the meta for WvW and people are already qqing about really silly things after 2 days. Give it time, watch the meta evolve, oh, and L2P.

So…now can u wipe out whole blob(60) with zerg(20)? U CAN’T. Why? Cos of massive cc and stabil spam – zergs and guilds can’t do a kitten to avoid it, and then they get flooded by 30 mt when they have 20 ppl( including mt and papers). And that is the point of ppl. I don’t give a kitten about zerg vs zegr cos u can have lot of strategies, but against blob…nothing work even stacking 25 stacks of stabil for leader. Also before patch u could wipe blob with zerg. So it isn;t about L2P like all u ppters say. It is about numbers, that is all.

Numbers? I disagree. My guild has been running a 3 man roaming comp that’s pretty OP. We’ve been wiping 10-15 ppl in 10-15 v 3 of us consistently. And we even wiped a zerg of 20 or so SoS with just 6 of us (5 guildies and 1 pug).

Here’s a vid. I’m the ele in it. And no, there were no up levels except for one. We’re just a serious fight guild that tpvps and duels a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bdm-WvaMtI

Fights like this are quite common for us. We enjoy it, even after the “stab” changes. We really don’t see that much of a difference. So yeah, it’s a l2p issue.

I havd watched your video and i saw 6 of u against 10 ppl who:
1. Didn’t really know waht to do
2. U killed em pvp meta – 1 by 1 which is imposible against blob. Also readit up again i wrote about zerg vs blob not some roaming party k*tten u fight by killing 1 every rush…
3. They didn’t even fought u as group they were totall randoms as i saw
4. Talk when u engage blob with 20 ppl and wipe it out then i will trust u that numbers doesn’t matter or just come with ur 6 ppl against my 15 kan guild we will seemif numbers doesn’t matter

Lettuce.2945:

Kasteros.9847:

rainisword.7860:

Seeing a lot of comments here on the forums about how WvW is unplayable and the stability ruined everything. The only bad side ive seen about stability stacks so far is that it makes everything laggier because its extra numbers the server has to keep track of.

So far ive only seen that changes affect big pug blob fights. They are complete pirate ships now for the most part. I haven’t seen organized groups have much to any trouble with this at all actually. It requires more attentiveness for the melee on their stacks and their surrounding cc’s but thats about it.

This is probably one of the biggest changes that can really shake up the meta for WvW and people are already qqing about really silly things after 2 days. Give it time, watch the meta evolve, oh, and L2P.

So…now can u wipe out whole blob(60) with zerg(20)? U CAN’T. Why? Cos of massive cc and stabil spam – zergs and guilds can’t do a kitten to avoid it, and then they get flooded by 30 mt when they have 20 ppl( including mt and papers). And that is the point of ppl. I don’t give a kitten about zerg vs zegr cos u can have lot of strategies, but against blob…nothing work even stacking 25 stacks of stabil for leader. Also before patch u could wipe blob with zerg. So it isn;t about L2P like all u ppters say. It is about numbers, that is all.

Numbers? I disagree. My guild has been running a 3 man roaming comp that’s pretty OP. We’ve been wiping 10-15 ppl in 10-15 v 3 of us consistently. And we even wiped a zerg of 20 or so SoS with just 6 of us (5 guildies and 1 pug).

Here’s a vid. I’m the ele in it. And no, there were no up levels except for one. We’re just a serious fight guild that tpvps and duels a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bdm-WvaMtI

Fights like this are quite common for us. We enjoy it, even after the “stab” changes. We really don’t see that much of a difference. So yeah, it’s a l2p issue.

This is a joke right? Video shows you 3 man vrs 6-10 of the worst players ever. Both their play and WvW ranks show this must be one of the first times they have played wvw. There are almost no complaints of the stab changes in small settings like this but rather the complaints are when both sides has 20+.
Irrelevant video is irrelevant.

Sorel.4870:

Kasteros.9847:

3. This need skill – some players are too dull to play him

There you go. That could also explain why these same dull players can’t find a way to play around a needed change in balance instead of crying on the forums.

Yep, that’s what I was driving at.

There are solutions, they don’t involve charging headfirst into the zerg.

To be fair though, this meta will be short lived regardless given HoT is going to change a whole lot.

Ballads.2509:

Lettuce.2945:

Kasteros.9847:

rainisword.7860:

Seeing a lot of comments here on the forums about how WvW is unplayable and the stability ruined everything. The only bad side ive seen about stability stacks so far is that it makes everything laggier because its extra numbers the server has to keep track of.

So far ive only seen that changes affect big pug blob fights. They are complete pirate ships now for the most part. I haven’t seen organized groups have much to any trouble with this at all actually. It requires more attentiveness for the melee on their stacks and their surrounding cc’s but thats about it.

This is probably one of the biggest changes that can really shake up the meta for WvW and people are already qqing about really silly things after 2 days. Give it time, watch the meta evolve, oh, and L2P.

So…now can u wipe out whole blob(60) with zerg(20)? U CAN’T. Why? Cos of massive cc and stabil spam – zergs and guilds can’t do a kitten to avoid it, and then they get flooded by 30 mt when they have 20 ppl( including mt and papers). And that is the point of ppl. I don’t give a kitten about zerg vs zegr cos u can have lot of strategies, but against blob…nothing work even stacking 25 stacks of stabil for leader. Also before patch u could wipe blob with zerg. So it isn;t about L2P like all u ppters say. It is about numbers, that is all.

Numbers? I disagree. My guild has been running a 3 man roaming comp that’s pretty OP. We’ve been wiping 10-15 ppl in 10-15 v 3 of us consistently. And we even wiped a zerg of 20 or so SoS with just 6 of us (5 guildies and 1 pug).

Here’s a vid. I’m the ele in it. And no, there were no up levels except for one. We’re just a serious fight guild that tpvps and duels a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bdm-WvaMtI

Fights like this are quite common for us. We enjoy it, even after the “stab” changes. We really don’t see that much of a difference. So yeah, it’s a l2p issue.

This is a joke right? Video shows you 3 man vrs 6-10 of the worst players ever. Both their play and WvW ranks show this must be one of the first times they have played wvw. There are almost no complaints of the stab changes in small settings like this but rather the complaints are when both sides has 20+.
Irrelevant video is irrelevant.

Thanks for proving that you didn’t even watch vid. “Video shows you 3 man vs 6-10 of worse players ever”.

It’s 6 v 20. :P I believe I specifically said that as well. Obvious troll is obvious troll. And kasteros…Stay a pve hero. Or back up those words and duel any one of us in our guild. You’ll get rekt 100-0 by every single one of us.

The Stab changes make it more difficult to deal with CC’s but plenty of guilds have found a way to counter the changes and still be succesful. It sounds like many people complaining about this change in stab have done nothing to try and counter it, except come onto these forums and complain. You just can’t mindless jump into a pile pugs anymore, spamming you’re auto attacks and expect to have success. Your melee and casters have to much more aware of cleansing. Warrior warhorn 4 anyone, for example??? Baiting out dmg/cc first before your big push, has generally been utilized by most decent guilds and works wonders with the new change in stability.

Plenty of guilds in t2 have already adapted to this change and are still blowing up pug zergs. Party composition has changed some but more so, positioning and timing are far more crucial. Timing your leaps, stability rotations, cleanses etc has become a bit more challenging.

What I don’t see in this thread or the other thread is people stating what they have changed to deal with this new challange and if it has worked or not. Most of what I see is just complaining. Pretty sure that this complaining about stability changes won’t help you or your guild properly adapt. Guilds such as FUN, BMO, HYMM and others have adapted pretty well so its possible kiddos. You just have to do more than complain.

So, what have people tried to counter this change?

Sixes.5824:

Sorel.4870:

Kasteros.9847:

3. This need skill – some players are too dull to play him

There you go. That could also explain why these same dull players can’t find a way to play around a needed change in balance instead of crying on the forums.

Yep, that’s what I was driving at.

There are solutions, they don’t involve charging headfirst into the zerg.

To be fair though, this meta will be short lived regardless given HoT is going to change a whole lot.

Man but the point is that player know how to play and they don’t rush headfirst but when u kite u die against blob cos of range cc spam form guardian, eles. Everyone know how to play new meta with this new stabil, but this don’t work against blob, actually nothing work against blobs – only other lbob can do something

Lettuce.2945:

Ballads.2509:

Lettuce.2945:

Kasteros.9847:

rainisword.7860:

Seeing a lot of comments here on the forums about how WvW is unplayable and the stability ruined everything. The only bad side ive seen about stability stacks so far is that it makes everything laggier because its extra numbers the server has to keep track of.

So far ive only seen that changes affect big pug blob fights. They are complete pirate ships now for the most part. I haven’t seen organized groups have much to any trouble with this at all actually. It requires more attentiveness for the melee on their stacks and their surrounding cc’s but thats about it.

This is probably one of the biggest changes that can really shake up the meta for WvW and people are already qqing about really silly things after 2 days. Give it time, watch the meta evolve, oh, and L2P.

So…now can u wipe out whole blob(60) with zerg(20)? U CAN’T. Why? Cos of massive cc and stabil spam – zergs and guilds can’t do a kitten to avoid it, and then they get flooded by 30 mt when they have 20 ppl( including mt and papers). And that is the point of ppl. I don’t give a kitten about zerg vs zegr cos u can have lot of strategies, but against blob…nothing work even stacking 25 stacks of stabil for leader. Also before patch u could wipe blob with zerg. So it isn;t about L2P like all u ppters say. It is about numbers, that is all.

Numbers? I disagree. My guild has been running a 3 man roaming comp that’s pretty OP. We’ve been wiping 10-15 ppl in 10-15 v 3 of us consistently. And we even wiped a zerg of 20 or so SoS with just 6 of us (5 guildies and 1 pug).

Here’s a vid. I’m the ele in it. And no, there were no up levels except for one. We’re just a serious fight guild that tpvps and duels a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bdm-WvaMtI

Fights like this are quite common for us. We enjoy it, even after the “stab” changes. We really don’t see that much of a difference. So yeah, it’s a l2p issue.

This is a joke right? Video shows you 3 man vrs 6-10 of the worst players ever. Both their play and WvW ranks show this must be one of the first times they have played wvw. There are almost no complaints of the stab changes in small settings like this but rather the complaints are when both sides has 20+.
Irrelevant video is irrelevant.

Thanks for proving that you didn’t even watch vid. “Video shows you 3 man vs 6-10 of worse players ever”.

It’s 6 v 20. :P I believe I specifically said that as well. Obvious troll is obvious troll. And kasteros…Stay a pve hero. Or back up those words and duel any one of us in our guild. You’ll get rekt 100-0 by every single one of us.

1. of all I play wvw for 3 years, 2. i fought TA, LaG, vE and maaaaaany otehr gvg guilds and wiped em so ur are much more pve player here . I counted them there was 9 of them, 9! not 20 lololol. Or u count pets and clones too? Also their ranks…from 20 to 100? They don’t even know the thing wtf? Also why to duel u? As i said I’m guild player and I play with group lol so yeah we can meet ur group against my group – raid numbers. Not some pvp kitten like duels And to the end. 5 ppl more isn’t much, we wipe 25-30 ppl guilds withotu 18-22 but the thing is about 40 ppl mroe than u have then thsi is a problem So go to ur 5 vs 5 point captures and sho sho.

When rangers got buffed many people were playing them but other people adapted as well with reflects. How long did it take rangers to realize wall of reflection was a skill? Some still have no idea but as a whole they have gotten a lot better. People just need to adapt.