Guild Wars 2

Kanenas.4906:

Could you please tell me how you remove conditions? With P/D and shortbow?
And do not say Pain Response, please. I wait some serious arguments from you.

Perhaps he could give us a link to a video of his play. That would help settle this little debate.

So, Jitters, up to that challenge? Let us watch you and let us decide for ourselves.

Kanenas.4906:

Could you please tell me how you remove conditions? With P/D and shortbow?
And do not say Pain Response, please. I wait some serious arguments from you.

Sigils could be doing some of the work for him. I frequently run Generosity but that is still pretty limited. One necro SoS, a half decent Epidemic, a Corrupt Boon at the right time or any condi-Engi can stack way more than I can rip off even with Shadow Return, Generosity and Shadow’s Embrace.

Jitters.9401:

Kanenas.4906:

Jitters.9401:

zip

So, you say you survive the current condition meta with only 2 condition removal skills (if traited)? One at 40 sec CD and the other at 60? Cool story bro.

That said I believe that the D/P set needs to brought down a bit. The blind finisher at 5 is not needed.

You need to not just l2p, but maybe a l2read as well. I primarily shortbow.

But seriously..

1)Just because you cannot understand how to play a style does not mean it is not viable. It means you need to l2p.

2) You have no idea what traits I use or my play style yet you make weak comments. I on the other hand know fully well your stealth play style and say it is op.

Smoooosh goes your post.

Thank You. Come Again.

Jitters, i fight a LOT of great thief who play as you said. Almost without stealth, they are pretty good timing skills, because when you haven’t CD on your abilities you can timing skills at your will. They are great duelist and win because they are better.

Obviously they can’t 1v5 like perma stealth thief. But really the only class capable of that is perma-stealth thief. Maybe a high damage build can shutdown 1 or 2, but he dies after that. A perma-stealth thief not.

I have a thief, in lvl80, i am not good with it because i play more my others characters, but i don’t play with perma stealth because is boring for me, but i feel i have a LOT of survivability only from dodges, evasions, dash, blinds and interrupts and 1 or 2 long cd stealths. Enough to go anywhere knowing i will going to survive if i want.

I’ll just put this here: It takes skill to play as a Thief, and it takes skill to kill one.

Once your game play skills improve, you’ll be better off.

Most classes can run away from a group of 5 or 10
Most classes can 1v5 baddies
And to the OP if you compare PvP to WvW then you need to l2p.

My main is a warrior and I can reset a fight WHENEVER I want.

Kanenas.4906:

“I have two layouts of stealth. Weapon sets Pistol/Dagger Shortbow.

1) Hide in shadows and Shadow Refuge.
2) Shadow refuge and Black Powder (my heal skill is withdraw)

I know I can use cloak and dagger, but I do not. …"

You wrote it no?

As I said you use only 2 condition removal skills (if traited)? One at 40 sec CD (Black Powder) and the other at 60(Shadow Refuge).

Could you please tell me how you remove conditions? With P/D and shortbow?
And do not say Pain Response, please. I wait some serious arguments from you.

My only condition removal tool is Hide In Shadows. I do not trait for removing a condition on stealth. It is not needed for 99% of the fights.

I’ll give you an idea, but you figure it out yourself like I did. Remember, the last loss I had was to a condition necro, so I am not immune to crazy condition damage. Good Thieves know when to take the abuse and not remove it.

Two Main Focus Points on Stealth Thieves and Non Stealth Play Styles.

1) Non stealth thieves actually know the class because they do not limit themselves.
2) Non stealth really need to play smart and play to limit damage, not avoid damage. Limiting and avoiding are vastly different, because in my case I know I will get hit. In your case, you know the stealth avoids damage.

If we can limit the abuse we take, we control the fights. The moment we control the fights We Actually Make You Think You Need to Perform An Action When It Really Isn’t Needed. Annnd you waste abilities with cooldowns and/or initiative.

In reality, all my fights are me making you do what I want you to do. The moment that occurs, the fight is mine.

A shout out to the Ranger who can kill a stealth thief. You my friend know your class well. Kudos.

JakobGW.5730:

Kanenas.4906:

Could you please tell me how you remove conditions? With P/D and shortbow?
And do not say Pain Response, please. I wait some serious arguments from you.

Perhaps he could give us a link to a video of his play. That would help settle this little debate.

So, Jitters, up to that challenge? Let us watch you and let us decide for ourselves.

Come on man, the guy said that he never lost to a warrior, using as utilities shadow refuge, blinding powder, and skale venom!!!!! No stun braker! And killed them with poison, torment from venom and bleedings from short bow 2…..

I wander why people feel the need to make stories and post them at a game’s forum.

Kanenas.4906:

JakobGW.5730:

Kanenas.4906:

Could you please tell me how you remove conditions? With P/D and shortbow?
And do not say Pain Response, please. I wait some serious arguments from you.

Perhaps he could give us a link to a video of his play. That would help settle this little debate.

So, Jitters, up to that challenge? Let us watch you and let us decide for ourselves.

Come on man, the guy said that he never lost to a warrior, using as utilities shadow refuge, blinding powder, and skale venom!!!!! No stun braker! And killed them with poison, torment from venom and bleedings from short bow 2…..

I wander why people feel the need to make stories and post them at a game’s forum.

And this is why you will never succeed at a skillful thief. Because you do not know your class nor have the desire to understand it to its fullest extent.

So stop being a cave man living in a renaissance world. I know what I do seems like magic to you, but it is pretty simple to figure out. L2p and enjoy the game.

Edit.
The closes thing I have to a stun breaker is “infiltrators arrow”. Don’t need anything else when you actually know how to play.

It’s sadly the truth now.
I am pretty new to mesmer, but I already feel invincible now, my mesmer NEVER EVER have lost any 1v1 or 1v2 in WvW since it hits 80.

I can challenge any ANet developer using any other other class to show how broken the current stealth are in WvW.

LightningBlaze.4913:

It is the most broken mechanic in gw2. Honestly though Mesmers are a lot more annoying with this mechanic than the actual thief.

Decent thieves don’t need perma stealth to compete.

Decent thieves don’t need perma stealth to compete.

Exactly!!!

You know how I came to think about using the shortbow for wvw? I saw a thief using a shortbow against multiple people and he was really good. I thought to myself, how does he do it?

Sooooo, I tried it. Went through the traits and skills I can choose from. Tried different settings. Changed my gear out for conditions. Went to wvw and lost a number of times while learning. I never gave up and now love it immensely.

Instead of asking me to do a video, I challenge stealth thieves to try it and not give up at the start due to it not being easy peasy. Do some work and enjoy the rewards. That is exactly what I did.

Once you start to control the fights you will have a ton of fun.

There isn’t even perma stealth! We have a 3 second reveal every time we attack out of stealth. You guys need to sop using stealth as a scapegoat for your inconpetance in fighting them! I have 3 other classes to 80 and can kill almost all thieves. Beefing stealth isn’t he answer. Needing anything on thief right now isn’t the answer. L2P is the answer, no matter how overused and stale it is, it is true. If you are running a full zerker build in WvW, and get 3 hit by a thief (Thieves 3 hit people, it’s simply they can do such a large amount of damage in such a short time the combat log says “Thief has hit you for x amount of damage with Backstab”), it’s quite honestly your own fault for running full zerker. It’s no different than when people would whisper me my power necro was OP because life blast was critting for 5-6k because that was how I built my necro, and I was squishy as hell.
So what am I trying to say, well, stealth is the thirds only for of survivability. It isn’t a broken concept like so many of you say, it isn’t OP kitten many as you say, and it most definitely isn’t a safe guard like many of you say. It is susceptible to any smart player, because thieves go into stealth so they won’t get hit because thieves are very squishy. Stealth isn’t an insta heal, nor a form of evade/blocking. If you hit a thief in stealth, it usually doesn’t fair well for the thief. I just want people to stop complaining about stealth being OP, it’s a very well designed concept.
And finally, to all those saying “Stealth spammers” and “Permastealth”, THOSE DONT EXIST! You can’t attack repeatedly while in stealth because of the 3 second reveal that has been implemented, so this directly effects in fighting style of ALL thieves in an absolute total of 0 ways. Even DP can’t maintain perma stealth any more. Since stealthing while in stealth doesn’t give initiative any more, you run out of initiative at 8 seconds, and it takes more than 8 seconds to get all the initiative back.

Kanenas.4906:

JakobGW.5730:

Kanenas.4906:

Could you please tell me how you remove conditions? With P/D and shortbow?
And do not say Pain Response, please. I wait some serious arguments from you.

Perhaps he could give us a link to a video of his play. That would help settle this little debate.

So, Jitters, up to that challenge? Let us watch you and let us decide for ourselves.

Come on man, the guy said that he never lost to a warrior, using as utilities shadow refuge, blinding powder, and skale venom!!!!! No stun braker! And killed them with poison, torment from venom and bleedings from short bow 2…..

I wander why people feel the need to make stories and post them at a game’s forum.

You actually can kill them, with interrupts, blinds and shadowsteps. Is about timing skills. That is why a lot of thief dont know how to play. They are pretty used to spam stealth and rely hardly on that and only on that to win.

I can’t do that with my thief, because i am not a good thief, but i saw a LOT of good thief doing it. And not abusing of stealth mechanic.

sierras.6297:

There isn’t even perma stealth! We have a 3 second reveal every time we attack out of stealth. You guys need to sop using stealth as a scapegoat for your inconpetance in fighting them! I have 3 other classes to 80 and can kill almost all thieves. Beefing stealth isn’t he answer. Needing anything on thief right now isn’t the answer. L2P is the answer, no matter how overused and stale it is, it is true. If you are running a full zerker build in WvW, and get 3 hit by a thief (Thieves 3 hit people, it’s simply they can do such a large amount of damage in such a short time the combat log says “Thief has hit you for x amount of damage with Backstab”), it’s quite honestly your own fault for running full zerker. It’s no different than when people would whisper me my power necro was OP because life blast was critting for 5-6k because that was how I built my necro, and I was squishy as hell.
So what am I trying to say, well, stealth is the thirds only for of survivability. It isn’t a broken concept like so many of you say, it isn’t OP kitten many as you say, and it most definitely isn’t a safe guard like many of you say. It is susceptible to any smart player, because thieves go into stealth so they won’t get hit because thieves are very squishy. Stealth isn’t an insta heal, nor a form of evade/blocking. If you hit a thief in stealth, it usually doesn’t fair well for the thief. I just want people to stop complaining about stealth being OP, it’s a very well designed concept.
And finally, to all those saying “Stealth spammers” and “Permastealth”, THOSE DONT EXIST! You can’t attack repeatedly while in stealth because of the 3 second reveal that has been implemented, so this directly effects in fighting style of ALL thieves in an absolute total of 0 ways. Even DP can’t maintain perma stealth any more. Since stealthing while in stealth doesn’t give initiative any more, you run out of initiative at 8 seconds, and it takes more than 8 seconds to get all the initiative back.

I’ve already stated the facts that the thief auto attacks are higher damaging then most abilities with cool downs. Example.. Backstab uses no initiative points and can be traited to crit 100% of the time and has only the stealth reveal as a cool down. What other class has an ability that can do up to 12k (depending on the target) every 6-8 seconds. I say 6-8 because you need to set up the backstab beyond the reveal time out.

Besides. A thief doesn’t need to use initiative abilities beyond stealthing.

And again I smoosh stealth thief arguments with factual information.

Jitters.9401:

sierras.6297:

QUOTE

I’ve already stated the facts that the thief auto attacks are higher damaging then most abilities with cool downs. Example.. Backstab uses no initiative points and can be traited to crit 100% of the time and has only the stealth reveal as a cool down. What other class has an ability that can do up to 12k (depending on the target) every 6-8 seconds. I say 6-8 because you need to set up the backstab beyond the reveal time out.

Besides. A thief doesn’t need to use initiative abilities beyond stealthing.

And again I smoosh stealth thief arguments with factual information.

Okay, a 12 k Backstab would be on a full zerker ele/ranger with absolutely no sustain and the thief has 5-10 stacks of might. As I said, an opening chain of a Backstab thief happens so fast that the total damage is recorded as one hit, causing so many misconceptions about thieves. Second, in that 6-8 second down time, which you are pretty accurate about, a thief can die very easily. You also have to consider that Backstab doesn’t always hot their back when in mid fight, so the chances of dealing 8k damage (a more realistic Backstab against a decently built WvWer) drop because you bed to position yourself perfectly. While this is easier on some races (I.e. Norn) and very difficult on some (I.e. Asura) it makes a difference in the outcome of the fight. If you don’t hit the back, you do significantly less damage, dropping that 8k to a measly 5-6k. This is a power necros life blast. This is an Eviscerate. This is damage every class can do in 1 skill, while thief requires 2-3 depending if mug is on or not.
Don’t act like you are so smart with numbers, those are in an ideal situation. The chance of doing 12k is an idealistic scenario where you are fighting a full zerk target who has no sustain built into their build. So this happens a lot against rangers and Mesmers, that’s about it.
One last thing, imitative is used for other things other than stealthing, it’s just the most common use, and if you miss a Backstab twice, there goes your initiative, and now you are in a lot of danger.

[/quote]

Okay, a 12 k Backstab would be on a full zerker ele/ranger with absolutely no sustain and the thief has 5-10 stacks of might. As I said, an opening chain of a Backstab thief happens so fast that the total damage is recorded as one hit, causing so many misconceptions about thieves. Second, in that 6-8 second down time, which you are pretty accurate about, a thief can die very easily. You also have to consider that Backstab doesn’t always hot their back when in mid fight, so the chances of dealing 8k damage (a more realistic Backstab against a decently built WvWer) drop because you bed to position yourself perfectly. While this is easier on some races (I.e. Norn) and very difficult on some (I.e. Asura) it makes a difference in the outcome of the fight. If you don’t hit the back, you do significantly less damage, dropping that 8k to a measly 5-6k. This is a power necros life blast. This is an Eviscerate. This is damage every class can do in 1 skill, while thief requires 2-3 depending if mug is on or not.
Don’t act like you are so smart with numbers, those are in an ideal situation. The chance of doing 12k is an idealistic scenario where you are fighting a full zerk target who has no sustain built into their build. So this happens a lot against rangers and Mesmers, that’s about it. [/quote]

That’s funny. I don’t wear any zerk on any of my toons and neither do many others. I wear a vitality/toughness mix of gear with my thief to make up for condition and direct damage as much as I can, and wow.. I still get hit for 12k. You do know how to stack for max crit damage right? Maybe not by your replies.

It isn’t a matter of being smart with numbers. It is a matter of checking my combat logs and knowing how to play against a thief who stealths.

I can squash any argument you have, will have, and did have with one statement.

Who is more believable… The thieves who refuse to play a style because they say it is far over powered and skill-less, or the thieves who say it is balanced and continue to play it?

Answer is obvious.

Huzzah

sierras.6297:

There isn’t even perma stealth! We have a 3 second reveal every time we attack out of stealth. You guys need to sop using stealth as a scapegoat for your inconpetance in fighting them! I have 3 other classes to 80 and can kill almost all thieves. Beefing stealth isn’t he answer. Needing anything on thief right now isn’t the answer. L2P is the answer, no matter how overused and stale it is, it is true. If you are running a full zerker build in WvW, and get 3 hit by a thief (Thieves 3 hit people, it’s simply they can do such a large amount of damage in such a short time the combat log says “Thief has hit you for x amount of damage with Backstab”), it’s quite honestly your own fault for running full zerker. It’s no different than when people would whisper me my power necro was OP because life blast was critting for 5-6k because that was how I built my necro, and I was squishy as hell.
So what am I trying to say, well, stealth is the thirds only for of survivability. It isn’t a broken concept like so many of you say, it isn’t OP kitten many as you say, and it most definitely isn’t a safe guard like many of you say. It is susceptible to any smart player, because thieves go into stealth so they won’t get hit because thieves are very squishy. Stealth isn’t an insta heal, nor a form of evade/blocking. If you hit a thief in stealth, it usually doesn’t fair well for the thief. I just want people to stop complaining about stealth being OP, it’s a very well designed concept.
And finally, to all those saying “Stealth spammers” and “Permastealth”, THOSE DONT EXIST! You can’t attack repeatedly while in stealth because of the 3 second reveal that has been implemented, so this directly effects in fighting style of ALL thieves in an absolute total of 0 ways. Even DP can’t maintain perma stealth any more. Since stealthing while in stealth doesn’t give initiative any more, you run out of initiative at 8 seconds, and it takes more than 8 seconds to get all the initiative back.

Actually, stealth is a very bad game design concept. It has been in every other game that has implemented it and GW2 is no different. 3sec reveal is kitten all when you can evade, shadowstep, and blind during those 3 seconds. That leaves us with max 2 seconds (if we are lucky) to out damage the heal you will get when you stealth again. Also when you stealth, all people can do is guess where you might be or if you are coming in for a BS often wasting precious blocks and dodges. Being invisible is the biggest advantage you can have over another player, no matter how short the duration. It’s a cheap mechanic for easy wins and should never have existed in competitive play .

I would love for the Thief profession to get a rework with no in combat stealth making it a fun class to fight and have interesting encounters but that’s would require a total gutting of the class and will not happen. All we can do is QQ the forums until it gets nerfed to the point where all thieves leave the game.

Jitters.9401:

Okay, a 12 k Backstab would be on a full zerker ele/ranger with absolutely no sustain and the thief has 5-10 stacks of might. As I said, an opening chain of a Backstab thief happens so fast that the total damage is recorded as one hit, causing so many misconceptions about thieves. Second, in that 6-8 second down time, which you are pretty accurate about, a thief can die very easily. You also have to consider that Backstab doesn’t always hot their back when in mid fight, so the chances of dealing 8k damage (a more realistic Backstab against a decently built WvWer) drop because you bed to position yourself perfectly. While this is easier on some races (I.e. Norn) and very difficult on some (I.e. Asura) it makes a difference in the outcome of the fight. If you don’t hit the back, you do significantly less damage, dropping that 8k to a measly 5-6k. This is a power necros life blast. This is an Eviscerate. This is damage every class can do in 1 skill, while thief requires 2-3 depending if mug is on or not.
Don’t act like you are so smart with numbers, those are in an ideal situation. The chance of doing 12k is an idealistic scenario where you are fighting a full zerk target who has no sustain built into their build. So this happens a lot against rangers and Mesmers, that’s about it. [/quote]

That’s funny. I don’t wear any zerk on any of my toons and neither do many others. I wear a vitality/toughness mix of gear with my thief to make up for condition and direct damage as much as I can, and wow.. I still get hit for 12k. You do know how to stack for max crit damage right? Maybe not by your replies.

It isn’t a matter of being smart with numbers. It is a matter of checking my combat logs and knowing how to play against a thief who stealths.

I can squash any argument you have, will have, and did have with one statement.

Who is more believable… The thieves who refuse to play a style because they say it is far over powered and skill-less, or the thieves who say it is balanced and continue to play it?

Answer is obvious.

Huzzah[/quote]

I don’t play a Backstab build… And when I did, I knew how to stack crit damage.

sierras.6297:

There isn’t even perma stealth! We have a 3 second reveal every time we attack out of stealth. You guys need to sop using stealth as a scapegoat for your inconpetance in fighting them! I have 3 other classes to 80 and can kill almost all thieves. Beefing stealth isn’t he answer. Needing anything on thief right now isn’t the answer. L2P is the answer, no matter how overused and stale it is, it is true. If you are running a full zerker build in WvW, and get 3 hit by a thief (Thieves 3 hit people, it’s simply they can do such a large amount of damage in such a short time the combat log says “Thief has hit you for x amount of damage with Backstab”), it’s quite honestly your own fault for running full zerker. It’s no different than when people would whisper me my power necro was OP because life blast was critting for 5-6k because that was how I built my necro, and I was squishy as hell.
So what am I trying to say, well, stealth is the thirds only for of survivability. It isn’t a broken concept like so many of you say, it isn’t OP kitten many as you say, and it most definitely isn’t a safe guard like many of you say. It is susceptible to any smart player, because thieves go into stealth so they won’t get hit because thieves are very squishy. Stealth isn’t an insta heal, nor a form of evade/blocking. If you hit a thief in stealth, it usually doesn’t fair well for the thief. I just want people to stop complaining about stealth being OP, it’s a very well designed concept.
And finally, to all those saying “Stealth spammers” and “Permastealth”, THOSE DONT EXIST! You can’t attack repeatedly while in stealth because of the 3 second reveal that has been implemented, so this directly effects in fighting style of ALL thieves in an absolute total of 0 ways. Even DP can’t maintain perma stealth any more. Since stealthing while in stealth doesn’t give initiative any more, you run out of initiative at 8 seconds, and it takes more than 8 seconds to get all the initiative back.

I am sorry, but i guarantee that you can perma stealth still. Anet made it a little more difficult in December, but it’s still relatively easy.

Julie Yann.5379:

All we can do is QQ the forums until it gets nerfed to the point where all thieves leave the game.

hopefully that happen. Because i am pretty sick of D/P thief, is all i see when i roaming, a lot of them, a lot, almost the 50% of roamers in my matchup.

If i lose, i die. And i need to WP. If they lose they permastealth, and try again until win. That is just annoying and have no sense to play against, i don’t understand if the currents devs play wvw how they explain why stealth work like that and they dont change it.

What else do thieves have? Let them have there fun disappearing.

i’m really happy that this thread has become an eye-opener to the wvw community. these players have been abusing stealth far too long. they all know that but they refuse to admit it because they don’t like playing fair. i just hope that the dev’s will do something about this issue. it is clearly ruining the fun of a lot of people in wvw.

Valentin.2073:

i’m really happy that this thread has become an eye-opener to the wvw community. these players have been abusing stealth far too long. they all know that but they refuse to admit it because they don’t like playing fair. i just hope that the dev’s will do something about this issue. it is clearly ruining the fun of a lot of people in wvw.

It’s nothing new. People have been complaining about stealth since beta. Learn to play. Trust me, you’ll find stealth thieves very easy to beat. I had trouble with them until I played one, now I know exactly what a thief is going to do when he goes into stealth and where he’ll be at exact moments in the fight.

Permastealth is possible by using utilities. ANET has already said they are fine with thieves being able to stealth for long periods of time, as long as they use utilities to do this. You can no longer just 5>2>2>2>2 over and over. To permastealth now you have to give up utilities (most run stunbreaks these days, so they are now easier to kill because of cc’s)

If a thief is actually perma stealthing, he is doing no damage to anyone. If you are getting hit, he is not permastealthing.

You are playing a Zerker Ranger. If you cant apply enough pressure between his reveal time and restealthing, rethink your build/gear. There are ranger builds out there that can very easily deal with a thief hitting for high numbers everyone seems to complain about.

Thieves are at the bottom of the list in WvW. Yes we can scout, kill yaks, flip camps as good as everyone else, but outside that whats so amazing about them? If you are in WvW looking for 1v1s, you should expect to encounter a thief more often than any other profession. Keep playing, you will quickly learn that 95% of thieves are extremely predictable.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Valentin.2073:

i’m really happy that this thread has become an eye-opener to the wvw community. these players have been abusing stealth far too long. they all know that but they refuse to admit it because they don’t like playing fair. i just hope that the dev’s will do something about this issue. it is clearly ruining the fun of a lot of people in wvw.

It’s nothing new. People have been complaining about stealth since beta. Learn to play. Trust me, you’ll find stealth thieves very easy to beat. I had trouble with them until I played one, now I know exactly what a thief is going to do when he goes into stealth and where he’ll be at exact moments in the fight.

dude, i can beat them both in pvp and wvw using all types of builds that a ranger can use. ranger is my main class and i know how to play him really well. i can play ele, necro, warrior, ranger, necro, mesmer and thief in pvp. i know that a thief can spam stealth using black powder + hearseeker. most thieves i see in wvw don’t even know how to time their elite skill because they are so absorbed in spamming stealths. thief is an easy class and everybody knows that. it is a class that you dont even need to study to learn its mechanics. please try playing a zerker ele, ranger, guardian or mesmer and compare their survivability to a zerker thief.

Frigid.6027:

Permastealth is possible by using utilities. ANET has already said they are fine with thieves being able to stealth for long periods of time, as long as they use utilities to do this. You can no longer just 5>2>2>2>2 over and over. To permastealth now you have to give up utilities (most run stunbreaks these days, so they are now easier to kill because of cc’s)

If a thief is actually perma stealthing, he is doing no damage to anyone. If you are getting hit, he is not permastealthing.

You are playing a Zerker Ranger. If you cant apply enough pressure between his reveal time and restealthing, rethink your build/gear. There are ranger builds out there that can very easily deal with a thief hitting for high numbers everyone seems to complain about.

Thieves are at the bottom of the list in WvW. Yes we can scout, kill yaks, flip camps as good as everyone else, but outside that whats so amazing about them? If you are in WvW looking for 1v1s, you should expect to encounter a thief more often than any other profession. Keep playing, you will quickly learn that 95% of thieves are extremely predictable.

idk why you people keep defending how broken stealth is in wvw. if you are so good in your profession, i’m sure a little nerf wont hurt you that much. black powder + heartseeker stealth just has to go away.

Frigid.6027:

Permastealth is possible by using utilities. ANET has already said they are fine with thieves being able to stealth for long periods of time, as long as they use utilities to do this. You can no longer just 5>2>2>2>2 over and over. To permastealth now you have to give up utilities (most run stunbreaks these days, so they are now easier to kill because of cc’s)

If a thief is actually perma stealthing, he is doing no damage to anyone. If you are getting hit, he is not permastealthing.

You are playing a Zerker Ranger. If you cant apply enough pressure between his reveal time and restealthing, rethink your build/gear. There are ranger builds out there that can very easily deal with a thief hitting for high numbers everyone seems to complain about.

Thieves are at the bottom of the list in WvW. Yes we can scout, kill yaks, flip camps as good as everyone else, but outside that whats so amazing about them? If you are in WvW looking for 1v1s, you should expect to encounter a thief more often than any other profession. Keep playing, you will quickly learn that 95% of thieves are extremely predictable.

That’s just inaccurate. Permastealth thieves most definitely can kill enemies and get away from groups. If you don’t know, perhaps you should watch a few videos that others have posted.

What’s really annoying is when a theif is inside smc and just cnd’s off a wall, over and over. They shouldn’t be able to do that. That’s just poor design. Now when they are out in the open theives are either easy kills or they just blind you till you either block/dodge a few cnd or they disengage. D/P’s a different story…

Valentin.2073:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Valentin.2073:

i’m really happy that this thread has become an eye-opener to the wvw community. these players have been abusing stealth far too long. they all know that but they refuse to admit it because they don’t like playing fair. i just hope that the dev’s will do something about this issue. it is clearly ruining the fun of a lot of people in wvw.

It’s nothing new. People have been complaining about stealth since beta. Learn to play. Trust me, you’ll find stealth thieves very easy to beat. I had trouble with them until I played one, now I know exactly what a thief is going to do when he goes into stealth and where he’ll be at exact moments in the fight.

dude, i can beat them both in pvp and wvw using all types of builds that a ranger can use. ranger is my main class and i know how to play him really well. i can play ele, necro, warrior, ranger, necro, mesmer and thief in pvp. i know that a thief can spam stealth using black powder + hearseeker. most thieves i see in wvw don’t even know how to time their elite skill because they are so absorbed in spamming stealths. thief is an easy class and everybody knows that. it is a class that you dont even need to study to learn its mechanics. please try playing a zerker ele, ranger, guardian or mesmer and compare their survivability to a zerker thief.

Please stop assuming one popular, easy to play build = the whole class. Not everyone plays the thief like that, and you overgeneralize too much in assuming that every thief is absorbed in keeping stealth up — any decent thief isn’t. I myself run a no-stealth mobility chasing and lockdown build, which doesn’t just do it’s job description. I can take on multiple opponents and best them relatively regularly without the crutch of stealth, and still get called a no-skill thief, when in reality the thief and elementalist are the only two classes which actually regularly utilize their combo fields and finishers mid-combat, to maximize the efficiency of their gameplay and beat multiple opponents. If you’re wasting your time with a bad perma stealthing thief who keeps running whenever their shank fails, leave it. They aren’t worth the effort.

Really though: don’t assume that every thief is bad. That’s insulting to players who actually do show skill in the class but are written off because of the majority.

Mitsubishi Eclipsed.6732:

What’s really annoying is when a theif is inside smc and just cnd’s off a wall, over and over. They shouldn’t be able to do that. That’s just poor design. Now when they are out in the open theives are either easy kills or they just blind you till you either block/dodge a few cnd or they disengage. D/P’s a different story…

CnD on a wall is just the incompetent of Anet to change their codes just because they don’t care about WvW. Don’t blame the class because of it. And yes, D/P is another story.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Valentin.2073:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Valentin.2073:

i’m really happy that this thread has become an eye-opener to the wvw community. these players have been abusing stealth far too long. they all know that but they refuse to admit it because they don’t like playing fair. i just hope that the dev’s will do something about this issue. it is clearly ruining the fun of a lot of people in wvw.

It’s nothing new. People have been complaining about stealth since beta. Learn to play. Trust me, you’ll find stealth thieves very easy to beat. I had trouble with them until I played one, now I know exactly what a thief is going to do when he goes into stealth and where he’ll be at exact moments in the fight.

dude, i can beat them both in pvp and wvw using all types of builds that a ranger can use. ranger is my main class and i know how to play him really well. i can play ele, necro, warrior, ranger, necro, mesmer and thief in pvp. i know that a thief can spam stealth using black powder + hearseeker. most thieves i see in wvw don’t even know how to time their elite skill because they are so absorbed in spamming stealths. thief is an easy class and everybody knows that. it is a class that you dont even need to study to learn its mechanics. please try playing a zerker ele, ranger, guardian or mesmer and compare their survivability to a zerker thief.

Please stop assuming one popular, easy to play build = the whole class. Not everyone plays the thief like that, and you overgeneralize too much in assuming that every thief is absorbed in keeping stealth up — any decent thief isn’t. I myself run a no-stealth mobility chasing and lockdown build, which doesn’t just do it’s job description. I can take on multiple opponents and best them relatively regularly without the crutch of stealth, and still get called a no-skill thief, when in reality the thief and elementalist are the only two classes which actually regularly utilize their combo fields and finishers mid-combat, to maximize the efficiency of their gameplay and beat multiple opponents. If you’re wasting your time with a bad perma stealthing thief who keeps running whenever their shank fails, leave it. They aren’t worth the effort.

Really though: don’t assume that every thief is bad. That’s insulting to players who actually do show skill in the class but are written off because of the majority.

Idk where you play, in my matchup the 40-50% of roamers are thief, and the 90% is D/P thief and spam stealth.

In my case i am not wasting my time fighting with thief, the problem is the fight occurs, if i lose, i die. But when i win they go to stealth and try again over and over until kill me. I can’t leave the combat, i CAN’T ignore them, i can’t run away. Every D/P thief is going to try no matter what until win. They have nothing to lose, no risk at all.

urieldhynne.2743:

Idk where you play, in my matchup the 40-50% of roamers are thief, and the 90% is D/P thief and spam stealth.

In my case i am not wasting my time fighting with thief, the problem is the fight occurs, if i lose, i die. But when i win they go to stealth and try again over and over until kill me. I can’t leave the combat, i CAN’T ignore them, i can’t run away. Every D/P thief is going to try no matter what until win. They have nothing to lose, no risk at all.

If D/P is your main concern, why ask a nerf on stealth when the weapon set is the one abusing it. All other weapon set will not be able to abuse stealth like D/P, so why the kitten all of you keep on asking nerf on stealth that will kill other weapon set but not the one that is abusing the stealth which is D/P.

Dumb kittens.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Valentin.2073:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Valentin.2073:

i’m really happy that this thread has become an eye-opener to the wvw community. these players have been abusing stealth far too long. they all know that but they refuse to admit it because they don’t like playing fair. i just hope that the dev’s will do something about this issue. it is clearly ruining the fun of a lot of people in wvw.

It’s nothing new. People have been complaining about stealth since beta. Learn to play. Trust me, you’ll find stealth thieves very easy to beat. I had trouble with them until I played one, now I know exactly what a thief is going to do when he goes into stealth and where he’ll be at exact moments in the fight.

dude, i can beat them both in pvp and wvw using all types of builds that a ranger can use. ranger is my main class and i know how to play him really well. i can play ele, necro, warrior, ranger, necro, mesmer and thief in pvp. i know that a thief can spam stealth using black powder + hearseeker. most thieves i see in wvw don’t even know how to time their elite skill because they are so absorbed in spamming stealths. thief is an easy class and everybody knows that. it is a class that you dont even need to study to learn its mechanics. please try playing a zerker ele, ranger, guardian or mesmer and compare their survivability to a zerker thief.

Please stop assuming one popular, easy to play build = the whole class. Not everyone plays the thief like that, and you overgeneralize too much in assuming that every thief is absorbed in keeping stealth up — any decent thief isn’t. I myself run a no-stealth mobility chasing and lockdown build, which doesn’t just do it’s job description. I can take on multiple opponents and best them relatively regularly without the crutch of stealth, and still get called a no-skill thief, when in reality the thief and elementalist are the only two classes which actually regularly utilize their combo fields and finishers mid-combat, to maximize the efficiency of their gameplay and beat multiple opponents. If you’re wasting your time with a bad perma stealthing thief who keeps running whenever their shank fails, leave it. They aren’t worth the effort.

Really though: don’t assume that every thief is bad. That’s insulting to players who actually do show skill in the class but are written off because of the majority.

i didnt mean to generalize and it was my fault. i should have been more specific. i was just talking about p/d braindead thieves.

thieves are just competently lame in WvW, being able to blink out after being fully engaged and taking damage is just plain lame.

Hummm…I play a ranger and admit that 1v1 vs a thief I lose. But, I know this. It’s WvW and I don’t run up and try to kill em 1v1….I love to stay back and just focus on thieves all day. In a crowd I find em and make sure they never leave. No prob…they sometimes even try to run through the crowd to get at me…much to their stupid demise.

As for changing them so the little fellows are less powerful; that may happen at some point and then all the tykes will get on their trikes and find another niche to exploit.

It would be quite a shock for anyone coming from pvp to wvw.

@OP, what you have to realise is that they only balance around pvp, not wvw.

WvW is a totally imbalanced format by design. Shocking I know, but its true.

Eypheha.5831:

Hummm…I play a ranger and admit that 1v1 vs a thief I lose. But, I know this. It’s WvW and I don’t run up and try to kill em 1v1….I love to stay back and just focus on thieves all day. In a crowd I find em and make sure they never leave. No prob…they sometimes even try to run through the crowd to get at me…much to their stupid demise.

As for changing them so the little fellows are less powerful; that may happen at some point and then all the tykes will get on their trikes and find another niche to exploit.

lol. True on many points. I think more and more people are using that play style. When 2 blobs collide don’t engage enemy blob. Hang back, wait for a roach..I mean thief, to pop and try and gank someone. Now it’s your turn = dead thief

i finally was able to download a screen recorder. yay!

this was me playing a zerker ranger fighting a asuran engi. i’d make a video too of me fighting a thief 1v1 in wvw as soon as i got the chance.

Valentin.2073:

i finally was able to download a screen recorder. yay!

this was me playing a zerker ranger fighting a asuran engi. i’d make a video too of me fighting a thief 1v1 in wvw as soon as i got the chance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HiYUlhsO_M

Did you just post a video of you clicking, banging your 1-5 keys, and keyboard turning in a thread you created complaining about thieves in WvW????

Thieves are fine in all aspects of the game and in truth are UP in many facets of the game.

Azukas.1426:

Valentin.2073:

i finally was able to download a screen recorder. yay!

this was me playing a zerker ranger fighting a asuran engi. i’d make a video too of me fighting a thief 1v1 in wvw as soon as i got the chance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HiYUlhsO_M

Did you just post a video of you clicking, banging your 1-5 keys, and keyboard turning in a thread you created complaining about thieves in WvW????

Thieves are fine in all aspects of the game and in truth are UP in many facets of the game.

do you even know how strong an engi is 1v1? lol. try play a zerker ranger and fight an engi and lets see how well you fare.

btw, thief is not UP. thief is the only class that can use a power build and still have high survivability and insane damage.

Buzzcrave.6197:

Mitsubishi Eclipsed.6732:

What’s really annoying is when a theif is inside smc and just cnd’s off a wall, over and over. They shouldn’t be able to do that. That’s just poor design. Now when they are out in the open theives are either easy kills or they just blind you till you either block/dodge a few cnd or they disengage. D/P’s a different story…

CnD on a wall is just the incompetent of Anet to change their codes just because they don’t care about WvW. Don’t blame the class because of it. And yes, D/P is another story.

Not blaming the class one bit. It’s the poor design on the part of Anet (about stealthing off walls that is).

Stealth keeps them alive. Some don’t realize that they have the lest amount of HP pool in the game. Without stealth, they truly are walking loot bags. D/P on the other hand can and is abused. D/D takes more skill then D/P. Miss a few CnD and you my become toast. Where on the other hand, D/P had a more reliable stealth aspect.

I split time between thief and war, when I’m on war I feel like a walking god… Even in full zerk gear.

Sanduskel.1850:

That’s just inaccurate. Permastealth thieves most definitely can kill enemies and get away from groups. If you don’t know, perhaps you should watch a few videos that others have posted.

If the thief is permastealthing, he is not leaving stealth. What happens when you attack someone from stealth? You get revealed.

Please share these videos of a thief never leaving stealth and killing people.

ALSO, the op posted a video of him fighting a bunker engi in pvp. That is not an accurate duel with your complaints of being in wvw. High chance if you run into a roaming engineer in wvw, they will be dire perplexity or at least rabid perplexity. With that being said, you would of killed yourself from keyboard smashing with the stacks of confusion he applied.

I think what people should be more concerned about is there are builds out there for a few classes that kill people just as fast as bs thieves, except they are bunkers with condis.

When i play wvw with my thief, im coming with stealth and play with that.
No u cant win all fights , but even with my stealths i remember i have met 2 skilled rangers so far.Took me about 5 mins of fighting solo with 1 , and the other 1 wich wooped my kitten a couple of times till i kinda figured how and when to take him down, as he had a lot of toughness and by the time i would get to him he would simply knock me back .Its not that i couldnt beat him , its pretty simple he wasnt running zerker in wvw and his toughness would pressure would outrun mine.I can assure that he did a lot of damage , as he managed to get half my life before i even managed to backstab him once.
U should stop complaining about stealth and learn your profession better, or maybe play with the thief for a bit so u know how to take it down and where he is gonna smack you.Besides that u got a bow with 1200 range and u complain about stealth when u cant even use your skills properly, use other weps also and u gonna be amazed by what u can do.
So an advice for rangers, u aint LEGOLAS to kill orcs by 1 shot.

Sanduskel.1850:

Why is his spec cheese, yet perma stealth abuse isn’t?

Because calling something cheese requires no thought or insight.

Sergiu.3698:

When i play wvw with my thief, im coming with stealth and play with that.
No u cant win all fights , but even with my stealths i remember i have met 2 skilled rangers so far.Took me about 5 mins of fighting solo with 1 , and the other 1 wich wooped my kitten a couple of times till i kinda figured how and when to take him down, as he had a lot of toughness and by the time i would get to him he would simply knock me back .Its not that i couldnt beat him , its pretty simple he wasnt running zerker in wvw and his toughness would pressure would outrun mine.I can assure that he did a lot of damage , as he managed to get half my life before i even managed to backstab him once.
U should stop complaining about stealth and learn your profession better, or maybe play with the thief for a bit so u know how to take it down and where he is gonna smack you.Besides that u got a bow with 1200 range and u complain about stealth when u cant even use your skills properly, use other weps also and u gonna be amazed by what u can do.
So an advice for rangers, u aint LEGOLAS to kill orcs by 1 shot.

lol! another thief telling rangers to l2p. these people actually believe they are all playing a hard spec. as a zerker ranger, i cant afford to make a mistake killing anyone. a thief can always mess up, hide in stealth and reset the fight. which do you think requires more skills to play? a zerker ranger or a zerker thief?

is wvw all about playing metabuilds? thieves on this thread are all asking me to change my build to l2p? it’s not even l2p, it’s more like learn to use a viable build. seriously, once i see a thief roaming alone in wvw i’m gonna kill him and post another video here. thieves are my favorite prey both in pvp and wvw. these thieves got used to beating too many bad rangers already.

srs 90% of this pve/wvw community has no clue about fighting anything in a 1on1 and just feel thieves r op cuzz they stealth away if they can t win a fight, a decent ranger shouldn t lose vs a thief in a 1on1 anyways… just stay on a spvp dueling server for a couple of hours to get an idea of wht ur chars r capable of.

As for wvw everythin tht runs food/tonics with +200 cond dmg +50% cond duration is op [ingis/mes/necro etc.] and d/p isn t in the best spot at all to hardcounter this.

Why is thief op?
Bc u get killd by a thief speccd to kill u, roaming around whil u play ur full pvt zerg follow build which is not made to encounter this matchup.

urieldhynne.2743:

You actually can kill them, with interrupts, blinds and shadowsteps.

On shortbow/pd? What interrupts? The shadowstep blinds when you put yourself into melee range only. And how do you deal enough damage, clusterbomb is really slow and can be kited from, unless you’re in melee range, poison damage is insufficient to kill, caltrops is pointless against players.

I’d really like to see how it’s played, in Wvw, roaming, you know, take camps, fight of decent players.

Jitters.9401:

I’ve already stated the facts that the thief auto attacks are higher damaging then most abilities with cool downs. Example.. Backstab uses no initiative points and can be traited to crit 100% of the time and has only the stealth reveal as a cool down.

Incorrect, Backstab does not fall in the category ‘auto-attack’, stealth is a precondition for backstab, as well as proper positioning, and entering stealth eats initiative (6 for C&D, 9 for BP/HS), or utilities with long cooldowns.

What other class has an ability that can do up to 12k (depending on the target) every 6-8 seconds. I say 6-8 because you need to set up the backstab beyond the reveal time out.

If even a ranger can do this, I’ll just assume every other class can too.

And again I smoosh stealth thief arguments with factual information.

Your ‘facts’ were bit off, so I am beginning to wonder if you might be that mesmer’s phantasm that stole the broom thinking he was a thief. ;p

Regardless of their actual impact high stealth time thieves will always be the bane of other players. Because there will never be anything more annoying than someone who can stay invisible most of the time, attack from a variety of ranges, and be virtually impossible to kill or pin down if they play well. Yet at the same time you almost cannot stop them from harassing you.

It’s like the Teemo of Guild Wars 2.

Valentin.2073:

well, so you just want these thieves to continue abusing stealth? this issue needs to be addressed. spvp gets regular balance update. anet just needs to at least take a look at how class balance is going on in wvw once in a while. a thief’s easy-mode mechanic in wvw is getting a bit too old.

You just showed us how little you know this game…

But back on topic:
Thief is one of the weaker professions in the game right now. The only place where we really feel like we can do something are in WvW, as roamers. We are non-existent in zergs. In dungesons we get kicked, just because we are a thief – even before the dungeon have started. In spvp we regularly get the question to switch to another profession.

In sPvP we can’t cap points while using our class mechanic, but in WvW we can kill the competition then cap. A thief without the shadow arts trait line in WvW (non-sword builds) are usually the first one to drop in a fight. For a thief to be viable in roaming we need to kill our enemy fast, which means full berserker and 10.850hp and about 900 toughness.

The problem in WvW isn’t thief spamming stealth to survive, it’s immortal warrior builds, PU mesmers that let AI do their job, condition necros who feel more like a nuclear powerplant and guardians with constant aegis, blocks, retaliation and protection. But you don’t see me whine about them, I learn how to at least try and kill them, or I leave them alone.