Guild Wars 2

Azukas.1426:

Sanduskel.1850:

Julie Yann.5379:

Nice derailment, you can’t even tell that this thread was about how cheap the stealth mechanic can be.

Not all of us thieves defend this op permastealth mechanic. I suggest that you send frequent, specific, persistant and respectful feedback to Anet to get this broken mechanic balanced. Thieves will not get the help that they need because stealth is horrifically op’d as is.

After watching the video provided and reading of Valentines exploits one would correct in deducing that rangers are OP

noone is going to believe you. we all know the truth and i’m sure the dev’s know it too. i wish they fix your class as soon as they can. thank you, anet.

Valentin.2073:

Azukas.1426:

Sanduskel.1850:

Julie Yann.5379:

Nice derailment, you can’t even tell that this thread was about how cheap the stealth mechanic can be.

Not all of us thieves defend this op permastealth mechanic. I suggest that you send frequent, specific, persistant and respectful feedback to Anet to get this broken mechanic balanced. Thieves will not get the help that they need because stealth is horrifically op’d as is.

After watching the video provided and reading of Valentines exploits one would correct in deducing that rangers are OP

noone is going to believe you. we all know the truth and i’m sure the dev’s know it too. i wish they fix your class as soon as they can. thank you, anet.

What makes you think I play a thief??

I assure you that I do not have a thief on my account

he still ignored my offer to duel me lol

Azukas.1426:

Valentin.2073:

Azukas.1426:

Sanduskel.1850:

Julie Yann.5379:

Nice derailment, you can’t even tell that this thread was about how cheap the stealth mechanic can be.

Not all of us thieves defend this op permastealth mechanic. I suggest that you send frequent, specific, persistant and respectful feedback to Anet to get this broken mechanic balanced. Thieves will not get the help that they need because stealth is horrifically op’d as is.

After watching the video provided and reading of Valentines exploits one would correct in deducing that rangers are OP

noone is going to believe you. we all know the truth and i’m sure the dev’s know it too. i wish they fix your class as soon as they can. thank you, anet.

What makes you think I play a thief??

I assure you that I do not have a thief on my account

end of our discussion then. there’s no need for me to reply to you. :P

Cynz.9437:

he still ignored my offer to duel me lol

i’m sure you’re gonna play a braindead condi banner warrior instead. if you want to duel me pls use something that requires skills and timing.

Valentin.2073:

Cynz.9437:

he still ignored my offer to duel me lol

i’m sure you’re gonna play a braindead condi banner warrior instead. if you want to duel me pls use something that requires skills and timing.

i said i just gonna play common class/build, nothing too fancy really… i mean thieves are OP, i am sure you can beat me

Yeah, no offense, but you’re playing a Zerker Ranger in WvW, and it sounds like you’re running solo. I get you just got introduced to wvw, but I’m telling you right now, GLHF. There are 4 top classes for roaming in WvW right now. 1. Thieves, 2. Mesmers, 3. Warriors, 4. Engineers. Eles and Guardians are in there as well, but you won’t see them as often as you see these classes. Thieves and Mesmers are especially abundant and annoying. Thy can use stealth to drop targets, set up insane damage, negate damage, confuse, and annoy you. Engineers almost always run super condi bombs. Area denial with conditions that hit hard, pretty annoying to deal with. Warriors…. yeah that condi tank build needs to go, it’s literally everywhere. With GS+Bulls Rush, it’s like “Why chase, you’ll never catch them”.

Back to the stealth “issue”, I don’t see it as a problem anymore. D/P thieves are drastically easy to kill once you know how they play. Me? I use my Guardian pretty much 100% of my gaming time. Grab a greatsword, notive the thief goes into stealth, press 5, follow the trail. See the Black Powder come out, I pull, most of the time stopping the stealth abuse. I hit hard enough that the thief needs to reset the fight, which is fine by me, I have 18K health, maximum backstabs I’ve seen are 4-5K on me. P/D gets annoying, but I just pop condis on them, sword 3 helps, focus abilities, constant pressure, forcing them to waste initiative and cd’s wile shrugging off the condis. It’s cheesy, but P/D is really effective.

As a ranger, I advise, in all seriousness, rerolling if you want to go solo. If not, get a nice group of 5.together, ecause, tbh, nobody really solo roams wvw anymore.

Valentin.2073:

Azukas.1426:

Valentin.2073:

Azukas.1426:

Sanduskel.1850:

Julie Yann.5379:

Nice derailment, you can’t even tell that this thread was about how cheap the stealth mechanic can be.

Not all of us thieves defend this op permastealth mechanic. I suggest that you send frequent, specific, persistant and respectful feedback to Anet to get this broken mechanic balanced. Thieves will not get the help that they need because stealth is horrifically op’d as is.

After watching the video provided and reading of Valentines exploits one would correct in deducing that rangers are OP

noone is going to believe you. we all know the truth and i’m sure the dev’s know it too. i wish they fix your class as soon as they can. thank you, anet.

What makes you think I play a thief??

I assure you that I do not have a thief on my account

end of our discussion then. there’s no need for me to reply to you. :P

Wrong because I find thieves to be absolutely no problem to fight and think they are balanced.

If I watch a thief 1v3 people I kill the thief while educating the 3 who are getting schooled

Kaizz.7306:

Yeah, no offense, but you’re playing a Zerker Ranger in WvW, and it sounds like you’re running solo. I get you just got introduced to wvw, but I’m telling you right now, GLHF. There are 4 top classes for roaming in WvW right now. 1. Thieves, 2. Mesmers, 3. Warriors, 4. Engineers. Eles and Guardians are in there as well, but you won’t see them as often as you see these classes. Thieves and Mesmers are especially abundant and annoying. Thy can use stealth to drop targets, set up insane damage, negate damage, confuse, and annoy you. Engineers almost always run super condi bombs. Area denial with conditions that hit hard, pretty annoying to deal with. Warriors…. yeah that condi tank build needs to go, it’s literally everywhere. With GS+Bulls Rush, it’s like “Why chase, you’ll never catch them”.

Back to the stealth “issue”, I don’t see it as a problem anymore. D/P thieves are drastically easy to kill once you know how they play. Me? I use my Guardian pretty much 100% of my gaming time. Grab a greatsword, notive the thief goes into stealth, press 5, follow the trail. See the Black Powder come out, I pull, most of the time stopping the stealth abuse. I hit hard enough that the thief needs to reset the fight, which is fine by me, I have 18K health, maximum backstabs I’ve seen are 4-5K on me. P/D gets annoying, but I just pop condis on them, sword 3 helps, focus abilities, constant pressure, forcing them to waste initiative and cd’s wile shrugging off the condis. It’s cheesy, but P/D is really effective.

As a ranger, I advise, in all seriousness, rerolling if you want to go solo. If not, get a nice group of 5.together, ecause, tbh, nobody really solo roams wvw anymore.

why not? i can solo camps using my ranger. i’m playing a zerker ranger because i have the guts to do so. you dont go play what everyone else plays and tell yourself you’re good. it just makes you another scrub.

i’ve played my class in spvp/tpvp long enough to get it effective in wvw. seriously, i treat a thief as i treat an ele. just another loot bag i can take for free. the percentage of me winning against a thief 1v1 in wvw is like 90% wins. what i dont like about them is that when they are outnumbered they can easily disengage through spamming an insane number of stealths.

you people should not treat rangers like they are really that bad. i once killed 2 thieves 1 mesmer with the help of a single ranger ally. you guys have been fighting a lot of bad rangers too much.

Let’s steer the discussion back on track.

How does OP (or anyone else) propose to change stealth-spam? How would you change other aspects of Thieves? You must address both points because Thieves will just QQ and derail the topic again with, “zomg, stealth is all we have!”

i know thieves dont spam stealth like that in tpvp but they are still in a good place. anet just need to tweak it a little. maybe reduce the length of stealth that they can do through black powder + hs combo but if you’re gonna ask me, anet should just delete that finisher. i know some thieves who dont use p/d but they are pretty decent.

Karolis.4261:

Yes I did. Thats why i started using keybinds. And i dont recall myself ever using A and D as turn left and right, maybe except when playing Doom or Wolfenstein without a mouse controls.

Don’t forget Descent with a few more axis to control.

But that is not the issue. There is no issue. If someone gets by with clicking utilities and keyboard turning, good for them. A ranged character plays very different then a melee char which has to stay on top of it’s (kiting) target.

i’m gonna delete that video now. these people called the engi a noob. he was a really good engi. he said it himself after the match that he messed up with his heal but if he didnt he could have beaten me through his condition damage, imo. i only had HS to cleanse condition and i was just able to cleanse one because i had to dodge from his attack after he went out of stealth. some people can be so mean.

Valentin.2073:

I just started playing wvw. I used to just play pvp before for more than half a year and I noticed that thieves use stealth beyond normal in wvw. I dont know why they are allowed to do that in wvw. It’s not fun fighting them at all.

I play as a zerker ranger and it takes a lot of effort for me to kill a thief. I can beat them theres no problem about that but i dont think that they are even exerting any effort to the fight. most of the times they will stealth then run far away, reset and come back. it is lame, no-skill and braindead.

As a thief myself I actually find it quite annoying that 99% of the people that play thief just roll alts and stealthspam. My thief does not use stealth at all, I hate how you are basically forced to use stealth to be viable I have been trying for a long time to make a viable non-stealth build but stealth is just too overpowered to not use. I think stealth should be removed and replaced with a more interesting, less annoying mechanic.

Valentin.2073:

what i’m really getting at is that thieves shouldn’t be able to stealth that much. it’s insane. at least, minimize the amount of stealth that they can execute.

It’s their bread and butter. Damage comes from stealth, healing comes from stealth and control comes from stealth. To even just reduce stealth requires a complete rework of the traits. weapons and utilities. Try searching youtube for stealthless wvw roaming thieves and compare that to the stealth videos. Why do you think the people that play stealthless thieves in Wvw don’t upload many videos?

Valentin.2073:

noone is going to believe you. we all know the truth and i’m sure the dev’s know it too. i wish they fix your class as soon as they can. thank you, anet.

I wouldn’t count on it happening, either of them. Even if they only fixed ranger sword that would be something big.
Though, they did rework the dervish in GW1, eventually.

Valentin.2073:

i can solo camps using my ranger. i’m playing a zerker ranger because i have the guts to do so. you dont go play what everyone else plays and tell yourself you’re good. it just makes you another scrub.

i’ve played my class in spvp/tpvp long enough to get it effective in wvw. seriously, i treat a thief as i treat an ele. just another loot bag i can take for free. the percentage of me winning against a thief 1v1 in wvw is like 90% wins. what i dont like about them is that when they are outnumbered they can easily disengage through spamming an insane number of stealths.

you people should not treat rangers like they are really that bad. i once killed 2 thieves 1 mesmer with the help of a single ranger ally. you guys have been fighting a lot of bad rangers too much.

So you win against thieves 90% of the time but also want them to be nerfed? Really?

Sounds like either rangers should be nerfed or thieves should be buffed. Real balance would mean its a 50:50 chance of winning a 1vs1.

Anyone know what server has claimed Valentine here??

Why don’t you ask him in a pm?

Valentin.2073:

these people called the engi a noob. he was a really good engi

God, ROFL

I find it amusing how Thieves defends the Mechanic as if it is flawless, and everyone else points the finger as if it is completely broken…

IMHO, The stealth mechanic is a little imbalanced, due to some issues:
- Never understood how Stealth isn’t busted under certain conditions, like bleed or burning (Visually it makes sense);

- Perma-Stealth (or almost there) builds. This is not fun to play against! No1 is speaking about winning or loosing, but the mechanic itself. Hit and run, regen and repeat is ridiculous. Why not to deny HP regeneration under stealth?

- Stealth is by far the best survival mechanic. One thing MMO gaming so far told us, is that survival is opposed to damage dealt. The highest the chances a class has to survive, the smaller the damage he should dealt! Balance factors applies here. Would it be possible to reduce healing and damage dealt when casted from Stealthed (like 1st attack)?

Would this be too many of a nerf? Or it would be acceptable?

Valentin.2073:

Cynz.9437:

he still ignored my offer to duel me lol

i’m sure you’re gonna play a braindead condi banner warrior instead. if you want to duel me pls use something that requires skills and timing.

And this comes from a clicker who keyboard turns. For descent players who knows how to best control their characters… any of your opinions about what is op and what is not is irrelevant since u still didn’t even learn proper game control patterns which should be obvious ( I for example and probably many others never keyboard turned) and which seriously handicaps your playing abilities, specially the keyboard turning. Your keyboard bashing ( I’m sorry for your laptop) in your video also don’t show your “skill”, you don’t have to hit rapid fire button 10 times for it to work, doesn’t matter that its 10 hit shot.

quote=3606024;Azukas.1426:]

We had someone like you on our server.. spouting about how easy Thieves are to fight and that only noobs lose to them.
We then had a Thief causing problems in one of our camps so we sent Mr ‘Thief killer’ to deal with the Thief… The Thief killed him and so the big mouthed moron logged off in embarrassment – not seen him log on in WvW since.

Budchgon.2108:

quote=3606024;Azukas.1426:]

We had someone like you on our server.. spouting about how easy Thieves are to fight and that only noobs lose to them.
We then had a Thief causing problems in one of our camps so we sent Mr ‘Thief killer’ to deal with the Thief… The Thief killed him and so the big mouthed moron logged off in embarrassment – not seen him log on in WvW since.

lol I have seen that same scenario a few times.

Eloquence.5207:

Let’s steer the discussion back on track.

How does OP (or anyone else) propose to change stealth-spam? How would you change other aspects of Thieves? You must address both points because Thieves will just QQ and derail the topic again with, “zomg, stealth is all we have!”

the rangers sword/dagger is the playstyle what i image for thives. stealth is a bad mechanism.

A couple months ago I was pretty annoyed by thief stealth spam. My main is an engi and I killed maybe about 75% of the thieves I came across while roaming.

After getting my butt handed to me a couple times in a row I decided to level a thief in WvW to better understand the mechanics. I haven’t lost to a solo thief since then. Heck, I soloed 2 thieves roaming together on my uplevel warrior yesterday.

The reason people keep saying l2p is because that’s exactly the problem. Once you understand how a thief works than they will only beat you if they are legitimately better than you.

Sure, coz WvW full of incredible noobs, who didnt even understand how to play their own class, but they thinks they can decide what to nerf in the anothers

Let’s take d/p thief. He puts pistol 5 field and start heartseeking there... and? noone, NO F ONE will put at that field some another AOE-DPS field or just control to this place. The same with the "house" skill - noone CCing that place or placing AOE there.

It’s easy to understand if you have played thief (I have 2 thieves: direct-DPS and condi-thief), but ppl so lazy - sure, whining at forums is far easier ><

SilverWF.4789:

Sure, coz WvW full of incredible noobs, who didnt even understand how to play their own class, but they thinks they can decide what to nerf in the anothers

Let’s take d/p thief. He puts pistol 5 field and start heartseeking there… and? noone, NO F ONE will put at that field some another AOE-DPS field or just control to this place. The same with the “house” skill – noone CCing that place or placing AOE there.

It’s easy to understand if you have played thief (I have 2 thieves: direct-DPS and condi-thief), but ppl so lazy – sure, whining at forums is far easier ><

I know right? 90% of the time that is how I killed them, I see them lay black powder and I spam attacks there and then watch as they pop up in the downed state.

Jim Hunter.6821:

I know right? 90% of the time that is how I killed them, I see them lay black powder and I spam attacks there and then watch as they pop up in the downed state.

That’s I’ve talked about, mate

Valentin.2073:

I just started playing wvw. I used to just play pvp before for more than half a year and I noticed that thieves use stealth beyond normal in wvw. I dont know why they are allowed to do that in wvw. It’s not fun fighting them at all.

I play as a zerker ranger and it takes a lot of effort for me to kill a thief. I can beat them theres no problem about that but i dont think that they are even exerting any effort to the fight. most of the times they will stealth then run far away, reset and come back. it is lame, no-skill and braindead.

Perma-stealthing is real.

Thieves taunt unendingly while spamming one skill and stealthing in-between.

I can down or kill most other characters – even a warrior – but in the year plus that I have played I have never been able to kill a thief.

Everyone I talk to tells me that GW1 was more about skill and calculations that made sense – but with this there are no ways to “calculate” and become even a single trick pony just to kill thieves.

Budchgon.2108:

Azukas.1426:

If I watch a thief 1v3 people I kill the thief while educating the 3 who are getting schooled

We had someone like you on our server.. spouting about how easy Thieves are to fight and that only noobs lose to them.
We then had a Thief causing problems in one of our camps so we sent Mr ‘Thief killer’ to deal with the Thief… The Thief killed him and so the big mouthed moron logged off in embarrassment – not seen him log on in WvW since.

If your quoting is as bad as your playing I can understand your feelings. j/k

That being said once you learn a thief (and you don’t even need to play one) they become ez killz. Sometime you run into a good player, but can be dealt with.

McWolfy.5924:

the rangers sword/dagger is the playstyle what i image for thives. stealth is a bad mechanism.

I’ll just assume you really do not realize what you are wishing for us. The day they make thief sword like the the horrible rooting ranger sword I will quit.

At release thieves didn’t need stealth, rendering took care of that issue. Invisi rendering spam 2 thieves, anyone remember those days?

You’d be in the wilderness and suddenly WTF happened to my health!!?? During those times you couldn’t see at all so I always had my effects turned up and ANYTIME I heard a thief stealth skill go off or heard a d/d skill 2 fire I would dodge and spin around for action. Sometimes seeing it was one of my allies that had performed the action -.-

Things have actually gotten better since then.

I suggest that you provide persistent, polite, proscriptive and pressing feedback to anet to get thieves fixed. As a long time thief, I’d like to see perma stealth eliminated and on demand stealth while in combat eliminated to make this class more challenging.

the perma-stealth mechanic should be nerfed to oblivion in wvw, imo. i think majority who don’t main thief and some actual thieves are getting annoyed by it. zerker thieves should have the same survivability as other professions (eg. eles, rangers, mesmers, necro and guardians) who use the same build.

Sanduskel.1850:

I suggest that you provide persistent, polite, proscriptive and pressing feedback to anet to get thieves fixed. As a long time thief, I’d like to see perma stealth eliminated and on demand stealth while in combat eliminated to make this class more challenging.

The thing is, nothing will happen until enough players start leaving the game because of it. It’s a lot of work for no return. If they won’t make any money off of redesigning the profession so why should they put in the work. I fear that competitive play in GW2 will forever be plague by this awful mechanic.

Julie Yann.5379:

Sanduskel.1850:

I suggest that you provide persistent, polite, proscriptive and pressing feedback to anet to get thieves fixed. As a long time thief, I’d like to see perma stealth eliminated and on demand stealth while in combat eliminated to make this class more challenging.

The thing is, nothing will happen until enough players start leaving the game because of it. It’s a lot of work for no return. If they won’t make any money off of redesigning the profession so why should they put in the work. I fear that competitive play in GW2 will forever be plague by this awful mechanic.

i still have hope in the dev’s. if they could gather enough evidence on how this mechanic is getting abused, im sure they will fix it.

How is it being abused? Stealth is what the thief is built around. It is their best source of damage, damage mitigation, healing, condition removal, etc.

This whole thread would be like if thieves were complaining that rangers used pets. Instead of calling for nerfs to other classes why don’t you try to get yours buffed so it is viable for something other than roaming. Maybe ask to get the broken pet ai fixed, or at least give you better control over them. Hell GW1 gave you better pet control.

Jim Hunter.6821:

How is it being abused? Stealth is what the thief is built around. It is their best source of damage, damage mitigation, healing, condition removal, etc.

This whole thread would be like if thieves were complaining that rangers used pets. Instead of calling for nerfs to other classes why don’t you try to get yours buffed so it is viable for something other than roaming. Maybe ask to get the broken pet ai fixed, or at least give you better control over them. Hell GW1 gave you better pet control.

Anet used that term, abused. They referenced the ability to remain in stealth while remaining in combat. NO OTHER PVP GAME does stealth this way and EVERY OTHER GAME HAS HARD COUNTERS to stealth. These two choices, made just to say we are different, make stealth laughably opd in this game. Some of us thieves don’t rely on this perma crutch and do just fine, so your first point is inaccurate.

Sanduskel.1850:

Jim Hunter.6821:

How is it being abused? Stealth is what the thief is built around. It is their best source of damage, damage mitigation, healing, condition removal, etc.

This whole thread would be like if thieves were complaining that rangers used pets. Instead of calling for nerfs to other classes why don’t you try to get yours buffed so it is viable for something other than roaming. Maybe ask to get the broken pet ai fixed, or at least give you better control over them. Hell GW1 gave you better pet control.

Anet used that term, abused. They referenced the ability to remain in stealth while remaining in combat. NO OTHER PVP GAME does stealth this way and EVERY OTHER GAME HAS HARD COUNTERS to stealth. These two choices, made just to say we are different, make stealth laughably opd in this game. Some of us thieves don’t rely on this perma crutch and do just fine, so your first point is inaccurate.

Actually, other MMOs DO allow you to re-enter stealth while in combat, something I recall letting you know before. However, I agree it’s not to this level, and most of those moves are around the same cooldown time as Blinding Powder and Shadow Refuge.

So people would rather have 3-10+ thieves sitting in stealth (truly constant stealth like traditional MMO stealth) camping somewhere in WvW and all backstabbing at the same time out of nowhere than have the thief be able to stealth while in combat but be able to see the thief coming and prepare for them?

With traditional MMO stealth this is exactly what would happen. I remember in DAoC 20-50 stealthers all camping one choke point waiting for some sucker/group to come along and be their next gank target. At least here you can see the thief coming from a distance and prep for a fight.

Personally that would kitten me off a lot more than the current system.

PS: As a thief I would fee a lot safer in WvW with traditional MMO stealth, just sayin.

this thread is going strong. i appreciate all your responses, guys. let’s keep presenting all our ideas to fix this broken class.

to the friendly thieves: my intention is not to offend you but to help you balance your class. it’s a lot more fun to play a balanced class than an overpowered one.

SonOfKrypton.4357:

When playing as a thief I try to mess with the other player’s mind. Nothing is more satisfying than running straight towards a Warrior, watch them pop Signet of Rage as I keep running past them. Just laughing at their persistence to kill me when I’ve done nothing to threaten them except be NEAR them.

There’s this weird misconception that in WvW every player has to kill every player. That isn’t the case at all. You don’t HAVE to kill the thief. You don’t HAVE to loot the [Large Scale] off of his/her body, let it go.

I ask, WHY do you NEED to kill the thief. If they’re spamming stealth, walk away. The main ways for them to get stealth is to Cloak and Dagger off you, or to Heartseeker through their Blinding Powder. In either case if you’re walking away and dodging Cloak and Dagger, they can’t stealth. If they’re busy Heartseekering through their Blinding Powder multiple times, you can put more distance between them and you.

It’s such a non-issue and I think it all comes down to superiority complex that is part of human nature and mixed with this pre-conditioned bloodlust to assert dominance over a complete stranger. You don’t HAVE to fight them. Don’t play their game if you don’t want to.

Walk away.

According to your logic “you dont have to play game”

Cynz.9437:

another zergling refusing to learn how to fight other class

I like how this guy didn’t even the OP’s entire post before replying lol. WvW isn’t meant to be super balanced like spvp is, which is why the d/d ele is still useful in wvw but completely useless in spvp. If it bothers you that much, just run around with 10 supply and stealth traps, when a thief starts hitting you, dodge, put your stealth trap down, and dodge again, instant stealth debuff on the thief. OR just stop playing ranger, because everyone knows it’s a broken class outside of spvp

Valentin.2073:

this thread is going strong. i appreciate all your responses, guys. let’s keep presenting all our ideas to fix this broken class.

to the friendly thieves: my intention is not to offend you but to help you balance your class. it’s a lot more fun to play a balanced class than an overpowered one.

Deleted your video allready ? Oh no you didnt, here it is —-———→

Jim Hunter.6821:

How is it being abused? Stealth is what the thief is built around. It is their best source of damage, damage mitigation, healing, condition removal, etc.

This whole thread would be like if thieves were complaining that rangers used pets. Instead of calling for nerfs to other classes why don’t you try to get yours buffed so it is viable for something other than roaming. Maybe ask to get the broken pet ai fixed, or at least give you better control over them. Hell GW1 gave you better pet control.

I thought steal is Thief’s class mechanic.

Eloquence.5207:

Jim Hunter.6821:

How is it being abused? Stealth is what the thief is built around. It is their best source of damage, damage mitigation, healing, condition removal, etc.

This whole thread would be like if thieves were complaining that rangers used pets. Instead of calling for nerfs to other classes why don’t you try to get yours buffed so it is viable for something other than roaming. Maybe ask to get the broken pet ai fixed, or at least give you better control over them. Hell GW1 gave you better pet control.

I thought steal is Thief’s class mechanic.

Did I say class mechanic or did I say what they are built around. They have a ton of traits that require them to go into stealth to activate, hell they have attack skills that only work when in stealth.

You can’t call for removing stealth, like so many people in this thread have been doing, without completely rebuilding the profession. If they are going to rebuild a profession they should start with the broken kitten ranger. I’d much rather see spend time sorting that mess out rather than wasting time on thieves that really aren’t that hard to fight.

Why build around stealth in the first place? It’s a lazy and flawed design. Just because it is seemingly the only build, doesn’t mean it is automatically fair and balanced.

Yes, by all means tweak other Thief traits/skills, but I bet most would still go for the path of least resistance and play a stealth mode. Therefore, stealth needs to be looked at amongst other potential builds.

Again, only thing they need to fix is the easy access to stealth from D/P (namely with Black Powder’s smoke field appearing on the enemy target instead of on the thief). That’s it, it’ll stop most of the complaints with that alone, Jim.

Thieves are only OP to uplevels and people running around in full zerker gear because they don’t have the health or armor to survive the quick burst.

To put out that kind of damage the thief also has to build extremely glassy.

Solution is to use this new thing called situational awareness and lay down some damage, or better yet some aoe, and collect bags.

I’m not saying you will win 100% of the time but that has less to do with stealth and more to do with some players are just going to be better than you. This goes double for people that handicap themselves by clicking and keyboard turning.