Guild Wars 2

With all this ‘Stealth is OP’ stuff going around, I find it odd how that supposed fact melts away when facing skilled opponents.

Stealth is a very powerful defense for sure, and it is hard to combat if you are not used to dealing with it. But trust me. Once you learn how to deal with it, it is not that difficult. When you get two skilled stealth thieves fighting it is quite an intense fight. And I have beaten stealthed thieves with non thief characters before and been beaten by non thief players when playing a stealth thief. It is all about knowing how to use and defend against it.

There are things in this game I find difficult. And when I come up against those things I try to find a way to beat it. If I cannot find a way to beat it, I will ask for advise. I have not found anything yet that has not been combated somehow by myself or by others.

So instead of complaining about it, I feel a better use of your time would be to request advise on the subject. Because quite frankly, judging by the latest thief traits, stealth is here to stay.

As an axe/shield warrior I don’t have that much problem against stealth thieves since I can stun them and burst them down quite hard (especially if we are group fighting).
I actually have a lot more troubles against S/D thieves that just evades everything, but at least it’s a high skillcap build so you don’t really see them a lot.

What I find really annoying about thieves is their downed state game tho. it requires 3 stomp to be able to stomp them so it’s actually faster and easier to finish them off manualy. That’s fine when they’re alone, but when they have friends, it’s way too easy for them to rally their downed thief. Other frustrating situation is when you down a thief’s friend, and he just get stealthed and rallied without you being able to do anything.

People defending stealth thieves just don’t get it. People play a game for fun. Despite the fact that other classes have strong builds, the reason people harp on thieves is:

Fights with warriors are enjoyable.
Fights with guardians are enjoyable.
Fights with eles are enjoyable.
Fights with rangers are enjoyable.
Fights with necros are enjoyable.
Fights with engineers are enjoyable.
Yes, even fights with mesmers are enjoyable.
Stealthed thief, not.

This thread makes me want to play my thief even more. It makes me all giggly.

Johje Holan.4607:

People defending stealth thieves just don’t get it. People play a game for fun. Despite the fact that other classes have strong builds, the reason people harp on thieves is:

Fights with warriors are enjoyable.
Fights with guardians are enjoyable.
Fights with eles are enjoyable.
Fights with rangers are enjoyable.
Fights with necros are enjoyable.
Fights with engineers are enjoyable.
Yes, even fights with mesmers are enjoyable.
Stealthed thief, not.

Speak for yourself. I enjoyed fighting thieves on my ranger.

Stealth is OP only against weak opponents. When it’s fight on equal (equaly high, not low) skill level, it’s balanced. By nerfing stealth in one area they will break balance in other one.
Btw I hated stealth too until I made thief myself and learned it – it’s much less spammable that I thought and ALL things depends on it – condi cleanse, self heal, burst, avoidance. So thief has to choose unlike CD based classes.

Regen in stealth too big? Don’t be funny. Warr regens more all the time while thief has to use his resources to get this regen and also doesn’t fight at this time but only waits for hp.

Terkov.4138:

Regen in stealth too big? Don’t be funny. Warr regens more all the time while thief has to use his resources to get this regen and also doesn’t fight at this time but only waits for hp.

Except warriors have to give up on having an actual heal to get that regen. Not saying thief regen is op but don’t compare what is not comparable.

And by the way, there are a lot of non completely stealth based thief build that are actually stronger than the stealth D/P build. But yeah, they’re not as lame, and they are a harder to play (except for the condi thief which is extremely easy and even more lame).

chibbi.3706:

Terkov.4138:

Regen in stealth too big? Don’t be funny. Warr regens more all the time while thief has to use his resources to get this regen and also doesn’t fight at this time but only waits for hp.

Except warriors have to give up on having an actual heal to get that regen. Not saying thief regen is op but don’t compare what is not comparable.

They do have a trait similar to Shadow’s Rejuvenation in Adrenal Health

Yes, except it regens 3 times less, and Terkov here was talking about warrior regening more.

Terkov.4138:

Johje Holan.4607:

People defending stealth thieves just don’t get it. People play a game for fun. Despite the fact that other classes have strong builds, the reason people harp on thieves is:

Fights with warriors are enjoyable.
Fights with guardians are enjoyable.
Fights with eles are enjoyable.
Fights with rangers are enjoyable.
Fights with necros are enjoyable.
Fights with engineers are enjoyable.
Yes, even fights with mesmers are enjoyable.
Stealthed thief, not.

Speak for yourself. I enjoyed fighting thieves on my ranger.

Stealth is OP only against weak opponents. When it’s fight on equal (equaly high, not low) skill level, it’s balanced. By nerfing stealth in one area they will break balance in other one.
Btw I hated stealth too until I made thief myself and learned it – it’s much less spammable that I thought and ALL things depends on it – condi cleanse, self heal, burst, avoidance. So thief has to choose unlike CD based classes.

Regen in stealth too big? Don’t be funny. Warr regens more all the time while thief has to use his resources to get this regen and also doesn’t fight at this time but only waits for hp.

Your first sentence: The amount of complaints about thief vs. other classes would suggest that you are in the minority.

The rest of what you said is irrelevant. (And yes I have a thief too. But its not based on stealth – nor conditions).

Johje Holan.4607:

Fights with warriors are enjoyable.
Fights with guardians are enjoyable.
Fights with eles are enjoyable.
Fights with rangers are enjoyable.
Fights with necros are enjoyable.
Fights with engineers are enjoyable.
Yes, even fights with mesmers are enjoyable.
Stealthed thief, not.

Fights vs stun warriors were not fun, but I adapted now they’re fun to fight.
Fights vs bomb kit/turret knockback engies were not fun, but I adapted now they’re fun to fight
Fights vs condi necros were not fun, but I adapted now they’re fun to fight.
And fights vs stealth thieves were not fun, but now they are.

There are plenty of builds that are frustrating to fight against, but once you learn how to counter them you wonder why you got so annoyed in the first place.

If I cannot beat a stealth thief and he cannot beat me, I think ‘oh well’ and we part ways and carry on with our lives. I do not lose sleep over it and I do not get frustrated by it, because at the end of the game it is only a game. If I cannot beat an enemy player, that is my fault, not the games.

To be honest I think the game is pretty well balanced (not completely of course, but good enough). But the problem you will always have is that different players have differing levels of skill, and some players have found a build that fits perfectly with their play style, while others make do. The point is, stealth can be beaten, players beat it all the time, it is just a matter of the skill and build to player synergy that determines the outcome of a fight, not whether a mechanic is broken or not. If stealth was truly OP, no one would be able to beat it, yet I see stealth thieves, good ones too, get stomped all the time.

I still think though, that the revealed debuff should trigger everytime you exit stealth, rather than only when you deal damage. That small and acceptable change would make a world of difference my opinion, without it breaking the mechanic.

chibbi.3706:

Terkov.4138:

Regen in stealth too big? Don’t be funny. Warr regens more all the time while thief has to use his resources to get this regen and also doesn’t fight at this time but only waits for hp.

Except warriors have to give up on having an actual heal to get that regen. Not saying thief regen is op but don’t compare what is not comparable.

And by the way, there are a lot of non completely stealth based thief build that are actually stronger than the stealth D/P build. But yeah, they’re not as lame, and they are a harder to play (except for the condi thief which is extremely easy and even more lame).

Except thieves have to trait a grandmaster slot for that sort of healing when only in stealth, and warriors get additional healing with a minor trait. I agree it’s not comparable, but you just made a comparison, so expect others to lol.

Most thieves will admit the d/p is simply lame and the easy access to frequent stealth is just a bit too much. Even though I have no issues fighting d/p thieves, I still find them annoying. Are they broken of overpowered? Not at all, they’re weak actually. They just happen to use stealth to a degree that makes them a troll more so than an actual enemy. I don’t consider d/p thieves to be any more annoying than GS warriors though in WvW, but neither are broken. They’re just silly, that’s all. And then you claim condi thief is even more lame… which is funny. Apparently everything thieves do is lame unless they’re sticking to a non-stealth burst build to you, which kinda tells us what kind of person you are. You don’t want to fight different viable builds for every class, and that’s fine I guess. Just don’t post on this forum without expecting thieves to bathe in your tears just because you can’t learn to handle some of our most viable builds at the moment. (Btw, the only people you can blame for the increase in P/D condi popularity is Anet, not thieves. This is what happens when the backstab damage output in a standard D/D backstab build is nerfed by almost 40%. Deal with it.)

Where do you see me crying or even complaining about thieves ? All I said was thieves has better and stronger builds than D/P that doesn’t need stealth because the guy above me said nerfing stealth would break thief balance.
I do find P/D thieves really lame tho and way too easy to play considering how effective this is but I don’t complain about it.
And that’s not Anet’s fault if you guys play it. Thieves are not forced to play either backstab or condi. I’m thinking mostly about S/D here, this is probably the strongest thief build right now, and yet you barely see anyone playing it (beside sPvP). So yeah, it has a high learning curve, and I guess most WvW player don’t want to practice something that’s hard to play when they could just play D/P and kill every bad wvw player they meet while running away from every good player. (or condi and just win most duels without much effort)

I think S/P has far more use than S/D even though I love the play-style of the latter, but there are people who QQ about Pistol whip! The thing about D/P is blind Spam and the thing about P/D is the condi bunkers running around, the moral of the story is you’ll find someone QQ’ing about some build in WvW because there isn’t much balance.

Roll eng and l2p. Thieves are now loot bags.

To those talking about blaming the thief or Anet. Of course its Anets fault. When people complain about something being op or lame or not fun or anything else, they’re complaining to Anet. They’re not blaming the player for playing something that Anet designed.

The design of stealth and thieves and stealth thieves in particular is just bad game design. That’s Anets fault 100%.

I play a thief, but oddly enough, I’ve never cared for a stealth build. Since my crit build got a slight nerf, and stealth got a boost in that it is much harder to fight against, I feel like Anet is trying to force all thieves into a stealth mold. I really don’t want to do it, because I don’t like the play style, but it looks like it’s going that way.

The main problem versus stealth thieves is that it’s hard for many classes or at least for many builds of many classes to break their stealth or stun them long enough to get a kill. With my build, I can often beat a stealth thief in the sense that I can outdamage and outlast him, but I don’t actually win because he either gives up and runs away or waits until I think the fight is all over to pounce again. Actually getting a 1v1 kill on a stealth thief almost never happens for me because of this.

I realize that there are weapons/skills/traits that I could go for that would make me more effective against stealth thieves, but I don’t think the game should revolve around designing your character to deal with one specific type of player in WvW.

I hear you there Nutjob. Anet seems too focused on stealth, when it is already powerful enough as it is. What we need are more options for steal or evade or inititive, so please Anet stop adding to our already full stealth toolbox.

As to not building to fight a specific mechanic, I also agree with that. But I do not believe you have to. A good stun/knockback build will work just fine and can be useful against all professions. And if you are roaming (the most likely place to meet a stealth thief) you really should be running with some form of CC and anti CC anyway. But yeah I agree, no one should have to build to defeat a specific build.

godz raiden.2631:

He’s right though. Whenever I roam on my thief in WvW I tie a blindfold around my head to make fights fair. After about a half hour I untie my blindfold to see what has happened. I’m always running into a wall somewhere close to spawn, so I can only assume that I have defeated at least 100 enemies at that point. And that’s with a d/d setup. I could probably get at least 200 kills using the same method if I used d/p.

This made me laugh way more then it should have.

Good game ……. good game

Straegen.2938:

D/P will continue to be broken as long as HS and BP are easily spammed. D/D took a significant hit with the Ferocity changes. Bursting is much more difficult.

I would be cool with it if they took the gap closer out of HS, and left the dmg output. Without the gap closer there would be less ability to just spam HS at certain points in the fight…Hopefully forcing the player to logically use their skills.

My point is that big dmg is fine, but big dmg that also negates a lot of an enemy’s kiting ability is what makes it questionable.

Rin.1046:

What we need are more options for steal or evade or inititive, so please Anet stop adding to our already full stealth toolbox.

You don’t need more options for steal evade etc.
You already have it.
Strongest thief build in sPvP right now is sîzer’s 2/0/0/6/6. And guess what ? It’s strength comes from the fact that this build evades most of the kitten that would hit you while having insanely good mobility, and from the fact that your steal ability becomes really kitten good.
But for some reason, close to noone cares for this build in WvW (and it’s not about lacking escape, mobility + refuge is more than enough to get out of almost any sticky situation)

True, steal does have a lot of options already. My main point was though, is that we had enough options for stealth already, we didn’t need any more.

chibbi.3706:

Yes, except it regens 3 times less, and Terkov here was talking about warrior regening more.

You were claiming they had to sacrifice their healing slot for it. Truth is, they do have a trait similar to Shadow’s Rejuvenation, which is a major Grandmaster trait (6 points) where Adrenal Health is a minor in Master tier (3 points).

chibbi.3706:

.. I’m thinking mostly about S/D here, this is probably the strongest thief build right now, and yet you barely see anyone playing it (beside sPvP). …

S/D doesn’t just have a steep learning curve, it has a learning plateau. It is the experienced players that can learn to play it, a novice will fail trying this build and, most likely, not be able to learn from the failure.

chibbi.3706:

But for some reason, close to noone cares for this build in WvW (and it’s not about lacking escape, mobility + refuge is more than enough to get out of almost any sticky situation)

Try it in Wvw yourself then? Maybe it doesn’t work so well with all the extra +stats, large groups and frequent lag.

whatever we say here about pvp , i will add what dollies said me to my ear … they don’t want my guardian to help them , but my thief

You can beat any class using just 5>2>1 with a D/P. Just that combo and nothing else.

I would have a lot less of a problem with thieves if they would remove the downstate from WvW or give every profession an aoe reveal skill. I was fighting two thieves and after downing them several times they finally killed me because I couldn’t stomp them.

Stealth Thieves Still OP

Bad Players Still Terrible

Galsia.4102:

Stealth Thieves Still OP

Bad Players Still Terrible

I see you are a GW2 prodigy.

Oh wait… Thief, Warrior AND Engi

Players who play with spammable invisibility thief argument?

L2P.

I only have one thing to say:

S P A M M A B L E I N V I S I B I L I TY.

Sound balanced and ENJOYABLE to play against. Like someone else said before, spammable invisibility thief don’t get it.

inb4, i kill a lot of thief, i have a kitteng necro. I spam aoe and that is all. But is STILL kittened play a whack-a-mole every time i find a thief in a never ending combat because the thief go stealth and stealth and stealth every time when is about to die. And come to attack me again and again and again.

People still play shadow arts thieves???

A thief’s power in WvW comes from being able to pick your fights and disengage almost at will. This is what people find annoying, which is understandable. In this case you should simply learn your role and accept this is the thief’s role.

Personally I find it entertaining to plan ways to lock down and kill the thief. Takes a little understanding of game mechanics and class mechanics, so I can understand why the whiny casuals have such a problem with them.

Thief, outside of condi-cheese, is very low on my list of annoyances.

Thieves are OP. can take 10 people 10 minutes to kill one.

I don’t have any class that can run into 10 people, and survive for 10 minutes.

Hell, the some thieves can kill those 10 people, before 10 minutes, because they can hit so hard.

I liked the original thread title where the OP admits he’s an idiot. Was more entertaining than the thread content.

Just change stealth so thief cant combo stealth but get new ability F2 give stealth 1min/1minCD must be out of combat,they are still stealthy but lose the endless stealth power when in combat

After the April Patch, in my opinion, I think thief is not as deadly as it used to be.
My chance of being 2 shots are much lower now, and many thieves simply just run away from me after I hit them with a few conditions.

Thieves are only OP in escaping from open field battle now.

Thiefs can, like no other class, pick their fights.
If they see they can’t beat someone in 1 v 1 they’ll just walk away and no one will catch them, but as long as they have the upper hand they’ll stick around even if they’re heavily outnumbered because, again like no other class, they can afford to.
When they get out of stealth having bonus damage is another op factor.
They are always in control, and then theres stomp from stealth.
Before you say stability, you can strike someone with stability and if you’re lucky enough get him down too.

I think thiefs should get a debuff on damage when they get out of stealth, like no crits for 4 seconds.

Myst.5783:

Takes a little understanding of game mechanics and class mechanics, so I can understand why the whiny casuals have such a problem with them.

Myst.5783 Signature: Currently playing: Mesmer/Ele/Thief

Please! Enlighten us how to whack-a-mole a stealth spammer!

Aomine.5012:

After the April Patch, in my opinion, I think thief is not as deadly as it used to be.
My chance of being 2 shots are much lower now, and many thieves simply just run away from me after I hit them with a few conditions.

Thieves are only OP in escaping from open field battle now.

Actually you can kill someone with a thief. The difference with others classes is the thief can try it unlimited times without risk.

regardless of whether or not a skilled player can counter a high stealth thief, the implementation of the stealth mechanic in this game is kittenED, and quite simply NOT FUN to fight against.

I can usually beat thieves if I try, but I usually don’t bother because it’s just tedious and not fun at all.

Johje Holan.4607:

People defending stealth thieves just don’t get it. People play a game for fun. Despite the fact that other classes have strong builds, the reason people harp on thieves is:

Fights with warriors are enjoyable.
Fights with guardians are enjoyable.
Fights with eles are enjoyable.
Fights with rangers are enjoyable.
Fights with necros are enjoyable.
Fights with engineers are enjoyable.
Yes, even fights with mesmers are enjoyable.
Stealthed thief, not.

I disagree… As a warrior, my favorite fights are against thieves.

Nickeloneon.8714:

Johje Holan.4607:

People defending stealth thieves just don’t get it. People play a game for fun. Despite the fact that other classes have strong builds, the reason people harp on thieves is:

Fights with warriors are enjoyable.
Fights with guardians are enjoyable.
Fights with eles are enjoyable.
Fights with rangers are enjoyable.
Fights with necros are enjoyable.
Fights with engineers are enjoyable.
Yes, even fights with mesmers are enjoyable.
Stealthed thief, not.

As a warrior

I see what you did there.

One thief can still keep a waypoint contested without showing themselves long enough to do anything about it. If one gets inside a keep, a half decent one is impossible to kill without a massive manhunt and even then often requires multiple stealth traps and getting lucky.

Every competitive game is just a really complicated form of rock-paper-scissors. Say you’re consistently losing to paper, so you spec into scissors, only to find that now you lose to rock.

There’s no build that can win every fight. If you don’t want to die, you have to know when to run.

In a game with this much diversity of mechanics, there will always be builds that take less skill than others, and people will always find and exploit them. But yes, some builds will succeed where others fail, and unless you have a direct counter with you, you have to choose between death and running away.

Andred makes a point.

However, How do you even trait/spec. to fight a highly skilled stealth thief with each profession? There are virtually NO skills or traits that REMOVE stealth, so perma stealth thieves just wear you down without even taking a hit.

Yesterday, I watched 14 people try and fail to kill a D/P perplexity Thief. These kinds of Thieves I usually prefer to avoid so instead of being a victim of the troll I decided to observe… This guy, no matter how close to dying he got, would always vanish before he crossed the 10%< mark and reappear a few seconds later with 70%>… He was never killed, just eventually made a run for it.
I crossed him shortly afterwards and wanted to see how I measured up, even if I knew it was completely one sided… So I thought before engaging, let’s make this as in my favor as possible. I equipped as many immobilizes as possible, as well as “Sic’m!” and dropped Spike Trap and Viper’s Nest at my feet. Waiting a few seconds for him to make the first move, I pegged him with a Poison Volley, he moved in, got nuked with my traps, I used Muddy Terrain to pin him down, he ported out as I thought he might, I then used Entangle followed by “Sic’m!” and proceeded to nuke his feet with traps, Bonfire from offhand torch and Throw Torch, got him to 10% of his health and what happens? He vanishes, I again nuke my feet with traps and prepare a Muddy Terrain for his reappearance but instead… I find him with 80% of his health /laughing on a hill behind me…

Now, I can admire talent, I have no problems with a talented Thief. But it’s one thing to be talented, a whole other thing to be talented with a build that doesn’t require any…
On the bright side he never killed me… Just ended up giving me another few hits and running off when I kept stacking bleeds on him. I know that’s a “win” when fighting a Thief, if they run off… But that whole D/P perplexity condition build thing is just stupid beyond words.

For the record, I don’t think stealth is “OP.” I think line of sight abuse and the ability to perpetually reset fights is. No one should have as much control over a fight as a Thief does, not even a Thief. No one should be c__ky enough to engage a dozen + people without hesitation and still have a 60% chance of escaping alive.

Hello,

Since we are receiving a lot of feedback about this topic, we are gathering it in a dedicated thread. You are very welcome to repost your question, comments and concerns in this discussion.

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