Guild Wars 2

Well, this is definitely a different post – hearing about the experience from the other side (the thief side). Regardless, this will end up in linksville just like the other thief post. I agree with your post though.

Xsorus.2507:

PVE it’s fine, even in structured it’s fine to some extent.

However in World vs World, I can flat out say..Stealth needs to be changed.

Now I know some people are going to be like “Oh look someone died in pvp to a stealther and now is whining”

Actually, its the opposite..I just got done playing my Thief in world vs world…and frankly i’m disgusted how easy it is to play the class out there.

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

There is no real disadvantage to playing the class at all….

So as a thief, I’m asking Anet to actually nerf stealth in world vs world..Make it somewhat challenging at least..

it so easy to counter or kill a thief. this is more L2P issue more than anything else.

Here we go again…

I actually didn’t have any problems last night against thieves. Its either YB thieves suck or I am getting used to fighting them.

Anatolian Turk.4057:

Xsorus.2507:

PVE it’s fine, even in structured it’s fine to some extent.

However in World vs World, I can flat out say..Stealth needs to be changed.

Now I know some people are going to be like “Oh look someone died in pvp to a stealther and now is whining”

Actually, its the opposite..I just got done playing my Thief in world vs world…and frankly i’m disgusted how easy it is to play the class out there.

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

There is no real disadvantage to playing the class at all….

So as a thief, I’m asking Anet to actually nerf stealth in world vs world..Make it somewhat challenging at least..

it so easy to counter or kill a thief. this is more L2P issue more than anything else.

No, it’s not a L2P issue..Bout the only thing people who fight me can do is run to larger numbers or run away (elementalist case)

I think i’m actually going to have to start recording some of my time on my thief again…..It’s frankly though getting silly at this point.

I dont mind thiefs able to get away from fights, since it is a sneaky class.
The problem i have is the damage they do..
Doing like 15k damage or more in like 3-5 seconds to a high toughness guardian is crazy
Thiefs/assasins should be good in killing weakened enemies.
And are bad in a normal 1 on 1 fight.

So nerf the damage to enemies with more then 60% health with a lot like 200-500 hits max. But keep the damage to players below 60% health like it is now.
changing the thief in an assasin, instead over an overpowered duelist.

Sry but if a guardian have problems against a thief he needs to learn how his class works! Guardian is a very good counterclass for thiefs!

If you take away stealth or nerf it the thief class becomes pretty much useless, if you know how to counter thiefs you won’t have any problems with them.

I personally play my guardian 99% of my time, I stomp everyone in a 1 on 1 fight as well, it’s just a matter of skill and knowing how to build your class.

I used to get frustrated by glass cannon thief that take you down in what seems 1 hit, but if you’re focused, you can see it coming.. and even on a bunker guardian you’re able to take out a glass cannon thief in 1 whirling wrath.

WvW is not made to play solo and people you come across 1on1 often are pugs or PvE’rs trying to do a jumping puzzle, not hard to stomp those.. other classes may be not good in 1 on 1 fights but they excel in team play (engineer is awesome for heals etc).

Necro’s good at crowd control (fears, chill, immobilize, cripple depending on weapon set), which is why I think I’m getting used to thieves. “Oh, that’s cute, you’re trying to get behind me to stab me for 7k, nope! Eat some marks.”

Stealth is still OP though in its current state. Whether or not that’s because of culling is yet to be determined if they actually ever fix culling.

Sceinna.3561:

If you take away stealth or nerf it the thief class becomes pretty much useless, if you know how to counter thiefs you won’t have any problems with them.

I personally play my guardian 99% of my time, I stomp everyone in a 1 on 1 fight as well, it’s just a matter of skill and knowing how to build your class.

I used to get frustrated by glass cannon thief that take you down in what seems 1 hit, but if you’re focused, you can see it coming.. and even on a bunker guardian you’re able to take out a glass cannon thief in 1 whirling wrath.

WvW is not made to play solo and people you come across 1on1 often are pugs or PvE’rs trying to do a jumping puzzle, not hard to stomp those.. other classes may be not good in 1 on 1 fights but they excel in team play (engineer is awesome for heals etc).

Stealth doesn’t need to be taken away..

However it does need a nerf.

For example, I run basically full Shamans Gear (vit/healing power/condition damage) This gives me around 22k HP, about 800-900 Healing Power/and about 1300 Condition Damage with my stacks up.

Whenever i stealth, i regen 600 Health every second while in stealth…I also remove Conditions whenever i enter Stealth.

I can throw down poison field (via shortbow) that doesn’t break stealth, and I can also drop Caltrops as well (also doesn’t break stealth)

Generally when fighting a group, I’ll just keep doing that till someone goes down, and then they get a caltrops ontop of them while i’m stomping, Anyone who moves in to res gets to eat a bunch of stacks of bleeds…..

I can apply over a minute of Poison to you in a few seconds…. and I can keep doing it (also applies about 20-25 seconds of weakness as well)

I seem to remember devs saying something about not having permastealth coz it’s idk…forgot what they said exactly why it’s not cool.

They’ve done a good job, instead of figthting players it’s an exercise in spotting and predicting = spot the little black puff indicating stealther’s there + where’d he go, left, right, back, forward, ran away, preparing attack, I wonder how much HP he has left. It’s like a minigame.

IMO doesn’t need anything drastic done.
Just either give them a slight damage reduction
or nerf how easy it is for them to stealth that much.

Personally thieves don’t bother me though (1v1 situation anyway)
Small skirmishes (talking about 5-10 v 5-10ish) is a different story though.

I was starting to worry ’cause the daily “nerf thief” thread was missing.
I really feel better now, thanks.

1 laurel for OP.

@Xsorus: Sure stealth is an addon for D/D, but it’s an absolute requirement for S/D and P/D. They should probably just nerf Dagger Mainhand instead of making the sets that absolutely require frequent stealth to be effective, useless.

Dual.8953:

@Xsorus: Sure stealth is an addon for D/D, but it’s an absolute requirement for S/D and P/D. They should probably just nerf Dagger Mainhand instead of making the sets that absolutely require frequent stealth to be effective, useless.

Lol what can D/D do without stealth? Spam Heartseeker ?

I have a thief as well, and with current cullings it is OP. 1 vs 1 I win almost all the times (except vs thief). Either 100% fix culling (that means INSTANT VISIBLE PLAYERS after a cloack effect), or nerf cloacking in wvw (only wvw!).

Lets be fair. Anet will not upgrade servers. So culling will still exists on slow system, no way they can fix that, no matter how positive Habid (developper), is. Conclusion: nerf culing, by nerfing cloacking.

I may be dumb programming wise, but I don’t get why in a 1 vs 1 fight (no skill lag, wich means the server has enough resources – skill lag = 3-way Stonemist castle fight), Enemies show up 2 secs after cloacking. Yesterday a thief, hitted me 4x before he appeared. I pressed closest enemy like madness, and even after the ‘revealed’ smoke, i couldnt target him. Wich I for god sake need on my mesmer if I want to put illusion on him.

Anet tell me this: If you turn camera, GPU is 100% ready for it. It all has it calculated, and is barely slowed down by this. Why do you remove cloacked players from the enemies clients gpu? Cause lets face it. If the gpu still knows the cloacked player is there. With all the teraflops available, it’s incredible piece of cake to make them 100% invisible/Visible in a matter of microseconds. The fail on Anet side is, that they unplug cloacked players frmo the enemy clients, and let the servers intructions queue be the decisive matter in when you see the thief.

Also in my opinion backstab is OP. Now don’t flame me. I like the skill and wanna keep it as it is tbh. But the crazy damage multiplier on top of 100% berserker builds (2,5 or more multiplier), is a bit off tbh. Even on a 2600 armor build (almost max a light armor can reach, without sacraficing damage to much), they kitten (9k damage). Wich means to simple backstabs = win. (And with traits they can do at least 3 backstabs (even 4 if they crit enough and the trait on crit gives them some iniative back (minor trait 15 points ,berserker tree), before running out of Initiative.

Karolis.4261:

Dual.8953:

@Xsorus: Sure stealth is an addon for D/D, but it’s an absolute requirement for S/D and P/D. They should probably just nerf Dagger Mainhand instead of making the sets that absolutely require frequent stealth to be effective, useless.

Lol what can D/D do without stealth? Spam Heartseeker ?

Utility stealth for the much loded BS combo (it’s already on a cool down) or they can the condition and dish out massive bleeds to multiple opponents with Deathblossom.
Also assuming they only increased revealed to say 10 seconds, the BS combo would still work and so would deathblossom, and S/D would have nothing that S/P could do better, and P/D would become P/P without Unload or Black Powder.

Sceinna.3561:

If you take away stealth or nerf it the thief class becomes pretty much useless, if you know how to counter thiefs you won’t have any problems with them..

true….

Infact asking to solve the stealth issue is not asking to nerf thieves.
The point is the class needs huge changes some huge nerfs and some huge compensation.

Stealth (as it is) + burst is one of the worse idea i ever seen in a VG.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

I have a thief as well, and with current cullings it is OP. 1 vs 1 I win almost all the times (except vs thief). Either 100% fix culling (that means INSTANT VISIBLE PLAYERS after a cloack effect), or nerf cloacking in wvw (only wvw!).

Lets be fair. Anet will not upgrade servers. So culling will still exists on slow system, no way they can fix that, no matter how positive Habid (developper), is. Conclusion: nerf culing, by nerfing cloacking.

I may be dumb programming wise, but I don’t get why in a 1 vs 1 fight (no skill lag, wich means the server has enough resources – skill lag = 3-way Stonemist castle fight), Enemies show up 2 secs after cloacking. Yesterday a thief, hitted me 4x before he appeared. I pressed closest enemy like madness, and even after the ‘revealed’ smoke, i couldnt target him. Wich I for god sake need on my mesmer if I want to put illusion on him.

Anet tell me this: If you turn camera, GPU is 100% ready for it. It all has it calculated, and is barely slowed down by this. Why do you remove cloacked players from the enemies clients gpu? Cause lets face it. If the gpu still knows the cloacked player is there. With all the teraflops available, it’s incredible piece of cake to make them 100% invisible/Visible in a matter of microseconds. The fail on Anet side is, that they unplug cloacked players frmo the enemy clients, and let the servers intructions queue be the decisive matter in when you see the thief.

Also in my opinion backstab is OP. Now don’t flame me. I like the skill and wanna keep it as it is tbh. But the crazy damage multiplier on top of 100% berserker builds (2,5 or more multiplier), is a bit off tbh. Even on a 2600 armor build (almost max a light armor can reach, without sacraficing damage to much), they kitten (9k damage). Wich means to simple backstabs = win. (And with traits they can do at least 3 backstabs (even 4 if they crit enough and the trait on crit gives them some iniative back (minor trait 15 points ,berserker tree), before running out of Initiative.

Do you know how hard it is to land full backstab on a good player. Oh and dont say basilisk venom.

The worst part about stealth is that it makes bad Thief players. Meaning that if you took the stealth away, all these Cloak and Dagger spam Thieves would be downed in a few seconds, because they have never learned how to move as a Thief.

It’s funny when people say it’s a learn to play issue, when the problem is not that the Thief is impossible to kill. The problem is that it’s way too easy to play like this, and it’s never fun to play against. It could be easily balanced by nerfing stealth, and then give the Thief a bit of defensive boons in return, like aegis and stability. But Cloak and Dagger spam Thieves would still complain, because they love the fact that it is so easy to play. This is the core of the problem.

Xsorus.2507:

PVE it’s fine, even in structured it’s fine to some extent.

However in World vs World, I can flat out say..Stealth needs to be changed.

Now I know some people are going to be like “Oh look someone died in pvp to a stealther and now is whining”

Actually, its the opposite..I just got done playing my Thief in world vs world…and frankly i’m disgusted how easy it is to play the class out there.

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

There is no real disadvantage to playing the class at all….

So as a thief, I’m asking Anet to actually nerf stealth in world vs world..Make it somewhat challenging at least..

I watched your Ranger Pain Inverter 1 video. The first fight is vs a thief and you destroyed him.

So what is it? A thief can take 5 players with no problem at all? BS much? Based on your video, a single thief can barely handle a ranger which is considered a free kill for the thief. In that case, buff thief and stealth!!!

This thread is a bust. Mod please close.

IMO there are two types of thieves that need to be looked at. Stacked glass canon thieves that steal/backstab on tough targets for 12k+ and grief thieves that annoy the hell out everyone (hide in keeps by CnD walls, keep waypoints locked down, destroy canons, pester players, etc).

Power and Crit Dmg should have diminishing returns at some point and this goes for all classes. No single character should be able to dish 20k of damage in 1-3 seconds. As for stealth, every time a thief stealth skill runs out they should hit the stealth cooldown. It still makes them powerful but they would no longer have long periods of stealth. They should also not be able to CnD on an inanimate object.

LordByron.8369:

The point is the class needs huge changes some huge nerfs and some huge compensation.

so a thief can finally become a warrior.

Karolis.4261:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

snip.

Do you know how hard it is to land full backstab on a good player. Oh and dont say basilisk venom.

Easy. The only players hard to target is elementalist, with incredible fast run forward abilities. Fleet shadow trait = garanteed hit, if you can follow the player. If ran in circles, dodged like madness on my mesmer ,and they still hit perfect backtstabs. And if a thief knows BS is gonna fail, he just trows ‘dancing dagger’. Wich is almost 100% ensurance the next one hits. There’s many professions not equipped with speed abilities. (like mesmer), or ranger/necromancer without signet. Or guardian without boon build. They simply CANNOT outrun a thief. They can’t. So the thief wins. Shadow step utility is the only thing a thief needs to kill a player. I’ve only seen one profession escape my grasp, and it was an elementalist spamming ride the lightning as fast as he could. Without delay. It was close but he escaped with 20% health. Other professions, no chance to escape me. Just as my other professions (i got 6x 80) barley have a chance of escaping a thief.

This is all about 30 SA/30 berserker tree, 10 acrobatics (superior popular) build, with heal whilte stealthed, increased stealth duration, two initiative gain on cloack use, fleet shadow, 100% crit rate on stealth etc. That build is near perfection. Especially fully berserker. Two backstabs (full berserker), kill almost any profesison, unless he has 3k+ armor. With this build a thief can land 3-4 backstbs before running out of energy. Not much punishment for failing their attacks. Other thief builds however are easy to counter, if you have a bit experience. Anet should focus on balanced this specific build.

If only one of the traits in this build is moved, nerfed, or removed, then thiefs imo should be balanced.

Straegen.2938:

IMO there are two types of thieves that need to be looked at. Stacked glass canon thieves that steal/backstab on tough targets for 12k+ and grief thieves that annoy the hell out everyone (hide in keeps by CnD walls, keep waypoints locked down, destroy canons, pester players, etc).

Power and Crit Dmg should have diminishing returns at some point and this goes for all classes. No single character should be able to dish 20k of damage in 1-3 seconds. As for stealth, every time a thief stealth skill runs out they should hit the stealth cooldown. It still makes them powerful but they would no longer have long periods of stealth. They should also not be able to CnD on an inanimate object.

Inanimate object?

Like how ele/guardian/thief can block siege weapon?

If thief cannot CnD on inanimate object then ele/guardian/thief should not be able to block siege.

Deal?

Sifu.6527:

Straegen.2938:

IMO there are two types of thieves that need to be looked at. Stacked glass canon thieves that steal/backstab on tough targets for 12k+ and grief thieves that annoy the hell out everyone (hide in keeps by CnD walls, keep waypoints locked down, destroy canons, pester players, etc).

Power and Crit Dmg should have diminishing returns at some point and this goes for all classes. No single character should be able to dish 20k of damage in 1-3 seconds. As for stealth, every time a thief stealth skill runs out they should hit the stealth cooldown. It still makes them powerful but they would no longer have long periods of stealth. They should also not be able to CnD on an inanimate object.

Inanimate object?

Like how ele/guardian/thief can block siege weapon?

If thief cannot CnD on inanimate object then ele/guardian/thief should not be able to block siege.

Deal?

Umm i think that is a bug not intended…….so yes deal…

There are certain major problems regarding the idea of a stealth “nerf.” Namely, the fact that Thieves possess bottom-tier Health, minimal access to Stability/Boons. Now, if one could modify those problems, then – indeed – it would be possible to make Stealth a little less “comfortable” to get into. As it is now, Stealth and movement speed honestly are a Thief’s “durability.” (Especially now that their former leadership of movespeed Signet has been compromised). Now, as someone with an 80 Thief, I will say some things need changed. For example, the long-known CnD > Wall business is absolutely ridiculous. Mug, for it’s burst potential, probably should be more of a Trait investment, or be given a small (like 1-2 sec.?) delay.

I have a thief and a D/D ele, and I think both need a small nerf in different areas.
D/D Ele needs a nerf to health regen.
Thief needs a nerf to perma stealth.

The above is of course just my opinion, but when I play them, I feel a bit OP to be honest.

My D/D ele can take on 3+ enemies solo because of the constant boons and health regeneration (Running Daphoenix (sp?) build).

My Thief is able to walk right out to enemy siege while they are using it and start taking it (or the person operating it, or both) out without being seen once.

Yesterday my guildteam witnessed 2 thiefs making shadfow refugee, a group of 20 people entered, and thats the last we saw of them (they were roughly 8-10 sec. run away from us). Luckily we spotted them and were prepared for incoming, which came, invisible of course. So there we were spamming aoe against an invisible force attacking us. In the mid fight 2-3 of them appeared, then when the match was over we could see most of them again. Still a couple of “red” guys popped up a bit after the actual fight. This is what stealth plus culling does. Players WILL abuse this mechanic as long as it is not considered an offensive exploit. Was this intended Anet? Is this how you want WvW to be played?

killimandros.5087:

Yesterday my guildteam witnessed 2 thiefs making shadfow refugee, a group of 20 people entered, and thats the last we saw of them (they were roughly 8-10 sec. run away from us). Luckily we spotted them and were prepared for incoming, which came, invisible of course. So there we were spamming aoe against an invisible force attacking us. In the mid fight 2-3 of them appeared, then when the match was over we could see most of them again. Still a couple of “red” guys popped up a bit after the actual fight. This is what stealth plus culling does. Players WILL abuse this mechanic as long as it is not considered an offensive exploit. Was this intended Anet? Is this how you want WvW to be played?

Yes working as intended.

If you would, go watch some of the guild vs guild fights (25v25). Almost all fights begin with mesmer’s veil ability. At least with SF, there is a limit on how many players it will stealth. There is no such limit on the mesmer’s veil ability.

Yes, stealth is OP in wvw. Often I see a small group of like 3 thieves play tricks on larger groups of like 15 people for extended periods of time because of stealth rezzing and stealth stomping. So even if you kill a thiev they often succeed in stealth stomping or stealth rezzing. Now while its partially a l2p issue, wvw is with randoms and so you have little influence on the people you play with.

D W.5179:

The above is of course just my opinion, but when I play them, I feel a bit OP to be honest.

My D/D ele can take on 3+ enemies solo because of the constant boons and health regeneration (Running Daphoenix (sp?) build).

And that is when you should remember how upleveling works….

No way you can kill 3 players of your same skill level with a D/D tanky ele….nor 2.
But not even 1 if its a tank.

D W.5179:

I have a thief and a D/D ele, and I think both need a small
D/D Ele needs a nerf to health regen.
Thief needs a nerf to perma stealth.

My D/D ele can take on 3+ enemies solo because of the constant boons and health regeneration (Running Daphoenix (sp?) build).

My Thief is able to walk right out to enemy siege while they are using it and start taking it (or the person operating it, or both) out without being seen once.

Yarr, I be usin ’da known “Daphoenix” build, before it be known as such. I was mighty feared that it be discovered and circulated amongst the masses and abused, and alas, it has.

I also be thinkin that the problems be not lyin ‘wit thieves themeslves, but with the currect culling system in WvW. In PvE, the stealth be not long, but in WvW, culling be affecting the rendering o’ the player after stealth. If culling is fixed, stealth be fixed.

’da problem be not with stealth, but ’wit culling.

is thief still an issue in wvwvw ?
for real now, with all those aoe stuns /knockback /heals, do you belive stealth is an issue ?
And most roaming groups are formed by classes with group utility’s and crowd control, not by thieves.

It’s always funny when someone comes on here and claims they want their own class nerfed. I call BS. The OP got pwned and now wants to feel better by asking for a nerf.

Sifu.6527:

killimandros.5087:

Yesterday my guildteam witnessed 2 thiefs making shadfow refugee, a group of 20 people entered, and thats the last we saw of them (they were roughly 8-10 sec. run away from us). Luckily we spotted them and were prepared for incoming, which came, invisible of course. So there we were spamming aoe against an invisible force attacking us. In the mid fight 2-3 of them appeared, then when the match was over we could see most of them again. Still a couple of “red” guys popped up a bit after the actual fight. This is what stealth plus culling does. Players WILL abuse this mechanic as long as it is not considered an offensive exploit. Was this intended Anet? Is this how you want WvW to be played?

Yes working as intended.

If you would, go watch some of the guild vs guild fights (25v25). Almost all fights begin with mesmer’s veil ability. At least with SF, there is a limit on how many players it will stealth. There is no such limit on the mesmer’s veil ability.

I just went through all class mechanics, responses from Anet on this issue, and I cant find anywhere where it is stated that in a group of 25++ fighting each other, it is intended that one of them should be able to stay stealthed, incvisible, for 20++ seconds, not including the time it takes from the stealth was cast to the moment the combat started (in this case about 8-10 secs). If you have other info, please highlight it and preferably link to official response/explanation. As far as I know, no class should be able to stealth themselves, permanent or for such a long duration. Not to mention a full warband. Am I wrong? Add this into huge battles, the ones at the upper tiers, and you can see the immense lag this creates as well. ANd yes, I have a fully decked thief so I know what I can do to stay permastealthed and stealth many people for long duration times. I am kinda hoping it was not intended, because it is so out of balance, specially to classes with little to no AoE.

Sifu.6527:

Inanimate object?

Like how ele/guardian/thief can block siege weapon?

If thief cannot CnD on inanimate object then ele/guardian/thief should not be able to block siege.

Deal?

I don’t find this to be particularly game breaking but since thieves at one time could reflect balista with their spin, I would say it is a fair trade.

killimandros.5087:

Sifu.6527:

killimandros.5087:

Yesterday my guildteam witnessed 2 thiefs making shadfow refugee, a group of 20 people entered, and thats the last we saw of them (they were roughly 8-10 sec. run away from us). Luckily we spotted them and were prepared for incoming, which came, invisible of course. So there we were spamming aoe against an invisible force attacking us. In the mid fight 2-3 of them appeared, then when the match was over we could see most of them again. Still a couple of “red” guys popped up a bit after the actual fight. This is what stealth plus culling does. Players WILL abuse this mechanic as long as it is not considered an offensive exploit. Was this intended Anet? Is this how you want WvW to be played?

Yes working as intended.

If you would, go watch some of the guild vs guild fights (25v25). Almost all fights begin with mesmer’s veil ability. At least with SF, there is a limit on how many players it will stealth. There is no such limit on the mesmer’s veil ability.

I just went through all class mechanics, responses from Anet on this issue, and I cant find anywhere where it is stated that in a group of 25++ fighting each other, it is intended that one of them should be able to stay stealthed, incvisible, for 20++ seconds, not including the time it takes from the stealth was cast to the moment the combat started (in this case about 8-10 secs). If you have other info, please highlight it and preferably link to official response/explanation. As far as I know, no class should be able to stealth themselves, permanent or for such a long duration. Not to mention a full warband. Am I wrong? Add this into huge battles, the ones at the upper tiers, and you can see the immense lag this creates as well. ANd yes, I have a fully decked thief so I know what I can do to stay permastealthed and stealth many people for long duration times. I am kinda hoping it was not intended, because it is so out of balance, specially to classes with little to no AoE.

I tried to search for it but I couldn’t find it. Nor could I find anything that would hint it is an exploit or not intended.

I re-read your original post and I am confused. I thought Shadow Refuge only affected 5 players…is this incorrect?

Sifu.6527:

killimandros.5087:

Sifu.6527:

killimandros.5087:

Yesterday my guildteam witnessed 2 thiefs making shadfow refugee, a group of 20 people entered, and thats the last we saw of them (they were roughly 8-10 sec. run away from us). Luckily we spotted them and were prepared for incoming, which came, invisible of course. So there we were spamming aoe against an invisible force attacking us. In the mid fight 2-3 of them appeared, then when the match was over we could see most of them again. Still a couple of “red” guys popped up a bit after the actual fight. This is what stealth plus culling does. Players WILL abuse this mechanic as long as it is not considered an offensive exploit. Was this intended Anet? Is this how you want WvW to be played?

Yes working as intended.

If you would, go watch some of the guild vs guild fights (25v25). Almost all fights begin with mesmer’s veil ability. At least with SF, there is a limit on how many players it will stealth. There is no such limit on the mesmer’s veil ability.

I just went through all class mechanics, responses from Anet on this issue, and I cant find anywhere where it is stated that in a group of 25++ fighting each other, it is intended that one of them should be able to stay stealthed, incvisible, for 20++ seconds, not including the time it takes from the stealth was cast to the moment the combat started (in this case about 8-10 secs). If you have other info, please highlight it and preferably link to official response/explanation. As far as I know, no class should be able to stealth themselves, permanent or for such a long duration. Not to mention a full warband. Am I wrong? Add this into huge battles, the ones at the upper tiers, and you can see the immense lag this creates as well. ANd yes, I have a fully decked thief so I know what I can do to stay permastealthed and stealth many people for long duration times. I am kinda hoping it was not intended, because it is so out of balance, specially to classes with little to no AoE.

I tried to search for it but I couldn’t find it. Nor could I find anything that would hint it is an exploit or not intended.

I re-read your original post and I am confused. I thought Shadow Refuge only affected 5 players…is this incorrect?

If 3 thieves pop it, thats 15 people. Not hard to organize. Add the mesmer line and then its invisible wb. Shadow refuge is preferred because it holds stealth the longest, intentionally. It also abuses the culling the most because of that. 7 seconds become 15 seconds no problem in huge battles. You wont see this is pve or spvp because the numbers arent comparable and big enough to create a problem. Playing my thief in spvp is like playing another class.

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

PVE it’s fine, even in structured it’s fine to some extent.

However in World vs World, I can flat out say..Stealth needs to be changed.

Now I know some people are going to be like “Oh look someone died in pvp to a stealther and now is whining”

Actually, its the opposite..I just got done playing my Thief in world vs world…and frankly i’m disgusted how easy it is to play the class out there.

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

There is no real disadvantage to playing the class at all….

So as a thief, I’m asking Anet to actually nerf stealth in world vs world..Make it somewhat challenging at least..

I watched your Ranger Pain Inverter 1 video. The first fight is vs a thief and you destroyed him.

So what is it? A thief can take 5 players with no problem at all? BS much? Based on your video, a single thief can barely handle a ranger which is considered a free kill for the thief. In that case, buff thief and stealth!!!

This thread is a bust. Mod please close.

Yes, a thief died because he chose to spam his attacks while he had 5 seconds of confusion on him.

Yes, sometimes bad players do actually die in pvp.

I’m recording more video for another Thief Video….I’ll try and post it here in next few days showing how silly it gets.

As a thief, if they /Anet) cant fix the culling, numbers of people stealthed/abuse of stealth, id rather see it being removed. Yes. Instead add camouflage maybe, or add tricks to the tief class like hard to catch. Making them more evasive, faster and increase range of pistol. Give them some symbols maybe? I dont know, fact is, it doesnt work, like it is right now. It just doesnt work.

Kasama.8941:

The worst part about stealth is that it makes bad Thief players. Meaning that if you took the stealth away, all these Cloak and Dagger spam Thieves would be downed in a few seconds, because they have never learned how to move as a Thief.

It’s funny when people say it’s a learn to play issue, when the problem is not that the Thief is impossible to kill. The problem is that it’s way too easy to play like this, and it’s never fun to play against. It could be easily balanced by nerfing stealth, and then give the Thief a bit of defensive boons in return, like aegis and stability. But Cloak and Dagger spam Thieves would still complain, because they love the fact that it is so easy to play. This is the core of the problem.

I support this post.He speak directly reason and problem.
Am boring about somebody say L2P or AoE to kill thife.
AoE can kill you but no stupid thife stay in AoE ring got it?

I’ve long maintained that as a thief player I am OP. Even tonight I stomped a number of opposing server players. Never died once and escaped with relative ease every time.

Most people that don’t want the changes to thief, exclusively use thief and have no real perspective. I have a number of geared up lvl 80’s now and I use my thief when I want to relax in WvW. I do a lot with very little effort.

In many ways I don’t want my thief to be nerfed because I have so much fun with it. What makes me ask for a nerf is because I have perspective. When I play on my other toons, it’s just insane what a thief can do.

Your topic will soon be merged with the other topic enjoy it while it lasts here.

OP is targeting low levels and other thieves.

Also attack a large group of people and kill all of them. Yea this one made me rofl. Large group of people like what? 3

Also OP says Thief is fine in PvE!!! Thats news to me. When I run a dungeon or fractals I go on my mesmer its like 10x better at PvE than my thief. What are you running in PvE? The same glass you are in WvW since thats what it sounds like your running. If so then you must not be running alot of PvE. I love my thief but its the last class I want in a group if Im running a dungeon. I’m not saying I would kick a thief I wouldn’t but its just I prefer not to have one in the group when I PvE. I just keep that thought to myself and deal with it.

SoPP.7034:

I’ve long maintained that as a thief player I am OP. Even tonight I stomped a number of opposing server players. Never died once and escaped with relative ease every time.

Most people that don’t want the changes to thief, exclusively use thief and have no real perspective. I have a number of geared up lvl 80’s now and I use my thief when I want to relax in WvW. I do a lot with very little effort.

In many ways I don’t want my thief to be nerfed because I have so much fun with it. What makes me ask for a nerf is because I have perspective. When I play on my other toons, it’s just insane what a thief can do.

Its the ease at which they can win fights against multiple people, and escape…

Or hell just escape..

My Ranger can win fights against people….hell even thieves if they’re stupid…But if I run across a bunch of players i’m screwed, if I screw up, I can’t just reset the fight…I’m screwed..

Sceinna.3561:

I stomp everyone in a 1 on 1 fight as well, it’s just a matter of skill and knowing how to build your class.

I used to get frustrated by glass cannon thief that take you down in what seems 1 hit, but if you’re focused, you can see it coming.. and even on a bunker guardian you’re able to take out a glass cannon thief in 1 whirling wrath.

WvW is not made to play solo

So many points to pick apart.

• If you stomp everybody else, that means you’re exceptional. You are not an ordinary player. I am sure you agree that the game should be aimed at ordinary players, rather than the exceptional few.

• Why should everybody except the thief be “focused” all of the time for fear of being killed in 2 seconds?

• I play bunker guardian and cannot take out a glass cannon thief in 1 whirling wrath – I have much experience trying. I am beginning to believe you made up the entire post (especially the bit about you stomping everybody).

• If WvW is not meant to be played solo, then why are thieves allowed to?

killimandros.5087:

As a thief, if they /Anet) cant fix the culling, numbers of people stealthed/abuse of stealth, id rather see it being removed. Yes. Instead add camouflage maybe, or add tricks to the tief class like hard to catch. Making them more evasive, faster and increase range of pistol. Give them some symbols maybe?

Haha symbols! Give them some spirit weapons! Lol!

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

PVE it’s fine, even in structured it’s fine to some extent.

However in World vs World, I can flat out say..Stealth needs to be changed.

Now I know some people are going to be like “Oh look someone died in pvp to a stealther and now is whining”

Actually, its the opposite..I just got done playing my Thief in world vs world…and frankly i’m disgusted how easy it is to play the class out there.

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

There is no real disadvantage to playing the class at all….

So as a thief, I’m asking Anet to actually nerf stealth in world vs world..Make it somewhat challenging at least..

I watched your Ranger Pain Inverter 1 video. The first fight is vs a thief and you destroyed him.

So what is it? A thief can take 5 players with no problem at all? BS much? Based on your video, a single thief can barely handle a ranger which is considered a free kill for the thief. In that case, buff thief and stealth!!!

This thread is a bust. Mod please close.

Yes, a thief died because he chose to spam his attacks while he had 5 seconds of confusion on him.

Yes, sometimes bad players do actually die in pvp.

I’m recording more video for another Thief Video….I’ll try and post it here in next few days showing how silly it gets.

So it basically comes down to skill and learning to play!

A thief can take on 5 people if those players are clueless but would have a hard time vs 1 good player. Seems balance to me.

killimandros.5087:

As a thief, if they /Anet) cant fix the culling, numbers of people stealthed/abuse of stealth, id rather see it being removed. Yes. Instead add camouflage maybe, or add tricks to the tief class like hard to catch. Making them more evasive, faster and increase range of pistol. Give them some symbols maybe? I dont know, fact is, it doesnt work, like it is right now. It just doesnt work.

is thief, not ninja
thief = stealthed
detected thief = dead
works as intended

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

PVE it’s fine, even in structured it’s fine to some extent.

However in World vs World, I can flat out say..Stealth needs to be changed.

Now I know some people are going to be like “Oh look someone died in pvp to a stealther and now is whining”

Actually, its the opposite..I just got done playing my Thief in world vs world…and frankly i’m disgusted how easy it is to play the class out there.

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

There is no real disadvantage to playing the class at all….

So as a thief, I’m asking Anet to actually nerf stealth in world vs world..Make it somewhat challenging at least..

I watched your Ranger Pain Inverter 1 video. The first fight is vs a thief and you destroyed him.

So what is it? A thief can take 5 players with no problem at all? BS much? Based on your video, a single thief can barely handle a ranger which is considered a free kill for the thief. In that case, buff thief and stealth!!!

This thread is a bust. Mod please close.

Yes, a thief died because he chose to spam his attacks while he had 5 seconds of confusion on him.

Yes, sometimes bad players do actually die in pvp.

I’m recording more video for another Thief Video….I’ll try and post it here in next few days showing how silly it gets.

So it basically comes down to skill and learning to play!

A thief can take on 5 people if those players are clueless but would have a hard time vs 1 good player. Seems balance to me.

No, a bad thief would have a hard time against 1 good player, a good thief would not..

Magiofdeath.2745:

Well, this is definitely a different post – hearing about the experience from the other side (the thief side). Regardless, this will end up in linksville just like the other thief post. I agree with your post though.

Hell, I’ve been saying this for months, I stopped playing my 80 thief because it’s an imbarassingly easy class to curbstomp people with. Any of you kids playing them should be imbarrassed for picking and continuing to play such an imbarrassingly OP class.

I can stealth into a zerg, DPS someone down, restealth, stomp and SB out in about 5 seconds without taking 1 damage. I did it all the time, literally.

If I get into a fight and start getting wrecked, Just TP/SB/Stealth out, reset the fight, go back in and curbstomp the poor fool(s) that used all their cooldowns to try to kill me.

Anyone that is Pro-stealth as is is really just kidding themselves. It’s way out of whack probably because of the culling. But they really need to make a short term fix until they can get culling fixed or it’s going to cost a lot of players.