Guild Wars 2

I agree.
I’m only play thief and i think that the revealed debuff should have a increased cooldown after 2 uses of stealth in the same fight in WvW.

What Im confused about is how this thread is supposed to be about stealth in WvW and how it came to purely focus on the thief. The thing is I think Veil is the most OP stealth ability in the game.

sostronk.8167:

What Im confused about is how this thread is supposed to be about stealth in WvW and how it came to purely focus on the thief. The thing is I think Veil is the most OP stealth ability in the game.

Veil has a 90 second cd with a 4 second stealth duration… 5 second if the Mesmer traits for it even then it only affects him… Most mesmers only use it at the request of their party members because the cooldown is obscenely long for a slot skill and the utility is minimal at best when compared to nullfield/feedback… You are also forgetting engi’s can do the same thing as veil when they toss an elixir… and Rangers can hide in plain sight… The difference here is the skills are not spammable and the players get no ADDED benefit of being in stealth other than hey you can’t see me… No extra damage in their attacks no condition removal from being stealthed nothing like that… Thief gets most perks and spammable stealth in game which makes sense to a degree but they need to take out some of the perks of stealth that are specific to a thief class. That is why they get griped about the most… Sure veil and the toss elixir are great… but nowhere near as potent as thief stealth skills.

Wreckdum.8367:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArWxfaeeYu4

Edit: Look how excited at the end he is that he 1v1’d me. lol

I did come close to winning that player vs air battle though by dropping stuns and knockbacks on…. nothing and hoping he was there. Awesome game ANet. Very fun for both parties involved!

yeah that is pretty ridiculous actually

Example of my thief abusing the crap out of stealth.

Wreckdum.8367:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArWxfaeeYu4

Edit: Look how excited at the end he is that he 1v1’d me. lol

I did come close to winning that player vs air battle though by dropping stuns and knockbacks on…. nothing and hoping he was there. Awesome game ANet. Very fun for both parties involved!

That was me I just trolled your group you got killed by another thief. I wasn’t actually trying to kill any of you just trolling.

The jumping around is what people do all the time to annoy another person to try to make them fight thats what I was doing there. Notice how the person there said all I could do is stealth but that is pretty much all I could do with arrow carts and 4-5 of you.

I remember the reason I attempted to distract you guys was because we were getting attacked at Anz or about to take it so I went to go and try to distract some reinforcements.

Instead you guys waited around to try and kill me. I’m sorry but honestly you could have left and did something else like the other people that eventually left. I couldn’t have stopped you.

Cripple, Immobilize, and any AOE in existence has a good chance of screwing the Thief. Their high mobility is the trade-off they get of non-existent defensive stats.

I’ve yet to ever have a problem fighting any Thief in WvW. I AOE spam and they either leave or die.

oZii.2864:

Wreckdum.8367:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArWxfaeeYu4

Edit: Look how excited at the end he is that he 1v1’d me. lol

I did come close to winning that player vs air battle though by dropping stuns and knockbacks on…. nothing and hoping he was there. Awesome game ANet. Very fun for both parties involved!

That was me I just trolled your group you got killed by another thief. I wasn’t actually trying to kill any of you just trolling.

The jumping around is what people do all the time to annoy another person to try to make them fight thats what I was doing there. Notice how the person there said all I could do is stealth but that is pretty much all I could do with arrow carts and 4-5 of you.

I remember the reason I attempted to distract you guys was because we were getting attacked at Anz or about to take so I went to go and try to distract some reinforcements.

Instead you guys waited around to try and kill me. I’m sorry but honestly you could have left and did something else like the other people that eventually left. I couldn’t have stopped you.

I agree with your last statement but they didn’t need our help and that kinda takes away from the fact that stealth is completely ridiculously OP and needs a longer revealed debuff.

Imagine there was a team fight there instead of us just fooling around. 4-5 thieves doing what you’re doing. The fact is 1 thief can keep a large number of players busy and still do extremely high damage.

This isn’t fun for everyone else that has to stand there and take it. You said it yourself. Our counter is to run away. That’s unacceptable in a PvP balance debate. I kinda have the same attitude toward D/D eles right now. Lately I’ve just been sitting back like high overlord watching the different classes and seeing how drastically different they get played.

The large majority of D/D eles move through the battlefield like they are gods walking with mortals. Just breezing through a zerg by themselves with impunity. No fear of getting CC locked and dying.

Thieves are to the same effect but because people keep losing their target. When you see them by the time you have them targeted and your projectile travels to them they’re gone again.

Mesmers… IMO mesmer is almost obnoxious that it is even allowed to be what it is. It’s basically all the most OP aspects of other classes rolled in to one. Stealth ruining any hope of targeting in a flawed targeting system to begin with. Clones… targeting system nightmare once again. Portal. Time warp… 10 second quickness (with no side effects).

These 3 classes make up the majority of WvW and sPvP. Why? Because they are all blatantly broken. Or everything else is just severely underpowered. I’d be willing to accept the latter. They are supposedly 3 of the most fragile classes in the game but through traits and whatnot end up being the most survivable.

A warrior is supposed to have “a sturdy body” but is actually one of the least survivable. Sure we can take a hit if we’re full PTV geared out and tank traited (which actually most classes can)… But we can also get CC’d into oblivion which kind of negates all that tankyness. It’s like I’m trapped in the MMO twilight zone.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. If a warrior beats you in a 1v1 and you’re not also a warrior, he beat you because he is working 300% harder.

Sorry I segued from thief stealth to WvW balance. I am just really passionate about this game making it in the long term and as it stands I think balance is it’s biggest opponent. And I refuse to hop the thief, mesmer or D/D ele bandwagon. (Don’t get insulted if you’ve been playing one for awhile please. That’s why I said bandwagon. =P) I’ll stick with my warrior until I stop playing GW2. Which hopefully will be later rather than sooner.

Wreckdum we have mutual friend in Jackie from my server so its no ill will at all just difference of opinion.

From my perspective I look at it as WvW and by holding up your group (or what I assumed I was doing) I felt I did my part. When I hold up 4-5 people I always think why don’t they just leave and go get a camp. You can’t use team fight for WvW because that’s not what WvW is about its about objectives. A thief is better served in distraction etc than he is on top of a keep trying to defend. You can do both jump down 100bs a group maybe down them and go back inside at the same time you could pull out your rifle and do really good damage defending.

I am not saying a thief SB is terrible I love shortbow but I would rather have a Warrior up top pumping the rifle and a thief down below confusing and distracting the enemy than have them both up top.

The way I see it using your video of me is my goal was to distract your group while we took anzalaz I felt that I did what I set out to do. What was the goal of your group at the time? I didn’t kill any of you at all so the way I see it is if your group wasn’t planning to go take an objective as you say then and I didn’t in fact distract you guys.

The same thing could have been accomplished if we all played costume brawl right outside of spawn nothing! No ppt was affected at all then.

Wreckdum.8367:

The large majority of D/D eles move through the battlefield like they are gods walking with mortals. Just breezing through a zerg by themselves with impunity. No fear of getting CC locked and dying.
.

Really tired of urban legends from newbies….

Please explain us how an ele is supposed to do that…
Feel free to browse wiki that is possibly the only experience you have with eles.

And forum is full of this…..and this is why our OFFENSIVE capabilities have been nerfed.

You think is fair? if so i think most player will question your experience in game.

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy96IsNrMa0

Example of my thief abusing the crap out of stealth.

Looked for the abuse, couldn’t see it. Saw a group of players being seriously outplayed by their own pets, lots of green arrows and lots of npc clutter.
You think that being able to beat people who stand in caltrops, don’t cc, range attack into a reflect, and are upleveled means that stealth is op? The ele. and mesmer at least target you not the npcs showing that you are rendering just fine.
Maybe you are right though and they did deserve to win that fight by just auto attacking because there were more of them.

Roysten.3456:

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy96IsNrMa0

Example of my thief abusing the crap out of stealth.

Looked for the abuse, couldn’t see it. Saw a group of players being seriously outplayed by their own pets, lots of green arrows and lots of npc clutter.
You think that being able to beat people who stand in caltrops, don’t cc, range attack into a reflect, and are upleveled means that stealth is op? The ele. and mesmer at least target you not the npcs showing that you are rendering just fine.
Maybe you are right though and they did deserve to win that fight by just auto attacking because there were more of them.

If I would of been on my Ranger, i would of been dead in the first 3 minutes of that fight.

the very fact that I can stealth and “reset” the fight whenever i want or move behind their ranks and still escape the fight after 8 minutes of screwing with them is just silly.

The very fact that I can poison field people and drop caltrops on people WHILE remaining stealthed is silly.

asccording to this discussion, around 95% of all players NOT playing thieves, are so bad they really shouldnt be allowed to plat this game. On the other hand 100% of all thieves are so GOOD and PRO mensa will send you an auto invite if you roll thief in gw2

Xsorus.2507:

Roysten.3456:

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy96IsNrMa0

Example of my thief abusing the crap out of stealth.

Looked for the abuse, couldn’t see it. Saw a group of players being seriously outplayed by their own pets, lots of green arrows and lots of npc clutter.
You think that being able to beat people who stand in caltrops, don’t cc, range attack into a reflect, and are upleveled means that stealth is op? The ele. and mesmer at least target you not the npcs showing that you are rendering just fine.
Maybe you are right though and they did deserve to win that fight by just auto attacking because there were more of them.

If I would of been on my Ranger, i would of been dead in the first 3 minutes of that fight.

the very fact that I can stealth and “reset” the fight whenever i want or move behind their ranks and still escape the fight after 8 minutes of screwing with them is just silly.

The very fact that I can poison field people and drop caltrops on people WHILE remaining stealthed is silly.

I do actually agree about poison field and caltrops from stealth, but this is the first time I have read a complaint about it (backstab backstab backstab all I ever hear).
Stealth doesn’t reset the fight though, escaping does and the reset works both ways. I find it a waste of time. Better to get some kills grab the bags and pay the repair bill if they get you.

Wreckdum.8367:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArWxfaeeYu4

Edit: Look how excited at the end he is that he 1v1’d me. lol

I did come close to winning that player vs air battle though by dropping stuns and knockbacks on…. nothing and hoping he was there. Awesome game ANet. Very fun for both parties involved!

Seems fine to me. He was constantly losing the fight. You just have to be more agressive if you actually want to finish him. Also, drop that useless signet for something useful such as throw bolas or frenzy if you want to get a thief, kitten
No offence, but you did NOT perform very well in this video. You are too defensive, even your bullrush is there recharged, yet you don’t use it. Makes me wonder how easily you expect to win.
When you see him at your back, dodge backwards and attack asp. Don’t let him land c&d for re-stealth.

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy96IsNrMa0

Example of my thief abusing the crap out of stealth.

I play a thief as well (D/D rather than P/D though)

And I agree.

Stealth does need to be nerfed in some way, it’s pretty ridiculous and has been for a very long time.

Xsorus.2507:

If I would of been on my Ranger, i would of been dead in the first 3 minutes of that fight.

the very fact that I can stealth and “reset” the fight whenever i want or move behind their ranks and still escape the fight after 8 minutes of screwing with them is just silly.

The very fact that I can poison field people and drop caltrops on people WHILE remaining stealthed is silly.

Thats why you know a ranger is a ranger and a warrior is a warrior etc. They aren’t the same. If you had been on your d/d bunker ele would you have been dead in 3 minutes? Could you have tanked 5 people if you were a bunker guardian? Would you have spread some good epidemic if you hopped on your necro? Would your feedback done some good damage if you had your mesmer up and running?

You also didn’t stop them from taking the camp!!!! WvW is about objectives you would have been 10 time more effective or20 times more effective if you. You know reset the fight and typed in map chat a group was taking danelon. Instead you enjoyed your trolling which is all it was. You didn’t call for help if you did I didn’t see it.

People need to get over themselves and look at the big picture so what if you can’t beat a d/d ele 1v1 in WvW does that even matter in the grandscheme? No same with a thief that trolls you.

What I saw in your video was you delaying a bunch of distracted bulls who saw red and wanted to kill you its just how it is with thieves and D/D eles people want to kill both classes so bad they lose focus. Still you did no good at all cause they still took the camp. With less people than what they started with. Im guess the rest of the group split to go take something else while you played with caltrops and poison your server lost a camp. Bravo!!! Stealth is OP cause your your keyboard is broken and cant type come to danelons I need backup.

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

If I would of been on my Ranger, i would of been dead in the first 3 minutes of that fight.

the very fact that I can stealth and “reset” the fight whenever i want or move behind their ranks and still escape the fight after 8 minutes of screwing with them is just silly.

The very fact that I can poison field people and drop caltrops on people WHILE remaining stealthed is silly.

Thats why you know a ranger is a ranger and a warrior is a warrior etc. They aren’t the same. If you had been on your d/d bunker ele would you have been dead in 3 minutes? Could you have tanked 5 people if you were a bunker guardian? Would you have spread some good epidemic if you hopped on your necro? Would your feedback done some good damage if you had your mesmer up and running?

You also didn’t stop them from taking the camp!!!! WvW is about objectives you would have been 10 time more effective or20 times more effective if you. You know reset the fight and typed in map chat a group was taking danelon. Instead you enjoyed your trolling which is all it was. You didn’t call for help if you did I didn’t see it.

People need to get over themselves and look at the big picture so what if you can’t beat a d/d ele 1v1 in WvW does that even matter in the grandscheme? No same with a thief that trolls you.

What I saw in your video was you delaying a bunch of distracted bulls who saw red and wanted to kill you its just how it is with thieves and D/D eles people want to kill both classes so bad they lose focus. Still you did no good at all cause they still took the camp. With less people than what they started with. Im guess the rest of the group split to go take something else while you played with caltrops and poison your server lost a camp. Bravo!!! Stealth is OP cause your your keyboard is broken and cant type come to danelons I need backup.

A. Look at the score and realize we have close to 50k More points currently then second place. Every night my side runs over the other two servers in this matchup. I frankly don’t like zerging, I esp don’t like over doing it to the point of saying “Hey friends, come from the red side of the map where you’re currently taking everything down to blue to help defend this one camp from a bunch of people who are taking back all the stuff we ALREADY TOOK 1 HOUR AGO” …I might understand if it was a close match up, and that might be a big deal..However it’s not…It’s not remotely close what so ever…So your deflection is pitiful.

B. if I was on a D/D ele, yes I would of probably been dead in 3 minutes..I can kill a D/D ele on my Ranger 1v1, hell I can absolutely gut one on my Thief….Same with Guardian and Mesmer (They both would of died just as quickly as well) The Ele could run away though….But just sitting there harassing people over and over again….not really. Most of the Ele videos you see are them hauling kitten away from the zerg that’s chasing them, and fighting people along the way..most of the videos you see aren’t them fighting in the same spot for 8 minutes.

killimandros.5087:

asccording to this discussion, around 95% of all players NOT playing thieves, are so bad they really shouldnt be allowed to plat this game. On the other hand 100% of all thieves are so GOOD and PRO mensa will send you an auto invite if you roll thief in gw2

it’s 95% of ppl complaining, not 95% of ppl not playing thieves.
There’s a great difference between the player base and a bunch of unskilled QQers.

well, normally the forum base gives a pretty good indication to what the players in general are concerned about. In any of the videos posted of thieves killing tons of people, the response from 95% of the thievces is those players are baddies. Am I right? All players in said movies are bad, bad, bad and unskilled. Dont you see the shallowness in that? Why arent people complaining to the same degree to other classes? If there are so many complaint posts about the same topic, are you gonna dismiss ALL of them as bad players who doesnt know kitten about the game? lol… seriously, Xsorus is one of the better players I know about, I love how he moves his ranger, still hes complaining, and Id put him into the 5% player base. That 5% consists of, according to you, 99% thieves. The rest of the players are just bad, right? They shouldnt be allowed to play hehe. I find myself playing my thief more and more when I roam alone, because I can basically get away from anything, anytime anywhere if I dont get the kill.

Xsorus.2507:

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

If I would of been on my Ranger, i would of been dead in the first 3 minutes of that fight.

the very fact that I can stealth and “reset” the fight whenever i want or move behind their ranks and still escape the fight after 8 minutes of screwing with them is just silly.

The very fact that I can poison field people and drop caltrops on people WHILE remaining stealthed is silly.

Thats why you know a ranger is a ranger and a warrior is a warrior etc. They aren’t the same. If you had been on your d/d bunker ele would you have been dead in 3 minutes? Could you have tanked 5 people if you were a bunker guardian? Would you have spread some good epidemic if you hopped on your necro? Would your feedback done some good damage if you had your mesmer up and running?

You also didn’t stop them from taking the camp!!!! WvW is about objectives you would have been 10 time more effective or20 times more effective if you. You know reset the fight and typed in map chat a group was taking danelon. Instead you enjoyed your trolling which is all it was. You didn’t call for help if you did I didn’t see it.

People need to get over themselves and look at the big picture so what if you can’t beat a d/d ele 1v1 in WvW does that even matter in the grandscheme? No same with a thief that trolls you.

What I saw in your video was you delaying a bunch of distracted bulls who saw red and wanted to kill you its just how it is with thieves and D/D eles people want to kill both classes so bad they lose focus. Still you did no good at all cause they still took the camp. With less people than what they started with. Im guess the rest of the group split to go take something else while you played with caltrops and poison your server lost a camp. Bravo!!! Stealth is OP cause your your keyboard is broken and cant type come to danelons I need backup.

A. Look at the score and realize we have close to 50k More points currently then second place. Every night my side runs over the other two servers in this matchup. I frankly don’t like zerging, I esp don’t like over doing it to the point of saying “Hey friends, come from the red side of the map where you’re currently taking everything down to blue to help defend this one camp from a bunch of people who are taking back all the stuff we ALREADY TOOK 1 HOUR AGO” …I might understand if it was a close match up, and that might be a big deal..However it’s not…It’s not remotely close what so ever…So your deflection is pitiful.

B. if I was on a D/D ele, yes I would of probably been dead in 3 minutes..I can kill a D/D ele on my Ranger 1v1, hell I can absolutely gut one on my Thief….Same with Guardian and Mesmer (They both would of died just as quickly as well) The Ele could run away though….But just sitting there harassing people over and over again….not really. Most of the Ele videos you see are them hauling kitten away from the zerg that’s chasing them, and fighting people along the way..most of the videos you see aren’t them fighting in the same spot for 8 minutes.

Wait what?

A) So there was no point at all you effectively did nothing. I am not deflecting anything at all. You just had to type a simple hey anyone close by danelons come to help defend. You probably only need like 4 people to help you hold that off with hylek support and the npcs. Come on you gotta do better than that.

Your counter is I don’t like zerging so I don’t ask for anyone close by to come help me defend danelons? You can you know press 4.

Its not a deflection if the point of WvW is winning if you are going to win the matchup and it doesn’t matter to you about defending anything and you just like to roam around and kill people then your contribution is minimal and you just like to play wvw to fight people I guess.

Nothing wrong with that hey play your way but don’t think its some significant event if you kill 4 upleveled players for objectives you claim your server doesn’t care about because your already winning.

Thats not deflection thats just what it is WvW goal is winning by objectives thats the mode your in. You aren’t forced to do any of those things at all but if your in the back of the windmill dueling your just as effective as your video and thats just what it is. It doesn’t matter at all.

Also all you did was post a video saying hey look this is me on my thief abusing stealth. Yea thats alot to go on. If I said no your not abusing stealth but bleeds I guess that is deflecting in your eyes. Its not like you gave much substance to your point and video to begin with. lol

killimandros.5087:

well, normally the forum base gives a pretty good indication to what the players in general are concerned about. In any of the videos posted of thieves killing tons of people, the response from 95% of the thievces is those players are baddies. Am I right? All players in said movies are bad, bad, bad and unskilled. Dont you see the shallowness in that? Why arent people complaining to the same degree to other classes? If there are so many complaint posts about the same topic, are you gonna dismiss ALL of them as bad players who doesnt know kitten about the game? lol… seriously, Xsorus is one of the better players I know about, I love how he moves his ranger, still hes complaining, and Id put him into the 5% player base. That 5% consists of, according to you, 99% thieves. The rest of the players are just bad, right? They shouldnt be allowed to play hehe. I find myself playing my thief more and more when I roam alone, because I can basically get away from anything, anytime anywhere if I dont get the kill.

It just is what it is ask yourself is xsorus going to come on a thread that he agrees with and post a video of him dying while trying to troll 5+ people? I highly doubt it. I am sure he has died before.

Nobody said he was a bad player I can tell he knows his stuff in the video what is bad is the players he is killing how they stand in caltrops, etc that was pointed out.

Some videos the people killed aren’t very good players. Thats a whole different discussion but if you look at montage type videos for GW2 most of the time people say the people you killed weren’t very good. If you kill people with green arrows then people will tell you that your opponents weren’t very good.

Just look up wild bill’s videos 1-4 people said he fought underleved so he started pointing out in the rest of his videos that they weren’t low level players. Its a dumb argument cause I bet everyone attacks everything most of the time. I am sure xsorus doesn’t walk by and see a underleveled enemy and not attack him cause he is underleveled. Do you? When your out roaming do you not kill that underleveled thats all by himself. You don’t chose your opponents in WvW you just fight whats there or avoid it if you can but that doesn’t mean they wont engage you anyway.

I could make a video of me dying vs more than 1 person but what would it prove? Nothing that I died to more than 1 person.

Ask yourself this if I posted a video of me vs more than 1 person is that going to make you change your mind and say oh hey stealth is fine look this thief died trying to fight more than 1 person or this thief died trying to troll?

I bet the answer is no thats why posting videos of you trolling as a thief are useless because I am sure you could have posted videos of you attempting the same and dying but those don’t get posted I wonder why o.O.

If you spend some time you can find videos of any class killing ppl.
There are many 1vX recorded by any profession…
eles doing 1v3 1v4 … mesmers doing the same, warriors oneshotting ppl, immortal guardians …. it’s full of video out there.
The problem is that thief is one of the most difficult profession to understand if not played. Is it because of stealth? Is it because of culling ? I don’t know.
What I know is that only if you play a profession (not 5 minutes in pvp) you can understand it and learn how to counter it.
If you die and you don’t know why you can chose the easy way (come here and complain), or the hard one (try to learn your opponent).

They already fixed the stealth problem by getting rid of C&D stealth off of WvW walls. Thief is a stealth class (or have you guys never played an RPG with a thief class…) There are ways to counter a thief. Learn them.

And OP, you would get owned by any moderately good player…

Neves.2905:

They already fixed the stealth problem by getting rid of C&D stealth off of WvW walls. Thief is a stealth class (or have you guys never played an RPG with a thief class…) There are ways to counter a thief. Learn them.

And OP, you would get owned by any moderately good player…

Lol to the first line. They fixed an abuse which never was part of THIS discussion. I guess you play a thief moderately well since you are so ancious about stealth and culling being fixed, this has nothing to do will wall c’n’d. The problem remains invisible thief due to culling and lag when triggering certain skills unique to thief and mesmer. And the “you bad you mad” is sooo 2007. People complain about this ability in 3 fourths of all complain posts on the wvw section. Makes you wanna think maybe, just maybe the warriors, guardians, hunters, elementalists, mesmers, necros, engineers, never complaining about ANY other class abilities just MIGHT be into something. Yes it would ruin the fun for the baddies (bad thieves), but then again, if all other classes are played by baddies, remove the stealth all together and profit.

To Danedur; theres also a fair number of thieves now themself complaining about this specific issue. Not pointing towards anyone, but seriously, why would any player half decent deny culling is an issue that needs to be solved asap unless using/abusing it is the only way to gain? I have a thief on Gandara, youre free to check if you doubt it.

oZii.2864:

Wait what?

A) So there was no point at all you effectively did nothing. I am not deflecting anything at all. You just had to type a simple hey anyone close by danelons come to help defend. You probably only need like 4 people to help you hold that off with hylek support and the npcs. Come on you gotta do better than that.

Your counter is I don’t like zerging so I don’t ask for anyone close by to come help me defend danelons? You can you know press 4.

Its not a deflection if the point of WvW is winning if you are going to win the matchup and it doesn’t matter to you about defending anything and you just like to roam around and kill people then your contribution is minimal and you just like to play wvw to fight people I guess.

Nothing wrong with that hey play your way but don’t think its some significant event if you kill 4 upleveled players for objectives you claim your server doesn’t care about because your already winning.

Thats not deflection thats just what it is WvW goal is winning by objectives thats the mode your in. You aren’t forced to do any of those things at all but if your in the back of the windmill dueling your just as effective as your video and thats just what it is. It doesn’t matter at all.

Also all you did was post a video saying hey look this is me on my thief abusing stealth. Yea thats alot to go on. If I said no your not abusing stealth but bleeds I guess that is deflecting in your eyes. Its not like you gave much substance to your point and video to begin with. lol

Again, there is no point in me calling for help, we are up 50k in the score, and We’re already controlling most of the map…I’m not surfing around the map on my thief to “win” by zerging the under populated side..Maybe you get your kicks for that.. but i don’t.

I’m out there to kill the enemy, That is what i’m currently doing when I play the thief.

if I wanted to zerg surf i’d rolled a Rifle Warrior.

The fact that you think i should call for help to zerg an already out gunned side because you don’t like the fact that i’m calling thieves overpowered with stealth speaks volumes on you as a player.

" I am sure xsorus doesn’t walk by and see a underleveled enemy and not attack him cause he is underleveled. Do you? When your out roaming do you not kill that underleveled thats all by himself. You don’t chose your opponents in WvW you just fight whats there or avoid it if you can but that doesn’t mean they wont engage you anyway."

By the way, if I come across an underleveled player, I don’t attack them if they’re solo.

it presents no challenge.

If there is more then one, or they attack me first, I’ll kill the group, or if they’re solo, I’ll down him and then leave

Xsorus.2507:

oZii.2864:

Wait what?

A) So there was no point at all you effectively did nothing. I am not deflecting anything at all. You just had to type a simple hey anyone close by danelons come to help defend. You probably only need like 4 people to help you hold that off with hylek support and the npcs. Come on you gotta do better than that.

Your counter is I don’t like zerging so I don’t ask for anyone close by to come help me defend danelons? You can you know press 4.

Its not a deflection if the point of WvW is winning if you are going to win the matchup and it doesn’t matter to you about defending anything and you just like to roam around and kill people then your contribution is minimal and you just like to play wvw to fight people I guess.

Nothing wrong with that hey play your way but don’t think its some significant event if you kill 4 upleveled players for objectives you claim your server doesn’t care about because your already winning.

Thats not deflection thats just what it is WvW goal is winning by objectives thats the mode your in. You aren’t forced to do any of those things at all but if your in the back of the windmill dueling your just as effective as your video and thats just what it is. It doesn’t matter at all.

Also all you did was post a video saying hey look this is me on my thief abusing stealth. Yea thats alot to go on. If I said no your not abusing stealth but bleeds I guess that is deflecting in your eyes. Its not like you gave much substance to your point and video to begin with. lol

Again, there is no point in me calling for help, we are up 50k in the score, and We’re already controlling most of the map…I’m not surfing around the map on my thief to “win” by zerging the under populated side..Maybe you get your kicks for that.. but i don’t.

I’m out there to kill the enemy, That is what i’m currently doing when I play the thief.

if I wanted to zerg surf i’d rolled a Rifle Warrior.

The fact that you think i should call for help to zerg an already out gunned side because you don’t like the fact that i’m calling thieves overpowered with stealth speaks volumes on you as a player.

" I am sure xsorus doesn’t walk by and see a underleveled enemy and not attack him cause he is underleveled. Do you? When your out roaming do you not kill that underleveled thats all by himself. You don’t chose your opponents in WvW you just fight whats there or avoid it if you can but that doesn’t mean they wont engage you anyway."

By the way, if I come across an underleveled player, I don’t attack them if they’re solo.

it presents no challenge.

If there is more then one, or they attack me first, I’ll kill the group, or if they’re solo, I’ll down him and then leave

Lol to that distraction. Its like when I wanna have some fun with my 2 year old kid, and points in a random direction yelling"LOOK A PINK WOOLEN DRAGON", making him look away so I can put a gift in front of him and pretend I did magic….its not gonna work. This topic is not about objectives in 3w, its about culling and stealth, and that video showed very well how culling works with stealth.

Current:
1. Thief unstealths
2. Thief’s character model appears ~1 second after the stealth was supposed to end
3. Thief’s nameplate appears 3 seconds after that

Ideal:
1. Thief unstealths
2. Thief and nameplate are visible immediately

Compromise:
1. Thief unstealths
2. Thief’s nameplate displays as soon as stealth breaks
3. Thief’s character model appears

I just want to know a thief is stabbing me and where it is, and unless they’re using that stupid venom that’s basically a “hey a thief is trying to kill you, use a stun break” projector, you might not have any idea why you’re dying with the current system.

Let thieves kill lowbies and dumb glass cannon PvErs en route to zergballs all they want, I don’t care. I just want to know when I’m being stabbed without having to listen to the combat noises and try to identify the telltale “ping-ping-ping” of a dagger in the midst of the audio clusterkitten of a big fight.

@Korgov: You forgot one other con. The human eye can track motion better then it percieves anything else. So a translucent thief will likely be noticeable no matter how much you lower the opacity. At least if you keep it in the greater then 1% range. The problem with that is stealth offers no statistical buff. It plays solely on the fact that it is an illusion. So basically stealth would become a stance and thieves would lose the only defense they have besides dodging. (Some sets have blinds but not all and even less have daze.)

Dual.8953:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCBjuXKbqQM

Ranger.

A PLAYER SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO KILL OTHER TWO!1 NERF RANGERS1!!!11

Speaking seriously, what if stealth didn’t drop target? I mean, when the player break stealth he is already target (if you were targeting him before he entered stealth).

killimandros.5087:

[cut] Not pointing towards anyone, but seriously, why would any player half decent deny culling is an issue that needs to be solved asap unless using/abusing it is the only way to gain?[cut]

Culling IS an issue, stealth mechanic isn’t.

Ppl are crying “nerf stealth” not “remove culling”. I’m up with the “remove culling” shout but not with the “nerf stealth”.
If we are talking about culling you have to point at mesmers firstly.
If we are talking about stealth mechanic. deal with it.

Daendur.2357:

killimandros.5087:

[cut] Not pointing towards anyone, but seriously, why would any player half decent deny culling is an issue that needs to be solved asap unless using/abusing it is the only way to gain?[cut]

Culling IS an issue, stealth mechanic isn’t.

Ppl are crying “nerf stealth” not “remove culling”. I’m up with the “remove culling” shout but not with the “nerf stealth”.
If we are talking about culling you have to point at mesmers firstly.
If we are talking about stealth mechanic. deal with it.

well, from most of the videos I deduct this. Those players being killed so easily, when the thief is seemingly out of stealth, arent bad. Theyre victims to culling. You can almost see when culling is ovewr, 3-4 seconds after the thief is out of stealth they react. If it was one, two, ten, heck id even say 50 players standing still letting the thief do their thing (which I experience myself every time I attack from stealth), I could maybe blame it on bad playu. But when 100%, all, every one of the membners in a huge zerg , in 10 man teams or alone do NOT react, not once, immediately to an unstealthed thief, that says more than anything. I dont deny mesmers culling abuse. Not at all. But, thieves have more stealth abilitiues, and longer ones, creating more rendering issues. Mesmers have 1,5 afaik that are hard. One (the major one) on a loooong cd, and only usabløe for mesmers who wanna stealth large groupsm hence nothing good in a solo roaming build (never saw a roaming mesmer placing stealth line alone, did you?). My personal opinion, and I am ready to take the challenge on my thief, is removal of all stealth in wvw until culling is fixed. Now let the abuse rain.

I’d love to see an organized group from two servers demonstrate both sides of a thief fight. One from the attacker (thief) side, and one from the defenders side, and really see how much difference there is or is not.

If you have a group organized enough to do this, please post a vid

what does stealth duration has to do with culling ?
btw even if i have a thief i fight thieves and i see how they render.
how do you consider a player that while a thief is around starts to ress a defeated (not downed) ally?! a lot of times doing 1vs2 – 1vs3 when someone goes down and i stealth, his mate starts ress him.
other times i just have to pop here and there a couple of times and they spread enough to let me get a kill… then the second.
fighting a thief you have to know what to do but mostly what not to do.

if they remove stealth they have to give us plate and 8k more HP.

Daendur.2357:

what does stealth duration has to do with culling ?

Duration has nothing to do with it but frequency does. Popping in and out puts them back in the queue and allows them to be culled from the servers transmission list. So a thief that stealths frequently, is more likely to be invisible longer which make CnD REALLY powerful.

If possible thieves need to take priority in the transmission queue so they are culled less frequently. Top end power and crit damage also needs to be scaled back. A lot of people wouldn’t be so upset if they didn’t see 20k+ damage hit in 1-3 seconds from a single target. GC thieves that stack power/crit are probably the biggest complaint here.

Daendur.2357:

what does stealth duration has to do with culling ?
btw even if i have a thief i fight thieves and i see how they render.
how do you consider a player that while a thief is around starts to ress a defeated (not downed) ally?! a lot of times doing 1vs2 – 1vs3 when someone goes down and i stealth, his mate starts ress him.
other times i just have to pop here and there a couple of times and they spread enough to let me get a kill… then the second.
fighting a thief you have to know what to do but mostly what not to do.

if they remove stealth they have to give us plate and 8k more HP.

I have the same armor as you on my ranger…

So do engineer’s

you’d get more HP… but nothing else.

By the way, usually if I see people ressing, I drop caltrops on them and poison field ontop of them..

they might res the enemy, but they almost might just die themselves.

Agreed, I would recommend after a kill you cannot stealth again for 15-20 seconds or make the thief take more damage while in stealth when hit.

yes, great idea! thief can be afflicted by lvl 100 agony while in stealth.

Xsorus.2507:

Again, there is no point in me calling for help, we are up 50k in the score, and We’re already controlling most of the map…I’m not surfing around the map on my thief to “win” by zerging the under populated side..Maybe you get your kicks for that.. but i don’t.

I’m out there to kill the enemy, That is what i’m currently doing when I play the thief.

if I wanted to zerg surf i’d rolled a Rifle Warrior.

The fact that you think i should call for help to zerg an already out gunned side because you don’t like the fact that i’m calling thieves overpowered with stealth speaks volumes on you as a player.

" I am sure xsorus doesn’t walk by and see a underleveled enemy and not attack him cause he is underleveled. Do you? When your out roaming do you not kill that underleveled thats all by himself. You don’t chose your opponents in WvW you just fight whats there or avoid it if you can but that doesn’t mean they wont engage you anyway."

By the way, if I come across an underleveled player, I don’t attack them if they’re solo.

it presents no challenge.

If there is more then one, or they attack me first, I’ll kill the group, or if they’re solo, I’ll down him and then leave

You are missing the point I don’t know how to frame it any better for you. I wish you wouldn’t cherry pick to counter argue but anyway.

The point is this WvW is about PPT and Score.

You can do whatever you feel like doing in WvW. You can afk in the jumping puzzle. You can man cannons all day. You can go to the vistas and not fight a single person you can play however you want. I am not denouncing that I do it all the time.

However you play doesn’t change the fact that WvW is about PPT and Score and Objectives. Going around killing people just to kill them is fun it doesn’t change the fact that WvW is about PPT and SCORE. Killing people just to kill people has a slight effect on PPT and SCORE but it is minimal That is the point that I am making.

See if you can understand this one. A keep is about to be attacked by 10 people and there are 2 people on cannons. Those 2 people hold off the 10 people from taking the keep they did more for towards what the goal of wvw is than you and a thief buddy did by fighting 5 random people around the map.

Just because you can troll 8 people doesnt change the fact that WvW is about score. I don’t understand whats hard to grasp about what I am saying. Therefore trolling the people you did in the video while its fun doesn’t affect the outcome of the game mode your playing therefore it is in essence insignificant, as in it doesn’t matter, as in it’s just for bragging rights or whatever you want to get out of it. How is something that doesnt make your server win or lose overpowered? WvW isn’t arena

Also PPT is always relevant regardless if you are winning by 50 or 300 if you know how the glicko2 system works.

The group you fought wanted the camp even though they were losing, you wanted to kill people just to kill people. So it was win win for everyone. They still got the camp and you killed a few people.

Stealth is not breaking WvW, thieves aren’t breaking WvW. If your idea of WvW is that its a big free for all multiplayer Call of Duty style deathmatch then more power to you and in that alternate reality then you probably have very valid arguments that thieves are OP and stealth is broken.

Guild Wars 2 WvW is not a free for all deathmatch, with kill cams for scoring the highest kills so everyone can see how leet you are. You can play it that way if you want but that doesn’t make it a deathmatch!

A thief without stealth is the equivalent to a necromancer without conditions. It’s just not going work…

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

Again, there is no point in me calling for help, we are up 50k in the score, and We’re already controlling most of the map…I’m not surfing around the map on my thief to “win” by zerging the under populated side..Maybe you get your kicks for that.. but i don’t.

I’m out there to kill the enemy, That is what i’m currently doing when I play the thief.

if I wanted to zerg surf i’d rolled a Rifle Warrior.

The fact that you think i should call for help to zerg an already out gunned side because you don’t like the fact that i’m calling thieves overpowered with stealth speaks volumes on you as a player.

" I am sure xsorus doesn’t walk by and see a underleveled enemy and not attack him cause he is underleveled. Do you? When your out roaming do you not kill that underleveled thats all by himself. You don’t chose your opponents in WvW you just fight whats there or avoid it if you can but that doesn’t mean they wont engage you anyway."

By the way, if I come across an underleveled player, I don’t attack them if they’re solo.

it presents no challenge.

If there is more then one, or they attack me first, I’ll kill the group, or if they’re solo, I’ll down him and then leave

You are missing the point I don’t know how to frame it any better for you. I wish you wouldn’t cherry pick to counter argue but anyway.

The point is this WvW is about PPT and Score.

You can do whatever you feel like doing in WvW. You can afk in the jumping puzzle. You can man cannons all day. You can go to the vistas and not fight a single person you can play however you want. I am not denouncing that I do it all the time.

However you play doesn’t change the fact that WvW is about PPT and Score and Objectives. Going around killing people just to kill them is fun it doesn’t change the fact that WvW is about PPT and SCORE. Killing people just to kill people has a slight effect on PPT and SCORE but it is minimal That is the point that I am making.

See if you can understand this one. A keep is about to be attacked by 10 people and there are 2 people on cannons. Those 2 people hold off the 10 people from taking the keep they did more for towards what the goal of wvw is than you and a thief buddy did by fighting 5 random people around the map.

Just because you can troll 8 people doesnt change the fact that WvW is about score. I don’t understand whats hard to grasp about what I am saying. Therefore trolling the people you did in the video while its fun doesn’t affect the outcome of the game mode your playing therefore it is in essence insignificant, as in it doesn’t matter, as in it’s just for bragging rights or whatever you want to get out of it. How is something that doesnt make your server win or lose overpowered? WvW isn’t arena

Also PPT is always relevant regardless if you are winning by 50 or 300 if you know how the glicko2 system works.

The group you fought wanted the camp even though they were losing, you wanted to kill people just to kill people. So it was win win for everyone. They still got the camp and you killed a few people.

Stealth is not breaking WvW, thieves aren’t breaking WvW. If your idea of WvW is that its a big free for all multiplayer Call of Duty style deathmatch then more power to you and in that alternate reality then you probably have very valid arguments that thieves are OP and stealth is broken.

Guild Wars 2 WvW is not a free for all deathmatch, with kill cams for scoring the highest kills so everyone can see how leet you are. You can play it that way if you want but that doesn’t make it a deathmatch!

By your logic, if I could one shot every single person I come across, as long as it didn’t have a direct effect on the “score” in world vs world…It would be perfectly reasonable and no balance changes are needed grin

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

Balfour.9046:

Agreed, I would recommend after a kill you cannot stealth again for 15-20 seconds or make the thief take more damage while in stealth when hit.

I think we’ve hit a possible solution. That way thieves can still stealth, but they put themselves at risk in battle.

I also play a thief as a main (1200 hours and 14k kills in WvW mostly solo) I actually agree with the OP about needing changes to stealth. I would prefer to see the thief go more along the lines of the assassin from GW1.

Instead of making the player totally invisible to the enemy, just make them transparent and add in a chance to evade incoming attacks. Note this should be a CHANCE not 100% but some percentage that could be tweaked in testing.

This would make it so that stealth still performs it’s basic defensive purpose but removes the issue of fighting against an opponent you can only see 40% of the time.

Adaneshade.2409:

I also play a thief as a main (1200 hours and 14k kills in WvW mostly solo) I actually agree with the OP about needing changes to stealth. I would prefer to see the thief go more along the lines of the assassin from GW1.

Instead of making the player totally invisible to the enemy, just make them transparent and add in a chance to evade incoming attacks. Note this should be a CHANCE not 100% but some percentage that could be tweaked in testing.

This would make it so that stealth still performs it’s basic defensive purpose but removes the issue of fighting against an opponent you can only see 40% of the time.

That’s actually a great suggestion.

Make stealth like a “phase” mechanic..

Xsorus.2507:

Adaneshade.2409:

I also play a thief as a main (1200 hours and 14k kills in WvW mostly solo) I actually agree with the OP about needing changes to stealth. I would prefer to see the thief go more along the lines of the assassin from GW1.

Instead of making the player totally invisible to the enemy, just make them transparent and add in a chance to evade incoming attacks. Note this should be a CHANCE not 100% but some percentage that could be tweaked in testing.

This would make it so that stealth still performs it’s basic defensive purpose but removes the issue of fighting against an opponent you can only see 40% of the time.

That’s actually a great suggestion.

Make stealth like a “phase” mechanic..

Hmmm … it’d still act as a buffer between Thief’s crap Health and the enemy, but
there’d be less issue of “culling.” Although, what would such a change do, RE: Shadow Arts Traitline? Could work, honestly.
(Truth told, I’m actually thinking of going evasion-Thief, especially with the patch on Withdraw.)

Spyder.9713:

You ppl are kitten for this… u do releize that stealth exsist in almost all morpgs?? U all think its bad on here then dont every play daoc or wow, prob just rage quit lol… the thiefs job in pvp, wvw, whatever is the same as any other game… they are there to thin the herd, just like a lion, do u think he goes after the biggest strongest wildabeast in the herd no he goes after the weak sickly one… that is the thief, shame on u ppl!

Stealth is also completely unbalanced in every other MMO. Stealth is something that is unbalancable. It gives a HUGE advantage in not only deciding when to fight but also survivability. Go ahead and name one MMO where stealth was balanced, You’ll either find the stealth classes being OP or they are UP because they got their damage nerfed into the ground due to stealth. Putting in stealth was a terrible design decision, the thief should have been based around evasion/mobility.

Adaneshade.2409:

I also play a thief as a main (1200 hours and 14k kills in WvW mostly solo) I actually agree with the OP about needing changes to stealth. I would prefer to see the thief go more along the lines of the assassin from GW1.

Instead of making the player totally invisible to the enemy, just make them transparent and add in a chance to evade incoming attacks. Note this should be a CHANCE not 100% but some percentage that could be tweaked in testing.

This would make it so that stealth still performs it’s basic defensive purpose but removes the issue of fighting against an opponent you can only see 40% of the time.

How would one backstab or Tactical Strike an enemy at 130 range if you can clearly see it comming?

How would Shadow Refuge work? Do I just stand in the hut and let people hit me?

Adaneshade.2409:

I also play a thief as a main (1200 hours and 14k kills in WvW mostly solo) I actually agree with the OP about needing changes to stealth. I would prefer to see the thief go more along the lines of the assassin from GW1.

Instead of making the player totally invisible to the enemy, just make them transparent and add in a chance to evade incoming attacks. Note this should be a CHANCE not 100% but some percentage that could be tweaked in testing.

This would make it so that stealth still performs it’s basic defensive purpose but removes the issue of fighting against an opponent you can only see 40% of the time.

I’m all for making the thief more evade based, however that system would probably take them a year to implement at their current rate of class balancing. What they need to do is just change the revealed debuff. Make reveal last 15s or so but instead of making them unable to stealth it reduces stealth time by 1-2s and it stacks. That way after 3-4 stealths they are out for 15s or so. It would definitely cut down on thieves doing the constant stealth spam. Of course backstab damage would still need addressed then too as a 5→1 5→1 5→1 combo in about 5s would drop anyone :P.

I would trade all my stealth utility for 1 perma stealth until you attack like in other MMOs!! I could finally have a reason to use other utility skills other than the usual blinding powder and refuge!!

Distaste.4801:

Stealth is also completely unbalanced in every other MMO. Stealth is something that is unbalancable. It gives a HUGE advantage in not only deciding when to fight but also survivability. Go ahead and name one MMO where stealth was balanced, You’ll either find the stealth classes being OP or they are UP because they got their damage nerfed into the ground due to stealth. Putting in stealth was a terrible design decision, the thief should have been based around evasion/mobility.

Actually in sPvP stealth is well balanced and proof that stealth in and of itself isn’t broken. What makes it “broken” in WvW is culling and no soft caps on power/crit damage.