Guild Wars 2

I’m annoyed.

Good now that we got that out of the way, I’m personally only really running into Thieves, Mesmers, Engineers and Rangers while I roam. I do run into other classes, but so far in my experience I get into the most fights with these 4 classes. And I could possibly actually kill them if they didn’t have so much stealth. It’s aggrivating when you have your opponent almost downed, and BAM they have stealth and run away.

For those asking (or not) I play a Necro, we’re slow by nature. I also understand that each class has to have a foil, a hard counter. But I have the biggest issue with the large amount of stealth each of these classes gets. They get to heal up, and I’m stuck with half hp or no shroud left.

I’m also specifically talking about 1v1 fights, big groups it’s fine. I’m also probably in a minority that feels this way.

AoEs like marks and wells hit stealthed targets, and conditions still tick while stealthed.

I’m not running condi necro though, so….. and I also would need to know where they are when they are in stealth. But since they are invisible, I’d be wasting cooldowns hitting nothing

Those 4 classes all have that obvious thing in common, and its not for no good reason.

If you want to kill the ones playing cheap, return the favor and lay a stealth trap around a corner.

I made a vid showing these people and what to do, in particular stealth trap:

https://youtu.be/u9EV_OPzrb4

An Engineer has to build for stealth, so I suppose it’s fair that you’d have to build for condi to counter it, even if it’s annoying.

Stealth isn’t your problem. Any class with disengage (superior mobility options) is your problem. And stealth/cloak is just one of those. An Ele/Warrior could easily still run away from you.

Your other problem is you refuse to play a build that is on equal footing with those four others.

Should there be more utilities that offer stealth breaking/reveal ? Of course there should be. When ANet added Trapper Runes, a utility should have been given to every class.

/beat dead horse

So basicly what you are saying is that your non-roaming build cannot kill the roamers you meet that build to kill other players?

Yeah because that’s exactly what you are saying.

I play as a hybrid pistol/pistol scrapper (with stealth gyro of course) and even though I can kill things with ease – zerkers will probably loose ~80% of their HP in a single attack if I manage to blowtorch their face – there are plenty of things that kill me. Necros in particular have a wide range of nasty skills and can easily hardcounter any build with condi damage. The really good ones make me kill myself.

So there is no need to worry really. Most players on necros just zerg due to GWEN. A majority of them are bad at roaming.

Don’t get me wrong, I like my build as it is, but I’m just tired of being at a disadvantage because I can’t just disengage and fully heal up.

I realize that Necros have an unfair advantage with shroud, and skills that cool down while in shroud. And I’m sure people have complained about that as well. But so far I have damaged a theif, they stealth, they hit me back hard, I pop shroud, they stealth, heal up, destroy my shroud, and now I’m screwed. That is basically how my fights go in general with all stealth fights, just using thief as a filler.

Karnasis.6892:

I realize that Necros have an unfair advantage with shroud, and skills that cool down while in shroud. And I’m sure people have complained about that as well. But so far I have damaged a theif, they stealth, they hit me back hard, I pop shroud, they stealth, heal up, destroy my shroud, and now I’m screwed. That is basically how my fights go in general with all stealth fights, just using thief as a filler.

Yes. That’s what they do. They are built to kill your type of target.

Do you think any other player on a power build have it easier facing such enemies? No. Necros in fact have the biggest advantage in that they can tank in their marks, that’s often why thieves are extra quick around them.

And that’s why most run condi heavy ranged builds when roaming. If quick zerker builds start running from you, they are probably already dead. They will bleed, they will burn and they will die confused.

Ya necro pretty nasty with the no target required, pile down the aoe. The only way I fight them is from range and stealth on my druid. If they get into melee, I’m in my staff flying backout to 1200 range. No one is just going to stand in necro aoe spam lols.

Justine.6351:

Ya necro pretty nasty with the no target required, pile down the aoe. The only way I fight them is from range and stealth on my druid. If they get into melee, I’m in my staff flying backout to 1200 range. No one is just going to stand in necro aoe spam lols.

I get that, but stealth is too powerful of an effect that can be just spammed but certain classes. I have fought to many people that can just spam it (rangers and theives mostly) that just when you think you have them they stealth, which drops your targeting and you waste a skill…. again I understand that every class has unfair things like that, but why do 4 out of the 9 classes have stealth, even if you have to build for it?

Karnasis.6892:

Justine.6351:

Ya necro pretty nasty with the no target required, pile down the aoe. The only way I fight them is from range and stealth on my druid. If they get into melee, I’m in my staff flying backout to 1200 range. No one is just going to stand in necro aoe spam lols.

I get that, but stealth is too powerful of an effect that can be just spammed but certain classes. I have fought to many people that can just spam it (rangers and theives mostly) that just when you think you have them they stealth, which drops your targeting and you waste a skill…. again I understand that every class has unfair things like that, but why do 4 out of the 9 classes have stealth, even if you have to build for it?

It’s actually 5 classes if you include dragon hunters.
No one can really give you an answer other than to agree with you.
So all that can be said at this point is,

When in Rome…
Or is it,
When in Roam..
;-)

You’re definitely not the minority who feels this way about stealth. There have been threads about it since the beginning of time.

Everyone knows that stealth in this game is terrible. Especially in WvW roaming. I’ll bet stealth has driven more people away from WvW than the DBL.

If you can’t beat them, join them.

Everyone knows that the best roaming tactic is to roll the stealth/mobile classes and source the OP builds.

/sarcasm.

One on one is annoying for sure, but I don’t see that many roamers running around alone these days. Usually they are in pairs or trios and absolutely certain to make sure the lone player is dead.

Truthfully, if roaming for one on one fights is your thing you have to suffer the annoyances or re-roll the very thing you detest. Happiness is just a character creation screen away I guess….oh and stealth traps.

Good luck and try to have fun.

We’ve had 4 years of the same threads complaining about balance for something that’ll never be as balanced as they like, unlike sPvP. Even now scrappers have stealth and sustain, so roaming is just mostly ganking and dueling ‘build wars’ nowadays.

Players will happily stomp scrubs who can’t even dodge, otherwise they qq on forums for nerfs to mechanics, because they can’t learn to counter or put up with it still. Thieves will always have those mechanics, because otherwise they’re squishy with little passive defences.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-cheating-is-too-common-in-WvW

I typically run alone sometimes. Not all the time, but sometimes. If I want to solo take a camp or even sometimes knock down a tower wall alone (it does still happen). But there are times I’ll be solo taking a camp, and thief jumps in, kills me after a minute or so of fighting and caps the camp I did all the work for, and what usually gets me killed, the fact they can stealth the fully heal.

Honestly I’d be okay with stealth if you couldn’t heal up during. That you could only heal unstealthed, as it would mean you’d have to break off and get lots of distance and then re-enegage. Either that or make it have longer cooldowns.

Karnasis.6892:

I typically run alone sometimes. Not all the time, but sometimes. If I want to solo take a camp or even sometimes knock down a tower wall alone (it does still happen). But there are times I’ll be solo taking a camp, and thief jumps in, kills me after a minute or so of fighting and caps the camp I did all the work for, and what usually gets me killed, the fact they can stealth the fully heal.

Honestly I’d be okay with stealth if you couldn’t heal up during. That you could only heal unstealthed, as it would mean you’d have to break off and get lots of distance and then re-enegage. Either that or make it have longer cooldowns.

Yeah they should give stealth the death shroud treatment ;-)

tbh just drop a stralth trap on your feet and wait. everytime someone does that to me i feel so useless with 30 sec of ‘revealed’

legenduu.4372:

tbh just drop a stralth trap on your feet and wait. everytime someone does that to me i feel so useless with 30 sec of ‘revealed’

Pro-tip: when you see someone standing on Stealth Disruptor just walk away. The how-stupid-is-this factor sinks in after 10 mins for most players.

Drop a stealth trap… right… it takes 5 seconds to drop one. So as he is stealthing he’s watching you lay the “trap”. You can stand there and try to lure the guy to it.. or he just stays away and ranges you and tries to lure you away. Stealth traps are great I guess if the person doesn’t see you put it down and runs over it. Greater if you have a few people that put some down. But just putting one down and expecting the guy to run close enough to it to be unstealthed? If he’s good that’s not likely… otherwise you have a chance.

Karnasis.6892:

I’m annoyed.

Good now that we got that out of the way, I’m personally only really running into Thieves, Mesmers, Engineers and Rangers while I roam. I do run into other classes, but so far in my experience I get into the most fights with these 4 classes. And I could possibly actually kill them if they didn’t have so much stealth. It’s aggrivating when you have your opponent almost downed, and BAM they have stealth and run away.

For those asking (or not) I play a Necro, we’re slow by nature. I also understand that each class has to have a foil, a hard counter. But I have the biggest issue with the large amount of stealth each of these classes gets. They get to heal up, and I’m stuck with half hp or no shroud left.

I’m also specifically talking about 1v1 fights, big groups it’s fine. I’m also probably in a minority that feels this way.

Hello Karnasis

I don’t play Necro/Reaper, but there’s a guy in the Necro forums that recently made a post that showcases his “8” Reapers. He’s Very POWER oriented (but I don’t think exclusively).

He has several videos on the below post where he’s doing a good amount of 1v1 and often time versus stealth classes – Dare Devils and Mez/Chronos. Some he wins and some he loses. Check out his style and approach as it might help you with dealing with the stealth classes. I enjoyed it and learned some stuff even though Necro/Reaper isn’t my thing.

Oh and he gives info on his builds and a bit of creative story to his post too!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/The-Reapers-Grimoire-Reapers-in-WvW/first#post6225018

People, like refered above, qq for reason. I see how thieves take down in split second while players cannot even dodge (daze?). I see how 5+ man blob chases 1 thief for minutes.

At least, I want longer fights because I want learn to play – nothing to learn if I just have to use wp and run back. I don’t want waste playtime for chasing thieves or mesmers.

The game is rated 12+. Is WvW good place for a child to play? Specially if adults qq that much. Or if our skilled adult players go down in two seconds. For children (and for average adult players), should WvW have “easy” play mode – e.g., more built-in toughness/vitality, reduced interrupt cooldowns, etc – for example.

Pelto.9364:

People, like refered above, qq for reason. I see how thieves take down in split second while players cannot even dodge (daze?). I see how 5+ man blob chases 1 thief for minutes.

At least, I want longer fights because I want learn to play – nothing to learn if I just have to use wp and run back. I don’t want waste playtime for chasing thieves or mesmers.

The game is rated 12+. Is WvW good place for a child to play? Specially if adults qq that much. Or if our skilled adult players go down in two seconds. For children (and for average adult players), should WvW have “easy” play mode – e.g., more built-in toughness/vitality, reduced interrupt cooldowns, etc – for example.

Yeah! kitten thieves intruding on our “safe spaces”….
Won’t somebody think of the children!

Stealth is broken in this game, and always will be, end of story.

P.S you fighting against Maguuma lol? they run a ton of those classes plus tempest.

I feel ya OP. The druids are the most annoying ones and cookie cutter stealth build.

I don’t mind thieves too much because they are running a bit light on the gear and can be smoked quickly but the evades are pretty nuts now.

Mesmers are just dumb, condi food + wrench with stealth makes me go “great……”.

I run necro as well, non reaper, tainted shackles and life transfer is really nice to deal with stealth jerks.

The sorry state of roaming is: gank if you can, and run away/stealth if you start to lose.

I don’t roam much (I’m a Rev) but yesterday I was doing dailies solo and a necro ambushed me. We fought for a while and I barely won. The refreshing thing about the fight was that there was no +1 and neither one of us ran away, and neither of us was running a cheese condi build. All too rare these days. It seems like Rev, Necro,and DH are the only classes that really fight when roaming because they can’t stealth or run well.

My favorite are the warrior gank and flee types. Look its brave sir robin!

Roaming isn’t about who’s the most skilled, it’s about who’s the smartest.

As a Necromancer, you lack disengage, blocks and invulnerability. This means that when you’re outnumbered, you’re going to need to be creative about how you defend yourself. Either you can straight up outplay your opponents, or you can use things like the terrain to your advantage. Find a cliff you can fear people off of for example.

Professions with high access to stealth are favored for roaming because roaming is a very vicious hobby. You’re going to constantly get outnumbered and hard countered so to do it properly, you should be roaming on something with high mobility, stealth and access to a lot of condition cleanse. Otherwise, you’re going to have a bad time.

That said, you can roam on what ever you’re comfortable with, just be aware that some professions are better than others. Necromancer is a powerful fighter but it doesn’t have a lot of the important tools that good roaming profession should have. This means that you need to be using your eyes and ears a lot more actively than a lot of other professions. You need to be constantly aware of your surroundings and your personal limits. How far can you push and how much can you handle? Use your “look behind” key regularly, even during fights, to prevent being snuck up on, whether it be from other roamers or a zerg. Once it happens, you’re probably not going to get away from it.

Don’t ever expect anyone to fight fair. You might come across people who want to duel from time to time, but if they’re not starting with a /bow, expect them to run away, call in friends, alt +f4, or any other dirty, under handed strategy they can use to win. And they shouldn’t be blamed for it either. There are no rules other than don’t hack, so why should people limit themselves on what they can do to come out victorious?

Stealth is a frustrating mechanic, many of us agree. But there are ways, albeit unorthadox, to counter it. Stealth traps are one of those ways and especially against condition Thieves/Mesmers, they will help you immensely. Just be wise about how you place them. What I do personally is look for a relatively tight spot to drop it, such as against a wall or on a bridge, where it will be harder to avoid. I then face my back to where they last were and pretend like I’m AFK or just panicking. 75% of the time, and that’s not a generous estimate, they will trip it when they try to backstab me then immediately try to run for the hills when they see they’ve been tricked.

Practice makes perfect. Just remember above all else to expect the unexpected and to play like your life is on the line. Because it is. Mercy isn’t a common thing among our folk and although I tend to be a passive roamer myself (in that I only attack who attacks/attempts to attack me first), I’m not at all against kiting in and out of towers, hugging supply camps or being just a general pain in the behind. Is it fair? No. Do I care? Nope. Don’t engage if you think you won’t win. That’s another mistake a lot of people make. Trying to fight what they know isn’t a smart idea to fight. Which again brings me back to “know your limits.”

Anyway, good luck out there.

Mushin.3928:

The sorry state of roaming is: gank if you can, and run away/stealth if you start to lose.

I don’t roam much (I’m a Rev) but yesterday I was doing dailies solo and a necro ambushed me. We fought for a while and I barely won. The refreshing thing about the fight was that there was no +1 and neither one of us ran away, and neither of us was running a cheese condi build. All too rare these days. It seems like Rev, Necro,and DH are the only classes that really fight when roaming because they can’t stealth or run well.

My favorite are the warrior gank and flee types. Look its brave sir robin!

This right here is why roaming is dead. It’s mainly the players fault for running builds that they base on “escaping” like its an art or some intelligent strategy. Why roam if you are just going to run and never deal with a challenge? Moment they start losing they run like it’s real life lol

Seems to me the roamers today are just fleeing and have no interest in fighting, hence nobody roams like they use to. Players like this killed the aspect of the game, it’s their own fault for the state of the game. Not anets.

Balthazzarr.1349:

Drop a stealth trap… right… it takes 5 seconds to drop one. So as he is stealthing he’s watching you lay the “trap”. You can stand there and try to lure the guy to it.. or he just stays away and ranges you and tries to lure you away. Stealth traps are great I guess if the person doesn’t see you put it down and runs over it. Greater if you have a few people that put some down. But just putting one down and expecting the guy to run close enough to it to be unstealthed? If he’s good that’s not likely… otherwise you have a chance.

I don’t know what people are doing when I place these things mid-fight but in my experience, they trip them about 75% of the time.

It’s like they think if they dodge just right they’ll be immune to it or something, I don’t know what they think. All I know is that as long as I have enough health to tank a few hits I’ll start setting one down and most of the time they’ll trip it as long as I stay close to it.

The odd time they’re smart enough to avoid it, they just run away completely. So either they forfeit and run or they trip it and die. Win/win.

RodOfDeath.5247:

This right here is why roaming is dead. It’s mainly the players fault for running builds that they base on “escaping” like its an art or some intelligent strategy. Why roam if you are just going to run and never deal with a challenge? Moment they start losing they run like it’s real life lol

Seems to me the roamers today are just fleeing and have no interest in fighting, hence nobody roams like they use to. Players like this killed the aspect of the game, it’s their own fault for the state of the game. Not anets.

What do you mean “like they used to”? That sounds like roaming since launch.

About the thread in general, as a thief I also have to play a build I don’t entirely like to survive stealth openers, but I only have to hit a threshold in the build to where I can survive or avoid the opener to hit back and so it’s otherwise a fun build if not totally kitten inducing. This is coming from a thief who rarely uses stealth and doesn’t have a lot going for him passively.

kash.9213:

RodOfDeath.5247:

This right here is why roaming is dead. It’s mainly the players fault for running builds that they base on “escaping” like its an art or some intelligent strategy. Why roam if you are just going to run and never deal with a challenge? Moment they start losing they run like it’s real life lol

Seems to me the roamers today are just fleeing and have no interest in fighting, hence nobody roams like they use to. Players like this killed the aspect of the game, it’s their own fault for the state of the game. Not anets.

What do you mean “like they used to”? That sounds like roaming since launch.

About the thread in general, as a thief I also have to play a build I don’t entirely like to survive stealth openers, but I only have to hit a threshold in the build to where I can survive or avoid the opener to hit back and so it’s otherwise a fun build if not totally kitten inducing. This is coming from a thief who rarely uses stealth and doesn’t have a lot going for him passively.

Diversity, activity, and technical skill. It’s the same builds, classes, and strategy. I guess I’ve transferred here and there over the years in every tier, seen a lot of cool builds and classes. That just doesn’t happen presently like it use to. Roaming use to be an unknown, now it’s “yep, another x thief or mesmer build”. Just my experience, you don’t have to like it or agree.

Agree with RodOfDeath. One reason I don’t get into roaming more is that it just looks so boring and lame. Roll the thief or condi mesmer and go gank people running to the zerg or taking a sentry. Just not my thing, but I guess it works for some people.

Pelto.9364:

People, like refered above, qq for reason. I see how thieves take down in split second while players cannot even dodge (daze?). I see how 5+ man blob chases 1 thief for minutes.

At least, I want longer fights because I want learn to play – nothing to learn if I just have to use wp and run back. I don’t want waste playtime for chasing thieves or mesmers.

The game is rated 12+. Is WvW good place for a child to play? Specially if adults qq that much. Or if our skilled adult players go down in two seconds. For children (and for average adult players), should WvW have “easy” play mode – e.g., more built-in toughness/vitality, reduced interrupt cooldowns, etc – for example.

lol… all I can say is that most children are better at these games than us so called adults are…

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Balthazzarr.1349:

Drop a stealth trap… right… it takes 5 seconds to drop one. So as he is stealthing he’s watching you lay the “trap”. You can stand there and try to lure the guy to it.. or he just stays away and ranges you and tries to lure you away. Stealth traps are great I guess if the person doesn’t see you put it down and runs over it. Greater if you have a few people that put some down. But just putting one down and expecting the guy to run close enough to it to be unstealthed? If he’s good that’s not likely… otherwise you have a chance.

I don’t know what people are doing when I place these things mid-fight but in my experience, they trip them about 75% of the time.

It’s like they think if they dodge just right they’ll be immune to it or something, I don’t know what they think. All I know is that as long as I have enough health to tank a few hits I’ll start setting one down and most of the time they’ll trip it as long as I stay close to it.

The odd time they’re smart enough to avoid it, they just run away completely. So either they forfeit and run or they trip it and die. Win/win.

ahh.. that’s funny… I mean really you would think that they would know that if they didn’t down you in a couple seconds they would be revealed.. maybe I’ll carry a few traps with me on my next roaming run just in case…

Mushin.3928:

Agree with RodOfDeath. One reason I don’t get into roaming more is that it just looks so boring and lame. Roll the thief or condi mesmer and go gank people running to the zerg or taking a sentry. Just not my thing, but I guess it works for some people.

It gets interesting when you find someone running a class not in the roaming meta and get a good fight with no interruptions. But those are few and far between unless you manage to run into a random scrim area set up, but then it’s still mostly thieves.

The most OP I have ever seen from stealth was recently when a trapper condi thief had what basically amounts to permanent stealth. He downed me twice before finally killing me with just condi traps, and he never once came out of stealth before or after the engagement (a period of about 3-4 minutes), even to do the killing blow warstomp. I was basically fighting a ghost. This really should not be possible… my reaper has over 2.6k armor and over 21k hp.

perseco.8321:

The most OP I have ever seen from stealth was recently when a trapper condi thief had what basically amounts to permanent stealth. He downed me twice before finally killing me with just condi traps, and he never once came out of stealth before or after the engagement (a period of about 3-4 minutes), even to do the killing blow warstomp. I was basically fighting a ghost. This really should not be possible… my reaper has over 2.6k armor and over 21k hp.

Condi ghost thief is literally powerless if you cleanse and walk away. Not that the permastealth netted by doing 4 hs through bp and laying down traps isn’t broken.

The issue with stealth is mobility in stealth. Mesmer can stealth, run past you, and teleport out of combat. Same with thief. Ranger stealth is far more limited, but you can’t hit them while they cover 2400 distance with gs and staff 3. Engi stealth is the weakest because they have a gyro following them, so they can’t reposition as much.
If stealth were unable to confuse the opponent, it would be borderline useless. However, it is annoying that these classes can dissapear for 3 seconds and then reappear on the horizon and out of combat.

Engineer also has access to slightly more reliable stealth through the Elixir S toolbelt skill, but yeah, the stealth gyro is pretty crap. First time I used it to sneak past enemies, trying it out in my “get from point A to point B as fast as possible” build, I followed Elixir S habits and tried to Rocket Boots for maximum distance traveled while in stealth. You can imagine how that went…

• Plays the least mobile class
• Decides to use it in a role that prioritizes mobility
• Complains that classes better suited for the role are better at it

World PvP is not about killing people. It is about objectives. Killing people is a method through which you claim objectives. If you are causing other players to run away, you are winning. If you want to play a game mode where killing is people is the primary focus, that is what Conquest is for. It is designed to funnel players in to very small spaces and force them to stay there to gain progress and rewards.

WvW is not designed for what you seem to think it is.

“Roaming” is just a fancier way of saying “I want to gank people and don’t care about contributing to my team.”

Scouts contribute to teams. They scout. It often means actively avoiding fights. Roamers just waste ques in an effort of find lopsided fights to stroke their egos, and complain when things don’t go their way.

WvW (and GW2 in general for that matter) is not designed around 1v1 fights. Attempting to make it so, then complaining the experience is lackluster is willful denial of the game you’re playing.

If you’re going to do something the game wasn’t designed to do in the first place, don’t complain that the thing you’re doing is poorly balanced.

More complaining about who has an advantage and who hasn’t .You forget that Necros/reapers essentially have 2 health bars and massive condi.I’ve run into some that are near impossible to kill because of that, Ele/tempests have 4 weapon swaps and can bunker so much it is impossible to kill them.War/Berz can unleash absurd amounts of damage and interrupts .Guards/DH again massive damage and sustained survival.Before you start whining that something should be nerfed, try looking at your build and adjust accordingly to the environment your in. A little suggestion is Don’t run WvW Zerg meta if you plan to roam you will get stomped.

Yeah guys, you roamers should be fighting it out in camps and sentries. If the thief stealths and runs away you are charlie sheen “winning”, don’t mind it if he regens to full and comes back to kill you.

Also if you randomly bump into someone in open field in the middle of nowhere, ignore them cause they’re not an objective, and you will not be playing wvw for what it was designed for (imma designer I absolutely know what it was designed for).

Xenesis.6389:

Yeah guys, you roamers should be fighting it out in camps and sentries. If the thief stealths and runs away you are charlie sheen “winning”, don’t mind it if he regens to full and comes back to kill you.

Also if you randomly bump into someone in open field in the middle of nowhere, ignore them cause they’re not an objective, and you will not be playing wvw for what it was designed for (imma designer I absolutely know what it was designed for).

You’re sarcastically complaining about something but it’s hard to tell what that is. Whatever it is you’re grumbling about, what are you doing while they’re off regenerating, are you saving your cooldowns for some other occasion?

kash.9213:

You’re sarcastically complaining about something but it’s hard to tell what that is. Whatever it is you’re grumbling about, what are you doing while they’re off regenerating, are you saving your cooldowns for some other occasion?

Yeah I’m saving them for the next thief that comes by. Read a couple posts up maybe you’ll figure out who I was responding to.

Cecilia.5179:

perseco.8321:

The most OP I have ever seen from stealth was recently when a trapper condi thief had what basically amounts to permanent stealth. He downed me twice before finally killing me with just condi traps, and he never once came out of stealth before or after the engagement (a period of about 3-4 minutes), even to do the killing blow warstomp. I was basically fighting a ghost. This really should not be possible… my reaper has over 2.6k armor and over 21k hp.

Condi ghost thief is literally powerless if you cleanse and walk away.

I have to blow all my cleanses to survive its initial burst. Not all classes have the mobility to simply “walk away” before the condispam is reapplied.

The problematic nature of this build is not mitigated by being able to run away from it. Blowing all my cleanses and dashing into the nearest tower should not be the only counterplay available to me.

Aileras.9460:

Mushin.3928:

Agree with RodOfDeath. One reason I don’t get into roaming more is that it just looks so boring and lame. Roll the thief or condi mesmer and go gank people running to the zerg or taking a sentry. Just not my thing, but I guess it works for some people.

If you think about it, who in the real world has this behavior? kitten , pedophiles, serial killers and the like. I think that’s kind of telling. Just saying.

You play in WvW and take a shot at serial killer… oh for shame.. leave those poor guys alone… let them roam in peace. Now where was my roaming build….

PopeUrban.2578:

• Plays the least mobile class
• Decides to use it in a role that prioritizes mobility
• Complains that classes better suited for the role are better at it

World PvP is not about killing people. It is about objectives. Killing people is a method through which you claim objectives. If you are causing other players to run away, you are winning. If you want to play a game mode where killing is people is the primary focus, that is what Conquest is for. It is designed to funnel players in to very small spaces and force them to stay there to gain progress and rewards.

WvW is not designed for what you seem to think it is.

“Roaming” is just a fancier way of saying “I want to gank people and don’t care about contributing to my team.”

Scouts contribute to teams. They scout. It often means actively avoiding fights. Roamers just waste ques in an effort of find lopsided fights to stroke their egos, and complain when things don’t go their way.

WvW (and GW2 in general for that matter) is not designed around 1v1 fights. Attempting to make it so, then complaining the experience is lackluster is willful denial of the game you’re playing.

If you’re going to do something the game wasn’t designed to do in the first place, don’t complain that the thing you’re doing is poorly balanced.

You don’t understand roaming if that’s what you think it’s only about. When I am Roaming I am NOT looking for players to fight. I am taking camps, taking back camps, taking out sentries so our zergs can go places with less detection. If I have even one person with me then we are hitting and taking towers where we can as well.. Maybe tagging keeps to distract the enemy for our zerg… and so on.

THIS is what WvW is about, and THAT is what Roaming is really about. PvP roamers don’t have any place in WvW in my opinion… but true Roamers that do what I listed above are not only good to have, but very valuable to the commander on the map.

You people know that stealth makes you invisible, not invincible right? Can’t believe 4 years into the game and more reveals and stealth trap access than ever, stealth still OP. L2plaaaaaaayyy.

To OP, power necro is just no good vs nearly everything else right now. Change build, reroll whatever but the game won’t change for you. AoE AoE AoE. Count to 3, use Chilled To The Bone. Ez. Play a stealth class and you will learn how they move and use skills. Only then will you be able to counterplay them by predicting them.

Alright OP, I’m going to speak from a Thief/Reaper split main POV to help you along here. First, I need to ask you a few questions:

Are you a core necro or a reaper?

Are you power or condi? What build?

What weapons do you run?

Do you die to power or condition players more often? Have you fought against other professions extensively in duels, or mostly just these?

While stealth is a powerful mechanic (and one intended only to be so accessible to thieves and a little bit of mesmer), it’s likely not the reason you’re losing these fights. Aside from trapper thief (condi cheese) and PU condi mesmer (also cheese), none of the aforementioned can kill you while they’re in stealth. Stealth isn’t the mechanic that’s causing you to die unless you’re simply getting confused and hung up on it. It is disorienting, but if you’re playing well, it’s not what’s actually causing your opponents to outlast you directly.

Really what’s causing you to not be able to get the kills is their mobility and counters.

Thief shuts down the reaper quite well, especially if you’re building for chills. Daredevil negates most movement-impairing effects like cripple, chill, and immob just by dodging. Core thief also has withdraw which can cure disabling conditions nicely. Simply, the entire profession is designed around negating damage by not being hit, so it’s going to be able to kite you around, especially since you have limited ranged options, and even moreso if you’re not running Speed of Shadows, since Signet of the Locust doesn’t provide mobility in shroud.

In all seriousness, the Daredevil is your worst matchup as a reaper. Your capacity to fight will be entirely dependent on their ability to play well. If they know how to shut you down by using their speed and kiting potential, you’re SoL. You only pose an advantage when playing a power/damage-heavy build and they try to hard engage. I find myself in very binary situations when I play my berserker reaper against thieves: either the thief isn’t good and tries to melt me and they die in a single Soul Spiral (stealthed targets still take damage so AoE’s are great), or the thief knows how to kite me and I simply can’t keep up at all. It’s sucky, but it’s the truth. Much like how you can walk over warriors, eles, and classes/builds meant to take you head-on, the daredevil is meant to whittle down your shroud, leave you with no options or way to keep up, and kill you. If you play conditions, you’re slower, but should have defensive stats to sustain better. Constant pressure from scepter and LF management is really what’s needed to keep them hesitant to engage.

This is the advantage to running core necro; shroud 1 has ranged and can potentially zone out the Daredevil, and you’ve got a gap close teleport on 2. That said, it’s a difficult and risky way to go, as good thieves/daredevils will be able to beat you unless you start really nailing down the hurt.

Most roaming builds will run tons of mobility because they need to traverse the map quickly, and because they’re trying to take out or delay people running back to the blobs/fights with slow GvG builds. The reaper struggles as a whole with fast foes, so even against ele and war who know how to beat it, you’ll find yourself kited. Don’t tunnel-vision and keep your cool. If they’re trying to reset and kite you, do the same. Don’t sit around and waste shroud anticipating an attack, either; it’s not going to happen until you have no LF left.

Druids, eles, and sccrappers are boon-dependent and have a lot of blocks and/or reflects (especially scrappers). Corrupt them and kill them. Don’t try and play the sustain game with these classes, because they’re going to win it With that, it’s best to use Reaper’s Onslaught over Blighter’s Boon on the reaper, as the extra damage output will help tremendously. Recall that the scrapper has to get up close to kill you. Use that to your advantage, as their stealth is only gained by being in proximity to their drone. Focus the drone either with aggressive play with a ranged weapon early or engage the fight hard with AoE’s, and be ready to corrupt and hit them hard and fast. You need to get them to commit for their damage, and you need to be ready to kill them or come close as soon as they try. They have the mobility advantage, but if they misjudge you and over-commit, you have the upper hand. Be sure you have stability for the end of the drone’s life bar as when it dies it will CC. Do not get over-aggressive from the blocks and invuln from elixir S.

As a core necro, be mindful of the amount of reflects the ele and scrapper have. They’ll have them frequently and readily. It’s thus important you get around these defenses, to which I recommend using A/F (power) or S/F (condi), and even works excellently on Reaper. Both do not have projectiles which can be reflected on their AA chains, and provide boon removal or corruptions to negate their advantage as soon as they engage, while providing excellent vuln application, some degree of soft CC, and in the case of Axe, burst-LF generation and high burst damage from Ghastly Claws.

Mesmers are difficult depending on how good they are, similarly to thieves. While a bit slower, they have a much better ranged game, which can make them more difficult to keep up with on a reaper. Most mesmers run aggressive condition builds featuring incredible confusion and torment access and a lot of power-damage mitigation, so having transfers is excellent for the fight. If you run staff, it’s advantageous to get stacked up with conditions, clear the frequent blind application with an AA or Mark og Blood, and transfer it all back to the mesmer using Putrid Mark. Such mesmers will often kill themselves due to limited cleansing options, and this will open up possibilities of hitting them with chillblains and whirling the poison field with Soul Spiral as a reaper to deal as much damage as possible to them and their clones, or Life Transfer/Tainted Shackles as a core necro, since their limited cleansing likely burned from the transfers will enable you to either lock them down with the immob. The order can be switched around as to burn their cleanse via the immob and return their conditions back to them to kill them as they try to run away.

GS + A/F is great for fighting power players, Staff + A/F for conditions with the transfer on Staff 4 and burst on Axe 2 and Focus 5.

Overall, the problem the necro has with roaming-based builds is being zoned out by these builds via superior mobility and range, rather than stealth itself. Even while the enemies are stealthed, they’re moving and doing their best to re-position in a way that gives them distance to you. It’s best to try and predict where they’re going to go next while stealthed and consider the fight from their perspective as well. The art to beating stealth is truthfully to play a class that uses it (I do recommend the thief as it will teach you the best), figure out some of its nuances, and work to beat the players rather than the mechanics.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

You people know that stealth makes you invisible, not invincible right? Can’t believe 4 years into the game and more reveals and stealth trap access than ever, stealth still OP. L2plaaaaaaayyy.

To OP, power necro is just no good vs nearly everything else right now. Change build, reroll whatever but the game won’t change for you. AoE AoE AoE. Count to 3, use Chilled To The Bone. Ez. Play a stealth class and you will learn how they move and use skills. Only then will you be able to counterplay them by predicting them.

I do pretty decent with my power necro actually, just have to run some toughness for the most part and get some protection up. But Beepboop guy is right, I learned how to counter classes by playing the class and learning what did what. It’s a pain leveling one, but it will help you learn how they move and timing on skills.

RodOfDeath.5247:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

You people know that stealth makes you invisible, not invincible right? Can’t believe 4 years into the game and more reveals and stealth trap access than ever, stealth still OP. L2plaaaaaaayyy.

To OP, power necro is just no good vs nearly everything else right now. Change build, reroll whatever but the game won’t change for you. AoE AoE AoE. Count to 3, use Chilled To The Bone. Ez. Play a stealth class and you will learn how they move and use skills. Only then will you be able to counterplay them by predicting them.

I do pretty decent with my power necro actually, just have to run some toughness for the most part and get some protection up. But Beepboop guy is right, I learned how to counter classes by playing the class and learning what did what. It’s a pain leveling one, but it will help you learn how they move and timing on skills.

Don’t even have to level to 80, just hot join or PvP queue is enough. I’d share my 800 tomes tho, too much bank space.