Guild Wars 2

The one question I have head the most when playing in WvW is how can He/She hide for so long, not that I find the fact that someone can hide for so long unfair, If they have built there player that way so be it, What really seams wrong to me is once that player has entered combat He/She is able to hide again with-out leaving the area even whilst He/She is being hit, In my opinion that is so unrealistic and in some ways spoils what is a very good game, if the player had to move out of melee range before He/She could stealth again after entering combat I think it would be far more realistic this would still give a good stealth build the opportunity to hide in a camp but even then if they have been found by other player searching and taken damage they should have to move out of melee rage before being able to hide again. I myself have just seen a fight where one stealth player who was able to out fight 6 other players for over 15 minutes and even revive someone just inside the gate at Mendon’s Tower in Eternal Battlegrounds

I would like to know what other players think of the above

CC, AoE, L2P.

I think that’s hard to understand wall of text you have typed here.

For good or bad, Stealth is a thief’s(and PU mesmer nowadays I guess >_>) main mechanic. A whole traitline is tied up into it(and the only good condition removal), so any change can be class breaking. Stealth can’t be changed without massive buffs in other areas… which will make the class akin to a warrior, just with steal instead burst. Do we want that?

Also, fighting a thief 1v1 in the open is a bad idea too, unless you have played a thief for a long time(thieves are predictable if you have, the moment you see their weapon set you know what to expect and if you are able to counter it(and how – on my warr, I change 1 utility), so you will have the advantage).

Stealth is really strong as theres no risk vs reward tied to it, its all reward. Its just even amplified to ridiculousness when its a d/p thief, p/d condi, or PU condi mesmer.

PjSmyth.9724:

… What really seams wrong to me is once that player has entered combat He/She is able to hide again with-out leaving the area even whilst He/She is being hit, In my opinion that is so unrealistic and in some ways spoils what is a very good game,

There are players calling fire from the heavens, raising the dead, turning into trees, etc and this is what you point out as unrealistic..? :x

You and I get into a boxing ring. You are wearing a set of shutter glasses that open for 3 seconds every several seconds. I come around a sucker punch you, that’s when the shutters open. During those open 3 seconds I throw some powder into your eyes causing you to miss your first attack or waste a second cleansing and then I evade your following attack. 3 seconds are up the shutters close, I laugh as I see you flailing your arms around and then I come around and sucker punch you again. Who has the upper hand in this fight?

Julie Yann.5379:

You and I get into a boxing ring. You are wearing a set of shutter glasses that open for 3 seconds every several seconds. I come around a sucker punch you, that’s when the shutters open. During those open 3 seconds I throw some powder into your eyes causing you to miss your first attack or waste a second cleansing and then I evade your following attack. 3 seconds are up the shutters close, I laugh as I see you flailing your arms around and then I come around and sucker punch you again. Who has the upper hand in this fight?

Me because you’re still poisoned, burning, bleeding, confused, vulnerable, tormented, chilled, blind, crippled, etc while my shutters are closed… and you also fall over very easily. Aka…

Viking Jorun.5413:

CC, AoE, L2P.

There are aspects of going “stealth extreme” which are silly for thieves. Such as when you essentially can perma stealth and have a minor Zerg chasing you.

Stealth in general is fine. It could be tweaked to do less base damage but ignore armor to make it more of a melee (warrior, guardian) counter.

It is not overpower, it is just a broken mechanic on every mmorpg that implement it. With the exception of aion where it actually had real counters and not made up ones like dodge or l2p nonsense players post in the forum to defend it. With that said, thieves are still easy to defeat with my Ele even if they constantly stealth. The problem lies with Mesmers abusing this mechanic now as well. They are a lot more challenging if the player is good.

the thing i find with stealth spamming classed, is that the are alot more fun to play then fight, i get no enjoyment fighting a thief or a mez, aside for the satisfaction of spiking one but i know it from them making a mistake not from something that i did.

the worst thing about a thief is once i realize that we are stalemated (ie they use their stealth to well for me to get any more the 1 or 2 hits off and i can take a few back stabs) , i have to wait for them to give up, as trying to run away from a thief is the easiest way to get killed by one (nikey warriors being the exception). They are completely in control of the fight.

PjSmyth.9724:

The one question I have head the most when playing in WvW is how can He/She hide for so long, not that I find the fact that someone can hide for so long unfair, If they have built there player that way so be it, What really seams wrong to me is once that player has entered combat He/She is able to hide again with-out leaving the area even whilst He/She is being hit, In my opinion that is so unrealistic and in some ways spoils what is a very good game, if the player had to move out of melee range before He/She could stealth again after entering combat I think it would be far more realistic this would still give a good stealth build the opportunity to hide in a camp but even then if they have been found by other player searching and taken damage they should have to move out of melee rage before being able to hide again. I myself have just seen a fight where one stealth player who was able to out fight 6 other players for over 15 minutes and even revive someone just inside the gate at Mendon’s Tower in Eternal Battlegrounds

I would like to know what other players think of the above

If you really wanted to know what other players thought about it you could have read the umpteen zillion other threads on the topic of stealth that have been posted here over the past 15 months or so. You know you can search the archives, right?

What we have here? Another Champion Hunter with unbinded skills and keyboard turning?

If you cannot win against a thief ingame you fight them in forums by creating new QQ threads every day? Bravo!

If you lose against a player which use lots of stealth, fight a lot with him in 1vs1. After a few weeks of playing, you can dodge attack they use in stealth. Stealth is really strong against new players, but if you learn to play your class you will win 8/10 fights again thiefs

I have always thought that the Mesmer should have far more limited stealth options than the thief (more like a fast blink).

I agree on toning down Mesmer’s access to stealth but would not just change stealth as a mechanic especially for thieves (outside limiting perma stealth).

PjSmyth.9724:

The one question I have head the most when playing in WvW is how can He/She hide for so long, not that I find the fact that someone can hide for so long unfair, If they have built there player that way so be it, What really seams wrong to me is once that player has entered combat He/She is able to hide again with-out leaving the area even whilst He/She is being hit, In my opinion that is so unrealistic and in some ways spoils what is a very good game, if the player had to move out of melee range before He/She could stealth again after entering combat I think it would be far more realistic this would still give a good stealth build the opportunity to hide in a camp but even then if they have been found by other player searching and taken damage they should have to move out of melee rage before being able to hide again. I myself have just seen a fight where one stealth player who was able to out fight 6 other players for over 15 minutes and even revive someone just inside the gate at Mendon’s Tower in Eternal Battlegrounds

I would like to know what other players think of the above

You know that for all stealth weapons sets except one (D/P) you actually have to get into melee range and hit your target successfully to stealth, right? Well what am I thinking, ofc you don’t.

stealth isn’t broken, some people exploit it as much as possible cause its a powerful tool. How to fix? Learn how to hunt thieves. I made a warrior for this cause I got sick of them. Now I laugh when they try running and I take them down cause there backstab/heartseeker spam didn’t work. Pro tip, if a thief stealths 9 times out of 10 you can just drop aoe on yourself or circle strafe where you are standing with cleaving melee and hit them. If a thief wants to regen/reset at range then do the same till they reveal themselves and get back on them. CC them to death while revealed and cleave them down if they try to stealth.
There are only a few obnoxious thieves ingame as most others get frustrated with “stealth /= invulnerable” against pretty much any roamer that’s of bronze rank. Keep breaking them and they will eventually roll a warrior or guardian ;-)

If that fails, roll Norn and use SnowLeopard as your elite lol.

Aberrant.6749:

Julie Yann.5379:

You and I get into a boxing ring. You are wearing a set of shutter glasses that open for 3 seconds every several seconds. I come around a sucker punch you, that’s when the shutters open. During those open 3 seconds I throw some powder into your eyes causing you to miss your first attack or waste a second cleansing and then I evade your following attack. 3 seconds are up the shutters close, I laugh as I see you flailing your arms around and then I come around and sucker punch you again. Who has the upper hand in this fight?

Me because you’re still poisoned, burning, bleeding, confused, vulnerable, tormented, chilled, blind, crippled, etc while my shutters are closed… and you also fall over very easily. Aka…

I forgot to mention that when your shutters are closed, I am cleansing conditions and regenerating.

PjSmyth.9724:

Stealth is it over powered

In every game it has been implemented in. Yes.

Julie Yann.5379:

Aberrant.6749:

Julie Yann.5379:

You and I get into a boxing ring. You are wearing a set of shutter glasses that open for 3 seconds every several seconds. I come around a sucker punch you, that’s when the shutters open. During those open 3 seconds I throw some powder into your eyes causing you to miss your first attack or waste a second cleansing and then I evade your following attack. 3 seconds are up the shutters close, I laugh as I see you flailing your arms around and then I come around and sucker punch you again. Who has the upper hand in this fight?

Me because you’re still poisoned, burning, bleeding, confused, vulnerable, tormented, chilled, blind, crippled, etc while my shutters are closed… and you also fall over very easily. Aka…

I forgot to mention that when your shutters are closed, I am cleansing conditions and regenerating.

One every 3s… oh noes… my eng totally can’t put out more aoe conds than that. I mean one single attack can only apply 4+ conds. What do?! Good point.

No other game allows perma stealth, stealthing while in combat and no hard counters to stealth. If you haven’t played a thief you don’t know how laughably opd it is in this game. In daoc, there was a long cd from combat to stealth or I had to use a very long cd skill. Daoc also had see hidden, mastery of stealth, etc, same with lolhammer and Aion.

Pavel.8531:

I think that’s hard to understand wall of text you have typed here.

For good or bad, Stealth is a thief’s(and PU mesmer nowadays I guess >_>) main mechanic. A whole traitline is tied up into it(and the only good condition removal), so any change can be class breaking. Stealth can’t be changed without massive buffs in other areas… which will make the class akin to a warrior, just with steal instead burst. Do we want that?

Also, fighting a thief 1v1 in the open is a bad idea too, unless you have played a thief for a long time(thieves are predictable if you have, the moment you see their weapon set you know what to expect and if you are able to counter it(and how – on my warr, I change 1 utility), so you will have the advantage).

However the weaponset thing can be a bit off sometimes too. Often i see thieves run X/X and SB. SB mostly cuz of AOE blast spam, tagging and bloodlust stacking. However the SB is rarely if at all their main set, and thus you can not always tell what build they really use before it is too late and you are in combat.

I’ll tell you what is overpowered, The many exploits and Hacks that plague this game and the lack of Anet doing anything about them. It will be the inevitable downfall of GW2.

Sanduskel.1850:

No other game allows perma stealth, stealthing while in combat and no hard counters to stealth. If you haven’t played a thief you don’t know how laughably opd it is in this game. In daoc, there was a long cd from combat to stealth or I had to use a very long cd skill. Daoc also had see hidden, mastery of stealth, etc, same with lolhammer and Aion.

Yea it’s not like you can stop the thief from entering stealth other than blinding powder… and no skills that cause revealed exist… oh wait…

Bad attempt 1/10. You can do better than this.

Aberrant.6749:

Sanduskel.1850:

No other game allows perma stealth, stealthing while in combat and no hard counters to stealth. If you haven’t played a thief you don’t know how laughably opd it is in this game. In daoc, there was a long cd from combat to stealth or I had to use a very long cd skill. Daoc also had see hidden, mastery of stealth, etc, same with lolhammer and Aion.

Yea it’s not like you can stop the thief from entering stealth other than blinding powder… and no skills that cause revealed exist… oh wait…

Bad attempt 1/10. You can do better than this.

He’s lost his touch, hasn’t he? All those funny and engaging posts are gone. Wonder what happened.

If thieves can perma-stealth then every other class should have an ‘oh sh—t’ button like give guardians an insta aoe full heal :}

My main problem with stealth isn’t with stealth itself…it’s the easy accessibility for a thief to pull it off AT LONG RANGE if they’re running D/P. D/P makes it way too much, what with the Blinding Powder/Heartseeker combo for easy stealth. It’s not fun for a thief to constantly stealth and backstab to win…and fixing it so you can’t spam it easily with that weapon set would solve the problem.

I’m sorry, I’ve ran that weaponset to kill before while testing out builds, it’s too easy to Black Powder -> Heartseeker into stealth, and then backstab somebody for lots of damage. It’s especially annoying since the only cooldown is basically the 3 for reveal and whatever time it takes you to get back into stealth. It’s not hard to have only a 5 second downtime between stealths, and for you to KEEP having that downtime over the course of a fight. While you can also pull off the same sort of stealth spam (to a lesser amount) with offhand Dagger’s #5, you have to be close to the enemy to use it, and it’s far easier to make close range a minefield to destroy a thief than it is when they’re doing it from long range.

Yea like, stealth’s cool down should increase the more you use it or something.

My fellow thieves: do you realize that anet cannot buff thieves with perma stealth in its current state? Whether or not you believe it’s a l2p issue is besides the point. The hue and cry from the population would be deafening. If you want improvements to our class as I do, you should be advocating for fixes to stealth.

As for preventing stealth or being revealed, lol. Decent thieves don’t fall for those

Thieves don’t need buffs and they don’t need nerfs. Stealth is fine as well. You either kill the thief or they run away because they have no skill. Either way it is a win.

style.6173:

Thieves don’t need buffs and they don’t need nerfs. Stealth is fine as well. You either kill the thief or they run away because they have no skill. Either way it is a win.

Some people are children that throw a fit because they couldn’t get a stomp off. Not only that, but people run around with their heads cut off when a thief stealths, rather than controlling the fight, using mobility to create ground between you and the thief, and coming back when he breaks stealth or comes out of it. It’s hilarious when people think that “thief stealthed = thief wins”.

To give them credit though Viking, for a zerker thief, them being stealthed DOES almost guarantee a win for them. I see more zerker thieves in WvW than any other build, sadly, which explains the constant complaints that stealth is OP, since every zerker thief runs D/P, which has a constant source of stealth attached to it due to how Black Powder works.

I still wonder whose bright idea it was to put the smoke field on the thief rather than their target…especially since reversing it so it’s on the target instead of the thief would almost instantly destroy the EZ spam stealth builds, since only CnD would be left to spam stealth with (and it’s far easier to counter a zerker thief abusing that than it is one abusing Black Powder).

i think stealth is crucial mechanic for a mmorpg but thief in gw2 is overdid it.
it is a fatal design flaw (and i know people likes to exploits design flaw) and a really annoying as hell especially in wvw.
stealthing in combat should be very limited since it completely bonkers an encounter.
i actually know that during one combat a thief should die more than 8 times before actually died because of that kitten mechanic.
those people who defended stealth should know better. there is no risk in it, if things go bad you can just bail a fight and return when you have full health.

sure warrior and their nut-for-balls sneaker can run away and you cant catch em (which is hilarious, maybe we should call running warrior a janitor or something)
but they give a visible sign if they approach you again unlike thief that will just pop poison, run away till he have full health and fight you again or bail off. it is not fun for the people with light armor since even is you use tanky spec they hit you for 6 to 8k which is roughly 30% of hp and they can do so many times during a fight.

traited right stealth in thief give regen, cure condition, give power, swiftness etc etc
and they way the can easily exploited makes bad player look like good player and good player a pain in the kitten . and by the way most thief are very touchy about this subject proves that most of them are bad and cant have this kitten mechanic toned down in any way in order for them to continue playing (it is the cue for a major nerf hammer i say, gw2 is too forgiving for lousy player, looking at warriors and thieves)

i cant say the same about stealth for mesmer, although it is annoying with all the clones and phantasms + stealth in the end they always keeled over (and my wurm happily eat them over and over again) because their stealth are limited and the cool down are reasonably long so you can actually hit something other than air (or clones in this subject).

Sanduskel.1850:

My fellow thieves: do you realize that anet cannot buff thieves with perma stealth in its current state? Whether or not you believe it’s a l2p issue is besides the point. The hue and cry from the population would be deafening. If you want improvements to our class as I do, you should be advocating for fixes to stealth.

As for preventing stealth or being revealed, lol. Decent thieves don’t fall for those

Again, Sandy, saying that something is OP simply because the populous says so, the earth – by that logic – would still be flat.

Isolating one thing as the cause of all OPness (hee hee Pness) is kinda silly to do. D/d thieves are really not bad at all since CnD can be dodged. The “problem” with stealth is the d/p weapon set coupled with how initiative works. No other class can lay down a field then spam a finisher: SB for blast spam, HS for leap spam, etc. What I am saying here is you can’t just isolate stealth as the most evil, worst thing ever, omg it’s terrible, thing.

Is the fact that I am supposed to consider a thief running away “winning” slightly annoying to me? Yeah, I’ll admit it. Do I think that blanket nerfing stealth will help the game in a positive way, no. If you change stealth (not nerf it) you would need to significantly change some of the other thief mechanics to compensate, namely giving them some other form of defense. One thing I would be an advocate for is more blinds/dodges/evades for thieves. These things are inherently less frustrating because while they provide as much (if not more) defense than stealth, you can still see your opponent. But any time changes to stealth are brought up thieves usually murder you through the interweb. Oh well, poop happens.

Julie Yann.5379:

You and I get into a boxing ring. You are wearing a set of shutter glasses that open for 3 seconds every several seconds. I come around a sucker punch you, that’s when the shutters open. During those open 3 seconds I throw some powder into your eyes causing you to miss your first attack or waste a second cleansing and then I evade your following attack. 3 seconds are up the shutters close, I laugh as I see you flailing your arms around and then I come around and sucker punch you again. Who has the upper hand in this fight?

I realize i have no reason for being in a boxing ring with you when we’re playing a football game and get back with my team mates ?

Lets be specific. Hate on perma-stealth and not stealth.

Another topic Stealth is overpowered and I cant resist post again.

Its L2P!!! Yeah of course you dont like to hear that. But its true.
My main is Thief(over 1400hrs). I was running D/P, but after Dec10 switch to D/D.
With D/D I have more burst, cause of Cloak and Dagger. I love it.

But my point is, I also made warrior and mesmer for roaming and I can kill, or force them to run, 9 of 10 thieves. Why? Cause I play one as my main. I have tricks like count/dodge etc.

I wont tell u my tricks, stop crying, make Thief for yourself and play him two weeks.

Worthag.1362:

Another topic Stealth is overpowered and I cant resist post again.

Its L2P!!! Yeah of course you dont like to hear that. But its true.
My main is Thief(over 1400hrs). I was running D/P, but after Dec10 switch to D/D.
With D/D I have more burst, cause of Cloak and Dagger. I love it.

But my point is, I also made warrior and mesmer for roaming and I can kill, or force them to run, 9 of 10 thieves. Why? Cause I play one as my main. I have tricks like count/dodge etc.

I wont tell u my tricks, stop crying, make Thief for yourself and play him two weeks.

I am going to respect your opinion of “l2p” when you roam with a non-op class. And surely you run a PU mesmer too. And of course, i haven’t problem vs thief with my warrior, when i roam and there is a lot of thief i am forced to change to my warrior to continue roaming. Is not L2P, is counter with another broken class.

Even I have no problem with d/d thief, the problem is the d/p one, the constant reset of the fight in long term they win it, maybe after several tries.

That bs of “they run away” is a lie. No thief run away, they going to try over and over until win, they have nothing to lose, a well played d/p thief never die.

Short stealth skills with cool downs are fine… the stealth that thieves can get off is over the top… you should not be able to stealth and re-stealth and re-stealth over and over and over on to infinity. It needs to be fixed for the good of the game – by all means buff the class some more, but make it so thieves have to chose when to use their stealth wisely…

Yes i also play thief…

Thiefs have too much stealth, it seems likes its almost perma.

urieldhynne.2743:

Worthag.1362:

Another topic Stealth is overpowered and I cant resist post again.

Its L2P!!! Yeah of course you dont like to hear that. But its true.
My main is Thief(over 1400hrs). I was running D/P, but after Dec10 switch to D/D.
With D/D I have more burst, cause of Cloak and Dagger. I love it.

But my point is, I also made warrior and mesmer for roaming and I can kill, or force them to run, 9 of 10 thieves. Why? Cause I play one as my main. I have tricks like count/dodge etc.

I wont tell u my tricks, stop crying, make Thief for yourself and play him two weeks.

I am going to respect your opinion of “l2p” when you roam with a non-op class. And surely you run a PU mesmer too. And of course, i haven’t problem vs thief with my warrior, when i roam and there is a lot of thief i am forced to change to my warrior to continue roaming. Is not L2P, is counter with another broken class.

Even I have no problem with d/d thief, the problem is the d/p one, the constant reset of the fight in long term they win it, maybe after several tries.

That bs of “they run away” is a lie. No thief run away, they going to try over and over until win, they have nothing to lose, a well played d/p thief never die.

So what class isn’t broken? I have no problem with thieves on my engie thanks to all the aoe I can lay down, Necro is the same. Guardians are pretty darn tough and a good one should be able to take a thief, so what’s left? Rangers and eles, 1 of which was nerfed in to the ground and the other has been broken from the start.

You all should learn to ask for them to buff up the classes with problems rather than nerf something that you have a hard time fighting against.

If you look at the other thread on the exact same topic a keyboard turning, skill clicking, zerker ranger apparently has no problem killing thieves. If they are so OP why is it that what is arguably the worst profession in the game, running the the most obvious build, being played in the least effective way, is having no problem killing them?

Sanduskel.1850:

No other game allows perma stealth, stealthing while in combat and no hard counters to stealth. If you haven’t played a thief you don’t know how laughably opd it is in this game. In daoc, there was a long cd from combat to stealth or I had to use a very long cd skill. Daoc also had see hidden, mastery of stealth, etc, same with lolhammer and Aion.

that’s a lie
there are plenty of games that allow perma stealth as well as stealthing during combat

in many games stealth offers way more powerfull spells as well than just backstab

Of course it is, you cannot see your enemy, while they can see you. How is that not completly overpowered.

Stealth is a game mechanic that follows DAoC. If gw2 is DAOC2 then stealth as to stay

stealth needs a rework asap. that .2 sec out of stealth is unacceptable.

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

stealth needs a rework asap. that .2 sec out of stealth is unacceptable.

yeah, .2 sec is ridiculous. They should really bump revealed up to something like 3 or 4 seconds.

Jim Hunter.6821:

You all should learn to ask for them to buff up the classes with problems rather than nerf something that you have a hard time fighting against.

Stealth is not only op, is annoying, frustrating to play against, is low risk, high reward, stealth is so kitteng prone to exploit in the actual state, stealth is design for a pve, NOT EVEN REAL PVE, JUST casual pve. is pretty simple, is black or white, without any kind of complexity and without real counter, is just an spameable invisibility, is that simple like that.

And yet there are tons of people who have no problem fighting them. all you have to do is play as one for a few weeks to understand how they work and you’ll stop getting your kitten handed to you.

half the people calling for a nerf seem to be under the impression that cooling is still keeping them invisible for the duration of the fight. They have weaknesses, learn them.

On thieves? No.

On mesmers? Maybe.