Guild Wars 2

Do the majority of people in this thread realise that commander is also used outside of WvW? I know a number of commanders on our server that solely use it to help out the zerg doing the quest chains in Straits of Devastation, etc., in PvE.

Let players opt to see Commander tags outside our own guild.

Like chat options. Let us filter what we see and don’t.

Dhar.6392:

Let players opt to see Commander tags outside our own guild.

Like chat options. Let us filter what we see and don’t.

If you mouse over the blue dot you can see who it is and whether they are in your guild You can even join their squad to hide all the other commanders.

I think cmdr symbol is fine as is, don’t follow people you don’t know (I’d think that would be obvious.)
Worst case they lead the zerg off to do dumb stuff… Not like they’d be doing anything more useful without that guy. A zerg walking up to SM happens with or without a commander leading them there, and whether or not people tell them in map chat its folly.

Also not sure why people get so riled up about commanders being in LA with it on.

I don’t have any problem with your blue pin. I have a problem when blue pins start bossing people around and ridiculing them in Team, then making some lame arguement that if everyone doesn’t do exactly as the commander says, we will lose.

Just change the title to Guild Rep.

Commander implies the right to command, and most players are buying into it or being bullied into it.

I actually saw a commander tell someone to get out of WvW and let a ‘real player’ in. Yeah, some people may be a waste of space, but this was just a new player trying to help and didn’t do anything wrong besides ask a valid question.

Or, start a rep system for commanders. Afraid people will grief you? Then don’t buy the tag or learn better people skills. If enough people downvote you, you lose your tag (and to leave rep, you must spend 30 striaght days on a server).

Easiest just to change the title. Buying command is dumb. Keep the pin, lose the title.

Verbal abuse isn’t acceptable from anyone; right click > report then ignore them if you would prefer not to listen to it.

a rep system would be pretty dumb IMO, though. Too easy to abuse.

If you mouse over the blue dot you can see who it is and whether they are in your guild You can even join their squad to hide all the other commanders.

I’m aware of that- however, when there are 8 Commander tags on the map I should not have to waste time trying to see where mine or the one I want to follow is. That’s the whole point of the thread… there are too many blue dots these days.

To fix the problem with the commanders who only want there people to see you. The 100g title could be used to give the right to make a 15-20 man party. Where everyone sees each other. problem fixed

Dhar.6392:

I’m aware of that- however, when there are 8 Commander tags on the map I should not have to waste time trying to see where mine or the one I want to follow is. That’s the whole point of the thread… there are too many blue dots these days.

But if you join their squad the rest are hidden!

maybe the current commander title should be pve only – and a separate new wvw commander title for wvw – based on achievement requirements and purchased with badges. – I think it may be the easiest way to fix this to not penalize pve’rs in the process.

@samstein – having the commander title is no indication of a person knowing how to win rofl. you can buy the stupid thing without ever having stepped foot on a wvw battleground. how does that prove that person knows what they are doing? simple. it doesnt in any way, shape or form. you also cannot make it a guild achieve, or anything to do with guilds. that would make a ton of people join guilds that can get it, again letting a lot of schlubs who have no clue whats going on get it if they happen to have those requirements. i have seen many guilds that are supposedly wvw centered, but every commander in them only knows how to zerg, so that doesnt help. it cannot be an election process in any way, that would lead to the popularity contest that is already one of the big problems.

as a pvp veteran on wow and a casual player, i am rather proud of the 100,000 honorable kill and title achieve i got there. its not easy to get in the slightest, and the in game respect earned from getting it is nice. they have figured a way for people to earn that, there is no reason why anet cant come up with a way for people to earn this commander title as well.

I’ve been participating in WvW since launch and I love that aspect of the game. I’m working on my Commander Title because I see too many players trying to lead without understanding that it’s very difficult to lead PUGs. I come from a small guild, we used to have 20+ active and now we have 3+ active. But, I’m still in WvW having fun. I have 3 of each print on me at all times. I also realize the importance of supply, something most players HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT.

While I agree the Commanders Title should not be just something you can buy, you can argue the other side as well. Just because a person has X amount of kills does not make that player a good leader. It’s very easy to follow a zerg around and get badges. There are also issues with the Commander Title overall:

1. Too many players on the maps try to lead. Everyone thinks their way is the right way.

2. Too many players don’t follow direction. Again, this will always be an issue in PUGS.

3. Commanders do not have the ability to create groups. This is the ONE feature that must be added. If I’m the Commander with a squad of 20 I should be able to make two groups of 10 and send them off.

4. In general chat there should be a way to differentiate when a Commander speaks. You cannot tell who is saying what in /team or /map or whatever. It could be the moron who thinks aiming at Garr for 30 minutes straight is a great idea.

5. Don’t blame the Commander if he sucks. I know most of the Commander names, and I know which ones are good and which are bad. As a player in WvW you should know within a few days of seeing a Commander if he/she is worth following.

There’s no question there are flaws in the system, but forcing someone to get 100 gold for this title is pretty steep. I’m almost there and let me say farming 100 gold is HARD WORK. The bottom line is there is no clear cut way to decipher if a player is “worthy” of the Commander Title.

imo a commander should be – 2 – 3 people scouting for enemy zergs and scouting for sites to cap ….. 1 person gathering info and telling the person with the icon where to take the zerg team next. A commander on the field should focus on keeping his team alive and capping sites – he should not have to stop and figure out a plan without any intelligence. The current way commanders lead is pretty much guess work without a good intelligence team.

Once servers are locked down it should be less of an issue, most competent commanders that are playing WvW day in, day out tend to be recognized and the majority tends to figure out who to follow.

Heck, its nice anyways not having a commander tag and leading 3 commanders around because I outrank them in guild lol. I really should get one instead of using my ghetto tag (LFG)lol.

Ricky.4706:

imo a commander should be – 2 – 3 people scouting for enemy zergs and scouting for sites to cap ….. 1 person gathering info and telling the person with the icon where to take the zerg team next. A commander on the field should focus on keeping his team alive and capping sites – he should not have to stop and figure out a plan without any intelligence. The current way commanders lead is pretty much guess work without a good intelligence team.

commanders, in order to be successful, should:

send out 2man scout grps to eyeball keeps, towers, supply, movement etc, and those scouts reporting in regularly, while taking out dolyaks n sentry points on their runs

2 10mans taking every supply dump, then moving on, of the current enemy color being the biggest pain in the rear close to your territory. you cant build any upgrades or sieges with no supplies. ive been on the wrong end of having a map full of our keeps/towers with no supplies. not fun. if they go back n take the supply you just took, circle back around n take it again. if they know you have at least 1 10man out there it forces them to send a grp to attack them, taking from their main force

if you are not taking a well defended keep or the castle, split the main force and hit 2 dif points on the map away from each other. it not only forces them to split but gives you more time to pound the base while they are still running to defend. it splits your forces too, but thats part of the risk you take in battlegrounds. and if you have 2 attacks going, you face a smaller force. the only other choice is zerg. no fun, its a big pointless excercise that gets you nowhere.

meanwhile, every person should always have supplies, that is a must, no excuses. if you dont have any get them, even if you have to take a long arsed run away somewhere in some cases. your 5 of the 10 you have may finish a ram and allow you to take a keep with seconds to spare. and those who can afford sieges should always carry them too, just dont place them within range of other sieges or at spots you dont fully control yet. you not only waste your silver but it is useless to the attack/defense if you drop it and cant finish it or cant man it

just one way i do sometimes, but i am not a commander, though i have done it on occasion in the off hours. the last time, we were very successful with this strategy and took our entire bl map with one keep exception.

i myself prefer to be one of those 10mans running around ganking supply dumps; i like to think of myself as that gruff sergeant in old war movies w the unlit cigar, who got busted down in rank because he was scapegoat for a different officer’s flub. he is low level but knows more about the big picture than many of the people in charge who dont like him and is needed. the charr voice goes well with that too.

anyway by the time we took the entire bl map an actual commander had shown up and took over, thankfully, because i was drunk off my gourd. :P

well said, I’m not a commander either, but often when In game, I do try to help with providing intelligence and point out targets / warn of zergs – often when they do listen / work together – it works out very well

Commander Titles that are bought give people an undeserved sense of accomplishment and superiority. Heck, thats why you called them “Commanders” and made them visible.

Commander titles are usual spoiled people, who dont share, want the credit, and aren’t actually concerned for WvW beyond bragging about how THEY took the “X” and no one wouldnt of known “Y” without them.

It is a popularity contest, the best players dont have commander icons. End of story. Who’d spend a 100g so they could have all the noobs pm them saying “WHAT DO I DO” and not actually being able to give them a good answer.

p.s – yes there are good commanders out there. ratio is about 1:10. But when you can power lvl a character to 80 with only 30g in less then a couple hours and buy your commander title on the same day, in the end its about whose got the biggest wallet.

- Tzenjin

My take on commanders is thus:

Make it so that the guild leader of the guild that owns a tower or keep for more than 3 hours gets a commander tag.

This way you know
1. the tag was obtained through at the very least, someone in the guild actually doing WvWvW
2. guilds looking to get tags are given an incentive to actively take objectives
3. guilds looking to get tags are given an incentive to actively defend their own captured objectives
4. anyone with a commander tag is at the very least a guild leader, and thus has some experience leading people

It’s not a perfect solution, as a small group of players could capture and hold a tower, giving their guild leader a tag when he may be very bad at WvWvW. But I feel like that’s worth the tradeoff of eliminating commanders who simply have money.

People are just buying gold with real money anyway, so the only ones who get shafted are people who try to earn their gold in-game the good traditional way.
Also, 2 nights ago.. 4 commanders on Desolation/Arborstone BL zerging pointlessly in a single spot while none of them had anyone actually watch a keep which was promptly lost, that was just terrible.

Hmm. I tried leading my guild without the commander icon, saying on me did not work too well without it. SO i completely agree Guilds should have an internal icon which we can also invite ally’s to see, this would be a reasonable solution.

The problem is I want to see other comanders on the map, sometimes I sit in a keep and do dog work for the guild with my commander off, again I need to see what all commanders are doing.

Yes there are alot of commanders out there where I just go wtf are they doing or who appear on a border and don’t ask if they can help or even what the situation is.

it is a bit of a mess, but I am not 100% sure of a solution.

To those who have just spouted the same old troll rubbish about avoiding all commanders, I think its a kitten shame you have not been able to find a good one. I love following our two main commanders and in fact most of the random allies on the map follow them to.

That’s a horrible idea…Commanders that are only viewable by guilds…

So I have to join a guild to be capable of being seen as a commander? Even though command points more towards managing forces? Military Commanders who are Commissioned Officers always Command Enlisted Officers in the field of battle, and do companies say “oh lets not follow him because he isn’t in the same company or division?”

The answer is no.

The commander is respected because he is trained and tested for the job.

One day I want to have Commander Rank as well, but not before raising my my eight characters (one per profession, yes I have 8 character slots) to 80 (and none of that crafting from 1 – 80 shortcut) and having a lot of personal experience with different builds, timing and other things. I do like WvW but I see its problems.

Arenanet already did the damage by putting commander up for 100g. Changing it now would take away from the players who want to purchase it. However, I believe commander should be extended in some ways and such extentions should be earned and not bought.

The commander icon has important uses. It’s easier to follow the troop movement on the map, you know when help arrives to save the tower you are defending etc,

However, it’s the text associated with the icon that matters not the icon. On SBI we have tons of commanders. I always check them. Those I know to be good I follow. Those I know to be bad – I ignore. Those I don’t know yet – I give them a chance.

Great write up Wulfe. In Age of Conan on our server, leaders grew out of the community rather then the other way around, we simply had raid groups and voice comms to work with, but it worked. It would be nice if commanders had some more features to work with, like forming groups within their squad, and possibly setting a squad size limit including hiding their icon from all but those in their squad. A lot of the interest my guild had in W3 has gone into a bit of a funk lately. It almost seems like the later stages of previous games is what we’re starting with here and going backwards.

I can’t say I agree or disagree, I’d say leave it as is, but add more features and provide more control for commanders. Allow them to develop more on their terms based off their guilds and their own interest and team style. If they want to run a zerg around and have their name out there then great, let them do that. If they want to roll with a certain momentum with their guild and friends first and branch out among the community with a bit more strength and control to stand on then that should be an option as well.

some good ideas here and personally i would like it to involve everything to do with WvW so making it about achievements is a good idea… gold is good as part of that or maybe even badges.

One thing I would like changed though is a sort of rating tool (+ and -) that way you can easily see at a glance who the good commanders are and who to avoid. Cap out the amount of commanders per map.. maybe something like 3-4 and have only the highest rating commander tags showing up. Hell even have an offline commenting system for commanders

Hearing all this makes me glad I’m on Maguuma. There are some really great commanders on there, and even when they are on a break other new people will join in and try their best from what they have learned before. I would like to keep doing WvW and practicing and maybe I can help out when the other people are asleep.

That said, a lot of these people don’t have blue badges, and a lot of people with the badges don’t command anything and just run around randomly. So, if you get the server community organized the blue badge doesn’t really mean so much. If the badge is the only thing people have to go on, it seems that could be a problem though.

I tried out some other servers and was pretty surprised at the atmosphere I found. One had a commander running a karma train taking camps and some towers with a small-medium group (not great, but not the worst thing in the world really), but a ton of people who were just fighting outside spawn (which I do think is one of the absolutely least productive things you can do) trash talking him for sucking and being a horrible commander. While they line hopped at spawn. >_>

So I can feel for those commanders who are actually trying to learn or get their server motivated in WvW and their own server is sitting there trash talking them. That sucks =/

Similar to the post two above me , how about a system where 100g just buys you the basic blue pin, but doing achievements lets you level that up so you can obtain new pins and titles.
Commanders can gain achievements through
1) capturing points
2) amount of supplies used
3) how many siege laid down
4) having people + rep them
5) starting upgrades on camps/towers/keeps

This would ensure that leveled up commanders are well-rounded in respect to their knowledge of wvw

yertle.5837:

Verbal abuse isn’t acceptable from anyone; right click > report then ignore them if you would prefer not to listen to it.

a rep system would be pretty dumb IMO, though. Too easy to abuse.

Dumb? No it’s not. Easy to abuse? Why? It’s voluntary! Don’t want bad rep, don’t wear the badge, or better yet, be a good egg ALL THE TIME.

A good leader would get enough +rep to far outway any griefing, if it’s limited to one vote per account. A bad commander? Yeah, see that’s not abuse, that’s feedback.

Who’s going to abuse this system? Transfers? People who upvote their friends? Guilds forced to upvote their leader? Who? Rival guilds?

Okay, how’s this. Let me tag them with 1 to 5 stars that only I can see. How’s that? That way no one else is influenced by my opinion, but I still have a quick way to see who’s on map that I want to follow without a mouse over. How about that? Or is that a ‘dumb’ idea too?

I want one to organise my guilds wvw events. I’d be happy if there was one only the guild could see that still let me create squads

This is not an issue.

People learn very quickly who to follow and who not to follow. Anyone who spends 100g and does not learn to work with others has wasted 100g of their guild’s money. Have a nice time in your 5man group with a “Come Kill Me” tag.

I’d like to see the title require the following
100g
and each month/week the commander must be active for X hours, defend X keeps/camps/castles, take X keeps/camps/castles and have X kills.

If they don’t have a prerequisite filled their commander title is disabled until they meet the requirements for the month/week.

Anet gets their money and we get competent commanders.

I thought there was an option for the commander just to show his badge to his guild? or am i wrong here?

On another note, the one thing I have noticed is the amount of kittening that goes on about commanders not leading. From experience, some commanders lead their own guilds, not the map as a whole. I don’t see an issue with that, thought it is helpful when the commanders co-ordinate with each other too

if you join a commanders squad you don’t see other pins.

Xsadia.9673:

I thought there was an option for the commander just to show his badge to his guild? or am i wrong here?

On another note, the one thing I have noticed is the amount of kittening that goes on about commanders not leading. From experience, some commanders lead their own guilds, not the map as a whole. I don’t see an issue with that, thought it is helpful when the commanders co-ordinate with each other too

The problem is there is no raid group support so people get commander so their guild can anchor / group around you on the map as well as have allies be able to see your groups location.

Hell, you can’t even see your own guildies on the map if you are not grouped with them. “Play the game not the UI” my kitten

With so many commanders popping up nowadays, it would be great to be able to colour code their markers for personal use, or something of the like. There are several commanders that are competent on my server, there are also many incompetent ones. I don’t know about you guys, but I don’t want to have to remember all kinds of different names and try to remember which ones were the bad ones and which ones were the decent ones… and this is only going to get worse when more and more people have access to the commander status.

As for a alternate method of “paying” for commander status, I always thought that adding 1000 badges to the gold cost, and an upkeep payable in badges per month/week to keep it active would have been a good idea.

How about they make thee commander book obtainable for 1000 badges of honor makes no sense to pve to get a pvp item this was a horrible idea and needs to be fixed if someone has 1000 badges they atleast know a thing or two about wvw

I would like to see like a gold pin that’s badges bought for example so you can have some differentiation.

Blue pin = PvE or WvW PUG zerg herders (100g)
Silver Pin = WvW only Commanders (300 Badges)
Gold = WvW Map commander (600 badges + guild influence level)

1. get rid of commander
2. add raids of 25 people
3. FUN.

commander is useless and annoying.

I would prefer it stay the same purchasing price. I would like the icon to change colour as the commander obtains a mix of more kills/capture objectives/defend objectives.

vespers.1759:

1. get rid of commander
2. add raids of 25 people
3. FUN.

commander is useless and annoying.

yeah I don’t want to go back to xx# man raids in this situation
Need the ability to use PUGs not just guilds and closed raids would be just that IMO. Would trade sense of WvW Community for Elitism

Arani.9057:

vespers.1759:

1. get rid of commander
2. add raids of 25 people
3. FUN.

commander is useless and annoying.

yeah I don’t want to go back to xx# man raids in this situation
Need the ability to use PUGs not just guilds and closed raids would be just that IMO. Would trade sense of WvW Community for Elitism

why wouldn’t you be able to PuG a raid? you just invite people to the raid. you can see the raid players on the map, which in itself would eliminate the most important thing a commander has (the blue icon). i picked 25 man because that’s a big number that would work with zerg sizes but really it can be anything so long as it’s over 5 people… it’s about getting people together in a group.

in my experience there’s zero community in wvwvw now. when i’m in a zerg nobody talks… they just flood around. being in a raid would foster a sense of community i think. as it is now you can’t see what anyone has on them for conditions, boons health etc.. and can’t support them very effectively because of it.

having a raid would get people grouping and talking to each other more than it does now. just like the “anyone can hit a mob once and get credit” is kind of killing random teamplay encouters in PVE.

thats what a squad is…

you can talk in squad anyone can join the squad
the squad commander can see how many supplies his squad is currently caryring etc… that is already there. Turning that into a standard only 15-20 people can join a raid group would make guilds pick guildies only and leave the PUGS to fend for themselves with no organized leadership, where as now anyone can just pick the commander they want to follow and join their squad.

The beauty of diversity within a team…is that we bring different STRENGTHS to the battlefield. If you don’t have a commander tag, YOUR job is to help the commander that does… it’s that simple. The best leaders are the best followers. The best commanders come from the ranks of followers.

“A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves.” – Lao Tzu

Leadership is not easily defined. Leadership is not easily measured.

Tens of thousands of books and over a million articles have been written on the subject. Over the course of 3000 years, very wise and experienced people have put their stamp on leadership. Leadership is a discipline that is taught around the world in colleges, business schools and in every military.

While this is a game — and fun — some of you are really going off the deep end, getting all “growed up” and applying (high stakes) adullt standards to a (low stakes) sport. This can be very helpful if kept in a coaching, mentoring, or uplifting context. Let’s try to keep in mind, we have people from all walks of life, ages, cultures, and backgrounds.

Understanding how YOU can be a leader without a title while following is the power behind the commanders on the field. Knowing how to “influence” your commanders is the true art of war!

I believe that (at best) leadership is a polymorphic quality that maximizes the potential of others… and you don’t need a tag or a title to be a leader (or commander).

500 Badges of Honor to buy Commander title. That way you at least have to have spent a good amount of time in WvW and should have a clue whats going on.

I just try to ignore all commanders until they have proven they are at least semi competent, YES this means I ignore 99% of all commanders forever but hey a-net wont listen and continues on with the pve commanders and credit card commanders.

Oh also 500 badges is way too cheap, I can get that in 2 days.

Fiction.6418:

Oh also 500 badges is way too cheap, I can get that in 2 days.

prooooove it

Make it more then but the jist of it is it should be the currency you get from WvW not PvE

Also you can buy the commander title with gems = more $$ for ANet. Thats the only logical reason as to why the title is bought with gold.

Just make the Commander title an end tier Art of War upgrade.

Wouldn’t it make sense that it cost influence and time?

Kralous.7563:

Just make the Commander title an end tier Art of War upgrade.

Wouldn’t it make sense that it cost influence and time?

This idea is better than gold, but at the same time big guild more influence. This also does not mean the players know what they are doing. I also just think its humorous the only players in this game I have put on ignore so far are commanders.

Arani.9057:

Turning that into a standard only 15-20 people can join a raid group would make guilds pick guildies only and leave the PUGS to fend for themselves with no organized leadership,

i don’t think this is a valid argument. that’s already happeneing now anyway so i really fail to see what the difference would be other than that with raids you’d have a greater chance to get into a group because of bigger group size.

Xanex.1397:

Also you can buy the commander title with gems = more $$ for ANet. Thats the only logical reason as to why the title is bought with gold.

No, it isn’t. Gold is basically the only resource currently in game that can be pooled as a guild (influence is virtually worthless for large guilds the way it is currently implemented)