Guild Wars 2

roostapro.9827:

Engineer and Grenades…..oh wait
You can never find an engineer anymore, they are myths.

Granted my WvWvW experience isn’t that big, only 1k+ enemy invader kills, but engineer really seems the rarest profession. Last night I saw two enemy engineers and I was like “Whoa!? What has happened?”. Among the 1000+ enemies I have encountered, I have seen 4 engineers in total. That makes engineers less than 1% of total population. Pity I killed both of those enemy engineers really fast. One of them was using Elixir S, just like I often do, little did it help. It seems most people really don’t know how to play against the engineers or how to play engineers. I am often running a build with 4 different snares, which can be really annoying to the enemy. I am generally not in any team. I just roam & kill, cap small points or attack keeps / towers. I think any profession could do that. Many people say that e.g. ranger and necromancer are weak professions, but I am sure both of them would make great solo roamers. Just play what you like playing. Skill matters more than profession. And sadly numbers and coverage matter more than skill.

I am still playing engineer as my main in WvWvW and I get pretty solid 1:15 kill rate, despite our side (Blacktide) has been hugely outnumbered in past weeks. As anybody knows it is more difficult to score kills if there is 20-40 enemy zerg against just 3 of you. Not to mention culling issues combined with lag. Big enemy teams suddenly popping just few feet of your character (it could be a portal / mass invisibility bomb or culling). You might able to down an enemy if you are fast, but the enemy zerg can quickly revive their own. Still I think there is one big disadvange in those big zerg: if you are always with a huge zerg, you don’t necessarily learn how to play. Now the deck is getting shuffled as many of the top WvWvW moved to lower tiers at least here in EU.

I finally got bored of not even seeing any commander on our side. Winning is really difficult if there is total lack of numbers, coverage and leadership. Blacktide, once mighty in WvWvW, has sadly deteriorated into a pve dungeon farming server at the moment, so I today switched to a new server.

I wish to see many fair, evenly matched, honorable fights!

Deniara / Ayna

Yea engies are rare in WvW and PvE together. But to OP, mesmers and Thieves, D/D eles are the best WvW professions.

Kelthos Doombringer.9032:

Saweth You Him.9047:

Mesmer, Guardian, or Necromancer.

Necromancer staff owns. Their abilities own. Espically the ones that remove boons off the enemy teams hero. They don’t really have a spike but they can set one up with spectral grasp. Or they can fill space with minions.

What is this. I. do not even.

Necromancer staff doesn’t have an ability that removes boons from enemies. The one you’re referring to is Putrid Mark and it transfers conditions from allies to enemies. On a 20 seconds CD and seems to be quite inconsistent.

Spectral Grasp pulls and chill 1 target on a 30 second CD. Minions have a terrible AI and should never be used.

Necromancer is probably the weakest profession in WvW at the moment.. Hopefully we get some buffs.

OT: I’d say Guardians are the strongest at the moment. A lot of build diversity, huge amount of support, can also be very bursty if built correctly.

True, I rarely bump into necro’s anymore they are extremely unpopular, and also @Saweth, mesmers have 10 second quickness AoE elite skill, not 5s. What sucks is they have no permo speed signet but others do…

My Roaming Ranger 1vX noobstomping Vid =D (see signature)

Any class is what you make it, theory crafters will always find ways to win even when going against the grain….

Pick Class
Exploit Strengths
Cover Weaknesses
Gear Up
Profit…

call me crazy but for me most fun is necro

but overall strongest class for wvw is mesmer with ele and thief behind him and then all other.
mesmer can provide the most in group fights (portal, invisibility, quickness etc. list go on)

You have to take a number of things into consideration first.

=> how much time will I spend gearing up? Will I use all the food and buffs available, all the time? etc.

Some want to just jump into WvW and also not worry about the ‘extras’. If that is you, don’t consider a solo class/build. And choose something that is ranged, you let others tank as you dps. Use siege as often as possible. Of course, eventually you will get geared up but all the bells and whistles that make for an effective roamer aren’t everyone’s cup-o-tea to keep up 24/7. If you buy a lot of gold/gems, you can do it once you hit 80 but if you can’t, be prepared to PvE a bit first if you want to solo around or small grp fight on a regular basis.

=> all-around fighter or more specialized?
I think warriors are a great all-around character, you can roam, small grp fight and charge into zergs (as well as very good zerg support with banners and the horn). This only takes weapon and skill changing, rather than build/gear changes. The downside to warrior (IMO) is the lack of ‘neat/cool abilities’. Guardians are also very good all-around. Siege is a warrior’s friend at keep sieges. Mesmers, as mentioned before, are probably the best all-around class. But they are not for everyone.

=> The solo/small grp: these get mentioned a lot, as you can tell from previous posts. Players say these classes/builds are effective in keep fights or zerg fights but I consider them sub par, except the Mesmer. They only seem to do well because these players are typically decked out. But if you compared a bunker D/D Ele to a beserker Staff Ele in a big fight, you’d see that the staff Ele is putting out far great damage and much more CC.

=> Keep fights, open field zerg battles: obviously AOE damage or boons or heals help win these. Staff Ele, Necros (not certain on build), Guardians… That and siege. If you are low level or in a solo build, just use siege when you can, best way to level up while getting badges.

=> Classes with choices: Want to switch around and try different builds out? (note: this usually means different gear sets) Not all classes have interesting trait mixes and various differentiating weapon abilities. And I haven’t tried all the classes so can’t say for sure. Warriors don’t seem to have as many choices as a Necro or Elem.

=> Play style: melee classes take constant movement to stay on targets. I find it fun but also tiring after awhile. So I play two classes now and find I play my ranged class more and more because, frankly, it is tough to play melee in big fights.

I haven’t mentioned engineer because I haven’t tried one and hardly ever see one in WvW. The few that I have seem like a they do well but they are probably very good players that would shine if the had made a thief or whatever else.

I’m glad atm that people continually denounce the insane support, damage and survivability that a Necro can bring to your group. I spear head some formations and tank and drain with ds, then switch to plague (40k+hps) and proceed to blind everyone in my area for 20 f’ing seconds! Meanwhile while I get focused by those hammer wielding warriors and guardians (all the while blinded), my group kills all. I have played thief, warrior, guardian and necro competitively at lvl 80, and my necro outshines everything. Besides the minion AI crappyness, I hope anet continues to ignore this crazy class.

It really all comes down to what you like/want necro’s don’t really solo roam much that I see as in its not what they are looking for in the class.

D/D eles and thieves do some warriors also but its still depends on builds etc.

When its siege time a thief is ok but not better than other classes wvw has many different elements going on simultaneously its really hard to pick a best overall.

A d/d ele can be good at roaming then siege time put on a staff and wreck siege. It really depends though on class, what you like to do, what your facing and what the objective is really.

Personally I enjoy my greatsword ranger. I still use my shortbow a lot though, mostly to kill runners. Anyone who stands and fights me though gets a greatsword to the face. It’s very effective!

kuora.5402:

Nice link ME a video where an ele actually fights 8 level 80s at once and killing them all. I’ll bet my left nut that you can’t.

Cempa.5619:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzBn32Fqm9w

Can ANY Warrior build do this???

or THIS??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pfO5s9pi0c

this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijSwQDgfUyE

and then there’s this page
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlicGW?feature=watch
Or this
http://youtu.be/J7OYniHrGqE
Even this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B_UwEB9EtI

I mean, there’s an obvious HUGE disparity between the survivability, mobility and self sustainability in class options going on here that allows certain classes the ability to dive into these 1vGroup situations and lay down havoc while not only surviving the counter-attack but winning the situation.

• Winning doesn’t mean spiking EVERY player, but surviving the encounter with some kills and GETTING OUT OF DODGE SUCCESSFULLY in order to /laugh, /dance at the fate of that group getting face-smashed by one insane class.

How is going into a 1v8, killing the poor low level guy who takes like double the damage of everybody else and then running away winning exactly? If any of those people had bothered rezzing him, he never would have died. If any of those people had bothered to bring disables, Excala would been forced to run away in very short order (or have a very high chance of dying by staying around strong disable with cantrips on cooldown).

Basically, if this whole argument is that D/D is great at roaming and picking off idiots, then sure, I agree. They can engage when outnumbered if their enemies are bad or have zerg AoE based builds. If I had to name “the best” choice for this I would still pick thief though, simply because they can actually stomp downed players without the need for a major cooldown (Mistform as ele) and because it’s much much more difficult to force them to retreat.

I don’t see how being forced to run away is “winning” 1v8 though, and I certainly don’t see how they have a significant impact on WvW. If you want badges, aoe farm zergs. If you want to actually help your team win, bring portals or swirling winds. If anything, while solo roaming might be what someone enjoys the most, or what might be the most skill based, I’d say it probably has the lowest overall impact on the outcome of WvW. It’s all about how you want to look at it.

Thieves excel at skirmishing (small fights), they’re not really amazing during large sieges. I guess you can jump into a large ball with dagger storm up, but… meh. Thieves are roamers. They’re great at dueling and have good mobility, so moving around a borderland isn’t too terribly slow. AoE stealth can help your small group pull off some cool ganks/escapes. My favourite part of the thief personally is just being able to assassinate people in a couple seconds if they don’t feel like equipping a stun break.

I’d say play thief if you enjoy walking around by yourself or with a small group of friends (5 or so) and looking to have some cool duels/fights. A lot of people will complain that thieves are a no skill class, but those people tend to be the ones who can’t ever manage to kill one. If you’re looking for some more large scale or siege styled play, perhaps look into an elementalist or something.

Only thing is, thieves currently have a reasonable advantage due to the current culling issues, so that with their in and out of stealth spam it becomes quite hard to keep track of them. A lot of people think that they’re OP, but the reality is that the culling is making a much larger impact on thieves than they seem to realise.

Kelthos Doombringer.9032:

Saweth You Him.9047:

Mesmer, Guardian, or Necromancer.

Necromancer staff owns. Their abilities own. Espically the ones that remove boons off the enemy teams hero. They don’t really have a spike but they can set one up with spectral grasp. Or they can fill space with minions.

What is this. I. do not even.

Necromancer staff doesn’t have an ability that removes boons from enemies. The one you’re referring to is Putrid Mark and it transfers conditions from allies to enemies. On a 20 seconds CD and seems to be quite inconsistent.

Spectral Grasp pulls and chill 1 target on a 30 second CD. Minions have a terrible AI and should never be used.

Necromancer is probably the weakest profession in WvW at the moment.. Hopefully we get some buffs.

OT: I’d say Guardians are the strongest at the moment. A lot of build diversity, huge amount of support, can also be very bursty if built correctly.

I duno where this is coming from but hey i don’t mind a buff lol. My main is Necro and i’m op in group setting. Staff scepter dagger for the most part. There are just way too many bad necro players. Good when i get the buff half my guild will roll necro lol. I’ll give you a hint, stop using the lich form.

O ye and the most OP class is thief. Not the best for huge zergs besides their dagger storm but the ability to completely pick the fight and bail at will is the most op thing in the game atm in my opinion. I tend to think of them as mig 15s lol. Hey i fly higher=you can not engage me unless im willing. I can bail at any time pretty much because my climb rate and turning radius is superior.

Braxxus.2904:

kuora.5402:

Nice link ME a video where an ele actually fights 8 level 80s at once and killing them all. I’ll bet my left nut that you can’t.

Cempa.5619:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzBn32Fqm9w

Can ANY Warrior build do this???

or THIS??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pfO5s9pi0c

this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijSwQDgfUyE

and then there’s this page
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlicGW?feature=watch
Or this
http://youtu.be/J7OYniHrGqE
Even this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B_UwEB9EtI

I mean, there’s an obvious HUGE disparity between the survivability, mobility and self sustainability in class options going on here that allows certain classes the ability to dive into these 1vGroup situations and lay down havoc while not only surviving the counter-attack but winning the situation.

• Winning doesn’t mean spiking EVERY player, but surviving the encounter with some kills and GETTING OUT OF DODGE SUCCESSFULLY in order to /laugh, /dance at the fate of that group getting face-smashed by one insane class.

You linked dapheonx’s video, just as expected. She/he is one of the best WvW roaming elementalists I have ever seen. Trust me, I call myself an experienced ele, but 99% of D/D eles won’t be able to do that sort of thing.

Also. Do you really think those D/Ds roam around and win every single enounter they face? Flat out no. It takes around a week of footage to pick out the good fights you had and make a montage video like you linked. I saw a level 15 guardian roaming around in healing spec and killing level 80s 1v3. I know a friend in BG who dueled half the map in SoR and won every single on of them, coming out at full health every time. Then I know this other guildie who plays an engy, who melted said guardian in less than 5 seconds. See, there are good players here and there who can do crazy stuff, but that, in no way means that all D/Ds can do that.

Anecdotal at its best.

Kelthos Doombringer.9032:

Braxxus.2904:

Kelthos Doombringer.9032:

Necromancer is probably the weakest profession in WvW at the moment.. Hopefully we get some buffs.

What is this I don’t even….
Necro condi bombs cover the world in badge farming insanity. Necros are AMAZING in group combat. Flat out terrain denying, hp dropping nuclear bombs in wvw.

Well considering I was covering staff, and not the utilities (except for minions). Necromancer Epidemic is pure damage. No support. No control. We have no support other than our under-powered, huge cooldown wells.

There is no power build for Necro, there is no tanky build for Necro. We can provide extremely minor healing to our allies and we can only cure conditions with a 60 CD well with ticks 5 times and with an extremely buggy signet.

Not sure how you see 4 marks as being terrain denying and HP dropping nuclear bombs when all they do is 3 bleeds, a chill field and a potential area weakness, topped off with a 3/4 second fear..

Said like a condi necro that has never used any toughness, vitality, or weapon other than a scepter+ off hand dagger and staff. Nor would I expect that you’ve been in a group less than 5 people in your life in WvW : )

kuora.5402:

Braxxus.2904:

kuora.5402:

Nice link ME a video where an ele actually fights 8 level 80s at once and killing them all. I’ll bet my left nut that you can’t.

Cempa.5619:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzBn32Fqm9w

Can ANY Warrior build do this???

or THIS??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pfO5s9pi0c

this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijSwQDgfUyE

and then there’s this page
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlicGW?feature=watch
Or this
http://youtu.be/J7OYniHrGqE
Even this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B_UwEB9EtI

I mean, there’s an obvious HUGE disparity between the survivability, mobility and self sustainability in class options going on here that allows certain classes the ability to dive into these 1vGroup situations and lay down havoc while not only surviving the counter-attack but winning the situation.

• Winning doesn’t mean spiking EVERY player, but surviving the encounter with some kills and GETTING OUT OF DODGE SUCCESSFULLY in order to /laugh, /dance at the fate of that group getting face-smashed by one insane class.

You linked dapheonx’s video, just as expected. She/he is one of the best WvW roaming elementalists I have ever seen. Trust me, I call myself an experienced ele, but 99% of D/D eles won’t be able to do that sort of thing.

Also. Do you really think those D/Ds roam around and win every single enounter they face? Flat out no. It takes around a week of footage to pick out the good fights you had and make a montage video like you linked. I saw a level 15 guardian roaming around in healing spec and killing level 80s 1v3. I know a friend in BG who dueled half the map in SoR and won every single on of them, coming out at full health every time. Then I know this other guildie who plays an engy, who melted said guardian in less than 5 seconds. See, there are good players here and there who can do crazy stuff, but that, in no way means that all D/Ds can do that.

Anecdotal at its best.

I’ll add to this that your skills would wastly change to be most effective in given scenario as well. So if i get cought of guard in 1 vs 1 but i have big group setup it’s bad news for me.

kuora.5402:

You linked dapheonx’s video, just as expected.

And you’re being a hand waving apologist instead of recognizing the disparity in class capabilities, just as expected.

This has nothing to do with who is skilled, and who is not. It has everything to do with class capability/potential. Nothing more, nothing less.

Morthis.3968:

while solo roaming might be what someone enjoys the most, or what might be the most skill based,

Yes it is, for sure.

I have an 80 Guardian and they are quite versatile and tough. Oddly, perhaps, I enjoy playing my Ranger more in WvW as I level her. I’ve done at least 60% of her 65 levels in WvW in fact. I think Rangers can be very useful indeed, as long as we keep good situational awareness. We can help kill siege, as mentioned, and help support pushes and defense. I actually get a lot of kills on my Ranger. One should not advance too far forward as a Ranger, that’s for sure. And we do always have to watch out for that pesky thief sneaking up on us…they love to focus target us lol. If we can’t get away from a Warrior that catches us fast enough, It’s often a spike to the head relatively quickly. Yet I still love playing my Ranger.

Having said that I also enjoy playing my Necro a lot, they are very useful and fun to play. I recently started a Mesmer and I am really having a lot of fun playing her, so many great skills.

So as to which I think is the strongest, although I tend to agree that whatever you enjoy playing and know best is the strongest, if pushed to choose top 5 I would say;

1. Gaurdian
2. Mesmer
3. Ele
4. Necro
5. Warrior.

Guardians and warriors because melee train is most efficient way to win.

Very, very interesting I would say.

Braxxus.2904:

kuora.5402:

You linked dapheonx’s video, just as expected.

And you’re being a hand waving apologist instead of recognizing the disparity in class capabilities, just as expected.

This has nothing to do with who is skilled, and who is not. It has everything to do with class capability/potential. Nothing more, nothing less.

Morthis.3968:

while solo roaming might be what someone enjoys the most, or what might be the most skill based,

Yes it is, for sure.

It has everything to do with who is skilled and who is not. Bad D/D eles will melt in seconds to glass cannon thieves or rifle engineers. Good ones will run rampage everywhere, and to be honest, anything experienced with a profession will rampage the fields with any profession, whether he/she is a D/D ele, thief, engineer or staff ele.

I see bunker D/D eles in WvW as much as glass cannon thieves nowadays, but most are incapable of doing what you have linked to me, which is all I am saying.

Staff eles are extremely OP as well, so is the engineer and the thief in this video, right?

kuora.5402:

It has everything to do with who is skilled and who is not.

No, you’re still missing the point.

There are classes which have the tools necessary for a skilled player to accomplish these feats. EG- Thief, Ele for instance.

There are classes which do not have the tools necessary for a skilled player to accomplish these feats because the limitations of the class prevent them from having the sustainability to do so. EG-Warrior for instance.

Yes it takes a skilled player to accomplish these feats, but it ALSO takes a class which has the proper tools at said players disposal to function in this manner.

Dariroch.6482:

Kelthos Doombringer.9032:

Braxxus.2904:

Kelthos Doombringer.9032:

Necromancer is probably the weakest profession in WvW at the moment.. Hopefully we get some buffs.

What is this I don’t even….
Necro condi bombs cover the world in badge farming insanity. Necros are AMAZING in group combat. Flat out terrain denying, hp dropping nuclear bombs in wvw.

Well considering I was covering staff, and not the utilities (except for minions). Necromancer Epidemic is pure damage. No support. No control. We have no support other than our under-powered, huge cooldown wells.

There is no power build for Necro, there is no tanky build for Necro. We can provide extremely minor healing to our allies and we can only cure conditions with a 60 CD well with ticks 5 times and with an extremely buggy signet.

Not sure how you see 4 marks as being terrain denying and HP dropping nuclear bombs when all they do is 3 bleeds, a chill field and a potential area weakness, topped off with a 3/4 second fear..

Said like a condi necro that has never used any toughness, vitality, or weapon other than a scepter+ off hand dagger and staff. Nor would I expect that you’ve been in a group less than 5 people in your life in WvW : )

Let me say to all of this, I have a necro that uses a staff and scepter, sometimes Axe, and either a warhorn offhand or dagger offhand, I do not like using minions altho if you want more toughness you can get +20 toughness per minion. My necro is strictly conditional damage. I don’t give a rat’s … about critical damage cuz I’m not being physical with my offense. But when I lay out marks at the speed I do, it takes down players that don’t exactly have their attributes set up to counter the conditional damage produced. I have put down almost a whole zerg (with help of team) with just marks. Solo it would cause a lot of damage to an individual and if that individual is inexperienced than will prob die, but experienced players will be able to survive it. But that’s a solo encounter, if I’m with a group, you will die. And that is exactly how Anet set the caster professions up as. Group damage. Casters were not meant to be solo so don’t be surprised if the d/d ele gets nerfed. If I wasn’t with a group, I would prob die from an experienced player, but at the same time if I were with a group and we were confronted by another group that group will die from my conditional damage added to the physical damage from rest of group. If I wasn’t in the group then there is no certainty of winning. If my necro is in a group I can guarantee victory 8 out of 10 encounters.

fishergrip.4082:

There is no “strongest class” because each is strong at different things.

Strongest aoe? Ele

As the owner of an Ele and Necro, I’d lean toward necro as the stronger AOE due to epidemic + stacked wells + marks, whereas Ele is better at AOE control/support IMO.

Don’t underestimate Thief shortbow clusterbomb spam + AOE poison + AOE weakness + dagger storm either.

Thrumdi.9216:

Kelthos Doombringer.9032:

Braxxus.2904:

Kelthos Doombringer.9032:

Necromancer is probably the weakest profession in WvW at the moment.. Hopefully we get some buffs.

What is this I don’t even….
Necro condi bombs cover the world in badge farming insanity. Necros are AMAZING in group combat. Flat out terrain denying, hp dropping nuclear bombs in wvw.

Well considering I was covering staff, and not the utilities (except for minions). Necromancer Epidemic is pure damage. No support. No control. We have no support other than our under-powered, huge cooldown wells.

There is no power build for Necro, there is no tanky build for Necro. We can provide extremely minor healing to our allies and we can only cure conditions with a 60 CD well with ticks 5 times and with an extremely buggy signet.

Not sure how you see 4 marks as being terrain denying and HP dropping nuclear bombs when all they do is 3 bleeds, a chill field and a potential area weakness, topped off with a 3/4 second fear..

I don’t even play Necro, but isn’t there a signet that continually transfers conditions from allies to you? Then obviously you send those conditions to the enemy with the off-hand dagger or other signet.

I mean, that’s what I get from reading the class specs.

There is… in theory. Of course since release all it actually does is copy those conditions to the necro thus giving people effectively free condition damage. You would probably see more necromancers if that actually worked.

TheAngryLlama.7641:

Thrumdi.9216:

Kelthos Doombringer.9032:

Braxxus.2904:

Kelthos Doombringer.9032:

Necromancer is probably the weakest profession in WvW at the moment.. Hopefully we get some buffs.

What is this I don’t even….
Necro condi bombs cover the world in badge farming insanity. Necros are AMAZING in group combat. Flat out terrain denying, hp dropping nuclear bombs in wvw.

Well considering I was covering staff, and not the utilities (except for minions). Necromancer Epidemic is pure damage. No support. No control. We have no support other than our under-powered, huge cooldown wells.

There is no power build for Necro, there is no tanky build for Necro. We can provide extremely minor healing to our allies and we can only cure conditions with a 60 CD well with ticks 5 times and with an extremely buggy signet.

Not sure how you see 4 marks as being terrain denying and HP dropping nuclear bombs when all they do is 3 bleeds, a chill field and a potential area weakness, topped off with a 3/4 second fear..

I don’t even play Necro, but isn’t there a signet that continually transfers conditions from allies to you? Then obviously you send those conditions to the enemy with the off-hand dagger or other signet.

I mean, that’s what I get from reading the class specs.

There is… in theory. Of course since release all it actually does is copy those conditions to the necro thus giving people effectively free condition damage. You would probably see more necromancers if that actually worked.

From experience I have seen that using epidemic doesn’t really work worth a crap. I’ve used the sig to transfer cond. and used epidemic and if it does show the black plume thing it doesn’t really do any damage at all. I tried the one to turn boons into conditions and then transfer cond and then epidemic and nothing. Now I just use the one for speed and the transfer in case cond get stacked on me. I rely on marks mainly for the damage and the elite form grenth? I can’t remember the names. I just figured epidemic was bugged. The biggest problem is the casting time of epidemic. You can throw all cond to enemy but by the time you get epidemic off they’ve healed the cond or the cond have gone down so much that it might spread 2 sec of bleeding to 3 other enemy. It’s really a waste of utility slot.

Nocturnal Lunacy.8563:

From experience I have seen that using epidemic doesn’t really work worth a crap.

Epidemic is probably the strongest single ability in the game. You should really work on using it, because the damage output combined with the cooldown almost defines the profession in terms of WvW roles. Multiple necros using epidemic in a zerg vs zerg are putting out bananas damage.

Another bonus is necros being able to solo buffed camp supervisors in seconds because of Epidemic.

Braxxus.2904:

D/D Ele
or
Thief

@Kuora
Please link these videos from other classes (especially a guard or warrior) where they are going 1v5-8 and winning like you see on thieves/eles.

^ totally this. the healing and mobility on a D/D Ele is crazy good. and the damage + stealth issues on a thief is also amazing. The rest of the classes fall well below these two.

Even though the thief class is a no brainer, I’m impressed with the person who created the D/D Ele build. That was well done to see the potential of that class.

My personal favorite

D/D ele 1v5-8 video

since posting videos seems to be the trend in this thread

I’ve put out multiple videos, see my Sig of my Ranger killing people in 1v1 and 1v2, Anything past that becomes difficult unless the people are just awful.

The best i’ve done is a 1v5 against a group on my Thief…..but I have to say they were quite possibly the worst players i’ve seen in an MMO to date…like worse then the Dumba Stealth Zergs on Merlin in DAOC..

Just awful…

But most classes won’t be able to do anything like a D/D ele, because D/D have pretty much the total package in regards to the class, They really don’t have much of a weakness….

That doesn’t mean other classes are just awful though, it just means that at present D/D Ele’s are a little overtuned compared to the other classes.

Braxxus.2904:

kuora.5402:

It has everything to do with who is skilled and who is not.

No, you’re still missing the point.

There are classes which have the tools necessary for a skilled player to accomplish these feats. EG- Thief, Ele for instance.

There are classes which do not have the tools necessary for a skilled player to accomplish these feats because the limitations of the class prevent them from having the sustainability to do so. EG-Warrior for instance.

Yes it takes a skilled player to accomplish these feats, but it ALSO takes a class which has the proper tools at said players disposal to function in this manner.

You keep quoting on warrior and its self-sustainability. Strangely enough, when I’m running organised WvW raids with my guild, bunker ele, shout warrior and bunker guardians are the favourite front line choices. Warriors are also more forgiving than eles, which means they can take a few hits and not screw up, while as a D/D ele, one wrong attunement you will be spiked down in a few seconds in the front line. Same thing with guardians.

I believe every profession has the ‘tools’ to survive 1vmany battles. Unlike what you think, warriors built correctly on a skilled hand can take on a few players at once. Melee rangers can. Guardians can easily do it. Engineers are a bit tricky but still can do it. Any decent mesmers can handle it.

The reason why you see so many ‘i-pwn-wvw’ D/D ele videos is because they’re really fun to play with attunement switching, flashy skills and rapid movement.

So yeah, it really is about player skill.

kuora.5402:

when I’m running organised WvW raids with my guild, bunker ele, shout warrior and bunker guardians are the favourite front line choices.

This is not the same thing as (and I highlighted the important parts)

1vmany battles.

This.

kuora.5402:

The reason why you see so many ‘i-pwn-wvw’ D/D ele videos is because they’re really fun to play with attunement switching, flashy skills and rapid movement.

Or because they are capable of this. Believe me, if warriors were capable of the same feats we’d have plenty of videos showcasing it.

I know you love your ele, hell I love MY ele and the 1vGroup capabilities highlighted in the videos are one of the main reasons I rolled one. Same with thief. The same potential is NOT present on the warrior so I am going to believe that you’re just in denial, or defensive as if we’re asking for ele nerfs. I know some people are, I’m not however. I am simply stating the truth, backed by video evidence in abundance about the capabilities between certain classes as it concerns the OPs question.

If you really think you can pull of the same feats on a warrior then I would like to challenge you, or any of your pro warriors to do so and provide the community the videos of it so we can all learn what everyone is doing wrong. To have the same potential a warrior will need the regen of a full regen build, the control of a hammer build, the movement of a GS+Sword/Warhorn build, the condi removal of a shout+soldier rune+traited warhorn+signet of stamina+runes of lyssa build and the aoe of a longbow.

If you figure out how to squeeze all that into one build then yes the warrior will have the same tools necessary to provide the same performance seen in the videos above.

Then with a necro please.
Then Ranger.
Maybe guardian as well since the only vids I see for them are 1v1’s or frontlining in a zerg.

Braxxus.2904:

kuora.5402:

when I’m running organised WvW raids with my guild, bunker ele, shout warrior and bunker guardians are the favourite front line choices.

This is not the same thing as (and I highlighted the important parts)

1vmany battles.

This.

kuora.5402:

The reason why you see so many ‘i-pwn-wvw’ D/D ele videos is because they’re really fun to play with attunement switching, flashy skills and rapid movement.

Or because they are capable of this. Believe me, if warriors were capable of the same feats we’d have plenty of videos showcasing it.

I know you love your ele, hell I love MY ele and the 1vGroup capabilities highlighted in the videos are one of the main reasons I rolled one. Same with thief. The same potential is NOT present on the warrior so I am going to believe that you’re just in denial, or defensive as if we’re asking for ele nerfs. I know some people are, I’m not however. I am simply stating the truth, backed by video evidence in abundance about the capabilities between certain classes as it concerns the OPs question.

If you really think you can pull of the same feats on a warrior then I would like to challenge you, or any of your pro warriors to do so and provide the community the videos of it so we can all learn what everyone is doing wrong. To have the same potential a warrior will need the regen of a full regen build, the control of a hammer build, the movement of a GS+Sword/Warhorn build, the condi removal of a shout+soldier rune+traited warhorn+signet of stamina+runes of lyssa build and the aoe of a longbow.

If you figure out how to squeeze all that into one build then yes the warrior will have the same tools necessary to provide the same performance seen in the videos above.

Then with a necro please.
Then Ranger.
Maybe guardian as well since the only vids I see for them are 1v1’s or frontlining in a zerg.

You’re simply saying that regardless of player skill or experience, D/D eles can roflpwn people, which is in fact not true. All I’m pointing out is that regardless profession or build, it is the player’s skill that actually matters when you’re facing multiple opponents. Believe me I roam all the time in WvW and I face many, many D/D eles who watched videos on youtube and think they can stomp people easily. Obviously enough, it is them that gets their face smashed by my S/D ele or my condition necro if I happen to be on it. Then sometimes I face extremely skilled D/D eles that I have no chance dealing with, even when I have 3 allies with me. Same thing would happen to be with a very good perma stealth thief or a guardian.

Some professions do excel at some parts that others lack on, but class balance is very stable at the moment and whenever a very skilled player uploads a youtube video killing 5 people, forums start crying about it and Anet goes in for the knee-jerk balancing.

Anet themselves said that Eles are the ‘king of versatility’. So it is intended that eles can do little bit of this and little bit of that. Good players use this well and put out amazing skill, while others cannot.

It’s the player, not the profession.

Elementalist.
They can do great in both zergs and as solo roamers.

kuora.5402:

You’re simply saying that regardless of player skill or experience, D/D eles can roflpwn people, which is in fact not true.

No, that’s actually NOT what I’m saying at all.
Ugh.
I’m saying that the POTENTIAL to do this is present on the ele moreso than other classes have. And on thieves too for that matter, more than other class mechanics allow. How you got what your statement implies is mind boggling.

kuora.5402:

Some professions do excel at some parts that others lack on
snip
killing 5 people
snip
Eles are the ‘king of versatility’.
snip
So it is intended that eles can do little bit of this and little bit of that.
snip
It’s the player, not the profession.

Right. So besides the contradicting yourself because you support the idea that eles somehow deserve to have this elevated capability above other classes, I repeat. If it’s the player, and all classes can perform these same feats, then please gather up the pros to show us the warriors, rangers, guards, necros pulling off the excala and thief video 1vZerg situations.

I mean, you want people to stop being horrible at this game right, because we all must be on other professions for not having the 1vGroup videos flooding our parts of youtube and the forums like our god skilled ele/thief overlords do right?

Yeah, that last bit was snarky because the defense always comes out to be “Well ele/thief players are just amazing gamers and other classes are played by lethargic amoebas and that’s why they don’t have these vids”.

Braxxus.2904:

kuora.5402:

You’re simply saying that regardless of player skill or experience, D/D eles can roflpwn people, which is in fact not true.

No, that’s actually NOT what I’m saying at all.
Ugh.
I’m saying that the POTENTIAL to do this is present on the ele moreso than other classes have. And on thieves too for that matter, more than other class mechanics allow. How you got what your statement implies is mind boggling.

kuora.5402:

Some professions do excel at some parts that others lack on
snip
killing 5 people
snip
Eles are the ‘king of versatility’.
snip
So it is intended that eles can do little bit of this and little bit of that.
snip
It’s the player, not the profession.

Right. So besides the contradicting yourself because you support the idea that eles somehow deserve to have this elevated capability above other classes, I repeat. If it’s the player, and all classes can perform these same feats, then please gather up the pros to show us the warriors, rangers, guards, necros pulling off the excala and thief video 1vZerg situations.

I mean, you want people to stop being horrible at this game right, because we all must be on other professions for not having the 1vGroup videos flooding our parts of youtube and the forums like our god skilled ele/thief overlords do right?

Yeah, that last bit was snarky because the defense always comes out to be “Well ele/thief players are just amazing gamers and other classes are played by lethargic amoebas and that’s why they don’t have these vids”.

Elementalists don’t have ‘elevated capability’. They perform average on all parts of the game (DPS, conditions, Mobility, CC). They actually don’t excel in one particular aspect. That is what the profession is about. Thieves are the best for burst damage. Rangers are the best ranged DPS, and point holding. Guardians are outright the best bunkers. Warriors are mobile, have high melee DPS and high armour and HP. Necromancers spread and apply conditions like crazy. Engineers are one of the best, if not best profession for sieges. Mesmer’s utilities are the best for WvW. See, before this bunker ele build came out, elementalists were usually free kills for anyone. Now that someone came up with a build that is very tanky with high healing, elementalists are not what it used to be, and because they are unkillable when you try to instagib them like before, no counter-builds were made popular (although many are known for tPvP players).

Elementalists are good, yes, but so are many other professions. Obvious attacks and their most damaging spells being cast for a very long time are their downfalls. Immobilise also screws them up. How is it hard to see their weaknesses?

Engineers of course…

Mesmers for their portals and elems for their aoe.

d/d Ele.

WvW is build around several professions working together.

But d/d Ele is, simply put, the most allround profession. Its tough enough to fight zerg on zerg, even get into enemy zerg and put some hurt.
At the same time it has strong group support with wide range of boons and healing. Its a great profession to use for scouting, supplycapping, and contesting stuff. Because just like the Thief its mobile, good at a skirmish and can escape kitten near any heated situation.

Switch to a staff and you still got great wall suppression, switch to a scepter and you can hit those annoying arrowcarts hiding at the back of a wall. Switch to a focus and you can protect your walls/siege from enemy siege with Swirling Winds. And you can either go Staff and rain death on attackers or simply walk out as d/d, kitten stuff up, and run back inside.

Simply put, a d/d Ele basicly has a place in all the basic tasks and he does it very well. There are certain things an Ele doesnt do, that are still important. So it is by no means a case of “stack d/d ele and win”, such a zerg would always lose to a zerg which is more wellrounded.

Thread could be outdated as soon as tomorrow.

the most i like from those vids are:

D/D ele summoning earth elemental having all opponent focus on it

D/D ele facing 6 players:
-4 staff eles spamming JUST air 1 (no other skill…..)
-1 warrior with 111111111
-another OP D/D ele that is not OP because D/D ele is so OP it can kill 6 D/D eles…..

I would like to focus attention on a thing…
Many players with older PC plays WWW to get achievements.
Many players that don t like WWW plays it for the achievement
Many players underequipped and low lvl, plays www.
Many casual players plays WWW

So you have to watch vids looking at what happens on the screen…..you would easily spot what is right and what is not.

P.S. i agree then when people will not be forced to attend www for monthly/map completion SOME things will change….

Definitely for either small or big groups the Mesmer provides an incredible skill set.

But equally all classes play an important role. The larger the scale the less detrimental individual classes are to outcomes. But equally the larger the group, the more effective I think Guardians become (even though they are great for all groups)

lcc.9374:

My personal favorite

D/D ele 1v5-8 video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba8u9PBcdmo

since posting videos seems to be the trend in this thread

Wrong vid? This is not 1v5-8. Its 2 premades vs 10 mostly upleveled noobs + they use a mesmer portal to rezz themselves up. Great action though.

The powerfullst class is the one with a good Player before the Screen. Every class has its pros and cons and just one cookie cutter version doenst helps cause every class has its counters.

Doomdesire.9365:

Thieves are great in solo roaming, but are probably one of the least effective classes in actual wvw warfare(zergs).

Don’t agree – thieves work great in and around enemy zergs – I often run in zergs and fight in large zerg battles effectively.

Leo Paul – lol yakslapping – I’ll be keeping that one for saturday night. Guardians I expect but hey what’s what really when it comes ton WvW – good teams make good performance I guess. Stop dissing those thieves mind you they have some nice tricks up their sleeves for team WvW and aren’t all just backstab wonders.

I’m loving my Conditionmancer at the moment – so much fun. Had a couple Heartseeker Thieves come after me, only to stealth and run away. I happened to see them coming back, so I planted a Well of Suffering and suddenly saw 3 “Downed Enemy Player” icons on minimap. Sent my Flesh Golem in to charge them, 3 shiny new bags of loot at my feet!

Surviviability is ridiculous – I was running through the front gate of a supply camp that was being raided and I came across 4 invaders on a hill, so I decided to try and kill them. Threw down some bleeds and an Epidemic, downed two, but then the other two got me after I put up one hell of a fight. I decided to not even fight while downed, and just before being defeated, had a Ranger show up and kill one of them, which rallied me. I stood up, bled the other one out, walked away smiling.

Elem by switching between weapon, can mostly do anything they wan in WvW.

- They are among the best roaming, they can solo group and if it gets ugly, they can just RTL away. Having AoE damage make really them efficient in those case.

- They are the only class that can be siege defender. With focus, they have an ability to block siege projectil.

- Switch to staff, and you can AoE the hell of people during siege.

- During fight, they have mobility, condition removal, healing, damage, conditions, CC.

In sPvP, Elem are very good, not sure if they are too good, but they are in a very good place.

But in WvW, they are fantastic. They also have a high skill cap, meaning that if you are good, you can be god like on this class. Also, they are really fun to play. I just can’t play it anymore because it’s a fotm class.

But yeah, Elem are, in my opinion, the most efficient class in WvW.

Oh, and people talking about versitality. I love the way Anet see it :

Engineer
The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

Ele
We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

Funny how Engineer has to pay a tax for being “highly versatil” while Elem doesn’t and they are the “king of versatility”.

It deosn’t mean anything, but I just think it’s funny.

Kardiamond.6952:

they can solo group and if it gets ugly, they can just RTL away. Having AoE damage make really them efficient in those case.

Let me correct this sentence for you:

They can solo confuse groups by throwing in some AOEs which deal mediocre damage and then RTL away. Having mediocre AoE damage make them feel efficient without actually threatening anyone.

teg.1340:

Kardiamond.6952:

they can solo group and if it gets ugly, they can just RTL away. Having AoE damage make really them efficient in those case.

Let me correct this sentence for you:

They can solo confuse groups by throwing in some AOEs which deal mediocre damage and then RTL away. Having mediocre AoE damage make them feel efficient without actually threatening anyone.

Say that to any good Elem, who can hit and run and get people one by one. Just ask Zooks, I know bad example since he is among the best player around.

And some hybrid build can dish a good amount of damage, especially on GC and with might stacking.