Guild Wars 2

Nope, they are all fine. Diminishing returns is the worst mechanic ever to hit an MMO. No one should be forced to have their skills work less then full strength simply another player just hit you with a similar skill.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Nope, they are all fine. Diminishing returns is the worst mechanic ever to hit an MMO. No one should be forced to have their skills work less then full strength simply another player just hit you with a similar skill.

You’ve never played other MMOs, have you? DR is put in place to avoid players cheesing not only PvP through CC spam, but also to avoid it happening in PvE, both to AND from monsters. It needs to be put here too, whether through giving players Defiant or something else.

So far CC is only viable in a PvP environment, its useless in every other setting. How many CC builds do you see in PvE?

It’s not like there isn’t anti-CC options given for players to use. It’s just most choose not to use them.

Other MMOs don’t have evade frames, high uptime stability or low cooldown stunbreakers.

There is a simple counter to Stuns: Stability/Stun Breakers

There is a simple counter to Immobilizations/chills/cripples: condi removal skills OR condi duration reduction food/armor stats.

If you are suffering from these effects simply adjust your gear/playing style/skills to compensate for these adversities.

ANET do not change a thing. This is the one part of WVW combat that you guys nailed since release!!!! Focus on giving WvWers more rewards and achievements for going to battle each and every day!

Bilbo, need I remind you that it only takes 3 players to CC somebody to death, and not everybody has a large amount of stun breakers or condi removal? Also I heard they’re nerfing condi duration reduction food/armor stats.

If that fact is true, than agreed. However My suggestion would be to use meladru Runes with Poultry and leek soup! Each person can use these and effectively reduce how often they get CC’ed by condis (Improved more with certain class traits). As far as Stuns go I believe every class has a skill that either grants stability or breaks stuns. As it stands now I’m personally satisfied where the game is at in relation to CC and condis. However come April 15th we will see if things change.

Seemore Bunz.7345:

If that fact is true, than agreed. However My suggestion would be to use meladru Runes with Poultry and leek soup! Each person can use these and effectively reduce how often they get CC’ed by condis (Improved more with certain class traits). As far as Stuns go I believe every class has a skill that either grants stability or breaks stuns. As it stands now I’m personally satisfied where the game is at in relation to CC and condis. However come April 15th we will see if things change.

Okay so by your theory, every single class should have to use melandru runes with poultry and leek soup to counter being immobilized to death? So all 8 classes that can have millions of possibilities of builds are forced to use melandru and certain foods just to counter a specific spammable condition in order to not die?

Yeah faith in this game is not restored at all…

i love being immobilized, hit my stun breaker, to be hit by yet another, clear that and clear a 3rd( by this time im all out of stun breakers, condition removeals ) to be hit by a 4th all in matter of seconds. its great fun being able to do jack sh…

a short immunity is needed after any Cc has faded/removed from player’s

Before we get thrown into this discussion I gotta know something. People are saying that they love getting CC’ed 5 or 6 times…. This would imply that you are fighting a group/zerg or a really annoying hammer/mace-shield warrior. If this problem is persistant in group fights you need more guardians for Stability. Plain and simple. Guardians are the key to ignoring CC and for supporting those who are affected by it. Now if we are talking about just fighting a certain class than I can understand. But for say zerg/group/havoc fights, Guardians are a must have. Just how the meta works.

And no I’m not implying people MUST run those runes/food. Just suggesting a way to combat the CC’s without the use of guardian stability or Group condi removal

as a guardian who’s speced for condi removal, Cc’s in this game are stupid, chained immobilize AWSOME!!!! remove 1 for another to replace it instantly in alot cases, joyo!

I agree with the need for diminishing returns. It would promote more skilled play.

I don’t think people mind the being zerged thing. At the end of the day, you get zerged you live with it. Chances are, especially in EB you weren’t able to use any skills even before the zerg hit you so being chain stunned is of no consequence to you in that scenario.

It is when two warriors with hammers are bouncing you around like a rag doll whilst their friend puts a ring on it (just in case you dodge one of the cc chains) and you actually cannot do anything about it that irritates people.

Let’s face it…we’re just talking about hammer warriors.

This game could use some DR idd. Yes we have dodge/stunbreakers etc but other pvp games have similar effects to that, hell even healers who could get rid of CC on other people, yet they had diminishing return, kinda kittened how people can throw all their CC on top of eachother for fullest duration. Games should provide fun and being locked in 1 place for 10seconds is anything but that.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Bilbo, need I remind you that it only takes 3 players to CC somebody to death, and not everybody has a large amount of stun breakers or condi removal? Also I heard they’re nerfing condi duration reduction food/armor stats.

You’re saying that you shouldn’t lose a 3v1?

PacoXI.7690:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Bilbo, need I remind you that it only takes 3 players to CC somebody to death, and not everybody has a large amount of stun breakers or condi removal? Also I heard they’re nerfing condi duration reduction food/armor stats.

You’re saying that you shouldn’t lose a 3v1?

He’s saying it shouldn’t be automatic with no ways to counter it.

3 hammer warriors v 1 isn’t really 3v1 anymore, anyways. More like PVE.

SOLUTION:
Five second immunity to stun after one stun ends, stunning doesn’t stack anymore.

Stark.1350:

As do immobilize and other crowd control affects. The end.

hard CC counter = stability
immobilize counter = condition duration reduction or condition removal.

most people run either +40% condition duration for condi classes or…..
-40% condition duration for non condi classes.
on top of that melandru or hoelbrak runes also provide condition duration reduction.

your point is mute and void I’m afraid.
it may not be DR perse but it gets the same job done.

now go buy some of that food and some of those runes.

some classes also have innate reduction for specific conditions or hard CC look them up.

msalakka.4653:

PacoXI.7690:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Bilbo, need I remind you that it only takes 3 players to CC somebody to death, and not everybody has a large amount of stun breakers or condi removal? Also I heard they’re nerfing condi duration reduction food/armor stats.

You’re saying that you shouldn’t lose a 3v1?

He’s saying it shouldn’t be automatic with no ways to counter it.

3 hammer warriors v 1 isn’t really 3v1 anymore, anyways. More like PVE.

you can counter it, use stability and run away. you’re not going to win a 1v3 against any class regardless if they have chain stun or immobs or not, assuming all are at the same skill level.

this whole thread is stupid. OP is falsely assigning blame to why he’s getting kitten on. you’re getting chain cc’ed not because chaining cc’s is inherently broken, but because either:

a. you are fighting out numbered
b. your group has a kitten comp that lacks stability and condi clears
c. you are a kitten player that can’t dodge hammer trains

in all cases, you have the power to affect change, don’t blame the system when it already gives you the tools you need.

My biggest issue is that the answer to this whole issue is run Melandru/Hoelbrak runes, trait into a certain line and eat Lemongrass food if you are not an ele, mesmer, thief, condition necro.

We will have to wait until after Tuesday but the roamers and small party guys are crying out for build diversity and Anet say that’s what they’re trying to give us it but I just can’t see any rune set providing an answer to the issues of soft/hard cc for Warrior/Guardian/Rangers other than the melandru/condition reduction foods.

Hopefully the rune reshuffle will put an end to the signet of spite/terror/boon corruption tirade of necromancers who just clean the clock of every solo roamer in the land by chilling and crippling, even people wearing melandru runes and condition reduction food and traits for 19s by using runes of the mad king, runes of lyssa and such for outrageous cc durations.

The thing that makes this annoying and very abused by some classes is the fact that immobilized and fear count as conditions and not a “stun or control effect” so you can’t break out of it.
Personally i facepalm’d at the very first time i seen this and often think “how on earth you design this like this..”
So abilities that are “stun breaks” don’t really help you and you need condition removal.

In my ideal world control effects don’t need to be in 2 groups like their are now.
This make the need for 2 versions of countering it in form of a abilities / utility skills.
So won’t be like some classes have best controlling effects and the best counters.
this “variety” so far seemed very lacking and abused mostly in spvp / and some in wvw.

HallusH.3987:

The thing that makes this annoying and very abused by some classes is the fact that immobilized and fear count as conditions and not a “stun or control effect” so you can’t break out of it.
Personally i facepalm’d at the very first time i seen this and often think “how on earth you design this like this..”
So abilities that are “stun breaks” don’t really help you and you need condition removal.

In my ideal world control effects don’t need to be in 2 groups like their are now.
This make the need for 2 versions of countering it in form of a abilities / utility skills.
So won’t be like some classes have best controlling effects and the best counters.
this “variety” so far seemed very lacking and abused mostly in spvp / and some in wvw.

fear is counted as a controlling effect, you CAN stun break and stability out of fears. you can also remove fear through condi removal.

Stability
Stun breaker
Food
Runes
Traits
Dodge key
Invulnerabilities
Shadow steps
Cleanse
Stealth
Block
Blind
L2P

CCs need to receive finalyl some kind of cooldown, so that you can#t get instantly stunned/knockdowned/dazed again.
Just like Reveal forbids a class that can go into Stealth to use it instantly again, there should players get for like 8 seconds Defiant after being CC’ed so that you can’t get spamm CC’ed in a matter of seconds to death.

CC’s are a strong tactical feature and they should be used VERY WISELY, not get cheesely perma spammed, what makes just the whole game completely unfun and lame.

This way Hammers warriors wouldn’t be able to basically perma knockdown you to death, or a bunch of necros wouldn’t be able to perma fear you away or a bun of thiefs wouldn#t be able tp perma stun you.

Thats something that needs finayl to get fixed and balance and runes/buff items are there absoklutely 0 help against, because the other side just needs to increase as compensation only the amount of players, that CC’s you to keep you perma CC’ed for the case that their victim uses something, that reduces the CC durations, because theres no mechanic,m that protects the victim from getting instantly CC’ed again, once the initial CC effect duration is over…

Hoever, Stealth has that kind of anti-effect that prevents players from instantly using stealth again.
So why make with CC’s not the same?

If people insist now, that with CC’s should not be made the same to balance that gameplay, then I demand as a thief player the removal of that bullcrap of the reveal mechanic…

Let the QQ begin …

What? Thought WvW was just “follow the zerg and spam 1”

Realist.5812:

Stability
Stun breaker
Food
Runes
Traits
Dodge key
Invulnerabilities
Shadow steps
Cleanse
Stealth
Block
Blind
L2P

This. And guess what, next patch all armor fix is for free.

There are other stuff anet need to fix for WvW so please guys…

Realist.5812:

Stability
Stun breaker
Food
Runes
Traits
Dodge key
Invulnerabilities
Shadow steps
Cleanse
Stealth
Block
Blind
L2P

Now look what you did there.
All these require brain activity.

Given the absence of a collision detection system
CC is fine as it is.
It is boosted,but then there are so may avoidance/counter
skills that anything less would make movement during combat
way too easy.

Well some DR on spamming the same skill be it stuns or other condis on one person or group over and over and over does make some sense. Perhaps like after 3ish hits from the same base attack then the duration gets less and less each time but the player never gets completely immune from said attack could work. However, acting on a whim only makes the game worse especially from developers.

All you have to do in WvW is run trains of warriors and guardians. They can do all and are better at most everything than everyone else. Oh, and don’t forget, both can stunlock you to death.

You heard that OP? Build yourself right down to the last detail to counter the immob and stun spams!

Orpheal.8263:

CCs need to receive finalyl some kind of cooldown, so that you can#t get instantly stunned/knockdowned/dazed again.
Just like Reveal forbids a class that can go into Stealth to use it instantly again, there should players get for like 8 seconds Defiant after being CC’ed so that you can’t get spamm CC’ed in a matter of seconds to death.

CC’s are a strong tactical feature and they should be used VERY WISELY, not get cheesely perma spammed, what makes just the whole game completely unfun and lame.

This way Hammers warriors wouldn’t be able to basically perma knockdown you to death, or a bunch of necros wouldn’t be able to perma fear you away or a bun of thiefs wouldn#t be able tp perma stun you.

Thats something that needs finayl to get fixed and balance and runes/buff items are there absoklutely 0 help against, because the other side just needs to increase as compensation only the amount of players, that CC’s you to keep you perma CC’ed for the case that their victim uses something, that reduces the CC durations, because theres no mechanic,m that protects the victim from getting instantly CC’ed again, once the initial CC effect duration is over…

Hoever, Stealth has that kind of anti-effect that prevents players from instantly using stealth again.
So why make with CC’s not the same?

If people insist now, that with CC’s should not be made the same to balance that gameplay, then I demand as a thief player the removal of that bullcrap of the reveal mechanic…

Let the QQ begin …

CC’s are a strong tactical feature and they should be used VERY WISELY, not get cheesely perma spammed, what makes just the whole game completely unfun and lame.

^ One of the best replies on this topic!
And yea you can throw some stuff at me like food buffs or centre my whole build to counter 1 CC. I dont care its just lame to perma spam and get away with it.

Seemore Bunz.7345:

There is a simple counter to Immobilizations/chills/cripples: condi removal skills OR condi duration reduction food/armor stats.

Condition removal is on long cooldowns, condition spamming isn’t.

Sadly, certain classes are dependent on condi spam, so the solution is probably more work than Arenanet can/cba to commit.

wads.5730:

msalakka.4653:

PacoXI.7690:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Bilbo, need I remind you that it only takes 3 players to CC somebody to death, and not everybody has a large amount of stun breakers or condi removal? Also I heard they’re nerfing condi duration reduction food/armor stats.

You’re saying that you shouldn’t lose a 3v1?

He’s saying it shouldn’t be automatic with no ways to counter it.

3 hammer warriors v 1 isn’t really 3v1 anymore, anyways. More like PVE.

you can counter it, use stability and run away. you’re not going to win a 1v3 against any class regardless if they have chain stun or immobs or not, assuming all are at the same skill level..

You have to remember, some classes only get a stability through an elite skill that has at least a 2 minute cooldown (thief and ranger). Stability would be a good excuse if everybody had equal access to it, or if condi-removal skills also gave 5 second stability. But the thing is they don’t, it’s very easy to get CC’d to death.

RyuDragnier.9476:

wads.5730:

msalakka.4653:

PacoXI.7690:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Bilbo, need I remind you that it only takes 3 players to CC somebody to death, and not everybody has a large amount of stun breakers or condi removal? Also I heard they’re nerfing condi duration reduction food/armor stats.

You’re saying that you shouldn’t lose a 3v1?

He’s saying it shouldn’t be automatic with no ways to counter it.

3 hammer warriors v 1 isn’t really 3v1 anymore, anyways. More like PVE.

you can counter it, use stability and run away. you’re not going to win a 1v3 against any class regardless if they have chain stun or immobs or not, assuming all are at the same skill level..

You have to remember, some classes only get a stability through an elite skill that has at least a 2 minute cooldown (thief and ranger). Stability would be a good excuse if everybody had equal access to it, or if condi-removal skills also gave 5 second stability. But the thing is they don’t, it’s very easy to get CC’d to death.

Anything that might ever be in a position where chained cc’s might be a frequent problem is supposed to be in a party with 2 guards. Everyone in that party has “equal access” to 66% stability uptime.

i liked the kd system in gw1. that was a very clever thing what support the skilled, good players (and <3 body block)

Facet.5914:

RyuDragnier.9476:

wads.5730:

msalakka.4653:

PacoXI.7690:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Bilbo, need I remind you that it only takes 3 players to CC somebody to death, and not everybody has a large amount of stun breakers or condi removal? Also I heard they’re nerfing condi duration reduction food/armor stats.

You’re saying that you shouldn’t lose a 3v1?

He’s saying it shouldn’t be automatic with no ways to counter it.

3 hammer warriors v 1 isn’t really 3v1 anymore, anyways. More like PVE.

you can counter it, use stability and run away. you’re not going to win a 1v3 against any class regardless if they have chain stun or immobs or not, assuming all are at the same skill level..

You have to remember, some classes only get a stability through an elite skill that has at least a 2 minute cooldown (thief and ranger). Stability would be a good excuse if everybody had equal access to it, or if condi-removal skills also gave 5 second stability. But the thing is they don’t, it’s very easy to get CC’d to death.

Anything that might ever be in a position where chained cc’s might be a frequent problem is supposed to be in a party with 2 guards. Everyone in that party has “equal access” to 66% stability uptime.

So you expect somebody roaming solo who encounters 2 warriors to be a part of this system? Let me guess…you’ve never roamed solo, have you?

I’ve said it before and its been beaten to death. Diminishing returns do not need to be in GW2.

GW2 already has both immunity to stuns (stability) and abilities to break stuns. Adding DR on to the top of these would just be overkill. The addition of DR leads to less skill play imo. DR would make it harder to punish the opponents mistakes and be a crutch for bad players who get hit by CC a lot.

How is is a crutch? A good player will utilize their defensive abilities (dodges, stunbreaks, blinds, blocks, stabilies) in order to avoid being hit by CC/mitigate the damage done during the CC. This means a good player will be hit less with CC than a bad player. With DR in the game, the bad player benefits by a larger margin, creating a more casual game/easier game mode. No longer do you have to dodge the CC or mitigate it, one can choose to eat the CC at the start of a fight and then know that they are basically immune to it for a period of time without really any action on their part.

TLDR: Diminishing returns are not needed in GW2, since abilities to mitigate CC already exist and DR promotes bad play.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Facet.5914:

RyuDragnier.9476:

wads.5730:

msalakka.4653:

PacoXI.7690:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Bilbo, need I remind you that it only takes 3 players to CC somebody to death, and not everybody has a large amount of stun breakers or condi removal? Also I heard they’re nerfing condi duration reduction food/armor stats.

You’re saying that you shouldn’t lose a 3v1?

He’s saying it shouldn’t be automatic with no ways to counter it.

3 hammer warriors v 1 isn’t really 3v1 anymore, anyways. More like PVE.

you can counter it, use stability and run away. you’re not going to win a 1v3 against any class regardless if they have chain stun or immobs or not, assuming all are at the same skill level..

You have to remember, some classes only get a stability through an elite skill that has at least a 2 minute cooldown (thief and ranger). Stability would be a good excuse if everybody had equal access to it, or if condi-removal skills also gave 5 second stability. But the thing is they don’t, it’s very easy to get CC’d to death.

Anything that might ever be in a position where chained cc’s might be a frequent problem is supposed to be in a party with 2 guards. Everyone in that party has “equal access” to 66% stability uptime.

So you expect somebody roaming solo who encounters 2 warriors to be a part of this system? Let me guess…you’ve never roamed solo, have you?

im sorry but no good thief will die to only 2 hammer warriors. that is the biggest joke. sure you might not be able to kill their, but you certainly wouldnt die to them. are you really expecting to be able to kill them though? i mean it’s a 1v2.

wads.5730:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Facet.5914:

RyuDragnier.9476:

wads.5730:

msalakka.4653:

PacoXI.7690:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Bilbo, need I remind you that it only takes 3 players to CC somebody to death, and not everybody has a large amount of stun breakers or condi removal? Also I heard they’re nerfing condi duration reduction food/armor stats.

You’re saying that you shouldn’t lose a 3v1?

He’s saying it shouldn’t be automatic with no ways to counter it.

3 hammer warriors v 1 isn’t really 3v1 anymore, anyways. More like PVE.

you can counter it, use stability and run away. you’re not going to win a 1v3 against any class regardless if they have chain stun or immobs or not, assuming all are at the same skill level..

You have to remember, some classes only get a stability through an elite skill that has at least a 2 minute cooldown (thief and ranger). Stability would be a good excuse if everybody had equal access to it, or if condi-removal skills also gave 5 second stability. But the thing is they don’t, it’s very easy to get CC’d to death.

Anything that might ever be in a position where chained cc’s might be a frequent problem is supposed to be in a party with 2 guards. Everyone in that party has “equal access” to 66% stability uptime.

So you expect somebody roaming solo who encounters 2 warriors to be a part of this system? Let me guess…you’ve never roamed solo, have you?

im sorry but no good thief will die to only 2 hammer warriors. that is the biggest joke. sure you might not be able to kill their, but you certainly wouldnt die to them. are you really expecting to be able to kill them though? i mean it’s a 1v2.

No, it’s more like getting away from them when they have Greatsword on their secondary set. I try to refuge, they knock me out of it with Hammer #4. I try to run, they immobilize me with #3. I use steal to Stealth, they use Fear Me one after the other (2 in a row), followed by double Earthshaker to down me. Not even joking either, this happened to me the other night.

RyuDragnier.9476:

wads.5730:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Facet.5914:

RyuDragnier.9476:

wads.5730:

msalakka.4653:

PacoXI.7690:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Bilbo, need I remind you that it only takes 3 players to CC somebody to death, and not everybody has a large amount of stun breakers or condi removal? Also I heard they’re nerfing condi duration reduction food/armor stats.

You’re saying that you shouldn’t lose a 3v1?

He’s saying it shouldn’t be automatic with no ways to counter it.

3 hammer warriors v 1 isn’t really 3v1 anymore, anyways. More like PVE.

you can counter it, use stability and run away. you’re not going to win a 1v3 against any class regardless if they have chain stun or immobs or not, assuming all are at the same skill level..

You have to remember, some classes only get a stability through an elite skill that has at least a 2 minute cooldown (thief and ranger). Stability would be a good excuse if everybody had equal access to it, or if condi-removal skills also gave 5 second stability. But the thing is they don’t, it’s very easy to get CC’d to death.

Anything that might ever be in a position where chained cc’s might be a frequent problem is supposed to be in a party with 2 guards. Everyone in that party has “equal access” to 66% stability uptime.

So you expect somebody roaming solo who encounters 2 warriors to be a part of this system? Let me guess…you’ve never roamed solo, have you?

im sorry but no good thief will die to only 2 hammer warriors. that is the biggest joke. sure you might not be able to kill their, but you certainly wouldnt die to them. are you really expecting to be able to kill them though? i mean it’s a 1v2.

No, it’s more like getting away from them when they have Greatsword on their secondary set. I try to refuge, they knock me out of it with Hammer #4. I try to run, they immobilize me with #3. I use steal to Stealth, they use Fear Me one after the other (2 in a row), followed by double Earthshaker to down me. Not even joking either, this happened to me the other night.

So you are lobbying Anet to change the game so that when two opponents play well and you play poorly, you don’t lose?

Of course not. I’d prefer though if on the 3rd CC I’d be able to get out of it a tiny bit faster so I could at least dodge once before I die.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Of course not. I’d prefer though if on the 3rd CC I’d be able to get out of it a tiny bit faster so I could at least dodge once before I die.

I’d like the same on a team of Thieves against me to have a similar penalty then. Since, that’d be clearly unfair as well.

can guarantee that everyone against DR is relying highly on stacking Cc, someone said that Dr leads to less skilled play, what skill is there killing someone who cant do nothing back, because u constantly have them Cc’d? chillingcripple a melee classes while u run nukeing from distance, or immonilized till death with nothing can do. So PRO play there

Bringing Dr into game would make you ohh so skillfull Cc’ers need some skill to play, but guess your against Dr just for that reason

I play guardian, 2 condi’s removed every 10 seconds, 1 removed with shout, another turned into boon, stun breaker and Cc’s just kittened when up against some classes

Yes there is stability, 30 sec Cd or something like that, other Cd’s are longer, when the Cc’s have much shorter Cd, bring the Cd’s of all condi removals, stun breaks down to same as the Cc’s would just be Op, just like Cc’s are Op now

people need to learn to move out of the way hammer train and quit whining

Cheechglg.8734:

can guarantee that everyone against DR is relying highly on stacking Cc, someone said that Dr leads to less skilled play, what skill is there killing someone who cant do nothing back, because u constantly have them Cc’d? chillingcripple a melee classes while u run nukeing from distance, or immonilized till death with nothing can do. So PRO play there

I was the one who said DR promotes bad play. And its true. It promotes the ability to eat CC and moves that normally should be avoided at all costs/cost of a stunbreak and high cd ability.

Something else I would like to point out is that the stuff you mentioned isn’t really what people here would consider CC eligible for DR. You point out a lot of soft CC, which is exactly the stuff that can be used to great effect to avoid the current hard CC that people have issues with. What those players are doing is an example of skilled play, knowing the enemy’s weakness and exploiting it to stay alive to deal damage.

Cheechglg.8734:

can guarantee that everyone against DR is relying highly on stacking Cc, someone said that Dr leads to less skilled play, what skill is there killing someone who cant do nothing back, because u constantly have them Cc’d? chillingcripple a melee classes while u run nukeing from distance, or immonilized till death with nothing can do. So PRO play there

Bringing Dr into game would make you ohh so skillfull Cc’ers need some skill to play, but guess your against Dr just for that reason

I play guardian, 2 condi’s removed every 10 seconds, 1 removed with shout, another turned into boon, stun breaker and Cc’s just kittened when up against some classes

Yes there is stability, 30 sec Cd or something like that, other Cd’s are longer, when the Cc’s have much shorter Cd, bring the Cd’s of all condi removals, stun breaks down to same as the Cc’s would just be Op, just like Cc’s are Op now

Or, they are people that realize that every argument in favor of DR features many players working together to overwhelm the defenses of one person. Which is exactly what smart players are supposed to do, and is exactly how the game is supposed to work, but for some reason people are acting like it is some sort of travesty.

The counter against one team working together is for the other team to work together. A properly built melee party has plenty of shared stability and like six different ways to share cleanse. Properly aware periphs can stealth allies under target, or cc the enemies to allow the ally to escape, or pressure them so they play more defensively. And if all else fails a player can be saved several times with revive/banner.

Stark.1350:

As do immobilize and other crowd control affects. The end.

Agreed, stuns and root especially since there are some pretty long stackable root that’s almost unavoidable. But I would argue stability also needs a look at, just as cc needs diminishing returns, stability needs fading effects so people can’t keep such high stability uptime.

Facet.5914:

Cheechglg.8734:

can guarantee that everyone against DR is relying highly on stacking Cc, someone said that Dr leads to less skilled play, what skill is there killing someone who cant do nothing back, because u constantly have them Cc’d? chillingcripple a melee classes while u run nukeing from distance, or immonilized till death with nothing can do. So PRO play there

Bringing Dr into game would make you ohh so skillfull Cc’ers need some skill to play, but guess your against Dr just for that reason

I play guardian, 2 condi’s removed every 10 seconds, 1 removed with shout, another turned into boon, stun breaker and Cc’s just kittened when up against some classes

Yes there is stability, 30 sec Cd or something like that, other Cd’s are longer, when the Cc’s have much shorter Cd, bring the Cd’s of all condi removals, stun breaks down to same as the Cc’s would just be Op, just like Cc’s are Op now

Or, they are people that realize that every argument in favor of DR features many players working together to overwhelm the defenses of one person. Which is exactly what smart players are supposed to do, and is exactly how the game is supposed to work, but for some reason people are acting like it is some sort of travesty.

The counter against one team working together is for the other team to work together. A properly built melee party has plenty of shared stability and like six different ways to share cleanse. Properly aware periphs can stealth allies under target, or cc the enemies to allow the ally to escape, or pressure them so they play more defensively. And if all else fails a player can be saved several times with revive/banner.

In zerg fights, DR wouldn’t effect anything the first rush through, it would be the repeat rushes that would suffer. But as anybody in T2 can tell you, that first rush is usually the most devastating one since anybody caught in the way of the train is dead to begin with. If Z1 trains into Z2 before Z2 can react, Z2 is usually the one who will lose the fight. Whereas if Z1 trains into Z2 and they dodge, Z1 will suffer due to an immediate counterattack. DR wouldn’t effect that which determines the entire fight to begin with. It’d only help in small man fights or tower/keep defense/offense. In terms of actual zerg versus zerg…DR effects nothing.

Cheechglg.8734:

can guarantee that everyone against DR is relying highly on stacking Cc, someone said that Dr leads to less skilled play, what skill is there killing someone who cant do nothing back, because u constantly have them Cc’d? chillingcripple a melee classes while u run nukeing from distance, or immonilized till death with nothing can do. So PRO play there

Bringing Dr into game would make you ohh so skillfull Cc’ers need some skill to play, but guess your against Dr just for that reason

I play guardian, 2 condi’s removed every 10 seconds, 1 removed with shout, another turned into boon, stun breaker and Cc’s just kittened when up against some classes

Yes there is stability, 30 sec Cd or something like that, other Cd’s are longer, when the Cc’s have much shorter Cd, bring the Cd’s of all condi removals, stun breaks down to same as the Cc’s would just be Op, just like Cc’s are Op now

the skill comes from the ability to mitigate and evade the chain cc. it separates skilled players from rallybait.

Seemore Bunz.7345:

…. This would imply that you are fighting a group/zerg ….

^
Accurate