(Sugg.) Skirmish Rewards, Active not Passive

(Sugg.) Skirmish Rewards, Active not Passive

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Posted by: Mysteriax.6049

Mysteriax.6049

Hi all,
I wanted to introduce a potential change to the way pips are acquired in World V. World, adjusting pip acquisition from a passive process to an active one. Please take a look and let me know what you think.

Pips are now acquired as follows:

Capturing enemy objectives:
The player stands in a cap circle while an objective is capped.

Sentry/Shrine: 0 pips
Camp: 1 pip
Tower: 2 pips
Keep: 3 pips

Defending objectives:
A “Defend an objective” event is successfully completed while a player is in that objective’s “territory” (as outlined from new gliding changes)

Camps/Towers/Keeps: 2 pips per successful Defense Event

Note: Tier of the objective does not affect the bonus acquired.

Battling NPC mercenaries:
The player completes events related to NPC mercenary areas in Eternal Battlegrounds.

Converting NPC Areas to your side: 2 pips
Reverting an enemy NPC area to Neutral: 2 pips

Upgrading objectives:
The player is in the territory of a camp, tower or keep when it upgrades.

Condition: The player has escorted at least a quarter of the yaks required to upgrade that objective.
Camp T1: 2 pips, T2: 3 pips, T3: 4 pips
Tower T1: 3 pips, T2: 4 pips, T3: 5 pips
Keep T1: 4 pips, T2: 5 pips, T3: 6 pips
Successfully completing an “Escort Yak” event: 1 pip

Defeating enemy players
The following conditions are met while a player of an opposing server is in the same territory.

A Commander is defeated: 2 pips

A lieutenant/shared participatant is defeated: 1 pip

Note: For this to work, a commander would be restricted in how many lieutenants he or she can appoint. Preferably 1 for every 5 members.

Changes to Pip Acquisition Bonuses:

Commander Bonus: Removed.
Wood Tier Completed from previous Week: Removed.
Outnumbered: Capturing objectives will now yield +1 pips. Defending objectives will now yield +1 pips.
Skirmish Bonus: + 1 pip to each acquisition if your team won the last skirmish.
Rank Bonuses: Removed.
Server Loyalty Bonus:
+1 pip if you have remained on the same server for 3 months.
+2 pip if you have remained on the same server for 6 months.
+3 pips if you have remained on the same server for 9 months.

Note: All the above values can be adjusted to balance out rewards.

Change Log
• Bonuses for capturing objectives of higher tier has been removed.
• Number of pips for taking a keep and upgrading objectives have been reduced.
• Removed bonuses for WvW rank and instead added bonuses for server loyalty.
• Added “Defeating enemy players” rewards.
• Added a condition for receiving the “Upgrading objective” reward.

Summary
• This system balances out a passive rewards system (Reward tracks) with an active one (Skirmish chests) instead of two passive reward systems.

• You are rewarded for what YOU accomplish in WvW, not what your server/team accomplishes as a whole. Losing a matchup or population disparity between servers does not affect the rewards you, your squad or guild group receives.

• You are rewarded on your time, not on a set interval (every 5 minutes). The reward track system may still follow a set interval.

• This system does not factor in “participation”. You earn the same number of pips for capturing an objective if you have T0 participation or T6 participation. You can jump into WvW, port back for a quick break, and take another objective without having your rewards diminished.

• Players are rewarded regardless of what they do in WvW: zerg, roam, defend objectives, or escort yaks. Each aspect of WvW is valuable and should be rewarded.

Thanks for your feedback!

Bad Axxe
Blissful Epidemic [Blis]
Gate of Madness

(edited by Mysteriax.6049)

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Posted by: SkyFallsInThunder.8257

SkyFallsInThunder.8257

Yes, it would be a very good ideea to make all wvw ktrain. No thank you.

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Posted by: Mysteriax.6049

Mysteriax.6049

Yes, it would be a very good ideea to make all wvw ktrain. No thank you.

One solution for your critique is reducing the number of pips earned for capture events and increasing the number of pips earned for defending, upgrading and running yaks.

This would incentivize more people to defend objectives, thus making it more difficult for groups to karma train. Keep in mind that the “defend” rewards are only earned if the objective remains under your control.

Bad Axxe
Blissful Epidemic [Blis]
Gate of Madness

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

The issue here is the same as rewarding server points per objective cap/activity. It becomes fully dependant on the enemy allowing you to get points by playing the point game in return. Thats not how a game of war is supposed to play out. We already partially have this issue (ever tried getting participation up by watching over a border you already own and the enemy does little on?). We dont need more of it.

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Posted by: Gop.8713

Gop.8713

The goal of making rewards active rather than passive is a good one to strive for, but I think the difficulties with implementation are why the passive system was originally chosen for reward tracks and followed for the pip system . . .

The most notable issues I see with the system in the op on a first reading . . :

1) It’s giving out way way way too many pips. Zerglings who individually contribute very little to their server would be done with the entire track by the end of prime time on reset night lol . . .

2) It further encourages blobbing/training, as already mentioned. But not just on offense any more, now the entire server is going to want to be there for that 80th yak on every keep . . .

3) It eliminates the loyalty bonus, and as minor as that bonus is it’s also the system currently in place to discourage jumping servers at every matchup . . .

And like I said that’s just on the first glance. There are good things about the idea as well, and like I said the goal of rewarding active, productive participation rather than just ‘being there’ is a good one too. But I don’t think there is any practical way to accomplish that goal . . .

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Posted by: Rhiannon.1726

Rhiannon.1726

You forgot pips for player kills and there are other flaws.

This was reset yesterday evening on our home border:
I captured one tower, maybe 3 sentries and got ca. 3 defend events for our garrison. We mostly fought open field or tried to get into bay.

Now count how much pips we would have gotten.

The enemy who was mostly around the heavily sieged bay would have gotten more pips as they got more defend events and were in the territory of their upgrading keep.

Additionaly our zerg would have suffered from people porting back to spawn to get the pips for the upgrades of east/west tower and garrison, which would have left us outnumbered.

(edited by Rhiannon.1726)

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Posted by: Nighteyess.2149

Nighteyess.2149

I think you forgot some of us like WvW for the fights.

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Posted by: Lord Trejgon.2809

Lord Trejgon.2809

I think you forgot some of us like WvW for the fights.

Personally I like WvW for the “War” aspect of it. not for the “battle” aspect of it
[on tactical level WvW meta tends to devolve into unenjoyable blob fights, when tacklign things on strategical level it gets much more variety of more interesting things]

as for pips reward changes? I’m not entirely sure – it would be nice if the new system didn’t just throw out casually getting wooden chest completed in previous week although I do see how it would multiply amounts of pips quite powerfully in this sort of setup. some sort of pip award for actually killing enemies also would indeed be nice due to quite a few roamers whom focus mostly on ambushing and killing off smaller groups of enemies without having capability to actually mount a siege of even a tower.

also speed of getting pips may be an issue although I think this one can be awerted by “just” increasing amounts of pips needed

“-Shield is meant to be broken!”
“-and on this occasion I keep mine plate armors”
discussion about offensive/deffensive playstyles

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Posted by: Mysteriax.6049

Mysteriax.6049

The goal of making rewards active rather than passive is a good one to strive for, but I think the difficulties with implementation are why the passive system was originally chosen for reward tracks and followed for the pip system . . .

The most notable issues I see with the system in the op on a first reading . . :

1) It’s giving out way way way too many pips. Zerglings who individually contribute very little to their server would be done with the entire track by the end of prime time on reset night lol . . .

2) It further encourages blobbing/training, as already mentioned. But not just on offense any more, now the entire server is going to want to be there for that 80th yak on every keep . . .

3) It eliminates the loyalty bonus, and as minor as that bonus is it’s also the system currently in place to discourage jumping servers at every matchup . . .

And like I said that’s just on the first glance. There are good things about the idea as well, and like I said the goal of rewarding active, productive participation rather than just ‘being there’ is a good one too. But I don’t think there is any practical way to accomplish that goal . . .

1) As stated previously, number of pips received can be toned down to an appropriate level. I’ll attempt to do that.

2) Good point. There can be a restriction such as “You only get the reward for fortifying a keep (80 yaks) if you have escorted 20 yaks”.

3) The loyalty bonus can be brought back or other inhibitors put into place to reward server loyalty and discourage jumping servers.

Bad Axxe
Blissful Epidemic [Blis]
Gate of Madness

(edited by Mysteriax.6049)

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Posted by: Lahmia.2193

Lahmia.2193

i’m not a wvw player but i think this is a good idea because it make it easy to get pips but totally doesnt turn wvw into eotm which they interntionally left pips out of because it was already a k train farm zone

Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.

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Posted by: Kovu.7560

Kovu.7560

I like the idea. Its a great concept.

~ Kovu

Charr Ranger, Necromancer, Thief
Fort Aspenwood. [CREW], [TLC], [ShW], [UNIV]