Guild Wars 2

EDIT: Added an extra suggestion. If people come up with good suggestions in this thread I might add them to the OP. So far all 4 suggestions are my own.

Hello people. As someone who plays all 3 aspects of GW2 (PvE, PvP and WvW) I feel that WvW should be a bit more rewarding.

I really love WvW and it is by far my most favorite game mode in GW2. I get a certain kick out of 50 versus 50 men battles, or being in a “zergbusting” guild and defeating enemies who outnumber you by using superior tactics and positioning. It’s something I enjoy doing and is perhaps even more fun than doing 40 men raids in World of Warcraft (something I loved to do back in the days when I played World of Warcraft).

However, despite WvW being my favorite game mode in GW2, I noticed that I’m gravitating more towards PvP lately, my 2nd favorite mode. Why? Because PvP is way more rewarding. I really love the reward tracks in PvP and seeing how you’re progressing in these tracks and working towards rewards such as unique skins that only PvP players can get.

PvP might not be as rewarding as PvE in terms of loot and gold. If you really want to make gold fast in GW2, you have to do PvE. And I’m fine with that. I’m content with the amount of rewards that PvP gives me and I’m content with the types of rewards that PvP gives me.

Going back to WvW really makes me miss the reward tracks that PvP has and I think WvW in general is a very unrewarding game mode. Even after what we consider a good WvW raid evening, the rewards are still very lackluster. I easily get more loot bags from 1 hour of playing Silverwastes than raiding in WvW with my guild for 3 hours straight, even when we’re winning.

I have 4 suggestions:

Suggestion 1: WvW Reward Tracks

Please give WvW reward tracks similar to PvP. Maybe you can even make it so that WvW and PvP share the same reward tracks, I’d be fine with that. I really enjoy the PvP reward tracks a lot and I think WvW would feel a lot more rewarding if we can work through our reward tracks by claiming enemy camps/towers/keeps, by killing enemy players and by defending our own camps/towers/keeps.

Better yet, give WvW an unique WvW-only reward track that can give us unique WvW armors. We already have unique WvW weapons that we could get during the tournament seasons. Give us a matching set of WvW armor that we can get through a WvW reward track and I’d be very happy!

Suggestion 2: WvW Claim Tickets For Unique Rewards

Make the WvW tournament reward system permanent and expand on that. I really enjoyed how during the last WvW fall tournament we got rewarded with WvW claim tickets based on how well we preformed as a server each week. It gave us a real motivation to fight hard against our opponents to win. Right now winning in WvW means nothing. Us avid WvW fans don’t get anything for fighting hard for our server and ensuring a win. It would be so cool if winning a match would give everyone who really helped that week a little extra reward.

Suggestion 3: Both Reward Tracks and Claim Tickets

Combine both suggestion 1 and 2. Add the PvP reward tracks to WvW, give WvW an unique reward track and also reward us with WvW claim tickets each week based on how well we preformed that week as a server. This would surely make WvW feel very rewarding and I don’t think this would be too “OP” in terms of handing out rewards. I think it would be just right and make the WvW rewards feel more in par with PvP and PvE.

Suggestion 4: Loot Chests for Defending (and more)

Something else than a WvW reward track. Give us loot chests for capping points (camps/towers/keeps/garrisons), defending points, killing enemy players and the server’s points per tick (PPT).
Defending points should give you more rewards than capping new points and I think the amount of rewards you get for defending a point should be linked to how far that point is upgraded. Defending a tier 3 tower should give you more rewards than defending a tier 1 keep.
At the same time capping a tier 3 point should also give you more rewards than capping a tier 1 point. However, to discourage players from just camping at one keep, the points per tick should also reward players personally. So if you’d just camp out at 1 spot and let the enemies take everything else you’ll obviously lose out, a lot.

Suggestion 5: Improve the ‘Outnumbered’ buff

Right now, the ‘Outnumbered’ buff merely gives us a small bonus to exp, wxp and magic find. This is not good enough and doesn’t help evening the odds. I suggest to add ‘+50 to all stats’ to the ‘Outnumbered’ buff. Maybe crank it up to ‘+100 to all stats’ or maybe even ‘+150 to all stats’ if the outnumbered server is severely outnumbered.
On top of that I would like to see a ‘+50% gold rewarded’ buff for being outnumbered as well.

What do you guys think?

Love this, reward tracks all the way.

As long as the rewards remain way below PvE levels I’m fine with increasing them. EotM is a good example of what happens when you make a WvW map give more of certain rewards than PvE maps do, although I’m pretty sure most of the PvE karma trainers there haven’t even tried Silverwastes chest farming (won’t help for karma, but for ascended mats… oh my).

Tom Gore.4035:

As long as the rewards remain way below PvE levels I’m fine with increasing them.

Why should it be way below PvE rewards? In my opinion the PvE players are already a very privileged bunch. They get the most stuff, the most updates, the best rewards and Anet in general caters a lot to the PvE players. PvP got some much needed love as well, but us WvW players are still stuck with the same old maps and an extra pseudo-WvW map used for karma training or leveling alts. On top of that the rewards we get are super lackluster.

We fight hard to ensure you PvE players got your server bonuses. You might not realize it but it’s because of us WvW players that you get exp bonuses, bonuses to crafting exp, bonuses to gold from monster, etc. etc. etc. The better we play in WvW, the higher that bonus is. Sadly those bonuses are often more beneficial to the PvE players than us WvW players.

I would like us WvW players to be rewarded for our effort in a way that seems fair for the amount of effort we put in WvW. Server bonuses are nice, but they don’t really benefit me a whole lot because I don’t play PvE a lot and I’m rarely crafting (I get my gear from the WvW badge vendors). And let’s be honest, nobody really cares about these bonuses, not even PvE players who are often not even aware that these bonuses even exist. I want real tangible rewards! Loot, unique skins, T6 mats, that sort of stuff!

In my opinion the WvW rewards should be on par with PvE, or at the very least be on par with PvP. Simply giving us reward tracks similar to PvP would already make me very happy.

Didn’t they change the server bonuses after mega server ? Thought those didn’t work in PvE any longer ? (Don’t know).

joneirikb.7506:

Didn’t they change the server bonuses after mega server ? Thought those didn’t work in PvE any longer ? (Don’t know).

Pretty sure they still work. You can still see the bonuses if you open the WvW tab so I assume they still work.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Tom Gore.4035:

As long as the rewards remain way below PvE levels I’m fine with increasing them.

Why should it be way below PvE rewards? In my opinion the PvE players are already a very privileged bunch. They get the most stuff, the most updates, the best rewards and Anet in general caters a lot to the PvE players. PvP got some much needed love as well, but us WvW players are still stuck with the same old maps and an extra pseudo-WvW map used for karma training or leveling alts. On top of that the rewards we get are super lackluster.

Wow, did you even read the post? It has nothing to do with PvE player entitlement, take off your blinders and consider the bigger picture instead of giving a reactionary response based on your own entitlement as a player.

The reason why WvW rewards cannot be carelessly increased is because there is a risk of breaking the game mode if you do so. WvW is less rewarding than PvE partly because opposition from other players makes it impossible to get the maximum amount of rewards.

If you make WvW rewarding enough to be an enticing destination to PvE players, some of them will try to game the system so that they can maximize the rewards. This is exactly what happened in Edge of the Mists, where you now have some groups that are very toxic to anyone who tries to PvP in that zone. By encouraging people whose intent is to blob up and avoid fights, you will ruin the one appeal that WvW has to its core player group, which is diverse and challenging PvP encounters. If you lose these encounters, WvW players will leave the game no matter how generous you make the rewards.

I’m not say WvW rewards should be left as they are, but they can only be increased if the whole system is changed so that zerging and PvD is not the optimal way to earn rewards in WvW.

Regarding your specific suggestions: It doesn’t matter if you make it a reward track system if the reward track is advanced the same way WXP is advanced right now. As well, tournament rewards need to be implemented very carefully because if you just make it rewarding to play on the winning server then you just encourage stacking on a single server.

Bertrand.3057:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Tom Gore.4035:

As long as the rewards remain way below PvE levels I’m fine with increasing them.

Why should it be way below PvE rewards? In my opinion the PvE players are already a very privileged bunch. They get the most stuff, the most updates, the best rewards and Anet in general caters a lot to the PvE players. PvP got some much needed love as well, but us WvW players are still stuck with the same old maps and an extra pseudo-WvW map used for karma training or leveling alts. On top of that the rewards we get are super lackluster.

Wow, did you even read the post? It has nothing to do with PvE player entitlement, take off your blinders and consider the bigger picture instead of giving a reactionary response based on your own entitlement as a player.

Wow dude, no need to be so hostile/rude like that. That’s totally uncalled for. Calm down.

Yes, I did read his post. Yes, I do see the bigger picture. Obviously just like you I don’t want opportunists and farmers swarming to WvW for the rewards, hence I’m fine with WvW being less rewarding than grinding Silverwastes for example. I already said that. Did you even read my posts?

As for rewarding the winning server each week and you bringing up the possibility of people swarming to 1 server: That won’t happen and even if it would, it won’t be an issue due to the population cap on the WvW maps. If everyone would swarm to Blackgate they’d only hurt themselves, because instead of being able to play and get rewards they’ll be stuck in the queues forever and not getting anything. That is one reason why these sort of things usually sort themselves out. For example: a lot of guilds from tier 1 servers have been transferring to tier 2 in the hope to find more balanced fights and shorter queues there. The guild I’m in actually came from Blackgate (#1 tier 1 server) but went to Tarnished Coast (#3 tier 1 server) to have more balanced and more interesting fights. It’s so much more rewarding when you bust a big BG zerg than destroying the tiny TC zergs.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Wow dude, no need to be so hostile/rude like that. That’s totally uncalled for. Calm down.

Yes, I did read his post. Yes, I do see the bigger picture. Obviously just like you I don’t want opportunists and farmers swarming to WvW for the rewards, hence I’m fine with WvW being less rewarding than grinding Silverwastes for example. I already said that. Did you even read my posts?

Eh, you dismissed Tom’s response by telling him, "We fight hard to ensure you PvE players got your server bonuses. You might not realize it but it’s because of us WvW players that you get exp bonuses, bonuses to crafting exp, bonuses to gold from monster, etc. etc. etc. " instead of actually addressing the argument being made. If you did read his post, there’s no indication of that in your response.

One of the risks is that WvW can actually be a lot more rewarding if people gamed the system, and even a moderate increase in rewards can encourage that. So yes, it might still be less rewarding than PvE when played as WvW, but would also be more rewarding than PvE when played as PvD.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

As for rewarding the winning server each week and you bringing up the possibility of people swarming to 1 server: That won’t happen and even if it would, it won’t be an issue due to the population cap on the WvW maps. If everyone would swarm to Blackgate they’d only hurt themselves, because instead of being able to play and get rewards they’ll be stuck in the queues forever and not getting anything. That is one reason why these sort of things usually sort themselves out. For example: a lot of guilds from tier 1 servers have been transferring to tier 2 in the hope to find more balanced fights and shorter queues there.

It happened already in previous tournaments, I think every tournament has seen a net transfer towards higher tiers. People who are just looking to get claim tickets don’t really care about queues anyways. It’s only the WvW players who would suffer. Since you say you went to the #3 server, obviously you didn’t care so much about the incentive to be on the winning team that you say should be added.

I like the idea of reward tracks in WvW. That would be a nice addition. I’d want to see rewards nerfed in EotM at the same time though.

On the topic of reward tracks specifically, while I’d probably be delighted to have an extra means of getting loot in WvW, I don’t know that it’s good for the game overall.

• There’s already a couple different ways to get rewards in WvW, instead of bloating the system, why not work on the existing ones? The one argument I would consider is replacing an existing system if it does not work well at all.
• Reward tracks are one of the unique draws of sPvP, and requires people to learn PvP in a way a WvW reward track might not. This would really throw a wrench in the development of sPvP.
• Imagine introducing a reward track in PvE. That would basically homogenize/cheapen all the PvE activity, since you could just find an optimal way to advance the track and avoid content you didn’t like or found too difficult. Since part of WvW activity is PvE/PvD, I don’t think that this is a frivolous proposition.
• A WvW reward track would be more appealing to PvE players than just a straight increase in rewards because it would allow them to access rewards they might otherwise not wish to pursue.

i kinda like what other games have done with RvR , where depending on how much you personally contributed to the score directly coincides with the rewards you get.

Bertrand.3057:

On the topic of reward tracks specifically, while I’d probably be delighted to have an extra means of getting loot in WvW, I don’t know that it’s good for the game overall.

• There’s already a couple different ways to get rewards in WvW, instead of bloating the system, why not work on the existing ones? The one argument I would consider is replacing an existing system if it does not work well at all.
• Reward tracks are one of the unique draws of sPvP, and requires people to learn PvP in a way a WvW reward track might not. This would really throw a wrench in the development of sPvP.
• Imagine introducing a reward track in PvE. That would basically homogenize/cheapen all the PvE activity, since you could just find an optimal way to advance the track and avoid content you didn’t like or found too difficult. Since part of WvW activity is PvE/PvD, I don’t think that this is a frivolous proposition.
• A WvW reward track would be more appealing to PvE players than just a straight increase in rewards because it would allow them to access rewards they might otherwise not wish to pursue.

I see your point. I think there are workarounds though.

Here are some suggestions to make reward tracks work in WvW (a lot of these suggestions could also be applied to loot chests and doesn’t necessarily need a reward track):

1. Link the advancement in the track to wxp. Everytime you go rank up, you’ll also advance down the track. The track should be disabled in EOTM and only work in the borderlands so people can’t easily farm these reward tracks in EOTM.

2. Link the advancement in the track to Badges of Honor. You can spend badges in order to progress your track. At the same time the amount of badges being handed out in EOTM should be nerved so people can’t easily farm these tracks in EOTM.

3. Link the advancement in the track to capping points (camps/towers/keeps/garrisons), defending points, killing enemy players and the points per tick (PPT).
Defending points should give you more rewards than capping new points and I think the amount of rewards you get for defending a point should be linked to how far that point is upgraded. Defending a tier 3 tower should give you more rewards than defending a tier 1 keep.
At the same time capping a tier 3 point should also give you more rewards than capping a tier 1 point. However, to discourage players from just camping at one keep, the points per tick should also reward players personally. So if you’d just camp out at 1 spot and let the enemies take everything else you’ll obviously lose out, a lot.

Personally I really like my 3rd suggestion and I think it doesn’t even need the implementation of WvW reward tracks (although I would like that), it could even work with regular loot chests that increasingly gives you better stuff based on how far you’ve upgraded your points and how high your server’s PPT is at that moment.

I definitely agree that increasing incentives for active defense is a good way to boost overall WvW rewards, but part of that will involve fixing how those events track participation. I think the devs have signaled that this is something that will be improved in the expansion, of course it’d have to be well-executed.

There was a decent discussion a while back (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Suggestion-More-Events-in-WvW/first) about how to shift the WvW mentality from PvD. One of the ideas I raised was to give map-wide rewards based on participation in small events as well as overall success over short periods, kind of like how there are map-wide events in the new PvE maps. Perhaps they’d integrate something like that in the new map, one can only hope that someone paid attention.

A pavilon reward merchant should be enough who gives things for badges

McWolfy.5924:

A pavilon reward merchant should be enough who gives things for badges

You mean like the WvW armor merchant and the WvW weapon merchant?

Sure, but then they should buff the amount of badges we get in real WvW, nerf the amount of badges we get in EOTM and give us more cool stuff to buy for our badges, such as unique skins, T6 mats, obsidian shards, etc. etc. etc.

WvW is the least rewarding because it’s by far the least balanced area of the game. At least in PvE the mobs scale… 50v10 fights don’t scale players. PvP should reward more than PvE imo though since it takes more skill (outside of practice which shouldn’t reward hardly anything).

They should award more loots or money in WvW. Taking over a Tower only gives you a silver?! That’s so cheap. With the high cost of food buffs (which is a must), I simply can’t afford to play WvW too long or else I go broke. I wish killing enemies would drop champion loot bags.

If wvw rewards were implemented properly, you would earn more in wvw than you would dungeons due to wvw costing much more to do than just about anything in the game. Making wvw unaffordable for all players isn’t exactly making for a good game. Once you buy siege, influence for buffs, food, upgrades, it gets expensive to play. Pretty much wvw is PAY TO WIN and it shouldn’t be that way. If done properly, you would even have something left over to upgrade your gear after buying all that stuff, but it is a money sink instead.

lil devils x.6071:

If wvw rewards were implemented properly, you would earn more in wvw than you would dungeons due to wvw costing much more to do than just about anything in the game. Making wvw unaffordable for all players isn’t exactly making for a good game. Once you buy siege, influence for buffs, food, upgrades, it gets expensive to play. Pretty much wvw is PAY TO WIN and it shouldn’t be that way. If done properly, you would even have something left over to upgrade your gear after buying all that stuff, but it is a money sink instead.

It is indeed pay/zerg/coverage to win, thus not really balanced or competitive. That’s exactly why it shouldn’t be rewarded as much as other aspects of the game which are better balanced.

Aberrant.6749:

lil devils x.6071:

If wvw rewards were implemented properly, you would earn more in wvw than you would dungeons due to wvw costing much more to do than just about anything in the game. Making wvw unaffordable for all players isn’t exactly making for a good game. Once you buy siege, influence for buffs, food, upgrades, it gets expensive to play. Pretty much wvw is PAY TO WIN and it shouldn’t be that way. If done properly, you would even have something left over to upgrade your gear after buying all that stuff, but it is a money sink instead.

It is indeed pay/zerg/coverage to win, thus not really balanced or competitive. That’s exactly why it shouldn’t be rewarded as much as other aspects of the game which are better balanced.

That makes no sense, in other games it is rewarding to be competitive, and it is much more balanced than gw2. To help balance it , wvw should be self sustaining not requiring you to do anything else to enjoy it, just as you can enjoy pvp without doing anything else. Many games the pvp gives more personal reward to players than pve, and it should. Coming from full loot, no safe zone pvp games, the idea that players should not be rewarded for pvp in wvw makes no sense what so ever.

Giving players rewards would help remove some of the pay to win imbalance issues, since you would be able to support playing wvw by playing wvw, and not just by credit card. LOL

Wvw Players spend more real cash on the game than anyone else, they deserve some loot too. For some wvw players, wvw is the entire game, as they do nothing else, and would rather play another game instead of being forced into pve. A game mechanic is supposed to be bringing in players, not sending them elsewhere, it needs to be resolved.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Suggestion 4: Loot Chests for Defending (and more)

Something else than a WvW reward track. Give us loot chests for capping points (camps/towers/keeps/garrisons), defending points, killing enemy players and the server’s points per tick (PPT).
Defending points should give you more rewards than capping new points and I think the amount of rewards you get for defending a point should be linked to how far that point is upgraded. Defending a tier 3 tower should give you more rewards than defending a tier 1 keep.
At the same time capping a tier 3 point should also give you more rewards than capping a tier 1 point. However, to discourage players from just camping at one keep, the points per tick should also reward players personally. So if you’d just camp out at 1 spot and let the enemies take everything else you’ll obviously lose out, a lot.

What do you guys think?

Seems like something similar to this has been in testing… Silverwastes towers reward you for defending. Why couldn’t WvW reward you in a similar manner?

Suggestion,get rid of the kittening lag.I dont give a kitten about rewards if the game is unplayable most of the times.

lil devils x.6071:

Aberrant.6749:

lil devils x.6071:

If wvw rewards were implemented properly, you would earn more in wvw than you would dungeons due to wvw costing much more to do than just about anything in the game. Making wvw unaffordable for all players isn’t exactly making for a good game. Once you buy siege, influence for buffs, food, upgrades, it gets expensive to play. Pretty much wvw is PAY TO WIN and it shouldn’t be that way. If done properly, you would even have something left over to upgrade your gear after buying all that stuff, but it is a money sink instead.

It is indeed pay/zerg/coverage to win, thus not really balanced or competitive. That’s exactly why it shouldn’t be rewarded as much as other aspects of the game which are better balanced.

That makes no sense, in other games it is rewarding to be competitive, and it is much more balanced than gw2. To help balance it , wvw should be self sustaining not requiring you to do anything else to enjoy it, just as you can enjoy pvp without doing anything else. Many games the pvp gives more personal reward to players than pve, and it should. Coming from full loot, no safe zone pvp games, the idea that players should not be rewarded for pvp in wvw makes no sense what so ever.

Giving players rewards would help remove some of the pay to win imbalance issues, since you would be able to support playing wvw by playing wvw, and not just by credit card. LOL

Wvw Players spend more real cash on the game than anyone else, they deserve some loot too. For some wvw players, wvw is the entire game, as they do nothing else, and would rather play another game instead of being forced into pve. A game mechanic is supposed to be bringing in players, not sending them elsewhere, it needs to be resolved.

WvW is not competitive. It’s pay for siege/transfers/outnumber to win. Rewarding players more would do nothing to help this. To balance WvW you would need to force even numbers. That’s not going to happen though because people don’t like queues. You want competitive, go play PvP. Why should they reward some one well for playing in the easiest/least balanced part of the game? That makes no sense.

Where you getting this “Wvw players spend more real cash”? Please site your source.

Caedmon.6798:

Suggestion,get rid of the kittening lag.I dont give a kitten about rewards if the game is unplayable most of the times.

That’s what happens when the game mode is designed in a way to where zerging is often the best option.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

it but it’s because of us WvW players that you get exp bonuses, bonuses to crafting exp, bonuses to gold from monster, etc. etc. etc. The better we play in WvW, the higher that bonus is. Sadly those bonuses are often more beneficial to the PvE players than us WvW players.

Me as PvE player doesn’t care wether you guys are giving me bonuses or not. I even forgot I get bonusses because players love to play WvW.

I think you guys in WvW should be rewarded for doing what you love to do, but this is just some crappy argument that we supposed to be thankfull?

No.

Guardian of Angels.9867:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

it but it’s because of us WvW players that you get exp bonuses, bonuses to crafting exp, bonuses to gold from monster, etc. etc. etc. The better we play in WvW, the higher that bonus is. Sadly those bonuses are often more beneficial to the PvE players than us WvW players.

Me as PvE player doesn’t care wether you guys are giving me bonuses or not. I even forgot I get bonusses because players love to play WvW.

I think you guys in WvW should be rewarded for doing what you love to do, but this is just some crappy argument that we supposed to be thankfull?

No.

Agreed. It’s their choice to WvW. You owe WvW players nothing for a measly 5% xp buff or whatever.

Aberrant.6749:

lil devils x.6071:

Aberrant.6749:

lil devils x.6071:

If wvw rewards were implemented properly, you would earn more in wvw than you would dungeons due to wvw costing much more to do than just about anything in the game. Making wvw unaffordable for all players isn’t exactly making for a good game. Once you buy siege, influence for buffs, food, upgrades, it gets expensive to play. Pretty much wvw is PAY TO WIN and it shouldn’t be that way. If done properly, you would even have something left over to upgrade your gear after buying all that stuff, but it is a money sink instead.

It is indeed pay/zerg/coverage to win, thus not really balanced or competitive. That’s exactly why it shouldn’t be rewarded as much as other aspects of the game which are better balanced.

That makes no sense, in other games it is rewarding to be competitive, and it is much more balanced than gw2. To help balance it , wvw should be self sustaining not requiring you to do anything else to enjoy it, just as you can enjoy pvp without doing anything else. Many games the pvp gives more personal reward to players than pve, and it should. Coming from full loot, no safe zone pvp games, the idea that players should not be rewarded for pvp in wvw makes no sense what so ever.

Giving players rewards would help remove some of the pay to win imbalance issues, since you would be able to support playing wvw by playing wvw, and not just by credit card. LOL

Wvw Players spend more real cash on the game than anyone else, they deserve some loot too. For some wvw players, wvw is the entire game, as they do nothing else, and would rather play another game instead of being forced into pve. A game mechanic is supposed to be bringing in players, not sending them elsewhere, it needs to be resolved.

WvW is not competitive. It’s pay for siege/transfers/outnumber to win. Rewarding players more would do nothing to help this. To balance WvW you would need to force even numbers. You want competitive, go play PvP.

Where you getting this “Wvw players spend more real cash”? Please site your source.

Caedmon.6798:

Suggestion,get rid of the kittening lag.I dont give a kitten about rewards if the game is unplayable most of the times.

That’s what happens when the game mode is designed in a way to where zerging is the best option.

Lil Devils is right, you’re not making any sense. WvW is per definition competitive. Whether it’s properly balanced is a whole different story, but it has zero to do with the fact that WvW is per definition competitive.

And forcing even numbers isn’t necessary. There are other solutions, such as the ‘Outnumbered’ buff. Granted, the way the buff works right now is absolutely stupid and doesn’t really make any difference, hence I have yet another suggestion:

Suggestion 5: Improve the ‘Outnumbered’ buff

Right now, the ‘Outnumbered’ buff merely gives us a small bonus to exp, wxp and magic find. This is not good enough and doesn’t help evening the odds. I suggest to add ‘+50 to all stats’ to the ‘Outnumbered’ buff. Maybe crank it up to ‘+100 to all stats’ or maybe even ‘+150 to all stats’ if the outnumbered server is severely outnumbered.
On top of that I would like to see a ‘+50% gold rewarded’ buff for being outnumbered as well.

Stander wvw give good rewards as things stand there needs to be a way to use BoH to buy food and 2ed food. Not the strongest type but a scaled down version but just strong enofe to have something to fall back on if your out of gold and at the same time still keep the TP relevant from the wvw comunitly.

An added though:
I still think they need to remove EotM from effectively any thing in the stander wvw BUT add in a reward at the end of the match. So the side that took 1st would get a lot more then 2ed and 3ed. At the same time make it much harder to crate new overflow maps of EotM you should not be able to spam maps till you find one your side is wining on or simply one that is new.

If you want to go as far as making a only EotM wepon skin / armor set you may end up turning EotM into more of an open pvp map then we see in the stander WvW. Imagen ppl trying to win EotM and not just there for loot from fliping things alone.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Lil Devils is right, you’re not making any sense. WvW is per definition competitive. Whether it’s properly balanced is a whole different story, but it has zero to do with the fact that WvW is per definition competitive.

And forcing even numbers isn’t necessary. There are other solutions, such as the ‘Outnumbered’ buff. Granted, the way the buff works right now is absolutely stupid and doesn’t really make any difference, hence I have yet another suggestion:

Suggestion 5: Improve the ‘Outnumbered’ buff

Right now, the ‘Outnumbered’ buff merely gives us a small bonus to exp, wxp and magic find. This is not good enough and doesn’t help evening the odds. I suggest to add ‘+50 to all stats’ to the ‘Outnumbered’ buff. Maybe crank it up to ‘+100 to all stats’ or maybe even ‘+150 to all stats’ if the outnumbered server is severely outnumbered.
On top of that I would like to see a ‘+50% gold rewarded’ buff for being outnumbered as well.

So if I was to go into a 10v1 you would consider that competitive? That sort of massively outnumbered situation happens all the time in WvW. People are trained to outnumber or run. Don’t even fight back, just go run for more friends. So no, I don’t see it as competitive.

So you want to buff players in order to deal with them being outnumbered? +100 stats wouldn’t do much with how much people zerg. If you wanted to do that it would need to be constant and not just when outnumbered (scale with the amount of players on each side). So then a player could just 1 shot people with a backstab/rapid fire/whatever. People will tell others to leave the map so they can keep their large buffs. That seems like a good idea right?

It’s not even that WvW isn’t profitable right now. The only way it wouldn’t be is if you’re paying for top tier food and the siege for the map and your guild/server isn’t helping with the cost of siege. It’s not a-nets fault people decide to do these things. 30 champ bags from a tower/keep plus karma/xp for 30 people (both of which can be turned into gold) plus event gold is worth more than what you put into taking it. Then you also have the heavy bags which are good $ as well.

Again, WvW is PER DEFINITION competitive. You compete with your server against other servers. That means it’s competitive, period.

And if you go in a 1v10 you’re just stupid.

And no I’m not asking for buffs that enables one-shotting people. Just a small buff that can even the odds when our zerg is noticeably outnumbered by the enemy zerg.

And yes me and my guild do pay for top tier food and siege because SOMEONE has to do it. The pugs sure as hell don’t do it and we need it to win so yeah, go figure.

Even if I wouldn’t buy it, I still wouldn’t say WvW is very profitable. I’ve been doing nothing else than WvW today for 3 hours straight and only made about 4g from it. Even in PvP I earn more than that!

I don’t agree with what your definition is of competitive. You can put it in bold + italics + sparkles, it doesn’t change anything. If it’s a blatantly unfair fight, that’s not competitive. With yours, a T1 server going to T5 would still be considered competitive. PvD and rolling over players sure is competitive…

WvW is constantly full of extremely one sided encounters. 10:1 fights happen all the time. What happens if you don’t fight 10:1 on many servers is that all your stuff gets capped over night with zero resistance. Seriously, when was the last time you saw an even fight in WvW? Why do you think most EU servers gave up on PPT so long ago?

You have to pay for top tier food? No… you don’t. Nothing forces you to use food of any kind. Nothing stops you from using food that’s less expensive and 1-2 tiers down. The most common zergling food is lemongrass poultry soup… which is 42s/30m. So just using that for 3 hours costs you 2.5g. You could even just use Poultry and Leek Soup which would drop the cost down to 81s for 3 hours or use other less expensive foods… if you even want to bother using food at all.

You have to pay for superior siege (and I’m reasonably sure that’s just about all you drop)? No… you don’t. You can get basic siege for free with badges. You could just not drop superior siege and ask the pugs to do it when you run out. If they don’t, then oh well. You choose to spend on all of this and let people leech. Nothing is forcing you to.

PvP should earn you more. It takes a lot more skill than WvW (outside of practice which shouldn’t reward anything imo). You’re asking for this outnumber or run PvD stuff to reward as much or more than PvP? No. That’s ridiculous. Be grateful it rewards as much as it does in its current state.

You mean you disagree with the DICTIONARY definition of “competitive”? Lol, okay.

It’s not a matter of opinion. WvW is competitive per dictionary definition, fact. You can “disagree” all you want but that just makes you wrong, lol.

I also don’t get what you’re complaining about. You make it sound like the NA tier 1 matchup is incredibly unfair. This is not true at all. Tier 1 is doing just fine for the most part. I know Tarnished Coast is full with casuals and noobs, but we have a bunch of very good guilds and skilled drivers who make up for the lack of skilled pugs. TC is doing fine.

Sure, tier 1 has a lot of issues, but not the ones you bring up.

As for having to buy top tier food and superior siege; yes I MUST buy those, or accept playing with a handicap. Blackgate and Jadequarry use top tier food and siege, so Tarnished Coast should too. We on TC already are at a disadvantage because of less players and less skilled players, so we need all the food and siege we can get to even the odds. Maybe you don’t like winning, but I do. I play to win.

Yes, I use lemongrass poultry soup, which is the best but also the most expensive food for groups. 2,5g for 3 hours of fun is A LOT of money. Considering I barely make 4g in those 3 hours of WvWing, it means I earned only 1,5g in 3 hours! That’s ridiculously low for the amount of effort I put into WvW.

You might think WvW is all about the PvD, but that just shows me you don’t WvW often during prime time. Join a zerg busting guild like I did. Barely any PvD in that and lots of fights against groups twice your size. It’s super fun!

It’s fine if you think PvP should be more rewarding than WvW, but I think we can all agree that WvW could and maybe should be a bit more rewarding than it is now.

Hey if you find totally outnumbered fights competitive that’s ok, that’s just not me. To compete is “to strive to outdo another” I don’t find doing things in WvW to be outdoing anyone else, thus it’s not competitive.

I’m not complaining, it’s you who are complaining about the rewards. Me not agreeing with you isn’t the same as a complaint lol. I already brought up how people are trained to outnumber or run. PvD vs. little or no resistance when possible and roll over everything. It’s hardly unique to T1. That type of behavior is already rewarded enough

You MUST have top tier food and superior siege uses must like you MUST have that new pair of jeans. Nothing is forcing you to. It’s your desire to have it and your choice to spend your time and resources on it. Saying otherwise is just not taking responsibility for your own choices.

So now you’ve moved onto baseless accusations? I’ve done plenty of zerg busting. I’ve played plenty of prime time WvW. I’m in a large dedicated WvW guild and have been for a long time now. I enjoy WvW, I just have no illusions about what it is. Also… the thing about zerg busting… it does nothing other than boost your ekitten so say you bust a zerg, that little difference you made is easily undone by PvD coverage.

If anything WvW is too rewarding for how it’s played and how imbalanced it is (not just talking about t1, but over all the tiers). There are constant threads about how server X is just farming server Y with their greater numbers. These other servers would also see greater rewards. WvW is already great for karma and skillpoints (through leveling up with constant events). If you’re doing large group fights, then you’re getting a lot of loot bags (even better $ now than before since there are no repair costs). You can walk up to an already downed player, hit them 1-2 times and get loot. If that’s too hard, you can literally just walk into a green circle after other people have killed the npc’s and get rewarded for it. You can get ascended weapon/armor chests and ascended jewelry from WvW. So… no we don’t agree that WvW should be more rewarding than it is now.

Aberrant.6749:

Hey if you find totally outnumbered fights competitive that’s ok, that’s just not me.

Irrelevant and hyperbolic. Tarnished Coast hasn’t had “totally outnumbered fights” for a long time.

Aberrant.6749:

I already brought up how people are trained to outnumber or run. PvD vs. little or no resistance when possible and roll over everything. It’s hardly unique to T1. That type of behavior is already rewarded enough

This is total and complete kitten. What guild are you in? Which guild teaches you to “outnumber or run”?

My guild teaches our players to use proper gear and proper tactics, so we can charge into zergs twice our size and still win. Quite the opposite from what you claim.

And while defending your structures isn’t rewarding at all right now (which needs to change), tier 1 servers still defend their structures more often than not. Unless you’re a little roamer who only caps camps, the whole notion of “PvD gives little to no resistance” is absolute kitten, especially when we’re trying to cap enemy garrisons or keeps.

I don’t know what your definition if “rewarding” is, but it certainly isn’t the same as mine.

Aberrant.6749:

Also… the thing about zerg busting… it does nothing other than boost your ekitten so say you bust a zerg, that little difference you made is easily undone by PvD coverage.

And this to me proves without a shadow of a doubt that you are completely clueless on the tactics and benefits of zerg busting and how WvW really works. You got it completely backwards. Zerg busting actually prevents easy PvD coverage while at the same time giving our server more time to cap stuff without getting zerged down.

Aberrant.6749:

If anything WvW is too rewarding for how it’s played and how imbalanced it is (not just talking about t1, but over all the tiers).

WvW too rewarding? Are you trolling me right now?

Also, don’t pretend you can speak for any other server than Tarnished Coast. You’re not on those other servers, so you can’t possibly judge how things go in other tiers, other than hearsay from other players on that tier.

Aberrant.6749:

There are constant threads about how server X is just farming server Y with their greater numbers. These other servers would also see greater rewards.

So? There are constant threads about everything. Most of them are hyperbolic. In reality I’ve actually seen this “farming server X” happening once, just once, during the Fall Tournament when we got matched up against Maguuma, a tier 6 server.

Aberrant.6749:

WvW is already great for karma and skillpoints (through leveling up with constant events).

You mean EOTM is great for karma and skillpoints. Regular WvW? Not so much.

Aberrant.6749:

If you’re doing large group fights, then you’re getting a lot of loot bags (even better $ now than before since there are no repair costs).

Lots of bags with nothing but worthless junk in it. Not very rewarding and it certainly doesn’t give you “good $”. Like I said, 4g in 3 hours, and that was during a good night. Yeah, doing those large group fights sure made me rich! /sarcasm
Like I said, even the most casual PvE-er makes more than us WvWers by doing a bunch of dungeons at half-speed. The WvW rewards as they are now are ridiculously low.

Aberrant.6749:

You can walk up to an already downed player, hit them 1-2 times and get loot. If that’s too hard, you can literally just walk into a green circle after other people have killed the npc’s and get rewarded for it. You can get ascended weapon/armor chests and ascended jewelry from WvW.

Sure, you can leach from the success of other players, but that isn’t unique to WvW. That’s just how GW2 is in all modes.

And no, you can get ascended weapon/armor chests as loot in WvW. You can only get them from rank up chests, which happens how often? Once per hour in regular WvW? Meanwhile I can casually do some PvE and get ascended weapon/armor chests thrown at me on a regular basis. Why? Why does it have to be like that? Why can’t WvW be equally rewarding as PvE, or at least be more rewarding than it is now?

Aberrant.6749:

So… no we don’t agree that WvW should be more rewarding than it is now.

You’re free to have your opinion and it’s your right to disagree with me, but I’m totally baffled and confused as to how you can think WvW is “too rewarding” and how you’re fine with the absolute lackluster loot and lack of rewards in WvW.

No, not hyperbolic. I’m just not talking about only T1 like you seem to be. There are other tiers you know…

Most guilds on TC/BG/JQ teach people outnumber or run tatics by example at the very least.

No, not clueless. Unless you’re staying up 24/7 doing zerg busting all week you’re not going to be making much of a difference in the overall PPT. Coverage and numbers > skill. Seems more that you have illusions of grandeur… which confirms my point about zerg busting inflating egos.

Not trolling. I’ve played on many servers. It’s not like I’m the only person that I know that plays gw2 and I’ve played on multiple accounts. I’ve been over at friends houses who play on other tiers. Seems more like you can’t even fathom anything beyond T1 even existing.

There is a thread on the first page of this sub forum (it’s directly below this one while I type this response, lol) about people being heavily spawn camped. They are getting farmed. Seeing as you missed even that, I find your statement highly dubious to say the least.

Both EOTM and regular WvW yes. There are constant events for everything. Kill a yak that doesn’t even fight back? Get some get some karma Xp gold Wxp. Walk into a green circle? Get some karma Xp gold Wxp. Kill a single vet mob? karma Xp gold wxp. It’s all over the place all the time.

Sorry you find bags that contain t5/t6/cores/lodestones or kitten each on the TP to be worthless junk. I disagree, so I would be happy to accept all of your “junk” heavy loot bags. <3

Downed players are easier to kill than things in PvE or PvP. In PvE you generally need to kill several things during an event to get credit (there might be some random ones I’m forgetting, I think you might be able to afk for one of the guild missions in a circle?).

So you don’t even include things you get from WvW rank up chests as loot you get from WvW? I don’t even…

You’re probably confused because you seem to think that WvW is something harder and more serious than it is.

Anyways I’ve made my opinion clear. I don’t feel like bumping this thread up anymore.

Aberrant.6749:

No, not hyperbolic. I’m just not talking about only T1 like you seem to be. There are other tiers you know…

Most guilds on TC/BG/JQ teach people outnumber or run tatics by example at the very least.

No, not clueless. Unless you’re staying up 24/7 doing zerg busting all week you’re not going to be making much of a difference in the overall PPT. Coverage and numbers > skill. Seems more that you have illusions of grandeur… which confirms my point about zerg busting inflating egos.

Not trolling. I’ve played on many servers. It’s not like I’m the only person that I know that plays gw2 and I’ve played on multiple accounts. I’ve been over at friends houses who play on other tiers. Seems more like you can’t even fathom anything beyond T1 even existing.

There is a thread on the first page of this sub forum (it’s directly below this one while I type this response, lol) about people being heavily spawn camped. They are getting farmed. Seeing as you missed even that, I find your statement highly dubious to say the least.

Both EOTM and regular WvW yes. There are constant events for everything. Kill a yak that doesn’t even fight back? Get some get some karma Xp gold Wxp. Walk into a green circle? Get some karma Xp gold Wxp. Kill a single vet mob? karma Xp gold wxp. It’s all over the place all the time.

Sorry you find bags that contain t5/t6/cores/lodestones or kitten each on the TP to be worthless junk. I disagree, so I would be happy to accept all of your “junk” heavy loot bags. <3

Downed players are easier to kill than things in PvE or PvP. In PvE you generally need to kill several things during an event to get credit (there might be some random ones I’m forgetting, I think you might be able to afk for one of the guild missions in a circle?).

So you don’t even include things you get from WvW rank up chests as loot you get from WvW? I don’t even…

You’re probably confused because you seem to think that WvW is something harder and more serious than it is.

Anyways I’ve made my opinion clear. I don’t feel like bumping this thread up anymore.

Uhh.. How about NO? Never heard of ANYONE teaching outnumber or run on JQ. Out number or run is not playing the game properly. Instead, they teach actual battlefield strategy and tactics, positioning, proper builds, buffs, skills needed for combat ect..

(However, I think this explains why so many JQ commanders say they should go TC just to teach them how to fight because they are clueless, and we can wipe 40 with 15.. LOL)

I have played on multiple servers, and never did we use blob mentality, that was for the people who don’t know how to play. L2P, then comment on how wvw actually works. NEWSFLASH: WVW IS A FORM OF PVP. I know that may be hard for you to understand, but it is actually pvp, and large scale battles in other games is ALSO pvp and much better rewarded. In other games PVP is highest loot in game, and it should be. Wvw IS PVP and should be rewarded equally. Currently the frequency of the loot in wvw is greatly lacking and should be at least comparable to other games rewards for pvp.

Gameplay imbalances are separate issues and should be addressed individually, but have no bearing on player rewards for wvw pvp.

Jski.6180:

Stander wvw give good rewards as things stand there needs to be a way to use BoH to buy food and 2ed food. Not the strongest type but a scaled down version but just strong enofe to have something to fall back on if your out of gold and at the same time still keep the TP relevant from the wvw comunitly.

An added though:
I still think they need to remove EotM from effectively any thing in the stander wvw BUT add in a reward at the end of the match. So the side that took 1st would get a lot more then 2ed and 3ed. At the same time make it much harder to crate new overflow maps of EotM you should not be able to spam maps till you find one your side is wining on or simply one that is new.

If you want to go as far as making a only EotM wepon skin / armor set you may end up turning EotM into more of an open pvp map then we see in the stander WvW. Imagen ppl trying to win EotM and not just there for loot from fliping things alone.

I think they should be able to buy EVERYTHING used in wvw with Badges though. They can just make the higher tier stuff cost more badges, such as higher tier food, weapons, armor, superior siege, guild siege ect. Just increase the badges according to the value of the item. If they just increase the badges according to the value, I do not see a problem with being able to buy anything used in wvw with wvw currency.

If they wish to improve the number of defenders in wvw, they will have to focus on personal player rewards and individual loot for the defenders, or it will still be too Ktrain focused. The only way I see the help resolve the pay to win issues of wvw is to make wvw self sustaining financially for players. If everyone playing has the ability to earn enough to play wvw in wvw the impact of players dumping their credit cards into wvw on wvw will be less, since it helps even the playing field. Currently players spend a ton in RL $$ paying for scouts to sit in towers, best siege, weapons and armor for guilds, Best food and stones, paying for entire guilds to transfer, running all buffs ( Power vitality toughness ect..) on towers and keeps.

Allowing all wvw players to be able to better afford these things just from playing wvw would reduce the imbalance between those dumping a ton of credit card cash into wvw and those who do not. It helps even out the playing field because everyone could afford the same toys to play with as well, and not just the Credit Card players. right now as it is sometimes you have the situation of one server being equipped like an NFL team and the other server being equipped like a pee wee football team.. that doesn’t make for good gameplay. ( And YEA, I speak from experience, I AM a credit card player, it sure as hell isn’t fair to the other guys how much I spend on this game. I am the one with the advantage here. * LOOKS GLARINGLY OVER AT ANET* Yea, you know how much we blow on this. LOL)

Aberrant.6749:

Most guilds on TC/BG/JQ teach people outnumber or run tatics by example at the very least.

That is complete kitten.

Aberrant.6749:

No, not clueless. Unless you’re staying up 24/7 doing zerg busting all week you’re not going to be making much of a difference in the overall PPT. Coverage and numbers > skill. Seems more that you have illusions of grandeur… which confirms my point about zerg busting inflating egos.

Yes, clueless. Absolutely clueless.
You don’t have to be present 24/7 to make a difference. By your logic you yourself don’t make a difference either. In fact no one makes a difference according to you.

Zerg busting guilds working closely together with the main zerg can make a HUGE difference. Any zerg commander can tell you that. Just ask Of Disco, Prosecute, or Choo. They love us (zerg busting guild) because we give them some breathing room to actually cap stuff without getting blobbed down every 5 seconds.

Aberrant.6749:

Not trolling. I’ve played on many servers. Seems more like you can’t even fathom anything beyond T1 even existing.

Look, I don’t want to turn this into a kittening match, but I’m pretty sure I’ve played on more servers than you have and I know more about WvW than you do.

Aberrant.6749:

There is a thread on the first page of this sub forum (it’s directly below this one while I type this response, lol) about people being heavily spawn camped.

Again, your point? I didn’t miss anything. I’m just not impressed by a thread like that. All I can see in that thread is l2p issues.

Aberrant.6749:

Both EOTM and regular WvW yes.

No, just EOTM.

Aberrant.6749:

There are constant events for everything. Kill a yak that doesn’t even fight back? Get some get some karma Xp gold Wxp. Walk into a green circle? Get some karma Xp gold Wxp. Kill a single vet mob? karma Xp gold wxp. It’s all over the place all the time.

You should become a salesman. You’re quite good at selling something terrible and making something extremely lackluster sound way better than it really is.

The karma, exp, wxp and copper you get for these “constant” events are extremely lackluster. Just look at Stonemist, the biggest, most heavily guarded and most important structure in WvW, capping it gives you…

wait for it….

0g9s80c + 1,700 karma…

WOW, SO REWARDING!

Aberrant.6749:

Sorry you find bags that contain t5/t6/cores/lodestones worthless junk. I disagree, so I would be happy to accept all of your “junk” heavy loot bags.

You mean bags that have a very small chance of dropping t5 mats and an even smaller chance of dropping t6 mats?

Sure. you can have them. I’m not even kidding. That junk I get for 3 hours of raiding in WvW is mere pocket-change in comparison to the buckets of gold I get from casually doing Silverwastes. I won’t even miss it.

Of course I’d rather not do Silverwastes to get my gold. I’d rather just do WvW and actually get rewarded for it properly.

Aberrant.6749:

Downed players are easier to kill than things in PvE or PvP.

No they aren’t. Hitting a mob in PvE and getting credit when it dies is way easier. Downed players fight back, teleport away and their buddies will try to stop your stomp and res the downed guy before you can stomp him. Don’t tell me that’s easier than just mindlessly hitting mobs in PvE and getting rewarded for it.

Aberrant.6749:

So you don’t even include things you get from WvW rank up chests as loot you get from WvW? I don’t even…

Now you’re just making stuff up. I never said that.

Aberrant.6749:

You’re probably confused because you seem to think that WvW is something harder and more serious than it is.

WvW is as hard and as serious as you want it to be. Sure it might seem easy for you if you play the way you suggested earlier (outnumber or run). But if you’re not a coward I can assure you it can be quite hard. Especially when you’re dealing with a situation where you’re outnumbered 3 to 1. I know you and the guilds you play with run from a 3v1 situation, but my guild doesn’t do that. We try to beat them, which can be quite hard and takes serious effort, yes.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Aberrant.6749:

No, not clueless. Unless you’re staying up 24/7 doing zerg busting all week you’re not going to be making much of a difference in the overall PPT. Coverage and numbers > skill. Seems more that you have illusions of grandeur… which confirms my point about zerg busting inflating egos.

Yes, clueless. Absolutely clueless.
You don’t have to be present 24/7 to make a difference. By your logic you yourself don’t make a difference either. In fact no one makes a difference according to you.

Zerg busting guilds working closely together with the main zerg can make a HUGE difference. Any zerg commander can tell you that. Just ask Of Disco, Prosecute, or Choo. They love us (zerg busting guild) because we give them some breathing room to actually cap stuff without getting blobbed down every 5 seconds.

He didn’t say you make zero difference. He said you don’t make much of a difference.

After your zerg-busting guild has gone to bed, if you only have one server left with a zerg running PvD they will flip all of the maps within 1 or 2 hours. Unless you have zerg-busting guilds online 24/7, that PvD will mean far more for PPT than any of your coordinated efforts.

In terms of “difference”, think of it this way: How much PPT do you lose if you lose a primetime player (especially if there is a queue so someone will fill their place) versus a player who plays off-peak? The difference going from 5 to 10 players, or 10 to 20 players, or even 50 to 100 players, is much more than the same difference in raw numbers near or past the population cap. What would the PPT gain be if your guild stopped playing primetime and started playing at an hour when WvW activity was at its lowest?

Didn’t read all the posts, but I still think WvW does not need more rewards. Maybe better drops from killed players, but that’s it.

I don’t want WvW to be turned into an irreversible EoTM karma/loot train. We already got EoTM for those who want rewards and not PvP fights.

That said, I would want to look into ways of making defending more rewarding, but by what we’ve heard from Anet about HoT and the new BL map, that’s the way they want to take WvW too.

Bertrand.3057:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Aberrant.6749:

No, not clueless. Unless you’re staying up 24/7 doing zerg busting all week you’re not going to be making much of a difference in the overall PPT. Coverage and numbers > skill. Seems more that you have illusions of grandeur… which confirms my point about zerg busting inflating egos.

Yes, clueless. Absolutely clueless.
You don’t have to be present 24/7 to make a difference. By your logic you yourself don’t make a difference either. In fact no one makes a difference according to you.

Zerg busting guilds working closely together with the main zerg can make a HUGE difference. Any zerg commander can tell you that. Just ask Of Disco, Prosecute, or Choo. They love us (zerg busting guild) because we give them some breathing room to actually cap stuff without getting blobbed down every 5 seconds.

He didn’t say you make zero difference. He said you don’t make much of a difference.

After your zerg-busting guild has gone to bed, if you only have one server left with a zerg running PvD they will flip all of the maps within 1 or 2 hours. Unless you have zerg-busting guilds online 24/7, that PvD will mean far more for PPT than any of your coordinated efforts.

In terms of “difference”, think of it this way: How much PPT do you lose if you lose a primetime player (especially if there is a queue so someone will fill their place) versus a player who plays off-peak? The difference going from 5 to 10 players, or 10 to 20 players, or even 50 to 100 players, is much more than the same difference in raw numbers near or past the population cap. What would the PPT gain be if your guild stopped playing primetime and started playing at an hour when WvW activity was at its lowest?

Again, that is a server imbalance issue, not a reward issue, adding rewards actually helps bring players in that would be otherwise in the silverwastes farming to get their wvw money. If they didn;t have to leave wvw to go farm to play wvw, you would also have better coverage. However, that isn’t going to solve the problem alone, the problem is there are not enough players for the number of servers present, thus they should either 1) reduce the number of wvw servers or 2) make wvw not attached to servers. Only way to resolve the coverage issue you are bringing up. The coverage issue is separate from the issue of reward though.

Currently only about 6 wvw servers are capable of 24/7 coverage. If the server is organized properly like they are on JQ, the guilds all work together to set times they run so that you have a commander ready to take over when one is ready to leave. On JQ even though we have the numbers to run ques on all maps during NA prime, we do not, and the ques are not bad due to guilds working together and setting their runs at different times. The issue you are discussing is an " age of the game " issue where the game needs to reduce the number of servers as other games do to address the population issues, they are failing to properly maintain the game by not doing so. That is not the same issue however of player rewards being imbalanced for wvw. What you may think is the lowest time on your server, we can be running ques on all maps, that isn’t consistent for all servers, it is due to having too many servers than you have population to support those servers, and not implementing proper population controls.

If they reward players more for player kills AND for defending, you will also see more players doing that instead of Ktrain as well as increase the overall population and coverage. EoTm is a joke and not taken seriously by most players. Implementing player rewards for defending and player killing is the opposite of what EoTM does, and thus it would not work the same.

Did any of you play GW1? The WvW rank, together with the PVP rank should give you another currency(Faction in GW1) you can spent on things. Like the Zaishen keys in GW1 that you could use on the island to open a specific reward chest.
This chest could give you any drop in the game, and cant remember for sure but I think it also had some drops specific for this chest.

aspirine.6852:

Did any of you play GW1? The WvW rank, together with the PVP rank should give you another currency(Faction in GW1) you can spent on things. Like the Zaishen keys in GW1 that you could use on the island to open a specific reward chest.
This chest could give you any drop in the game, and cant remember for sure but I think it also had some drops specific for this chest.

I played GW1, though I think they would have to do more than just that though to resolve the issues with player rewards in wvw. We don’t want wvw turning into an EoTM kTrain, so we ALSO have to make sure the rewards are implemented properly to prevent that from happening. We ALSO need players to be personally rewarded for defending as much if not more than capping, so we have people playing offense and defense more effectively. Those rewards you mentioned would be additional rewards, since wvw uses resources that pve and pvp do not, they also need more access to those resources in wvw.

For example, no one I know uses regular siege because it is considered garbage. It either 1) needs to be made more powerful or 2) give them superior siege instead. Regular arrow carts are probably the most useless item made in the game. Since in order to be able to compete in wvw the players needs access to the resources they use in wvw, and not just the garbage items. maybe also allow them to trade in multiples of regular siege to upgrade to superior or guild siege. wvw players ALSO have to use their own $$ in wvw to upgrade keeps, towers and camps, as well as have multiple sets of equipment/ food depending on what they are doing. You have zerg builds/ roaming builds/ defense builds and people usually carry their equipment on them to switch. It is not as simplified as it is for PVE or PVP, and costs a ton more to play it.

In PVE you make $$ for your time in effort. IN PVP you make $$ for your time in effort. In WVW you spend money, and quite a bit of it for your time and effort. That is the problem here that must be resolved. If you are NOT spending money in wvw you are just leeching off someone who is, it shouldn’t be like that.

Bertrand.3057:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Tom Gore.4035:

As long as the rewards remain way below PvE levels I’m fine with increasing them.

Why should it be way below PvE rewards? In my opinion the PvE players are already a very privileged bunch. They get the most stuff, the most updates, the best rewards and Anet in general caters a lot to the PvE players. PvP got some much needed love as well, but us WvW players are still stuck with the same old maps and an extra pseudo-WvW map used for karma training or leveling alts. On top of that the rewards we get are super lackluster.

Wow, did you even read the post? It has nothing to do with PvE player entitlement, take off your blinders and consider the bigger picture instead of giving a reactionary response based on your own entitlement as a player.

The reason why WvW rewards cannot be carelessly increased is because there is a risk of breaking the game mode if you do so. WvW is less rewarding than PvE partly because opposition from other players makes it impossible to get the maximum amount of rewards.

If you make WvW rewarding enough to be an enticing destination to PvE players, some of them will try to game the system so that they can maximize the rewards. This is exactly what happened in Edge of the Mists, where you now have some groups that are very toxic to anyone who tries to PvP in that zone. By encouraging people whose intent is to blob up and avoid fights, you will ruin the one appeal that WvW has to its core player group, which is diverse and challenging PvP encounters. If you lose these encounters, WvW players will leave the game no matter how generous you make the rewards.

I’m not say WvW rewards should be left as they are, but they can only be increased if the whole system is changed so that zerging and PvD is not the optimal way to earn rewards in WvW.

Regarding your specific suggestions: It doesn’t matter if you make it a reward track system if the reward track is advanced the same way WXP is advanced right now. As well, tournament rewards need to be implemented very carefully because if you just make it rewarding to play on the winning server then you just encourage stacking on a single server.

The problem is what they are giving rewards for and what rewards they are giving, not the player resistance. Highest personal rewards in wvw should be from killing other players. You should get most loot from kills. 2nd most loot should be from defending, 3rd loot from capping. That is the only way to have both offense and defense teams and to prevent the K train like EoTM. Personal player rewards must take precedent over just team rewards. Winning itself is a reward as well, and should have a personal reward as well.

As with most games, PVP rewards should be much greater than PVE rewards, and WVW is a more expensive form of PVP and should be rewarded the highest of them all. In most games with PVP, Player killing gives the most rewards in the game hands down, as you are fighting real players and not AI. WVW and PVP should give more loot than dungeons if implemented properly. It is only " carelessly implemented" if they only give rewards for capping causing an imbalance, and not give enough rewards to compensate for what players spend to play wvwv.. OH wait.. that is what they did in the first place. Solving the imbalance they originally created isn’t carelessly implementing rewards, it is solving the problem that already exists. This is something MANY other games already learned and GW could use what they have already learned on this.

lil devils x.6071:

Jski.6180:

Stander wvw give good rewards as things stand there needs to be a way to use BoH to buy food and 2ed food. Not the strongest type but a scaled down version but just strong enofe to have something to fall back on if your out of gold and at the same time still keep the TP relevant from the wvw comunitly.

An added though:
I still think they need to remove EotM from effectively any thing in the stander wvw BUT add in a reward at the end of the match. So the side that took 1st would get a lot more then 2ed and 3ed. At the same time make it much harder to crate new overflow maps of EotM you should not be able to spam maps till you find one your side is wining on or simply one that is new.

If you want to go as far as making a only EotM wepon skin / armor set you may end up turning EotM into more of an open pvp map then we see in the stander WvW. Imagen ppl trying to win EotM and not just there for loot from fliping things alone.

I think they should be able to buy EVERYTHING used in wvw with Badges though. They can just make the higher tier stuff cost more badges, such as higher tier food, weapons, armor, superior siege, guild siege ect. Just increase the badges according to the value of the item. If they just increase the badges according to the value, I do not see a problem with being able to buy anything used in wvw with wvw currency.

If they wish to improve the number of defenders in wvw, they will have to focus on personal player rewards and individual loot for the defenders, or it will still be too Ktrain focused. The only way I see the help resolve the pay to win issues of wvw is to make wvw self sustaining financially for players. If everyone playing has the ability to earn enough to play wvw in wvw the impact of players dumping their credit cards into wvw on wvw will be less, since it helps even the playing field. Currently players spend a ton in RL $$ paying for scouts to sit in towers, best siege, weapons and armor for guilds, Best food and stones, paying for entire guilds to transfer, running all buffs ( Power vitality toughness ect..) on towers and keeps.

Allowing all wvw players to be able to better afford these things just from playing wvw would reduce the imbalance between those dumping a ton of credit card cash into wvw and those who do not. It helps even out the playing field because everyone could afford the same toys to play with as well, and not just the Credit Card players. right now as it is sometimes you have the situation of one server being equipped like an NFL team and the other server being equipped like a pee wee football team.. that doesn’t make for good gameplay. ( And YEA, I speak from experience, I AM a credit card player, it sure as hell isn’t fair to the other guys how much I spend on this game. I am the one with the advantage here. * LOOKS GLARINGLY OVER AT ANET* Yea, you know how much we blow on this. LOL)

You got to keep the TP relevant still and keep gold worth something allowing ppl to buy every thing with BoH would cause a lot more problems in the long run its best to let BoH get the food one below the best. I am not sure how rune / sigil should work out but if they did let you buy some with BoH (only old ones) they need to be account bound.

I think players need to be reminded that the thread is a general suggestion to the general WvW environment regardless of what server you are from.

WvW Reward track is a plus, PvP has seen increased number of players due to the reward track and I believe WvW reward track will be able to do the same for WvW population. Furthermore, wintersday ultimate gift can be obtained through PvP reward track which again boost the number of players doing PvP and significant number of them continue to do PvP because they found out PvP can be fun. WvW could really use the benefits of reward track.

Jski.6180:

lil devils x.6071:

Jski.6180:

Stander wvw give good rewards as things stand there needs to be a way to use BoH to buy food and 2ed food. Not the strongest type but a scaled down version but just strong enofe to have something to fall back on if your out of gold and at the same time still keep the TP relevant from the wvw comunitly.

An added though:
I still think they need to remove EotM from effectively any thing in the stander wvw BUT add in a reward at the end of the match. So the side that took 1st would get a lot more then 2ed and 3ed. At the same time make it much harder to crate new overflow maps of EotM you should not be able to spam maps till you find one your side is wining on or simply one that is new.

If you want to go as far as making a only EotM wepon skin / armor set you may end up turning EotM into more of an open pvp map then we see in the stander WvW. Imagen ppl trying to win EotM and not just there for loot from fliping things alone.

I think they should be able to buy EVERYTHING used in wvw with Badges though. They can just make the higher tier stuff cost more badges, such as higher tier food, weapons, armor, superior siege, guild siege ect. Just increase the badges according to the value of the item. If they just increase the badges according to the value, I do not see a problem with being able to buy anything used in wvw with wvw currency.

If they wish to improve the number of defenders in wvw, they will have to focus on personal player rewards and individual loot for the defenders, or it will still be too Ktrain focused. The only way I see the help resolve the pay to win issues of wvw is to make wvw self sustaining financially for players. If everyone playing has the ability to earn enough to play wvw in wvw the impact of players dumping their credit cards into wvw on wvw will be less, since it helps even the playing field. Currently players spend a ton in RL $$ paying for scouts to sit in towers, best siege, weapons and armor for guilds, Best food and stones, paying for entire guilds to transfer, running all buffs ( Power vitality toughness ect..) on towers and keeps.

Allowing all wvw players to be able to better afford these things just from playing wvw would reduce the imbalance between those dumping a ton of credit card cash into wvw and those who do not. It helps even out the playing field because everyone could afford the same toys to play with as well, and not just the Credit Card players. right now as it is sometimes you have the situation of one server being equipped like an NFL team and the other server being equipped like a pee wee football team.. that doesn’t make for good gameplay. ( And YEA, I speak from experience, I AM a credit card player, it sure as hell isn’t fair to the other guys how much I spend on this game. I am the one with the advantage here. * LOOKS GLARINGLY OVER AT ANET* Yea, you know how much we blow on this. LOL)

You got to keep the TP relevant still and keep gold worth something allowing ppl to buy every thing with BoH would cause a lot more problems in the long run its best to let BoH get the food one below the best. I am not sure how rune / sigil should work out but if they did let you buy some with BoH (only old ones) they need to be account bound.

What you buy now with BoH isn’t account bound though, you buy regular siege.. you could sell it in the TP and Buy superior siege with it, but regular siege as it is is so worthless it isn’t even a good reward. Since they already have this implemented in the game, I do not see why changing the rewards would be an issue. Unless they invent a currency just for wvw ( not obtainable in EoTM) to buy stuff for wvw I am not seeing why they should not just reward wvw players accordingly. If they limit the wvw rewards to those who actually play wvw, they are not going to dumping them on the market because they are going to spend them in wvw instead.

Also, somehow I think the WvW development team (if there are any) are too focused in thinking that WvW need better maps to be better but in reality, WvW simply lack features that attract players to play or fix the imbalance of WvW.

Just take a look at PvP, features change to the reward and queue system dramatically changed the population of PvP.

lil devils x.6071:

Jski.6180:

lil devils x.6071:

Jski.6180:

Stander wvw give good rewards as things stand there needs to be a way to use BoH to buy food and 2ed food. Not the strongest type but a scaled down version but just strong enofe to have something to fall back on if your out of gold and at the same time still keep the TP relevant from the wvw comunitly.

An added though:
I still think they need to remove EotM from effectively any thing in the stander wvw BUT add in a reward at the end of the match. So the side that took 1st would get a lot more then 2ed and 3ed. At the same time make it much harder to crate new overflow maps of EotM you should not be able to spam maps till you find one your side is wining on or simply one that is new.

If you want to go as far as making a only EotM wepon skin / armor set you may end up turning EotM into more of an open pvp map then we see in the stander WvW. Imagen ppl trying to win EotM and not just there for loot from fliping things alone.

I think they should be able to buy EVERYTHING used in wvw with Badges though. They can just make the higher tier stuff cost more badges, such as higher tier food, weapons, armor, superior siege, guild siege ect. Just increase the badges according to the value of the item. If they just increase the badges according to the value, I do not see a problem with being able to buy anything used in wvw with wvw currency.

If they wish to improve the number of defenders in wvw, they will have to focus on personal player rewards and individual loot for the defenders, or it will still be too Ktrain focused. The only way I see the help resolve the pay to win issues of wvw is to make wvw self sustaining financially for players. If everyone playing has the ability to earn enough to play wvw in wvw the impact of players dumping their credit cards into wvw on wvw will be less, since it helps even the playing field. Currently players spend a ton in RL $$ paying for scouts to sit in towers, best siege, weapons and armor for guilds, Best food and stones, paying for entire guilds to transfer, running all buffs ( Power vitality toughness ect..) on towers and keeps.

Allowing all wvw players to be able to better afford these things just from playing wvw would reduce the imbalance between those dumping a ton of credit card cash into wvw and those who do not. It helps even out the playing field because everyone could afford the same toys to play with as well, and not just the Credit Card players. right now as it is sometimes you have the situation of one server being equipped like an NFL team and the other server being equipped like a pee wee football team.. that doesn’t make for good gameplay. ( And YEA, I speak from experience, I AM a credit card player, it sure as hell isn’t fair to the other guys how much I spend on this game. I am the one with the advantage here. * LOOKS GLARINGLY OVER AT ANET* Yea, you know how much we blow on this. LOL)

You got to keep the TP relevant still and keep gold worth something allowing ppl to buy every thing with BoH would cause a lot more problems in the long run its best to let BoH get the food one below the best. I am not sure how rune / sigil should work out but if they did let you buy some with BoH (only old ones) they need to be account bound.

What you buy now with BoH isn’t account bound though, you buy regular siege.. you could sell it in the TP and Buy superior siege with it, but regular siege as it is is so worthless it isn’t even a good reward. Since they already have this implemented in the game, I do not see why changing the rewards would be an issue. Unless they invent a currency just for wvw ( not obtainable in EoTM) to buy stuff for wvw I am not seeing why they should not just reward wvw players accordingly. If they limit the wvw rewards to those who actually play wvw, they are not going to dumping them on the market because they are going to spend them in wvw instead.

Well you kind of gave the example of why you should not be able to buy every thing with BoH because the price tanks on though items and they become mostly free and not crafted as much but bought only. My though is to have the T5 (or T4 i am not sure what is the cap atm) version of food and down from BoH a version of the food that you cant sell. It will keep T6 (or T5) crafting relevant. Kind of a well at least you can afored lesser food vs not using food at all.

SkyShroud.2865:

Also, somehow I think the WvW development team (if there are any) are too focused in thinking that WvW need better maps to be better but in reality, WvW simply lack features that attract players to play or fix the imbalance of WvW.

Just take a look at PvP, features change to the reward and queue system dramatically changed the population of PvP.

Yeah. PvP is now full of PvErs wanting to finish their daily quickly so they can go back to PvE, resulting in people whining “please let me win this round, I really need my daily” in chat.

That’s what we need in WvW, right? PvE rewards that are lucrative enough so that PvErs start massing there and crying you should help them to get the rewards so they could leave as quickly as possible?

Open your eyes and look at EotM! That is exactly the thing that happens when you put enough rewards into WvW to make it lucrative for PvErs. Do you really want that to happen to WvW, too? Because it will, if you keep wanting for WvW reward tracks with PvE rewards inside.