Guild Wars 2

Hi all,

I have been thoroughly enjoying the current Living Story content and in particular the WvW like events in the Silverwastes. I have always been a fan of the WvW game type but often struggle to get motivated to play it. The reason for that is a lack of enjoyable things to do there. Once you take a few camps, kill a few dollies and run with the zerg for a bit, the content can quickly grow stale. However, after playing in the Silverwastes it got me thinking on how these ideas could be used to improve WvW. It may be that Anet has already thought of this and are using the Silverwastes as a testing ground. But whether they are or not I feel it is worth suggesting anyway, on the off chance it hasn’t been considered. Also, I thought it would be a good place to start a thread of ideas on this subject, for players to try to find ways to improve a game type that needs attention and could be made great.

WvW is supposed to be PvEvP, but 99% of it is PvDvP. The only enjoyable PvE content we have currently is taking supply camps (either solo or in a very small group), taking sentries and stopping enemy Dolyaks. But for many this is not enough, and it does very little to resolve other issues that currently exist in WvW (such as players not defending towers, camps and Dolyaks). We really need some more PvE events in WvW and Silverwastes has shown us what can be possible. We have more PvE events in EotM and because of that it has a more interesting dynamic, but even there there is room for improvement.

In my opinion we need more PvE content in the main WvW maps and here are some event ideas (mostly inspired by the Silverwastes content) that I think would be great in WvW:

Dolyak Loading Event
Currently the Dolyak spawns and slowly plods to it’s destination. It’s boring and does very little to encourage player participation. Now imagine the following: The Dolyak spawns immediately, but must first be loaded with supply. An event triggers and an NPC starts to load the Dolyak (emulating the normal spawn timer). However, players can assist in loading the Dolyak to speed up the process, getting the Dolyak out of the camp quicker. This would provide a way for players to actively increase the productivity of the supply chain beyond simply defending the Dolyaks.

Dolyak Escort Event
Once the Dolyak has been loaded with supply it starts its journey,much like it does currently. However, to encourage player participation two things happen. Firstly, due to the encouragement of having a stronger escort (i.e.: there are allied players present), the Dolyak (and if applicable the guards too) move noticably faster (maybe permanent swiftness boost?). Also, along the Dolyaks path (must like in other PvE escort events) there is a high chance that mobs will spawn to attack the Dolyak.

Dolyaks currently, if left alone by enemy players, will generally get to their destinations. However, if there was a high risk they will be stopped then it would encourage (and reward) small groups of players to stay with and defend their supply chains.

Local Resource Gathering Event
With the above event there is a high risk of supply chains stopping completely if left unattended by players, and during off-peak times or on low population worlds this could cause an unfair imbalance. So, when a tower/keep has been without supply for a while (maybe triggers if it’s intended Dolyak is killed?), and the tower is not currently under attack, an event can trigger where players can gather materials (rubble, wood, etc) to use as makeshift supply. This slowly increases the supply of the tower the longer the event continues.

To ensure this is not used as the better method of gaining supply the event could produce less supply than if a Dolyak had dropped it off, or in the same time it would take a Dolyak to spawn, load and deliver it’s supply. This would need some tweaking and balancing to ensure it did not get abused, but it could potentially encourage and reward players to stay and defend towers. The most efficient method of gaining supply would remain the Dolyaks, but this would offer a means of some minor self sufficiency for the towers and keeps, for when supply dries out, without it offering endless supply when the tower is being attacked.

Monster Attack Events
Another way Anet could encourage (and reward) players to defend towers/keeps is to trigger events where monsters attack them. The monsters could spawn randomly or when there has been no enemy presence for some time. It could also be used to create a reason to upgrade towers and keeps with more guards. For example, an upgraded tower would be able to repel the monster attacks, while a normal tower would not.

Continues in next post…

Player Assisted Upgrade Events
Another way to get players to defend towers is to change/tweak the way upgrades work. Whenever a player starts an upgrade an event triggers where an NPC starts to build the upgrade, much as it does now. However, similar to the Local Resource Gathering Events listed above, players can assist the NPC to speed up the upgrade process. This could be more gathering of materials from the local area or it could be some kind of new minigame where players help to build the upgrade. Either way it will provide a reason for players to stay at towers and givens the opportunity to reward them in the process.

Player Triggered NPC Events
As well as standard upgrades players could trigger an NPC, that is able to sneak into enemy towers and steal supply or destroy siege if it’s target tower is left undefended by players. The event could involve recruiting a nearby allied NPC, by testing thier skills in combat, or via some other mini game. Once an NPC is found it is sent to an AI/player chosen tower to perform its AI/player chosen task.

Not only will this provide more incentive for players (and an opportunity to reward them) to stay and complete events at the towers/keeps/camps, but it would also give a reason for enemy players to have people defending their towers/keeps/camps.

I’m sure there could be other PvE events Anet could add to WvW. The point is, WvW is supposed to be a good mix of both elements (PvP and PvE), but is currently lacking on the PvE side. I feel that more PvE events would spice up the game and make things more interesting, while at the same time giving players a reason to participate in areas of WvW that are currently neglected (i.e:- defending locations, escorting Dolyaks, etc).

Hardly anyone defends towers and Dolyaks because there is little reason or reward for doing so. It is also somewhat boring just sitting there doing nothing while waiting for enemies to arrive. By throwing in PvE events, players will have something to do while they wait and at the same time get rewarded for doing so.

Anyway, what do you think? Do you think more PvE would make WvW a better place? I personally think it would encourage more PvE oriented players to join in, which would be a good thing in my opinion. What other PvE events do you think could improve WvW?

Whatever your thoughts and ideas, please keep it constructive and keep it civil. If we want Anet to listen to us we need to make it easy for them to read what we have to say. The harder it is to filter out the non-constructive and disruptive posts the less likely Anet will be able to understand and react to our feedback.

So please… play nice. And thanks for reading (if you got this far ).

Does no one else feel WvW could use more PvE elements? I know the ‘hardcore’ PvP players couldn’t care less about this, but surely I’m not the only player who enjoys a mix of both PvP and PvE?

Does anyone else have any ideas on how to improve WvW? I see a lot of complaints but only a few people take the time to try to come up with solutions. Maybe my suggestions have potential problems. If so then by all means point them out. Or perhaps you can think of better solutions? If all we do is complain and request fixes how can we expect Anet to know what we want?

Anet said that WvW was supposed to be a game type comprising of PvP and PvE, but both of those aspects need improvements. PvP needs more flow control and PvE needs more variety and importance. As WvW currently stands I feel players on both sides of the PvP/PvE fence are not happy. There are plenty of suggestion threads from PvP oriented players, but not that many from PvE oriented players. So if you’d like some more PvE in WvW, to make it a place you would enjoy playing in, then speak up and give some feedback.

Plz stop insulting WvW players were already down in the mud under the rock whit no hope anywhere.

PVE won’t solve anything to us just makes it worse.

One of the most important factors in a PvP game is flow. If the game doesn’t have good flow it will not be fun to play and various problems can arise. PvE content is not just something to give players to do, it can also be a tool to control the flow of the PvP.

Flow is not a magic plaster to fix all WvW ills but it can help a great deal, and I believe PvE content can be used to help improve that flow and at the same time encourage more players to take part in WvW.

But if all you want to do is complain and feel sorry for yourself, there are a ton of other threads to keep you happy. Please at least try to explain why you think PvE will make things worse. And if you can’t be bothered, why even waste your time and mine posting pointless messages?

For most WvW players, the fun part isn’t the PvE content, nor do I think it likely that adding PvE content will do much for us, excitement-wise. The fun part of WvW is fighting things that think just like I do -and that’s something that PvE content can’t replicate. The one good thing that could come out of this is that more PvE-only folks will try out WvW and realize that they actually like it, so I wouldn’t mind seeing your ideas implemented. :-)

No. We don’t want pve in wvw, we want variation and some realistic returns and objectives.

There is already solution to Expansion pack what includes 4 new maps, point system, GvG system, ranks more rewarding and new siege.
Im sure like 50000 ppl would buy that instantly and that’s only from EU side and only wvw players. Pretty sure most PVE or SPvP player would buy t any way. It would be huge profit for game.
20 euros for such thing will go like " SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY"
And it would resolve wvw problem for 2 years again.

Dhampyr.2104:

…The one good thing that could come out of this is that more PvE-only folks will try out WvW and realize that they actually like it, so I wouldn’t mind seeing your ideas implemented. :-)

That is part of the reason for suggesting more PvE content. But like I say, I also feel it can be used to improve flow. And by flow I mean the directing of players around the map, to encourage players to be in the best locations so as to get the most out of the PvP aspect of WvW.

The fact remains that Anet said WvW is supposed to be both PvP and PvE. It is supposed to appeal to both player types, to get them all together working for the same goal, helping your world defeat the other worlds. But as the game currently stands the PvE aspect is severely lacking and doesn’t really do much to help this game mode.

I do agree with you, xGraver, we do need things like more siege, GvG systems, a better rank rewards, etc. But I feel these are only small fixes and do not address the overall problem with WvW, flow. At the moment the most efficient flow is to run from tower to tower to keep, easily wiping out the insignificant NPCs and doors, constantly flipping towers. They introduced the siege disabler, to try to change the flow of the game, but it was not enough. Adding extra siege and rewards will only go so far. A more effective way to improve flow would be to try to direct players to each other. Encourage forces to clash more often. Make key points worth defending. And give players not so oriented on PvP some way to contribute.

I also agree with you, Balrick, we do need more variety. But what vatiety do you suggest? What other objectives would you like to see? Do you want WvW to only be available to PvP players? Why not allow PvE players to enjoy it and help the war effort in some way?

I understand that currently most players in WvW are PvP oriented, and may not think adding PvE content is worthwhile. But that is mainly because there is very little in WvW to keep PvE players interested. Anet can try to force them to go there (world complete, legendary weapons), but if they do not enjoy the actual content there, why would they stay?

By adding more PvE content Anet will encourage more players to take part in WvW and, if they are clever with it, they can use it to improve the flow of the map and make clashes between groups of players occur on a more regular basis, and potentially make WvW more fun. Yes, we do need more PvP content, more objectives, more PvP systems, but I also believe we need more PvE content too, and do not think it should be so lightly dismissed by players, or forgotten by Anet.

But maybe I am alone in that opinion.

I think the title of this thread is going to attract a lot of hostility and trolls that don’t actually read your post. That said, I think some of the ideas are nice and would make WvW more interesting.

One thing I’m not a huge fan of is more PvE creatures engaging in attacks in WvW. This is mostly because of how one Guard can rally an entire army when it dies.

I think some people have a bad impression of “adding more PvE to my WvW.” I think when done correctly, adding more PvE elements is not a bad thing. League of Legends which is a PvP game has some PvE elements like creeps and jungle creatures. It’s really about how they fit with the game.

xGraver.4918:

Plz stop insulting WvW players were already down in the mud under the rock whit no hope anywhere.

PVE won’t solve anything to us just makes it worse.

So you just want to open field brawl, no need for tower caps, smc holds, supply chains, siege weapons, wps, points per tick, hell we won’t even need WvW just an open field. While the loot from the Supervisors, and Lords are nice, it gets pretty stale after about 50 sentry, camp, tower and smc caps.

One of the most fun I had was defending… actual first of all capping an opposing worlds EB keep, pushing them back to their BL WP area. Then protecting the Keep Lord, healing him, stealthing etc… for a full 3 and a half Defend timer events after both gates were down, while being out numbered at least 2 or 3 to 1.

Now imagine if there was an event to “Bring in or port in the Cavalry” but you have to run back or wp back to your keep to buy the Cavalry for say 1k badges or 2g and the smc lord or keep lord equivalent champ and his squad of 2 t3 dolyaks and 10 t3 vets will arrive within 30-45 secs. If he arrives after the keep has fallen then he would then then unpack his sieges and try to get the keep back.

Now as an attacker trying to get your keep back, you would be alerted of this event. You would have some decisions to make 1. try to beat the cavalry n get the keep back before they get there. Then try to destroy the cavalry. 2. Start the timer on their keep hopefully you did it before everything started. 3. Intercept and crush the cavalry before they can get to the keep… options options

Oh I forgot one more option, you can do what most of the zergers do now… see ONE mob and run after it like a Donkey running after a carrot on a stick n get caught in a trap.

This is WvW not MEvW… team play is part of the big picture and the enjoyment of the game. If you guys wanna toss a yo yo back and forth in the middle of nowhere then go PvP, at least then you can get a decent reward for chasing that ONE flea for 2 minutes halfway across the map. That team play applies to the NPCs that populate the map to. You don’t want to be on the receiving end of 3 vet frogys simultaneous barrage of poison darts and leap stomps. The Keep and Castle Lords if you protect them well they are great dpsers and tanks, same goes for their guards that surround them.

Theres nothing like seeing 2 screen full of red name tags on either side as you ready to converge and become one gigantic zerg thats about to crush your might as well not be there and definitely not worth the resources to upgrade cause it’ll only slow them down what 2 secs T3 walls, as you and your zerg goes out to defend smc. What do you do? Bust a U-Turn with your tail between you legs and watch on the walls as they catapult the kitten out of your walls or charge full steam ahead and cut them off in the middle while some of your zerg swings to the side of them n close in on them break their momentum and scatter them to the winds. Yes you will die but this is just a game, hopefully you disoriented them long enough that they didn’t know to start the timer on smc so you can wp right back n get on a cannon or trebs and really give it to them or come right back to the front line to claim another 5-10 ears.

-HAPPIETHYME Here, TRUE STORY but it was more like 30 ears…

As far as I’m concerned they should penalize big zergs after a certain amount of players lets say 10-15 are met any extra players that are in that commanders squad that puts in a hit will reflect negatively on the entire zerg / squad and reduce their loot and experience gained. LET THE CRYING BEGIN….!

Nokaru.7831:

I think the title of this thread is going to attract a lot of hostility and trolls that don’t actually read your post. That said, I think some of the ideas are nice and would make WvW more interesting.

One thing I’m not a huge fan of is more PvE creatures engaging in attacks in WvW. This is mostly because of how one Guard can rally an entire army when it dies.

I think some people have a bad impression of “adding more PvE to my WvW.” I think when done correctly, adding more PvE elements is not a bad thing. League of Legends which is a PvP game has some PvE elements like creeps and jungle creatures. It’s really about how they fit with the game.

I agree, a lot of players will have an automatic negative response to PvE content and cannot imagine it having any function or benefit to the PvP. But like you say, if it is done right it can have a huge and positive effect on WvW. At the end of the day all systems need to be tweaked and balanced.

I’m not suggesting that PvE content should be the only stuff Anet adds. We do need more PvP objectives and systems introduced. But PvE content shouldn’t be brushed aside like it doesn’t belong. At the end of the day PvE content is simply another method of adding in mechanics and systems to work in conjunction with the PvP systems.

I am not suggesting that PvE content should be isolated and seperated from PvP content. Quite the opposite, I feel it should be integrated with PvP systems to encourage various types of play and to control the flow of the game. And as an added bonus it will give PvE oriented players a reason to start playing WvW more and getting them invested in their world’s success.

It is very possible that some skilled PvE players would be very capable in PvP, but avoid WvW because there is simply not enough for them to do there. By adding more variety to the PvE, and by carefully integrating it with the PvP, both PvE and PvP players would be able to participate and may even cross over and enjoy a part of the game they never thought they would.

I really cannot emphasise enough how useful PvE could be in controlling flow. It’s all very well adjusting points here and there or adding a new siege item, but if there is no way to mix things up and make WvW more dynamic, things will continue to go stale after a while. PvE content (such as player triggered and random dynamic events) could not only help the flow but can be used to change a stagnant game and make things more interesting.

I mean, WvW is not just groups of players getting together and fighting each other is it? There are already PvE elements to the game (siege weapons, towers, sentries, camps, dolyaks, etc), but they are not enough and often get stale very quickly. We need more objectives, but how can there be more WvW objectives without some form of PvE?

Maybe the wording of the title is poor, in some peoples minds, but WvW players need to get over the stigma of PvE being bad, and understand that there is much more to WvW than PvP.

This thread insults me alot.

The OP want to change me on some AI.

Or i will start MU thread here.

If i go to some pvp mode i don’t want to have another build “just to kill that guard”.

If i would like to do pve mostly i would go to PVE, dungeuon, ls event or whatever else is out.

I mean, WvW is not just groups of players getting together and fighting each other is it?

IT IS!

Hvaran.6327:

This thread insults me alot.

The OP want to change me on some AI.

Or i will start MU thread here.

If i go to some pvp mode i don’t want to have another build “just to kill that guard”.

If i would like to do pve mostly i would go to PVE, dungeuon, ls event or whatever else is out.

I mean, WvW is not just groups of players getting together and fighting each other is it?

IT IS!

Firstly, Anet themselves said WvW was supposed to be a mix of PvP AND PvE, not just PvP.

Secondly, when you get in a siege weapon and attack a door, or when you attack an NPC to take a tower or camp are you fighting another player? No, you’re fighting the environment or an AI mob. Do you change your build to do these things? You might do, but I imagine most WvW players do not.

Thirdly, I find mobs very easy to fight with the same build I use to defeat other players. Most mobs in WvW are a heck of a lot easier to fight than players, and if your build can defeat players you really shouldn’t have too much trouble fighting the AI. I cannot imagine many veteran WvW players changing their builds (beyond a couple of utility skill swaps) just to help take a tower or camp. The only players who might change their build drastically are roamers who solo camps, stop supply chains, etc. And even they are generally capable of taking on players with those builds.

WvW is a PvPvE mode, not just PvP and not just PvE. If you think it is just PvP then you are not doing everything there is to do in WvW. You are not capping towers or taking camps or stopping supply lines or doing anything that other than simply fighting players. If all you want to do is fight players then we have sPvP for that (thought that too needs improvement). WvW is supposed to be a mixed game mode, according to what Anet intended it to be.

I didn’t intend to offend or insult anyone, but to be honest if you find this thread insulting you must be very sensative. I do not see how any of the suggestions I made would prevent you from being able to fight other players.

Man for real wake up and read again.

Your secondly thridly you should stick in your chocohole. Mobs are easy there, let it be like that. Everyone is fine about it. IT"S YOU WHO wanted players to adapt to kill mobs or how u said “find ways”.

sPVP is not about fighting players. AT ALL. U CAP POINTS THERE AS MAIN. In wvw u can forget about ppt and mobs and never care of it and still noone will have problems with you.

I don’t care about reading your suggestion, devs should not either. I read diagonaly all your wall of text. You got big ambitions but “honestly mate, you know nothing of this gaem”.

You want them to waste their time on this? For real? They got enough distracted by threads like this one. But you seems to have some brains instead of other topic starters, just think more globaly, please. I’m done here.

Lolnein
No more pve. Give the players some reason to play and enjoy the full maps

Seriously folks, it’s not difficult to have a discussion without belittling someone. You can do this!

WHY no more PvE? WHY shouldn’t they waste their time on it. And no, ‘because you don’t like it’ is not a good reason.

How can they add reasons to do things in WvW without adding some form of PvE? Why shouldn’t they waste time on PvE if it has the potential to improve the game?

I want the PvP to be better, just as much as you guys, but I understand that WvW is not just about PvP. Or at least I understand it is not intended to just be about PvP. I for one enjoy both types of content. And in my opinion both types of content are lacking. Part of the reason for that lacking in enjoyment is down to the flow of the game in my opinion, and PvE can be used to great effect in that regard.

Rin.1046:

Seriously folks, it’s not difficult to have a discussion without belittling someone. You can do this!

WHY no more PvE? WHY shouldn’t they waste their time on it. And no, ‘because you don’t like it’ is not a good reason.

How can they add reasons to do things in WvW without adding some form of PvE? Why shouldn’t they waste time on PvE if it has the potential to improve the game?

I want the PvP to be better, just as much as you guys, but I understand that WvW is not just about PvP. Or at least I understand it is not intended to just be about PvP.

WvW means World versus World versus World, or 3 servers fighting each other. Yes it does have Player versus Environment content in the form of npc supervised areas and destructible environments, but it is fundamentally competitive gameplay that is Player versus Player on a grander scale.

Rin.1046:

I for one enjoy both types of content. And in my opinion both types of content are lacking. Part of the reason for that lacking in enjoyment is down to the flow of the game in my opinion, and PvE can be used to great effect in that regard.

In a way it is because of the flow of the game, or lack there of. WvW has become stagnant. EotM was realeased back on February 4th 2014. After this, WvW went into it’s Spring Tournament and we received no new content for over half a year until the September 2014 Feature Patch. In that patch we only got Golem Mastery, Siege Disablers, and a hastily changed Accountbound Commander Tags to allow all the colors. So in all, we are just a few months away from a year of little to no new WvW content.

But the answer, however, isn’t PvE content. Stuff like what you’re suggesting will draw people to WvW but they’ll enviably drop off and WvW will be in the same state it is in now. We need stuff that keeps people’s interests in WvW for long term. Things like variety, gains, and prestige. Adding factors of a matchup that changes week to week to make people think about what to do to counter this weeks change to break monotony, adding more rewards and potential to make profit so people don’t have to go off to dungeons to make money for siege or to get the runes they need, and giving people WvW specific things they can work towards and actually be able to show off but are still within reasonable limits of attaining. Those are the things that could really make WvW more lively.

Hopping in late on this.

I think Rin does no really want more PvE events, but actually more tactical variety on the battlefield, especially for the more defensive player (dolly escort, camp upgrader, scout etc), which right now is completely unrewarding to spend your time on.

If I would take the time to search the WvW forum, I am sure I will find countless ideas for small additions that are following that concept (e.g. upgrades to sentries, so they can take down a dolly alone, moats, watch towers, the comeback of Orbs, skills to make people unable to rally of wildlife etc.; GvG areas)

In the end it all boils down to the general lack of vision for WvW and the disconnect the WvW veterans feel when they read the “scarce” posts by devs about the game type here on the forums (e.g. the removal of white swords).

I don’t care for PvE, however your post mixing it to speed builds up for upgrades on towers, ect.. is interesting. However I have a few things to ask/comment on.

How likely is it you will see people participating in said events to speed NPC’s up, while the rest are fighting/defending?

An event to speed the Dolyak is nice for PvE, however as it is in game you can rally around a Dolyak and speed them up, to make then run quicker to the towers/keeps. (Without it being an event. Also when you were rewarded for escorting a Dolyak without having to defend it, players severely abused the system.) You do still gain rewards on defending a Dolyak if it’s attacked and you fight. (NPC or player.) However not for the times of escorting without being attacked.

As for the Monster attacks, and I whole heartedly against that idea. Some server have issues maintaining the towers/keeps as is, there is no reason to add PvE monsters into the game which will attack locations further. It will boost only the side which has the numbers to defend with, while lessening the side who is barely holding on as is.

For the gathering event, I am not sure how I feel about that. On one hand it seems like a good idea, however from being a WvW player and remembering the time Candy corn was mainly farmable in WvW during the 1st Halloween, I would never want to ever see any type of Gathering event in WvW in my life. True some would like it, however the majority of organized WvW would be hindered due to many players coming in to do nothing but gather items. Now if it is while an objective is being attacked only, that is not a good idea either, due to pulling away people which would be needed to defend the objective and more than not, I would think it would lead to the objective being lost to the attackers.

Player assisted upgrade:
If players could help build upgrades it would be nice. However not by normal means, due to the fact it would be abused in game. The Gathering idea could work for this, however it would need to be modified that every 5-10 minutes you would need to speak to xxx npc, and have that NPC change to different ones in the tower/keep to avoid bot abuse.

I am against the Player Spawned NPC events. Once again it would give an advantage to those who have numbers in WvW while a disadvantage to those outmanned.

The minority of pvp purests will hate this idea.

However the op is right and it would bring more players to wvw as well as strenghten the social aspect.

But it would no long hold my interest.

Rin.1046:

Hvaran.6327:

This thread insults me alot.

The OP want to change me on some AI.

Or i will start MU thread here.

If i go to some pvp mode i don’t want to have another build “just to kill that guard”.

If i would like to do pve mostly i would go to PVE, dungeuon, ls event or whatever else is out.

I mean, WvW is not just groups of players getting together and fighting each other is it?

IT IS!

Firstly, Anet themselves said WvW was supposed to be a mix of PvP AND PvE, not just PvP.

Yea… But Anet also said things about manifesto’s, fully geared by level 80, and scavenger hunts for precursors.
This is the first promise I think the bulk of the community effected would be Ok with if it were broken.

I like your recognition of what’s wrong with WvW (too much PvD). I like how you have some ideas and you’ve articulated them. I like how you’ve caught onto the fact that some of the ideas behind Silverwastes might work in WvW. I like how you’ve responded to the trolls.

I do think you need to do a better job of explaining why you think these changes should be made. Saying that it’ll “spice up the game” isn’t convincing, what will add variety for WvW players will be more work on balance and introducing new types of gear/food/skills. Unfortunately that’s a different department. If what it does is bring in PvE players interested in doing PvE, you’re going to get a whole lot of objection.

• NPC/Monster Events: You’ve suggested this as a way to encourage players to stick around and defend. Either this is a big event, which pulls in PvE players, or it’s a non-event which no one cares about. I worry that a big event just means players taking up slots waiting around for an event and not contributing to real-time needs.

• Resource gathering/upgrade/dolyak loading: These look to me like busywork that will help monitor when players are scouting. Honestly, a lot of people who defensively scout are usually giving far less than 100% of their attention, so making them do something menial isn’t necessarily rewarding. Maybe if they proceed with removing automatic white swords there can be a first flag reward that a player gets if they light the beacon. Give them a chest if there’s a big fight afterwards. There could also be secondary upgrade events that speed up the process but are vulnerable to attack, like a bit of scaffolding on the outside of the wall. This would encourage small groups to make attacks on bigger objectives even if they can’t capture them, while encouraging defenders by giving them an opponent to fight.

• Dolyak escort: I absolutely agree that this is a part of WvW that needs work, it’s so crucial and it has potential to encourage more open-field confrontations. I think you’re suggesting something like a circle around the yak, where if players walk in it they speed up the yak? This could be good. I also think that a defend the caravan event actually needs to be… defensible. Dolyaks are way too easy to kill. It’s been suggested before to make a dolyak invulnerable until its NPC guards are killed. We could also have an actual caravan of yaks so that there’s a chance for partial success/failure.

Glad to see someone willing to suggest and discuss ideas.

Mishi.7058:

As for the Monster attacks, and I whole heartedly against that idea. Some server have issues maintaining the towers/keeps as is, there is no reason to add PvE monsters into the game which will attack locations further. It will boost only the side which has the numbers to defend with, while lessening the side who is barely holding on as is.

If one server is dominating it will own more territory but would also have to spread out to defend said territory from those monsters, right? Thus thinning their numbers for the weaker servers(who likely would be in the fewer structures they have remaining) to fight against. Although that would depend on how strong the monsters are, but if one server just zerged around and didn’t have anybody else anywhere I’d have no problem if unchecked monsters destroyed their tower walls and such for a small man of the weaker sides to walk in :P

What wvw needs is a complete overhaul, with new maps, new mechanics and ways to force blobs to be less effective, as well as a huge increase in rewards. The one thing that would put the nail in the coffin for wvw regulars is filling it with pve rubbish.

I haven’t set foot in wvw this week since LS came out, due to the rewards for just walking around the map opening up bandit chests and getting event rewards for hitting one mob on the way past, then huge piles of loot from the bags and rewards, etc.

Baldrick.8967:

What wvw needs is a complete overhaul, with new maps, new mechanics and ways to force blobs to be less effective, as well as a huge increase in rewards. The one thing that would put the nail in the coffin for wvw regulars is filling it with pve rubbish.

I think the OP is trying to come up with specific ways to make blobs less effective, even if I don’t agree that they’ll all work that well. Do you have any specific suggestions?

We got a new map with new mechanics, it’s called Edge of the Mists. If we want something better than that (which I think we do), it will help to be a lot less vague about what will improve WvW.

Thanks to those who have been constructive in their feedback, it is great to see.

I have edited the title, as people are getting fixated on the term PvE and missing the main purpose of the suggestions. The main goal of these events is to achieve two things: 1) To encourage more players into WvW by providing more things to do and more incentives to do them (to improve the PvE aspect for players that like that content), and 2) To spread out the player base a bit more in an attempt to increase the frequency in which players clash with each other (improving the the PvP aspect).

I agree that my suggestions need work. But the point was to find ideas to improve the flow of WvW. Offering rewards is one way to encourage play in other areas, but the problem with only using rewards is that most people will find the easiest and fastest way to gain rewards, and this can just lead to what we have now (i.e. loot trains). By adding events (either random or triggered by players or the situation) player behaviour can be molded to improve the flow of the game.

The Dolyak Escort event was intended to make it more important to have players guarding them. If the risk of losing them was increased there would be more need to escort them. There could be various variables added to this event, such as how well the Dolyak’s world is doing, how many allied players are in the map, how far the Dolyak has to travel, etc. Depending on these variables the Doylak may or may not be attacked. This way, worlds that are struggling will have an easier time gaining supply, while dominating worlds will have to work harder to keep their supply chains going. And with the added bonus of speed while being escorted, there would be more benefit to players actively taking part in their supply chain.

The resource gathering and NPC recruiting could be boring if not done right, I agree with that. The idea was to provide things to do while defending a tower/keep. How the gathering and recruiting works would need to be discussed further, as simply running around and picking up bundles is not much fun. But if there was a little more action involved (i.e.- mobs guard the resources you need or enemy players can steal the supplies for themselves), I’m sure these events could be made more interesting.

Regarding the NPC’s, someone mentioned about the problem of players rallying off them. Personally, I think a player should only be able to rally off another player in WvW, with the exception of maybe keep/tower lords.

The assisted upgrades event was another suggestion to encourage players to defend towers and to give them something to do while they wait for the enemy. To encourage enemy players to attack the tower, any supply spent by players to assist in upgrading a tower will be returned to the tower stash after it is captured. This way, defenders can make towers strong faster, but run the risk of giving the enemy more starting supply if they cannot keep it. I am not sure if this idea would work well, as it could have potential problems, but I thought I would put it out there in case someone can think of a way to improve it.

Lastly, the idea behind the monster attacks was another way to encourage players to defend towers/keeps. Much like the Dolyak escort variables, the monster attacks could also follow a set of variables that increase/decrease the chances of an attack. Again, the idea being a dominating world will need to work harder to protect what they own, while a struggling world will hardly ever get attacked by mobs.

The mobs do not have to be monsters either. It could be that towers send out troops to attack enemy towers and camps. But the number of troops towers can send out is reduced for each tower your world owns. The more towers you own the fewer troops your world can spare on these assaults, because they are defending your towers. This would require some careful balancing of course, but could make things a bit more interesting, by dynamically changing the advantages and disadvantages of each world.

As a keen player of WvW I want challenge and skilled strategic and tactical play. By evening out the struggle, depending on how the game is going, it will provide dominating worlds more of challenge and give struggling worlds a chance to gain some points and fight back. At the moment, a struggling world has very little chance to win against a strong, higher ranking, world. While dominating worlds have very little challenge and most of the time devolve into a mindless loot train. But if the advantages/disadvantages changed in a dynamic way, encouraging players to focus more effort on spreading their players across the map, I feel WvW could be a much better game mode.

So essentially they’re asking for EotM 2.0?

Dhampyr.2104:

For most WvW players, the fun part isn’t the PvE content, nor do I think it likely that adding PvE content will do much for us, excitement-wise. The fun part of WvW is fighting things that think just like I do -and that’s something that PvE content can’t replicate.

This.

@OP:

I am one of the people who do NOT want more PvE in WvW. I want to see more player interaction. For that reason, I don’t like your monster spawn idea or the fighting of NPCs. If people want that, they can go to EotM where NPC fighting is the highlight.

That said, I am in favor on reducing the dependence on NPCs. I actually like the idea of players being able to speed up the loading of dolyaks or other non-controllable events. The point is LESS dependence on non-controllable activities and more player control.

Rin please don’t open this door. More PvE on WvW??? Thanks, but no, thanks.
Every thing you ask for, you already have, try EOTM and Silverwastes, otherwise we gonna lose the last remaining real WvW players/guilds.
And please before you come here and post ideas like this one, think about, why we have 2 or 3 different game modes, PvE, PvP and WvW, lets keep them separated

People are still missing the point. But that’s to be expected I guess.

The suggested PvE content is not supposed to replicate, replace, remove or in any other way stop you from doing PvP content. It is supposed to support, direct and improve it.

I get it, you don’t want to gather bundles or fight dumb AI mobs. And I am not suggesting that this is what you must do. If all you want to do is fight players, then these events will not stop that from happening. What I am trying to add are incentives or reasons to break up the mindless zergs and constant tower flippping.

The game is stale. It’s not fun for long, unless you enjoy spamming 1 with the train or are lucky enough to find lots of skirmishes while roaming and only care about fighting other players. But if you want WvW to be an epic battle against 3 worlds, where control of towers and supply is important, where being good at fighting other players isn’t the only important skill required, then something needs to be added to make the game more tactical and strategic. And the only solution I can think of, to direct players, beyond simply adding or adjusting rewards (as rewards on its own is not enough), is to add more events to encourage players to clash more often.

Just picture it: Most towers you encounter have players defending them. Dolyaks are escorted by players. There is a reason to spread out for fear of losing towers, even against lower population worlds. WvW is not meant to just be a large scale PvP battle. If it was there’d be no point in having towers, camps, supply or siege weapons. WvW is supposed to be war, and war is not just about who has the most skilled soldiers.

So please, stop focusing on the PvE content in terms of not fighting players, and look at the potential consequences of the PvE content, in that it has the potential to increase the frequency of encountering other enemy players and to continuously change the strategy play of the war.

Edit: Just to add, regarding the three game modes. According to Anet, PvE is Player vs Environment only, sPvP is Player vs Player only, and WvW is Player vs Player vs Environment. Just because YOU want it to only be PvP doesn’t mean everyone wants that and it doesn’t mean Anet wants that. Some of us like to mix the two together, and the impression I got from Anet is that that’s what they wanted too.

You would be much more productive if you explained why you feel the suggested events would cause problems, than simply saying you don’t like it. I don’t care about your personal preference, but I do care about your reasoning why you feel it will not work. Why would these ideas make people leave WvW? That I really don’t get, so would love to hear your reasoning.

@style, I too want more player interaction, and that is exactly what I am trying to achieve with these suggestions. By giving reasons to be in more locations at once, there will be more opportunity to see other players.

No. More PvE events promote karma farming.

What you suggest its not more tactical and strategic, what you suggest its less PvP and more PvNPCs. Like i said thanks, but no, thanks.
The beauty of WvW is the human factor, find a way to encourage people to stop hiding in towers/keeps building billions ACs, but to come out and fight.
Yes towers and keeps should be important, but not that important, yes towers and keeps Lord should be hard to kill, and yes you shouldn’t be able to damage gates with players weapons. There’s a lot of stuff Anet can do, and all this stuffs are here, on this forum, we just need some Dev to read them, and start working, obviously this is not going to happen, at least not any time soon,
But trust me more PvE/PvNPCs its not the answer.

Ok, that’s more like it. Reasons > Opinions.

Karma farming could be a problem, I agree there. But you will always get players who only follow trains for the reward. If the benefit of getting players together outweights the negative side effect of reward farming I’d say it was worth doing.

@Avit, you make a valid point. PvNPC would not be fun for players who only enjoy PvP. But look at it this way. Would you rather run around for ages not meeting other players very often, or would you rather start doing some event with a good chance of encountering players? The events themselves might not be fun (unless Anet can find a way to make them fun), but if it forced players to spread out and increased the chances of seeing enemy players, isn’t that a good thing?

Forget the content, that can be discussed more and tweaked. Focus on the benefits they could bring. The idea is to bring players together more often and to increase the population. If you feel PvE events won’t do this then suggest something that will.

Anet might not read this, and they may have their own agenda for WvW, but that doesn’t mean we cannot discuss things and throw some ideas around. You never know, someone might suggest something Anet really likes.

For more then 2 years all we try to do here in this forum is to have some kind of conversation with Anet, we try with good, we try with bad, we have been civilized, we have been uncivilized, we try with anger, nothing works. From my experience, talking with Anet its like talking with radio or empty wall.
Totally pointless.

Avit.3165:

For more then 2 years all we try to do here in this forum is to have some kind of conversation with Anet, we try with good, we try with bad, we have been civilized, we have been uncivilized, we try with anger, nothing works. From my experience, talking with Anet its like talking with radio or empty wall.
Totally pointless.

It can be very frustrating to get no response, I agree. And I don’t think silence is the best way to deal with things. But that’s just my opinion. Anet may never read or respond to this thread, but I’d still like to discuss these things and have a conversation, even if nothing will ever come of it.

At the end of the day, if we talk and talk and talk about what we want, and Anet never does anything, the moment a game comes along that offers what we want we will be gone like a shot and the only people to lose out will be the devs. So while we wait, and instead of getting frustrated, I would prefer to have a discussion. If it doesn’t change anything, nevermind, at least I have enjoyed the conversation. If it does, then awesome!

I’m not holding my breath in the hopes my suggestions will be read, I’m just trying to express my views and have a chat with the community.

WvW was set offtrack the moment Anet decided to remove the Orbs and not replace it with any other mechanic.

WAH WAH WAH… That’s about all I see. All these so called “PvP’ers” as soon as an enemies yak comes strolling along to the very gate they just staring at waiting for the “PvE’ers” to break open for them so they can leech off of the people that actually put in work, bought the siege plans, dropped it and OH got the supplies with them to build the kitten things while the “PvP’ers” just stand around and shoot the breeze, cause they so PvP that they apparently don’t even bother to pick up an supplies after they got their PvP a___es owned running off chasing a flea. Back to the yak strolling along to the very gate they just staring at but hey us “PvP’ers” don’t need karma, we just wanna slap some yaks… so as soon as we see one MAKING A BEE LINE RIGHT TO OUR ZERG WHERE EVERYONE CAN GET IN A HIT AND GET THE YAK SLAPPER CREDIT, but no we sooooo PvP we’ll go solo that yak and show everyone how PvP we are and F the rest of the zerg that’s actually playing WvW and being part of the WORLD v WORLD team trying to break down that wall / gate to cap that tower with 10 secs left before the tick cause OH WHAT ARE WE PLAYING WORLD v W O R L D !!!!! All selfish AND MOST OF ALL USELESS.

P. S. HAPPIE T H Y M E!!!

Yes WvW needs PvE. It DOES NOT need devs attention, we just need to make it a PvE instance.
So much win.

Since people do not read the OP I will comment on an idea I just had.
It deals with Dolyaks/supply.

Why not create an event where a player must obtain supply froma camp and take it to a tower/keep. (Have a max limit to players who can have the event running at 1 time.) Also debuffs like lower movement speed, and buffs to increase defense.
Remove the dolyaks, and make players work as dolyaks.

Or have it to where players can buy a “cart” from the camp NPC’s, build it, and use said cart to haul supply to towers/keeps.

It nixes the pve escorting of a dolyak. And the debuff could set all who have it to a set amount of stats, equal across the board for all classes. Plus it makes it players who are responsible for obtaining supplies. (Or lower Yak spawn rates to 1-2 times every 15minutes while allowing a player to use the carts.)

Rin.1046:

The game is stale. It’s not fun for long, unless you enjoy spamming 1 with the train or are lucky enough to find lots of skirmishes while roaming and only care about fighting other players.

This right here is your issue. If you think a group fight is about pressing 1, you are not playing very well.

style.6173:

Rin.1046:

The game is stale. It’s not fun for long, unless you enjoy spamming 1 with the train or are lucky enough to find lots of skirmishes while roaming and only care about fighting other players.

This right here is your issue. If you think a group fight is about pressing 1, you are not playing very well.

I never said I do this, in fact what I said was is that only players who enjoy hitting 1 enjoy running the zerg train.

I am very active in large group fights, attacking and controling the enemy and supporting my allies where possible. I am far from a ‘hit 1’ player, but I see this behaviour quite a lot when running with zergs. The reason I feel zergs are stale is because 9 times out of 10 there is very little resistance to your zerg and most of the time it boils down to PvD situations. Full on zerg vs zerg clashes do not happen very often in my experience, but maybe you have had better luck than I have in this regard. But the fact remains that, like I do, a lot of players experience the same lack of ZvZ fights.

Most of the time I tend to roam solo or in small groups, taking camps and dolyaks, and occasionally running supply to those taking/defending nearby towers. If a big battle kicks off then I try to get to it quick and help out, but a lot of the time by the time I get there the fight is over because all it was was an allied zerg attacking an empty or near empty tower.

I am not against zergs as such, because when you get two/three skilled zergs clashing there is nothing else in the game that beats it for fun, but I dislike the mentality it can often encourage. Especially when there is nothing to fight but doors and NPCs. And this is why I am trying to suggestion things to direct players towards each other. To poke the hornets nest so to speak. If you feel my suggestions would not achieve this then I would be happy to hear your reasoning/ideas.

Mishi.7058:

Since people do not read the OP I will comment on an idea I just had.
It deals with Dolyaks/supply.

Why not create an event where a player must obtain supply froma camp and take it to a tower/keep. (Have a max limit to players who can have the event running at 1 time.) Also debuffs like lower movement speed, and buffs to increase defense.
Remove the dolyaks, and make players work as dolyaks.

Or have it to where players can buy a “cart” from the camp NPC’s, build it, and use said cart to haul supply to towers/keeps.

It nixes the pve escorting of a dolyak. And the debuff could set all who have it to a set amount of stats, equal across the board for all classes. Plus it makes it players who are responsible for obtaining supplies. (Or lower Yak spawn rates to 1-2 times every 15minutes while allowing a player to use the carts.)

I am not sure how players as dolyaks would work, but it’s an interesting suggestion. Especially the idea of having a buildable cart to carry it in. The cart could be used as an extra means of moving supply, in addition to dolyaks. They could cost some supply to build (30-50 supply perhaps more?), moves no faster than normal speed and can carry a lot more supply than it cost to build. It could be a way for small groups to take extra supply where its needed. However, to ensure it was not to strong there could be some way for enemy players to detect it. Maybe when an enemy player spots it, by merely seeing it, an icon appears on the map for everyone on the enemy’s side to see, for a set amount of time.

Alternatively, another negative to the cart could be that enemy players are able to steal the supply for themselves. If the enemy players defeated the cart’s escorts without destroying the cart itself, there could be the option for the enemy players to take control of the cart. This would add a nice dynamic to the supply chain.

Here’s the problem with attracting players to wvw: nothing basically has changed in 2 years, and the rewards are terrible (I’m not counting eotm karma train). I can get more dragonite in 5 seconds in LS map opening one chest than I’ll get after an epic battle for SM.

They need to scrap all the borderlands maps and make one new large map with 3 sides with around 20 objectives on each, some of which can only be captured by holding the cap circle at the same time. Also, some straight forward cap points that grant bonuses to the team holding them- and not in some out of the way place. Something similar to the old orb in gw1. Environmental effects to discourage large zergs (something simple, like muddy ground slows down the zerg due to larger numbers, become visible on the map after a certain size, etc. Maybe make it so ‘scouts’ in towers ‘report’ numbers so when you look at the map you can see roughly how many attackers and defenders there are, etc

There have been literally hundreds of ideas for improving wvw stated in the forums, all of which have fallen on deaf ears whilst they make the biggest JP in any MMO as one release of the LS, something most people will try once and then never go back.

Baldrick if you really have the silver bullet(s) for Anet to fix WvW, why does your list of suggestions end with “etc.”? Yes, there have been loads of great ideas, there have also been a lot of awful ones. I feel like every time there’s an attempt to compile good WvW ideas, you get a couple gems and a lot of things that really haven’t been thought through to their conclusion. The siege troll discussion did manage to identify a couple useful fixes that have been implemented. More focused discussions like that will help to separate the noise from the signal.

You’re not going to get a total revamp of WvW. They’ve already stated that map size is a technical limitation, any effort to change that would be loaded with risks with only a slim to nil possibility of success because of how far back they’d have to go in the development process. Environmental effects that discourage zergs have been considered, but these would create new problems. It opens the door for players to be told they can’t even join a PUG zerg, and it means that players can troll a group just by following it. We’re aware of these problems because of the rally mechanic, but imagine how much worse it would be.

Increasing the rewards in WvW is also something that I’m skeptical would help. When WXP was introduced, we got a shift towards blobbier play, and I feel like making WvW more rewarding will just make people more inclined to game the system as they do in EotM. I care a lot more about them improving the experience rather than handing out tokens and prizes. Remember that this was what WXP was, because so many people asked for it, but it just ended up being a substitute for actual content. It seemed like for a year the only WvW changes that appeared were new WXP categories.

I really do believe that the existing WvW maps are phenomenally designed (okay, I like the BL map and usually avoid EB). They provide focal points, chokepoints, objectives give strategic advantages (Even more so when you consider they were designed with orbs in mind – Garrison is great for controlling the north half of the map, while hills is incredibly difficult to attack, making it a great place to hold an enemy orb). Think about how many great locations there were for fights in the heyday of WvW – outside of objectives, between objectives, within objectives. Just watch a few old guild raid videos and you’ll see a dozen different places where big fights happen.

I also think the maps can be improved. The lake was awful, but so are the ruins. The mechanics of taking and defending objectives is still a little thin. So thanks again Rin for opening up this topic, I popped a couple ideas into my first response, some critique would be great (Would you like me to elaborate more?). Baldrick, thanks for getting in more than a kneejerk response, I do think Rin fumbled the initial post. The discussion isn’t so much about adding PvE content as it is about making a richer WvW experience.

Bertrand.3057:

Increasing the rewards in WvW is also something that I’m skeptical would help. When WXP was introduced, we got a shift towards blobbier play, and I feel like making WvW more rewarding will just make people more inclined to game the system as they do in EotM. I care a lot more about them improving the experience rather than handing out tokens and prizes. Remember that this was what WXP was, because so many people asked for it, but it just ended up being a substitute for actual content. It seemed like for a year the only WvW changes that appeared were new WXP categories.

It absolutely would help though. One of the major flaws concerning the reward system in WvW is people having to leave WvW to get stuff that’s part of PvE and the PvP reward tracks simply so they can have a better build, or people needing to go farm to recoup their losses from commanding or taking care of a structure. The problem you’re referring to with EotM shares a lot with the commander and scouting issue, the WvW reward structure favors not playing competitively.

One of the biggest complaints from people who are fully committed to WvW is that they lose out from actually doing

I do agree with that, I guess my concern is more that the way rewards are handed out, you always have an incentive to zerg.

Perhaps if there were a map-wide reward every time your server had a successful defense/capture event at a major objective. There would have to be a threshold for event participation to discourage people from just going AFK. You could also redistribute how WXP is awarded, so that this map-wide reward gives mainly WXP. This way people who just want PvE rewards don’t care about it. It would also just be a good idea to increase the material rewards for capturing/defending smaller objectives.

Hey Betrand, thanks for being so constructive on this and helping to push the conversation along, I really appreciate it. I read your critique and it was well received. I guess I have been too focused on trying to keep people on track I didn’t get round to discussing your points, sorry about that. So as requested:

• NPC/Monster Events: You’ve suggested this as a way to encourage players to stick around and defend. Either this is a big event, which pulls in PvE players, or it’s a non-event which no one cares about. I worry that a big event just means players taking up slots waiting around for an event and not contributing to real-time needs.

That’s correct, in fact a lot of my suggestions are about encouraging players to spread out and defend or attack more locations at the same time. As to the event itself, I guess in my mind I pictured something like the breakout event, so biggish. The basic principle of the event is that if the location is undefended the attack will neutralize it. This, combined with variables (mentioned in a later post), could be used to dynamically scale the difficulty for each world depending on how well they are doing. This would need some very careful balancing of course, but the basic idea is to even out the competition between worlds while at the same time providing a reason to have players defending locations.

The biggest problem with this would be how to make the events fun for PvP players, as well as PvE players. Unfortunately I do not have the answer to that yet. But in my mind, if the benefit of bringing players together and balancing the playing field outweights the negative of boring events, I think it would be worth it. But then maybe there is a better way to implement this.

• Resource gathering/upgrade/dolyak loading: These look to me like busywork that will help monitor when players are scouting. Honestly, a lot of people who defensively scout are usually giving far less than 100% of their attention, so making them do something menial isn’t necessarily rewarding. Maybe if they proceed with removing automatic white swords there can be a first flag reward that a player gets if they light the beacon. Give them a chest if there’s a big fight afterwards. There could also be secondary upgrade events that speed up the process but are vulnerable to attack, like a bit of scaffolding on the outside of the wall. This would encourage small groups to make attacks on bigger objectives even if they can’t capture them, while encouraging defenders by giving them an opponent to fight.

You make a good point about the busy work, but I guess this would depend on how it was handled and how much of your time it took up. One player helping to load a dolyak might take a while, but a small group of 5 players could do it in no time.

I really like the idea of lighting the beacon. It would really give roamers and scouts a noticable (to everyone) way of keeping their allies informed. And the idea of scafolding is great too. Any event that allows for PvP opportunities is good in my opinion.

Both the resource gathering and assisted upgrading run the risk of being boring events, but if there was a way to make them enjoyable they could make sticking around to defend really worthwhile. This is another reason I wanted the discussion, not only to add things but to fine tune them.

• Dolyak escort: I absolutely agree that this is a part of WvW that needs work, it’s so crucial and it has potential to encourage more open-field confrontations. I think you’re suggesting something like a circle around the yak, where if players walk in it they speed up the yak? This could be good. I also think that a defend the caravan event actually needs to be… defensible. Dolyaks are way too easy to kill. It’s been suggested before to make a dolyak invulnerable until its NPC guards are killed. We could also have an actual caravan of yaks so that there’s a chance for partial success/failure.

Yes, that is the general idea. Player proximity to the dolyak would speed it up. But the benefits don’t have to end there. The dolyak could get all sorts of buffs depending on the situation, or maybe even depending on what professions are escorting it (though that would require careful balancing). It could also open up more WvW rank unlocks, like the siege weapon ranks (faster dolyaks, more buffs, more supply, etc).

I agree about the dolyaks being easy to kill and I like the multiple dolyak caravan idea. Talking of this, what did you think of Mishi’s supply cart idea?

Ultimaistanza.4793:

It absolutely would help though. One of the major flaws concerning the reward system in WvW is people having to leave WvW to get stuff that’s part of PvE and the PvP reward tracks simply so they can have a better build, or people needing to go farm to recoup their losses from commanding or taking care of a structure. The problem you’re referring to with EotM shares a lot with the commander and scouting issue, the WvW reward structure favors not playing competitively.

One of the biggest complaints from people who are fully committed to WvW is that they lose out from actually doing

I agree that rewards in WvW need improving and I absolutely agree that a WvW player shouldn’t have to step outside WvW to replenish losses or build up their character.

However, I do not feel rewards alone are a good enough incentive to encourage players to do a variety of things in WvW, because rewards will always fall foul of the ‘path of least resistance’ mentality. It’s human nature, and balancing rewards across a multitude of objectives and actions is a very difficult thing to get right.

Another thing to consider, is if there was a wider variety and more frequent occurances of events, this would in turn increase the number of rewards WvW players could receive. Of course the PoLR mindset will still be their in many players, but with the added importance of doing the events or losing something valuable, it would no longer just be down to the rewards. It would be a combined system of punishment and reward.