[Suggestion] WvW achievements
So many casuals in this thread that just want everything now, I would rather they leave the achieves as they are right now than cater to casuals.
Its a casual game and if you think a single achievement should take years of real time, than you are playing the wrong game.
With 9k hours you can EASILY get 27k+ achievement points if you started playing at release. I fail to see how a single achievement should take more time and grind than all the other 100s of achievements together.You are right I could have easily got 27k achieve points, but guess what? I didn’t care about getting them, I care about playing WvW and that’s where I prioritize my time, you asking for Ultimate titles for cheap is like me saying “Hey anet I want 27k AP too but I cba to work for it, but give it to me anyway” get my point?
And yes I do want achievements that take years to get, and guess what again, that’s exactly what we have… I’m not playing the wrong game, maybe you are…
A dev said 2 years ago that the current values are placeholders, so its your own fault if you worked that hard to reach just 2.7% of the goal (27k of 1m dolyaks). Insisting now that your work should be valued is nonsense. And the past showed that Anet does not hesitate to devalue peoples work whenever it makes sense for them.
And guess what? I much rather have people with 25k+ AP in my friendlist, parties and guilds than some hypotetic person with yakslapper or ultimate raider. It only shows you focused thousands of hours on a very specific thing instead of playing the whole game. So yes, I would have no sympathy for you if your “work” gets devalued.
Vavume, please notice that you are talking with THE mighty “17th person in EU / 26th worldwide to reach 25,000 achievement points. Currently bearer of 84 titles (excluding “No Title”).” AP is everything for him… untill he leave the game and think ‘why the hell I spent so much time on gathering some virtual stuff’ :P
On topic though – some achis could use one ‘0’ less in the max amount. Been talked about it since long time, but nothing happened. Maybe it’s too complicated, meh.
@ Maledikus, Except I have played the whole game, 22k AP here, and everything I do I do legit, unlike you, since you are just an OS farmer grinding Ultimate Dominator, no one respects you for that, and why should I care who is in your friendslist? I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be associated with you or anyone else that takes part in those OS farm events that you are so proud of, its pathetic.
At this point no one knows just how much Anet will nerf these titles, if they devalue my work by completely undercutting what I have already done then sure I will be annoyed, but I will live with it.
@ Atoss, I could think of a few more titles for him tbh :P
(edited by Vavume.8065)
@Phantom, I’m at 27k yaks, and I didn’t say my 9k hours was all WvW , I just said a large percentage was, I have no real idea how much time I have spent there, its just a lot. I feel these titles should take at the very least 1 year of full time WvW to obtain, in the same way Sarcx obtained 250k kills within about that time playing hardcore.
Sacrx was indeed a hardcore player. But you need to understand that farming 250k kills back then and nowadays is a completely different thing. Back then I heard of nights of 1.5k kills. Nowadays? Do you often get 1500+ kills in a mere 6 hours? Doubt it :S
The maps were full. Everyone ran whatever build they wanted. People did not really care to die as long as they got a kill. Nowadays people run with a group all optimised to kill the other group who is also optimised. For sure there are still a few baddies here and there. But those nights are over.
Unless you farm EotM in order to get those 250k kills, otherwise it is a long process in comparison to what it used to be.
@ Phantom, I cant honestly say since I have played in a mid table server since release, but I imagine that in tier 1 with the huge blobs its possible to farm kills very easily, and perhaps easier for me to flip camps in tier 5, just the nature of the game atm.
Anyway. I understand your point of view. It just seems to me that achievements should not be aimed at that 0.5-1% of the gaming population. I do believe that they could make most for the WvW achievements hard to get but obtainable while making or leaving one or 2 achievements to be life time consuming for those who want a Dark Soul kind of experience.
@ Maledikus, Except I have played the whole game, 22k AP here, and everything I do I do legit, unlike you, since you are just an OS farmer grinding Ultimate Dominator, no one respects you for that, and why should I care who is in your friendslist? I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be associated with you or anyone else that takes part in those OS farm events that you are so proud of, its pathetic.
At this point no one knows just how much Anet will nerf these titles, if they devalue my work by completely undercutting what I have already done then sure I will be annoyed, but I will live with it.
@ Atoss, I could think of a few more titles for him tbh :P
OS farm is legit, our beloved Game Security Lead Chris Cleary said so.
You are welcome to get kills the slow and tedious way if you hate being efficient.
I got 73k kills “legit” (by your distorted definition), that is good enough for me
(edited by Malediktus.9250)
@ Maledikus, Except I have played the whole game, 22k AP here, and everything I do I do legit, unlike you, since you are just an OS farmer grinding Ultimate Dominator, no one respects you for that, and why should I care who is in your friendslist? I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be associated with you or anyone else that takes part in those OS farm events that you are so proud of, its pathetic.
At this point no one knows just how much Anet will nerf these titles, if they devalue my work by completely undercutting what I have already done then sure I will be annoyed, but I will live with it.
@ Atoss, I could think of a few more titles for him tbh :P
OS farm is legit, our beloved Game Security Lead Chris Cleary said so.
You are welcome to get kills the slow and tedious way if you hate being efficient.
I got 73k kills “legit” (by your distorted definition), that is good enough for me
Your method is not legit morally, I pity you for not realising that.
It is morally fine, too. I have pity (actually not, it was their choice to waste so many hours on it) for the people who take pride in getting the achievement the long and tedious way.
Posted this in another thread. If an average player logging 10 hours a week killing yaks at a rate of 30 yaks an hour it would take him 64years!
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
So today is the 1000th day that the game has been available to play.
Meaning you’d have to have killed a thousand yaks a day, 24/7, every day since the game came out to have Yakslapper. Something like 1.4 yaks a minute for close to 3 years…
It is morally fine, too. I have pity (actually not, it was their choice to waste so many hours on it) for the people who take pride in getting the achievement the long and tedious way.
whatever you believe is fine by me, but without the journey (just straight up grinding the kills) it’s just another thing you own. You don’t have the experience of earning it in any real fashion. Achievements are as much a reflection of where you’ve been as they are the prestige of showing them off. I guess I just don’t see the same amount if inherent value if you take an achievement that is supposed to be dedication and go farm it out ‘the easy way’.
To each their own I guess.
It is morally fine, too. I have pity (actually not, it was their choice to waste so many hours on it) for the people who take pride in getting the achievement the long and tedious way.
The only waste I see is with your method. The Ultimate Dominator title is a very meager amount of AP and the title itself isn’t all that spectacular. The true reward of it is in growing as a WvWer and your experiences along the way. If you’re simply kill sharing for the ap then you’re being very inefficient and if you’re doing it for the epen then that just ends up making you look really petty.
It is morally fine, too. I have pity (actually not, it was their choice to waste so many hours on it) for the people who take pride in getting the achievement the long and tedious way.
The only waste I see is with your method. The Ultimate Dominator title is a very meager amount of AP and the title itself isn’t all that spectacular. The true reward of it is in growing as a WvWer and your experiences along the way. If you’re simply kill sharing for the ap then you’re being very inefficient and if you’re doing it for the epen then that just ends up making you look really petty.
What a philosophic view. The reality is, especially for guardians, it shows how many hours you pressed 111111. I would say even the worst guardians will only get it 20% slower than the best ones. Getting 250k kills is a group effort and as much skillbased as 99% of the other achievements of the game.
There is a difference between the three game types (PvE, PvP and WvW) when it comes to achievements and WvW has the short end of the stick in every possible way:
1) Casual friendly
PvE gives you points for mundane tasks, like killing a certain boss once (e.g. the legendary bosses in SW or the world bosses); PvP rewards you for at least trying basic level games (10 kills for one profession e.g.), while WvW teases you with Master of Disaster & Realm Defender and then gives you pretty much nothing again – ever.
2) Continuation of Rewards
PvE had new stuff with every new LS patch, with new collections coming in and a vast variety of activities you can do; PvP has the kill & rank points line (which resets to a new tier and titles after 10 tiers); WvW has a very limited amount of activities you can do that have not been expanded since EotM.
3) Usefulness of Rewards
PvE rewards are useful on a wide scale of things (loot boxes) and PvP rewards give you free items you don’t need for PvP (because of free unlocks and PvP amulets), but WvW showers us with Badges that have very limited use (due to the fact of non-salvageable items you can buy); While PvE XP will unlock mastery progression in the future and PvP track points can be used to re-do title tracks – even for Legendery crafting stuff like Clovers, WvW abilities (or translated into liquid WxP) is capped and with the pruning of the ability tree will get even less relevant once you reach Silver ranks)
4) Pure numbers
I’d say that Fractal Frequenter and Dungeoneer might involve the most time to max out of the PvE achievements, it is nothing compared to WvW stuff.
Just take Dolly escorts (time consuming, not rewarding) and assume you can buff a dolly every 5 min to reach a gate (includes re-spawning, you running around spreading speed and stuff etc.), the third tier (out of 5) will take you 70 days, playing 12h a day just for that task. That already is quite insane. For those wanting to max out that title, you have to multiply the time by 50, which leaves you around 10 years older when you are finally done.
You can get even more insane numbers when you take a look at other achievements.
Achievements should be a little treat that come with the task you are doing while playing with dedication. The next achievement should at least appear in grasping range.
Pretty much every achievement in WvW does not qualify for that once you have reached t2 (or sometimes t3).
IMHO: Anet will never dedicate the manpower to re-program the part of the game that would allow them to reduce the number of points needed for more reasonable achievements.
I also have my doubts we will ever see salvageable WvW weapons/armour from badges or exclusive collections (e.g. for the hero weapons).
You play WvW because you like it, if you want to have something in return (fame, fortune, respect, shiny etc) you are playing the wrong game type of GW2.
Still keeps a volume of Kurzick poems ;)
How would it affect gameplay if current achievement lines were implemented instead as Reward Tracks?
Example:
- 10th yak killed = small loot bag
- 20th yak killed = bag with transmutation charge, tome of experience
- 30th yak killed = small loot bag
- 40th yak killed = champ loot bag
- 50th yak killed = small loot bag
- 60th yak killed = bag of superior siege
- 70th yak killed = small loot bag
- 80th yak killed = champ loot bag
- 90th yak killed = small loot bag
- 100th yak killed = 1 new exotic weapon box with unique wvw skin
Here’s what would happen:
- People would complain about kill-stealers and people selfishly not sharing yak kills.
- People would camp near camps and yell at people who try to actually flip the yak-farm.
- No yaks would get into any structures ever again.
- Upgrades would grind to a halt, all money spent on upgrades would be a waste of money.
- The people trying to do the dolyak escort track would be really upset because that one takes several minutes to advance and can fail at the last second. Killing yaks is so much faster and easier that’s what everyone would do.
The point is: If any of the WvW achievement titles/tracks seems possible and worthwhile… people will actively farm it, usually to the detriment of other players.
Well structures will upgrade automatically and for free in HoT so your point is not true for much longer.
If the current achievements are place holders that have been there since launch and have not been updated in the 3 years since then that is a pretty good indication of how many kittens Anet gives about WvW.
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
I’ve been looking at some of the WvW achivement paths, and all I can say is, Arenanet must be expecting to keep running this game for a LONG time!
take for example the chain for the “Yakslapper” title. For this you need to kill on MILLION supply dolyaks in WvW. I think someone really needs to learn just how big a million is.
I did some calculations, and the results are pure madness.
Lets imagine a player who is ocd enough to dedicate their life to this one task, killing dolyaks in WvW.
Lets say they can kill one dolyak every 5 minutes, which means finding it, killing it, and fighting off any rival players trying to protect it.
That means 12 dolyaks an hour.
If they played the game 10 hours every day that’s 120 Dolyaks a day.
In a year, (which I’m takinging as 365.25 days) they’d get through 43830 Dolyaks.
Divide 1000,000 by 43830 and you get 22.815 (rounded up to 3 decimal places).
NEARLY TWENTY THREE YEARS!
And that’s for someone who does nothing but hunt dolyaks for ten hours every day, 7 days a week. Seriously, what kind of playstyle are Arenanet trying to promote with achivements like this?
(edited by Bathos.6341)
The achievement is there pretty much to prevent anyone from fully completing GW2.
It’s mocking the current completionist mindset of most players in many games, as this is an MMO. It should never be able to be completed, due to its player-based dynamics which constantly change and the overall social environment that exists in MMO’s, and Achievement Points are only really supposed to represent the overall dedication of exploring and playing the game, not a measure of completion (as there is no such thing as an AP cap due to dailies).
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/ES-Suggestion-The-Deadeye-FORMAL/
A dev did say in the wvw section of the forums that they would be looking into changing the current wvw achievements to something more realistic. That was over eighteen months ago (approximately) so dont go holding your breath
Remember, Anet focuses its efforts on the PVE play style. When enough PVE players whine and complain (like they did on the wvw mapping requirement), they’ll change those WvW achievements to something actually attainable.
Do not worry: the new achievement in the HoT will be like this:
Kill the Wyvern 10000 times while naked… 10 achievement points.
For sure.
They said they will rework the WvW achievements, but obviously it’s not a high priority for them since it’s taking a while, and that’s OK for me.
WvW itself is a lot of fun. The achievements are just a bonus.
They said they will rework the WvW achievements, but obviously it’s not a high priority for them since it’s taking a while, and that’s OK for me.
WvW itself is a lot of fun. The achievements are just a bonus.
WvW has been a lot less fun to me ever since they nerfed stability, so I just go there to increase the WvW achievements now. I do not care if I waste thousands of supplies on walls who get trebbed
They said they will rework the WvW achievements, but obviously it’s not a high priority for them since it’s taking a while, and that’s OK for me.
WvW itself is a lot of fun. The achievements are just a bonus.WvW has been a lot less fun to me ever since they nerfed stability, so I just go there to increase the WvW achievements now. I do not care if I waste thousands of supplies on walls who get trebbed
I’m glad we don’t play on the same server then.
I don’t chase AP but it would a good thing if the wvw achievements were actually possible to get. Just look at the capture SMC one. It requires 25k captures. If a player captures SMC 5 times a day and plays EVERYDAY it would take over 13 years to get the achievement. Cmon ANET… make up more reasonable numbers.
A dev did say in the wvw section of the forums that they would be looking into changing the current wvw achievements to something more realistic. That was over eighteen months ago (approximately) so dont go holding your breath
They changed Master of Disaster (25k supply used or something) to “use 10 supply to build siege”
….. And Elementalist.
Remember, Anet focuses its efforts on the PVE play style. When enough PVE players whine and complain (like they did on the wvw mapping requirement), they’ll change those WvW achievements to something actually attainable.
There is some truth hidden in this. Lets all pretend being whiney pve kids and make complain threads like what happend on wvw completion?
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.
“A timer on the “Defend the tower” event immediately begins. Each time an allied dolyak caravan arrives at the tower, the timer will decrease by five minutes. "
This line from the blog post says the upgrade events will be called, “Defend the Tower.” which suggests:
- The 3 minute defend events may be gone.
- The rewards for the defend event could be substantial since it is a very long event.
- “Stopped Them Cold” achievement will take much longer to get unless it is being reworked.
If they aren’t reworking achievements for the new WvW changes, then you better hurry and get all your defend event achievements finished now before they become 10x harder. Right now you only have to defend for 3 minutes…
A dev did say in the wvw section of the forums that they would be looking into changing the current wvw achievements to something more realistic. That was over eighteen months ago (approximately) so dont go holding your breath
They changed Master of Disaster (25k supply used or something) to “use 10 supply to build siege”
It used to be 1m used for building siege and 10m supplies used in total (building+repairing)
Lets be honest, what Devon said 1,5+ years ago, was either nothing but a lie just to keep the masses quite, or they honestly must have some serious other problems, why they are unable to fix something so simple, like these achievements by just taking some 0s away from the program code of the wvw achievements…
That Anet is able to change the wvw achievements, by simply reducing the amount of something that is required, or by renaming the title name ect. pp have we seen already several times …
How long should we wait longer for these minor fixes with such a major effect to happen finally??
I just hope, WvW will get finally alot more attention that it needs and deserves, once HoT is finally out… just changing after so long time the horrific alpine Map out with the qualitative much better desert borderland alone won’t make the job …
WvW needs alot more serious improvements to make finally usage of more of its deep hidden potentials, that are currently wasted and unused just there waiting for Anet, that they finally wake up and let a dev team or two work on more serious WvW improvements.
If we don’t see finally fixes to the WvW Achievements with the introduction of the dersert borderland, I think then this will be just a hopeless try, which will lead to nothing at all and ANet basically abandonded WvW…
That we haven’t heared or seen for so long anything at all from Devon Carter, who was responsible all the time for WvW (if he still exists even as Dev at ANet and didn’t got quitely fired!) is really suspicious!!
The last thing we saw from him was, when he introduced with a video from the beta testing the Edge of the Mists Map, since then total abcence from him until today >.>
Devon is still working for Anet, he posted something on reddit yesterday:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/38426o/steve_fowler_in_building_a_competitive_game/crs4jfl
Would be better to see his nose for once again here in this forum, rather than in foreign 3rd party forums from other websites >.<
A dev did say in the wvw section of the forums that they would be looking into changing the current wvw achievements to something more realistic. That was over eighteen months ago (approximately) so dont go holding your breath
They changed Master of Disaster (25k supply used or something) to “use 10 supply to build siege”
It used to be 1m used for building siege and 10m supplies used in total (building+repairing)
This man knows!
I must have been on the 25k tier lel, didn’t know it was that high.
….. And Elementalist.
I’ve played almost only WvW and I still have 997000 Yaks to go…
Whoever at Anet put the million needed for the title achievement didn’t spend more than 1 minute thinking about how impossible it was for players to achieve.
A dev did say in the wvw section of the forums that they would be looking into changing the current wvw achievements to something more realistic. That was over eighteen months ago (approximately) so dont go holding your breath
They changed Master of Disaster (25k supply used or something) to “use 10 supply to build siege”
It used to be 1m used for building siege and 10m supplies used in total (building+repairing)
This man knows!
I must have been on the 25k tier lel, didn’t know it was that high.
They were nerfed because people like me built 100 trebuchets per day wasting all the supplies in every objective to raise the title :p
A dev did say in the wvw section of the forums that they would be looking into changing the current wvw achievements to something more realistic. That was over eighteen months ago (approximately) so dont go holding your breath
They changed Master of Disaster (25k supply used or something) to “use 10 supply to build siege”
It used to be 1m used for building siege and 10m supplies used in total (building+repairing)
This man knows!
I must have been on the 25k tier lel, didn’t know it was that high.
They were nerfed because people like me built 100 trebuchets per day wasting all the supplies in every objective to raise the title :p
So openly admitting you troll the supply – OS farm to get the title – Yet pinsniping is called cheesy and will kill off WvW?
Wheres the kittening logic?
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.
Stop trying to distract from the topic.
Stop ruining gamemodes with your farmerbuddies
Stop ruining gamemodes with your farmerbuddies
I am not ruining anything. And if you feel something is ruined by my playstyle you should support reworking the WvW achievements so I can complete them in the lifetime of the game without finding the most effective way.
I’ve seen this suggested before, and it could be a decent compromise: Tier the achievements, and tier the rewards. (Note I don’t recall the actual names and numbers for the achievements since I never look at them, so just excuse my mistakes)
For example 25k player kills gives title "Dominator"
Then 50k could give something like "Fearsome Dominator"
and 100k give "Terrifying Dominator"
and at the end 250k gives "Ultimate Dominator"
That way it is achievable, but the titles difference how much work you put into it. This would probably work best if the title replaced the older one I guess, though I’m certain I’d rather want some of the lower ones since I don’t like the word "Ultimate" in front of everything.
Also a bunch of the achievements are just poorly thought out. Anything involving supply for example (which you guys have discussed above regarding troll/waste supply). And several of the other ones like all the different defense ones could be combined into a single one that doesn’t care if you’re defending camps, towers, keep or the kittening SMC.
You already get WXP for using supply (still somewhat against that for same reasons).
“Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
“The objective is to win. The goal is to have fun.”
I do not care what gets done about these achievements, about any solution would be an improvement to the current situation.
WvW has been a lot less fun to me ever since they nerfed stability, so I just go there to increase the WvW achievements now. I do not care if I waste thousands of supplies on walls who get trebbed
Wonder if Anet bans/suspends accounts that openly admit to supply griefing on the forums. Or if they still require video of it.
WvW has been a lot less fun to me ever since they nerfed stability, so I just go there to increase the WvW achievements now. I do not care if I waste thousands of supplies on walls who get trebbed
Wonder if Anet bans/suspends accounts that openly admit to supply griefing on the forums. Or if they still require video of it.
hardly griefing if you do achievements set by Anet
almost all of my time spent in game is spent in wvw
and almost three years later, i’m not even close to any of these achievements.
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
almost all of my time spent in game is spent in wvw
and almost three years later, i’m not even close to any of these achievements.
I believe it is the same way for everyone, the only one of the WvW achievements you can realistically (for hardcore players on blob heavy servers) finish is the 250k kill one. I havent heared of anyone completing any of the other achievements.
Here are what I would find realistic requirements for the final tier of the WvW achievements – based on my 4 digit hours I spend on different activities in WvW:
[SNIP – had to remove your list because the overall post was too long with them included]
I think these requirements would motivate more people to play WvW – and more importantly do all aspects of WvW including dolyak escorts and defending. I expect with these requirements it would take about 2000 hours (= 5.5hours per day for a year) for the average player to max out WvW achievements.
I agree that the current kill/cap/defend numbers for WvW achievement brackets are almost all ludicrously too high, but I think the numbers you are proposing are too low for an absolute cap. The problem is, this game is still basically pretty early on in its lifespan. Given how long Ultima Online. EverQuest 1, Dark Age of Camelot, WoW and Eve Online have lasted, its reasonable to think that GW2 could easily last past 10 years although with a much smaller population than it currently has.
There is also a huge disparity between long time dedicated WvW players and casuals for how much time, effort and progress has been made towards these achievements. Any change that is made should try to meet the needs of both categories of player.
I would also like to point out that at present, there is a huge disparity between the achievement point pools possible of the 3 game modes: PVE, sPvP and WvW. At present the totals are:
PVE ~10,450 permanent achievement points (including all Living Story)
sPvP 1,651
WvW 1,737 (including all 3 WvW seasons)
This is even worse than it looks because it is quite possible for a PVE player playing on a more casual time frame to have gained all of those PVE points while it is extremely unlikely that even the most hardcore WvW player has gained even half of the WvW ones.
This time/effort/reward disparity in achievement points is part of an overall imbalance of time/effort/reward throughout the game so just fixing the achievement part alone isn’t going to be a panacea to the sPvP and WvW game modes but at least it COULD help change the perception that both sPvP and WvW are the forgotten modes of the game.
My proposal to fix this is to borrow an idea from the world’s militaries. The “Medal with Cluster” system. Clusters are additions to a base medal to denote multiple awards of that medal… so an Iron Cross with 2 clusters means you were awarded the Iron Cross 3 times.
So, treat the WvW titles as the Medal. Drastically reduce the goals to achieve the current titles, lower even than the totals you suggested. Make earning the base title worth 50 achievement points (spread out over a tiered system like there is now), but every time you earn enough extra credits to hit that base title number again you earn a cluster… 50 more achievement points and an icon added on to the end of the title.
Suggested icons are: bronze star (1 repeat), silver star (5 repeats), gold star (20 repeats). Lets say that an example title for Yakslapper would be 500 kills. At 1k kills you would have 100 achievement points and your title bar would say: Yakslapper with a bronze star after it. At 3,000 yak kills it would be 300 AP and Yakslapper with a silver star after it; 3,500 = 350 AP and Yakslapper with a silver and a bronze star; 10,500 Yak kills = 1,050 AP and Yakslapper with a gold star, etc.
The same principle should honestly be applied to sPvP achievements, by making the class specific rated game wins open ended and on the same AP scale, also adding clusters to the “Champion” titles.
In conclusion: If you’re going to change the WvW achievement system you might as well solve multiple issues at the same time by making it more accessible to casual players while at the same time reflecting the time and effort put into the game mode by vets as well as the open ended nature of WvW and PvP game play.
You are suggesting a whole new title system which would probably take much more effort than just changing the numbers.