Guild Wars 2

For the past few weeks i have noticed a lot of controversy regarding the way players decide to run their EOTM overflow, particularly revolving around whether an overflow is conforming to the ‘Karma Train’ mentality that the majority of players seem to have correlated to EOTM gameplay, or if an overflow is ‘Bag Farming’.

For those who are not aware of what i am talking about: Edge of the mists is an extension of world versus world designed to make sure there anyone wishing to play World versus World at any given time is able to do so, even if there is queues in their servers WVW (Doing so by using an overflow system). Now in comparison EOTM is very fast paced, plenty of the objectives do not have walls/gates around them so they are free for taking, and the rewards for capturing objectives are VERY high. What this led to was the general mindset that in EOTM you should avoid PVPing and attempt to capture as many things while avoiding combat.

Now for my actual feelings on the subject and how players and other commanders should treat EOTM: I am an EOTM only commander, and command in EOTM daily for a few hours every day. When i am playing Guild Wars 2 EOTM is what i enjoy doing, and its all i do when playing Guild Wars 2. My perspective of EOTM is that we are discussing PVP content when we debate about EOTM. Now this does NOT mean i am promoting only participating in PvP interactions when playing EOTM, what I am getting at is that the goal of PVP content is to be victorious. When i command my EOTM overflows my goal is to win, i have been called out for karma training, and i have been called out for having not capped something in a ten minute time-span, but in the end my goal is not to ‘Karma train’ and not ‘Bag farming’, its winning.

Winning in EOTM is often thought of as ‘Karma Training’ or using the some of the in-game community’s words ‘Being player versus defense scrubs’, but this is far from the truth. EOTM functions similarly to world versus world in that PPT is the deciding factor, and a team desiring the win is looking to gain PPT. PPT being a PVE orientated factor, you can see where these assumptions come from, but there is a lot more going on then what meets the eye here. PvP interactions come into play to such a great extent here in so many situations, in so many ways. For instance when i am commanding my EOTM overflows i take into consideration enemy morale, if an enemy is wiped four times in a row the result IS going to be a reduce in their population, and if the enemy has lower population you have faster capture rates than them naturally. Another situation, you have 120 PPT and the opposing team has 40, they outnumber you and have better siege yet when given the chance to fight this team I would take it, even if a wipe is inevitable, because during the few minutes this fight occurs you are essentially winning verus the enemy by losing that fight. I wish i could go on and on pertaining to the subject, but i am quite sure this post is looking far too long for most users so the last point i will make here is that there is also the obvious fact that killing enemy zergs will stop them from capping, also improving your win chance.

I suppose the reason i am posting this is that I spend a large portion of my day every day commanding in EOTM specifically, and during my time I enjoy the intense matches i have played versus other teams in EOTM where tactics are used to such great extents to ensure victory. While the community may be mixed on whether ‘Karma training’ is better than ‘Bag farming’ or not, i think everyone enjoys a true victory, and both sides of this controversial topic benefit from attempting to win.

TL;DR: The true goal of EOTM seeing as it is PVP content, should be to come out victorious. PLEASE READ ABOVE if you plan on responding.

~Commander Amarynth Nur

Reddit post here for those wishing to respond to the original:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/25g62m/edge_of_the_mists_a_commanders_point_of_view/

Feel free to post if you agree/disagree i will respond to EVERY comment/question.

Do you feel that the high rewards in EotM cheapen the rewards in regular WvW?

I and the Missus only play regular WvW, mostly roaming at that, and from what we’ve seen on the forum, you can generate a large amount of karma, badges and rewards by playing EotM. On the few occasions we’ve been in EotM, we’ve seen nothing but karma training. Once again, do you feel that the high rewards in EotM should be lessened to be equal in terms of time/effort as regular WvW?

Sororita.3465:

Do you feel that the high rewards in EotM cheapen the rewards in regular WvW?

I and the Missus only play regular WvW, mostly roaming at that, and from what we’ve seen on the forum, you can generate a large amount of karma, badges and rewards by playing EotM. On the few occasions we’ve been in EotM, we’ve seen nothing but karma training. Once again, do you feel that the high rewards in EotM should be lessened to be equal in terms of time/effort as regular WvW?

On the topic of rewards i feel a lot of factors are present when discussing the topic. You are asking me if rewards in WvW need to be lessened to WvW Level, and I feel like you are also asking me if i feel that the rewards are part of the reason the k-train attitude has taken over lots of EOTM players, so i will answer both.

My opinion on if EOTM rewards deserve a nerf: Overall i believe WvW Should have equal, if not higher rewards/reason to play then EOTM as long as EOTM is only giving a supply drop to the victor. You are contributing less to your servers, you should be earning less. (Note to all readers that lessening the rewards EOTM gives is not the point of my topic, but this user simply asked for my opinion).

As for if the rewards are contributing to the reason the k-train mentality has occurred in EOTM, i believe it contributes heavily and if you reduced rewards for EOTM caps you would see more diverse gameplay.

Hope I answered the question fully if you have anything else you want me to share my opinion on let me know

Rokuro.9564:

Hope I answered the question fully if you have anything else you want me to share my opinion on let me know

That answered everything, thank you.

The EoTM intensity you have is multiplied a hundred times in the WvW borderlands, when you have groups of equal size on VOIP.
The next level in your commanding should be to talk while you are commanding, even if nobody can hear you. When you finally take the step to be on VOIP, you’ll be more comfortable with playing and talking.

I use EoTM to bring my lower level toons to 80, to practice builds and tactics on my lvl 80s. I still want to necro spectral wall fear a zerg off a bridge. I’ve even sieged up a tower or two just to slow down or even repulse the enemy zerg.

As a long time WvW player, you realize that score doesn’t matter unless you are on one of the superstacked servers. I’ve been on servers that place third more than second or first. Coverage and population are too big to overcome in a majority of WvW matches.

If you’re a commander, especially in EoTM, you should already know that there are multiple reasons why players enter the map, some may agree with you and be silent. Others will armchair command and criticize everything you do or don’t do.

Play how you want to play. Command how you want to command. But most of all, have fun.

EOTM is supposed to have good rewards. At least it’s more of a challenge than most world events these days (Golem Mark II, Fire Elemental, Frozen Maw, Shatterer, Shadow Behemoth, Taidha Covington, Jormag, Karka Queen, Ulgoth Modniir, Jungle Wurm, Megadestroyer all easy peasy compared to EOTM)

Fighting Tequatl is somewhat challenging, I compare it to fighting an organized zerg.

And fighting the Triple Trouble wurms; well that’s more like fighting outnumbered all the time.

Like many people have said, they need to increase the rewards in the older WvW maps, not nerf the EOTM rewards. Eternal Battlegrounds is more rewarding than BL maps especially after they took out the Quaggan nodes. One thing they could do immediately is add those EOTM style chests for capturing objectives. Also, players should get rewards for capturing all 5 ruins on borderlands maps. They could change the veteran harpy/ice wurm/warg/skritt and centaur camps to offer some type of buff if they are captured/killed. Same with the hylek/dredge/and ogre camps in EBG. Also maybe a buff for killing the grub.

style.6173:

@OP:

I don’t think the majority of players look at EotM the same way that you do unfortunately. PPT does not matter in this realm and most players don’t really care about winning. They go to EotM to level characters, complete dailies, gain karma, or test new specs.

You are correct when you say the majority of players do no see EOTM as i do, and that they go to complete dailies, get karma, etc. People need to understand that EOTM was designed as a piece of Pvp content, now pvp content does not necessarily mean killing another player, it could mean seeing who can cap-train the best, etc, but it does not mean mindlessly going from one cap to another for karma not caring about the actual match. Part of this is arena-nets fault, part of it is just the community taking advantage while they can, but i will do what i can to get my mindset out there

Swamurabi.7890:

The EoTM intensity you have is multiplied a hundred times in the WvW borderlands, when you have groups of equal size on VOIP.
The next level in your commanding should be to talk while you are commanding, even if nobody can hear you. When you finally take the step to be on VOIP, you’ll be more comfortable with playing and talking.

I use EoTM to bring my lower level toons to 80, to practice builds and tactics on my lvl 80s. I still want to necro spectral wall fear a zerg off a bridge. I’ve even sieged up a tower or two just to slow down or even repulse the enemy zerg.

As a long time WvW player, you realize that score doesn’t matter unless you are on one of the superstacked servers. I’ve been on servers that place third more than second or first. Coverage and population are too big to overcome in a majority of WvW matches.

If you’re a commander, especially in EoTM, you should already know that there are multiple reasons why players enter the map, some may agree with you and be silent. Others will armchair command and criticize everything you do or don’t do.

Play how you want to play. Command how you want to command. But most of all, have fun.

You are completely correct when you speak about wvw having more tactics and intensity when being compared to EOTM, and IMO wvw should have better rewards simply for that reason, but at the same time you mention that people play the map for all types of reasons, and mine is that i actually like the map itself. I find EOTM to be designed well, so i play it often and enjoy my time on it. Being an EOTM commander, i feel that your statement about commanding how you want to command is complicated. If you are going to choose to take a leading position you have a responsibility to try and cater to as many of your followers as possible, is it ok for a commander to sit at airport the whole game waiting for a zerg to come, wipe them, and keep doing that? I feel like everyone can share some satisfaction in winning something, but hey this whole post is just expressing my opinion

The Edge of the Mists introduced things to WvW that honestly should have been implemented into the Borderlands and EB a long time ago.
The first and foremost is actually getting rewarded in game for your time and effort. The loot rewards of the edge dont need to be nerfed, the rewards of the other maps need to be buffed.
Difficult terrain like the bridges and pathways open up chances to utilize tactics. Having choke points and obstacles like the cannons help to break up the “blob” mentality.
More capable NPC defenders and the buffs that certain control points offer. These things more than anything can make defending a location an actual viable option.

Me and the guildmates i run with dont have a problem with the idea of “karma trains”, loot is the carrot that all mmorpg players will chase and without players there can be no PvP. We also dont have a problem with “bag farming”, killing the enemy in pvp is exciting and satisifying. Rokuro is correct, “Winning” is the best mindset for Edge of the Mists, the best of both worlds, everyone has fun and gets to feel like their time was spent well.

EOTM will always be capable of being a karma train because the matches last 4 hours and defending is less worthwhile than it is in WvW. In my opinion, anyway. Why defend something I will for sure lose in 4 hours or less when I can be taking objectives and gaining big loot that EOTM offers?

Playing with different random players every time you enter the map means lack of community. Lack of community means people don’t care about their team, which means they don’t care about winning or losing. So all that’s left is “playing” for rewards, i.e., karma training.

That’s my view on EoTM.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Playing with different random players every time you enter the map means lack of community. Lack of community means people don’t care about their team, which means they don’t care about winning or losing. So all that’s left is “playing” for rewards, i.e., karma training.

That’s my view on EoTM.

Absolutly Right.

Perhaps edge of the mist is why the megaserver thing never moved into WvW itself with a three faction matchup. Arenanet likely saw how destructive the effect of having no commitment to a wvw side was and decided against it.

Edge of the mist turned WvW into the queensdale champion train and that’s pretty horrific.

Responses coming to all posts soon, i am currently responding to all reddit posts first as it is much more active, once again answering all posts concerns/questions feel free to ask something!

chronometria.3708:

Perhaps edge of the mist is why the megaserver thing never moved into WvW itself with a three faction matchup. Arenanet likely saw how destructive the effect of having no commitment to a wvw side was and decided against it.

Edge of the mist turned WvW into the queensdale champion train and that’s pretty horrific.

I see it completely differently; that Anet didn’t learn from the EoTM debacle:

EoTM was a guinea pig for megaservers (PvE and WvW). The biggest lesson to be learned was that community is really important. Anet did not learn this and we got the current form of megaservers in PvE.

Chances are they still haven’t learned anything and megaservers will be coming to WvW sooner rather than later.

Please improve the rewards system so that it does not induce this kind of kittening kitten boring gameplay. Ofcourse people will want rewards, and they will tend to “zerg”, but really, what is Guild Wars 2? Should its gameplay devolve into a goat herd simulator where you graze from one place to another, hoping no pack of lions come their way and hoping all the people in that map instance are also goats. People will want rewards, will want the easy way out, and will tend to “zerg”, but I want a better game than acting like a herd of deer. And I know some people like to “act like a deer in a herd”, and some people like other (if not all) people to think like that so they can act out their commander fantasies in EZ mode, but if you tweak the reward system a little, you may entice these ‘deer thinkers’ to think better and to try being a ‘pack of lions’ instead. Let me emphasize again: zerg =/= goat herd, zerg == lion pack

Lord Kuru.3685:

chronometria.3708:

Perhaps edge of the mist is why the megaserver thing never moved into WvW itself with a three faction matchup. Arenanet likely saw how destructive the effect of having no commitment to a wvw side was and decided against it.

Edge of the mist turned WvW into the queensdale champion train and that’s pretty horrific.

I see it completely differently; that Anet didn’t learn from the EoTM debacle:

EoTM was a guinea pig for megaservers (PvE and WvW). The biggest lesson to be learned was that community is really important. Anet did not learn this and we got the current form of megaservers in PvE.

Chances are they still haven’t learned anything and megaservers will be coming to WvW sooner rather than later.

Agree and disagree.

Agree part: ANET did not learn that the mega server is horrible for community building
Disagree part: I don’t think ANET will bring this to WvW. Why? If they remove server identity from WvW, there is zero reason for anyone to transfer. No transfers mean less gem sales.

WvW community is built by VOIP and Guilds, the two things not usually found in EoTM.

Gonna be honest. I tried out eotm and HATED it. PvD and avoiding fights isn’t my thing and that’s what I saw there. What makes eotm even worse is that the pve players that get started there bring the bad habits to the actual WvW maps with them. If you enjoy eotm good for you but I hate the type of game play that is slowly working its way into WvW.

When commanding WvW I am try my hardest to win and when I command EotM I only karma train and it’s as simple as that for me. EotM has not only much better rewards but it also has tons of up levels that need to get exp to level up. I’ve also noticed that when commanding karma trains in EotM, it actually helps us win a lot more than most people might think. As far as keeping people from leaving your overflow, karma training is good for keeping your numbers high. As people see themselves capturing a lot of stuff and leveling quick, they want to stay in the overflow. Keeping high numbers helps take stuff quicker and then of course greatly increases the chance of winning zerg v zerg battles. EotM also gives no reward for winning and there’s no color pride so generally my zerglings feel happier when we just karma train and I don’t mind the rewards myself either.

My WvW focused guild goes to EotM when WvW gets boring and just for something different to do at times.

The attitude there is, in our experience is a predominantly K Train focused one. We felt this to the extent that we had asked members to rep their personal guilds while we were in EotM as a guild because of a number of people’s attitudes.

Unfortunately we were receiving blow back from enemy players that as a guild we were ‘cheapening’ our guild name by going there and ultimately weren’t desired there as a guild and should go back to WvW.

We go to EotM for ‘#$%@s n giggles’ but the average player in EotM doesn’t want to face a certain level of fighting standard. They feel it belongs in WvW, EotM attitude is more about levels and loot rather than fights.

I’m just going to say EotM is for fun and loot. Stating that you want to demoralize another player is taking EotM and yourself, way too seriously. If you want that kind of game play, take it to a BL please. Though even there, demoralizing another person is taking a video game way too far.

I think Anet did a great job with EotM. It gave players a greater diversity of game play to choose from. Having some choices is always good for a game. EotM should remain lighthearted and fun as it is. Leaving more competitive play to the regular maps.

EotM is fine as is, but regular WvW could use a few reward buffs, but not by much.

If you want players to play EotM more as a WvW map and less as a K train, reduce the rewards from objectives overall and compensate by having reward chests at the end of each match, based on your colours placement and your time spent in that particular overflow during the match.

Ez pz

edit: also, how my time is spent in EotM is largely dependant upon how a commander wishes to command. I’m happy with K train-ing, as most of the time we’ll run into enemy zergs anyway and that’s always fun. But I can say first hand that playing with an experienced commander makes a huge difference, particularly in timing.

I’d also say that trying to win in EotM would be infinitely more fun if the matchups were more balanced and had more balanced amounts of players on each side. Commanding a victory on Overgrowth means nothing if the two opposing sides are outnumbered. Logging in to FR down by 2k and outnumbered already takes away any chance at winning. This is one big reason why I just like to karma train. Win or lose I don’t really accept the fact that it’s balanced so I don’t feel the need to try to win.

" I am an EOTM only commander"
After this phrase your article lost its sense in this forum thread.
go to pve section, your place is there.

@OP, EOTM = queensdale but with bags, this is how i see it, i rather ignored the keep and try to fight other group, thats how i see winning , if by chance after the fight keep is able to be taken thats an extra, also if your on a organized WvW group EOTM gets to easy after some time spent there.

It all depends on the commander. Some commanders look for karma only and avoid fights, some look for fights only and avoid PvD and some do a mix of both.

Look at it this way. Most people go to EotM not because they are stuck in an overflow and want to get their WvW on, but because they choose this map over EB or a BL for something only EotM offers…. From what I can tell, the only thing EotM offers better than WvW is rewards. The WxP is better, the badges are better, the loot is better, the Karma and XP are better. So people flock there to “farm”. So, its understandable when they get a little kitteny when a commander decides to WP from taking an objective to defend one.

Don’t get me wrong, I like to “win” things too. But EotM has no incentive for winning. I like to try and win WvW because it rewards your server with a sense of pride and accomplishment. In EotM, there is no camaraderie or feeling of “doing good for your server”. We are only colors, and no one cares about that. If you want to spend your time and energy commanding for winning, why are you doing it in a place where it doesn’t matter? Go to WvW and win there.

To finish, let me clarify what I personally think makes a good commander in EotM.

• Work towards taking objectives, always. If your zerg thinks you are lacking, or not taking objectives enough, they will abandon you and do it themselves.
• Don’t run from the enemy zerg if you cross paths, kill them (unless its hopeless of course).
• Defend an objective ONLY if its because you are ALREADY there, and you happen to run into the enemy zerg.
• Don’t flip out and WP bc there are orange swords in our keep; smile and think: “now I can cap a keep later”.
• Realize that a tag in EotM is essentially a beacon, in general, people don’t care about your tactics or listening to your orders.
• Always cap workshop before red keep. That’s just common sense.

TBH EoTM is the best place to level an alt for those of us that don’t like “doing hearts”/PVE, without penalizing a group/guild/server in “real wvw”…The fights there are few and far between, and the rewards are good.

Also the blobs are typically bigger than that of some of the servers would normally field, so have some uplevels isn’t the worst thing in the world.

I do kind of chuckle to myself, when I think of what everyone (ANET especially) thought EoTM was gonna be during its design, compared to what the players made it.
For me EoTM is “acceptable” PVE while leveling toons, also not a bad karma farming spot for when I am low on karma.

I wonder how many Silver and Gold invaders there are who have never stepped foot in a “regular” WvW map…

I popped a bday booster the other day and popped into EotM. 1,600 wxp per keep. I think we were also outmanned the whole time so that probably contributed to that number. HOLY MOLY did the wxp ranks roll in.

EotM gives much better rewards than WvW so for many people who make the decision to play EotM instead of WvW, it’s for the rewards. Especially the people who are wanting to level up their alts. That’s why they always prefer karma training and get mad at commanders that actually try to win. I sometimes try to win if the matchups are actually balanced for the week (hardly ever). This week, Overgrowth has won every single time in all 50+ matches I’ve seen except for once match that I was in on Saturday before people figured out that Overgrowth is winning everything for the week and quit. If I’m an Overgrowth commander this week, I can’t take any satisfaction in winning because I know it’s not even close to a balanced match up and therefore winning means nothing. If I’m a Badlands or Frostreach commander this week, I’m usually logging into EotM outnumbered and if it’s not at the very start, we’re already down by a ton. When this is the case, there’s no reason to try to win. You just try to maximize captures and help your uplevels get their level ups so everyone can still get something out of a losing match.

Hello, My name is Kaga, and I am known as one of the architects of the frostreach “Operation Defense”. It should also be known that because of the way the WvW season is, I’ve been blue for 5 weeks straight now. This exile to the Ice Palace has not made me idle.

And lo, the great dual comms strategy emerged, and team Kaga & friends went to work on perfecting that defense, farming the zergs coming in, reaping us a great baggie harvest with a generous side of zergling tears. The anguish generated by operation defense escaped the confines of the overflows, and has been on blast on the forums and giving me GREAT JOY.

To let the keep get capped because you get loots for recapping is to accept mediocrity. For me, the slice should be defended against all odds. The Edge of the myst is a WvW map and NOT a pve map like the ktrainers would use to justify their existence.

So what do you do when you’re outnumbered all the time, and you have to fight qzergs constantly? You work smart. You siege the hell out of the inner and USE THAT SUPPLY. You setup a defense in layers , and react to enemy zergs as they come in, mobilise your troops, setup ambushes, and generally make it the hardest possible for them to get your keep.

And when finally a clue has been installed after defeating 6 or 7 qzergs in a row from both sides, the raids begin. This is where having multiple battlegroups coordinating across the map gets you results faster and also allows you to react better to random incursions.

If i’m around and running things, beware! Commander Kaga farms j00, ktrainer !

I usually am running things starting from the 10pm eastern reset. And yes, I’ve had flawless defense matches.

( and as for the ktrain itself, I predict they will buzz off to pavillon next week. And i’m perfectly fine with them going back to pveland, where they belong.)

The problem with EotM is that the individual rewards far, far, faaaaaar outweigh anything else.

Why intentionally fight other uncoordinated blobs, when you can just secure champ bags and badges objective after objective?

Why fight another uncoordinated blob, when your own is just as uncoordinated and only a minority willing to charge against another blob?

In WvW, PPT seem to make some players wanting to defend and therefore try to “win” a matchup. This defensive mentality then lowers the individual reward for others, because suddenly there are now defended keeps and an uncoordinated blob isn’t enough to ktrain, because now it takes longer to secure a keep and success may not even be possible.

However, in EotM, where the individual reward are just this good, it’s not a surprise most people’s goal is to ktrain. It’s already discussed on every PvE map the potential leveling and reward possibilities of an effective EotM train. It will continue to be advertised as such, as long as individual rewards is way better than any sentimental efforts to “win” in a EotM matchup. Frankly, I don’t see this getting changed anytime soon either. On the contrary, more and more PvErs will realize how good the rewards are, and more will head there specifically for the “ktrain” ride.

Tachii.3506:

This defensive mentality then lowers the individual reward for others, because suddenly there are now defended keeps and an uncoordinated blob isn’t enough to ktrain, because now it takes longer to secure a keep and success may not even be possible.

You ask me, Why fight?
I’m asking YOU : Why aren’t you fighting ?

Boo hoohoo people are defending and it’s not as easy to ktrain ?

Unless you’re willing to fight for it, and win, you don’t deserve that reward. You don’t deserve that dragonite. In fact, you don’t deserve loots, AT ALL!

This carebear-like “Why are j00 fighting?” bleeting is EXACTLY why I fight. I fight to keep the lot of you away from the dragonite. I fight to farm you and your zergling friends by the 50 when I tag all of you with burning oil. I fight because if the bags on legs walk into my slice, they don’t deserve to walk off unchallenged.

I fight to crush your choochoomander’s spirits and show them that just because you can blow 100g on a blue corn doritos doesn’t mean you have the capacity to fight and lead other players in a pvp environment. No pity for choochoomanders.

I fight…. because that’s what I do. It’s what I’m here for.

Coincidentally, Frostkeep is also an excellent “Maguuma command simulator” since you’re outnumbered all the time. So you have to make it work with what’s available. And believe me when I say this : Your tears empower me.

this thread even funnier than the previous one.

most people come to EOTM to level alts / farm WXP – this is just a simple fact.

1. the fastest way of grinding WXP is to flip objectives. Even for OG – you can kill FR/BL 2-3 times and they stop dropping WXP for you. Let em flip your corner, port back and you get kitten load of WXP right at your waypoint

2. guilds who “farm bags” just bring their names into discredit. its quite obvious that pug zerg without comms can do nothing about semi-pug zerg with comms even on even numbers. people who do that might be just mad cause of season place #4 (hi BG!) or smth else. go do GvG if you want “fights”

3. while EOTM might be good for farming kills for Ultimate Dominator most pugs are already familiar with what guild groups hunting them down can do – so they just leave map after a few wipes. New pugs join to produce new bags

Agg best EOTM guild, they drop hero banner and karma bonfires <3

you forgot mango pie trays!

Kaga.7629:

Tachii.3506:

This defensive mentality then lowers the individual reward for others, because suddenly there are now defended keeps and an uncoordinated blob isn’t enough to ktrain, because now it takes longer to secure a keep and success may not even be possible.

You ask me, Why fight?
I’m

Actually I wasn’t asking you at all. I’m asking you to put yourself in the shoes of everyone else who ktrains, because the answers for them are flat out a logical reward analysis and most casual players would choose their individual rewards over whatever you’d reason out for fighting.

Really don’t know why you went really off tangent with tears, kittening at ktrain commanders, and the like. Meh.

Skady.5916:

this thread even funnier than the previous one.

most people come to EOTM to level alts / farm WXP – this is just a simple fact.

1. the fastest way of grinding WXP is to flip objectives. Even for OG – you can kill FR/BL 2-3 times and they stop dropping WXP for you. Let em flip your corner, port back and you get kitten load of WXP right at your waypoint

2. guilds who “farm bags” just bring their names into discredit. its quite obvious that pug zerg without comms can do nothing about semi-pug zerg with comms even on even numbers. people who do that might be just mad cause of season place #4 (hi BG!) or smth else. go do GvG if you want “fights”

3. while EOTM might be good for farming kills for Ultimate Dominator most pugs are already familiar with what guild groups hunting them down can do – so they just leave map after a few wipes. New pugs join to produce new bags

Sounds like somebody got farmed in EOTM.

I have been a total of 10 hours maximum in EotM since release.. and i was excited about it.. at first.. but it has less to offer then pve.
Then again.. i don’t do blobs, never understood blobs and never will.
it’s the epitome of skilless, drone like, sheeple who are comfortable watching their favorite series while one person decides where to go and what to do.
That this could be fun for people goes beyond me.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

I have been a total of 10 hours maximum in EotM since release.. and i was excited about it.. at first.. but it has less to offer then pve.
Then again.. i don’t do blobs, never understood blobs and never will.
it’s the epitome of skilless, drone like, sheeple who are comfortable watching their favorite series while one person decides where to go and what to do.
That this could be fun for people goes beyond me.

Well armies usually have leader. Think how bad movie braveheart would be if William Wallace would just roam around.

Junkpile.7439:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

I have been a total of 10 hours maximum in EotM since release.. and i was excited about it.. at first.. but it has less to offer then pve.
Then again.. i don’t do blobs, never understood blobs and never will.
it’s the epitome of skilless, drone like, sheeple who are comfortable watching their favorite series while one person decides where to go and what to do.
That this could be fun for people goes beyond me.

Well armies usually have leader. Think how bad movie braveheart would be if William Wallace would just roam around.

actually he roamed quite well, broke into a keep killed the lord and jumped from the walls with his horse..
he also shoots lightning bolts from his kitten .. XD

Kaga.7629:

Tachii.3506:

This defensive mentality then lowers the individual reward for others, because suddenly there are now defended keeps and an uncoordinated blob isn’t enough to ktrain, because now it takes longer to secure a keep and success may not even be possible.

You ask me, Why fight?
I’m asking YOU : Why aren’t you fighting ?

Boo hoohoo people are defending and it’s not as easy to ktrain ?

Unless you’re willing to fight for it, and win, you don’t deserve that reward. You don’t deserve that dragonite. In fact, you don’t deserve loots, AT ALL!

This carebear-like “Why are j00 fighting?” bleeting is EXACTLY why I fight. I fight to keep the lot of you away from the dragonite. I fight to farm you and your zergling friends by the 50 when I tag all of you with burning oil. I fight because if the bags on legs walk into my slice, they don’t deserve to walk off unchallenged.

I fight to crush your choochoomander’s spirits and show them that just because you can blow 100g on a blue corn doritos doesn’t mean you have the capacity to fight and lead other players in a pvp environment. No pity for choochoomanders.

I fight…. because that’s what I do. It’s what I’m here for.

Coincidentally, Frostkeep is also an excellent “Maguuma command simulator” since you’re outnumbered all the time. So you have to make it work with what’s available. And believe me when I say this : Your tears empower me.

<3 this post.

I personally lvled 1 character in eotm and now i’m fighting side aswell, it was the most boring time ever to lvl up there, but the fastest.

If more people was like this EOTM would really be pvp environment as it intended to be.

Keep farming scrubs.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

I have been a total of 10 hours maximum in EotM since release.. and i was excited about it.. at first.. but it has less to offer then pve.
Then again.. i don’t do blobs, never understood blobs and never will.
it’s the epitome of skilless, drone like, sheeple who are comfortable watching their favorite series while one person decides where to go and what to do.
That this could be fun for people goes beyond me.

As a commander i do not understand either to be honest, but i know it can easily be fun for that one person

Come to EOTM and get your free bottle of

Kaga.7629:

Tachii.3506:

This defensive mentality then lowers the individual reward for others, because suddenly there are now defended keeps and an uncoordinated blob isn’t enough to ktrain, because now it takes longer to secure a keep and success may not even be possible.

You ask me, Why fight?
I’m asking YOU : Why aren’t you fighting ?

Boo hoohoo people are defending and it’s not as easy to ktrain ?

Unless you’re willing to fight for it, and win, you don’t deserve that reward. You don’t deserve that dragonite. In fact, you don’t deserve loots, AT ALL!

This carebear-like “Why are j00 fighting?” bleeting is EXACTLY why I fight. I fight to keep the lot of you away from the dragonite. I fight to farm you and your zergling friends by the 50 when I tag all of you with burning oil. I fight because if the bags on legs walk into my slice, they don’t deserve to walk off unchallenged.

I fight to crush your choochoomander’s spirits and show them that just because you can blow 100g on a blue corn doritos doesn’t mean you have the capacity to fight and lead other players in a pvp environment. No pity for choochoomanders.

I fight…. because that’s what I do. It’s what I’m here for.

Coincidentally, Frostkeep is also an excellent “Maguuma command simulator” since you’re outnumbered all the time. So you have to make it work with what’s available. And believe me when I say this : Your tears empower me.

get help dude

The problem with increasing rewards in WvW is that it then becomes more attractive to people who just farm loot. Do you really want to be crowded out of WvW because loot farmers are taking up all the slots?

Testing 1,2,3…