Guild Wars 2

Junkpile.7439:

Thief should win every 1 vs 1 match. They really doesn’t have any kind of chance to lose.

maybe if you play perma stealth. not all thieves like to use stealth though.

Sanduskel.1850:

Exhibit A. Another thief claiming that it’s all the fault of the “baddies.” Well those baddies are getting their revenge on our class. Just like the nerds laugh at the dumb jocks from high school who now clean toilets.

Multiple people dying to a single thief does make the players in question below average, to put it nicely. This is the case for any class managing to take out multiple enemies, and it’s certainly not limited to thieves. I’m not sure how this is anyone’s “fault,” kind of strange to put it that way. And you talk about people getting their revenge? When is that exactly? Revenge how? They’d better remove every single mechanic that kills bad players for some proper revenge, and that’s almost everything in the game. Good luck with that. You sure say some interesting things, it makes little sense though.

Sanduskel.1850:

And yet another example. A a thief, this overweening arrogance against other “baddies” is embarassing. Why aren’t these baddies complaining the same way about other classes? Logic please.

Because stealth is the mechanic many new players have the most problems with figuring out. Kind of obvious, really. And those people happen to get caught a lot by roaming thieves, so go figure.

I’d rather have stability and protection than stealth. I find GW2 stealth to be a more of a hindrance on my thief because so much of the profession is designed around using it. I prefer using non-stealth/non-venom skills, but it really chains me down to a very select build.

In any case, I got tired of every single patch nerfing the Thief so I play a Warrior now and I’m much happier. When they fix the thief I’ll be back, until then I’m sure there will be more nerfs, maybe stealth will get it, idk.

Sanduskel.1850:

And yet another example. A a thief, this overweening arrogance against other “baddies” is embarassing. Why aren’t these baddies complaining the same way about other classes? Logic please.

They do, they just don’t understand the mechanics and requirements. People used to QQ about eles being to strong, they cried about shatter mesmers (aka one trick ponies), they cried about 100b-warriors – all of them are mostly in-your-face-dps or nothing. Then all those things got nerfed or people learned to hard- and soft-counter such builds. Now everyone runs some sort of auto-proc-reliant condition or stunlock FotM build and feels great by stacking 4 to 5 heavy dps conditions on a target (almost) simultaneously. Those are the same players who cry about backstab hitting for 7k every 4 seconds while their conditions and range-aa eat through 10k HP in the same time without requiring melee range, good positioning and an afk-ing target…

Julie Yann.5379:

Tibstrike.2974:

Wait. We are supposed to inform people wish to fight them? In WvW? Lolwut?

We can see any other class coming and that is the problem. Thieves aresenal is full of cheap shots and have zero respect for players choosing that playstyle and abusing those mechanics. Personally, I think that stealth cheapens the game and should have never been implemented the way it was.

Dude. Read the kittening game description of thieves. The point is to be an unseeable enemy who jumps people. Why the kitten would they make a profession based around stealth if not to allow them to catch people unawares.

funny i don’t see nearly the # of complaints about other classes as I do about my class. I have people whispering me with hate because of the cheese specs used by some thieves.

Budchgon.2108:

My hate is for the crazy p/d Thief, the ones who hit you then vanish – blinding you – then hit again… rinse and repeat until you are either dead or run away. No way to fight back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmnFfCH8vXU

P/D is actually the combo I love using while leveling my thief alt in PvE. Stealth and #1 for that 6 stack of bleeding, #3 when they get close to back off while giving 2 stacks of torment, #2 for keeping them away, #4 to stop runners, #5 for a panic button stealth. It’s a really solid weapon set to use. I’d be terrified of fighting a thief using it, but all I see are permastealth thieves in WvW.

Sanduskel.1850:

funny i don’t see nearly the # of complaints about other classes as I do about my class. I have people whispering me with hate because of the cheese specs used by some thieves.

It’s completely pointless arguing with you lol. You just ignore most of the actual arguments, you take maybe one thing you think will prove your ‘point,’ and that’s it. For someone who has so much to say about the subject, you sure put little thought into it. You getting hate whispers because of cheese specs you’re not even using yourself is an excellent example, I’m not even sure why you even thought that was a meaningful contribution to the topic, or how it means anything at all. Are you sure you’re not just making stuff up right now?

These threads are always fun. Bunkers and bad thieves think stealth and high burst from stealth are fine. Everyone else thinks it’s stupid and broken to have that kind of defense on an otherwise glass cannon build.

What does a burst thief do when his health is low and his heal is on cooldown? Stealth and wait until things are back in his favor.

What does a burst ele do when his health is low and his heal is on cooldown? Die.

Caffynated.5713:

These threads are always fun. Bunkers and bad thieves think stealth and high burst from stealth are fine. Everyone else thinks it’s stupid and broken to have that kind of defense on an otherwise glass cannon build.

What does a burst thief do when his health is low and his heal is on cooldown? Stealth and wait until things are back in his favor.

What does a burst ele do when his health is low and his heal is on cooldown? Die.

exactly. this is why there are 10x more complaints about my class than against any other.

Okaishi.8320:

Sanduskel.1850:

funny i don’t see nearly the # of complaints about other classes as I do about my class. I have people whispering me with hate because of the cheese specs used by some thieves.

It’s completely pointless arguing with you lol. You just ignore most of the actual arguments, you take maybe one thing you think will prove your ‘point,’ and that’s it. For someone who has so much to say about the subject, you sure put little thought into it. You getting hate whispers because of cheese specs you’re not even using yourself is an excellent example, I’m not even sure why you even thought that was a meaningful contribution to the topic, or how it means anything at all. Are you sure you’re not just making stuff up right now?

i am really sorry you are struggling with your thief. however most of us thieves enjoy the class and don’t want the class to be overpowered. Perhaps you should try another class if you are struggling so much.

Tibstrike.2974:

Julie Yann.5379:

Tibstrike.2974:

Wait. We are supposed to inform people wish to fight them? In WvW? Lolwut?

We can see any other class coming and that is the problem. Thieves aresenal is full of cheap shots and have zero respect for players choosing that playstyle and abusing those mechanics. Personally, I think that stealth cheapens the game and should have never been implemented the way it was.

Dude. Read the kittening game description of thieves. The point is to be an unseeable enemy who jumps people. Why the kitten would they make a profession based around stealth if not to allow them to catch people unawares.

I know what it says, I don’t have to agree with, I just have to deal with it. I even rolled one to learn how it work to be it and to give it a try in case I might like it. I deleted him cause I couldn’t stand being that cheesy sneak catching people unawares. Made me feel like a scumbag. If you feel good about yourself for winning a fight by sucker punching your opponent then good for you Some of us have a little more honor and integrity. If by QQing the forum I can help change the thief into something less sleazy then that is what I will do.

Julie Yann.5379:

Tibstrike.2974:

Julie Yann.5379:

Tibstrike.2974:

Wait. We are supposed to inform people wish to fight them? In WvW? Lolwut?

We can see any other class coming and that is the problem. Thieves aresenal is full of cheap shots and have zero respect for players choosing that playstyle and abusing those mechanics. Personally, I think that stealth cheapens the game and should have never been implemented the way it was.

Dude. Read the kittening game description of thieves. The point is to be an unseeable enemy who jumps people. Why the kitten would they make a profession based around stealth if not to allow them to catch people unawares.

I know what it says, I don’t have to agree with, I just have to deal with it. I even rolled one to learn how it work to be it and to give it a try in case I might like it. I deleted him cause I couldn’t stand being that cheesy sneak catching people unawares. Made me feel like a scumbag. If you feel good about yourself for winning a fight by sucker punching your opponent then good for you Some of us have a little more honor and integrity. If by QQing the forum I can help change the thief into something less sleazy then that is what I will do.

Lol. Wow.

maeggle.6021:

-snip-

Oh I never said Thieves were OP. In fact I think they’re a bit of a one-trick pony.

But that doesn’t change the fact that Stealth is poorly designed by people who don’t really have a solid grasp of how class design should work.

Stealth to Thieves is a bit like what Divine Storm used to be for Paladins in WoW. It was their signature move that healed them, was AoE, did the most damage, applied Conditions etc.

It pretty much did everything which made the class overly dependent on it. This was deemed poor design and changed later on to diversify the play-style a little.

Stealth is a bit like that, except that it has no real cooldown (except for Revealed).

After reading this thread all i see is noobs and roleplayers complaining that stealth is cheesy and unhonorable… i am sorry but i think you did mistake by going into wvw, it is not dungeon nor it is DR role play bar.

Thieves are build around stealth, their entire survivability is based on it. Pretty much every class has access to really good aoe and CCs. If you can’t use them on thief, i am sorry to say but you are bad and either need to l2p or go back to pve.

Caffynated.5713:

These threads are always fun. Bunkers and bad thieves think stealth and high burst from stealth are fine. Everyone else thinks it’s stupid and broken to have that kind of defense on an otherwise glass cannon build.

What does a burst thief do when his health is low and his heal is on cooldown? Stealth and wait until things are back in his favor.

What does a burst ele do when his health is low and his heal is on cooldown? Die.

^^This is just another example how ignorant and misinformed people are.

Let’s take that scenario that thie fis on low HP and heal is on CD, meaning that he already engaged the fight, if thief engaged the fight meaning he used his ini so only form of stealth he has at that point is refuge. Let’s assume he used refuge and sits it out for full duration to have ini back. It doesn’t mean that w/e class he was fighting doesn’t have their CD back.

Stealth might allow you to excape fight but it doesn’t stop CDs from enemy to come back nor it allows you to capture any points. Thief running away means he lost fight, i don’t see what the issue there.

Now let’s talk about eles. Yes eles might be not that easy to play, but their heals and sustained is way better than thieves. An ele with same HP as thief would last way longer in a fight than thief. I saw an ele from BG dueling people, he had 12K HP yet he didn’t lose a single duel no matter who he fought simply because his dmg was high and his survival kit allowed him to keep his 12k HP up very well.

I am sorry that you are angry about the removal of perma stealth and other cheese thief builds, but believe me, it’s good for the game and for the class. People have a very strong hatred for a class that can stealth whenever they want during fights, and I for one am sick of my class getting smeared by the noobs who cant play without abusing a broken mechanic. ANET agrees. they called it abusing the mechanic. Funny how these ignorant and misinformed players mostly complain about cheese stealth builds.

Duels, lol. Ok. that’s not evidence.

Instead of telling others to l2p, take your own advice instead of criticizing anet for fixing our class.

Sanduskel.1850:

I am sorry that you are angry about the removal of perma stealth and other cheese thief builds, but believe me, it’s good for the game and for the class. People have a very strong hatred for a class that can stealth whenever they want during fights, and I for one am sick of my class getting smeared by the noobs who cant play without abusing a broken mechanic. ANET agrees. they called it abusing the mechanic. Funny how these ignorant and misinformed players mostly complain about cheese stealth builds.

Duels, lol. Ok. that’s not evidence.

Instead of telling others to l2p, take your own advice instead of criticizing anet for fixing our class.

Literally, your only arguement is about perma-stealth thieves. Most thieves are glad it’s being nerfed. No one in this thread is for perma-stealth thieves. I can’t wait to see what you constantly kitten about next on every thief-related thread on this site.

Brick Tamland.6507:

Sanduskel.1850:

I am sorry that you are angry about the removal of perma stealth and other cheese thief builds, but believe me, it’s good for the game and for the class. People have a very strong hatred for a class that can stealth whenever they want during fights, and I for one am sick of my class getting smeared by the noobs who cant play without abusing a broken mechanic. ANET agrees. they called it abusing the mechanic. Funny how these ignorant and misinformed players mostly complain about cheese stealth builds.

Duels, lol. Ok. that’s not evidence.

Instead of telling others to l2p, take your own advice instead of criticizing anet for fixing our class.

Literally, your only arguement is about perma-stealth thieves. Most thieves are glad it’s being nerfed. No one in this thread is for perma-stealth thieves. I can’t wait to see what you constantly kitten about next on every thief-related thread on this site.

I am not crying about anything. I agree with what ANET is doing. Why are you so vexed?

Most of the experienced thief community rerolled a warrior or guardian (ranger if they were masochistic). The only people I see playing thieves are good players and diehards. So if you die to a thief nowadays it’s because you got outplayed.

Sorry.

if they were so experienced why did they leave their thieves? many of us still enjoy the class. don’t really get it.

Julie Yann.5379:

Thieves aresenal is full of cheap shots and have zero respect for players choosing that playstyle and abusing those mechanics. Personally, I think…

I think you’re taking it too personally. People who play thieves aren’t bad people, and you should perhaps pause for the occasional deep breath.

As for the “you can’t see them coming,” this is going to change for the most part. Currently, there is a thief spec that can maintain stealth forever, and they can approach you from any distance without you noticing. That ends 12/10. The traits used to generate the massive amount of initiative needed for that are being well and truly nerfed. Other than the occasional long-cooldown utility, thief stealth will generally last exactly four seconds. In that time, they have to get to you, and behind you. It’s pretty easy to make that difficult.

Sanduskel.1850:

if they were so experienced why did they leave their thieves? many of us still enjoy the class. don’t really get it.

I think many folks have found that it’s a heck of a lot easier to succeed with a heavy class. The path of least resistance is usually the most popular route.

I play my thief instead of my warrior or guard because the thief is more fun. The other two are ‘better’ in the sense that I am more likely to win most engagements, but the thief playstyle is a hoot.

Add to that folks who are quitting thief because of the permastealth nerfs. I’m in the camp that is happy those specs will vanish. They were clearly cheesy and gave all thieves a bad name.

Oghier.7419:

Sanduskel.1850:

if they were so experienced why did they leave their thieves? many of us still enjoy the class. don’t really get it.

I think many folks have found that it’s a heck of a lot easier to succeed with a heavy class. The path of least resistance is usually the most popular route.

I play my thief instead of my warrior or guard because the thief is more fun. The other two are ‘better’ in the sense that I am more likely to win most engagements, but the thief playstyle is a hoot.

Add to that folks who are quitting thief because of the permastealth nerfs. I’m in the camp that is happy those specs will vanish. They were clearly cheesy and gave all thieves a bad name.

Well I agree with you! I will be happy to see all the scrubs who relied on the cheesy permastealth leave. Maybe our class will get some love as a result.

Oghier.7419:

Sanduskel.1850:

if they were so experienced why did they leave their thieves? many of us still enjoy the class. don’t really get it.

I think many folks have found that it’s a heck of a lot easier to succeed with a heavy class. The path of least resistance is usually the most popular route.

I play my thief instead of my warrior or guard because the thief is more fun. The other two are ‘better’ in the sense that I am more likely to win most engagements, but the thief playstyle is a hoot.

Add to that folks who are quitting thief because of the permastealth nerfs. I’m in the camp that is happy those specs will vanish. They were clearly cheesy and gave all thieves a bad name.

They actually left because thieves can’t contribute anything other than exploits, finishers and spike damage (which is also getting an indirect nerf) combined with the hit to survivability traits.

And before you you even ask, the survivability of a thief relies on their initiative more than stealth. It gives access to evades on command, stealth on command and it’s extension, blinds. But there is nothing a thief has beyond that to soften the blows of other professions. Once our initiative is gone, we lose access to every ability we have on both weapon sets until there is enough initiative to use it.

Our condition removal is complete kitten, pigeonholed into builds that use stealth or sword, and heal scaling is horrible that its much better to gear and spec for damage rather than survivability. So taking so much as a slap is more threatening on a thief than it is on any other profession because we have little to compensate for it (and we do get hit regardless if we are stealthed or not).

None of you understand.

So the Op Elitist Tyrranize Stealth mechanic still lives on, well, we will see in Dec 10 if Arena.net is serious about preventing more faithful players from leaving the game.

So many had left this game due to this mechanic, yet no change of heart from Arena.net for implementing counters to stealth, or removing Perma-stealth and stealth altogether.

1 year later, nothing.

Like someone said in a mmo forum, “any game company who implements stealth mechanics, are practitioners of oppression”)

I’ll leave it at that, with no objection.

(Dec 10 will either be the day of Salvation or Eternal Death for the future of Guild Wars 2).

Sanduskel.1850:

As a thief, i can do that and remain stealthed. (snip) as long as thieves can kill without risks because of cheesy specs, anet will continue to keep us in the cellar.

Please teach me your ways of being able to backstab and still remain stealthed.

Junkpile.7439:

Thief should win every 1 vs 1 fight. They really doesn’t have any kind of chance to lose.

Thieves are NOT the best 1v1 class. A good Eng will rotflstomp them (without perplexity). They won’t beat a good mes either… or a good guard…

They are not the best small/large group class.

People complain when a thief attacks them while they are already fighting some one else. If a good player on ANY class jumps in while you’re already busy you’re toast.

What are thieves good at? Scouting, killing yaks, tapping keeps/tower, etc.

Despite this people QQ about thieves all day long. Why? Because they can’t be bothered to learn to fight them. Learn how/when to cc a thief. Learn to predict them (they are very predictable). Although d/p is cheezy right now (getting nerfed) I sure as kitten won’t die from one. At most thieves are annoyances… and are usually free loot bags.

As others have said if this was mesmer PU complaint, I might agree. But thief of all things? No.

Aberrant.6749:

Sanduskel.1850:

As a thief, i can do that and remain stealthed. (snip) as long as thieves can kill without risks because of cheesy specs, anet will continue to keep us in the cellar.

Please teach me your ways of being able to backstab and still remain stealthed.

Thieves are NOT the best 1v1 class. They are not the best small group class. They are not the best large group class. People complain when a thief attacks them while they are already fighting some one else. If a good player on ANY class jumps in while you’re already busy you’re toast. What are thieves good at? Scouting, killing yaks, tapping keeps/tower, etc.

Despite this people QQ about thieves all day long. Why? Because they can’t be bothered to learn to fight them. I have a thief. I hardly ever play it anymore (it was my first 80). I can beat a thief on all of my other 80’s (save ele who I literally got to 80 from crafting then used for cloth storage). Learn how/when to cc a thief. Learn to predict them (they are very predictable). Although d/p is cheezy right now (getting nerfed) I sure as kitten won’t die from one. At most thieves are annoyances… and are usually free loot bags.

As others have said if this was mesmer PU complaint, I might agree. But thief of all things? No.

You must admit, thief stealth counter attacks everything you just stated.

The issue is not with thief class, it’s with their stealth mechanic.

=resetting fights… should be enough for you to not be in denial.

Also, you can agree that, any game company who impliments this mechanic to a profession make this profession a god.

As the saying goes, “One who master Time, is indeed a God”

In guild Wars 2

Thief

Zacchary.6183:

Oghier.7419:

Sanduskel.1850:

if they were so experienced why did they leave their thieves? many of us still enjoy the class. don’t really get it.

I think many folks have found that it’s a heck of a lot easier to succeed with a heavy class. The path of least resistance is usually the most popular route.

I play my thief instead of my warrior or guard because the thief is more fun. The other two are ‘better’ in the sense that I am more likely to win most engagements, but the thief playstyle is a hoot.

Add to that folks who are quitting thief because of the permastealth nerfs. I’m in the camp that is happy those specs will vanish. They were clearly cheesy and gave all thieves a bad name.

They actually left because thieves can’t contribute anything other than exploits, finishers and spike damage (which is also getting an indirect nerf) combined with the hit to survivability traits.

And before you you even ask, the survivability of a thief relies on their initiative more than stealth. It gives access to evades on command, stealth on command and it’s extension, blinds. But there is nothing a thief has beyond that to soften the blows of other professions. Once our initiative is gone, we lose access to every ability we have on both weapon sets until there is enough initiative to use it.

Our condition removal is complete kitten, pigeonholed into builds that use stealth or sword, and heal scaling is horrible that its much better to gear and spec for damage rather than survivability. So taking so much as a slap is more threatening on a thief than it is on any other profession because we have little to compensate for it (and we do get hit regardless if we are stealthed or not).

None of you understand.

stop exaggerating, lol. thieves are fine and will get stronger in december. Anet said so.

Burnfall.9573:

Aberrant.6749:

Sanduskel.1850:

As a thief, i can do that and remain stealthed. (snip) as long as thieves can kill without risks because of cheesy specs, anet will continue to keep us in the cellar.

Please teach me your ways of being able to backstab and still remain stealthed.

Thieves are NOT the best 1v1 class. They are not the best small group class. They are not the best large group class. People complain when a thief attacks them while they are already fighting some one else. If a good player on ANY class jumps in while you’re already busy you’re toast. What are thieves good at? Scouting, killing yaks, tapping keeps/tower, etc.

Despite this people QQ about thieves all day long. Why? Because they can’t be bothered to learn to fight them. I have a thief. I hardly ever play it anymore (it was my first 80). I can beat a thief on all of my other 80’s (save ele who I literally got to 80 from crafting then used for cloth storage). Learn how/when to cc a thief. Learn to predict them (they are very predictable). Although d/p is cheezy right now (getting nerfed) I sure as kitten won’t die from one. At most thieves are annoyances… and are usually free loot bags.

As others have said if this was mesmer PU complaint, I might agree. But thief of all things? No.

You must admit, thief stealth counter attacks everything you just stated.

The issue is not with thief class, it’s with their stealth mechanic.

=resetting fights… should be enough for you to not be in denial.

No it doesn’t… thief stealths (they’ll be going in for a backstab). I use the block/stun on my eng’s shield then pounce. They SR, I use the knockback from my shield to knock them out. They put down a BP, if they are out of blind shot range, I use magnet and yank them (large ini loss). If they are in blind shot range I’ll toss nades at the BP. I could go on and on.

Aberrant.6749:

Burnfall.9573:

Aberrant.6749:

Sanduskel.1850:

As a thief, i can do that and remain stealthed. (snip) as long as thieves can kill without risks because of cheesy specs, anet will continue to keep us in the cellar.

Please teach me your ways of being able to backstab and still remain stealthed.

Thieves are NOT the best 1v1 class. They are not the best small group class. They are not the best large group class. People complain when a thief attacks them while they are already fighting some one else. If a good player on ANY class jumps in while you’re already busy you’re toast. What are thieves good at? Scouting, killing yaks, tapping keeps/tower, etc.

Despite this people QQ about thieves all day long. Why? Because they can’t be bothered to learn to fight them. I have a thief. I hardly ever play it anymore (it was my first 80). I can beat a thief on all of my other 80’s (save ele who I literally got to 80 from crafting then used for cloth storage). Learn how/when to cc a thief. Learn to predict them (they are very predictable). Although d/p is cheezy right now (getting nerfed) I sure as kitten won’t die from one. At most thieves are annoyances… and are usually free loot bags.

As others have said if this was mesmer PU complaint, I might agree. But thief of all things? No.

You must admit, thief stealth counter attacks everything you just stated.

The issue is not with thief class, it’s with their stealth mechanic.

=resetting fights… should be enough for you to not be in denial.

No it doesn’t… thief stealths (they’ll be going in for a backstab). I use the block/stun on my eng’s shield then pounce. They SR, I use the knockback from my shield to knock them out. They put down a BP, if they are out of blind shot range, I use magnet and yank them (large ini loss). If they are in blind shot range I’ll toss nades at the BP. I could go on and on.

Burnfall.9573:

Aberrant.6749:

Burnfall.9573:

Aberrant.6749:

Sanduskel.1850:

As a thief, i can do that and remain stealthed. (snip) as long as thieves can kill without risks because of cheesy specs, anet will continue to keep us in the cellar.

Please teach me your ways of being able to backstab and still remain stealthed.

Thieves are NOT the best 1v1 class. They are not the best small group class. They are not the best large group class. People complain when a thief attacks them while they are already fighting some one else. If a good player on ANY class jumps in while you’re already busy you’re toast. What are thieves good at? Scouting, killing yaks, tapping keeps/tower, etc.

Despite this people QQ about thieves all day long. Why? Because they can’t be bothered to learn to fight them. I have a thief. I hardly ever play it anymore (it was my first 80). I can beat a thief on all of my other 80’s (save ele who I literally got to 80 from crafting then used for cloth storage). Learn how/when to cc a thief. Learn to predict them (they are very predictable). Although d/p is cheezy right now (getting nerfed) I sure as kitten won’t die from one. At most thieves are annoyances… and are usually free loot bags.

As others have said if this was mesmer PU complaint, I might agree. But thief of all things? No.

You must admit, thief stealth counter attacks everything you just stated.

The issue is not with thief class, it’s with their stealth mechanic.

=resetting fights… should be enough for you to not be in denial.

No it doesn’t… thief stealths (they’ll be going in for a backstab). I use the block/stun on my eng’s shield then pounce. They SR, I use the knockback from my shield to knock them out. They put down a BP, if they are out of blind shot range, I use magnet and yank them (large ini loss). If they are in blind shot range I’ll toss nades at the BP. I could go on and on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Lh8Oogl6Y

Did you see anyone in his vids do the sort of things I was talking about? No… you see people doing things like using ranged attacks Vs. daggerstorm >.< Thief is very good against bad players, I’ll give the class that. As the skill of the players involved goes up the thief gets weaker.

It drives me nuts to see people not doing the things they should on the classes that I play.

Agree with OP.

There is no other class in this game that deserves a nerf every patch like thieves.

Even though I have a harder time with other classes and by other classes I mean Mesmers.

Thieves permanently being invisible for an entire fight is total and complete bull kitten.

“Yup, that was totally fair. Did you see the way he kited that guy who couldn’t see him or target him for 45 of the 47 second long fight? What a Noob, l2p.”

I don’t always agree with how Anet balances classes, but I fully agree with each and every thief specific nerf.

Tell you what Anet… if the thieves get nerfed again next patch I might even buy some gems from your store with real money.

That’s a Win Win for all.

Aberrant.6749:

Burnfall.9573:

Aberrant.6749:

Burnfall.9573:

Aberrant.6749:

Sanduskel.1850:

As a thief, i can do that and remain stealthed. (snip) as long as thieves can kill without risks because of cheesy specs, anet will continue to keep us in the cellar.

Please teach me your ways of being able to backstab and still remain stealthed.

Thieves are NOT the best 1v1 class. They are not the best small group class. They are not the best large group class. People complain when a thief attacks them while they are already fighting some one else. If a good player on ANY class jumps in while you’re already busy you’re toast. What are thieves good at? Scouting, killing yaks, tapping keeps/tower, etc.

Despite this people QQ about thieves all day long. Why? Because they can’t be bothered to learn to fight them. I have a thief. I hardly ever play it anymore (it was my first 80). I can beat a thief on all of my other 80’s (save ele who I literally got to 80 from crafting then used for cloth storage). Learn how/when to cc a thief. Learn to predict them (they are very predictable). Although d/p is cheezy right now (getting nerfed) I sure as kitten won’t die from one. At most thieves are annoyances… and are usually free loot bags.

As others have said if this was mesmer PU complaint, I might agree. But thief of all things? No.

You must admit, thief stealth counter attacks everything you just stated.

The issue is not with thief class, it’s with their stealth mechanic.

=resetting fights… should be enough for you to not be in denial.

No it doesn’t… thief stealths (they’ll be going in for a backstab). I use the block/stun on my eng’s shield then pounce. They SR, I use the knockback from my shield to knock them out. They put down a BP, if they are out of blind shot range, I use magnet and yank them (large ini loss). If they are in blind shot range I’ll toss nades at the BP. I could go on and on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Lh8Oogl6Y

Did you see anyone in his vids do the sort of things I was talking about? No…

Did you see the failed results of block and stun on the thief in the videos?

Oh wait! i forgot…

You can not stun or block STEALTH.

Burnfall.9573:

Aberrant.6749:

Burnfall.9573:

Aberrant.6749:

Burnfall.9573:

Aberrant.6749:

Sanduskel.1850:

As a thief, i can do that and remain stealthed. (snip) as long as thieves can kill without risks because of cheesy specs, anet will continue to keep us in the cellar.

Please teach me your ways of being able to backstab and still remain stealthed.

Thieves are NOT the best 1v1 class. They are not the best small group class. They are not the best large group class. People complain when a thief attacks them while they are already fighting some one else. If a good player on ANY class jumps in while you’re already busy you’re toast. What are thieves good at? Scouting, killing yaks, tapping keeps/tower, etc.

Despite this people QQ about thieves all day long. Why? Because they can’t be bothered to learn to fight them. I have a thief. I hardly ever play it anymore (it was my first 80). I can beat a thief on all of my other 80’s (save ele who I literally got to 80 from crafting then used for cloth storage). Learn how/when to cc a thief. Learn to predict them (they are very predictable). Although d/p is cheezy right now (getting nerfed) I sure as kitten won’t die from one. At most thieves are annoyances… and are usually free loot bags.

As others have said if this was mesmer PU complaint, I might agree. But thief of all things? No.

You must admit, thief stealth counter attacks everything you just stated.

The issue is not with thief class, it’s with their stealth mechanic.

=resetting fights… should be enough for you to not be in denial.

No it doesn’t… thief stealths (they’ll be going in for a backstab). I use the block/stun on my eng’s shield then pounce. They SR, I use the knockback from my shield to knock them out. They put down a BP, if they are out of blind shot range, I use magnet and yank them (large ini loss). If they are in blind shot range I’ll toss nades at the BP. I could go on and on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Lh8Oogl6Y

Did you see anyone in his vids do the sort of things I was talking about? No…

Did you see the failed results of block and stun on the thief in the videos?

Oh wait! i forgot…

you can not stun or block STEALTH.

Burnfall.9573:

Aberrant.6749:

Burnfall.9573:

Aberrant.6749:

Burnfall.9573:

Aberrant.6749:

Sanduskel.1850:

As a thief, i can do that and remain stealthed. (snip) as long as thieves can kill without risks because of cheesy specs, anet will continue to keep us in the cellar.

Please teach me your ways of being able to backstab and still remain stealthed.

Thieves are NOT the best 1v1 class. They are not the best small group class. They are not the best large group class. People complain when a thief attacks them while they are already fighting some one else. If a good player on ANY class jumps in while you’re already busy you’re toast. What are thieves good at? Scouting, killing yaks, tapping keeps/tower, etc.

Despite this people QQ about thieves all day long. Why? Because they can’t be bothered to learn to fight them. I have a thief. I hardly ever play it anymore (it was my first 80). I can beat a thief on all of my other 80’s (save ele who I literally got to 80 from crafting then used for cloth storage). Learn how/when to cc a thief. Learn to predict them (they are very predictable). Although d/p is cheezy right now (getting nerfed) I sure as kitten won’t die from one. At most thieves are annoyances… and are usually free loot bags.

As others have said if this was mesmer PU complaint, I might agree. But thief of all things? No.

You must admit, thief stealth counter attacks everything you just stated.

The issue is not with thief class, it’s with their stealth mechanic.

=resetting fights… should be enough for you to not be in denial.

No it doesn’t… thief stealths (they’ll be going in for a backstab). I use the block/stun on my eng’s shield then pounce. They SR, I use the knockback from my shield to knock them out. They put down a BP, if they are out of blind shot range, I use magnet and yank them (large ini loss). If they are in blind shot range I’ll toss nades at the BP. I could go on and on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Lh8Oogl6Y

Did you see anyone in his vids do the sort of things I was talking about? No…

Did you see the failed results of block and stun on the thief in the videos?

Oh wait! i forgot…

You can not stun or block STEALTH.

You can prevent the thief from ever entering stealth save the blinding powder utility/blinding powder on fall damage/blinding powder at 25% (the last one there usually kills thieves). L2P issue. You’ve been told all of this many times before burn… and still choose to ignore it, choose not to learn to fight against it, and just complain over and over on the forums.

Stx.4857:

Oh and 7k backstabs on a target with armor? Please.

If a thief is built to deal that much damage, a sneeze will kill him. A slight breeze.

lol 7k is pretty low. if u are a light armor then u will see stuff like 13k happening even with full pvt or rabid gear. the problem is that thieves can go ful berserk gear without any risks due to stealth. and stealth is a problem for classes that require a target.

as a mesmer i have little access to aoe and staff and scepter and all phantasms require a target so sometime its pretty frustrating. i dont mind the thieves mobility, but stealth just gives too much of an advantage in gw 2. in every other game u have a way to counter stealth or there was at least a 7 sec cooldown on it.

selan.8354:

the problem is that thieves can go ful berserk gear without any risks due to stealth.

Wat. If you can’t down a full glass thief in the time they are revealed, then you still have a lot to learn.

Burnfall.9573:

Did you see the failed results of block and stun on the thief in the videos?

Oh wait! i forgot…

You can not stun or block STEALTH.

Let me help you.

The thief in those videos, Yishi, is playing a classic D/D burst spec. He usually enters stealth with his #5 skill, Cloak and Dagger. This is a melee attack that can, in fact, be blocked, dodged, blinded, etc, just like any other melee strike. A failed CnD costs you about half your initiative pool.

I’m also not sure that you learn much about class balance by watching a really, really good player take out folks who are a little downslope of him on the skill curve. Every class has those videos.

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

Oghier.7419:

Sanduskel.1850:

if they were so experienced why did they leave their thieves? many of us still enjoy the class. don’t really get it.

I think many folks have found that it’s a heck of a lot easier to succeed with a heavy class. The path of least resistance is usually the most popular route.

I play my thief instead of my warrior or guard because the thief is more fun. The other two are ‘better’ in the sense that I am more likely to win most engagements, but the thief playstyle is a hoot.

Add to that folks who are quitting thief because of the permastealth nerfs. I’m in the camp that is happy those specs will vanish. They were clearly cheesy and gave all thieves a bad name.

They actually left because thieves can’t contribute anything other than exploits, finishers and spike damage (which is also getting an indirect nerf) combined with the hit to survivability traits.

And before you you even ask, the survivability of a thief relies on their initiative more than stealth. It gives access to evades on command, stealth on command and it’s extension, blinds. But there is nothing a thief has beyond that to soften the blows of other professions. Once our initiative is gone, we lose access to every ability we have on both weapon sets until there is enough initiative to use it.

Our condition removal is complete kitten, pigeonholed into builds that use stealth or sword, and heal scaling is horrible that its much better to gear and spec for damage rather than survivability. So taking so much as a slap is more threatening on a thief than it is on any other profession because we have little to compensate for it (and we do get hit regardless if we are stealthed or not).

None of you understand.

stop exaggerating, lol. thieves are fine and will get stronger in december. Anet said so.

How would you know since you spend more time on the forums trying to destroy a profession than actually playing the game (or the profession for that matter)?

Zacchary.6183:

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

Oghier.7419:

Sanduskel.1850:

if they were so experienced why did they leave their thieves? many of us still enjoy the class. don’t really get it.

I think many folks have found that it’s a heck of a lot easier to succeed with a heavy class. The path of least resistance is usually the most popular route.

I play my thief instead of my warrior or guard because the thief is more fun. The other two are ‘better’ in the sense that I am more likely to win most engagements, but the thief playstyle is a hoot.

Add to that folks who are quitting thief because of the permastealth nerfs. I’m in the camp that is happy those specs will vanish. They were clearly cheesy and gave all thieves a bad name.

They actually left because thieves can’t contribute anything other than exploits, finishers and spike damage (which is also getting an indirect nerf) combined with the hit to survivability traits.

And before you you even ask, the survivability of a thief relies on their initiative more than stealth. It gives access to evades on command, stealth on command and it’s extension, blinds. But there is nothing a thief has beyond that to soften the blows of other professions. Once our initiative is gone, we lose access to every ability we have on both weapon sets until there is enough initiative to use it.

Our condition removal is complete kitten, pigeonholed into builds that use stealth or sword, and heal scaling is horrible that its much better to gear and spec for damage rather than survivability. So taking so much as a slap is more threatening on a thief than it is on any other profession because we have little to compensate for it (and we do get hit regardless if we are stealthed or not).

None of you understand.

stop exaggerating, lol. thieves are fine and will get stronger in december. Anet said so.

How would you know since you spend more time on the forums trying to get a profession nerfed than actually playing the game (or the profession for that matter)?

if you can’t play and post, you clearly have a lot to learn!

selan.8354:

Stx.4857:

Oh and 7k backstabs on a target with armor? Please.

If a thief is built to deal that much damage, a sneeze will kill him. A slight breeze.

lol 7k is pretty low. if u are a light armor then u will see stuff like 13k happening even with full pvt or rabid gear. the problem is that thieves can go ful berserk gear without any risks due to stealth. and stealth is a problem for classes that require a target.

as a mesmer i have little access to aoe and staff and scepter and all phantasms require a target so sometime its pretty frustrating. i dont mind the thieves mobility, but stealth just gives too much of an advantage in gw 2. in every other game u have a way to counter stealth or there was at least a 7 sec cooldown on it.

Errm a mesmer of equal skill should never lose to a thief, seriously!!. Back stab is single target keep you clones at your back and let them take the hit. Also phantasm mesmer and blackwater build are among the strongest dueslist specs in the game if you cant beat a thief as a memser its a very big learn to play issue.

This is to the stealth thief players; Does Invisibility ever tell Visibility to learn how to play?

Does Invisibility ever tell Visibility, to know how to and when to; to evade, dodge, stun and counter it?

Because it alarms me when stealth thief players are blaming non stealth classes for not being able to see them or play with them.

The non stealth community and I, are very curious in knowing the answers.

-Thanks-.

Burn… we’ve told you and other players how many times how to counter thieves. Feel free to ask in your own class forums what your fellow players do against them. If that’s not enough, play a thief for a while and when you fight one later, think to yourself “what would I do as a thief in this situation” and counter that (learn some basic prediction).

Just crying for nerfs constantly isn’t going to make you a better player.

Aberrant.6749:

Burn… we’ve told you and other players how many times how to counter thieves.

yes, i know

sadly, i’ve given up long time ago.

This time, i’m not asking for nerfs but to have counters against thief stealth.

(I just don’t like the fact when some thief players blame other non stealth class players of not being able to kill them; that is why i honor and respect non stealth thief players for playing fair)

A very serious question to Arena.net, why didn’t you implement the same mechanics in Guild War Assassin to the thief class?

If you had honored it, thief class wouldn’t be blacklisted and hated among the other classes.

In other word, they are not responsible for having a broken class.

As the saying goes, “give me a broken stick, and i will break it more”

-That is exactly what they’ve done-

Sorry you couldn’t learn how to counter thieves. It is very doable with pratice though.

I don’t play my thief much anymore (mostly just get on it for daily gathering/yak slapping/sentry capping etc.) because I find the class to be fairly easy to counter unless the other player is bad (and I don’t just want to kill baddies).

I don’t like how people portray the thief class as easy/godmode. I’m willing to help those who are willing to help themselves get better.

Thief is blacklisted from what btw? o.O

Thief is hardly broken, you’ve just given up on learning how to fight them (not that hard imo, but somewhat class dependent).

Caffynated.5713:

These threads are always fun. Bunkers and bad thieves think stealth and high burst from stealth are fine. Everyone else thinks it’s stupid and broken to have that kind of defense on an otherwise glass cannon build.

What does a burst thief do when his health is low and his heal is on cooldown? Stealth and wait until things are back in his favor.

What does a burst ele do when his health is low and his heal is on cooldown? Die.

see the thing is stealth is deception, not defense. all thief big dmg comes from melee, so the only way they can kill you is to get next to you again. slash the air and dnt present an easy back target, while thief is reseting, so are you. If you are an ele you can just put down aoe burning fields and the thief will die coming for you. It has no hp, few condi cleanses, and little to no access to protection. play a thief, you will find out it is the glassiest char in the game

If you cannot kill a thief of (allegedly) equal skill who uses stealth offensively, you are bad.
Just plain. You are bad. Full stop.

As for defensive stealth, what do you think how much issues I sometime have to stop a guardian, or even warrior or necro with full DS, who just speed through any attempts to kill/slow I throw at them due to their innate defensiveness and cheap condi cleanses/blocks? Yeah, making thieves more innately sturdy, so they don’t die to a stiff breeze passively, isn’t exactly the solution we’re looking for in class balance. (Also they’re called rangers)

Sanduskel.1850:

i am really sorry you are struggling with your thief. however most of us thieves enjoy the class and don’t want the class to be overpowered. Perhaps you should try another class if you are struggling so much.

Haha, now I’m struggling on my thief? That’s hilarious. Congratulations on making more random stuff up, I wish I knew where to find you in WvW.

I agree with you the nerf to perma stealth is good. Other than that it doesn’t need much more changes.

In spite of how many times these hate-stealth threads show up, and in spite of the fact that just about every survey ever taken on these forums list thieves as one of the least useful classes in a group environment (which covers a very large portion of GW2), these threads do serve kind of a valuable purpose. They identify which players don’t really know what they’re doing and instead mistake “irritating” for “overpowered.”

Oghier.7419:

Julie Yann.5379:

Thieves aresenal is full of cheap shots and have zero respect for players choosing that playstyle and abusing those mechanics. Personally, I think…

I think you’re taking it too personally. People who play thieves aren’t bad people, and you should perhaps pause for the occasional deep breath.

As for the “you can’t see them coming,” this is going to change for the most part. Currently, there is a thief spec that can maintain stealth forever, and they can approach you from any distance without you noticing. That ends 12/10. The traits used to generate the massive amount of initiative needed for that are being well and truly nerfed. Other than the occasional long-cooldown utility, thief stealth will generally last exactly four seconds. In that time, they have to get to you, and behind you. It’s pretty easy to make that difficult.

I might of came on a little strong. I didn’t mean no respect to them as an individual. I meant no respect for them as a player. I’ve been on the receiving end of those surprise attacks many times (sometimes I lose to them too) and it is cheap. I could not imagine myself resorting to that to get some wins. In my mind any wins a thief may get using those tactics are void.