Guild Wars 2

The difference is, a pre-HoT Nike Warrior was not going to pop invuln, stability, resistance and deal massive damage while still being able to escape and disengage once those are on cooldown.

Any warrior who over relies on resistance will be vulnerable to boon steal/corruption.

Also, thieves that build for extra mobility are the ones who will outrun this kind of build. A thief who doesn’t may have difficulty depending on how far the warrior has to run.

To provide a little context, a thief can take the Shadow Arts trait line. Few take this line because they think it will neuter their damage too much. Most take trickery, which can reduce the time on steal to 20 seconds—but this depends on a target for the teleport aspect.

Thief with daredevil has (1) a 900 range teleport on shortbow that can be spammed at full initiative slightly less than three times, (2) a steal that will travel 1200 distance, (3) a shadowstep utility that will also travel 1200 distance, (4) 3-5 dodges (depending on circumstances) that come with a 450 distance dash. I’m honestly not sure how far the dashes move you compared to having swiftness and just running in the same direction. Ignoring that, a thief can travel over the course of a few seconds (assuming initiative is full) 900×3 + 1200 x2 for a total of 5100 distance + dash/running distance.

Sustained distance gain from teleport over time isn’t something I’ve calculated.

coro.3176:

… lots of good stuff…

At the end of the day, that warrior is a hard-counter to rifle engi. The problem is that warrior is a hard counter/play for many players no matter the class.
I have a real hard time against warriors to the point where I just refuse to engage them (1v1) most times. It’s not a fun fight. Period.

@Jim Hunter, no, one stun break will not be the difference in that fight.

And the engi that can keep pace with the runaway warrior has a severely kitten build.

Pre-HoT, dueling a Warrior with my Engi used to be a really fun fight. It was like playing Street Fighter. You both go at each other with attacks. Whoever landed their big hits while dodging their opponent’s would win.

I miss that.

Now, it’s more like “Aw kitten they’ve got stab and invuln and alltheboons, better run away and break combat … phew. made it, okay their stances are done. Time to turn around and fight .. aaaand they’re running away. sigh.. Oh no! Their stances are up again? better run away and break combat”

Warrior is really easy to play atm… just like any other hots spec. But broken? If you see someone winning a 3v1 that means one thing: A good player killing very bad players. No matter what profession or build the good player is running, he will always kill bad players if he is good at that profession. You cant say something is broken in that scenario. After that, not even worth to talk about the other “broken” things on warrior… Sorry my bad english

zinkz.7045:

babazhook.6805:

The ability to disengage and “reset” a fight is integral to the game. It is a premise around which entire classes are built. Not all classes can stick in battle and survive so one of their options is disengage.

Except the game was designed around PvP where there is a certain level of balance to being able to disengage/reset a fight, because it comes with the cost that you lose control of a capture point, the score continues to tick away and you’ve just used your time ineffectively in terms of winning the match.

When roaming in WvW however that balance/cost is not there, if I am losing a fight and on a class/build that can easily disengage, not only is there no cost to it, but I can basically get away with screwing up (bar doing so catastrophically) in a way classes/builds that cannot disengage so well are punished with.

Which is of course is why the entire game mes & thief have been so common when roaming, and why currently you also see a lot of druids & warriors, they break the rather fundamental principle of risk vs reward.

But that is what happens when the devs basically ignore a game mode in terms of balance…

WvW gives advantages to certain classes along with disadvantages. Disadvantages of the thief include a lack of blocks and invulnerabilities and relatively low health. This addressed in part by high mobility. This makes them much less useful in a group and more useful as roamers or in havoc squads.

If we are to have a class based system we are going to have certain classes better at one thing at worse at another. One of the things a thief better at is disengaging from a fight if things not going their way. If things are not going their way and they must reset, it suggests that whomever they are facing will beat them UNLESS that thief resets.

This difference in abilities is what has created the Roamer and the havoc group. In order to be a successful roamer or to have an efficient havoc group, you tend to need builds with high mobility and cross map speed so they can flip objectives quickly and escape when the numbers not in their favor. It would be asinine to suggest that if I were in a camp flipping it and two enemy showed up, i should have no ability to disengage from the fight and get away. That is the very reason I use thief as a raomer.The alternative (the ability to disengage by any class is normalized and made the same) would be a much poorer game entirely.

If this disengageing could not occur then they only way one could effectively roam or create havoc would be to ensure one always had greater numbers then the enemy groups they might encounter.

All this leads to is more blobbing and running with the Zerg.

Every person who is on this forum is free to create a Character using a class that has that higher disenage ability and the ability to reset a fight. Nothing forces them to play a build that does not have such advantages. If it important to you then roll a thief or a warrior. If it is not and all one can do is complain that they should not be able to get away, then we should just have one class with everyone having the same skills, and just run around in that blob.

coro.3176:

Pre-HoT, dueling a Warrior with my Engi used to be a really fun fight. It was like playing Street Fighter. You both go at each other with attacks. Whoever landed their big hits while dodging their opponent’s would win.

I miss that.

Now, it’s more like “Aw kitten they’ve got stab and invuln and alltheboons, better run away and break combat … phew. made it, okay their stances are done. Time to turn around and fight .. aaaand they’re running away. sigh.. Oh no! Their stances are up again? better run away and break combat”

Sadly that counts for the entire hot spec across all classes.Less skill,more spammable skils ( burst when it coms to warri ),invulns,lotta regen…lotta ways to mess up and still be allright.The skill floor dropped massively when hot released IMO.

Kulpado.5138:

Warrior is really easy to play atm… just like any other hots spec. But broken? If you see someone winning a 3v1 that means one thing: A good player killing very bad players. No matter what profession or build the good player is running, he will always kill bad players if he is good at that profession. You cant say something is broken in that scenario. After that, not even worth to talk about the other “broken” things on warrior… Sorry my bad english

Eh highest base hp/armor, great mobility, near invuln to immob, passive stun breaks and stab, stupid amount of gap closers and stun breaks, passive invuln with no down side, great resistance and stab uptime, solid uptime on unblockable, active invuln with no down side, weapon evade that does great dmg, a decent block/reflect on most builds, spammable burst skills and big hits, crazy stupid regen that often near counters condi by itself.

Some pretty good stuff there and most or all of it can be crammed into one build. There are some pretty stupid things you can pull off with sentinel or other weird armor combos too. If you ever want to hit like a truck but have near 40k hp for example.

Having to chase it across the map just adds insult to injury.

Reh.5986:

Kulpado.5138:

Warrior is really easy to play atm… just like any other hots spec. But broken? If you see someone winning a 3v1 that means one thing: A good player killing very bad players. No matter what profession or build the good player is running, he will always kill bad players if he is good at that profession. You cant say something is broken in that scenario. After that, not even worth to talk about the other “broken” things on warrior… Sorry my bad english

Eh highest base hp/armor, great mobility, near invuln to immob, passive stun breaks and stab, stupid amount of gap closers and stun breaks, passive invuln with no down side, great resistance and stab uptime, solid uptime on unblockable, active invuln with no down side, weapon evade that does great dmg, a decent block/reflect on most builds, spammable burst skills and big hits, crazy stupid regen that often near counters condi by itself.

Some pretty good stuff there and most or all of it can be crammed into one build. There are some pretty stupid things you can pull off with sentinel or other weird armor combos too. If you ever want to hit like a truck but have near 40k hp for example.

Having to chase it across the map just adds insult to injury.

You are just describing things that makes warrior a gw2 profession. Remove those things and we have an unnamed profession that cant stand in a fight for more then 5 seconds. Warrior has been in the same spot since the game launch, a profession that was never been the worst, but never the most broken as well (talking about WvW, more specifically roaming). So what makes people complain about it nowadays? In my opinion, two things. The change on adrenal health and the hots spec berserker. Now you can be agressive and be rewarded for that, while F1 does good damage and proc adrenal health. I think warrior is now in the place where he should be from the beginning.
Thieves are hard to hit burst skills, druids has stupid regen and can be full tank and kill you with his pets, guardian has good heals and blocks, revenants just hard counter warrior in both damage and sustein, mesmers are mesmers… Every profession has your peculiarity and you are describing warrior peculiarities like if they all broken. I dont understand your point.

There is no point to complain about warrior. You should delete this post and … idk … learn how your profession can beat it. piece

Reh.5986:

Eh highest base hp/armor, great mobility, near invuln to immob, passive stun breaks and stab, stupid amount of gap closers and stun breaks, passive invuln with no down side, great resistance and stab uptime, solid uptime on unblockable, active invuln with no down side, weapon evade that does great dmg, a decent block/reflect on most builds, spammable burst skills and big hits, crazy stupid regen that often near counters condi by itself.

Some pretty good stuff there and most or all of it can be crammed into one build. There are some pretty stupid things you can pull off with sentinel or other weird armor combos too. If you ever want to hit like a truck but have near 40k hp for example.

Having to chase it across the map just adds insult to injury.

This pretty much sums up what I’ve been trying to say. Warrior have no real weaknesses. Yes you can do some small things to counter them, but their abilities far out weigh the counters.

Really they need to prevent their leaps from being used to escape. For instance just requiring a target to Rush would improve the situation considerably.

Kamikaze.6387:

There is no point to complain about warrior. You should delete this post and … idk … learn how your profession can beat it. piece

How can i beat a warrior as demon hunter?

Ghustim.5962:

Kamikaze.6387:

There is no point to complain about warrior. You should delete this post and … idk … learn how your profession can beat it. piece

How can i beat a warrior as demon hunter?

Well you can uninstall the wrong game and play pinball online. kisses and hundred k’s

“Warrior have no real weaknesses” is enough for today… My last advice: Maybe the warrior you fighting is just better then you, because believe or not, skill play matters in this game. Not just the profession or build you take from metabattle.

babazhook.6805:

zinkz.7045:

babazhook.6805:

The ability to disengage and “reset” a fight is integral to the game. It is a premise around which entire classes are built. Not all classes can stick in battle and survive so one of their options is disengage.

Except the game was designed around PvP where there is a certain level of balance to being able to disengage/reset a fight, because it comes with the cost that you lose control of a capture point, the score continues to tick away and you’ve just used your time ineffectively in terms of winning the match.

When roaming in WvW however that balance/cost is not there, if I am losing a fight and on a class/build that can easily disengage, not only is there no cost to it, but I can basically get away with screwing up (bar doing so catastrophically) in a way classes/builds that cannot disengage so well are punished with.

Which is of course is why the entire game mes & thief have been so common when roaming, and why currently you also see a lot of druids & warriors, they break the rather fundamental principle of risk vs reward.

But that is what happens when the devs basically ignore a game mode in terms of balance…

WvW gives advantages to certain classes along with disadvantages. Disadvantages of the thief include a lack of blocks and invulnerabilities and relatively low health. This addressed in part by high mobility. This makes them much less useful in a group and more useful as roamers or in havoc squads.

If we are to have a class based system we are going to have certain classes better at one thing at worse at another. One of the things a thief better at is disengaging from a fight if things not going their way. If things are not going their way and they must reset, it suggests that whomever they are facing will beat them UNLESS that thief resets.

This difference in abilities is what has created the Roamer and the havoc group. In order to be a successful roamer or to have an efficient havoc group, you tend to need builds with high mobility and cross map speed so they can flip objectives quickly and escape when the numbers not in their favor. It would be asinine to suggest that if I were in a camp flipping it and two enemy showed up, i should have no ability to disengage from the fight and get away. That is the very reason I use thief as a raomer.The alternative (the ability to disengage by any class is normalized and made the same) would be a much poorer game entirely.

If this disengageing could not occur then they only way one could effectively roam or create havoc would be to ensure one always had greater numbers then the enemy groups they might encounter.

All this leads to is more blobbing and running with the Zerg.

Every person who is on this forum is free to create a Character using a class that has that higher disenage ability and the ability to reset a fight. Nothing forces them to play a build that does not have such advantages. If it important to you then roll a thief or a warrior. If it is not and all one can do is complain that they should not be able to get away, then we should just have one class with everyone having the same skills, and just run around in that blob.

I like you. You make so much sense in that one post but unfortunately this is not how the world works. You see you know why? As with wvw where numbers matter, op will wait for a bit before making a hundred other threads and a few more hundred tears before this matter gets boonshared.

Kulpado.5138:

Every profession has your peculiarity and you are describing warrior peculiarities like if they all broken. I dont understand your point.

I’m not describing warrior peculiarities as broken. Just saying its a heck of a lot to cram in a single build and still be able to run so well. Pvp amulets are more restrictive so it’s probably easier to counter there + you got to fight in circles.

Warrior was my first class and I still run it sometimes. Im fairly familiar with the weapons/skills/traits…though I’m pretty terrible at warrior overall. I can still do pretty well unless I get ganged up on.

Running away won’t get you into Valhalla.

warriors are not a problem, they are one of theweakest roamer classes,

they have a lot of stun break but so do revs, it is needed when your main weapons are short range and you need to fight face to face 90% of the time.

when they pop their endure pain or berserk, just kite them till it wears off.

their mobility is nothing compared to other classes, it mainly relies on one weapon(greatsword)

thief/condi memsmer are the kings of roaming

Warriors definitely do not need a nerf. We just semi got the class back on its feet as far as standing with the rest of the elites go.

Plz tell me its a troll thread…

Lol a warrior hating topic xD LMAO!

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Lol a warrior hating topic xD LMAO!

They deserve all the hate..

they are srurdy/tanky without loosing much damage and got alot of mobility with GS :P

They even make bunker guards look like paper while bunker guard does no damage, has no mobility(same as necro) and their lack of damage will not ven hurt the warrior.

Warrior has poor trade offs, they need to sacrifice more like some other classes do…….
Or:
Maybe classes with poor desingage or no desingage at all arent being rewarded well….

babazhook.6805:

WvW gives advantages to certain classes along with disadvantages…

Which is irrelevant (apparently I need to repeat myself…), because the classes were designed and balanced with advantages and disadvantages for PvP, not roaming in WvW, which was and always has been of zero consideration, hence classes and mechanics that have some balance in PvP, become completely imbalanced in WvW, disengage being a prime example of that.

babazhook.6805:

Every person who is on this forum is free to create a Character using a class that has that higher disenage ability and the ability to reset a fight. Nothing forces them to play a build that does not have such advantages. If it important to you then roll a thief or a warrior. If it is not and all one can do is complain that they should not be able to get away, then we should just have one class with everyone having the same skills, and just run around in that blob.

LOL, so your answer to there being terrible balance is simply to play something that is broken OP in a certain respect and breaks fundamental rules like risk vs reward, and that people should not complain about lack of balance, okay…

It also doesn’t really help much, I was watching a stream of some poor sod trying to roam yesterday, he was on warrior, and guess how over half the fights went, yes he would be winning then the person (or laughably persons in a 1v2) would disengage when they decided they were in the slightest danger of losing, (because of course 80% of the people he encountered were on mes/thief/war/ranger and the GW2 WvW playerbase is the least ‘PvP’, you’ll ever find in a PvP mode), now this may appeal to PvE players who don’t actually want to fight, but for those who want PvP and good roaming, is it a joke.

And the actual answer, which most of us have opted for is to either not bother with smallscale at all or go play a different game if you want some form of open world small scale as WvW is terrible for that (of which levels of disengage is one of the causes), and why “roaming” in GW2 has largely devolved into having duels, because the actual roaming is so bad.

zinkz.7045:

babazhook.6805:

WvW gives advantages to certain classes along with disadvantages…

Which is irrelevant (apparently I need to repeat myself…), because the classes were designed and balanced with advantages and disadvantages for PvP, not roaming in WvW, which was and always has been of zero consideration, hence classes and mechanics that have some balance in PvP, become completely imbalanced in WvW, disengage being a prime example of that.

babazhook.6805:

Every person who is on this forum is free to create a Character using a class that has that higher disenage ability and the ability to reset a fight. Nothing forces them to play a build that does not have such advantages. If it important to you then roll a thief or a warrior. If it is not and all one can do is complain that they should not be able to get away, then we should just have one class with everyone having the same skills, and just run around in that blob.

LOL, so your answer to there being terrible balance is simply to play something that is broken OP and breaks fundamental rules like risk vs reward, and that people should not complain about lack of balance, okay…

And the actual answer, which most players have taken is to either not bother with smallscale at all or go play a different game if you want some form of open world small scale as WvW is terrible for that (of which levels of disengage is one of the causes), and why “roaming” in GW2 has largely devolved into having duels, because the actual roaming is so bad.

This here, Roaming is a slowly dying, just like the rest of WvW. There needs to be some way that punishes running away that;
1)does not punish short escapes.(getting from a fight to a nearby tower/keep/spawn)
2)does not affect normal combat.
3)can’t be exploited or cheesed out of.

one thing that I did think of is:

honor ring trap
-an item bought from traps/tricks outfitter
-when used it creates a 2500 radius ring around the player.
-ring breaks if more than 2 players or guard npcs are in the circle.
-if you leave the circle you are teleported back.

it’s a nice idea however it can be exploited by players trapping an enemy then stealth/tanking till their friends arrive.

Aeolus.3615:

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Lol a warrior hating topic xD LMAO!

They deserve all the hate..

they are srurdy/tanky without loosing much damage and got alot of mobility with GS :P

They even make bunker guards look like paper while bunker guard does no damage, has no mobility(same as necro) and their lack of damage will not ven hurt the warrior.

Warrior has poor trade offs, they need to sacrifice more like some other classes do…….
Or:
Maybe classes with poor desingage or no desingage at all arent being rewarded well….

I main warrior, and I dont care what you guys think of it xd as long as I love it everything is oke. I agree, i hate people that run away aswell. Mostly I Just laugh at them and continue with the roaming.
But from my experience the most runners are thiefs.

That moment when you think the thief is in stealth and you trying to predict when hé aproaches and suddenly you gain regen cause your out of combat… xD I think we all experience this one multiple times.

Butyeah, i mean why crying about warrior mobility? Go play revenant If you want to counter warriors with power en toughness so bad. I dont see the issue

Warrior mobility is fine, it’s berserker spec offering high stab uptime or taunt instagib burst along with spammable hard to avoid burst for constant T3 adrenal healing that’s the problem. Play core warrior without berserker and it’s far more balanced with trade offs for power and defence.

However it is as overpowered as other best spec elite specs, constant evasion thieves, bunker ele which is almost unkillable, condi chrono, corruption dire necro with full DS, scrappers/druids and their disgusting stealth and high sustain while having good damage, block marathon DH where you have to wait 30-40s before being able to hurt them and let’s not forget Revenant and all that BS of blocks and evades while dealing damage.

Play a core build or a style which isn’t meta and you realise how broken the elite specs are especially in their meta builds carrying people.

zinkz.7045:

[…] if you want some form of open world small scale as WvW is terrible for that (of which levels of disengage is one of the causes),[…]

Lack of disengage potential would hurt roaming/small scale even more, because it would be all about outnumbering your opponents for some safe and guaranteed kills. I don’t see anything wrong with being able to disengage from situations somebody can’t handle, be it because of numbers of players, builds or skill level. Because most “fights” aren’t fair anyways.

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Aeolus.3615:

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Lol a warrior hating topic xD LMAO!

They deserve all the hate..

they are srurdy/tanky without loosing much damage and got alot of mobility with GS :P

They even make bunker guards look like paper while bunker guard does no damage, has no mobility(same as necro) and their lack of damage will not ven hurt the warrior.

Warrior has poor trade offs, they need to sacrifice more like some other classes do…….
Or:
Maybe classes with poor desingage or no desingage at all arent being rewarded well….

I main warrior, and I dont care what you guys think of it xd as long as I love it everything is oke. I agree, i hate people that run away aswell. Mostly I Just laugh at them and continue with the roaming.
But from my experience the most runners are thiefs.

That moment when you think the thief is in stealth and you trying to predict when hé aproaches and suddenly you gain regen cause your out of combat… xD I think we all experience this one multiple times.

Butyeah, i mean why crying about warrior mobility? Go play revenant If you want to counter warriors with power en toughness so bad. I dont see the issue

My issue is not warrior running away, it is the all they tend to have packed, good damage and defense/sturdiness and mobility(GS) most cases.
Besides theres quite a few things in warrior that are in need of a QoL.

zerorogue.9410:

zinkz.7045:

babazhook.6805:

WvW gives advantages to certain classes along with disadvantages…

Which is irrelevant (apparently I need to repeat myself…), because the classes were designed and balanced with advantages and disadvantages for PvP, not roaming in WvW, which was and always has been of zero consideration, hence classes and mechanics that have some balance in PvP, become completely imbalanced in WvW, disengage being a prime example of that.

babazhook.6805:

Every person who is on this forum is free to create a Character using a class that has that higher disenage ability and the ability to reset a fight. Nothing forces them to play a build that does not have such advantages. If it important to you then roll a thief or a warrior. If it is not and all one can do is complain that they should not be able to get away, then we should just have one class with everyone having the same skills, and just run around in that blob.

LOL, so your answer to there being terrible balance is simply to play something that is broken OP and breaks fundamental rules like risk vs reward, and that people should not complain about lack of balance, okay…

And the actual answer, which most players have taken is to either not bother with smallscale at all or go play a different game if you want some form of open world small scale as WvW is terrible for that (of which levels of disengage is one of the causes), and why “roaming” in GW2 has largely devolved into having duels, because the actual roaming is so bad.

This here, Roaming is a slowly dying, just like the rest of WvW. There needs to be some way that punishes running away that;
1)does not punish short escapes.(getting from a fight to a nearby tower/keep/spawn)
2)does not affect normal combat.
3)can’t be exploited or cheesed out of.

one thing that I did think of is:

honor ring trap
-an item bought from traps/tricks outfitter
-when used it creates a 2500 radius ring around the player.
-ring breaks if more than 2 players or guard npcs are in the circle.
-if you leave the circle you are teleported back.

it’s a nice idea however it can be exploited by players trapping an enemy then stealth/tanking till their friends arrive.

Running away is not OP. No one can kill me if they run away. That like claiming sitting in a tower is OP or not coming out of spawn is OP because hey “I do not get to kill them”. Maybe people should not be allowed to log off either. I hate empty maps where I can not kill anyone but all those targets are just sleeping or eating supper.

if you want a target that does can run away go kill some NPCS . You might have to bring 5 or 6 of your chums with you cause the guard might have skills that you do not have. if you just want duels on a limited playing field go to obisidan sanctum.

As to roaming in WvW. There plenty of it when I play and the roamers tend to be the type that disengage. Some classes are faster then others. Deal with it. It a L2 kittenue.The blobs are not caused by roamers. Thats a War is peace type statement.

As to your claims that the difference in skills is “irrelevant” That is just mnore nonsense. WvW is not PvP. That is a different format. People have different skill sets based on build and profession. This should be obvious to anyone.

babazhook.6805:

Running away is not OP.

Sure it is, it is called risk vs reward, a fundamental game concept which is completely broken when it comes to roaming in WvW, if I play on say druid I can screw up in a fight and not be punished for that poor play because I can disengage most of the time (if I want), in a way I would get punished if I made the same level of mistakes on say necro where I can’t disengage most of the time.

babazhook.6805:

As to roaming in WvW. There plenty of it when I play and the roamers tend to be the type that disengage. Some classes are faster then others. Deal with it. It a L2 kittenue.The blobs are not caused by roamers. Thats a War is peace type statement.

In English?

babazhook.6805:

As to your claims that the difference in skills is “irrelevant” That is just mnore nonsense. WvW is not PvP. That is a different format. People have different skill sets based on build and profession. This should be obvious to anyone.

Which again is irrelevant to what I wrote or the point I made, which as per usual you conveniently fail to address, I have no idea why you quote my posts, when you don’t actually respond to the points, maybe you don’t understand them, certainly seems that way…

zerorogue.9410:

gebrechen.5643:

I find thieves far more disgusting because of their limitless mobility combined with damage and stealth

I know what your talking about, thieves are very annoying, but they also are very fragile. Anyone who is AoE heavy has a significant advantage against them.

LOL, really? My roaming thief with Dire/Trailblazer, perma-Invisibility option, superior evasion uptime, and a low cooldown block is fragile? Hint, you don’t need Stability in solo roaming if you have multi-stunbreaks and invisibility. Thief does not have to be full Power squishy to win.

Do we even play the same WvW game?

Warriors are annoying because there is no strip option to combo class utilities of back-to-back damage immunity/Stability/Resistance for several seconds. But if that chain of utilities runs out and you aren’t on the ground (see invisibility/many classes have better mobility), you can own them.

Warriors run because they have long cooldown utilities but the stance utilities are obscenely overpowered while up. They can’t compete outside of their utilities combo use and they are basically immune to everything during. I’m not saying it is balanced but if they want to play 90s Warrior with 70s+ of downtime in between, let them.

Artaz.3819:

zerorogue.9410:

gebrechen.5643:

I find thieves far more disgusting because of their limitless mobility combined with damage and stealth

I know what your talking about, thieves are very annoying, but they also are very fragile. Anyone who is AoE heavy has a significant advantage against them.

LOL, really? My roaming thief with Dire/Trailblazer, perma-Invisibility option, superior evasion uptime, and a low cooldown block is fragile? Hint, you don’t need Stability in solo roaming if you have multi-stunbreaks and invisibility. Thief does not have to be full Power squishy to win.

Do we even play the same WvW game?

Warriors are annoying because there is no strip option to combo class utilities of back-to-back damage immunity/Stability/Resistance for several seconds. But if that chain of utilities runs out and you aren’t on the ground (see invisibility/many classes have better mobility), you can own them.

Warriors run because they have long cooldown utilities but the stance utilities are obscenely overpowered while up. They can’t compete outside of their utilities combo use and they are basically immune to everything during. I’m not saying it is balanced but if they want to play 90s Warrior with 70s+ of downtime in between, let them.

A skilled warrior can easily breake the sequence of that lame stealthy condi evade bot.
Why do you use that build anyway, dont you have selfrespect as a thief?

Wish I could find the video, but a veteran live steamer player came back for fun and played his warrior. He basically did nothing, hasn’t practiced roaming in awhile, and was clicking random buttons taking on multiple players at once just laughing at how broken the game has become.

I’ll post if I can find, but it pointed out how OP warrior is and takes zero skill to play.

To add, I think it was evidence of how ridiculous some of these HoT classes/builds are currently. Super healing, toughness, resistance while hitting like a mac truck with little skill needed to master a class along with super speed escapes and now more stealth as I’m seeing with nearly every class. Things that use to be unique to a class now everyone has access to.

The game is becoming very vanilla and less diverse by the update.

[/quote]

A skilled warrior can easily breake the sequence of that lame stealthy condi evade bot.
Why do you use that build anyway, dont you have selfrespect as a thief?

[/quote]

Burnnn

That’s not a roaming build, it’s just a troll thing.

RodOfDeath.5247:

Wish I could find the video, but a veteran live steamer player came back for fun and played his warrior. He basically did nothing, hasn’t practiced roaming in awhile, and was clicking random buttons taking on multiple players at once just laughing at how broken the game has become.

I’ll post if I can find, but it pointed out how OP warrior is and takes zero skill to play.

To add, I think it was evidence of how ridiculous some of these HoT classes/builds are currently. Super healing, toughness, resistance while hitting like a mac truck with little skill needed to master a class along with super speed escapes and now more stealth as I’m seeing with nearly every class. Things that use to be unique to a class now everyone has access to.

The game is becoming very vanilla and less diverse by the update.

It just makes for uninteresting fights where one player is forced to run away. Pre-HoT, you could get into single combat with most classes and expect that it would end with one of you dead. It was exciting. Now, you have to contend with too much invuln and stab and resistance. These are all good things in moderation, but you can’t fight them. You have to run. If your opponent gets 8 seconds of invuln while still being able to damage you, you have to run away. If you’re a condi class and your opponent gets 15 seconds of resistance, you have to run away. If your class relies on landing CC and your opponent has 15s of stability, you have to run.

This is boring. It’s not just a problem with Warrior, but Warrior is the most obvious example because the class seems to be designed to use stances, then run until they’re up again.

Warriors are better 1vX than they are 1v1 imo. If they can land their burst on somebody, they will not die easily. The best way to handle the warrior is to never let it get close to you. Druid and thief can do this, but warrior can still burst the pets. Necro can corrupt resistance and mess up a warrior’s invuln rotation. Really anybody who is very skilled can potentially beat a good warrior 1v1. Warrior is really good against bad players.

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Why do you use that build anyway, dont you have selfrespect as a thief?

How can one use self respect and thief in a single sentence. Nobody with a bit of self respect would roam with a condi thief or d/p. Both are mostly brainless builds.
People crying about warriors being lame and stuff and play such builds is an art form of double standards.

zerorogue.9410:

1. Outrage – breaks stuns with a ten second recharge. I don’t even know a CC with a 10 second recharge.
2. 8 seconds of invulnerability – with Endure Pain/Defy Pain this also has no downside as they can attack while invulnerable.
3. Last Stand – Instant stun-breaker and 8 seconds of Stability
4. Berserk + Eternal Champion – Berserk effects and stability, fury, Quickness, Swiftness. Plus might when you stun-break.
5. Healing Signet – No need to even stop to heal.
6. 3 leaps – allowing to move 2,250 units away in 3.75 seconds. With recharges in 8s, 10s, 20s.

1. Headshot, Skull Grinder, Rupturing Smash, Gun Flame, Pistol Whip, Skull Crack, Earthshaker, Berserk if you trait it.
2. It’s not invulnerability. It’s immunity to direct damage, you still take condi damage.
3. No one takes Last Stand, it’s a kittenty trait compared to Rousing Resilience and Cleansing Ire.
4. All of which can be corrupted by a necro or a stolen by a Thief pretty much instantly.
5. Healing Signet is ridiculously weak to poison.
6. An extra 2250 movement every 20 seconds is nothing. Base movement speed is twice that, so it’s effectively the same as having Swiftness on at all times.

Roamers are proud when they are being chased by groups
Little did they know this is them on the minds of those groups

Was I bait to pull you in
The thrill of the kill
You feel, is a sin

She Wolf – David Guetta ft Sia

Everything is fine about Warrior, except how broken its Resistance uptime gets when even a little boon duration is taken. Simple fix: Berserker Stance treats the Resistance it gives the same way a transformation like Rampage treats boons, once it’s over the boons are removed. The CD for Healing Signet’s active could also be bumped to 30s and the healing amount bumped to compensate.

The defensive sustain on a warrior is very strong and it is definitely true that the class can be both tanky and straight up dangerous in a fight. Whirling Blades has incidentally dropped many a thief.

That said my complaint still lies with Resistance and to a lessor extent Durability and Boon Duration. The percentage damage reduction stacking makes any class that runs it too tanky (Druid, Warrior, Guardian as examples). Resistance should not make any class immune to condition movement effects.

Whats broken about warrior is the amount of healling available while using full berserker/marauder. No toughness needed or healling power at all. same as druids. no class should get so much gealling uf not geared up for it. if they nerfed even more signet and AH then they would have to sacrifice dps in order to get that survival. no more big numbers with litle sacrifice. dont really care if someone comes defend this because its to scared of loosing their confortable near op build , should be like this and thats that.

Mikhael.2391:

Whats broken about warrior is the amount of healling available while using full berserker/marauder. No toughness needed or healling power at all. same as druids. no class should get so much gealling uf not geared up for it. if they nerfed even more signet and AH then they would have to sacrifice dps in order to get that survival. no more big numbers with litle sacrifice. dont really care if someone comes defend this because its to scared of loosing their confortable near op build , should be like this and thats that.

Try the same build without berserker and suddenly it becomes balanced. Deny the warrior it’s burst skill and no more 900+up/s healing and it becomes very easy to deny as adrenaline takes time to build up, a lot longer than berserker and it’s 1 bar =T3 burst.

The problem is the spammable T3 burst skills on berserker and in some parts the 20s cool down headbutt allowing for easy access to berserk mode.

Easiest solution is to make primal bursts count as a T1 or T2 burst skill, you can adjust the numbers for damage so they stay the same if needed and make it a WvW/PvP only change so they aren’t affected in PvE.

apharma.3741:

Mikhael.2391:

Whats broken about warrior is the amount of healling available while using full berserker/marauder. No toughness needed or healling power at all. same as druids. no class should get so much gealling uf not geared up for it. if they nerfed even more signet and AH then they would have to sacrifice dps in order to get that survival. no more big numbers with litle sacrifice. dont really care if someone comes defend this because its to scared of loosing their confortable near op build , should be like this and thats that.

Try the same build without berserker and suddenly it becomes balanced. Deny the warrior it’s burst skill and no more 900+up/s healing and it becomes very easy to deny as adrenaline takes time to build up, a lot longer than berserker and it’s 1 bar =T3 burst.

The problem is the spammable T3 burst skills on berserker and in some parts the 20s cool down headbutt allowing for easy access to berserk mode.

Easiest solution is to make primal bursts count as a T1 or T2 burst skill, you can adjust the numbers for damage so they stay the same if needed and make it a WvW/PvP only change so they aren’t affected in PvE.

Sorry but no. If u want super dps you should not have that amazing sustain. its basic knowledge on every mmo the harder u hit the squishier you are. only here this does not aply. Use other tools utilitys traits to get more adrenaline wich you have. like i said no one wants this changed because they r too confortable being near perfect. theres no need to sacrifice damage to survive. Can you not see that? MOre damage less survival, more survival less damage. its how it should be always. if you dont understand a 20k berserker warrior full of tough with awesome survival and dps is broken you r blind.

Mikhael.2391:

apharma.3741:

Mikhael.2391:

Whats broken about warrior is the amount of healling available while using full berserker/marauder. No toughness needed or healling power at all. same as druids. no class should get so much gealling uf not geared up for it. if they nerfed even more signet and AH then they would have to sacrifice dps in order to get that survival. no more big numbers with litle sacrifice. dont really care if someone comes defend this because its to scared of loosing their confortable near op build , should be like this and thats that.

Try the same build without berserker and suddenly it becomes balanced. Deny the warrior it’s burst skill and no more 900+up/s healing and it becomes very easy to deny as adrenaline takes time to build up, a lot longer than berserker and it’s 1 bar =T3 burst.

The problem is the spammable T3 burst skills on berserker and in some parts the 20s cool down headbutt allowing for easy access to berserk mode.

Easiest solution is to make primal bursts count as a T1 or T2 burst skill, you can adjust the numbers for damage so they stay the same if needed and make it a WvW/PvP only change so they aren’t affected in PvE.

Sorry but no. If u want super dps you should not have that amazing sustain. its basic knowledge on every mmo the harder u hit the squishier you are. only here this does not aply. Use other tools utilitys traits to get more adrenaline wich you have. like i said no one wants this changed because they r too confortable being near perfect. theres no need to sacrifice damage to survive. Can you not see that? MOre damage less survival, more survival less damage. its how it should be always. if you dont understand a 20k berserker warrior full of tough with awesome survival and dps is broken you r blind.

I’ve beaten core warriors on core mesmer, it’s super easy when you deny the burst as all that great healing you’re complaining about is easily denied. I see that this high regen is tied to 2 factors on core warrior:

1) Building adrenaline.
2) Hitting with a fairly well telegraphed skill (exception bow burst).

On core warrior building adrenaline is much harder than berserker and many do invest quite heavily in it. Adrenaline generators that core warriors use are: Signet of rage, cleansing ire, versatile rage, berserker stance and they conserve it with burst mastery. Adrenal healing also doesn’t stack so you can’t get a large heal when you need it.

T1 burst: 2475 healing over 15s. 165 health/s
T2 burst: 4950 healing over 15s. 300 health/s
T3 burst: 7425 healing over 15s. 495 health/s

It’s fair on core warrior, because a core warriors adrenaline access requires investment to build at a decent pace and is nicely telegraphed. Go compare core warrior and berserker with the two builds (substitute strength line for berserker on core) and you will see a massive difference. The problem is the elite spec and nerfing core traits for an elite spec creates more balance problems down the line when it becomes useless without this 1 elite spec.

Edit: Forgot to mention core warrior also is more susceptible to hard CC as they can’t pick eternal champion or outrage/headbutt for the extra stunbreaks and adrenaline gain. You can use this to keep denying burst and control warriors. As I say elite spec problem not core warrior problem.

I agree with you there. core warrior is pretty much on pair with other hot builds. not the best but still far away from worst. ehat i keep saying is they have way too much dps and survival alltoghether. to get one should sacrifice the other.

To the OP. I will happily help you in your drive to nerf warriors, lol. Only if you help me in my pursuit to get beyond overpowered zerg players and zerg-servers balanced with the rest of the roamers and and lowly populated servers.

That’s what I would call a win win. I mean what do you have to lose by helping me which in turn would help yourself?

We can tag team the WvW forums. If you are interested send me a PM.

apharma.3741:

It’s fair on core warrior, because a core warriors adrenaline access requires investment to build at a decent pace and is nicely telegraphed. Go compare core warrior and berserker with the two builds (substitute strength line for berserker on core) and you will see a massive difference. The problem is the elite spec and nerfing core traits for an elite spec creates more balance problems down the line when it becomes useless without this 1 elite spec.

Edit: Forgot to mention core warrior also is more susceptible to hard CC as they can’t pick eternal champion or outrage/headbutt for the extra stunbreaks and adrenaline gain. You can use this to keep denying burst and control warriors. As I say elite spec problem not core warrior problem.

QFT.

When facing a core warrior, I feel I have options to deal with them. When facing a zerker, I just have to run away because the amount of stability, resistance, regen, invulns, etc overwhelm my ability to keep them at range while pressuring them with damage. Then the auto-taunt insta-kills me if I happen to be within melee range, so the best thing to do is not fight them at all. That’s not fun.

Base Warrior in general trades off a lot more to get its bursts and I feel like I can fight them toe to toe with my Rifle Engi.

Zerker and vanilla Warrior are fine do touch them.