Guild Wars 2

JustARTificial.3175:

People won’t leave to play TESO. The game is riddled with more fundamental problems than GW believe it or not.

Are you realy sure about that ?
The only thing that is keeping GW2 population alive is the F2P model with NO p2w item shop model, otherwise this game would be already dead.
Anyway TESO is going to hit GW2 population much harder than you think.
The main reason?
Too few and too slow changes over almost 2 years since the game release and for the most part in the wrong direction.
Listening to the community too much is wrong but also is don’t listening at all.
Zenimax is already showing that they are listening more to their customers’ needs, with facts not empty words.
Ok I am an unhappy GW2 customer but for a reason, I was promised things since the first beta that still have to happens 2 years later.

WvW is already hurting.(for numerous reasons) Too many times I log on and find a ghost town (t2 server). It wasn’t like this 5 months ago. Even with the flaws I still enjoy the game, but if WvW is dead then I will eventually move on.

Kolly.9872:

JustARTificial.3175:

People won’t leave to play TESO. The game is riddled with more fundamental problems than GW believe it or not.

Are you realy sure about that ?
The only thing that is keeping GW2 population alive is the F2P model with NO p2w item shop model, otherwise this game would be already dead.
Anyway TESO is going to hit GW2 population much harder than you think.
The main reason?
Too few and too slow changes over almost 2 years since the game release and for the most part in the wrong direction.
Listening to the community too much is wrong but also is don’t listening at all.
Zenimax is already showing that they are listening more to their customers’ needs, with facts not empty words.
Ok I am an unhappy GW2 customer but for a reason, I was promised things since the first beta that still have to happens 2 years later.

People who dismiss teso never tried its pvp. significantly better than wvw. No permastealth nonsense, no god mode warrior like classes, no aoe cap, zergballing hurts you.

Tao.5096:

Heck, I will see loads of downed players fighting each other….
stupid.

And somewhere within Anet a bean counter laughs as an increased death rate creates a better gold sink. Those who play must pay. Those who sit and flip, get to profit.

DeWolfe.2174:

Tao.5096:

Heck, I will see loads of downed players fighting each other….
stupid.

And somewhere within Anet a bean counter laughs as an increased death rate creates a better gold sink. Those who play must pay. Those who sit and flip, get to profit.

their refusal to reduce highly annoying elements like perma stealth and god mode warriors are just driving players to eso. Most of us would never have considered eso if not for the arrogance or apathy of these developers. Many anet employees feel the same way about this development team, and I can guarantee you that anet employees are playing eso.

Just read this …

‘There will be spells to detect stealthed individuals’

What a crazy concept

Forzani.2584:

Just read this …

‘There will be spells to detect stealthed individuals’

What a crazy concept

Ya there is a spell you get from the mage guild called mage light that can reveal stealthed and invis enemys, and anyone can get it, as long as you join the mages guild.

I lol’d. Condition meta in charge in WvW? Have you PLAYED WvW in zerg to zerg combat? Conditions do practically nothing to a well coordinated zerg, and are mostly diminishing returns the bigger the enemy group becomes.

1v1? It’s devastating.
5v5? Still devastating.
10v10? Not as powerful, AoE cap prevents doing more to them.
20v20 (and on up)? LOL they don’t do anything.

Forzani.2584:

Just read this …

‘There will be spells to detect stealthed individuals’

What a crazy concept

yep, lol. but anet refuses to use hard counters. lol.

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

Funny there was no cap when the game was released….

I remember a friend, who played GW2 in beta. And he explained to me, how an enemy Zerg turteled (when standing on one point wasn’t the standard already). At this moment, he said, they understood, that there was an AoE dmg cap. And that was during the beta.

This is a quote from the AoE-wiki-article history from September 2012

[…] An area of effect skill may only affect a maximum of 5 targets […]

1. I think you have to know all points of change to say that is good/bad.
2. If you really love to play WvW, you won’t stop it because of this. You will make the best out of it as fast as possible to hit the other servers as hard as you can.

It’s going to destroy the game mode lol..

Instead of people using trinkets and weapons that are berserker you are going to find that switch into more tanky stuff and Zerg vs Zerg is going to turn into a gigantic wet noodle fight that never ends.

Vermillion.4061:

It’s going to destroy the game mode lol..

Instead of people using trinkets and weapons that are berserker you are going to find that switch into more tanky stuff and Zerg vs Zerg is going to turn into a gigantic wet noodle fight that never ends.

And the best part is that everyone who wasted time and effort to optimally gear their characters with the old critical damage system now gets screwed with a pointless mix.

Guess we should have known that the rug would pulled out from under us at some point for playing the ascended game. Buy more gems for transmute stones, spend more time farming the totally awesome LW content…

within 2 weeks people will have founds ways to abuse the ESO system too, and by then, it will be like any other MMO out there in terms of sucky-ness.

Forzani.2584:

Just read this …

‘There will be spells to detect stealthed individuals’

What a crazy concept

was already done in numerous older games, so nothing new there.

Rapier.3675:

Forzani.2584:

Just read this …

‘There will be spells to detect stealthed individuals’

What a crazy concept

was already done in numerous older games, so nothing new there.

No way

TESO is a dreadful game, anyone who has played beta knows this, and not in a way that can be fixed through polish. Plus the pricing is ludicrous in this era of gaming.

Wildstar may be a bigger problem for GW2, albeit only for WoW-heads.

I think the ferocity change is being overrated here. Knight and Soldier builds will barely be touched, and event to a lesser extent Valkyrie will still do fine. It is only assassins and berserker who feel that 11.4%/10% nerf.

1. Turtles are so 2012, they haven’t been used since
2. Stay in turtle die in turtle, I have yet to see a successful turtle survive and attack
3. TESO absolutely sucks when you look at group combat and 1vs1, well combat in general. It has 0 depth compared to guildwars and the initial playerbase might be big, it’ll shrink fast.
4. Again, TESO is a game for PvE with friends, not for hardcore PvP. Its design is flawed to have decent fights.

I do agree that the ferocity change is uncalled for and conditions are way to strong. Simply nerfing conditions wont work, their design needs changing.

Forzani.2584:

Rapier.3675:

Forzani.2584:

Just read this …

‘There will be spells to detect stealthed individuals’

What a crazy concept

was already done in numerous older games, so nothing new there.

No way

Yes, in shadowbane you had a scout class who could see every players name in a certain unit radius with a spell, including people who were stealthed. Fun fact, thieves in that game could effectively steal something out of your inventory.

Look at League of Legends, multiple stealth breaking/seeing mechanics are in place there.

Even in guildwars you can see stealthed classes. Puffs of smoke, circles, sounds all give away a stealth class is near. With a stealth trap you can counter them aswel. Not saying there are many mechanics in place, but they are there.

the game has been in need of a rebalance for some time… personally, I don’t think the upcoming changes are going to rebalance the game.

This is what they need to consider

1) Each class must be able to have at least 4 viable (meta) builds – 2 for solo fighting, and 2 for fighting in a zerg – but those who like to stray from the meta should be able to produce other viable builds – in other words, there should be a minimum of 4 viable builds – but they should not be exclusive.

2) Each class must have a nemesis. Every skill must be countered by another skill on another class. No one skill should be immune to a viable counter skill.

3) The max damage of any one class must be able to reduce the max protection of any class by 25%.

Keeping those three rules in mind… should produce a more balanced and fun game.

I keep hearing remove the aoe cap but I dont think you guys really have thought out the consequences of doing so

When you remove the aoe cap it just benefits the zerg more not less. I know you all think that a 5 man ground of zerker eles can dominate but consider this: a 40man zerg with 15 warriors would be able to heal 30k hp instantly just by the use of 1 shout, most hammer warriors run 2/3 shouts so you are looking at doing 60-90k hp regen just from the wars. Even assuming you poisoned them all, thats still 40-60k healing in 2 instant cast shouts, and this doesn’t even include the guards or eles.

They would have 100% protection uptime and almost unlimited condi cleanse so with all the buffs, to down that 40 man zerg you would have to hit each of them with almost 80k direct damage in less than 1 second and make sure you down them all at once, because if you don’t, they will instantly heal back to full hp.

The removal of the aoe cap would make spike damage the meta. It would encourage the instant kill classes that every mmo has discouraged because theres no real flow to combat or time to make any decisions to react. To remove the aoe cap, you would have to seriously redesign every class’s game mechanics from scratch, which we all know Anet will not do.

or as some people have suggested only remove the damage cap but keep the healing/boon cap in place…but that seems completely unfair to the support classes imo.

MiLkZz.4789:

1. Turtles are so 2012, they haven’t been used since
2. Stay in turtle die in turtle, I have yet to see a successful turtle survive and attack
3. TESO absolutely sucks when you look at group combat and 1vs1, well combat in general. It has 0 depth compared to guildwars and the initial playerbase might be big, it’ll shrink fast.
4. Again, TESO is a game for PvE with friends, not for hardcore PvP. Its design is flawed to have decent fights.

I do agree that the ferocity change is uncalled for and conditions are way to strong. Simply nerfing conditions wont work, their design needs changing.

Turtle and zerging is synonymous when it comprises of heavy front line Gurdian and warrior hammer trains. With healing. Just nobody calls it that anymore.

See this definition on Wikipedia and tell me if that doesn’t mean a guard/war hammer train.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtling_%28gameplay%29

Warlord.9074:

MiLkZz.4789:

1. Turtles are so 2012, they haven’t been used since
2. Stay in turtle die in turtle, I have yet to see a successful turtle survive and attack
3. TESO absolutely sucks when you look at group combat and 1vs1, well combat in general. It has 0 depth compared to guildwars and the initial playerbase might be big, it’ll shrink fast.
4. Again, TESO is a game for PvE with friends, not for hardcore PvP. Its design is flawed to have decent fights.

I do agree that the ferocity change is uncalled for and conditions are way to strong. Simply nerfing conditions wont work, their design needs changing.

Turtle and zerging is synonymous when it comprises of heavy front line Gurdian and warrior hammer trains. With healing. Just nobody calls it that anymore.

See this definition on Wikipedia and tell me if that doesn’t mean a guard/war hammer train.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtling_%28gameplay%29

“…while turtling strategies are usually simple enough for novices to learn and are effective as such, they are easily defeated by experienced players who understand the game’s methods to counter turtling.”

That is why guild groups rarely complain about zergs, well maybe that they don’t stop coming and their lootbags are full.

It indeed means that you focus more on defense than on offense, but a true turtle is also not mobile, they focus on staying put on the same location. If you stack up and drop aoe on top of yourself and try to out heal your enemy attacks and try melting them, you’ll get melted instead by the heavy aoe.

I don’t get why people complain about the 5 man aoe limit, this makes sure that zerging is not the only option. Because of the 5 man limit, aoes need to be coordinated to be potentially dangerous. Which happens in guild groups and not in zergs. This is the main weapon to how a guild group can destroy a zerg. The guildgroup can focus heals aswel so that the scattered aoe of the zerg gets outhealed. This means the guild group stays at full health slowly killing the zerg in chunks of 5-10 people each time.

But back on the turtle, you could say a defensive hammer train is a turtle. But I think the mobile nature of a zerg and the clashing into the enemy shows a too offensive nature to be considered a turtle.

ontopic We don’t know how the changes are going to pan out, much is still not known. I am going to sit back and see what happens and adjust to the changes. A good player adjusts, the bad ones hold on. Every patch opens up new builds and destroys others, that is just the nature of the game and actually keeps it interesting. I love experimenting with new builds, that is why I have 10 armor sets on my warrior aswel.

Initially I skipped this thread because it came across as something akin to a hyperbole.

But then I took a step back and considered the historical implications of actions in WvW (ruins/bloodlust). I began to think it wasn’t such an outlandish concept.

Now having acquainted myself more with the update that’s coming and reading through other posts on the forums.

Further more consider the PvP thread and the amount of dev focus that’s getting compared to the WvW one.

None of it looks promising.

I’m starting to get a bad feeling about this update, but time will tell…

MiLkZz.4789:

Warlord.9074:

MiLkZz.4789:

1. Turtles are so 2012, they haven’t been used since
2. Stay in turtle die in turtle, I have yet to see a successful turtle survive and attack
3. TESO absolutely sucks when you look at group combat and 1vs1, well combat in general. It has 0 depth compared to guildwars and the initial playerbase might be big, it’ll shrink fast.
4. Again, TESO is a game for PvE with friends, not for hardcore PvP. Its design is flawed to have decent fights.

I do agree that the ferocity change is uncalled for and conditions are way to strong. Simply nerfing conditions wont work, their design needs changing.

Turtle and zerging is synonymous when it comprises of heavy front line Gurdian and warrior hammer trains. With healing. Just nobody calls it that anymore.

See this definition on Wikipedia and tell me if that doesn’t mean a guard/war hammer train.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtling_%28gameplay%29

“…while turtling strategies are usually simple enough for novices to learn and are effective as such, they are easily defeated by experienced players who understand the game’s methods to counter turtling.”

That is why guild groups rarely complain about zergs, well maybe that they don’t stop coming and their lootbags are full.

It indeed means that you focus more on defense than on offense, but a true turtle is also not mobile, they focus on staying put on the same location. If you stack up and drop aoe on top of yourself and try to out heal your enemy attacks and try melting them, you’ll get melted instead by the heavy aoe.

I don’t get why people complain about the 5 man aoe limit, this makes sure that zerging is not the only option. Because of the 5 man limit, aoes need to be coordinated to be potentially dangerous. Which happens in guild groups and not in zergs. This is the main weapon to how a guild group can destroy a zerg. The guildgroup can focus heals aswel so that the scattered aoe of the zerg gets outhealed. This means the guild group stays at full health slowly killing the zerg in chunks of 5-10 people each time.

But back on the turtle, you could say a defensive hammer train is a turtle. But I think the mobile nature of a zerg and the clashing into the enemy shows a too offensive nature to be considered a turtle.

ontopic We don’t know how the changes are going to pan out, much is still not known. I am going to sit back and see what happens and adjust to the changes. A good player adjusts, the bad ones hold on. Every patch opens up new builds and destroys others, that is just the nature of the game and actually keeps it interesting. I love experimenting with new builds, that is why I have 10 armor sets on my warrior aswel.

IDK if you consider tanky builds just AA with a hammer objective to have 30 people run over a singe area they dont need to be offensive or build for damage if 30 players AA over a target its going down possibly. I kinda disagree with the argument that a force smaller than another force can effectively kill the larger force with AOEs. Its been proven agisnt with the T1 Meta of 50 or more map blobs. Especially mobile ones becasue lets face no one is going to just stand still in one spot and let people AOE them so they eat the entire AOE. Thats kinda why AOEs dont work well in open field fights atleast VS large size mobile zergs,

Maybe if enough aoes are put down where u could funnel a enemy through a choke but Im pretty shure with the nerf to crit damage even that will be less effective now.

I know what you are saying is only true to a certain extend but what most of us figured out at a certain point it stops working and thats when the enemy zerg has reached a critical mass of a certain size. Thats why people blob.

Tao.5096:

Dominating faction will hold weak faction out of the boss room, while they’re killing the boss.

In the end, statistically it’ll look like this
– your faction will manage to kill certain boss maybe 2-3 times for half a year, while the other faction will be full of loot from that boss.

But, but, but… ESO has three factions! Three! That means it will be balanced, right? I mean, you will be playing the factions that is strongest and kicks butt all the time, but other people will certainly migrate to the weaker factions to balance things out, so you can have more fun rofl-stomping them 50v15 instead of 50vs10. Right?

No game will have balanced factions with out intervention.

Mattargul.9235:

Tao.5096:

Dominating faction will hold weak faction out of the boss room, while they’re killing the boss.

In the end, statistically it’ll look like this
– your faction will manage to kill certain boss maybe 2-3 times for half a year, while the other faction will be full of loot from that boss.

But, but, but… ESO has three factions! Three! That means it will be balanced, right? I mean, you will be playing the factions that is strongest and kicks butt all the time, but other people will certainly migrate to the weaker factions to balance things out, so you can have more fun rofl-stomping them 50v15 instead of 50vs10. Right?

No game will have balanced factions with out intervention.

Alliance vs. Alliance is TESO‘s large scale PvP map that consists of all 3 factions battling it out with sieges, keeps, farms, resources, mobs, and even quests.
In AvA (Alliance vs. Alliance) there are mobs that protect central points and keeps.
Solo players in AvA will be able to sneak around, kill other players, and work on special quests.
Each AvA instance, also known as a campaign, will automatically ensure each faction is balanced as new players join. Players can also choose particular campaigns to be with friends.

deathklock.4961:

Mattargul.9235:

Tao.5096:

Dominating faction will hold weak faction out of the boss room, while they’re killing the boss.

In the end, statistically it’ll look like this
– your faction will manage to kill certain boss maybe 2-3 times for half a year, while the other faction will be full of loot from that boss.

But, but, but… ESO has three factions! Three! That means it will be balanced, right? I mean, you will be playing the factions that is strongest and kicks butt all the time, but other people will certainly migrate to the weaker factions to balance things out, so you can have more fun rofl-stomping them 50v15 instead of 50vs10. Right?

No game will have balanced factions with out intervention.

Alliance vs. Alliance is TESO‘s large scale PvP map that consists of all 3 factions battling it out with sieges, keeps, farms, resources, mobs, and even quests.
In AvA (Alliance vs. Alliance) there are mobs that protect central points and keeps.
Solo players in AvA will be able to sneak around, kill other players, and work on special quests.
Each AvA instance, also known as a campaign, will automatically ensure each faction is balanced as new players join. Players can also choose particular campaigns to be with friends.

You must pay AP to get to that campaigns so what happens is a lot like EoTM you keep making a new version where your side is wining and then you only play on that map the other ppl do the same turning it into a krama like train event.

I’ve spent a ton of time in ESO’s beta, relegating most of that time to AvA. ESO’s AvA does some things very well: the size of the map, the way points work, etc. But compared to GW2, the combat in ESO is horrible in my opinion. It feels floaty and unimpactful to say the least (and yes, even after the supposed combat “fix” patch). While the engine is much more optimized for large scale battle than GW2, the overall quality of the graphics and animations is much lower as a result. I was hoping ESO would be the spiritual successor to my first MMO, Dark Age of Camelot, but it’s not. While it’s better in some areas than GW2, at its core GW2 is a much better game.

Nerfing crit damage won’t hurt wvw or make it any more zergbally than anything else Anet has ever done. I’ve played ESO, it has huge problems. The AvA is great, but until the game goes f2p (which it probably will because of how poor a MMO it is) it won’t completely kill wvw.

many of us old dark age devotees love eso AvA over the WvW here. Far less laggy and more strategic.

Sanduskel.1850:

many of us old dark age devotees love eso AvA over the WvW here. Far less laggy and more strategic.

I am one of those old time daoc players. I like the way ESO is looking…except for the targeting and the constant need to spam your weapon for every hit. Dunno if I can deal with that full time.

I like the way eso battles go, with people spreading out rather than stacking. It gives a much more realistic feel to the fighting.

Same applies to the autoattack – I’ve never liked that about GW2. It feels so artificial and out-of-control to have your toon swiping at things all the time. Eso brings a bit of skill to actually selecting and hitting your target. It’s not perfect by any means – but I prefer it like that and the spread-out battles make it easier to choose your target anyway.

I don t know about TESO but for sure i can t explain how developers are trying with every single patch to go against everything asked by players in term of balance….

What reason can be given to ferocity?

Its unwanted, unneeded and will damage the game in the second most popular game mode while doing nothing in PVE.

And its obviously one of those things where the development collaboration will be deaf to……because CDI works only on stuff they already planned…if you agree with them there is CDI otherwise there is silence….

dodgycookies.4562:

or as some people have suggested only remove the damage cap but keep the healing/boon cap in place…but that seems completely unfair to the support classes imo.

There isn’t really any “support class”. All classes have support skills. That said, the reason why I and many others suggest removing only a cap on targets, and not a cap on boons or buffs is because boons/buffs are far more powerful. Imagine limitless shadow refuge on a group of 50 players, or infinite retaliation on a group of 50 players, or Time Warp on 50 players. If you think retaliation is a problem now, wait until retal auto-smacks you for 10k health any time you use a single attack.

This is done to accomplish a goal. The players don’t want gameplay to be about getting 50 people in one spot so they can abuse a game mechanic to be indestructible. They want cheap tactics to be punishable, and higher coordination to be rewarded. They want a small group to be capable of fighting off a much bigger group when using the right tactics.

To accomplish this goal, some concessions have to be made. Yes, offensive potential will far outpace defensive potential if you retain a boon/buff limit, but this is only true for stacks. For the coordinated army that doesn’t stack, boons and buffs will only match the damage output of the enemy.

They should just remove the AoE cap seriously.. if you’re stupid enough to keep standing in a circle you deserve to die.

Shakki.3219:

They should just remove the AoE cap seriously.. if you’re stupid enough to keep standing in a circle you deserve to die.

OT…
Aoe caps exists to reduce server lag not to balance stuff.

The servers suck? Thats nothing new..

dodgycookies.4562:

I keep hearing remove the aoe cap but I dont think you guys really have thought out the consequences of doing so

When you remove the aoe cap it just benefits the zerg more not less. I know you all think that a 5 man ground of zerker eles can dominate but consider this: a 40man zerg with 15 warriors would be able to heal 30k hp instantly just by the use of 1 shout, most hammer warriors run 2/3 shouts so you are looking at doing 60-90k hp regen just from the wars. Even assuming you poisoned them all, thats still 40-60k healing in 2 instant cast shouts, and this doesn’t even include the guards or eles.

They would have 100% protection uptime and almost unlimited condi cleanse so with all the buffs, to down that 40 man zerg you would have to hit each of them with almost 80k direct damage in less than 1 second and make sure you down them all at once, because if you don’t, they will instantly heal back to full hp.

The removal of the aoe cap would make spike damage the meta. It would encourage the instant kill classes that every mmo has discouraged because theres no real flow to combat or time to make any decisions to react. To remove the aoe cap, you would have to seriously redesign every class’s game mechanics from scratch, which we all know Anet will not do.

or as some people have suggested only remove the damage cap but keep the healing/boon cap in place…but that seems completely unfair to the support classes imo.

Plus, the 25 remaining necros in the 40 man zerg will not have their aoe’s capped anymore and therefore melt down the 15 man group quickly…

Finally at least someone understands that removing the AoE cap will do the exact opposite of what people hope for. It will only encourage even larger zergs.

Halvorn.9831:

dodgycookies.4562:

I keep hearing remove the aoe cap but I dont think you guys really have thought out the consequences of doing so

When you remove the aoe cap it just benefits the zerg more not less. I know you all think that a 5 man ground of zerker eles can dominate but consider this: a 40man zerg with 15 warriors would be able to heal 30k hp instantly just by the use of 1 shout, most hammer warriors run 2/3 shouts so you are looking at doing 60-90k hp regen just from the wars. Even assuming you poisoned them all, thats still 40-60k healing in 2 instant cast shouts, and this doesn’t even include the guards or eles.

They would have 100% protection uptime and almost unlimited condi cleanse so with all the buffs, to down that 40 man zerg you would have to hit each of them with almost 80k direct damage in less than 1 second and make sure you down them all at once, because if you don’t, they will instantly heal back to full hp.

The removal of the aoe cap would make spike damage the meta. It would encourage the instant kill classes that every mmo has discouraged because theres no real flow to combat or time to make any decisions to react. To remove the aoe cap, you would have to seriously redesign every class’s game mechanics from scratch, which we all know Anet will not do.

or as some people have suggested only remove the damage cap but keep the healing/boon cap in place…but that seems completely unfair to the support classes imo.

Plus, the 25 remaining necros in the 40 man zerg will not have their aoe’s capped anymore and therefore melt down the 15 man group quickly…

Finally at least someone understands that removing the AoE cap will do the exact opposite of what people hope for. It will only encourage even larger zergs.

Only if those 15 people are standing on top of each other. The counter to aoe that has worked for years in every other game is a little skill called spreading the hell out.

Forzani.2584:

Rapier.3675:

Forzani.2584:

Just read this …

‘There will be spells to detect stealthed individuals’

What a crazy concept

was already done in numerous older games, so nothing new there.

No way

Lineage 2 all archers skill…. http://l2wiki.com/Detection

even in GW2 ranger have some counter ability for stealth http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_'Em%22

ZudetGambeous.9573:

What version of WvW are you guys playing that conditions are good? In my version of WvW there are 20-30 AOE cleanses per second. I don’t think i’ve ever managed to even get 3 stacks of bleed on someone for longer than 2 seconds. Conditions are SO bad in WvW that you would literally be better off not attacking at all because many times the conditions get converted into boons…

^this.
Hammer train is being abused like the guardian blob was at gw2 realease time, and guardians got nerfed and never got a decent buf after that.

Rapier.3675:

Forzani.2584:

Rapier.3675:

Forzani.2584:

Just read this …

‘There will be spells to detect stealthed individuals’

What a crazy concept

was already done in numerous older games, so nothing new there.

No way

Lineage 2 all archers skill…. http://l2wiki.com/Detection

even in GW2 ranger have some counter ability for stealth http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_'Em%22

that reveal is on the ranger and his pet, not the thief or Mesmer they are fighting. it is the most heinous nerf ever bestowed on a profession in the game. talk about pulling the last tooth in a starving dog. /facepalm

Jim Hunter.6821:

Only if those 15 people are standing on top of each other. The counter to aoe that has worked for years in every other game is a little skill called spreading the hell out.

But this will also mean that the 15 people will no longer benefit from the Aoe buffs and condi cleanse that they are giving to each other otherwise, which will make them even weaker. You have to focus somewhere. Which will make you vulnerable and with removed Aoe cap, even more so.

Plus, the zerg can spread out as well and still has more buffs and higher concentration of condition AoE, no longer limited by any cap.

Halvorn.9831:

Plus, the zerg can spread out as well and still has more buffs and higher concentration of condition AoE, no longer limited by any cap.

You understand the condition cap and aoe cap are two different things right? Condition builds actually would become viable in zerg warfare because people wouldn’t be standing on top of each other, but it doesn’t mean 25 people would all be able to apply their conditions to one person.

Zerg battles would be more like multiple havok squads fighting together instead of two blobs auto-attacking. The more skillful, coordinated groups would be able to wipe out larger groups. God help the groups trying to rez dead players if you could just aoe everyone sitting in the same spot.

Even Ret would be less of a problem because if you are hitting one group with Ret and you had no way of stripping it you could just switch targets. Right now Ret makes it so the only option for certain classes is to not attack at all because even though your damage is being spread out amongst their blob you are receiving damage every time.

Removing the aoe limit would force people to play smarter rather than just rolling around in the biggest blob they can find and PvDing doors.

I find myself caring less and less about WvW. And with this nonsense where arenanet drops all pretense and just flat out gives the bigger servers better rewards for the upcomming tournament, i wonder if i’ll even bother with that.

Dedicating a greater effort to getting the meta achievement because youre getting stomped every match and still ending up with a considerably worst reward. Whoever thought that was a good idea should never be trusted again.

@ANET, I do think the ferocity changes should NOT apply to WvW. Let it be a PvE only thing.

It will change the WvW fights and i hope so, if destroys “mindless” hammer trains it is a good thing.