Guild Wars 2

only thing that would remedy the situation is if oceanice had its own servers and brackets.

when we steamroll ioj and sos during the day and than lose alot of ground overnight with a skeleton crew on ET, i dont really mind, we just take it back next day.

nilco.8457:

Keldrath.4735:

It’s the ultimate noob mentality honestly.

When a noob loses, they blame the game. I mean, it must be the game that’s at fault right? they could never lose because they are so uber mega awesome. So the game must be broken.

When good players lose, they say, why did we lose? and what could we have done better? Then they look for solutions. That’s what the top servers did. They saw a problem, and they solved it. They didn’t blame the game and demand things be changed.

So all you nightcap complainers out there can either stick with the noob mentality and blame the game for your own losses, or accept the fact that you are being beat by servers that are better than yours and work on getting better. Your choice.

Says the Hedge of Denravi bandwagoner, cheers.

Let me try it your way :

Why did we lose? We dont have the same amount of players in wvwvw during the night.

How can we fix it? Find people from other timezones to play. (or have arenanet find a solution, like limiting population according to demand to get in for example, but we dont want any of that, its noob mentality)

So the solution for everyone is, go out find yourself a guild from a different timezone and FORCE them to move to your server! If they dont want to, employ them or kill there familes to get them to come over and help you win in a game!

Right Hedge Bandwagoner?

I’ve been on Henge since the first moment the live servers opened for headstart boyo.

Just accept the fact that your server is losing to better servers and get over it. Those better servers will move up in the rankings then maybe the next matchup you will cry a little less.

nilco.8457:

Kingface.9781:

nilco.8457:

Oh kingface, your ignorance is only trumped by your arrogance.

We obviously have a 24/7 presence but not like Viznuah Square, and that is the problem, the game should NOT be won because of a couple hours during the night, 24/7 is supposed to be 24/7 not just 8 hours of night right?

If all matches get won between 2am and 9am thats not 24/7 is it?

Please think before you post.

You should be less blinded by your would-be rocking skill of #2 because when you will be beaten by another 24/7 server than VS, you will surely come here and whine for unfairness once and again as usual. Because, yes it will happen and sooner you can think.

Anyway, I let you trust whatever you want. I don’t have much business with troller like you.

Troller? get real.

And bring on servers that will beat us out of our second posistion, you still have riverside and desolation to knock out of the rotation, bring it on.

You will see. I predict that, the next or the one after matchup rotation, in the current state of thing, FS won’t be against VS anymore. Bet?

nilco.8457:

How can we fix it? Find people from other timezones to play. (or have arenanet find a solution, like limiting population according to demand to get in for example, but we dont want any of that, its noob mentality)

So the solution for everyone is, go out find yourself a guild from a different timezone and FORCE them to move to your server! If they dont want to, employ them or kill there familes to get them to come over and help you win in a game!

Right Hedge Bandwagoner?

Or you can play better, harder, more determined, and more organized during the day. Ever consider that? Or did you think that fighting against two entire servers of living, breathing, intelligent human beings was going to be easy?

nilco.8457:

As it is now, me, your mum, your best friend and his sister, we cant do ANYTHING to impact how many people enter WvWvW during the night. We require guilds from other time zones you say, Why ill get right on that good sir.

The f-u-c-k man, thats not a solution you ignorant son of a dolyak.

+1 for amusing namecalling.

And why should you be able to do anything about something when you’re not on? Explain to me and the rest of the forums. Oh, it’s not fair? We’ve already established that WvW isn’t fair. It’s not fair when a zerg of 40 mows down a group of 20. It’s not fair when a guild gets on vent and coordinates a 10 golem rush on a keep. It’s not fair when two servers gang up on one.

Like I mentioned earlier in the thread: expand you concept of what it really means to be an entire server vs an entire server. Only then can you get past complaining about fairness and start moving on to figuring out ways to beat the everliving crap out of your enemies.

Not many people are asking for a balanced WvWvW as that would go against the whole point of WvWvW. People are asking for ArenaNet to mitigate the snowball effect of servers 100% capping during the night, then just defended during the day.

And is it not possible for your server to outplay the defenders and take it back when you do have people on? The idea that you’re entitled to keep what you’re not there to defend is an idea that people need to get over. The idea that just because one server holds most of the map makes them invincible and unbeatable is another.

I understand that you play on a low-tier server and do not understand any of the complaints. And as you dont understand it, just do us all a favour and shut your mouth kid.

Aaaannnndd -1 for needless insult.

I understand that people’s perception of the problem stems from their lack of experience with the WvW style of combat. Too many people are unaccustomed or completely new to the kind of persistent PvP that happens in WvW, and have some pretty strong misconceptions about what it really means to have a persistent battle over territory. I understand that it’s going to take time for people to acclimate themselves to this type of combat and develop tactics and strategy and organization to deal with these situations. and time for servers to balance themselves out.

That’s one of the best parts about GW2 not having a monthly sub. We all have as much time as we want or need.

What is it people cant grasp about why night capping is a problem?

I will try my best to contain my rage and explain the problem in a way even small children could understand.

Okey so here we go :

Lets assume that a wvwvw allows 100 people per server, per map. Thats 400 players from any server at any time.

20.00 Primetime.
Server A : 400 players (100 each map)
Server B : 400 players (100 each map)
Server C: 400 players (100 each map)

This could be called a “fair match” right? even numbers, not counting people afk in the maps or doing jumping puzzles, but the numbers are even right?

03.00 (night time)
Server A : 70 players (split across 4 maps)
Server B : 400 players (100 each map)
Server C: 65 players (split across 4 maps)

Now all numbers are pulled out of a very nice top hat, and its obviously not official numbers.

But by the illustration or indeed example, a smart man might see the problem. Its alot easier taking a keep with 100 players vs 20 then it is taking a tower with 100 players vs 100 players, right?

To spell it out : When WvWvW population is even, during primetime for example, its alot harder for any single server to take 100% of the maps, its also alot harder to take a single keep/tower.

But during the night when then numbers are not even it is much more simple, no defenders require smaller numbers to capture stuff.

That in a nutshell is the problem with night capping. It has been read and understood by a 6 year old boy, so I assume the people here will grasp it aswell.

Yes, we understood obviously but I assume you are not reading the entire threads of people not going your way when people tell you to be patient because things will be balanced by themself and servers A, C and X will fight together because of the average of night people and server B, F and G will fight because of their 400 people by night.

Kingface.9781:

Yes, we understood obviously but I assume you are not reading the entire threads of people not going your way when people tell you to be patient because things will be balanced by themself and servers A, C and X will fight together because of the average of night people and server B, F and G will fight because of their 400 people by night.

And I keep telling you thats NOT how it works, the ranking is not based on actual population under a 24/7 period, its based on numbers ok? Not numbers as in how many points a server gets, but a kind of ELO rating.

There is a established ranking (stickied on the forum) taken from the algorithm, that shows the points of each server, this number fluctuates throughout a match, and the servers with the closest ratings get matched vs each other. As it stands now the rotation is at the top that the third server gets switched, the second remain the same.

In the middle bracket the top server and bottom server will be rotated out, until the point the top server reaches a point where it cant be rotated forward. Understand? No?

Ok look at this :
2037.296 Vizunah Square
1881.94 Far Shiverpeaks
1838.906 Desolation
1800.944 Riverside

This is the bracket im in. The team that finish third, will be switched with the 4th team on the list. Top team cant move, second team dont move being second.

1727.343 Augury Rock
1705.124 Kodash
1642.647 Aurora Glade

This is the bracket riverside/desolation can be in, top and bottom gets rotated out accordingly.

Makes sense? I bet it does now.

Educated.

It’s not about fairness. It’s about it not being fun.

I really don’t think you should be talking about this until you’ve had to try to defend a garrison with less than 10 people against around 100 night cappers. We can kickkitten all we want during the day, but it will always come back to those at best 4 to 1 odds.

I want to make it clear that I’m not saying this because I free transferred to the best server in the game.

WvWvW is not meant to be fair or even, it never has been. There’s a reason why it’s always been said that you need three sides for rvr to work right- because people have no clue what they are talking about. If you want even play there’s spvp- I have never, ever, ever seen world pvp that is even remotely even- it ALWAYS comes down to big zergs versus big zergs- and sure, yes, sometimes you get some ultra guilds that come in and through superior planning and organization are able to destroy swarming masses twice their size but in general it’s numbers that matter most.

Life isn’t fair, war isn’t fair- you want fair you have the rest of the boring game to have your hand held through. World pvp is the last bastion in mmos free of constant interference and limits- and even then we have these stupid limits on the number of players who can be in at any time. Let’s just ruin everything why don’t we?

Also- yes, this was said because I’m awesome for xferring to Henge- we rule you dweebs! Rage moar!!!

Kingface.9781:

Yes, we understood obviously but I assume you are not reading the entire threads of people not going your way when people tell you to be patient because things will be balanced by themself and servers A, C and X will fight together because of the average of night people and server B, F and G will fight because of their 400 people by night.

And then next rotation;
A vs C vs B
X vs F vs G

Problem persists, GG for the 3 servers playing with absolutely nothing to play for.

Servers with night capping do not play in a ladder of their own – I keep seeing this heavily implied over and over and I’m getting very tired reading it.

nilco.8457:

Kingface.9781:

Yes, we understood obviously but I assume you are not reading the entire threads of people not going your way when people tell you to be patient because things will be balanced by themself and servers A, C and X will fight together because of the average of night people and server B, F and G will fight because of their 400 people by night.

And I keep telling you thats NOT how it works, the ranking is not based on actual population under a 24/7 period, its based on numbers ok? Not numbers as in how many points a server gets, but a kind of ELO rating.

There is a established ranking (stickied on the forum) taken from the algorithm, that shows the points of each server, this number fluctuates throughout a match, and the servers with the closest ratings get matched vs each other. As it stands now the rotation is at the top that the third server gets switched, the second remain the same.

In the middle bracket the top server and bottom server will be rotated out, until the point the top server reaches a point where it cant be rotated forward. Understand? No?

Ok look at this :
2037.296 Vizunah Square
1881.94 Far Shiverpeaks
1838.906 Desolation
1800.944 Riverside

This is the bracket im in. The team that finish third, will be switched with the 4th team on the list. Top team cant move, second team dont move being second.

1727.343 Augury Rock
1705.124 Kodash
1642.647 Aurora Glade

This is the bracket riverside/desolation can be in, top and bottom gets rotated out accordingly.

Makes sense? I bet it does now.

Educated.

You can be arrogant as long as you want and look like a raging whiner but the fact is you’re wrong. Yes, the amount of points that your server is being able to provide all the week long is a large part of the calculation to the end.

Stop trying to look like a smartass, you’re not. What you explain is so basis thinking and falls so within the meaning, I don’t know why I keep arguing with you…

Mara Gossep.2761:

I play on low pop at night, not medium. I play on EU server. Btw, you tell me to do something about it. Exactly what do you want me to do to make people stay online during off hours?
You act like it is my fault that people are not online during those hours, and my responsibility to fix. You act like it is the players responsibility to fix the high pop vs low pop issue at some hours. ANet could provide mechanics which would fix it (dynamic pop limit), making it medium pop vs medium pop, without moving any players around between servers. As I wrote elsewhere, people don’t only leave WWW because they need sleep, but also because of having little to no chance of getting any points (catch-22). At this point the only outcome of the WWW is a bleeding wallet and close to zero rewards. Don’t blame the player for an unfair matchup system please.

The total server population has no bearing on the W3 population. A low population server where 100% of the players solely do W3 would mean queues for them -

As for your issue on your EU server – what do you expect to change ? Either you are willing to form alliances or move server – or you will just have to wait, do nothing and hope that AN does something to help you… one is you taking your destiny in your own hands, the other is just denial of your current situation.

If you want someone to cover your wins during your off peak hours you could simply play on a US server – Blackgate have been trying to recruit EU guilds (they saw what they are missing and try to do something about it) – so you could tfr there – in fact any EU guild could.

Those US guilds moaning on NA servers, you could move to EU servers.

Then we would see more 24/7 coverage, as well as more competitive servers – the problem is most people are not willing – it’s much easier to moan on the forums than to actually do anything constructive.

Me and the girls went out shopping on a Saturday afternoon and returned to see all the keeps have been taken. How dare they take our keeps when we went out shopping! It’s not fair that we went to have a life when all of you nolifers stayed at home on a sunny Saturday to take keeps!

Really people, this is how seriously stupid whines about nightcapping is about. WvW is about 24/7 warfare. If your server can only put the people out for 6 hours a day, your server deserves to lose for 18 hours.

Afterall, do we ask generals to line their soldiers up at a stated time for a mexican shootout in real warfare?

florence.1674:

Me and the girls went out shopping on a Saturday afternoon and returned to see all the keeps have been taken. How dare they take our keeps when we went out shopping! It’s not fair that we went to have a life when all of you nolifers stayed at home on a sunny Saturday to take keeps!

Really people, this is how seriously stupid whines about nightcapping is about. WvW is about 24/7 warfare. If your server can only put the people out for 6 hours a day, your server deserves to lose for 18 hours.

Afterall, do we ask generals to line their soldiers up at a stated time for a mexican shootout in real warfare?

Actually we did for over 300 years have organized battles, where soliders acutally lined up then charged each other. They also never fought during the night :-)

But discard the history lesson (educated) You are simple minded and feeble, oh ignore the insults.

WvWvW is not about who have the most players on during the night, after all “night” consists of 12 hours, there are 24 on a day. But “night” in gw2 is from 3AM-9AM which is 6 hours. Should 6 hours be all that WvWvW really is? Last time I checked 6 hours was not 24/7. Outwitted. Your argument is invalid and ignorant, I just turned your argument on yourself while still making more sense and having better points. Die in a fire.

Kingface.9781:

nilco.8457:

Kingface.9781:

Yes, we understood obviously but I assume you are not reading the entire threads of people not going your way when people tell you to be patient because things will be balanced by themself and servers A, C and X will fight together because of the average of night people and server B, F and G will fight because of their 400 people by night.

And I keep telling you thats NOT how it works, the ranking is not based on actual population under a 24/7 period, its based on numbers ok? Not numbers as in how many points a server gets, but a kind of ELO rating.

There is a established ranking (stickied on the forum) taken from the algorithm, that shows the points of each server, this number fluctuates throughout a match, and the servers with the closest ratings get matched vs each other. As it stands now the rotation is at the top that the third server gets switched, the second remain the same.

In the middle bracket the top server and bottom server will be rotated out, until the point the top server reaches a point where it cant be rotated forward. Understand? No?

Ok look at this :
2037.296 Vizunah Square
1881.94 Far Shiverpeaks
1838.906 Desolation
1800.944 Riverside

This is the bracket im in. The team that finish third, will be switched with the 4th team on the list. Top team cant move, second team dont move being second.

1727.343 Augury Rock
1705.124 Kodash
1642.647 Aurora Glade

This is the bracket riverside/desolation can be in, top and bottom gets rotated out accordingly.

Makes sense? I bet it does now.

Educated.

You can be arrogant as long as you want and look like a raging whiner but the fact is you’re wrong. Yes, the amount of points that your server is being able to provide all the week long is a large part of the calculation to the end.

Stop trying to look like a smartass, you’re not. What you explain is so basis thinking and falls so within the meaning, I don’t know why I keep arguing with you…

And as for you kingface. Its obviously not basic thinking for you, as you still dont understand. You dont grasp the basics of a ladder, and as such a ladder seems to reach way above your head (get it? ladders are taller then you, and people in general)

Anyway tell me using the above format provided in the quote of me and explain to me how the ranking system will fix this, dont type your own kitten, use the template I used. Go ahead, im waiting.

And also, I argue with you because you amuse me, the same way a cat playing with a roach amuses the cat.

nilco.8457

We obviously have a 24/7 presence but not like Viznuah Square, and that is the problem, the game should NOT be won because of a couple hours during the night, 24/7 is supposed to be 24/7 not just 8 hours of night right?

So you are saying that your server and VS are equally strong during 2/3 of the time, but they are way stronger during the other 1/3 and that this is unfair and ANet should make some changes?

nilco.8457:

What is it people cant grasp about why night capping is a problem?

What is it people cant grasp about having less chance of a victory with smaller army? You need tactics. If that doesn’t help too… sorry – you lose. The next time your server will face another server that is less organized, has lesser army, etc. and you’ll have bigger chance to win.

…
Lets assume that a wvwvw allows 100 people per server, per map. Thats 400 players from any server at any time.

20.00 Primetime.
Server A : 400 players (100 each map)
Server B : 400 players (100 each map)
Server C: 400 players (100 each map)

This could be called a “fair match” right? even numbers, not counting people afk in the maps or doing jumping puzzles, but the numbers are even right?

03.00 (night time)
Server A : 70 players (split across 4 maps)
Server B : 400 players (100 each map)
Server C: 65 players (split across 4 maps)

Now all numbers are pulled out of a very nice top hat, and its obviously not official numbers.

But by the illustration or indeed example, a smart man might see the problem. Its alot easier taking a keep with 100 players vs 20 then it is taking a tower with 100 players vs 100 players, right?

Of course it is easier. That’s why the 100-players team wins.

To spell it out : When WvWvW population is even, during primetime for example, its alot harder for any single server to take 100% of the maps, its also alot harder to take a single keep/tower.

But during the night when then numbers are not even it is much more simple, no defenders require smaller numbers to capture stuff.

That in a nutshell is the problem with night capping. It has been read and understood by a 6 year old boy, so I assume the people here will grasp it aswell.

I actually didn’t understand that problem – is it that your team is defending really hard that tower against the equally strong opponent and you feel bad when you leave the tower and the enemies capture it? You are right – that should be fixed. No towers/keeps, maybe just the camps, should be available for capturing when there are no players inside. In fact the whole WvW should be shut down when at least one of the servers has gone to bed/work/restroom.

Don’t you think this is the idea of WvW? Chaos, strategy, battles, and fun… whenever you login, not only when X members of server Y are awake? Where will be the fun when I login to play at night and me and the other non-lifer-6-year-old-kids from my team can’t capture any structure because… you are asleep?
“Oh look _guildmate’s_name_here, a tower! Let’s take it back from _opponent_server’s_name_here! Let’s kick them out of our lands for good!”
“Nooo man, we can’t. They are asleep now”

You should really give the ranking system some time to put your server in the lower tiers where you will meet either another server with 24/7 active player base that will beat you and leave you behind, or a world with similar prime times activity.
In the meantime you can check sPvP or football, basketball and other sports where the teams are of the same size.

Here’s a short list of a few alternative changes that could be made; 1) swap the current orb bonus with the current outnumbered buff; 2) remove the waypoints in WvWvW except in the respective spawn camps and in Stonemist (as a tier3 upgrade, ofc); 3) implement a wall/door health pool modifier which bolsters these values for realms being dominated, and which reduces these values for realms that are dominating.

I could probably come up with some more, but these seem worth exploring first.

EDIT: Shame on me for thinking this thread was about domination issues, and not night capping.

nilco.8457:

nilco.8457:

…

Ok look at this :
2037.296 Vizunah Square
1881.94 Far Shiverpeaks
1838.906 Desolation
1800.944 Riverside

This is the bracket im in. The team that finish third, will be switched with the 4th team on the list. Top team cant move, second team dont move being second.

1727.343 Augury Rock
1705.124 Kodash
1642.647 Aurora Glade

This is the bracket riverside/desolation can be in, top and bottom gets rotated out accordingly.

Makes sense? I bet it does now.

Educated.

….
Anyway tell me using the above format provided in the quote of me and explain to me how the ranking system will fix this, dont type your own kitten, use the template I used. Go ahead, im waiting.

And also, I argue with you because you amuse me, the same way a cat playing with a roach amuses the cat.

Can I explain it for you, please?

After few weeks of whining and sleeping your server (FS?) will have won very few points. In the same time, some of the lower tier servers – Augury Rock, Kodash or Aurora Glade (in your example) would have nightcapped the hell out of the other 2 teams and would have way more points than your server. So they will go up, you go down. At some point you will reach an equally matched server… Or in case they all do nightcapping (i.e. play at night) your server will drop at the bottom and will be matched against the 2 servers that do the least nightcapping and you will have chance.

I think that’s how the system works.

Freespirit – Nilco

Instead of hi-jacking the whole thread, how about you guys PM each other these long derailment posts ?

Aedgyth.4790:

Freespirit – Nilco

Instead of hi-jacking the whole thread, how about you guys PM each other these long derailment posts ?

You are right – I apologize. I just felt irritated of all the “change requests” in the last few days and wanted to express my opinion.
The thing is that I really like what Eliteseraph.4970 said in his/hers first post:

It’s not MEANT to be a completely fair matchup where all sides have their team numbers balanced perfectly. In truth, it’s quite the opposite: The fact that a server is, at all times, fighting against TWO other servers is fundamentally unbalanced! The entire reason why WvW is open-ended is to promote unbalanced and uncontrolled warfare! Spontaneous, chaotic, non-stop combat.

And that’s what I love about WvW. Therefore I am against the suggested changes.

nilco.8457:

What is it people cant grasp about why night capping is a problem?

I will try my best to contain my rage and explain the problem in a way even small children could understand.
OK so here we go…..

……That in a nutshell is the problem with night capping. It has been read and understood by a 6 year old boy, so I assume the people here will grasp it aswell.

Oh we all understand exactly what people claim the problem is. But on the other side of the argument, you need to understand that the point some of us are making is that the fundamental nature of WvW precludes your argument entirely.

You guys keep repeating that the population imbalance diromg off hours players is somehow not fair.

We keep repeating that the game not being fair is the very nature of WvW!

If you want absolute fair matchups, Anet has provided you with an entire levelling and bracketed system with completely even number of people on each side, with access to exactly the same gear, and played at the same level. It’s known as: sPVP

WvW, as you may have noticed, is not even remotely similar to sPVP. Even with an absolutely equal number of people, you still have a wide range of players of all different levels and gear. The game might auto-level them to 80, but that doesn’t give them automatic access to full exotics with a completely tailored upgrade loadout, nor does it give them access to all of their trait points or skills.

So even at the simplest level of a random, 1v1 encounter in the open field, the game can not guarantee that the matchup is going to be even or fair.

And yet some of you guys are STILL demanding that WvW be evenly matched at all times. Do you not see the fallacy of basing your entire perception of what is fair and balanced solely on population numbers at a given time of day?

Ultimately we get it. We really do. Some of you guys don’t like having to fight against unfair odds. Most of all we understand that you really REALLY don’t like feeling as though the fate of your server is being dictated by a minority of players when you’re not even there to fight back.

But you guys also need to understand that THIS IS THE REALITY OF WVW!

It is the combined might, population, skill, coordination, and everything else that your server is or isn’t pitted against the same for two other servers.

If there is a strong night crew in your opposition, you need to either coordinate your own night people to fight back however they can, even if it’s only disrupting supply camps, or you need your day people to pull together and figure out how to take back what you can.

If you can’t beat people one way, then try something else. Coordinate your guilds to massively gear out your elite WvW teams. Farm for golems like we’ve seen in so many youtube videos. Deny everyone but your server access to the jump puzzle, and farm piles of badges in the process. Step up to the plate and do something other than complain to daddy Anet that it isn’t fair.

THAT is also the reality of WvW!

nilco.8457:

What is it people cant grasp about why night capping is a problem?

I will try my best to contain my rage and explain the problem in a way even small children could understand.
OK so here we go…..

……That in a nutshell is the problem with night capping. It has been read and understood by a 6 year old boy, so I assume the people here will grasp it aswell.

Oh we all understand exactly what people claim the problem is. But on the other side of the argument, you need to understand that the point some of us are making is that the fundamental nature of WvW precludes your argument entirely.

You guys keep repeating that the population imbalance diromg off hours players is somehow not fair.

We keep repeating that the game not being fair is the very nature of WvW!

If you want absolute fair matchups, Anet has provided you with an entire levelling and bracketed system with completely even number of people on each side, with access to exactly the same gear, and played at the same level. It’s known as: sPVP

WvW, as you may have noticed, is not even remotely similar to sPVP. Even with an absolutely equal number of people, you still have a wide range of players of all different levels and gear. The game might auto-level them to 80, but that doesn’t give them automatic access to full exotics with a completely tailored upgrade loadout, nor does it give them access to all of their trait points or skills.

So even at the simplest level of a random, 1v1 encounter in the open field, the game can not guarantee that the matchup is going to be even or fair.

And yet some of you guys are STILL demanding that WvW be evenly matched at all times. Do you not see the fallacy of basing your entire perception of what is fair and balanced solely on population numbers at a given time of day?

Ultimately we get it. We really do. Some of you guys don’t like having to fight against unfair odds. Most of all we understand that you really REALLY don’t like feeling as though the fate of your server is being dictated by a minority of players when you’re not even there to fight back.

But you guys also need to understand that THIS IS THE REALITY OF WVW!

It is the combined might, population, skill, coordination, and everything else that your server is or isn’t pitted against the same for two other servers.

If there is a strong night crew in your opposition, you need to either coordinate your own night people to fight back however they can, even if it’s only disrupting supply camps, or you need your day people to pull together and figure out how to take back what you can.

If you can’t beat people one way, then try something else. Coordinate your guilds to massively gear out your elite WvW teams. Farm for golems like we’ve seen in so many youtube videos. Deny everyone but your server access to the jump puzzle, and farm piles of badges in the process.

And if you keep doing that long enough, the ranking system will put you against the kinds of SERVERS that you’re most suited to facing. Not the most equal day shift.

THAT is also the reality of WvW! Don’t you understand that this is the reason why WvW is so incredibly awesome? If you take away all of the uncertainty and built in imbalance and chaos, all you’re going to be left with is just one big fat oversized sPVP match.

And if that’s what you want, I suggest that instead of asking for Anet to change WvW, that you instead ask them to build bigger sPVP maps instead, and leave WvW alone.

Eliteseraph.4970:

nilco.8457:

What is it people cant grasp about why night capping is a problem?

I will try my best to contain my rage and explain the problem in a way even small children could understand.
OK so here we go…..

……That in a nutshell is the problem with night capping. It has been read and understood by a 6 year old boy, so I assume the people here will grasp it aswell.

Oh we all understand exactly what people claim the problem is. But on the other side of the argument, you need to understand that the point some of us are making is that the fundamental nature of WvW precludes your argument entirely.

You guys keep repeating that the population imbalance diromg off hours players is somehow not fair.

We keep repeating that the game not being fair is the very nature of WvW!

If you want absolute fair matchups, Anet has provided you with an entire levelling and bracketed system with completely even number of people on each side, with access to exactly the same gear, and played at the same level. It’s known as: sPVP

WvW, as you may have noticed, is not even remotely similar to sPVP. Even with an absolutely equal number of people, you still have a wide range of players of all different levels and gear. The game might auto-level them to 80, but that doesn’t give them automatic access to full exotics with a completely tailored upgrade loadout, nor does it give them access to all of their trait points or skills.

So even at the simplest level of a random, 1v1 encounter in the open field, the game can not guarantee that the matchup is going to be even or fair.

And yet some of you guys are STILL demanding that WvW be evenly matched at all times. Do you not see the fallacy of basing your entire perception of what is fair and balanced solely on population numbers at a given time of day?

Ultimately we get it. We really do. Some of you guys don’t like having to fight against unfair odds. Most of all we understand that you really REALLY don’t like feeling as though the fate of your server is being dictated by a minority of players when you’re not even there to fight back.

But you guys also need to understand that THIS IS THE REALITY OF WVW!

It is the combined might, population, skill, coordination, and everything else that your server is or isn’t pitted against the same for two other servers.

If there is a strong night crew in your opposition, you need to either coordinate your own night people to fight back however they can, even if it’s only disrupting supply camps, or you need your day people to pull together and figure out how to take back what you can.

If you can’t beat people one way, then try something else. Coordinate your guilds to massively gear out your elite WvW teams. Farm for golems like we’ve seen in so many youtube videos. Deny everyone but your server access to the jump puzzle, and farm piles of badges in the process. Step up to the plate and do something other than complain to daddy Anet that it isn’t fair.

THAT is also the reality of WvW! Don’t you understand that this is the reason why WvW is so incredibly awesome? If you take away all of the uncertainty and built in imbalance and chaos, all you’re going to be left with is just one big fat oversized sPVP match.

And if that’s what you want, I suggest that instead of asking for Anet to change WvW, that you instead ask them to build bigger sPVP maps instead, and leave WvW alone.

Friend, what you say I have never stated, im not asking for it to become “fair” in any other way then to even the numbers out, have a pop cap depending on demand, who could that possibly hurt? The only people that would hurt id tell ya is the people who relay solely on outnumbering the opponents, adding a way to force even numbers would not impose some big stamp of “balance” or “fairness” all it would do is level the playing field. It would promote the need of tactics, as opposed to zerging with bigger numbers. Has that ever occurred to you friend? No? Then sit down, relax and think about it.

That its in some unimaginable way fun to be outnumbers because of uncertainty falls way above my head. If you want uncertainty start crossing streets with your eyes closed. Drive fast through intersections when the light is red. Pick a fight with the biggest guy you see. All of those things promote the uncertainty of your future life on this mortal realm, are any of them fun? I think not.

I see your point of view so try to see mine.

nilco.8457:

And that my friend is where you are wrong, points in the WvWvW does not affect the match making rating. They are a scoring system nothing more, nothing less. The MMR is adjusted according to wins and losses, scaled by finishing position.

As you can see by the ranking there are 2 servers above 1800 MMR, when desolation lose this week, there mmr will go down, regardless of how many points they got, while our MMR finishing second will go up slightly because we won against desolation. Riverside will get more MMR and take desolations place, where we will beat them like always and they get knocked back down. Thus the circle has been completed.

The thing you dont understand is that we are at the point in the ladder where we belong, thus we wont move, thus the ranking system wont “fix” anything.

Now go away.

And that my friend is… just you speculating about the future.
Plenty of things can happen that will change the table. How can you say you will always be second? Have you thought that some of the severs below yours might get better at WvW (new players, players from other servers, experience, etc.)? Haven’t someone from your server said people stop playing WvW? Don’t you think your enemies now know your weak spot – night shifts?
Not sure if it is allowed but imagine this extreme example – the first and second server in the table don’t like your server so their big guilds decide to make a plot against your server, leaving you always at third place. This way you’ll get fewer points and at some point your server will become third in the table and then passed by the next strong server that is winning.

freespirit.4291:

nilco.8457:

And that my friend is where you are wrong, points in the WvWvW does not affect the match making rating. They are a scoring system nothing more, nothing less. The MMR is adjusted according to wins and losses, scaled by finishing position.

As you can see by the ranking there are 2 servers above 1800 MMR, when desolation lose this week, there mmr will go down, regardless of how many points they got, while our MMR finishing second will go up slightly because we won against desolation. Riverside will get more MMR and take desolations place, where we will beat them like always and they get knocked back down. Thus the circle has been completed.

The thing you dont understand is that we are at the point in the ladder where we belong, thus we wont move, thus the ranking system wont “fix” anything.

Now go away.

And that my friend is… just you speculating about the future.
Plenty of things can happen that will change the table. How can you say you will always be second? Have you thought that some of the severs below yours might get better at WvW (new players, players from other servers, experience, etc.)? Haven’t someone from your server said people stop playing WvW? Don’t you think your enemies now know your weak spot – night shifts?
Not sure if it is allowed but imagine this extreme example – the first and second server in the table don’t like your server so their big guilds decide to make a plot against your server, leaving you always at third place. This way you’ll get fewer points and at some point your server will become third in the table and then passed by the next strong server that is winning.

Why yes, anything can happen, but for a new server to topple us out of our secure second position much must happen, first they have to get through desolation and riverside (no to mention the 2 other teams in the riverside bracket) But as I see it, unless riverside beats us next week we wont be going anywhere in the foreseeable future (meaning the next 3 weeks) And Viznuah Square holds a position of hate amongst desolation and us.

I see your point of view so try to see mine.

I have seen your point of view already completely catered to and met in every regard with a completely fleshed out system and aspect of the game called sPVP.

Eliteseraph.4970:

I see your point of view so try to see mine.

I have seen your point of view already completely catered to with a completely fleshed out system and aspect of the game called sPVP.

Wait what? Your telling me I can capture and upgrade keeps and castles in sPVP? That I can do jumping puzzles and have siege weapons? Color me impressed, they must have added all that when I was sleeping!

Lappdancer.4857:

Tzash.5748:

Mara Gossep.2761:

I just find it silly that it is population which is dictating who’s on top of the ladder. And I am not alone with this point of view. Being skilled and coordinated during your prime time, means zip zero if noone is online to protect your structures at other hours.

If population is dictating everything then why is Eredon Terrace (medium pop during US offpeak) ranked #4 and currently kicking the tail of 2 unofficial Oceanic servers (both high pop during US offpeak). These are facts, not conjecture.

And if you don’t like losing things during offpeak then get your own offpeak players to do something about it. 3 medium servers and the rest high during Oceanic prime time proves that almost everyone has a healthy offpeak pop. Again, these are facts not conjecture.

Server population is not the same as WvW population. I would not be surprised if ET has 24 hour WvW queues which would make their WvW population as high as any other server.

Nope, usually I get in instantly. Can even change borderland maps instantly. At most I wait in a queue for a couple minutes tops (US primetime).

nilco.8457:

Friend, what you say I have never stated, im not asking for it to become “fair” in any other way then to even the numbers out, have a pop cap depending on demand, who could that possibly hurt? The only people that would hurt id tell ya is the people who relay solely on outnumbering the opponents, adding a way to force even numbers would not impose some big stamp of “balance” or “fairness” all it would do is level the playing field. It would promote the need of tactics, as opposed to zerging with bigger numbers. Has that ever occurred to you friend? No? Then sit down, relax and think about it.
….
I see your point of view so try to see mine.

Weren’t talking to me, but I have to say I find your point of view wrong and unfair.
What if for some reason the server you play against is more active (for example local holidays, vacations…)? Then their server will have to be represented by fewer players, kicking others that would normally play in the queues. Maybe they will be hurt?
So tell me, is your point “Forget about them. They are zergs, who cares if they don’t play? That’s even better for us because now we’ll have a chance to fight them with equal numbers.”?

freespirit.4291:

nilco.8457:

Friend, what you say I have never stated, im not asking for it to become “fair” in any other way then to even the numbers out, have a pop cap depending on demand, who could that possibly hurt? The only people that would hurt id tell ya is the people who relay solely on outnumbering the opponents, adding a way to force even numbers would not impose some big stamp of “balance” or “fairness” all it would do is level the playing field. It would promote the need of tactics, as opposed to zerging with bigger numbers. Has that ever occurred to you friend? No? Then sit down, relax and think about it.
….
I see your point of view so try to see mine.

Weren’t talking to me, but I have to say I find your point of view wrong and unfair.
What if for some reason the server you play against is more active (for example local holidays, vacations…)? Then their server will have to be represented by fewer players, kicking others that would normally play in the queues. Maybe they will be hurt?
So tell me, is your point “Forget about them. They are zergs, who cares if they don’t play? That’s even better for us because now we’ll have a chance to fight them with equal numbers.”?

Well my idea isn’t as simple as I wrote it. I would like them to have instanced borderland which would fill and open with equal demand, this would also remove hour long ques.

Example :
In total 450 people per server wanna play right now.

Instead of throwing them all into 1 WvWvW the system could split the 450 per server into chunks of 50 players, thus creating 3 instances. All point gains would be counted towards a central point hub if you will, you could see your potential points for the instance you are in and those points would be added to the grand total.

Now say there are 50 players from server A and B, but server C only has 25, the system would then not open an instance until server C got 25 more people. This would result in better battles requiring more tactics and cooperation.

nilco.8457:

Wait what? Your telling me I can capture and upgrade keeps and castles in sPVP? That I can do jumping puzzles and have siege weapons? Color me impressed, they must have added all that when I was sleeping!

No, of course not. But what people are asking for is for arbitrary limits to be placed on non-primetime WvW in an effort to make it into something it’s not. Once you start adding those kinds of limits, the eventual outcome is nothing more than a giant sPVP match.

Well my idea isn’t as simple as I wrote it. I would like them to have instanced borderland which would fill and open with equal demand, this would also remove hour long ques.

See, this is exactly what I’m talking about. You might not think of it in the exact terms I used, but what you’re really asking for is to convert WvW into nothing more than a series of sPVP matches. And sPVP already exists, so please stop trying to turn WvW into something it isn’t.

Organise alarm clock raids guys. This is what people did in DAoC. The enemy has held SMC all week? Organise a few guilds to get up at 4am or 5am with a bunch of golems, sneak over to it (IE avoid taking any other objectives) and bull rush it with an insane amount of siege when the enemy population is lower than primetime.

Then roll in the karma and experience when the enemy tries to take it back.

There are very few servers that have a queue at night and I’m betting this would work in most matchups (it certainly would against my server, Fort Aspenwood) and would cause all the crazy upgrades to disappear making it much less of a rock during primetime.

This, however, takes organisation and a willingness to go to bed early in order to wake up early and play before work instead of after. It was a semi-regular occurence in DAoC (even had alarm clock defenses when intel got leaked) and is part of a persistent PvP world.

It’s still early days yet. People will figure it out and matchmaking will get better. An alarm clock zerg can make an absolute ton of exp and karma.

Keldrath.4735:

nilco.8457:

Keldrath.4735:

It’s the ultimate noob mentality honestly.

When a noob loses, they blame the game. I mean, it must be the game that’s at fault right? they could never lose because they are so uber mega awesome. So the game must be broken.

When good players lose, they say, why did we lose? and what could we have done better? Then they look for solutions. That’s what the top servers did. They saw a problem, and they solved it. They didn’t blame the game and demand things be changed.

So all you nightcap complainers out there can either stick with the noob mentality and blame the game for your own losses, or accept the fact that you are being beat by servers that are better than yours and work on getting better. Your choice.

Says the Hedge of Denravi bandwagoner, cheers.

Let me try it your way :

Why did we lose? We dont have the same amount of players in wvwvw during the night.

How can we fix it? Find people from other timezones to play. (or have arenanet find a solution, like limiting population according to demand to get in for example, but we dont want any of that, its noob mentality)

So the solution for everyone is, go out find yourself a guild from a different timezone and FORCE them to move to your server! If they dont want to, employ them or kill there familes to get them to come over and help you win in a game!

Right Hedge Bandwagoner?

I’ve been on Henge since the first moment the live servers opened for headstart boyo.

Just accept the fact that your server is losing to better servers and get over it. Those better servers will move up in the rankings then maybe the next matchup you will cry a little less.

Higher population at right times = Better?
You make me laugh, hard !
You almost make it look like night zerging requires skill.

Mara Gossep.2761:

Keldrath.4735:

nilco.8457:

Keldrath.4735:

It’s the ultimate noob mentality honestly.

When a noob loses, they blame the game. I mean, it must be the game that’s at fault right? they could never lose because they are so uber mega awesome. So the game must be broken.

When good players lose, they say, why did we lose? and what could we have done better? Then they look for solutions. That’s what the top servers did. They saw a problem, and they solved it. They didn’t blame the game and demand things be changed.

So all you nightcap complainers out there can either stick with the noob mentality and blame the game for your own losses, or accept the fact that you are being beat by servers that are better than yours and work on getting better. Your choice.

Says the Hedge of Denravi bandwagoner, cheers.

Let me try it your way :

Why did we lose? We dont have the same amount of players in wvwvw during the night.

How can we fix it? Find people from other timezones to play. (or have arenanet find a solution, like limiting population according to demand to get in for example, but we dont want any of that, its noob mentality)

So the solution for everyone is, go out find yourself a guild from a different timezone and FORCE them to move to your server! If they dont want to, employ them or kill there familes to get them to come over and help you win in a game!

Right Hedge Bandwagoner?

I’ve been on Henge since the first moment the live servers opened for headstart boyo.

Just accept the fact that your server is losing to better servers and get over it. Those better servers will move up in the rankings then maybe the next matchup you will cry a little less.

Higher population at right times = Better?
You make me laugh, hard !
You almost make it look like night zerging requires skill.

Quoted for great truth!

And dont feed the bandwagoner, he is obviously super skilled at WvWvW!

Some people say claiming that matchmaking wont fix the population problems is nothing but speculation.

Claiming that it will is exactly the same kind of speculation.

So far matchmaking hasn’t fixed anything. That is my claim. Untill proven otherwise, this is the reality of here and now. Future speculation is just speculation.

Asking for a few months of patience is not gonna help your case. The problem is here, and obvious to everyone not blinded by their servers night ganking of the low pop servers.

I don’t even see the fun in night ganking. Sure you will get karma & gold.
But what happens the day you are fully geared. I tell you what will happen, as in all other games:
You will start to cry about not having any opposition at night. Suddenly your rewards (Karma & Gold) means nothing to you, and at that point, the game becomes pointless to you. No opposition and no rewards is neither rewarding or fun. At that point, you will find a new game to play.
You may call it speculation, but it is speculation based on other MMO’s history.

nilco.8457:

But discard the history lesson (educated) You are simple minded and feeble, oh ignore the insults.

WvWvW is not about who have the most players on during the night, after all “night” consists of 12 hours, there are 24 on a day. But “night” in gw2 is from 3AM-9AM which is 6 hours. Should 6 hours be all that WvWvW really is? Last time I checked 6 hours was not 24/7. Outwitted. Your argument is invalid and ignorant, I just turned your argument on yourself while still making more sense and having better points. Die in a fire.

Apart from personal insults, I still don’t see where you have any good arguments, in any post so far.

All I have seen is, you want WvW to only matter during the hours you are up. The remaining hours in which you are not up, must be curtailed in the name of “fairness” when in actuality, you are angry because people can play during hours that you can’t, and therefore affect your server’s performance while you are helpless to do anything about it.

To me, I think if your world is unable to supply the necessary skill/players/whatever to win, then its fine to be losing.

HOWEVER, I think it -is- a problem where we have a slippery slope effect where, if you are losing, then people get discouraged and don’t bother playing anymore, and thus you lose even more, etc.

I think one possible solution is to try and incentivise players who are outnumbered to keep fighting, and to incentivise other players to join in during low-population times for their server.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/WvW-Underdog-personal-rewards

Here’s my attempt at producing such an effect. Basically we want a system that announces to players who aren’t in WvW: “Hey, there’s only 10 players from your server on this map, and they’re getting completely kicked. But they’re personally getting great rewards! You can be the 11th person and also get great rewards!”

The effect then equalises out when enough people join in to get a fighting chance.

Basically, if you’re winning, everyone gets rewards. But if your team is losing but you’re still fighting the good fight rather than quitting, then you personally will get lots of rewards too. Glory to the underdogs and all that.

florence.1674:

All I have seen is, you want WvW to only matter during the hours you are up. The remaining hours in which you are not up, must be curtailed in the name of “fairness” when in actuality, you are angry because people can play during hours that you can’t, and therefore affect your server’s performance while you are helpless to do anything about it.

For me, that’s not even slightly it. I’m mostly able to just play at night. I’m forced to defend keeps with anything from 4 to 1 to 10 to 1 odds. Fair? Meh. Fun? Not even slightly. You don’t even get to fight against odds like that. You can’t stand up at the walls. You can’t stand at the gates. You can’t hurt a zerg like that with siege weapons. Your only choice is to slow them down for some sort of sense of pride and waypoint out so you don’t have to pay for armor repairs. It’s not that it’s unfair. It’s that the game doesn’t even really exist during those hours. Through no fault of our own, we simply can’t play the game when we’re matched against oceanic servers.

The poster does not get it, the reason he doesn’t get it is because he is on a server that HAS 24/7 coverage. Therefore he has no way to relate to others, and apparently it looks like he could care less. All I know is he is basically calling everyone else foolish due to his own ignorance to how it actually feels to be on a server without 24/7 coverage. This in my opinion disqualifies him from even commenting on the matter.

Simple solution. Dump or modify the current structure that determines opponents to include matching servers based on similar WvW population over a 24 hour period. If certain servers have large populations during “off hours” then match them up. If they don’t track the actual data which I would be surprised if they didn’t then they can make some good guesses. I’m quite certain that they could look at the maps at midnight and then again at 7am and see certain servers controlling 90-100% of the map that they didn’t at midnight. Match those servers up.

In this thread (like many of the others) we see this:

Person 1 – “We planned to dominate 24/7 WvW & you didn’t. Do all the outside-the-game leg-work we did and be competitive or enjoy losing, <expletive>.”

Person 2 – “I bought this game randomly/because my friends did/whatever and the advertisement said there was fun, competitive world PvP that you could just hop into if you’re more of a ‘casual player’. I’m not finding it fun or competitive, my team cannot win.”

Person 3 – “I’m a troll and can represent either side of the argument just to be a kitten.” Lets ignore person 3 (or try to).

So, person 1’s alliance crushes WvW. Person 2 hates constant death & repair costs, or never being able to make up the point differences in WvW so is demoralized.

Person 2 then either quits, jumps servers to be on the winning side w/ Person 1, or comes to the forum all “uhm, I can’t have fun doing this but I should be able to, what gives?”

What Person 2 will not do is alarm clock. They won’t spend all kinds of out-of-game time forging some globe spanning alliance. They want to log in and have fun playing the game they paid to do so, not have what they’d perceive as a 2nd job just to enjoy their limited leisure time. The system, to them, just seems stacked against them though.

So, how do you balance WvW for both types of player? How can you suggest WvW can be fun for casual players if so much non-casual work is required just to be on even ground?

Ok, this is where someone screams “matchmaking”.

Basically, we have a server pool of different players.
We’ve got ‘World Competitive’ teams who trained and planned for 24/7 warfare.
We’ve got ‘National League’ skilled teams that might be good and competitive when they’re around, but didn’t plan to be (or want to be) 24/7 global alliances.
Then, we’ve got good old fashioned ‘After-Work-Teams’ (you know, like your job’s weekend softball team).

There is nothing wrong with any of these groups, and each bought the game and deserves to play WvW equally, and generally want to be pitted against their own tier of players.

No one joins an after-work football(soccer) team expecting to be pitted against a world champ, professional New Zealand team. Nor did those Kiwis figure they’ll be crushing the crap out of ’Teddy’s Automotive’ on Saturday afternoons.

I just hope these groups are divisible by 3. Then, each gets a good, fair, competitive match-up each week.

Thing is .. if you factor in more variables, there are even more varieties of servers out there. Suddenly, the odds of there being multiples of 3 (so things are even, fair & fun for all) become even more difficult. … and even if there are numerically these magic 3-groups of competitive servers, what if you’re in a bracket with only 2 other competitive servers? What fun is playing against the same 2 servers each week?

We currently have 21 servers in NA & 27 in Europe, AFAIK. I feel that ANet wasn’t thinking there would be such disparity between server point-numbers, so the matches would be more competitive. I feel they wanted the system to “even out”. Hell they’re even practically BEGGING people to leave over-pop servers to bolster WvW numbers on lower servers.

They built a game mode in a game that is supposed to cater to all different play styles, but the mode highly rewards the ‘hardcore’ over others. Suggestions I’ve seen are “L2P noob”, “maybe WvW isn’t for _ people” and “lets change the system to make it more fair to non-hardcore players” which inherently removes the rewards that those more hardcore players receive, so they are against it.

So now we just .. well .. wait? Hope the matchmaking system turns out to work awesomely (just like the Trading Post! .. ok, sorry, had to take that shot .. it was just too easy)?

I think implementing some sort of “comeback mechanic” that would give trashed servers HOPE that they could maybe make a comeback would help solve the un-fun psychological issue while not taking away the unbalanced, unfair, no holds barred environment that W3 is.

Just something that gives a trashed server a chance to get a temporary but important buff of something – if of course they manage to complete some objective that doesn’t involve trying to break through the siege contain at their gate.

Just a thought.

These are the same arguments that DAoC had but instead of aussies it was mandarins playing and capping at night. Guess what, that got fixed when they merged the servers into clusters (and now i guess its one big cluster) and relics could be taken right back. The only real issue we had in DAoC was low population, at this time there really isn’t much of a population issue as the game is so new. The issue here is people looking at the WvW score and just not even queueing up. They are beaten before they even start. This isn’t a game issue, its a player mentality issue. So many players coming from games that hand them everything on a silver platter that when they actually have to work for something against non scripted encounters, they wont.

Before the current clustering on Yak’s Bend, we were getting our butts handed to us on every 24hr roll over. So many people just did not queue. Now that we are top dogs in this pairing, all the people sitting around LA spamming /map saying how it sucks are now out there. Most people just want the ezmode win and thats it. Look at DAoC, albs were top for so long because of the ezmode classes originally and massive population. Anet tried to do away with that with all the classes being the same, just server v server and STILL people complain that its “unbalanced”.

tarnin.1690:

These are the same arguments that DAoC had but instead of aussies it was mandarins playing and capping at night. Guess what, that got fixed when they merged the servers into clusters (and now i guess its one big cluster) and relics could be taken right back. The only real issue we had in DAoC was low population, at this time there really isn’t much of a population issue as the game is so new. The issue here is people looking at the WvW score and just not even queueing up. They are beaten before they even start. This isn’t a game issue, its a player mentality issue. So many players coming from games that hand them everything on a silver platter that when they actually have to work for something against non scripted encounters, they wont.

Before the current clustering on Yak’s Bend, we were getting our butts handed to us on every 24hr roll over. So many people just did not queue. Now that we are top dogs in this pairing, all the people sitting around LA spamming /map saying how it sucks are now out there. Most people just want the ezmode win and thats it. Look at DAoC, albs were top for so long because of the ezmode classes originally and massive population. Anet tried to do away with that with all the classes being the same, just server v server and STILL people complain that its “unbalanced”.

What is this “merged the servers into clusters” thing?

Mara Gossep.2761:

Some people say claiming that matchmaking wont fix the population problems is nothing but speculation.

Claiming that it will is exactly the same kind of speculation.

So far matchmaking hasn’t fixed anything. That is my claim. Untill proven otherwise, this is the reality of here and now. Future speculation is just speculation.

Under the current system, as long as there continues to be worlds with a night presence, and worlds without a night presence, this problem will continue to exist and these worlds are going to play each other eventually even if at the very best they miss each other for a single rotation. This is the reality of the situation whether you want to admit or not, of course there are variables within the system that could change this, but none of these would be anything reasonable or even beneficial for players to consider using, like ‘night-cappers decide to NOT play when they only facing empty forts’ etc etc.

It looks like a fish, and until you give me some extremely good reason/evidence to believe otherwise, you’re welcome to go find some as I would be most interested in having nothing to worry about. My evidence? Reading these forums is a good place to start unless they’re all just silly delusional pessimists or something.

Maybe… your entire life is speculation. Maybe it’s not worth believing anything…

Even in Balanced PvP, there are defeatist that yell “just let them win” if something goes bad.
I seen many matches come back and win or close loss after bad starts in structured pvp.
People see one bad night and stop queueing and it gets worst.
I even seen some “competitive WvW guilds” state they dont WvW on the weekends.
Well then dont complain about the map if you are not going to queue.
Look at yourselfs not at Anet to make your server more competitive.

Coming from WWII online, I seen the night crew effects on maps and it is something the playerbase has the capability to deal with.
Start your own “breakfast club” guild and recruit to fight the night caps.
WvW is 24/7 and all these high pop/full servers have the bodies to fight back just takes some leadership and organization.
it wont happen over night but it can happen if the effort is put in.

Sky.9347:

tarnin.1690:

These are the same arguments that DAoC had but instead of aussies it was mandarins playing and capping at night. Guess what, that got fixed when they merged the servers into clusters (and now i guess its one big cluster) and relics could be taken right back. The only real issue we had in DAoC was low population, at this time there really isn’t much of a population issue as the game is so new. The issue here is people looking at the WvW score and just not even queueing up. They are beaten before they even start. This isn’t a game issue, its a player mentality issue. So many players coming from games that hand them everything on a silver platter that when they actually have to work for something against non scripted encounters, they wont.

Before the current clustering on Yak’s Bend, we were getting our butts handed to us on every 24hr roll over. So many people just did not queue. Now that we are top dogs in this pairing, all the people sitting around LA spamming /map saying how it sucks are now out there. Most people just want the ezmode win and thats it. Look at DAoC, albs were top for so long because of the ezmode classes originally and massive population. Anet tried to do away with that with all the classes being the same, just server v server and STILL people complain that its “unbalanced”.

What is this “merged the servers into clusters” thing?

Once the population in the game started to drop a lot, they merged servers kinda. You would still pve in your own server (like palo or gwen) but the RvR area was combined between first 3 servers, then i think it was 5 or 6. Now its all servers RvR together.

tarnin.1690:

These are the same arguments that DAoC had but instead of aussies it was mandarins playing and capping at night. Guess what, that got fixed when they merged the servers into clusters (and now i guess its one big cluster) and relics could be taken right back. The only real issue we had in DAoC was low population, at this time there really isn’t much of a population issue as the game is so new. The issue here is people looking at the WvW score and just not even queueing up. They are beaten before they even start. This isn’t a game issue, its a player mentality issue. So many players coming from games that hand them everything on a silver platter that when they actually have to work for something against non scripted encounters, they wont.

Before the current clustering on Yak’s Bend, we were getting our butts handed to us on every 24hr roll over. So many people just did not queue. Now that we are top dogs in this pairing, all the people sitting around LA spamming /map saying how it sucks are now out there. Most people just want the ezmode win and thats it. Look at DAoC, albs were top for so long because of the ezmode classes originally and massive population. Anet tried to do away with that with all the classes being the same, just server v server and STILL people complain that its “unbalanced”.

This. They really need to just remove the scoreboard from the game. It serves no useful purpose.

If population is dictating everything then why is Eredon Terrace (medium pop during US offpeak) ranked #4 and currently kicking the tail of 2 unofficial Oceanic servers (both high pop during US offpeak). These are facts, not conjecture.

Top alliances recruited off peak guilds, they didn’t beg ANet to fix it for them. The EU situation may very well be different but there are a heap of US players with the exact same complaint as you.

You also don’t seem to understand that the ranking system will ultimately pit similar servers against each other. It may be unfair now but will auto-correct itself. All dynamic pop caps do is punish off peak players.

There’s a lot of dumb here. First, the game has 2M+ players on 50 servers, meaning 40k players per server, with WvW supporting only ~600 of those players tops. A server being medium or high pop considers the entire population of the server, and really has nothing to do with the WvW population. You can’t point at a server and say, It’s high pop therefore there are lots of WvWers, and we beat them and we are a medium pop server so we must be skilled!

The ranking system will NOT pit similar servers against each other. It will pit similarly successful servers against each other. If ET absolutely steamrolls its opponents during the day and has somewhat low population at night, and SoS absolutely steamrolls its opponents in the night and has low population in the day, both of these servers will win their match ups, and get matched up against each other. You can plainly see what kind ofkitten match up that would be – ET winning in the day and losing everything at night, only to retake it again during the day. It might even be a close match score-wise, but by no means are these servers similar. [edit: I chose unfortunate example server names, so if this situation has happened and played out differently, please don’t get hung up on that and derail your response]

gingertree.5062:

Mara Gossep.2761:

Some people say claiming that matchmaking wont fix the population problems is nothing but speculation.

Claiming that it will is exactly the same kind of speculation.

So far matchmaking hasn’t fixed anything. That is my claim. Untill proven otherwise, this is the reality of here and now. Future speculation is just speculation.

Under the current system, as long as there continues to be worlds with a night presence, and worlds without a night presence, this problem will continue to exist and these worlds are going to play each other eventually even if at the very best they miss each other for a single rotation. This is the reality of the situation whether you want to admit or not, of course there are variables within the system that could change this, but none of these would be anything reasonable or even beneficial for players to consider using, like ‘night-cappers decide to NOT play when they only facing empty forts’ etc etc.

It looks like a fish, and until you give me some extremely good reason/evidence to believe otherwise, you’re welcome to go find some as I would be most interested in having nothing to worry about. My evidence? Reading these forums is a good place to start unless they’re all just silly delusional pessimists or something.

Maybe… your entire life is speculation. Maybe it’s not worth believing anything…

Your entire post is speculation TBH. A speculation about the future is not reality. The reality is here and now, and that is it.

Mara Gossep.2761:

gingertree.5062:

Mara Gossep.2761:

Some people say claiming that matchmaking wont fix the population problems is nothing but speculation.

Claiming that it will is exactly the same kind of speculation.

So far matchmaking hasn’t fixed anything. That is my claim. Untill proven otherwise, this is the reality of here and now. Future speculation is just speculation.

Under the current system, as long as there continues to be worlds with a night presence, and worlds without a night presence, this problem will continue to exist and these worlds are going to play each other eventually even if at the very best they miss each other for a single rotation. This is the reality of the situation whether you want to admit or not, of course there are variables within the system that could change this, but none of these would be anything reasonable or even beneficial for players to consider using, like ‘night-cappers decide to NOT play when they only facing empty forts’ etc etc.

It looks like a fish, and until you give me some extremely good reason/evidence to believe otherwise, you’re welcome to go find some as I would be most interested in having nothing to worry about. My evidence? Reading these forums is a good place to start unless they’re all just silly delusional pessimists or something.

Maybe… your entire life is speculation. Maybe it’s not worth believing anything…

Your entire post is speculation TBH. A speculation about the future is not reality. The reality is here and now, and that is it.

Here, I’ll spell it out for you;
Servers in group X exists, these are night cap servers.
Servers in group Y exists, they are not night cap servers.
Server X and Y are inevitably going to play each other because rankings change, and matchups change.
Problem exists

Do you honestly believe this is speculation? This is borderline written in stone, and it blows my mind to think anyone would suggest otherwise. Please tell me why you believe this isn’t going to happen, preferably a reason that actually has some likelihood of occuring, seriously, I really am interested in knowing.

Reality? That reality exists is an assumption that every single person has to make before we can make assertions about absolutely anything, but this is everyday stuff we’re discussing, not kitten quantum physics. My face is buried in my palms. Reality check.