Guild Wars 2

GW2 can be directly compared to the way life evolves. In the beginning, there were millions of different builds. Through a process of natural selection, those builds were narrowed down. New players inherited these builds, and when a new threat arose, they either adapted the build or the build went extinct.

Where the comparison eventually falls apart is that GW2 builds have artificial rules and we can only develop a build so far. You can’t keep adding health until everyone is running around with 100k, although that would help you survive. Eventually, you’ll have a group of the best possible builds (read: meta builds.)

There is an idea called Convergent Evolution which says that lifeforms in similar situations will evolve similar traits, regardless of how or if they are related. For example, multiple species across every variety of life form from plants to insects to reptiles to mammals have independently developed venom.

QUESTION:
In a parallel universe, has the WvW evolved in to the exact meta that we currently have?

Is the current WvW meta the final evolution until the devs change the ‘rules’ (i.e. remove the condi cap, etc.) Or is where we currently are merely an australopithecus afarensis on our way to the modern kitten sapien of WvW metas?

Edit: Kitten sapien sounds adorable. Or horrifying. Can’t decide.

Hehehehehe. Got to admit Wuvolution has something catchy to it.

Your comparison with life is somewhat off, but you are right about the evolution. And this is what every game goes through. Multiple games try to break this by constant balance changes, introducing new skills, introducing new classes. Sometimes things get nerfed hard if they get used too often and other things get buffed. This is all just to keep the game dynamic. If not, the game would stagnate into a few certain builds played till boredom.

That is why sPvP and roaming have builds that are very dynamic and changing often. As small changes have more impact. But the bigger meta, often referred to as GWEN, is a different story. Small changes have less effect and are often even ignored. But every so often even that meta will budge underneath the changes. Hard to predict when tho.

I do think this game still shows some options to explore, group combinations and build synchronization that hasn’t been done yet. So I think the meta can still shake up a little and change, but the fundamentals are already in place.

To answer your question, it is hard to say. If I could give League of Legends as an example, the addition of the Asian gaming crowd did stirr up the meta a little. It weren’t big gamebreaking changes, just little tweaks they made. It was pretty ingenius actually, as they found a few small counters to the well established EU meta. Now things balanced out again and the meta is firmly in place.
But to mirror this to GW2, yes I am curious to how the addition of the Asian crowd will change the teamcomps of sPvP and GvG/raid compositions. I do not expect the meta to change much, I just want to see what the little tweaks are going to be.

In short: yes in a parallel universe, the WvW meta would have been really close to what we have now. With a few small differences here and there.

I think creationism gets to win for the very first time ever.

- Devs (God) created GW2 (Earth) on August 28, 2012.
- Humans/Sylvari/Charr/Norn/Asura (Intelligent life) appear spontaneously.
- The spontaneously created life forms begin working with the tools of their surroundings, honing their use, finding the best methods to achieve specific goals.

Creationism theory only works for fantasy worlds. chuckle

Wuvolution versus Wuvtionism, DEBATE!

Edit: changed “Tyria” to “GW2” or Wuvolution would of debunked Wuvtionism.

You can easily see how the “meta” evolves in game by watching prices of runes on TP since there is always some build which is actually OP combined with special runes and sigil sets. For example :

Strength runes from less than 1g up to 15g
Exuberance runes from 2-4g up to 6-7g and then to 9+g
Melandru runes from 3-4g up to 7-8g
Hoelbrak runes from less than 50s up to 4-5g
Divinity runes from more than 10g down to 2g
Tormenting runes from less then 2g up to 4-5g
Warrior runes from 3+g down to less then 50s
Centaur runes from almost 1g down to 2s

It probably would have started out the same given the same initial conditions. But perhaps they have different gods. Gods that recognized earlier the issues that plagued their Creation. So their meta may evolve differently.

Divine intervention is the only thing that will change the meta. WvW could use a good Flood now and again.

This isn’t evolution. This is specialization and acclimatization. Evolution implies a change in complexity and the builds aren’t any more complex just more specialized.

If a class could create a new skill that is a result of environmental changes, THAT would be evolution.

Fluffball.8307:

GW2 can be directly compared to the way life evolves. In the beginning, there were millions of different builds. Through a process of natural selection, those builds were narrowed down. New players inherited these builds, and when a new threat arose, they either adapted the build or the build went extinct.

Where the comparison eventually falls apart is that GW2 builds have artificial rules and we can only develop a build so far. You can’t keep adding health until everyone is running around with 100k, although that would help you survive. Eventually, you’ll have a group of the best possible builds (read: meta builds.)

There is an idea called Convergent Evolution which says that lifeforms in similar situations will evolve similar traits, regardless of how or if they are related. For example, multiple species across every variety of life form from plants to insects to reptiles to mammals have independently developed venom.

QUESTION:
In a parallel universe, has the WvW evolved in to the exact meta that we currently have?

Is the current WvW meta the final evolution until the devs change the ‘rules’ (i.e. remove the condi cap, etc.) Or is where we currently are merely an australopithecus afarensis on our way to the modern kitten sapien of WvW metas?

Edit: Kitten sapien sounds adorable. Or horrifying. Can’t decide.

I’ll say one thing, my friend… I don’t follow the meta.
And if you wonder, I do perfectly fine. People are so stunned about seeing builds they can’t even imagine they kitten their pants and I get to wipe them.

Straegen.2938:

This isn’t evolution. This is specialization and acclimatization. Evolution implies a change in complexity and the builds aren’t any more complex just more specialized.

If a class could create a new skill that is a result of environmental changes, THAT would be evolution.

Even the lost of a skill is evolution. Like our tailbone, for exemple. It’s a common mistake to associate evolution with an increase of complexity. Sometimes, something that used to give us an evolutionary advantage “suddenly” is not needed anymore or even becomes a liability, and that’s when natural selection steps in.

I like this post and the metaphor of Evolution aplied to the changes in the raid meta (goes for PUG zergs as well, but is way more apparent in guild raids).

You forget one discussion imho: Nature vs Nurture

Let’s assume that your theory of Wuvolution represents the Nature side in this discussion. The effect that raid leaders (because every guild has at least one) and the local theorycrafters (because every good guild has at least one of those as well) have on the meta that the guild in questions runs could be seen as the nurture aspect.

Yes, there is a standard meta that all guilds will eventually lean towards. However, it’s the subtle differences in the individual builds that might well make the difference in fights.

Competitive, hardcore (if you will), guilds will always try and find the edge. That one little thing their opponents dont have. As such, they will always seek to counter the generally accepted meta. As a result, the meta might shift without an actual balance patch. Even though this might lead to a new meta, imho, it is not the result of Wuvolution (nature), but the ability of raid leaders and theorycrafters to figure out ways to counter the adaptations of others (nurture).

However, to give my answer to your question:
Yes, in a parallel universe, the same would happen.

(If you want to know if this is the case: just compare US vs EU ; not really a parallel universe, but close enough. Same will probably hold true for China. Subtle differences in playstyle, subtle differences in meta, but general idea will be the same.)

yanniell.1236:

Even the lost of a skill is evolution. Like our tailbone, for exemple. It’s a common mistake to associate evolution with an increase of complexity. Sometimes, something that used to give us an evolutionary advantage “suddenly” is not needed anymore or even becomes a liability, and that’s when natural selection steps in.

Evolution cannot exist with complexity. Sure there are forms of evolution that reduce complexity but this would never occur if species did not mutate into a more complex form to begin with.

To my original point, neither evolution or natural selection apply or occur in GW2. Players may specialize and acclimate their builds but nothing new is developed or introduced.