fix it. No reason that a class should have so much mitigation (i.e. stealth) in it and damage burst. No way a class should be able to go into a 20 man zerg without fear of dying. Get in trouble? Go into stealth and run.
1. the act of mitigating, or lessening the force or intensity of something unpleasant, as wrath, pain, grief, or extreme circumstances
2. the act of making a condition or consequence less severe
3. the process of becoming milder, gentler, or less severe.
Thief does not have any mitigation through stealth. Thief takes just as much damage from attacks whether stealthed or not. You just don’t see the numbers because it’d give away the player’s location.
What Thief does have from stealth is deception/trickery/confusion, and I don’t mean the in game terms.
As for the 20 man zerg comment… yeah I’m sure that happens all the time. A 20 man zerg that lets a Thief get away is a 20 man zerg that doesn’t know what they’re doing or is dreadfully all spec’d and gear’d in the same unfortunate way.
I do agree that the d/p stealth build is very cheese though.
Just stand inside the black powder and reveal them when they heartseeker into you.
Uh no, heartseeker combos with the field as it is a leap, combos proc after damage, any leap/blast finisher in the powder will hit you then stealth the enemy, since it doesn’t stealth first then break it by damaging there is no reveal.
Anyway, way too many of you blindly ignore all the other aspects of wvw that aren’t punching the guy in front of you in the face.
I’ve met thieves that are not in those categories. Thieves that could take on 4 players (not uplevelled noobs), they could be uncatchable and took their opponents down 1by1. If you didin’t come across one, good for you.
fix it. No reason that a class should have so much mitigation (i.e. stealth) in it and damage burst. No way a class should be able to go into a 20 man zerg without fear of dying. Get in trouble? Go into stealth and run.
Mitigation =! Stealth
OP doesn’t know what mitigation is therefore I can’t take his thread seriously.
That’s exactly what stealth is. You no longer have targeted attacks or skills available. For some that could be the vast majority of their damage gone.
If anyone doesn’t understand mitigation, it’s you.
I’ve met thieves that are not in those categories. Thieves that could take on 4 players (not uplevelled noobs), they could be uncatchable and took their opponents down 1by1. If you didin’t come across one, good for you.
You’re pretty bad if you let those thieves take you down 1 by 1. Definately a l2p issue here.
Why are there like 2000 threads on this? And why do they all boil down to, “I saw this thief, he didn’t do anything at all to me or my group, but he turned invisible and I couldn’t see him!”
Any sufficiently advanced skill is indistinguishable from luck.
I’ve met thieves that are not in those categories. Thieves that could take on 4 players (not uplevelled noobs), they could be uncatchable and took their opponents down 1by1. If you didin’t come across one, good for you.
They must have been glass cannons, or they don’t know their class. Really, it’s not difficult to counter a Thief when you’re with other people.
Block, Stun, Immobilize, Daze, Interrupt, Fear, Knockdown, Push, or burst the Thief. CC’n the Thief rends him useless. Bursting the Thief may not kill him, but it at least forces him to stealth. If someone goes down, all other players res the downed player. The Thief won’t be able to finish the guy in time. It’s simple. If nobody in a group of 4 people can do that, I’m sorry, but they deserve to die.
I main a Ranger and I’ve never had a problem. One time I had a Thief attack me and a couple of upleveled teammates, who he killed 1 by 1. But I killed him before he even got close to killing me 1v1. It’s not rocket science.
Also, picking off players 1 by 1 isn’t just a Thief thing. I’ve done it on my Ranger and my D/D Ele in 1v2s and 1v3s.
I’ve met thieves that are not in those categories. Thieves that could take on 4 players (not uplevelled noobs), they could be uncatchable and took their opponents down 1by1. If you didin’t come across one, good for you.
They must have been glass cannons, or they don’t know their class. Really, it’s not difficult to counter a Thief when you’re with other people.
Block, Stun, Immobilize, Daze, Interrupt, Fear, Knockdown, Push, or burst the Thief. CC’n the Thief rends him useless. Bursting the Thief may not kill him, but it at least forces him to stealth. If someone goes down, all other players res the downed player. The Thief won’t be able to finish the guy in time. It’s simple. If nobody in a group of 4 people can do that, I’m sorry, but they deserve to die.
I main a Ranger and I’ve never had a problem. One time I had a Thief attack me and a couple of upleveled teammates, who he killed 1 by 1. But I killed him before he even got close to killing me 1v1. It’s not rocket science.
Also, picking off players 1 by 1 isn’t just a Thief thing. I’ve done it on my Ranger and my D/D Ele in 1v2s and 1v3s.
I play a trap ranger, with two dogs, the thief was a p/d tanky condi build and used lots of stealth. Even though I managed to stack poison, burning and 9 stacks of bleed on him, he stealthed and managed to lose all the conditions and emerged with full hp. We weren’t an organized group, and probably didn’t have lots of cc/stun/daze. Having said that, I don’t know of many other classes/builds that you need an organized small group to kill, apart from some good mesmers perhaps. Having said that, the statement that there are only average thieves and trolls is just not right IMHO.
I play a trap ranger, with two dogs, the thief was a p/d tanky condi build and used lots of stealth. Even though I managed to stack poison, burning and 9 stacks of bleed on him, he stealthed and managed to lose all the conditions and emerged with full hp. We weren’t an organized group, and probably didn’t have lots of cc/stun/daze. Having said that, I don’t know of many other classes/builds that you need an organized small group to kill, apart from some good mesmers perhaps. Having said that, the statement that there are only average thieves and trolls is just not right IMHO.
I do remember that happening when I was a lowbie Ranger. I was with two other people, and the Thief managed to take us all down. Truthfully, I had no clue what I was doing. I went down first, then the upleveled Guardian. The other Ranger who was max level took a lot longer to kill, and just barely lost the 1v1. You don’t need to be organized, really. You just need to be prepared. I understand what you’re saying, though.
And when I said “average,” I didn’t mean “of average skill level.” I just meant that they’re actual fighters. They’re there to kill you, not to fool around and troll you. To be clearer, there are serious Thieves and there are troll Thieves. The Thieves who pick people off 1 by 1 fall into the serious category.
The point of thief damage mitigation is that they can’t deal damage while they mitigate it and while they mitigate it they can’t deal damage. This is different from guardians with their constant aegis and rangers with their crazy passive regen.
Also, a thief fighting in a zerg fight is next to useless.
I play a trap ranger, with two dogs, the thief was a p/d tanky condi build and used lots of stealth. Even though I managed to stack poison, burning and 9 stacks of bleed on him, he stealthed and managed to lose all the conditions and emerged with full hp. We weren’t an organized group, and probably didn’t have lots of cc/stun/daze. Having said that, I don’t know of many other classes/builds that you need an organized small group to kill, apart from some good mesmers perhaps. Having said that, the statement that there are only average thieves and trolls is just not right IMHO.
I do remember that happening when I was a lowbie Ranger. I was with two other people, and the Thief managed to take us all down. Truthfully, I had no clue what I was doing. I went down first, then the upleveled Guardian. The other Ranger who was max level took a lot longer to kill, and just barely lost the 1v1. You don’t need to be organized, really. You just need to be prepared. I understand what you’re saying, though.
And when I said “average,” I didn’t mean “of average skill level.” I just meant that they’re actual fighters. They’re there to kill you, not to fool around and troll you. To be clearer, there are serious Thieves and there are troll Thieves. The Thieves who pick people off 1 by 1 fall into the serious category.
I do 3v1 on my p/d thief all the time. It’s not very difficult as long as none of the enemies are very burst heavy. If theres even 1 full burst rifle warrior, I’m forced to turn away. Other thieves with the op condition removal trait can also be a problem. But if they don’t bring that trait, I just pick them off first.
Also, guardians, eles, etc. who can remove conditions from allies mean that I can never actually down them, but trolling is really just as fun. When I play a thief, I just want to kitten you off. I never bother attacking dolyaks if there are no defenders around. But if there is, oh you bet it! Quess I fall to the troll thief gategory xD
I know ~6 people in real live that stopped playing months ago because of this.
Im close to it because im forced to run specific builds and specifig gear just to counter 1 single class. Against every other professions its skill that decides the outcome of the battle. Against this one its gear and build.
After countless duels in both spvp and wvw, I have to agree with this.
I would really recommend learning where your classes’ Immobilizes are, those usually cause them to be downed fairly quickly.
For a Mesmer use sword main hand and skill “3”, it sends a clone to the enemy but when you press it again (“3”) you get ported to the enemy and immobilize it.
Even better
Use #3 – F3 – #3 – #2
Even when the clone is destroyed, you can still tele to where the clone used to be before exploding (tested this in pve while leveling my slave asura my guild portal for jumping puzzles)
both of you need to L2p
Mesmer can’t use skills if thief is stealthed.
Well I would agree stealth would be op if thieves had access to regeneration, protection, stability, retaliation, confusion…
Oh wait, they don’t.
If stealth was taken away from thieves, what you would have is a class without any defensive capabilities.
And if you took stealth away and gave them most of the boons that i mentioned, and gave them a pet, then you would have a ranger…
Toning stealth down doesn’t mean completely removing it.
Look at this way – how many zerker Guardians/Eles/Engis/Rangers/Necros do you see? If these defensive buffs helped as much as stealth, they would all be running berserker gear too.
Look on the Guardian forums at the zerker build by Stunningstyles. Even he admits that it is bad for taking on multiple opponents. Yet Yishis routinely does so in zerker gear.
In other words, the fact that most Thieves are able to run zerker gear, shows that stealth is by far the best defensive mechanic (equal only to Mesmer clones and invulnerability, and coincidentally they are the only other class that routinely runs full zerker). Edit: Stealth and high mobility.
And if people argue that “well zerker Thieves explode in team fights”, guess what? Zerker everything explodes in zergs. Do you really think a zerker staff Ele stands in the middle of the hammer pain-train and absorbs everything with his ‘OP heals?’. No, they stand far away and hope not to get hit.
Well I would agree stealth would be op if thieves had access to regeneration, protection, stability, retaliation, confusion…
Oh wait, they don’t.
If stealth was taken away from thieves, what you would have is a class without any defensive capabilities.
And if you took stealth away and gave them most of the boons that i mentioned, and gave them a pet, then you would have a ranger…
Toning stealth down doesn’t mean completely removing it.
Look at this way – how many zerker Guardians/Eles/Engis/Rangers/Necros do you see? If these defensive buffs helped as much as stealth, they would all be running berserker gear too.
Look on the Guardian forums at the zerker build by Stunningstyles. Even he admits that it is bad for taking on multiple opponents. Yet Yishis routinely does so in zerker gear.
In other words, the fact that most Thieves are able to run zerker gear, shows that stealth is by far the best defensive mechanic (equal only to Mesmer clones and invulnerability, and coincidentally they are the only other class that routinely runs full zerker). Edit: Stealth and high mobility.
And if people argue that “well zerker Thieves explode in team fights”, guess what? Zerker everything explodes in zergs. Do you really think a zerker staff Ele stands in the middle of the hammer pain-train and absorbs everything with his ‘OP heals?’. No, they stand far away and hope not to get hit.
I guess to each his own. I have 8 80’s, and one of almost every class except for engi. All my characters have multiple armor sets. Now, depending on their build/gear, depends on whether or not I have an issue. Several other classes can run glass cannon as well. DD Ele, 100B warrior, Hammer warriors, even some guardian, and necro builds as well.
All classes can run zerker. Are thieves pretty efficient at it? Sure. But I could say the same for D/D ele’s. I run some defensive gear on my thief (valk armor). In the amount of time i’ve gone up against a full glass thief, I win 90% of the time, with the rare occasion of him getting the jump on me first by me kitten around and not paying attention.
1. As a guardian I tried to stop a thief running and set up a Line of Warding. The thief used Dagger Storm and was able to go through.
2. I just had a 2vs2 against two thieves. So one thief went down and just before we were finishing him off, the other thief used Shadow Refuge (or whatever it was). So both thieves got invisible, the one was revived and they were able to escape.
That’s a lot of fun, right?!
1. the description on line of warding is not clear… http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Line_of_Warding
that makes it clear that what it actually does is knock people down….so stability (given by dagger storm), nulifies it. If the thief knows your own skills better than you do, that’s good for him.
2. As a guardian you have access to aoes that could have damaged the thief…knowing exactly where the thief was while he was resing could have given you a second kill. You also have access to a pull, pulling the thief out of the refuge reveals him (and interrupts the res). Also take that same scenario and reverse it, two thieves vs 2 guardians and one of the guardians goes down. There’s a pretty good chance the second guardian could survive and get the res off too. Thieves just go about it differently.
Well I would agree stealth would be op if thieves had access to regeneration, protection, stability, retaliation, confusion…
Oh wait, they don’t.
If stealth was taken away from thieves, what you would have is a class without any defensive capabilities.
And if you took stealth away and gave them most of the boons that i mentioned, and gave them a pet, then you would have a ranger…
Actually, not to disagree with you, but thiefs have access to all of these. To give some examples, dagger storm gives stability and reflection. Combo field with a steal gives confusion. You can get passive regen from stealthing. Stealing from a Mesmer gives you every boon in the game etc etc.
Well I would agree stealth would be op if thieves had access to regeneration, protection, stability, retaliation, confusion…
Oh wait, they don’t.
If stealth was taken away from thieves, what you would have is a class without any defensive capabilities.
And if you took stealth away and gave them most of the boons that i mentioned, and gave them a pet, then you would have a ranger…
Toning stealth down doesn’t mean completely removing it.
Look at this way – how many zerker Guardians/Eles/Engis/Rangers/Necros do you see? If these defensive buffs helped as much as stealth, they would all be running berserker gear too.
Look on the Guardian forums at the zerker build by Stunningstyles. Even he admits that it is bad for taking on multiple opponents. Yet Yishis routinely does so in zerker gear.
In other words, the fact that most Thieves are able to run zerker gear, shows that stealth is by far the best defensive mechanic (equal only to Mesmer clones and invulnerability, and coincidentally they are the only other class that routinely runs full zerker). Edit: Stealth and high mobility.
And if people argue that “well zerker Thieves explode in team fights”, guess what? Zerker everything explodes in zergs. Do you really think a zerker staff Ele stands in the middle of the hammer pain-train and absorbs everything with his ‘OP heals?’. No, they stand far away and hope not to get hit.
Great post and 100% true. Every build I theory craft, or actually use, is based on trying to deal with Thieves. I would really like to use a damage build once in a while but know it would be a death sentence when a thief hit me.
Thieves have the best of both worlds. Can go GC and still be safe because of stealth.
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
Not sure if anyone noticed, but in the next patch shadowstep no longer breaks stun. This is a critical element to my build. I now looking to run withdraw instead of hide in shadows, because I need a stun break. It may only be a 3 second stealth reduction, but its a start.
Well I would agree stealth would be op if thieves had access to regeneration, protection, stability, retaliation, confusion…
Oh wait, they don’t.
If stealth was taken away from thieves, what you would have is a class without any defensive capabilities.
And if you took stealth away and gave them most of the boons that i mentioned, and gave them a pet, then you would have a ranger…
Actually, not to disagree with you, but thiefs have access to all of these. To give some examples, dagger storm gives stability and reflection. Combo field with a steal gives confusion. You can get passive regen from stealthing. Stealing from a Mesmer gives you every boon in the game etc etc.
The problem is, most classes have these worked in with their utilities, a thief does not. Regen in stealth? Sure, anything is better then nothing, but the regen you get from the trait is lower then the regen most classes get in their utilities. Depending on what class your up against, you can steal something good like a necro fear, or something terrible like an ele’s ice shard.
Daggerstorm does give stability, but does not give it to you outside of using the skill. The reflection is pretty weak aspect of the elite as most classes can switch to melee and your easily set up to be killed. Unless I’m doing group play, I never run daggerstorm, and I get a good laugh at the enemy thief that daggerstorms while I dig my dagger in his back.
TL;DR: The examples you gave aren’t great examples of having buffs active in regular thief play. More then likely, you won’t be able to get most of the boons that i mentioned.
Edit: Although, if your lucky and steal from a ranger, doing two heartseekers in the tree water field is always nice :]
Well I would agree stealth would be op if thieves had access to regeneration, protection, stability, retaliation, confusion…
Oh wait, they don’t.
If stealth was taken away from thieves, what you would have is a class without any defensive capabilities.
And if you took stealth away and gave them most of the boons that i mentioned, and gave them a pet, then you would have a ranger…
Toning stealth down doesn’t mean completely removing it.
Look at this way – how many zerker Guardians/Eles/Engis/Rangers/Necros do you see? If these defensive buffs helped as much as stealth, they would all be running berserker gear too.
Look on the Guardian forums at the zerker build by Stunningstyles. Even he admits that it is bad for taking on multiple opponents. Yet Yishis routinely does so in zerker gear.
In other words, the fact that most Thieves are able to run zerker gear, shows that stealth is by far the best defensive mechanic (equal only to Mesmer clones and invulnerability, and coincidentally they are the only other class that routinely runs full zerker). Edit: Stealth and high mobility.
And if people argue that “well zerker Thieves explode in team fights”, guess what? Zerker everything explodes in zergs. Do you really think a zerker staff Ele stands in the middle of the hammer pain-train and absorbs everything with his ‘OP heals?’. No, they stand far away and hope not to get hit.
I still see a lot of people running zerker gear. It has it’s time and place. I’ve been wrecked by warriors and 100 lulz, shatter mesmers, nade spam engi’s, and the like. All classes have viable glass builds, but thats just it, they’re glass. Thief is no exception to anyone else. Thieves are easily shattered and broken.
The reason why glass thieves can get away in zerker gear is not wholly to do with stealth, but that a lot of people still don’t know how to deal with stealth. Once people learn the concept, it’s easy pickings from there.
My favorite glass class to roam with after my thief is my necro, and i win the majority of my fights on my glass thieves.
My next character that I plan on going glass with for roaming is my D/D ele. I’ve seen glass ele’s just tear though thieves and bunkers in a 1v1 situation.
I’ve played as a thief just for the sole purpose of learning how they work so i could kill them better with other classes. And those of you saying to play a thief so you can learn how to counter them…bull. Playing as a thief you learn how to counter the counters that people came up with to deal with the thief. yes you learn how to deal with some of their BS. but, dont you think thieves have done this too? Played as other classes to know how they work, how they would TRY to counter the thief? I’m by no means a good thief, but even i figured this out. I really don’t enjoy the class at all and its been resigned to being my bank mule at this point. I think the whole stealth mechanic is lame and really cheap. I’d prefer they removed stealth all together and implimented some sort of new defensive mechanics for thieves like more dodging to avoid damage. I’d find it much more enjoyable to play as if i could make it more like a ninja leaping around the place and avoiding getting hit altogether rather than hiding in the shadows like some cowardly thug to shank people when their backs are turned. They ARE overpowered. Any thief player who says they aren’t is in denial and just doesnt want their big shiny easy button taken away.
Are you talking about the D/P build with the 5,2,2,2,5,2,2,2,2 spam that allows them to keep retealthing, stabbing you for massive damage while all the while making it impossible to hit them during the fraction of the second you can see them? Yeah before i actually tried it myself, i thought they were actually good and thats why i was having a hard time with them. Nope, its stupidly easy to do and yeah it does need a nerf. Heres a perfect example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ Yeah takes real skill to push 2 buttons over and over again. and its not like it requires strict timing or anything. make a thief and test it yourself. effective against 95% of the people you’ll ever run into. as long as you dont fight more than 5 people at once you’ll win with little effort.
Are you talking about the D/P build with the 5,2,2,2,5,2,2,2,2 spam that allows them to keep retealthing, stabbing you for massive damage while all the while making it impossible to hit them during the fraction of the second you can see them? Yeah before i actually tried it myself, i thought they were actually good and thats why i was having a hard time with them. Nope, its stupidly easy to do and yeah it does need a nerf. Heres a perfect example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ Yeah takes real skill to push 2 buttons over and over again. and its not like it requires strict timing or anything. make a thief and test it yourself. effective against 95% of the people you’ll ever run into. as long as you dont fight more than 5 people at once you’ll win with little effort.
Translation: “I haven’t actually played a thief but I watched a video and have concluded that the need to be nerfed some more.”
Any sufficiently advanced skill is indistinguishable from luck.
Are you talking about the D/P build with the 5,2,2,2,5,2,2,2,2 spam that allows them to keep retealthing, stabbing you for massive damage while all the while making it impossible to hit them during the fraction of the second you can see them? Yeah before i actually tried it myself, i thought they were actually good and thats why i was having a hard time with them. Nope, its stupidly easy to do and yeah it does need a nerf. Heres a perfect example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ Yeah takes real skill to push 2 buttons over and over again. and its not like it requires strict timing or anything. make a thief and test it yourself. effective against 95% of the people you’ll ever run into. as long as you dont fight more than 5 people at once you’ll win with little effort.
Translation: “I haven’t actually played a thief but I watched a video and have concluded that the need to be nerfed some more.”
You saw the words “before I actually tried it myself”, right?
thieves don’t bother me too much, my issue with them is the second they get to half health they just stealth or teleport away. then five min later they pop up next to you to start the process over again. boring
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I said before I actually tried doing that for myself I used to think that thieves who did that sort of thing were actually good and that it was actually complicated to do all that bs they pull. that’s what I meant. but after I tried it for myself and saw how simple it is to do that, then I realized how ridiculous it actually is. How is that difficult to understand? I thought I explained it pretty well. Stop trying to twist my words around to make it seem like thieves aren’t OP, because they are.
Are you talking about the D/P build with the 5,2,2,2,5,2,2,2,2 spam that allows them to keep retealthing, stabbing you for massive damage while all the while making it impossible to hit them during the fraction of the second you can see them? Yeah before i actually tried it myself, i thought they were actually good and thats why i was having a hard time with them. Nope, its stupidly easy to do and yeah it does need a nerf. Heres a perfect example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ Yeah takes real skill to push 2 buttons over and over again. and its not like it requires strict timing or anything. make a thief and test it yourself. effective against 95% of the people you’ll ever run into. as long as you dont fight more than 5 people at once you’ll win with little effort.
Id agree that D/P needs a nerf and Id also agree thakittens lame. I think they need to change the way the debuff works with the combo (or how it doesn’t).
I have no problem beating a thief on my other 80’s. They aren’t build specifically to fight thieves. They aren’t bunkers either. They just have ways of dealing with burst damage (which all classes can do). I just know how thieves play and I’m not running total glass.
Mind blowing that people still cannot figure out how to handle thieves.
I’ve killed like 10 thieves this week WHILE THEY WERE STEALTHED.
No matter how smart and deceptive the thief is, there is one thing you know. If he is dagger mainhand he is going to try to get behind you. Despite this so many people just stand there waiting for it when you stealth. Nothing is more frustrating as a thief than someone who moves unpredictably and makes it hard/impossible to land that backstab.
fix it. No reason that a class should have so much mitigation (i.e. stealth) in it and damage burst. No way a class should be able to go into a 20 man zerg without fear of dying. Get in trouble? Go into stealth and run.
I’m pretty sure that is exactly what a thief should be able to do. You can run into a 20 man zerg, you can annoy them, maybe even down 1 person. But you won’t be able to kill anyone and if you don’t run away very very fast you might die yourself. Seems balanced to me.
Exactly, I can not agree more with you.
Best,
Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows
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Are you talking about the D/P build with the 5,2,2,2,5,2,2,2,2 spam that allows them to keep retealthing, stabbing you for massive damage while all the while making it impossible to hit them during the fraction of the second you can see them? Yeah before i actually tried it myself, i thought they were actually good and thats why i was having a hard time with them. Nope, its stupidly easy to do and yeah it does need a nerf. Heres a perfect example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ Yeah takes real skill to push 2 buttons over and over again. and its not like it requires strict timing or anything. make a thief and test it yourself. effective against 95% of the people you’ll ever run into. as long as you dont fight more than 5 people at once you’ll win with little effort.
Makes me want to vomit a bit after watching that video. Like you, apparently I have been giving Thieves too much credit for their “skill”
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
I main an eng (using mostly pvt) and I think OP has a point.
I recall the time it took 6 of us 10 min to catch one of those perma-stealth thieves. In the end, he still got away (kept shadow stepping).
In my experience, once a perma-stealth thief is detected, I am dead, regardless of what I do or where I may try to run. The most annoying skill is the one that immobilizes, since 1 sec of mobility means you are going to get an entire skill chain dumped on you. The occasions I do get the better of them, they just stealth and run off (an eng is bad at chasing down ppl), then come back when they have recovered to full hps. Throwing aoe around does not seem to help either (I use FT).
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fix it. No reason that a class should have so much mitigation (i.e. stealth) in it and damage burst. No way a class should be able to go into a 20 man zerg without fear of dying. Get in trouble? Go into stealth and run.
You need to stop this type of behavior in the forums. I am a PW Thief who does NOT rely on Stealth to get away. I am tired of players accusing Thief’s being OP “OMG Stealth” when I can run around and take out players without even using stealth.
Read my signature from one of the developers. Stealth is not the problem, Daggers are the problem because they do way too much damage. Learn the enemy first.
fix it. No reason that a class should have so much mitigation (i.e. stealth) in it and damage burst. No way a class should be able to go into a 20 man zerg without fear of dying. Get in trouble? Go into stealth and run.
You need to stop this type of behavior in the forums. I am a PW Thief who does NOT rely on Stealth to get away. I am tired of players accusing Thief’s being OP “OMG Stealth” when I can run around and take out players without even using stealth.
Read my signature from one of the developers. Stealth is not the problem, Daggers are the problem because they do way too much damage. Learn the enemy first.
No, stealth is the problem. The reason daggers do so much damage is because you can commit to an offensive build because you have stealth. Pretty sure a GC Warrior can do more damage than a Thief with daggers. The problem for the Warrior is he is very vulnerable….and that’s the trade off. He kills fast, but dies fast. A simple ying and yang concept.
Thief doesn’t pay the price because of a GC build. He can take a bite out of someone, and if he sees his damage isn’t going to get the job done quick enough he just stealths and moves on. = no downside for GC build
…and that is great you don’t use stealth ( WvW or pvp ?) You would be the first Thief I have encountered that doesn’t use stealth.
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
Thief doesn’t pay the price because of a GC build. He can take a bite out of someone, and if he sees his damage isn’t going to get the job done quick enough he just stealths and moves on. = no downside for GC build
lulz right here.
Any sufficiently advanced skill is indistinguishable from luck.
I beat 90% of thieves I run into on my Guardian (a small % of this would include those that run away/call in the support) however the very good ones still cause me some problems. That’s working as intended imo, better players beating lesser players. I have high DPS and an abundance of retaliation though so the glass cannon types are laughable for the way I run my Guardian.
However, I think the main problem with thieves above all else is their ability to dis-engage the fight whenever the hell they want and come back with pretty much full health. Their high mobility makes them very hard to successfully keep pinned down so they re-engage the fight back at full health while you’re still being beaten on for the second they’re in your range.
This is coming from the perspective of a guardian though whose range DPS is lols and general mobility is pretty weak.
~ The Server I Play On Is Better Than The Server You Play On ~
- Kudzu, Dreamer, Frostfang, Eternity, Flameseeker Prophecies ~
~Nevermore, HOPE, Moot, Incinerator, Meteorlogicus, Howler ~
2. I just had a 2vs2 against two thieves. So one thief went down and just before we were finishing him off, the other thief used Shadow Refuge (or whatever it was). So both thieves got invisible, the one was revived and they were able to escape.
That’s a lot of fun, right?!
Shadow refuge? Shield skill 5 knocks them out 90% of the time.
~ The Server I Play On Is Better Than The Server You Play On ~
- Kudzu, Dreamer, Frostfang, Eternity, Flameseeker Prophecies ~
~Nevermore, HOPE, Moot, Incinerator, Meteorlogicus, Howler ~
I beat 90% of thieves I run into on my Guardian (a small % of this would include those that run away/call in the support) however the very good ones still cause me some problems. That’s working as intended imo, better players beating lesser players. I have high DPS and an abundance of retaliation though so the glass cannon types are laughable for the way I run my Guardian.
However, I think the main problem with thieves above all else is their ability to dis-engage the fight whenever the hell they want and come back with pretty much full health. Their high mobility makes them very hard to successfully keep pinned down so they re-engage the fight back at full health while you’re still being beaten on for the second they’re in your range.
This is coming from the perspective of a guardian though whose range DPS is lols and general mobility is pretty weak.
I don’t know about you but they would have to be really terrible Thief players to die to any Guardian
How to escape from a Guardian
1) Press Shadowstep
2) If Guardian somehow catches up to you, use Shadow Return.
3) If he still is on your tail, stealth and run somewhere.
Simple and fail proof. I don’t even use Shadowstep, and can count on one hand the number of times I’ve died to a solo Guardian. Obviously I don’t always win, but dying is just out of the question.
I’m not going to write a long post about why roaming Thieves are broken, but it really should be obvious from the massive number of Thieves that something is wrong.
. I never bother attacking dolyaks if there are no defenders around. But if there is, oh you bet it! Quess I fall to the troll thief gategory xD