Guild Wars 2

Thief is a cheesy profession, as it was intended to be. We’re squishy, and we are the best at being that. We’re supposed to be the hated one, the one you’ll never see coming, but you’ll definitely feel. If we fail we have the tools to gtfo, if we fail that then a thief is a free loot bag. We hit hard, if we fail we disengage, that’s how it was designed.

I’ve been literally one-shotted by warriors using eviscerate or kill shot (the latter one being a ranged high damage attack), do you see me complaining?

Some facts from the GW2 wiki:

Kill Shot

• lvl 3 adrenaline damage: 1256 (damage multiplier of 3,25)
• Range: 1500
• Combo finisher: Physical Projectile

Eviscerate

• lvl 3 adrenaline dagame: 1008 (damage multiplier of 3)
• Range: 300
• Combo finisher: Leap

Backstab

• Damage: 806 (damage multiplier of 2,4)
• Range: 130
• Stealth attack

As you can see, a thief with full berserker gear is not going to hit nearly as hard as a warrior in the same gear – the difference? Warrior can be immune to conditions for 8 seconds, immune to all damage from 5 seconds and they have twice as much health and toughness as a thief – this without traits and food.

Warrior base stats with heavy lvl 80 ascended armor:

• Armor: 2187
• Health: 18372

Thief base stats with medium lvl 80 ascended armor:

• Armor: 2034
• Health: 10805

See the differense? Note that I chose warrior because it’s the only profession in the game with an attack with higher damage multiplier than the thiefs backstab. Why do thief has lower stats, because we can stealth and use deception to survive – a warrior was made to breathe you in your face as he crushes it. I would fear the zerker warrior more than the thief. We have literally no immunity skills, as several other more dangerous professions have…

Rezzet.3614:

Prysin.8542:

there is 8 ways to counter a thief’s backstab;
1 – Aegis
2 – Fear
3 – Traps/Marks
4 – Evades/stunbreakers
5 – Block
6 – stealth
7 – wildly swinging a GS
8 – count to 3 and dodge it like anyone else

1- ignored and removed by thief before backstab lands on you
2-goodluck fearing what you cant target
3-unless you’re standing on trap/mark thief will just shadowstep and troll you not to mention only immob and fear traps would be the only life savers
4-cant react to what you aint seen /unless you’re a tank yoour stun breaker wont save you from the backstab and finishing touch
7-auto attacking blindly isnt a counter plus swinging a gs if anything will help thief aim for your back.

1) Guards have multiple Aegis
2) Fear needs no targetting. Besides, the thief is right next to you.
3) Yea, you just answered no.2, and got your answer to killing a thief
4) The number of times I backstabbed a thief in stealth is ridiculous. By now, everyone should know where a thief will be standing once he goes into stealth using CnD
7) Yea, the thief will know where your back is facing, but doesn’t it also tell you where the thief is? You just swing once to lead the thief, and prep for the hit to come

Artaz.3819:

1. You can trait Steal to be 1500 range with Long Reach – I run this with my thief when glass cannon backstab because you need it (you don’t want someone interrupting the key sequence combo – see below) so the whole ‘see the Thief coming’ is a not a true counter.

Thief in the screenshot got Mug so its much likely he runs the cookie cutter 10/30/30 build, so no Long Reach otherwise he would either miss Hidden Killer or Shadow Rejuv which I would consider a really bad build for WvW.

2. You can activate (push the button for) Cloak and Dagger and before the actual swing connects, then quickly activate your F1 for Steal in the middle of the activation. Because of this there is virtually no way for you to counter insta-Steal and Stealth (along with things like Bountiful Theft or better Thrill of the Crime to make the next hit far more devastating – but I prefer Hidden Killer so you can run a good full power/Valkyrie/Berserker set and still land auto-crit backstab for even harder damage)

Its not that hard to dodge that combo if you see it coming. Thief first presses CnD, then Steal. As soon as you see CnD (flipping dagger animation) you have to press dodge. I know for sure its possible because I see skilled roamers every do who manage to dodge my initial combo. I also pull it off by myself. Guess what? Even as a thief you have to deal with other thieves yourself.

3. The next step is Backstab and you only have to be in the behind 180-degree arc behind the target which is easy to do 95% of the time (lag works both ways).

Even if you eat the whole initial combo (steal -> cnd -> backstab) all you have to do is pull your out of jail card (elixir s, endure pain, block, invis, blink away, then heal up).

Most people in WvW tend to panic as soon as they get big damage in a short time. You have to practice which exact buttons to press in those situations.

Another mistake is that most people just try to run away from thieves instead of putting damage pressure on the thief. Thats in epic fail.

Most people in WvW just stick to the zerg. They are completely clueless in 1vs1 situations. Thieves on the other side are the supposed roamer class.

Geiir.7603:

Thief is a cheesy profession, as it was intended to be. We’re squishy, and we are the best at being that. We’re supposed to be the hated one, the one you’ll never see coming, but you’ll definitely feel. If we fail we have the tools to gtfo, if we fail that then a thief is a free loot bag. We hit hard, if we fail we disengage, that’s how it was designed.

I’ve been literally one-shotted by warriors using eviscerate or kill shot (the latter one being a ranged high damage attack), do you see me complaining?

Some facts from the GW2 wiki:

Kill Shot

• lvl 3 adrenaline damage: 1256 (damage multiplier of 3,25)
• Range: 1500
• Combo finisher: Physical Projectile

Eviscerate

• lvl 3 adrenaline dagame: 1008 (damage multiplier of 3)
• Range: 300
• Combo finisher: Leap

Backstab

• Damage: 806 (damage multiplier of 2,4)
• Range: 130
• Stealth attack

As you can see, a thief with full berserker gear is not going to hit nearly as hard as a warrior in the same gear – the difference? Warrior can be immune to conditions for 8 seconds, immune to all damage from 5 seconds and they have twice as much health and toughness as a thief – this without traits and food.

Warrior base stats with heavy lvl 80 ascended armor:

• Armor: 2187
• Health: 18372

Thief base stats with medium lvl 80 ascended armor:

• Armor: 2034
• Health: 10805

See the differense? Note that I chose warrior because it’s the only profession in the game with an attack with higher damage multiplier than the thiefs backstab. Why do thief has lower stats, because we can stealth and use deception to survive – a warrior was made to breathe you in your face as he crushes it. I would fear the zerker warrior more than the thief. We have literally no immunity skills, as several other more dangerous professions have…

You do realize the flaw of what you were trying to say right?

I mean, backstab is next to spammable. All the warrior abilities you listed require adrenaline hence not exactly spammable.

Don’t get me wrong, I too think Warriors are broken beyond repair, but so are conditions, Mesmers that you can’t attack while they kill you and thieves that reset the fight as many times as they want until you either run out of cooldowns or you finally get lucky cuz they kittened up.

As I said, I don’t complain about it. I just put it out there for people to see that backstab is far from the hardest hitting ability in the game. Anyhow, warriors can trait to have a redicolously low cool down on weapon swap and burst skills, so they’re nearly spammable. I do also think that the thief should get revealed if the attack is blocked. Backstab can be “spammed” every 3-4 seconds, but it’s hard to land and very easy to evade. See a thief stealth and stand still, if so then you deserve to be killed :p don’t get me wrong, because I like to fight warriors, and I usually walk away as the winner (non-stealth build btw), so I couldn’t care. Just put it out there for the community to see

Arlette.9684:

I mean, backstab is next to spammable. All the warrior abilities you listed require adrenaline hence not exactly spammable.

Backstab requires stealth. Stealth requires a lot of initiative and is counterable. CnD costs 50% ini. If you dodge CnD the thief lost 50% ini and cannot backstab. So nop, Backstab is far from spamable.

Warrior burst abilities on the other hand are indeed spamable. Adrenaline gain is super easy compared to what it was before. You gain adrenaline when you hit someone. You gain adrenaline when you get hit by someone. You gain adrenaline via Berserker Stance or Signet of Fury. You are able to gain adrenaline through shouts… My GS/LB warrior gains 100% adrenaline so fast, its unbelievable. Often the LB burst is still on cooldown when adrenaline reaches 100%. lol

Geiir.7603:

As I said, I don’t complain about it. I just put it out there for people to see that backstab is far from the hardest hitting ability in the game.

My thief got hit for 15k damage from churning earth during a zerg fight lately. I never saw a thief backstab me for more than 7k. Nuff said.

Geiir.7603:

Thief is a cheesy profession, as it was intended to be. We’re squishy, and we are the best at being that. We’re supposed to be the hated one, the one you’ll never see coming, but you’ll definitely feel. If we fail we have the tools to gtfo, if we fail that then a thief is a free loot bag. We hit hard, if we fail we disengage, that’s how it was designed.

I’ve been literally one-shotted by warriors using eviscerate or kill shot (the latter one being a ranged high damage attack), do you see me complaining?

Some facts from the GW2 wiki:

Kill Shot

• lvl 3 adrenaline damage: 1256 (damage multiplier of 3,25)
• Range: 1500
• Combo finisher: Physical Projectile

Eviscerate

• lvl 3 adrenaline dagame: 1008 (damage multiplier of 3)
• Range: 300
• Combo finisher: Leap

Backstab

• Damage: 806 (damage multiplier of 2,4)
• Range: 130
• Stealth attack

As you can see, a thief with full berserker gear is not going to hit nearly as hard as a warrior in the same gear – the difference? Warrior can be immune to conditions for 8 seconds, immune to all damage from 5 seconds and they have twice as much health and toughness as a thief – this without traits and food.

Warrior base stats with heavy lvl 80 ascended armor:

• Armor: 2187
• Health: 18372

Thief base stats with medium lvl 80 ascended armor:

• Armor: 2034
• Health: 10805

See the differense? Note that I chose warrior because it’s the only profession in the game with an attack with higher damage multiplier than the thiefs backstab. Why do thief has lower stats, because we can stealth and use deception to survive – a warrior was made to breathe you in your face as he crushes it. I would fear the zerker warrior more than the thief. We have literally no immunity skills, as several other more dangerous professions have…

+1
I wish more people understood this.

I have both warrior and a thief as my most played characters.

My warrior has 27k health 2600 armour, 90% crit damage and can smash out a 12k eviserate, triple chop crits for about 5k, and 100blades totals over 14k.
My thief has 19k health, 2200 armour, 100% crit damage, needs to go into melee range, land cloak and dagger and then he can attempt a backstab on a moving target and hope the target doesn’t dodge or turn around and get the backstab in the face for less damage.

The Thief is not as powerful as everybody makes out. Sure there are a few great players that can dance in and out of stealth, dropping 9k backstabs, but it generally requires less than 50ms latency and very sharp skills.

All classes have OP potential, some easier to achieve than others. I still consider thieves to be one of the weakest professions.

Elthurien.8356:

Geiir.7603:

Thief is a cheesy profession, as it was intended to be. We’re squishy, and we are the best at being that. We’re supposed to be the hated one, the one you’ll never see coming, but you’ll definitely feel. If we fail we have the tools to gtfo, if we fail that then a thief is a free loot bag. We hit hard, if we fail we disengage, that’s how it was designed.

I’ve been literally one-shotted by warriors using eviscerate or kill shot (the latter one being a ranged high damage attack), do you see me complaining?

Some facts from the GW2 wiki:

Kill Shot

• lvl 3 adrenaline damage: 1256 (damage multiplier of 3,25)
• Range: 1500
• Combo finisher: Physical Projectile

Eviscerate

• lvl 3 adrenaline dagame: 1008 (damage multiplier of 3)
• Range: 300
• Combo finisher: Leap

Backstab

• Damage: 806 (damage multiplier of 2,4)
• Range: 130
• Stealth attack

As you can see, a thief with full berserker gear is not going to hit nearly as hard as a warrior in the same gear – the difference? Warrior can be immune to conditions for 8 seconds, immune to all damage from 5 seconds and they have twice as much health and toughness as a thief – this without traits and food.

Warrior base stats with heavy lvl 80 ascended armor:

• Armor: 2187
• Health: 18372

Thief base stats with medium lvl 80 ascended armor:

• Armor: 2034
• Health: 10805

See the differense? Note that I chose warrior because it’s the only profession in the game with an attack with higher damage multiplier than the thiefs backstab. Why do thief has lower stats, because we can stealth and use deception to survive – a warrior was made to breathe you in your face as he crushes it. I would fear the zerker warrior more than the thief. We have literally no immunity skills, as several other more dangerous professions have…

All classes have OP potential, some easier to achieve than others. I still consider thieves to be one of the weakest professions.

Go try dps guardian in solo/duo roaming then come tell me what’s weak.

Arlette.9684:

Elthurien.8356:

Geiir.7603:

Thief is a cheesy profession, as it was intended to be. We’re squishy, and we are the best at being that. We’re supposed to be the hated one, the one you’ll never see coming, but you’ll definitely feel. If we fail we have the tools to gtfo, if we fail that then a thief is a free loot bag. We hit hard, if we fail we disengage, that’s how it was designed.

I’ve been literally one-shotted by warriors using eviscerate or kill shot (the latter one being a ranged high damage attack), do you see me complaining?

Some facts from the GW2 wiki:

Kill Shot

• lvl 3 adrenaline damage: 1256 (damage multiplier of 3,25)
• Range: 1500
• Combo finisher: Physical Projectile

Eviscerate

• lvl 3 adrenaline dagame: 1008 (damage multiplier of 3)
• Range: 300
• Combo finisher: Leap

Backstab

• Damage: 806 (damage multiplier of 2,4)
• Range: 130
• Stealth attack

As you can see, a thief with full berserker gear is not going to hit nearly as hard as a warrior in the same gear – the difference? Warrior can be immune to conditions for 8 seconds, immune to all damage from 5 seconds and they have twice as much health and toughness as a thief – this without traits and food.

Warrior base stats with heavy lvl 80 ascended armor:

• Armor: 2187
• Health: 18372

Thief base stats with medium lvl 80 ascended armor:

• Armor: 2034
• Health: 10805

See the differense? Note that I chose warrior because it’s the only profession in the game with an attack with higher damage multiplier than the thiefs backstab. Why do thief has lower stats, because we can stealth and use deception to survive – a warrior was made to breathe you in your face as he crushes it. I would fear the zerker warrior more than the thief. We have literally no immunity skills, as several other more dangerous professions have…

All classes have OP potential, some easier to achieve than others. I still consider thieves to be one of the weakest professions.

Go try dps guardian in solo/duo roaming then come tell me what’s weak.

You mean when a DPS guard drops you in 3 seconds? A roaming guardian always gives me pause, because either its a healway guard that I cannot kill, or its a DPS guard who can kill me in the initial engage. You don’t tend to see bad DPS guard roamers.

Every class can be good. Some are just, on average, better than others.

Geiir.7603:

Thief is a cheesy profession, as it was intended to be. We’re squishy, and we are the best at being that. We’re supposed to be the hated one, the one you’ll never see coming, but you’ll definitely feel. If we fail we have the tools to gtfo, if we fail that then a thief is a free loot bag. We hit hard, if we fail we disengage, that’s how it was designed.

I’ve been literally one-shotted by warriors using eviscerate or kill shot (the latter one being a ranged high damage attack), do you see me complaining?

Some facts from the GW2 wiki:

Kill Shot

• lvl 3 adrenaline damage: 1256 (damage multiplier of 3,25)
• Range: 1500
• Combo finisher: Physical Projectile

Eviscerate

• lvl 3 adrenaline dagame: 1008 (damage multiplier of 3)
• Range: 300
• Combo finisher: Leap

Backstab

• Damage: 806 (damage multiplier of 2,4)
• Range: 130
• Stealth attack

As you can see, a thief with full berserker gear is not going to hit nearly as hard as a warrior in the same gear – the difference? Warrior can be immune to conditions for 8 seconds, immune to all damage from 5 seconds and they have twice as much health and toughness as a thief – this without traits and food.

Warrior base stats with heavy lvl 80 ascended armor:

• Armor: 2187
• Health: 18372

Thief base stats with medium lvl 80 ascended armor:

• Armor: 2034
• Health: 10805

See the differense? Note that I chose warrior because it’s the only profession in the game with an attack with higher damage multiplier than the thiefs backstab. Why do thief has lower stats, because we can stealth and use deception to survive – a warrior was made to breathe you in your face as he crushes it. I would fear the zerker warrior more than the thief. We have literally no immunity skills, as several other more dangerous professions have…

Man really nice . . .

I will add the fact that the people forget roles and they want all to do all.

Too many QQ in this forums . . . instead of asking for advices.

SoLeciTO.3490:

Man really nice . . .

I will add the fact that the people forget roles and they want all to do all.

Too many QQ in this forums . . . instead of asking for advices.

Of course they want to do all, that was one of ANet’s selling points, no more holy trinity, you can play however you want with whatever you want. While in reality, the game has gotten to a point where for some classes you’re forced to play a specific build, have THIS gear or you just get crushed.

Hard to watch you all defend this bad class designs in the game. The game has flaws. Stop defending them and instead help get Anet to fix them.

Knighthonor.4061:

Hard to watch you all defend this bad class designs in the game. The game has flaws. Stop defending them and instead help get Anet to fix them.

We don’t all agree on what those flaws are.

Elthurien.8356:

The Thief is not as powerful as everybody makes out. Sure there are a few great players that can dance in and out of stealth, dropping 9k backstabs, but it generally requires less than 50ms latency and very sharp skills.

All classes have OP potential, some easier to achieve than others. I still consider thieves to be one of the weakest professions.

Agreed. While those perfect kill moments appear, the opposite happens quite frequently. As soon as AoE starts firing, being a melee thief becomes very difficult.

My warrior pretty much spams Earthshaker or any other Burst skill and has fantastic condition management, great control and excellent sustained damage all in a super durable package. A necro with SoS or a well timed Corrupt Boon melts players. Shatter mesmers… youch! Grenade/Bomb engis… well played ones have few counters. The list goes on and on.

The problem is less experienced players get croaked by thieves and complain. More experienced players know how to manage a thief and know they have a good chance at dropping a thief.

You’re really comparing zerker gear with siege damage?

After versing quite a few thieves in sPvP, I can tend to manage them as a staff ele in WvW. It’s really not that hard.